Author Topic: Horizon Black Arrow 2  (Read 12087 times)

Offline Jimmy Murdok

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #20 on: 06/11/2017 12:09 PM »
Name loks good...and comes with a big responsibility  ;)

A couple that came into my mind and keep the heritage
Black Lance
Black Javelin

Wish you good luck! Keep us posted

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #21 on: 06/11/2017 01:02 PM »
Both Lance and Javelin have already been used for military missiles. Might want to avoid those associations.

Offline Jimmy Murdok

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #22 on: 06/11/2017 06:23 PM »
Both Lance and Javelin have already been used for military missiles. Might want to avoid those associations.

And Arrow too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile), all the names are based on weapons and have been used by other weapons  ::). You can find negative connotation of almost everything.

Lance reminds to Sir Lancelot, has the shape of a rocket and is symilar to an arrow. Brings originality as it's a new name, but keeps the dinasty of the original rocket "starting a dinasty". All of it very British  ;D

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #23 on: 06/11/2017 07:05 PM »
True, although in that case the non-military use pre-dates the military one.

Offline ChamberPressure

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #24 on: 06/12/2017 11:38 AM »
P.S. Horizon news coming next week!

Oooooh, my interest is piqued.

Maybe people on NSF would like to try come up with a better name?   I won't promise we'll change, but if there's a really excellent suggestion out there that captures our team's interest, it would certainly be a shame to miss it!

I quite like BLACK ARROW 2. Have you considered a name for the engine powering it as of yet? Perhaps continuing with the heritage theme by going with some variation of "Gamma", like the original Bristol Siddeley Gamma engine?

Or how about "Olympus", as a kind of shoutout to the Rolls-Royce Olympus engines that powered the Avro Vulcan and Concorde.

Offline kraisee

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #25 on: 06/13/2017 04:24 AM »
The news is coming soon, but in the meantime, don't limit yourselves to the 'colour' code style, you are allowed to be more adventurous :D

Might I also suggest trying a few names with a possible nautical flavour?

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline gin455res

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #26 on: 06/19/2017 03:37 PM »
The news is coming soon, but in the meantime, don't limit yourselves to the 'colour' code style, you are allowed to be more adventurous :D

Might I also suggest trying a few names with a possible nautical flavour?

Ross.

SS Great Britain / with Brunel Engines?

What engine cycle is Horizon going with?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #27 on: 06/20/2017 06:54 AM »
What engine cycle is Horizon going with?

As this is their first rocket, I would expect it to be gas generator.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline wilbobaggins

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #28 on: 06/21/2017 12:04 PM »
Personally, I am really excited about having UK launch capability (saves me moving to the US to get a job at SpaceX  :P)

I always liked the name HMS Pickle from Trafalgar so just pickle I guess. Maybe a name for a spacecraft rather than a rocket factory though.

As for Investment hopefully, the government might lead the way
The Queen's speech today was very promising:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40354695
While Brexit may have dissuaded some investors, hopefully, the government feeling guilty (/political motivations) may provide the needed investment and perhaps more than they would have any.

Horizon has a great team and I am sure they will do great things

Offline kraisee

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #29 on: 06/23/2017 06:14 AM »
News is on hold for a bit, sorry.   We want to get a few more things shipshape and Bristol fashion first!   Good things happening though.   You'll still hear it here first!

gin455res; currently planning GG for the first stage.   Simple pressure fed for the upper.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #30 on: 06/23/2017 10:51 AM »
Noooo, not again a delay in news coming out.
« Last Edit: 06/23/2017 04:58 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline kraisee

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #31 on: 07/19/2017 12:14 AM »
Horizon Space Technologies Ltd is officially announcing our British launch system has secured funding.

The press release has begun to go out to news agencies, and I've already sent a copy to Chris Bergin.

Watch this space for more info!

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Online ringsider

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #32 on: 07/19/2017 05:44 AM »
Horizon Space Technologies Ltd is officially announcing our British launch system has secured funding.

The press release has begun to go out to news agencies, and I've already sent a copy to Chris Bergin.

Watch this space for more info!

Ross.

How much money did you raise?  Is it seed money or something more substantial?
« Last Edit: 07/19/2017 07:14 AM by ringsider »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #33 on: 07/19/2017 06:32 AM »
That's great news Ross! Looking forward to reading all the details.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Star One

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #34 on: 07/19/2017 07:26 AM »
Good news indeed. Just waiting to hear the details.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #35 on: 07/19/2017 09:17 AM »
Here is performance goals from website. More twice Electron payload, about same as  LauncherOne. Ideal for smallsats and Moon Express MX2 lander, maybe bit to big for cubesats.

The first version of Black Arrow 2 is being designed to lift at least 500 kg to 200×200 km 0° equatorial orbit, or 350 kg to 600×600 km 98° sun-synchronous.

A logical upgrade path exists to increase performance above 1,000 kg to LEO at some point in the future.
« Last Edit: 07/19/2017 09:19 AM by TrevorMonty »

Offline ChamberPressure

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #36 on: 07/19/2017 11:05 AM »
Horizon Space Technologies Ltd is officially announcing our British launch system has secured funding.

The press release has begun to go out to news agencies, and I've already sent a copy to Chris Bergin.

Watch this space for more info!

Ross.

That's fantastic news! ;D

gin455res; currently planning GG for the first stage.   Simple pressure fed for the upper.

Ross.

How about for engine cooling? Are you going with ablative materials to start and shifting to regenerative cooling later on, or jumping into regenerative cooling from the get go? 

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #37 on: 07/19/2017 02:36 PM »
Here's a press release dated beginning of last week. Is there a follow-up release due today about further (non-seed) funding?

Quote
The UK’s Space Launch Company - Launching Rockets from the UK Within 3 Years

Press Release From: Horizon Space Technologies
Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017

Many of us who have dreamed of travelling into space will have been thrilled by the announcement of the new Space Industry Bill which was included in the recent Queen’s Speech to Parliament.  The bill’s stated purpose is to make the UK the most attractive place in Europe for commercial space and will give companies the ability to launch rockets from the UK.  The UK’s space industry is worth an estimated £13.7billion and the government hopes to significantly increase the UK’s share of global space turnover from 6.5% to 10% by 2030.

Taking advantage of these regulatory changes is UK start-up company Horizon Space Technologies Limited, formed by Ross Tierney.  Tierney, a British born rocket designer, led the NASA team to replace the aging space shuttle programme in the wake of the Columbia shuttle disaster in 2003.  Horizon’s growing team of talented British engineers began 12 months ago to develop a range of space launchers in the UK.

“This is a very exciting time for Horizon and for British space” says Tierney “Our mission is to make space affordable by drastically reducing the inherent costs and the time taken to develop our launchers.  Starting without the legacy issues of other space companies, we are developing our rockets using the best talent that the UK has to offer.  In particular, we are using a rapid development process that originates from the UK’s world-leading Formula 1 industry; this will allow Horizon to drive costs significantly lower”.

Horizon has won a technology development grant from the UK Space Agency which has helped to kick off its initial development work.  The company plans an initial space port within the UK but also plans to launch its rockets off specialist ships which can be positioned around the world “The ability to launch from almost anywhere gives us advantages in terms of performance and flexibility to place our rockets into the required orbit” says Tierney “it also gives us the unique ability to launch our clients’ satellites from their own region”.

The UK is one of the world’s most important satellite manufacturers and initially the company has its eye on the small satellite launch market which is estimated to grow significantly over the next few years as the world’s hunger for mobile data increases and older satellites become redundant.  However the company’s ambitions go far beyond satellites “We will use our initial launches to test our systems – but our ultimate goal is manned space flight” says Tierney “We intend to open up space in much the same way as the first railways opened up the western United States to growth and commercial activity”.

The company has received seed capital from private investors and is well along the way to securing the funds it needs to fulfil its long-term ambitions. “Space travel is a complex business to develop” says Tierney “but our goal is to reduce costs and be able to compete favourably in the new commercial space environment that has been evolving over the last decade.  This will result in a profitable business going forward, bringing increased export services and huge rewards to the UK.  The investors coming on board at this early stage see this potential and want a piece of what will be a very lucrative industry”.

The company will soon be creating many100’s of high quality, science, engineering and manufacturing jobs on a number of sites within the UK.  Advice has also been found from the Welsh Government, with Wales being one of the areas where the company is planning to locate its rocket engine testing facilities, docks and manufacturing.  “With Brexit around the corner, the UK needs to develop its own technologies and independent capabilities more than ever.  We see Horizon as fulfilling an important part of that need and we believe that a home grown space flight capability will encourage pride in our nation and will bring many benefits - economic, geo-political and educational, to name a few” says Tierney “The future is just over the Horizon”.

About Horizon Space Technologies Limited

Horizon is a British based and British owned company embarking on a development program to build and launch a series of rocket powered space launchers manufactured in the UK.  It is headed by some of the world’s leading experts in the field of rocket, aerospace and motor racing engineering.  Their mission is to make space affordable and accessible.

Press Contact

Name: Paul Painter, Chief Commercial Officer
Mobile: +44 (0) 790 8850163
Email: paul.painter@horizonsas.com
Web: www.horizonsas.com

http://spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=51215
« Last Edit: 07/19/2017 02:37 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online ringsider

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #38 on: 07/19/2017 05:59 PM »
"Horizon has won a technology development grant from the UK Space Agency which has helped to kick off its initial development work."

This was in 2016 I think, mentioned further up in this thread?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38987.msg1656997#msg1656997

Or is it something new? If new it is good news.

"Tierney, a British born rocket designer, led the NASA team to replace the aging space shuttle programme in the wake of the Columbia shuttle disaster in 2003"

Is this accurate? My understanding was DIRECT was an ad hoc group working voluntarily outside NASA? Or have I got that wrong? It's what was mentioned here:-

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/05/direct-rebuttal-nasa-analysis-jupiter-launch-vehicle/

"The team claims to be comprised of eight public representatives and 62 NASA and contractor engineers – who work on the project on their own time."
« Last Edit: 07/19/2017 09:12 PM by ringsider »

Offline gin455res

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Re: Horizon Black Arrow 2
« Reply #39 on: 07/23/2017 07:32 PM »
Thanks for the information on the engine cycle (gas generator).


The bulk density of methane lox is quite low compared to other hydrocarbons/lox combinations. This means that more energy is required for pumping.


I'm curious how


methane with a C:H ratio of 1:4,

   ethane with a C:H ratio of 1:3, and

propane with a C:H ratio of  1:2.667


compare in terms of the propellant-mass-fraction lost to pumping.


How does the variation in average molecular weight of the gas-generator products from different fuels effect turbine inlet temperatures and masses lost to pumping?


Are methane/lox gas-generators more fuel efficient than ethane/lox gas-generators?


And if so, enough to make up for the poorer density of methane lox?   

« Last Edit: 07/23/2017 07:32 PM by gin455res »

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