Author Topic: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System  (Read 118976 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #120 on: 10/06/2015 05:35 pm »
Just because we've not reported on here for a while, and SNC promoted their CRS2 ambitions via congratulating ULA on the 100th launch....

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/10/dream-chaser-fighting-her-place-space/
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1381
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 312
  • Likes Given: 921
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #121 on: 10/06/2015 05:44 pm »
I am happy to see this, SNC still has a chance to win the CRS-2 contract. It was reported in the Wall Street Journal (Thanks to D. Messier of Parabolic Arc) that LM was dropped from the CRS-2 competition , leaving SNC  and the Dream Chaser still in play.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/lockheed-martin-eliminated-from-nasas-cargo-competition-1443725840.

Online catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11050
  • Enthusiast since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 8582
  • Likes Given: 7675
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #122 on: 10/07/2015 08:48 pm »
SNC's Dream Chaser® Cargo System: A Transportation System to Deliver Cargo to the ISS for NASA

Published on Oct 7, 2015
This animated video represents Sierra Nevada Corporation’s (SNC) Dream Chaser® Cargo System mission. The Dream Chaser Cargo System is an innovative complete cargo transportation system capable of transporting pressurized and unpressurized cargo to and from low-Earth orbit destinations such as the International Space Station. This system is designed to fulfill NASA’s current Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) and other fully autonomous missions.

The uncrewed Dream Chaser spacecraft launches inside a standard 5m fairing, transporting pressurized and unpressurized cargo concurrently. Further advantageous capabilities include cargo module disposal, low-g, gentle runway landing return of cargo and sensitive science payloads with immediate access, all attributes that are unique to the reusable, lifting-body Dream Chaser spacecraft.

Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1098
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 565
  • Likes Given: 238
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #123 on: 10/07/2015 11:11 pm »
Interesting, I wonder why the whole TPS is black except for two white stripes on top.

Offline ChrisWilson68

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5266
  • Sunnyvale, CA
  • Liked: 4992
  • Likes Given: 6459
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #124 on: 10/07/2015 11:15 pm »
Interesting, I wonder why the whole TPS is black except for two white stripes on top.

It looks to me like the white stripes are in the areas with the least need for TPS.  Those areas are probably fine without anything special beyond the normal skin.

Offline Kansan52

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Hutchinson, KS
  • Liked: 570
  • Likes Given: 539
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #125 on: 10/07/2015 11:33 pm »
At one time, SNC put a down payment on an Atlas V launch. Anyone know if SNC is still planning on using that launch?

Offline vt_hokie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
  • Hazlet, NJ
  • Liked: 118
  • Likes Given: 435
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #126 on: 10/08/2015 01:04 am »
Wonder if that nose first attitude during reentry is accurate!

Offline J-V

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 101
  • Liked: 30
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #127 on: 10/08/2015 06:20 am »
That looked like Atlas V 552. Is there a big difference in price compared to eg. 422 used by Starliner?

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13982
  • UK
  • Liked: 3968
  • Likes Given: 220
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #128 on: 10/08/2015 06:34 am »

At one time, SNC put a down payment on an Atlas V launch. Anyone know if SNC is still planning on using that launch?

I imagine that launch may now be dependent on the outcome of this competition.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #129 on: 10/08/2015 06:33 pm »
This from ISPCS conference.

Good point Mark.

Jeff Foust (@jeff_foust) tweeted at 4:33 AM on Fri, Oct 09, 2015:
Q: what changes would you like to see in the CRS program? Sirangelo: no delay in the CRS-2 award. #ispcs
(https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/652144792231501824)

Offline Patchouli

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4490
  • Liked: 253
  • Likes Given: 457
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #130 on: 10/08/2015 10:01 pm »
I wonder if the cargo module can do extended missions like the Shenzhou OM after the primary mission is over?
Such as carry experiments that do not require recovery or deploy cube sats.
« Last Edit: 10/08/2015 10:01 pm by Patchouli »

Offline rcoppola

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • USA
  • Liked: 1967
  • Likes Given: 968
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #131 on: 10/08/2015 10:41 pm »
Looks like the cargo module can also be used for waste disposal. So pressurized and unpressurized up, waste disposal and pressurized down. All with fast access to timely experiments.

Gotta say, that's a nice, versatile option. My only hope is that they can properly compete on price since there are no more development funds. They need to compete against 2 other service providers that do not need as much development time and/or investment as DCC will. I guess the trick will be to amortize the dev costs over enough of the contact to stay competitive on the per-mission (or $/up & down mass) costs. I can only see this happening by being able to have a seriously reusable DCC with little refurbishment costs.
Sail the oceans of space and set foot upon new lands!
http://www.stormsurgemedia.com

Offline Lars-J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6809
  • California
  • Liked: 8485
  • Likes Given: 5384
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #132 on: 10/09/2015 05:22 pm »
Gotta say, that's a nice, versatile option. My only hope is that they can properly compete on price since there are no more development funds. They need to compete against 2 other service providers that do not need as much development time and/or investment as DCC will. I guess the trick will be to amortize the dev costs over enough of the contact to stay competitive on the per-mission (or $/up & down mass) costs. I can only see this happening by being able to have a seriously reusable DCC with little refurbishment costs.

Even then it would be questionable, since a significant part of the vehicle is an expendable cargo module that not only is a external cargo carrier and contains power/radiator systems, but also contains a human rated pressurized compartment that is necessary to access the DC itself.

Offline A_M_Swallow

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8906
  • South coast of England
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #133 on: 10/10/2015 10:30 am »
{snip}
Even then it would be questionable, since a significant part of the vehicle is an expendable cargo module that not only is a external cargo carrier and contains power/radiator systems, but also contains a human rated pressurized compartment that is necessary to access the DC itself.

That suggests a nice spin-off product, an air lock.

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1098
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 565
  • Likes Given: 238
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #134 on: 10/10/2015 03:04 pm »
{snip}
Even then it would be questionable, since a significant part of the vehicle is an expendable cargo module that not only is a external cargo carrier and contains power/radiator systems, but also contains a human rated pressurized compartment that is necessary to access the DC itself.

That suggests a nice spin-off product, an air lock.
So you're thinking something along these lines, perhaps?

Offline A_M_Swallow

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8906
  • South coast of England
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #135 on: 10/22/2015 10:38 pm »
{snip}
Even then it would be questionable, since a significant part of the vehicle is an expendable cargo module that not only is a external cargo carrier and contains power/radiator systems, but also contains a human rated pressurized compartment that is necessary to access the DC itself.

That suggests a nice spin-off product, an air lock.
So you're thinking something along these lines, perhaps?


I do not know what was on the back of the Hermes but yes.

The air lock module could permit space walks from the Dream Chaser or from a spacestation it is left at.

Offline Comga

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6460
  • Liked: 4567
  • Likes Given: 5105
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #136 on: 10/23/2015 04:53 am »
I wonder if the cargo module can do extended missions like the Shenzhou OM after the primary mission is over?
Such as carry experiments that do not require recovery or deploy cube sats.

There does not appear to be any engines or motors capable of attitude control or reentry targeting on the cargo module.  (edit: If there were, it would be needed for controlling and deobiting the DC.)
There is no obvious comm system either, and its likely a lot of the power system would be inside the DC. 
So, no, the cargo module could not do extended missions.
« Last Edit: 10/23/2015 04:56 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline arachnitect

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1553
  • Liked: 501
  • Likes Given: 759
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #137 on: 11/07/2015 08:11 pm »
Because I'm revisiting my CRS-2 predictions, I'm curious what people think Dream Chaser Cargo would cost?

-Assume 2 flights per year (12 flights total).
-Assume that SNC is trying to make a profit (they recoup CRS2 development costs within 12 missions).
-Assume that DC will fly on Atlas 552, as shown in PR material (>$200M per flight, could easily be $250M).
-Don't forget to account for the cost of the disposable cargo module on each flight.

I've got a range of estimates, but I'm curious what others come up with. If they can break a certain threshold, I believe their chances of being selected improve dramatically.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #138 on: 11/07/2015 10:46 pm »
ULA are trying to get Atlas 401 price down to $100-$110M so say <$160M for 552 especially with new lower cost OrbitalATK SRBs. The Vulcan should reduce that again as it will need less SRBs.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2015 10:47 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline ChrisWilson68

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5266
  • Sunnyvale, CA
  • Liked: 4992
  • Likes Given: 6459
Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #139 on: 11/07/2015 10:52 pm »
ULA are trying to get Atlas 401 price down to $100-$110M so say <$160M for 552 especially with new lower cost OrbitalATK SRBs. The Vulcan should reduce that again as it will need less SRBs.

SNC can't bid based on assuming price reductions in the launch vehicle that might or might not ever come true.  They have to bid based on the prices they could negotiate ULA to commit to before the bids were due.  Even if SNC wanted to bid lower and risk bankrupting their company if LV prices didn't go down, their bid would be rejected for being financially too risky.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0