At some point you've gotta accept a little additional complication in order to move forward and gain desirable long-term capability. Shortsighted, risk averse thinking that would have us flying expendable tin cans ad infinitum is NASA's biggest problem imo, and why we so desperately need the commercial upstarts to disrupt the status quo.
have us flying expendable tin cans ad infinitum
And what is wrong with that? What says wings are the right way and not capsules? Maybe the original premise was wrong and the correction is to go back to capsules.
SPARKS, Nev. (March 24, 2015) – Sierra Nevada Corporation’s (SNC) Space Systems and the Houston Airport System (HAS) announce a new follow-on agreement to utilize Ellington Airport’s Spaceport as a future landing site for SNC’s Uncrewed Dream Chaser® spacecraft - SNC’s solution for NASA’s Cargo Resupply needs and other critical space operations. Full release- http://www.sncorp.com/AboutUs/NewsDetails/973
Quote from: vt_hokie on 03/23/2015 08:42 pm have us flying expendable tin cans ad infinitum And what is wrong with that? What says wings are the right way and not capsules? Maybe the original premise was wrong and the correction is to go back to capsules.
Quote from: arachnitect on 03/21/2015 01:46 amQuote from: Burninate on 03/21/2015 01:12 amQuote from: joek on 03/20/2015 02:41 amQuote from: adrianwyard on 03/19/2015 02:56 pmWhile the CRS-2 RFP talks about docking (IDA) and berthing (CBM) being options, it also says that they need a CBM solution in the mix because of its width. See Answer 20 here: https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/160022-OTHER-003-001.pdf so that implies that at least SpaceX or Orbital ATK will get chosen.CRS-2 RFP calls for (among other things) pressurized cargo up/down per-flight range of: M01 bag 0-10; M02 bag 10-TBP; M03 bag 0-6. How those bags fit with respect to NDS, Cygnus mini-CBM and CBM is shown in the attached figure below.edit: add ISPR; edit: add NDS 120cm; add NDS petals; add M03 bag fit through NDS.Hold on a minute...Are those petals really the bounding box? Or are there petals on both androgynous sides of the port, creating an inscribed circle using six petals? I'm not certain.Edit: Attached is an image Wikipedia uses for the NDS.If I understand correctly, I think what Joek is showing is a situation where the adapter on station has fixed petals, but the VV petals are removed, so the cargo can be threaded through one triad. Is that possible?Yes, that was the intent... if one set of petals is removed, the potential size increases. I do not know if it is possible to remove either set of petals.
Quote from: Burninate on 03/21/2015 01:12 amQuote from: joek on 03/20/2015 02:41 amQuote from: adrianwyard on 03/19/2015 02:56 pmWhile the CRS-2 RFP talks about docking (IDA) and berthing (CBM) being options, it also says that they need a CBM solution in the mix because of its width. See Answer 20 here: https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/160022-OTHER-003-001.pdf so that implies that at least SpaceX or Orbital ATK will get chosen.CRS-2 RFP calls for (among other things) pressurized cargo up/down per-flight range of: M01 bag 0-10; M02 bag 10-TBP; M03 bag 0-6. How those bags fit with respect to NDS, Cygnus mini-CBM and CBM is shown in the attached figure below.edit: add ISPR; edit: add NDS 120cm; add NDS petals; add M03 bag fit through NDS.Hold on a minute...Are those petals really the bounding box? Or are there petals on both androgynous sides of the port, creating an inscribed circle using six petals? I'm not certain.Edit: Attached is an image Wikipedia uses for the NDS.If I understand correctly, I think what Joek is showing is a situation where the adapter on station has fixed petals, but the VV petals are removed, so the cargo can be threaded through one triad. Is that possible?
Quote from: joek on 03/20/2015 02:41 amQuote from: adrianwyard on 03/19/2015 02:56 pmWhile the CRS-2 RFP talks about docking (IDA) and berthing (CBM) being options, it also says that they need a CBM solution in the mix because of its width. See Answer 20 here: https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/160022-OTHER-003-001.pdf so that implies that at least SpaceX or Orbital ATK will get chosen.CRS-2 RFP calls for (among other things) pressurized cargo up/down per-flight range of: M01 bag 0-10; M02 bag 10-TBP; M03 bag 0-6. How those bags fit with respect to NDS, Cygnus mini-CBM and CBM is shown in the attached figure below.edit: add ISPR; edit: add NDS 120cm; add NDS petals; add M03 bag fit through NDS.Hold on a minute...Are those petals really the bounding box? Or are there petals on both androgynous sides of the port, creating an inscribed circle using six petals? I'm not certain.Edit: Attached is an image Wikipedia uses for the NDS.
Quote from: adrianwyard on 03/19/2015 02:56 pmWhile the CRS-2 RFP talks about docking (IDA) and berthing (CBM) being options, it also says that they need a CBM solution in the mix because of its width. See Answer 20 here: https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/160022-OTHER-003-001.pdf so that implies that at least SpaceX or Orbital ATK will get chosen.CRS-2 RFP calls for (among other things) pressurized cargo up/down per-flight range of: M01 bag 0-10; M02 bag 10-TBP; M03 bag 0-6. How those bags fit with respect to NDS, Cygnus mini-CBM and CBM is shown in the attached figure below.edit: add ISPR; edit: add NDS 120cm; add NDS petals; add M03 bag fit through NDS.
While the CRS-2 RFP talks about docking (IDA) and berthing (CBM) being options, it also says that they need a CBM solution in the mix because of its width. See Answer 20 here: https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/160022-OTHER-003-001.pdf so that implies that at least SpaceX or Orbital ATK will get chosen.
Quote from: Burninate on 03/21/2015 02:06 amQuote from: manboy on 07/19/2014 01:55 amQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/18/2014 04:56 amQuote from: baldusi on 07/17/2014 05:46 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/16/2014 06:11 pmCan the NDS act as the space side of an air lock?It may need a door.What's the inner diameter? AIUI, astros prefer a big door with little chance of entangling.NDS - The NASA Docking System has a passage for crew and cargo with a diameter of 685 millimetres (27.0 in), which can be increased to 813 millimetres (32.0 in) by removing the petals of the capture mechanism after mating. IMHO An outer door will probably have the petals present.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Docking_SystemThat's outdated info. The passthrough diameter is now 800 mm (31.5 in), the petals are no longer removable.Is it the case that 3 petals in a mated pair are no longer removeable, or 6 petals in a mated pair are no longer removeable?None.
Quote from: manboy on 07/19/2014 01:55 amQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/18/2014 04:56 amQuote from: baldusi on 07/17/2014 05:46 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/16/2014 06:11 pmCan the NDS act as the space side of an air lock?It may need a door.What's the inner diameter? AIUI, astros prefer a big door with little chance of entangling.NDS - The NASA Docking System has a passage for crew and cargo with a diameter of 685 millimetres (27.0 in), which can be increased to 813 millimetres (32.0 in) by removing the petals of the capture mechanism after mating. IMHO An outer door will probably have the petals present.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Docking_SystemThat's outdated info. The passthrough diameter is now 800 mm (31.5 in), the petals are no longer removable.Is it the case that 3 petals in a mated pair are no longer removeable, or 6 petals in a mated pair are no longer removeable?
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/18/2014 04:56 amQuote from: baldusi on 07/17/2014 05:46 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/16/2014 06:11 pmCan the NDS act as the space side of an air lock?It may need a door.What's the inner diameter? AIUI, astros prefer a big door with little chance of entangling.NDS - The NASA Docking System has a passage for crew and cargo with a diameter of 685 millimetres (27.0 in), which can be increased to 813 millimetres (32.0 in) by removing the petals of the capture mechanism after mating. IMHO An outer door will probably have the petals present.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Docking_SystemThat's outdated info. The passthrough diameter is now 800 mm (31.5 in), the petals are no longer removable.
Quote from: baldusi on 07/17/2014 05:46 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/16/2014 06:11 pmCan the NDS act as the space side of an air lock?It may need a door.What's the inner diameter? AIUI, astros prefer a big door with little chance of entangling.NDS - The NASA Docking System has a passage for crew and cargo with a diameter of 685 millimetres (27.0 in), which can be increased to 813 millimetres (32.0 in) by removing the petals of the capture mechanism after mating. IMHO An outer door will probably have the petals present.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Docking_System
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 07/16/2014 06:11 pmCan the NDS act as the space side of an air lock?It may need a door.What's the inner diameter? AIUI, astros prefer a big door with little chance of entangling.
Can the NDS act as the space side of an air lock?It may need a door.
Based on these screen caps from SNC's concept videos of DC-Cargo and Crew, I'd say that DC-Cargo is perplexingly smaller.While both use the IDA for docking, the DC-Cargo is smaller to fit into a fairing with its service module, rather than being large enough to sit atop a ULA rocket, with a direct IDA port at stern, as shown in the crew video.That also suggests that the rear of the DC-Cargo itself is either smaller than the IDA or wholly incompatible due to the size difference, else it would just dock directly to the PMA as its larger sister would have done.Edit: But perspective is a bear. It might be larger than DC-crew.
Quote from: arachnitect on 03/21/2015 01:46 amQuote from: Burninate on 03/21/2015 01:12 amAre those petals really the bounding box? Or are there petals on both androgynous sides of the port, creating an inscribed circle using six petals? I'm not certain.If I understand correctly, I think what Joek is showing is a situation where the adapter on station has fixed petals, but the VV petals are removed, so the cargo can be threaded through one triad. Is that possible?Yes, that was the intent... if one set of petals is removed, the potential size increases. I do not know if it is possible to remove either set of petals.
Quote from: Burninate on 03/21/2015 01:12 amAre those petals really the bounding box? Or are there petals on both androgynous sides of the port, creating an inscribed circle using six petals? I'm not certain.If I understand correctly, I think what Joek is showing is a situation where the adapter on station has fixed petals, but the VV petals are removed, so the cargo can be threaded through one triad. Is that possible?
Are those petals really the bounding box? Or are there petals on both androgynous sides of the port, creating an inscribed circle using six petals? I'm not certain.
SNC’s Dream Chaser Crewed Space System Concept of OperationsPublished on Jul 8, 2015
Quote from: catdlr on 07/08/2015 11:00 pmSNC’s Dream Chaser Crewed Space System Concept of OperationsPublished on Jul 8, 2015Odd, same video that's been around for months.
In the videos DC cargo flies with 3 solids while the crew DC has none.is that settled then ?