Author Topic: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System  (Read 57836 times)

Offline baldusi

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #180 on: 11/16/2015 01:54 PM »
I find it interesting that Boeing and LM seem to have priced themselves out of the CRS-2 competition.
When it comes to cargo transport, the incumbents are SpaceX and OrbitalATK. And both failures have been LV, nothing wrong with the already certified and proven VV and ops. That's why I still expect SPX 3/2, ORB 1/2 and SNC 1/2 missions per year. If SNC was aggressive enough on price (which it appears they were).

Online rayleighscatter

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #181 on: 11/16/2015 09:25 PM »
I realized something else today that gives SNC a little more leeway in their price. It's a woman-owned business. Considering this is federal procurement that does give them a little extra leg up, as well as more leniency in price.

Online joek

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #182 on: 11/17/2015 02:24 AM »
I realized something else today that gives SNC a little more leeway in their price. It's a woman-owned business. Considering this is federal procurement that does give them a little extra leg up, as well as more leniency in price.

SNC will not receive consideration for being a woman-owned business, in particular with respect to price.  The price is evaluated as bid.  Nor can SNC subcontract with itself to raise its Small Business Utilization score, which in any case is 5% of the Mission Suitability score, and Mission Suitability is less important that Price.

Offline Star One

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #183 on: 11/17/2015 07:03 AM »

I realized something else today that gives SNC a little more leeway in their price. It's a woman-owned business. Considering this is federal procurement that does give them a little extra leg up, as well as more leniency in price.

Why should any consideration of the gender of the owner come into this?

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #184 on: 11/17/2015 09:38 AM »

I realized something else today that gives SNC a little more leeway in their price. It's a woman-owned business. Considering this is federal procurement that does give them a little extra leg up, as well as more leniency in price.

Why should any consideration of the gender of the owner come into this?

The US Government has a weird definition of anti-discrimination, the laws are deliberately pro women and pro blacks. They have quotas for contracts.

Online rpapo

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #185 on: 11/17/2015 10:22 AM »
The US Government has a weird definition of anti-discrimination, the laws are deliberately pro women and pro blacks. They have quotas for contracts.
The policy is called "Affirmative Action", and has had both good and bad results over the past fifty years.  It is also very off-topic for this thread.
An Apollo fanboy . . . fifty years ago.

Offline yg1968

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #186 on: 11/17/2015 01:33 PM »
Agree, but NASA has already dinged for being overly optimistic about transportation costs (cargo and crew).  There is no money for DC development other than SNC's pockets (presumably amortized over the CRS-2 contract) or what could be paid under CRS-2--which must come under ISS "initial" or "base" integration--and which is added to the evaluation price.  This is largely going to hinge on NASA's evaluation of DC's risk and how aggressive SNC is in pricing...

SNC has received about the same money under commercial crew ($312.5M) than Orbital ($288M) and SpaceX ($396M) did under COTS. If SNC gets selected for CRS2, the NASA funding of $396M for DC will have been money well spent.

I am hoping that NASA will pick three companies. I imagine that NASA will ask all three companies what their price would be if the awards are split between three or between two companies and will then make a decision based on their answers. 
« Last Edit: 11/17/2015 01:47 PM by yg1968 »

Online joek

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #187 on: 11/17/2015 09:26 PM »
SNC has received about the same money under commercial crew ($312.5M) than Orbital ($288M) and SpaceX ($396M) did under COTS. If SNC gets selected for CRS2, the NASA funding of $396M for DC will have been money well spent.

Agree, and that is the only thing that makes me think DC has a chance.  Assuming DC can effectively lift at least 3750kg pressurized upmass--which requires ~13m3 usable pressurized cargo volume--then the evaluation will be based on the price for 2 missions/year x 7 years = 14 missions total.  So figure 14 missions for SNC to amortize/recover DDT&E and ISS integration costs.

Offline yg1968

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #188 on: 11/28/2015 03:40 AM »
Here is an interesting presentation on cargo DC.


Offline yg1968

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #189 on: 11/28/2015 03:41 AM »
One thing that was mentionned is that cargo DC can fly on FH (but not on a F9, it seems).

Offline Star One

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Re: CRS-2: Dream Chaser Cargo System
« Reply #190 on: 07/18/2017 07:04 PM »
This article seems relevant to this thread.

Sierra Nevada’s Dream Chaser on the move in California

Quote
An atmospheric test model of Sierra Nevada’s Dream Chaser spacecraft, a cargo carrier for the International Space Station that will take off on top of an Atlas 5 rocket and land on a runway, is undergoing braking and steering checks in California ahead of a flight test later this year, the company said Monday.

The full-scale Dream Chaser is pulled behind a tow vehicle for the ground tests now underway, reaching speeds fast enough to gauge the craft’s braking performance and guidance, navigation and control systems.

Rolling on two main landing gear wheels and a nose skid, the Dream Chaser traveled down a runway Monday in Sierra Nevada’s latest tow test at Edwards Air Force Base, which is co-located with NASA’s Armstrong Flight Research Center.

Once cut free from its tow vehicle, the Dream Chaser slowed to a stop, allowing engineers to gather data on the craft’s brakes, steering system, and guidance, navigation and control sensors that will line the spaceplane up for landing, according to Eric Cain, a Sierra Nevada engineer who described Monday’s test on the company’s Twitter account.

More tests are planned in the coming months, including additional tow tests and a “captive carry” flight with the Dream Chaser suspended under a helicopter.

Quote
Sierra Nevada says the 2013 flight was successful until that point, and Dream Chaser’s autopilot landing system steered the craft toward the runway for a touchdown on the centerline.

Engineers blamed the mishap on a landing gear borrowed from a U.S. Air Force F-5E jet. Future Dream Chaser cargo missions to the space station will fly with a different landing gear, and the refurbished spaceship now in California features a gear more advanced then the one at fault in 2013.

“It’s much more close to the (configuration) of the orbital vehicle now, with flight software,” Sirangelo told Spaceflight Now earlier this year. “It’s fully autonomous, so it will use flight software that we’ll go to orbit with. All the control surfaces, and all the data gathering is all electronic.

“The computer systems are now the orbital version of the computer systems that we will manage with, so it’s structurally similar, but virtually the whole inside of the vehicle has been updated and changed.”

Meanwhile, technicians are building the space-rated version of the Dream Chaser that will fly into orbit on a cargo run to the space station as soon as 2019.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/07/17/sierra-nevadas-dream-chaser-on-the-move-in-california/

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