Author Topic: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant  (Read 14631 times)

Online Chris Bergin

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/10/snc-reveal-dc4science-dream-chaser-variant/

Attached in the full size image they released.

EDIT:
added hi-res version

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #1 on: 10/24/2014 02:26 PM »
I don't want to seem overly pessimistic, but is there really a market for this? DragonLab has yet to line up any customers, as far as we are aware; USAF have their own spaceplane. What am I missing?
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Offline bad_astra

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #2 on: 10/24/2014 02:30 PM »
When life hands you lemons,  you make DC4Science. Reminds me of the old Industrial Space Facility idea, except with the ability of rapid experiment return. I wonder how it could compete against NanoRacks, though.
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Online RonM

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #3 on: 10/24/2014 02:31 PM »
I don't want to seem overly pessimistic, but is there really a market for this? DragonLab has yet to line up any customers, as far as we are aware; USAF have their own spaceplane. What am I missing?

Excellent question. Maybe JAXA and ESA would be interested.

Offline Nindalf

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #4 on: 10/24/2014 02:49 PM »
I think it's important that two providers are preparing offerings.  That gives potential customers some security about availability and price.  It makes it easier to justify the early investments required to explore the option thoroughly.

It's also an incremental development path toward crewed flight for SNC without winning a contract for missions to the ISS.  They can hopefully get paid something for their test flights this way, even if it's just to ease the development burden, rather than make the flights actually profitable.

Together with things like the Bigelow modules and the Intuitive Machines sample return vehicles, there's getting to be quite a convincing lineup of products and services preparing to go to market for people who want to do extended zero-G experiments in pressurized space.

Offline Oberon_Command

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #5 on: 10/24/2014 02:51 PM »
Quote
“Customers will maintain scientific intellectual property rights, free from Federal Research Laboratory regulations that govern the International Space Station.”

To me this seems like an important point. A lot of companies won't invest in research unless they can keep control of the resulting IP.

Online Eerie

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #6 on: 10/24/2014 05:28 PM »
How is this different from DragonLab? Besides the fact that DragonLab is essentially Dragon cargo, which is already flies?

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #7 on: 10/24/2014 07:19 PM »
How is this different from DragonLab? Besides the fact that DragonLab is essentially Dragon cargo, which is already flies?


Lower g recovery, immediate access to experiments after return, and not having to pay for a new spacecraft every time you launch are a few benefits over the cargo Dragon, might change after commercial crew though.

The X-37B program is only AF, and Boeing hasn't shown any desire to operate another airframe on their own dime.
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Offline Todd Martin

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #8 on: 10/24/2014 07:26 PM »
One thing I was confused on is whether DC4Science is a full scale DC outfitted for science or a scale-down version DC meant for launch with Strato.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #9 on: 10/24/2014 07:37 PM »
We’re able to turn our vehicle into a mobile laboratory. That would allow us to contemplate a series of microgravity experiments in configurations that could conduct short, medium and long term missions. We might also be able to do direct observation in space."

I wasn't aware that the current configuration of the Dream Chaser had power generation capabilities.  Are there solar panels that deploy, or are built in?  Or for this application it won't separate from the booster stage, and the booster stage will have the power generation equipment?
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #10 on: 10/24/2014 08:11 PM »
We’re able to turn our vehicle into a mobile laboratory. That would allow us to contemplate a series of microgravity experiments in configurations that could conduct short, medium and long term missions. We might also be able to do direct observation in space."

I wasn't aware that the current configuration of the Dream Chaser had power generation capabilities.  Are there solar panels that deploy, or are built in?  Or for this application it won't separate from the booster stage, and the booster stage will have the power generation equipment?

Probably will ad a trunk or an extended mission logistics platform for solar power and whatever other necessities the mission may need.
« Last Edit: 10/24/2014 09:34 PM by JasonAW3 »
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #11 on: 10/25/2014 12:15 AM »
How is this different from DragonLab? Besides the fact that DragonLab is essentially Dragon cargo, which is already flies?


Lower g recovery, immediate access to experiments after return, and not having to pay for a new spacecraft every time you launch are a few benefits over the cargo Dragon, might change after commercial crew though.

The X-37B program is only AF, and Boeing hasn't shown any desire to operate another airframe on their own dime.
Cargo Dragon is reusable. It's mentioned in the dang brochure, even. DragonLab isn't going anywhere near people or NASA assets so won't need NASA's onerous recertification requirements for reuse.
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Offline TomH

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #12 on: 10/25/2014 02:35 AM »
Quote
suborbital point-to-point transportation

This just is not realistic. At a minimum, it would take months to schedule a flight. Even if you had the thing on stand-by, it would take days to prep the spacecraft itself. Then you would pay at least tens of millions of dollars (if not hundreds) for the flight. All this when you could just charter a private jet (Airbus is building a Mach 1.6 business jet) and be anywhere in the world in less than 12 hours? No. And the US Navy will not put one on standby with a team of 3 SEALS either.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #13 on: 10/25/2014 04:17 AM »
Cargo Dragon is reusable. It's mentioned in the dang brochure, even. DragonLab isn't going anywhere near people or NASA assets so won't need NASA's onerous recertification requirements for reuse.

And yet SpaceX hasnt reused a single Dragon for DragonLab yet, and they used to say cargo Dragon would be reused until recently. Salt water is very nasty stuff, there is a reason SpaceX is going to land crew on land.
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #14 on: 10/25/2014 04:21 AM »
Cargo Dragon is reusable. It's mentioned in the dang brochure, even. DragonLab isn't going anywhere near people or NASA assets so won't need NASA's onerous recertification requirements for reuse.

And yet SpaceX hasnt reused a single Dragon for DragonLab yet, and they used to say cargo Dragon would be reused until recently. Salt water is very nasty stuff, there is a reason SpaceX is going to land crew on land.
That's because nobody has wanted a DragonLab, new or used. NASA (due to ISS safety) wants a lot of hardcore recertification work to recertify used Dragons for reflight, basically nulling the cost benefit. But that doesn't mean another customer wouldn't get a used Dragon for DragonLab (or have to pay more for a new one).
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Online Chris Bergin

Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #15 on: 02/03/2015 10:25 PM »
Was going to write this up, but people fall over themselves to post pressers making my life 10 times harder, so.... ;)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

Sierra Nevada Corporation Successfully Completes Dream Chaser® Study with German Aerospace Industry Partners

SPARKS, Nev. (Feb. 3, 2015) – Sierra Nevada Corporation’s (SNC) Space Systems and OHB System AG (OHB) announce the completion of the initial Dream Chaser® for European Utilization (DC4EU) study co-funded by the Space Administration of the German Aerospace Center (DLR) and OHB. OHB and DLR are both based in Germany.

As announced by the companies in late 2013, SNC and OHB entered into an agreement to study the feasibility of using SNC’s Dream Chaser spacecraft for a variety of missions. The DC4EU study thoroughly reviewed applications for the Dream Chaser including crewed and uncrewed flights to low-Earth orbit (LEO) for missions such as microgravity science, satellite servicing and active debris removal (ADR).

“The inherent design advantages of the Dream Chaser reusable lifting body spacecraft make it an ideal vehicle for a broad range of space applications,” said Dr. Fritz Merkle, member of the Executive Management Board of OHB AG. “We partnered with SNC to study how the design of the Dream Chaser can be used to advance European interests in space. The study results confirm the viability of using the spacecraft for microgravity science and ADR. DC4EU can benefit the entire international space community with its unique capabilities. We look forward to further maturing our design with SNC as we expand our partnership.”

In addition to the study, OHB supported SNC as an exhibitor at the American Society for Gravitational Space Research Conference in late October. During the conference, SNC presented the Dream Chaser spacecraft microgravity research capability for the first time including the debut of a full scale mock-up of the Dream Chaser for Science mission variant.

The DC4EU study is SNC’s first contracted international effort to explore the broad capabilities of the Dream Chaser vehicle.

“We highly value our partnership with the German Aerospace Center and industry teammates, we see this study as the first step towards achieving broad scientific and servicing applications for international missions,” said Dr. John Olson, vice president of Space Exploration Systems for SNC’s Space Systems. “SNC is currently working with OHB on the next phase of our ongoing DC4EU collaboration together with DLR and will be announcing further details in the near future.

SNC’s Dream Chaser is a multi-mission-capable space utility vehicle that is able to flexibly operate as an independent science platform, logistics enabler, or orbital servicing vehicle with the ability to deploy, retrieve, repair, replace, refuel, or assemble items in space. Dream Chaser provides the only reusable, human-rated, lifting-body spacecraft with a commercial runway landing capability, anywhere in the world - offering safe, affordable, flexible and reliable transportation to space.

About OHB System AG
The systems specialist OHB System AG is one of the leading independent forces in European space. We have been making a name for ourselves on the market with our creative and business approach for a good 33 years particularly in our core business comprising low-orbiting and geostationary satellites. We are developing and executing some of the key projects of our times such as the Galileo FOC navigation satellites, In manned space flight, we are working intensively on humanity's most remote outpost, the International Space Station ISS. We were materially involved in assembling and equipping the Columbus research laboratory fitted to the ISS and the ATV space freighter as well as numerous experiment systems used on board the ISS.

About Sierra Nevada Corporation’s Space Systems
Sierra Nevada Corporation’s Space Systems business area based in Louisville, Colorado, designs and manufactures advanced spacecraft, space vehicles, rocket motors and spacecraft subsystems and components for the U.S. Government, commercial customers, as well as for the international market.  SNC’s Space Systems has more than 25 years of space heritage and has participated in over 400 successful space missions through the delivery of over 4,000 systems, subsystems and components.  During its history, SNC’s Space Systems has concluded over 70 programs for NASA and over 50 other clients. For more information about SNC’s Space Systems visit www.sncspace.com and follow us at Facebook.com/SNCSpaceSystems and Twitter @SNCspacesystems.

About Sierra Nevada Corporation
Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC), headquartered in Sparks, Nevada, is among the “World’s Top 10 Most Innovative Companies in Space.” Over the last 30 years, under the leadership of President Eren Ozmen and CEO Fatih Ozmen, SNC has become one of America’s fastest-growing private companies and the Top Woman-Owned Federal Contractor in the United States. With a workforce of over 3,000 personnel in 31 locations in 17 states, SNC has a reputation for rapid, innovative, and agile technology solutions in electronics, aerospace, avionics, space, propulsion, micro-satellite, aircraft, communications systems and solar energy.

SNC has six unique business areas that are dedicated to providing leading-edge solutions to its dynamic customer base. SNC has a proven track record of success spanning more than five decades. It is focused on providing its customers with the very best in diversified technologies and continues to focus its growth on the commercial sector through internal advancements in dual-use applications and outside acquisitions including the emerging markets of renewable energy, telemedicine, nanotechnology, cyber and net-centric operations.

Offline llanitedave

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #16 on: 02/04/2015 02:47 AM »
I do hope something comes of it.
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Online Chris Bergin

Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #17 on: 10/11/2016 01:25 PM »
Compatible with Ariane 6 was a cool thing to see (we know, but they've never really said it before I don't think).

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


The Dream Chaser® for European Utilization Program Takes Flight with Memorandum of Understanding

 

SPARKS, Nev. (October 11, 2016) - The Dream Chaser® for European Utilization (DC4EU) program kicked off its pilot phase with the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC), Telespazio, the European Space Agency (ESA) and OHB System AG (OHB) will now assess the feasibility and commercial viability of the DC4EU dedicated mission to provide affordable, independent European access to low-Earth orbit (LEO) via the Dream Chaser space utility vehicle (SUV).

“The Dream Chaser SUV is the only reusable, lifting-body spacecraft with a commercial runway landing capability anywhere in the world – offering safe, affordable, flexible and reliable transportation to space,” said Mark Sirangelo, corporate vice president of SNC’s space systems business area. “That is exactly what our industry team is offering Europe during the ISS transition phase.”


The DC4EU Pilot Phase

The DC4EU mission was one of eight selected by ESA to begin pilot phase implementation in 2016. It offers the best value for European access to LEO by providing a full end-to-end mission capability using the unique attributes of the SUV including, compatibility with the European Ariane 6 launch vehicle and the ability to land on suitable runways for near-immediate payload access. The objective of the pilot phase is to demonstrate the technical and programmatic feasibility of DC4EU, which includes the preparation of a business plan highlighting the partnership viability for both private and public interests.


“Commercial partnerships are a new element of the ESA Space Exploration Program. They open up space exploration for private sector-led initiatives and offer exciting opportunities for advancing the implementation of the ESA strategic goals for space exploration in novel ways and for enlarging the stakeholder community actively engaged in exploring space,” said David Parker, ESA director for Human Spaceflight and Robotic Exploration.


Dr. Fritz Merkle, Chief Marketing Officer and Executive Board Member of OHB Group highlighted another key use for future missions, “One national and international mission goal is a sustained utilization of human-tended infrastructures beyond the life of the International Space Station (ISS) with increased cost efficiency and responsiveness to utilization interests.”


Giuseppe Aridon, Vice President Strategy and Marketing of Telespazio explains: “DC4EU could represent a valuable platform to enable independent European access to LEO through a ‘customized’ European variant of the Dream Chaser spacecraft. We are willing to explore the potential of such a promising solution, that could be a major element for the setting up of the future European LEO service missions ecosystem, that will see the Dream Chaser operating alongside other European assets and infrastructures for first of a kind transatlantic partnership in this field, with true a global perspective!”


DC4EU Team

In March 2015, ESA released a Call for Ideas (CFI) for ‎strategic partnerships with the private sector in the field of Space Exploration. In response, OHB System AG (Germany), Sierra Nevada Corporation ‎‎(USA) and Telespazio SpA (Italy) teamed to create what is now called Dream Chaser for European ‎Utilization (DC4EU). ESA has selected the DC4EU mission out of 60 partnership ideas for a pilot phase implementation. Developed by SNC, the Dream Chaser SUV is contracted by NASA to provide cargo services to and from the ISS under the Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) contract. The uncrewed Dream Chaser spacecraft variant is capable of transporting pressurized and unpressurized cargo to and from LEO with controlled entry and landing on approved airports.


About OHB
As one-of-a-kind European technology and space company we offer space-solutions addressing the entire value chain for satellite development, construction and operation, data transmission and processing including the development and construction of scientific payloads and aerospace/aviation structures.


We are developing and executing some of the key space-projects of our times such as the Galileo navigation satellites, the SARah reconnaissance system, the MTG meteorological satellites, the EnMAP environmental satellite and our SmallGEO telecommunications satellites. Our goal is to harness existing growth potential in the German and European space, telematics, aerospace and security programs and

to extend and consolidate our leadership in the European small-satellite segment on a sustained basis.
Find out more about OHB at www.ohb-system.de


About Telespazio

Telespazio, a Leonardo and Thales 67/33 joint venture, is one of the world’s leading operators in satellite services. Its activities range from the design and development of space systems to the management of launch services, from in-orbit satellite control to Earth observation, from integrated communications, satellite navigation and localisation services to scientific programmes. Telespazio plays a leading role in the reference markets harnessing technological experience acquired over the years. Since its establishment, the company has participated in major European space programmes such as Galileo, EGNOS, Copernicus and COSMO-SkyMed. In 2015, Telespazio generated sales of EUR 632 million while employing approximately 2,500 people worldwide. www.telespazio.com


About Sierra Nevada Corporation

Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC) provides customer-focused technology solutions in the areas of aerospace, aviation, electronics and systems integration. SNC has been honored as one of “The World’s Top 10 Most Innovative Companies in Space,” and one of America’s fastest growing companies. SNC’s Space Systems business area based in Louisville, Colorado, designs and manufactures advanced spacecraft, space vehicles, rocket motors and spacecraft subsystems and components for the U.S. Government, commercial customers, as well as for the international market. SNC has more than 25 years of space heritage, participating in more than 450 successful space missions and delivering 4,000+ systems, subsystems and components around the world.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #18 on: 10/11/2016 04:59 PM »
One big plus DC has going for it is being able use Ariane 6. This means lion share of mission costs a spent domestically on the Ariane 6 launch.

DC can also return to European runway.


Offline woods170

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #19 on: 10/12/2016 05:15 PM »
One big plus DC has going for it is being able use Ariane 6. This means lion share of mission costs a spent domestically on the Ariane 6 launch.

DC can also return to European runway.


As far as A6 is concerned DC is just another payload. As long as the payload sticks to the A6 interface requirements and available mission profiles it's just a matter of sticking the thing on top and light the candle.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #20 on: 10/15/2016 11:56 AM »
This is interesting:

Quote
Giuseppe Aridon, Vice President Strategy and Marketing of Telespazio explains: “DC4EU could represent a valuable platform to enable independent European access to LEO through a ‘customized’ European variant of the Dream Chaser spacecraft. We are willing to explore the potential of such a promising solution, that could be a major element for the setting up of the future European LEO service missions ecosystem, that will see the Dream Chaser operating alongside other European assets and infrastructures for first of a kind transatlantic partnership in this field, with true a global perspective!”

So this isnt just sticking an existing DC on an Ariane 6, but a separate derivative for Europe.
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #21 on: 10/15/2016 12:27 PM »
When I brought up the topic of DC flying on a non American rocket years back the issue of ITAR came up. How is this a non-issue now? Just curious... ???
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Offline woods170

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #22 on: 10/17/2016 03:00 PM »
When I brought up the topic of DC flying on a non American rocket years back the issue of ITAR came up. How is this a non-issue now? Just curious... ???

Similar provisions as for JWST being launched on A5. Including waivers etc.

Offline Nibb31

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #23 on: 10/24/2016 01:17 PM »
JWST is a joint ESA/NASA mission, with the launch being part of ESA's contribution. DC4EU would be a totally different game, with ESA purchasing a product from an American company and no NASA involvement.

I see several problems with the idea. One of those is ITAR. Another would be European governments writing a huge check to purchase a major component from an non-European company. ESA doesn't usually do this, because its main purpose is to stimulate EU space technology. They would rather pay more to pay for jobs and technological knowledge in Europe.

The only way I could see it working would be to license the vehicle design and have it built by Airbus, ThalesAlenia or some other European company.

Another minor niggle is the name DC4EU, since ESA has nothing to do with the EU.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #24 on: 10/24/2016 05:22 PM »
I see several problems with the idea. One of those is ITAR. Another would be European governments writing a huge check to purchase a major component from an non-European company. ESA doesn't usually do this, because its main purpose is to stimulate EU space technology. They would rather pay more to pay for jobs and technological knowledge in Europe.

Part of DC will be made in Europe (IBDM's) and since DC is reusable it is probably more palatable than a throw-away design. All Ariane Fairings are Swiss (not EU) and Vega uses the Ukranian RD-843 engine (also not EU) so there is plenty of precedent.

The truth is Europe just doesnt have the money to develop this all on their own, so while they might like to do so Europe will benefit more from supporting DC than doing more paperwork for an indigenous system they cannot afford.
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Offline Anabasis

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #25 on: 10/24/2016 05:32 PM »
I see several problems with the idea. One of those is ITAR. Another would be European governments writing a huge check to purchase a major component from an non-European company. ESA doesn't usually do this, because its main purpose is to stimulate EU space technology. They would rather pay more to pay for jobs and technological knowledge in Europe.

Part of DC will be made in Europe (IBDM's) and since DC is reusable it is probably more palatable than a throw-away design. All Ariane Fairings are Swiss (not EU) and Vega uses the Ukranian RD-843 engine (also not EU) so there is plenty of precedent.

The truth is Europe just doesnt have the money to develop this all on their own, so while they might like to do so Europe will benefit more from supporting DC than doing more paperwork for an indigenous system they cannot afford.



ESA is an European not an EU institution, a small but significant difference. Switzerland is an ESA member, so Ariane fairings coming from RUAG aren't really a precedent.

The VEGA 4th stage counts but a) there wasn't an European engine available b) there are plans to plans to replace it, so it's not a perfect example.
« Last Edit: 10/24/2016 05:34 PM by Anabasis »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #26 on: 10/25/2016 12:25 AM »
The service that is most comparable to a DC4Science that ESA (CIRA) has developed is IXV. That Launched on the 4th vega launch on a suborbital trajectory.  There is a project (plan) called PRIDE that tries to develop a reusable orbital vehicle that can land on a runway. PRIDE should be launched by vega (-C). So the total take off mass should stay below 3mT (~6k lb).
The IXV program had a cost of about 150mln euro. The PRIDE project will cost at least the same. DLR (Germany) has a plan to develop the Shefex hypersonic vehicles into a REX free flyer. REX FF should have a mass of 500 or 2000 kg, I  can't remember the mass exactly.

ESA and European space agencies would like to fly experiments in space. The ISS has a limited capability, and some experiments are to dangerous for the ISS crew. The vehicles under development in europe have less then half the capability of DC. Some payloads will be to heavy. ESA could develop their own DC, with a program cost of much more than 500mln. Or they could buy a DC4SCIENCE flight for less than 200mln.
Possibly NASA is interested in DC to ISS launches on ariane 62, as ISS contribution. And as backup for AtlasV.
If you look at the history of DC, I think you could find Hermes and the ISS reentry vehicle (joint NASA-ESA development) that have contributed to the technology used in DC.

About the ITAR technology protection regulations; what does the USA have to fear from the Europeans? We are your NATO allies. We try to astablish a free trade partnership (TTIP). Why this market destroying distrust and US market protection?
« Last Edit: 10/25/2016 12:32 AM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline baldusi

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #27 on: 10/25/2016 01:37 AM »
I see several problems with the idea. One of those is ITAR. Another would be European governments writing a huge check to purchase a major component from an non-European company. ESA doesn't usually do this, because its main purpose is to stimulate EU space technology. They would rather pay more to pay for jobs and technological knowledge in Europe.

Part of DC will be made in Europe (IBDM's) and since DC is reusable it is probably more palatable than a throw-away design. All Ariane Fairings are Swiss (not EU) and Vega uses the Ukranian RD-843 engine (also not EU) so there is plenty of precedent.

The truth is Europe just doesnt have the money to develop this all on their own, so while they might like to do so Europe will benefit more from supporting DC than doing more paperwork for an indigenous system they cannot afford.
We don't know about the pressurized module on the back of the ship, but I suspect that it could go to Thales-Alenia. In short, if ESA gets enough contracts for the six CRS 2 flights, they could "pay" for a DC4S flight and still get a net "zero" cashflow. This is not unheard of and might be a deal in the back. Nothing wrong with it, either.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #28 on: 10/25/2016 03:34 AM »
It's not just about development, it's also about continuing support costs. Missions. And means to participate in HSF, and possibly "commercial space".

Look, the ESM is an example of this. Perhaps this might be ... another?

And ... its proving and maintaining the HSF vehicle's integrity that is the costly part of this, at government standards, that is what "leveraging" the programs here would be about. For the prospect of running missions instead off the funds that would otherwise be consumed with such.

Offline jongoff

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Re: SNC reveals the DC4Science Dream Chaser variant
« Reply #29 on: 10/28/2016 06:20 PM »
When I brought up the topic of DC flying on a non American rocket years back the issue of ITAR came up. How is this a non-issue now? Just curious... ???

ITAR doesn't mean you can't sell things on the USML to foreigners, it just means you have to get State Department permission and TAAs setup. These cost money and take time, but if LM and Boeing can get State Department permission to sell fighter jets to foreign countries, you better believe that SNC can get State Department permission to fly Dreamchaser on an Ariane 6.

~Jon

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