Author Topic: Proposed Europa Missions  (Read 330919 times)

Offline gosnold

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« Last Edit: 06/20/2017 09:29 PM by gosnold »

Offline sevenperforce

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1581 on: 06/27/2017 05:11 PM »
Does anyone know what propellant will be used for Europa Clipper's thrusters? Is it ion, mono, or biprop?

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1582 on: 06/27/2017 05:59 PM »
Does anyone know what propellant will be used for Europa Clipper's thrusters? Is it ion, mono, or biprop?

Pretty sure it's bipropellant; NTO/MMT combo with the later doing double-duty for small maneuvers and attitude.  Pretty much similar to what Cassini or MRO used.  NASA may debate on which fuel to use for a human mission, but with probes they stick with known mono propellants or a bi-setup when big orbit insertions unavoidable.
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Offline sevenperforce

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1583 on: 06/27/2017 06:01 PM »
Does anyone know what propellant will be used for Europa Clipper's thrusters? Is it ion, mono, or biprop?

Pretty sure it's bipropellant; NTO/MMT combo with the later doing double-duty for small maneuvers and attitude.  Pretty much similar to what Cassini or MRO used.  NASA may debate on which fuel to use for a human mission, but with probes they stick with known mono propellants or a bi-setup when big orbit insertions unavoidable.

Thanks. Planning a KSP clone and wanted to be as accurate as possible.
« Last Edit: 06/27/2017 06:04 PM by sevenperforce »

Offline Jim

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1584 on: 06/27/2017 06:32 PM »
Does anyone know what propellant will be used for Europa Clipper's thrusters? Is it ion, mono, or biprop?

Pretty sure it's bipropellant; NTO/MMT combo with the later doing double-duty for small maneuvers and attitude.  Pretty much similar to what Cassini or MRO used.  NASA may debate on which fuel to use for a human mission, but with probes they stick with known mono propellants or a bi-setup when big orbit insertions unavoidable.

FYI. MRO was monoprop.

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1585 on: 06/27/2017 10:21 PM »
Does anyone know what propellant will be used for Europa Clipper's thrusters? Is it ion, mono, or biprop?

Pretty sure it's bipropellant; NTO/MMT combo with the later doing double-duty for small maneuvers and attitude.  Pretty much similar to what Cassini or MRO used.  NASA may debate on which fuel to use for a human mission, but with probes they stick with known mono propellants or a bi-setup when big orbit insertions unavoidable.

FYI. MRO was monoprop.

My mistake.  It does show how NASA prefers to work with simple i.e. monopropellants whenever possible, and biprop when something bigger required.  MRO was able to reach Mars w/o biprop in its case.
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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1586 on: 07/10/2017 06:44 PM »
Quote
Europa Clipper Update Planned for 2017 Mars Society Convention
 
The Mars Society is pleased to announce that Dr. Robert Pappalardo, a Project Scientist in JPL’s Planetary Science Division, will provide an update about NASA’s Europa Clipper mission during the 20th Annual International Mars Society Convention, scheduled for September 7-10, 2017 at the University of California Irvine.
 
Due for launch in the 2020’s, the Europa Clipper mission will place a spacecraft in orbit around Jupiter in order to perform a detailed investigation of the giant planet's moon Europa - a world that shows strong evidence for an ocean of liquid water beneath its icy crust and which could host conditions favorable for life.
 
Dr. Pappalardo’s research focuses on processes that have shaped the icy satellite moons of the outer solar system, especially Europa, the nature, origin and evolution of bright grooved terrain on Jupiter’s moon Ganymede and the geological implications of geyser-like activity on Saturn’s moon Enceladus. Prior to joining JPL in 2006, Dr. Pappalardo served as an Assistant Professor of Planetary Science at the University of Colorado Boulder’s Astrophysical & Planetary Science Department.
 
For more details about the 2017 Mars Society Convention, including registration information for the four-day convention and evening banquet, please visit our web site (www.marssociety.org). The full 2017 speaker schedule will be posted online in the near future.

http://mailchi.mp/marssociety/utdd0ujaqz-1101873

Offline Star One

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Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1587 on: 07/12/2017 07:32 PM »
Space Subcommittee Hearing- Planetary Flagship Missions: Mars Rover 2020 and Europa Clipper

Quote
Witnesses
Dr. Jim Green

Director, Planetary Science Division, Science Mission Directorate, NASA

Dr. Kenneth Farley

Mars Rover 2020 Project Scientist; Professor of Geochemistry, California Institute of Technology

Dr. Robert Pappalardo

Europa Clipper Project Scientist, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology

Dr. Linda T. Elkins-Tanton

Director and Foundation Professor, School of Earth and Space Exploration, Arizona State University; Principal Investigator, NASA Psyche Mission

Dr. William B. McKinnon

Co-Chair, National Academy of Sciences, Committee on Astrobiology and Planetary Science; Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Washington University in St. Louis

https://science.house.gov/legislation/hearings/space-subcommittee-hearing-planetary-flagship-missions-mars-rover-2020-and
« Last Edit: 07/12/2017 07:33 PM by Star One »

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1588 on: 07/12/2017 10:04 PM »
U.S. House of Representatives
Date: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 - 10:00am
Location: 2318 Rayburn House Office Building
Subcommittees: Subcommittee on Space (115th Congress)

Space Subcommittee Hearing- Planetary Flagship Missions: Mars Rover 2020 and Europa Clipper

Quote
Witnesses
Dr. Jim Green

Director, Planetary Science Division, Science Mission Directorate, NASA

Dr. Kenneth Farley

Mars Rover 2020 Project Scientist; Professor of Geochemistry, California Institute of Technology

Dr. Robert Pappalardo

Europa Clipper Project Scientist, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology

Dr. Linda T. Elkins-Tanton

Director and Foundation Professor, School of Earth and Space Exploration, Arizona State University; Principal Investigator, NASA Psyche Mission

Dr. William B. McKinnon

Co-Chair, National Academy of Sciences, Committee on Astrobiology and Planetary Science; Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Washington University in St. Louis

https://science.house.gov/legislation/hearings/space-subcommittee-hearing-planetary-flagship-missions-mars-rover-2020-and
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1589 on: 07/18/2017 06:20 PM »
Surprised that no one had posted this, or their commentary, yet...

Hearing opens about 25 minutes into the file.

« Last Edit: 07/18/2017 06:21 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1590 on: 07/18/2017 07:11 PM »
JPL moves ahead with Mars and Europa missions despite funding uncertainty

http://spacenews.com/jpl-moves-ahead-with-mars-and-europa-missions-despite-funding-uncertainty/

Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1591 on: 08/29/2017 07:38 PM »
ALMA Thermal Observations of a Proposed Plume Source Region on Europa

Quote
We present a daytime thermal image of Europa taken with the Atacama Large Millimeter Array. The imaged region includes the area northwest of Pwyll Crater, which is associated with a nighttime thermal excess seen by the Galileo Photopolarimeter Radiometer and with two potential plume detections. We develop a global thermal model of Europa and simulate both the daytime and nighttime thermal emission to determine if the nighttime thermal anomaly is caused by excess endogenic heat flow, as might be expected from a plume source region. We find that the nighttime and daytime brightness temperatures near Pwyll Crater cannot be matched by including excess heat flow at that location. Rather, we can successfully model both measurements by increasing the local thermal inertia of the surface.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.07922

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1592 on: 08/31/2017 05:08 PM »
NASA studies mission to return samples from Mars by end of 2020s, dated August 28

Quote
Proceeding with development of a Mars Ascent Vehicle and fetch rover for a launch in 2026 will strain NASA’s planetary science budget.

The multibillion-dollar Europa Clipper mission is scheduled for launch in the early 2020s to make dozens of low-altitude flybys of Jupiter’s ice-covered moon, and NASA is also studying a Europa lander that could launch later in the decade. Europa Clipper is an approved mission, while the lander is still awaiting a go-ahead from NASA Headquarters.
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Offline Star One

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Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1593 on: 09/06/2017 08:06 PM »
Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Niebur: concerned about growth in resources for payloads on Europa Clipper. Reporting plan in place to monitor instruments in development.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905459292106575873

Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Niebur: Europa Lander had mission concept review in June; still evaluating different options for mission, so premature for instrument AO.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905459905502613504


Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Bob Pappalardo, JPL, at OPAG meeting: Europa Clipper spacecraft now up to 4.5 solar panels per wing for add’l power for instruments.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905489471432515584

Image on the above link.

Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Pappalardo: already started preliminary design reviews for subsystems of Europa Clipper. Full project PDR in August 2018.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905490000837529601

Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Niebur reiterates that NASA is “reconsidering the trade space” for Europa Lander, which take some time. “Science is on the table.”
7:59 pm · 6 Sep 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905505650616266753

Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Q: cost estimate for Europa Lander?
Niebur: estimates in progress, not yet briefed to HQ. Prefer they hear it from us first, not Twitter.
8:03 pm · 6 Sep 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905506782734426112

Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Replying to @jabe8
SLS is currently the only launch vehicle under consideration for launching Europa Lander.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/905509735495028738
« Last Edit: 09/06/2017 08:16 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1594 on: 09/07/2017 04:31 PM »
Further to the above here is the related article.

NASA studying less expensive options for Europa lander mission

Quote
WASHINGTON — NASA is continuing to examine various, potentially less expensive options for a mission to land on Jupiter’s moon Europa even after completing a recent review, postponing a call for instruments for the spacecraft.

At a meeting of the Outer Planets Assessment Group (OPAG) Sept. 6 in La Jolla, California, Curt Niebur, a program scientist in the planetary science division at NASA Headquarters, said mission planners are continuing to examine several factors, including mission cost and science return, as they evaluate the design of the mission.

The lander mission, he said, successfully passed an early-stage review called a mission concept review in June. However, he said the agency had not settled on a specific, single concept for the mission.

“As a result of that mission concept review, what we want to do is essentially continue exploring the different options we have for a Europa lander mission,” he said. “We want to continue balancing the trade amongst risk, cost and science return.”

Quote
Progress is going well on Europa Clipper, Niebur and others said at the OPAG meeting. The mission passed a major project milestone called Key Decision Point B in February, allowing it to enter a preliminary design phase. Robert Pappalardo, project scientist for the mission, said at the OPAG meeting that the mission is on schedule to complete a series of preliminary design reviews by next August.

One issue with Europa Clipper that Niebur raised is the growth in resources in the spacecraft’s instrument payload. “It wasn’t so much that the resources grew, but it was the amount that they grew,” he said. The mission, he said, has put into place a “resource monitoring plan” to track that growth, and understand what instruments are having issues as early as possible.

Power demands from those instruments, though, have led to a design change in the spacecraft. The spacecraft’s two solar arrays now consist of four and a half panels each, up from four panels from earlier designs. “We needed to increase the total size of the arrays slightly in order to accommodate the energy demands of the payload,” Pappalardo said.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-studying-less-expensive-options-for-europa-lander-mission/
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 04:35 PM by Star One »

Offline redliox

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1595 on: 09/07/2017 06:16 PM »
Further to the above here is the related article.

NASA studying less expensive options for Europa lander mission

I can already hear Blackstar laughing out loud...

The article does make a point although, as we all know (and Blackstar moreso via expertise), Europa (and the rest of the Outer Planets) don't come cheap.

The only thought that comes to mind on how to, somewhat effectively, reduce cost would be by reducing mass (which no doubt is debatable).  Both this lander and the 'Clipper will be hauling a ton of propellant, and handling it in turn amps up complexity.  You could try cutting out the 'carrier,' although there are numerous complexities (which, as I'm sure Blackstar will testify) result in why some engineers opt for making a second craft instead of a slightly-insane lander.  On top of that (and a simpler route), would be doing as many Galilean gravity assists possible to lower the lander's velocity to make a smoother landing; I have a feeling the engineers have already calculated this part heavily.  Regarding this, the best you could do with the least rads would be to get the lander to closely match Ganymede's orbit via GAs prior to rendezvousing with Europa for a final few GAs there and descent.

Cutting those instruments will send the scientists into a bloodbath of competition.  Personally I'd suggest cameras and seisometers, but I can see how microscopes and chemistry labs would make the trip worthwhile (*coughsettlelifequestionfastercough*).  The 20 day limit (coupled with whatever rad exposure from the possible GAs beforehand) will further restrict science.  No easy choices.
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Offline Star One

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Re: Proposed Europa Missions
« Reply #1596 on: 09/07/2017 06:43 PM »
Would it be better to send a heavier lander but on a slower gravity assisted route even if you used the same launcher?