Author Topic: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread  (Read 113276 times)

Offline racshot65

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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #1 on: 01/08/2012 12:35 PM »
Sigh, to bad they can not send a half dozen seismometer's to different locations to better map Mar's interior.

Considering it was built on the Phoenix platform, that flew on a Delta II, is it possible to fit two or more on the larger Atlas V? Or is there a chance this will fly on the Antares or Falcon 9?
« Last Edit: 01/08/2012 12:35 PM by kevin-rf »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #2 on: 01/08/2012 08:09 PM »
Sigh, to bad they can not send a half dozen seismometer's to different locations to better map Mar's interior.

Considering it was built on the Phoenix platform, that flew on a Delta II, is it possible to fit two or more on the larger Atlas V? Or is there a chance this will fly on the Antares or Falcon 9?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's a lot you can do with one really good seismometer (a really long integration of very high resolution and very good signal/noise can sometimes do the work of several such probes with mediocre seismometers... and when you develop a better model of the interior of Mars, the knowledge of the model can then allow you to pull better data out of the output of the seismometer... I once did a simulation that showed that if you don't have dissipation and have knowledge of the environment such as all the different interfaces that waves can bounce off, a single sensor can accurately map the location and characteristics of several disturbances simultaneously). This mission hasn't even been approved, yet... It's just one of three proposals in this mission class that may get approved (only one will). Budget is always tight for this sort of thing, so launching several of these isn't very realistic.
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Offline simonbp

Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #3 on: 01/18/2012 03:06 PM »
This mission hasn't even been approved, yet... It's just one of three proposals in this mission class that may get approved (only one will).

And, it should be noted, it's going for a standard Discovery mission, which is hard for Mars missions, given that they have their own separate budget category (a Dan Goldin legacy).

Also, if it does not happen, all hope is not lost for a Mars geophysical mission, as it appears the "Red Dragon" that Ames is proposing for the following Discovery round includes a very similar instrument package (but larger).

Offline Jim

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #4 on: 01/18/2012 03:30 PM »
This mission hasn't even been approved, yet... It's just one of three proposals in this mission class that may get approved (only one will).

And, it should be noted, it's going for a standard Discovery mission, which is hard for Mars missions, given that they have their own separate budget category (a Dan Goldin legacy).


Used to, I believe.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #5 on: 01/21/2012 02:54 AM »
Sigh, to bad they can not send a half dozen seismometer's to different locations to better map Mar's interior.

Considering it was built on the Phoenix platform, that flew on a Delta II, is it possible to fit two or more on the larger Atlas V? Or is there a chance this will fly on the Antares or Falcon 9?

Missed this post. FYI, the guy who is proposing InSight (formerly GeM), previously proposed a three-lander configuration called Cerberus (the three-headed mythological dog). That was proposed for a New Frontiers class mission, but JPL rejected it in an early stage and so it never got formalized. I have a PowerPoint on the proposal for it somewhere.

I figure that people probably hate when I do this, but I'll explain why the kind of mission you proposed above is not possible. The reason is that there are three classes of planetary missions:

Discovery--small, cost-capped, open to competition, any target is possible
New Frontiers--medium, cost-capped, open to competition, but the target must be selected from a list that is included in the decadal survey
Flagships--large, not cost-capped, run by JPL (no competition), the target is selected by the decadal survey

Any mission requiring more than one lander at Mars is going to cost more than the Discovery budget will allow, meaning that it has to be New Frontiers or a flagship. And no Mars seismology mission has been selected as a possible target for either New Frontiers or flagships. So there is no valid path for that type of mission to get approved.
« Last Edit: 01/21/2012 03:06 AM by Blackstar »

Offline plutogno

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #6 on: 01/21/2012 01:07 PM »
And no Mars seismology mission has been selected as a possible target for either New Frontiers or flagships.

are you sure? there was an interim NASA-sponsored NRC New Frontiers study in 2007 that suggested a Martian or lunar network as a possible mission, in addition to a “primitive” asteroid sample return, a Ganymede and a Io observer.
In fact, it was based on the conclusions that study that OSIRIS-REx was selected, as asteroid sample returns were not one of the suggested missions of the first decadal survey.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #7 on: 01/21/2012 03:13 PM »
And no Mars seismology mission has been selected as a possible target for either New Frontiers or flagships.

are you sure? there was an interim NASA-sponsored NRC New Frontiers study in 2007 that suggested a Martian or lunar network as a possible mission, in addition to a “primitive” asteroid sample return, a Ganymede and a Io observer.
In fact, it was based on the conclusions that study that OSIRIS-REx was selected, as asteroid sample returns were not one of the suggested missions of the first decadal survey.

Yes. I was the study director on that 2007 study (often called the NOSSE report because it was the Committee on New Opportunities in Solar System Exploration). That report did make a Mars network as one possible New Frontiers option, and OSIRIS-REx did come out of that report.

However, the decadal survey now supersedes that report (I was one of two study directors on the decadal survey), and the only valid New Frontiers options are the ones in the decadal survey. That includes a lunar seismic network, but not a Mars network.
« Last Edit: 01/21/2012 03:13 PM by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #8 on: 01/21/2012 09:16 PM »
By the way, you can find tons of material on the decadal survey here:

http://sites.nationalacademies.org/SSB/CurrentProjects/ssb_052412

That includes numerous studies of various planetary missions.

Here are the missions approved in the New Frontiers program, no relative priority assigned:

Select NF-4 from among:
- Comet Surface Sample Return
- Lunar South Pole-Aitken Basin Sample Return
- Saturn Probe
- Trojan Tour and Rendezvous
- Venus In Situ Explorer

For NF-5:
- The remaining candidates from NF-4
- Io Observer
- Lunar Geophysical Network


Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #9 on: 01/22/2012 02:48 AM »
Just for good measure, these are the other New Frontiers options (LSPA and VISE not included because teams have actively studied them in the recent past and so the decadal survey did not have to do that.)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #10 on: 01/22/2012 02:49 AM »
Here's the Trojan mission New Frontiers concept.

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #11 on: 01/22/2012 11:21 PM »
Does anyone know what else is being proposed so far as competitors for this round of Discovery funding?

Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #12 on: 01/23/2012 02:10 AM »
Does anyone know what else is being proposed so far as competitors for this round of Discovery funding?

Yeah, InSight, Comet Hopper, and Titan Mare Explorer (TiME). There was a thread here last year discussing them. I posted pics and stuff. Dig around and I think you can find it.

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #13 on: 01/23/2012 08:19 PM »
Thanks Blackstar. There's so much info constantly flowing through the site I have a hard time keeping track of smaller programs, especially at the preliminary stages. I also had a notion in my head that TiME was a New Frontiers class mission.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #14 on: 01/24/2012 01:43 AM »
Thanks Blackstar. There's so much info constantly flowing through the site I have a hard time keeping track of smaller programs, especially at the preliminary stages. I also had a notion in my head that TiME was a New Frontiers class mission.

Dig around using "Titan" or "mare" as a search term and you should be able to find it.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #15 on: 08/20/2012 08:37 PM »
Kinda related, so putting this on here for now:

RELEASE: 12-288

NEW NASA MISSION TO TAKE FIRST LOOK DEEP INSIDE MARS

WASHINGTON -- NASA has selected a new mission, set to launch in 2016,
that will take the first look into the deep interior of Mars to see
why the Red Planet evolved so differently from Earth as one of our
solar system's rocky planets.

The new mission, named InSight, will place instruments on the Martian
surface to investigate whether the core of Mars is solid or liquid
like Earth's and why Mars' crust is not divided into tectonic plates
that drift like Earth's. Detailed knowledge of the interior of Mars
in comparison to Earth will help scientists understand better how
terrestrial planets form and evolve.

"The exploration of Mars is a top priority for NASA, and the selection
of InSight ensures we will continue to unlock the mysteries of the
Red Planet and lay the groundwork for a future human mission there,"
NASA Administrator Charles Bolden said. "The recent successful
landing of the Curiosity rover has galvanized public interest in
space exploration and today's announcement makes clear there are more
exciting Mars missions to come."

InSight will be led by W. Bruce Banerdt at NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, Calif. InSight's science team includes
U.S. and international co-investigators from universities, industry
and government agencies. The French space agency Centre National
d'Etudes Spatiales, or CNES, and the German Aerospace Center, or DLR,
are contributing instruments to InSight, which is scheduled to land
on Mars in September 2016 to begin its two-year scientific mission.

InSight is the 12th selection in NASA's series of Discovery-class
missions. Created in 1992, the Discovery Program sponsors frequent,
cost-capped solar system exploration missions with highly focused
scientific goals. NASA requested Discovery mission proposals in June
2010 and received 28. InSight was one of three proposed missions
selected in May 2011 for funding to conduct preliminary design
studies and analyses. The other two proposals were for missions to a
comet and Saturn's moon Titan.

InSight builds on spacecraft technology used in NASA's highly
successful Phoenix lander mission, which was launched to the Red
Planet in 2007 and determined water existed near the surface in the
Martian polar regions. By incorporating proven systems in the
mission, the InSight team demonstrated that the mission concept was
low-risk and could stay within the cost-constrained budget of
Discovery missions. The cost of the mission, excluding the launch
vehicle and related services, is capped at $425 million in 2010
dollars.

"Our Discovery Program enables scientists to use innovative approaches
to answering fundamental questions about our solar system in the
lowest cost mission category," said John Grunsfeld, associate
administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA
Headquarters. "InSight will get to the 'core' of the nature of the
interior and structure of Mars, well below the observations we've
been able to make from orbit or the surface."

InSight will carry four instruments. JPL will provide an onboard
geodetic instrument to determine the planet's rotation axis and a
robotic arm and two cameras used to deploy and monitor instruments on
the Martian surface. CNES is leading an international consortium that
is building an instrument to measure seismic waves traveling through
the planet's interior. The German Aerospace Center is building a
subsurface heat probe to measure the flow of heat from the interior.

NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., manages the
Discovery Program for the agency's Science Mission Directorate in
Washington.

For more information about the Discovery Program, visit:

http://discovery.nasa.gov

For information about NASA and agency programs, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov


Offline Blackstar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #16 on: 08/20/2012 08:39 PM »
There's past discussion about the different options (the two other non-selected missions) in the space science section.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #17 on: 08/20/2012 09:07 PM »
Let's more it in there for commonality.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #18 on: 08/20/2012 09:23 PM »
For Immediate Release
Contact: Patrick Boland, 202-225-3278


Rep. Schiff Hails Announcement of New Mission to Mars


Pasadena, CA -- Today, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) hailed the announcement of a new mission to Mars that will be launched in 2016 to build on the work of several generations of rovers, landers, and orbiters that have been exploring the Red Planet since the 1960s. The new mission, named InSight, will place a lander on the Martian surface to investigate whether the core of Mars is solid or liquid like Earth's and why Mars' crust is not divided into tectonic plates that drift like Earth's. Detailed knowledge of the interior of Mars in comparison to Earth will help scientists understand better how terrestrial planets form and evolve.

“This is fantastic news for our Mars exploration program and will answer several key questions about Martian geology and may help us to understand better the processes that led to Mars and the Earth evolving in such different directions, even though there is evidence that abundant water once flowed on the surface of Mars,” Schiff said. “Also, by announcing this new mission soon after the landing of Curiosity, NASA will help to preserve the entry, descent and landing capabilities that were so spectacularly demonstrated by the scientists at JPL, whose talents will be crucial to future planetary exploration.”

According to NASA, InSight is the 12th selection in the space agency’s series of Discovery-class missions. Created in 1992, the Discovery Program sponsors frequent, cost-capped solar system exploration missions with highly focused scientific goals. NASA requested Discovery mission proposals in June 2010 and received 28. InSight was one of three proposed missions selected in May 2011 for funding to conduct preliminary design studies and analyses. The other two proposals were for missions to a comet and Saturn's moon Titan.

InSight builds on spacecraft technology used in NASA's highly successful Phoenix lander mission, which was launched to the Red Planet in 2007 and determined water existed near the surface in the Martian polar regions. By incorporating proven systems in the mission, the InSight team demonstrated that the mission concept was low-risk and could stay within the cost-constrained budget of Discovery missions. The cost of the mission, excluding the launch vehicle and related services, is capped at $425 million in 2010 dollars.

InSight will carry four instruments. JPL will provide an onboard geodetic instrument to determine the planet's rotation axis and a robotic arm and two cameras used to deploy and monitor instruments on the Martian surface. The French space agency, CNES, is leading an international consortium that is building an instrument to measure seismic waves traveling through the planet's interior. The German Aerospace Center is building a subsurface heat probe to measure the flow of heat from the interior.


###


--
Patrick M. Boland
Communications Director
Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA)
202-225-3278


Offline Kaputnik

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #19 on: 08/20/2012 09:48 PM »
Was this seen as the safest choice? I was more excited about TiME tbh.
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