Author Topic: NASA Selects Commercial Firms to Begin Development of Crew Transportation  (Read 145342 times)

Offline mmeijeri

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7772
  • Martijn Meijering
  • NL
  • Liked: 397
  • Likes Given: 822
And here we see the beginnings of real competition...
Pro-tip: you don't have to be a jerk if someone doesn't agree with your theories

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17267
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3065
Well, if it was real competition, they wouldn't get milestones payments. They would only get money for the finished product.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2010 10:53 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17267
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3065
The good news for SpaceX is that their proposal was for a launch abort system (LAS) and it doesn't seem like any of these other companies' proposal were for a launch abort system (as far as I know). So they didn't lose out to anybody in that sense.

SpaceX insists that they only need help with the LAS and that they have enough money for Falcon 9 and Dragon with the COTS and CRS contracts. In a nutshell, NASA's not going to give SpaceX money for something that they are not even asking for. They may get money for a LAS once NASA stars awarding contracts for that. I admit that this is a guess on my part. But it seems logical to me...

Well, I can report now that HMX's proposal was for a universal launch abort system applicable to several capsule concepts.  Obviously we didn't win, but we remain interested in developing the system.  It's a novel concept that we'll present later this year at AIAA Space 2010.

It should be interesting. NASA may prefer a universal solution for Boeing's capsule and for the Dragon capsule. I believe that Jim was saying in another post that the Dream Chaser already has a LAS. But it would still be very good for the capsules.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=19349.msg499510#msg499510
« Last Edit: 02/01/2010 11:29 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Bernie Roehl

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 282
  • Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
This is one of the few good news that came out today. The Dream Chaser is one of the coolest vehicule there is. I was quitely rooting for the Dream Chaser.   

Yes, I've always liked Dream Chaser as well.  I just never thought they'd get funded!

I like Dragon too, but I doubt it will ever fly on anything except a Falcon 9.  The Dream Chaser could launch on an Atlas V, Delta IV, Falcon 9...

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39271
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
The good news for SpaceX is that their proposal was for a launch abort system (LAS) and it doesn't seem like any of these other companies' proposal were for a launch abort system (as far as I know). So they didn't lose out to anybody in that sense.

SpaceX insists that they only need help with the LAS and that they have enough money for Falcon 9 and Dragon with the COTS and CRS contracts. In a nutshell, NASA's not going to give SpaceX money for something that they are not even asking for. They may get money for a LAS once NASA stars awarding contracts for that. I admit that this is a guess on my part. But it seems logical to me...

Well, I can report now that HMX's proposal was for a universal launch abort system applicable to several capsule concepts.  Obviously we didn't win, but we remain interested in developing the system.  It's a novel concept that we'll present later this year at AIAA Space 2010.

It should be interesting. NASA may prefer a universal solution for Boeing's capsule and for the Dragon capsule. Although I believe that Jim was saying that the Dream Chaser already has a LAS.
A universal LAS sounds like a good idea to me.

Dream Chaser is supposed to use a hybrid rocket for abort, I believe. It's a pusher rocket system, I believe. I don't know if hybrids are still baselined for it or if it's going to liquids now. I heard rumors from OV-106 about liquid pusher abort motors, but not any context about WHO would be using them.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Ronsmytheiii

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23394
  • Liked: 1879
  • Likes Given: 1023
One thing not mentioned is the fact that the money has been given to companies that rely on EELV's. There still exists Pentagon opposition to Human Space Flight on EELV's without another production line.  So what gives?

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428

It should be interesting. NASA may prefer a universal solution for Boeing's capsule and for the Dragon capsule.


No.  That would not be within the scope of a commercial crew service.  NASA may request "a" escape system but not a specific one.

Offline mmeijeri

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7772
  • Martijn Meijering
  • NL
  • Liked: 397
  • Likes Given: 822
Could it procure such a system and offer it to manned spaceflight providers, perhaps only for its own use, perhaps also for commercial applications? Sort of like an approved default system?
Pro-tip: you don't have to be a jerk if someone doesn't agree with your theories

Offline mmeijeri

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7772
  • Martijn Meijering
  • NL
  • Liked: 397
  • Likes Given: 822
"These selections represent a critical step to enable future
commercial human spaceflight," said Doug Cooke, associate
administrator for Exploration Systems at NASA. "These impressive
proposals will advance NASA significantly along the path to using
commercial services to ferry astronauts to and from low Earth orbit,
and we look forward to working with the selected teams," Cooke said.
(emphasis added)

Heheh.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2010 11:49 pm by mmeijeri »
Pro-tip: you don't have to be a jerk if someone doesn't agree with your theories

Offline Namechange User

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7301
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0

It should be interesting. NASA may prefer a universal solution for Boeing's capsule and for the Dragon capsule.


No.  That would not be within the scope of a commercial crew service.  NASA may request "a" escape system but not a specific one.

Plus, it could be problematic when having to deal with ICD's between a universal LAS and whatever the mold line of the vehicle may be.  In addition that could set up dynamics and guidance problems.
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline HMXHMX

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1710
  • Liked: 2215
  • Likes Given: 662
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

Offline mr. mark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
  • Liked: 172
  • Likes Given: 0
I think from past remarks Spacex would like to develop their LAS in house. Seems that they can push forward much faster than if it was developed by another company.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17267
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3065
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

Thanks very informative. It seems SpaceX was asking for too much money from NASA...
« Last Edit: 02/02/2010 02:38 am by yg1968 »

Offline neilh

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2365
  • Pasadena, CA
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 149
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

Wow, thanks!

For future reference, I've typed up the ratings from that doc below. Ratings are Blue (very high level of confidence), Green, White, Yellow, and Red (very low level of confidence). First color is for the evaluation of the Commercial Crew Capability Maturation Plan, while the second color is for the Company Information Evaluation. If there's values in parentheses, it's what the final evaluation was after due diligence by the company.

ATK: yellow / white
Andrews: white / white
Ball: green / white; (green / green)
Bigelow: yellow / green
Blue Origin: white / green; (green / green)
Boeing: green / green; (blue / green)
Firestar Engineering: yellow / yellow
HMX: yellow / yellow
Oceaneering: yellow / yellow
Odyssey Space Research: red / white
Orbital Outfitters: white / white
Orbital Sciences: white / white
Paragon: green / green; (green / blue)
PlanetSpace: yellow / white
Sierra Nevade: white / green; (green / blue)
SpaceX: white / white; (green / green)
ULA: green / blue; (green / blue)
XCOR: green / green; (green / green)

Someone is wrong on the Internet.
http://xkcd.com/386/

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17267
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3065
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

Did you receive this letter today or on December 8th?

Offline Ronsmytheiii

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23394
  • Liked: 1879
  • Likes Given: 1023
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

OSC should have been evaluated further if SpaceX was....

Offline HMXHMX

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1710
  • Liked: 2215
  • Likes Given: 662
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

Did you receive this letter today or on December 8th?

Today.

Offline general

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 104
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
The interesting tidbit in all this is that ULA is a common theme.  Boeing is flying their capsule on an Atlas or Delta.  Sierra Nevada is flying Dream Chaser on Atlas.  And ULA is developing an Emergency Detection System that is good for all space craft.

So it looks like ULA is in the cat bird's seat to launch Commercial Crew. 

Far from risky.  Good sound approach for NASA

Perhaps the use of existing, flight-proven launch vehicles will help calm the nerves of all the naysayers out there.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17267
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3065
Although you almost have to assume that NASA will choose at least 2 rockets for commercial crew in case one fails to deliver. I would guess ULA and SpaceX.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2010 03:51 am by yg1968 »

Offline Lampyridae

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
  • South Africa
  • Liked: 949
  • Likes Given: 2056
Here is the source selection statement, which is public information.

What I find interesting is that apparently the Blue Origin proposal involves a pusher abort system as well.

Wow, thanks!

For future reference, I've typed up the ratings from that doc below. Ratings are Blue (very high level of confidence), Green, White, Yellow, and Red (very low level of confidence). First color is for the evaluation of the Commercial Crew Capability Maturation Plan, while the second color is for the Company Information Evaluation. If there's values in parentheses, it's what the final evaluation was after due diligence by the company.

Same info, just put it in a nice table.


Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0