Author Topic: Cancelled: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara  (Read 93458 times)

Offline Salo Ukr

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Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara
« Reply #41 on: 05/28/2012 04:24 AM »
The construction is significant, but the November 2013 launch date seems to be based on someone raising more capital.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara
« Reply #42 on: 05/28/2012 11:19 AM »
The construction is significant, but the November 2013 launch date seems to be based on someone raising more capital.

Actually, what it says is that they approved the company's books, and decided to raise the stock amount. We don't know if this means that they will need more capital, or just that they are capitalizing the planned investments. I'll go around and ask.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara
« Reply #43 on: 05/28/2012 11:22 AM »
These are the tracking instruments of Alcantara.
« Last Edit: 05/28/2012 11:22 AM by baldusi »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara
« Reply #44 on: 06/03/2012 01:29 PM »
From the NK forum, a YouTube video of a test of the Cyclone 4 erector:




« Last Edit: 06/03/2012 01:30 PM by Danderman »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara
« Reply #45 on: 06/03/2012 01:37 PM »
http://technique.com.ua/rus/articles/56/687/

01.08.2011

from Google Translate:

Total PAO "Azovzagalmash" (included in the JSC "Azovmash") develops nine projects under the project Alcantara Cyclone Space.
  In the scientific and technical complex CHAO "AzovElectroStal" and head design office specialized railcar named V.M.Bubnova projects nearing completion of tank-containers, zones, fuel storage, neutralization station, removable equipment and systems for spacecraft.
  Now one of them for the supply of tank containers for transportation of fuel and oxidant is under contract.

  Recall that on July 6, "Azovzagalmash" delegation visited the Brazilian Space Agency, headed by its President Dr. Rauppom and representatives of BC ACS NSAU.
  First Deputy General Director of OJSC "Azovmash" Vladimir Telytsya briefed the guests on business, they visited the shop to see the realization of projects in the product. This is a ground transport units for transportation of parts for future missile systems, fuel and oxidizer filling, data collection and neutralization of industrial wastes.
  Praised the work done BCA President Marco Antonio Raupp. - We have seen that "Azovmash" - a reliable partner. Seen proves it. Efforts by companies to implement the orders of our BC Partner ACS approximate first rocket launch from the Baikonur Brazil.


Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara NET November 2013
« Reply #46 on: 06/08/2012 06:27 PM »
http://www.jasmine-galaxy.org/nano/nano-en.html

Nano-JASMINE is the technical demonstrator of JASMINE mission, and also the first space astrometry satellite mission in JAPAN. It will be launched at Aug. 2011 from Alcantara Launch Center at Brazil by Cyclon-4 rocket.

Now changed to:

" It will be launched at Nov. 2013"
« Last Edit: 06/08/2012 07:34 PM by Danderman »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #47 on: 06/20/2012 02:15 PM »
Based on the activity on the Alcantara web site, it looks like a launch sometime late next year or in 2014 is possible.

Offline Alexsander

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #48 on: 06/20/2012 02:37 PM »
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/ciencia/1103456-projeto-para-lancar-satelite-de-base-no-maranhao-esta-travado.shtml

ACS is not paying the building contractors, they already halved the number of workers and are threatening to stop the construction. Oleksandr Serdyuk said basically "no flight for 2013". Serdyuk also said the extra US$ 200 million they ask now are "cheap compared to stadiums for World Cup 2014".

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #49 on: 06/20/2012 03:27 PM »
Yep, the article says that they are underwater financially.

Offline Alexsander

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #50 on: 06/25/2012 02:34 PM »
Yep, the article says that they are underwater financially.

Update: 14-day strike ended with promise of "no more strikes until november"; workers will get "cesta básica" (common in Brazil, it's a big bag with food items like 10 pounds of rice and other non-perishable) and right to add a dependent (probably a spouse) to health-care plan.
http://g1.globo.com/ma/maranhao/noticia/2012/06/greve-no-centro-de-lancamento-de-alcantara-chega-ao-fim.html

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #51 on: 07/11/2012 03:54 PM »
Here is the website for the RD-861K engine to be used as the Cyclone 4 3rd stage:

http://www.yuzhnoye.com/index.php?id=148&path=Aerospace%20Technology/Rocket%20Propulsion/Liquid%20Engines/Sustainers/RD-861K/RD-861K_e&lang=en

Apparently, its an upgrade of the Cyclone 3 stage, with an extra 15 seconds of ISP.

Offline Satori

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #52 on: 07/29/2012 05:01 PM »
According to José Raimundo Braga Coelho, President of the Brazilian Space Agency, this launch will only now take place in 2014.

Offline osiossim

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #53 on: 08/06/2012 07:23 AM »
According to the news here, Ukraine and Brazil have already started developing Cyclone-5.

http://www.rbc.ua/rus/top/show/ukraina-i-braziliya-nachali-razrabotku-novogo-raketonositelya-03082012152700

I wonder where the money comes from and what is the main reason behind this work, while C4 is not even launched?

Also, according to the news, there is huge debt to launch site contractors and while employees are in strikes in Brazil, it seems like the governments gave the priority to the launch vehicle, not to the launch site.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #54 on: 08/06/2012 12:34 PM »
The problem with Cyclone-4 is that's it's payload capacity is too small for the comm market (1.6tonnes to GTO), for which the site is awesome. But it's a nice LV for the Earth Observation market. With 3.4tonnes to a 700km SSO orbit and a 4m fairing, you can launch quite a bit of payloads. So it will compete with Vega and Rockot.
It does uses some extremely nasty fuels, and the Brazilians are getting almost zero technology into it. So it's more like a useful first step, but it's not really a great project long term.
The new Boeing 702LP platform might have shaken them up a bit. If you can get a 2.1tonnes payload to GTO, then they could get into the small comm satellite market. And let's remember that a 2.1tonnes 702SP is sort of equivalent to a 3.5tonne liquid fuel sate, so it's at least 1/3 of the market. Since they can launch at something like 5 degrees (alcantara is at less than 3), the SEP phase would be mostly circularization. If they can simultaneously increase payload to GTO by 30% and put some Brazilian technology, Cyclone 5 might happen. After all, the Brazilians have already stated that they won't take the Estrella do Sul project high enough to compete with Cyclone 4.
I still doubt a bit because currently the market or small satellites is going to cheaper multi manifest rockets (like Ariane 5, Proton and Falcon 9)

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #55 on: 08/06/2012 01:50 PM »
The current Cyclone-4 capability can be augmented with SRBs to provide a much larger payload, per the user guide.

Also, the current price of Dnepr is rumored to be around $24 million for LEO payloads, so Cyclone-4 should be competitive for some LEO payloads. Of course, there continues the problem that Brazil never signed the MTCR, so US payloads may never fly on Cyclone-4.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #56 on: 08/06/2012 02:09 PM »
The current Cyclone-4 capability can be augmented with SRBs to provide a much larger payload, per the user guide.
Are you reading the v02 document? I did find that a 2tonnes to GTO version "is in development". But nothing about solid thrust augmentation. Youzhoe have lots of experience in automated launch procedures, but their systems are not very compatible with solid boosters. The alignment issues alone require vertical integration, and all their experience is on horizontal integration and automated pads. Which is a very difficult process to add solids.
I guess the Brazilians might want to add a CH4/LOX engine to the upper stage. But the MTCR might be a slight issue there, since Ukraine did signed it.

Quote
Also, the current price of Dnepr is rumored to be around $24 million for LEO payloads, so Cyclone-4 should be competitive for some LEO payloads. Of course, there continues the problem that Brazil never signed the MTCR, so US payloads may never fly on Cyclone-4.
I stated that they have a nice LV for Earth observation. But the MTCR issue and other political considerations might go into play. I think Brazil will eventually sign in. They are finding that almost everybody who has any significant technology has already signed, and they are more "customers" of such technology rather than exporters. We'll have to see also how the FX-2 and FX-3 contracts play out. Boeing has a lot of pull to give waivers and exceptions.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #57 on: 08/07/2012 12:56 AM »

Are you reading the v02 document? I did find that a 2tonnes to GTO version "is in development".

I have a user guide from Yuzhnoye that is about 10 years old.

Offline Salo Ukr

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #58 on: 08/07/2012 01:12 PM »

Offline Salo Ukr

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Re: Cyclone 4 from Alcantara, NET November 2013
« Reply #59 on: 08/10/2012 07:45 PM »

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