Author Topic: Masten Space Systems Update  (Read 255599 times)

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #860 on: 06/26/2017 03:42 PM »
Quote
SHINY new LCH4 GSE to support another round of testing-  25klbf & 5klbf engines . This is 1 of 2 under construction. #RocketsGetThirstyToo

https://twitter.com/mastenspace/status/879361391731253249

Offline GWH

Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #861 on: 08/11/2017 04:12 PM »
Masten Space's XL1-T lunar lander protoptype:
 http://masten.aero/vehicles-2/xl-1t/

Full up XL-1 vehicle is intended for 100kg payload.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2017 04:19 PM by GWH »

Online A_M_Swallow

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #862 on: 08/12/2017 05:33 AM »
I wonder when the XL-1T will be flying?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #863 on: 09/03/2017 06:28 PM »


Quote
3D printed rockets with Dave Masten - Orbit 10.32

Published on 3 Sep 2017
This week we bring on guest Dave Masten to get an update of the happenings at Masten Space Systems. In addition to an update on the XS-1 project, we also talk about how Dave and crew is using additive manufacturing (3D printing) to create entire rocket engines. Interview starts at 16:59

Online A_M_Swallow

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #864 on: 09/04/2017 02:20 AM »
Can an expendable XL-1 place the landing cradle for reusable XEUS?

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #865 on: 09/04/2017 09:32 AM »
The electric pumps are good for up to 5klbs engine, same as Rudiford. I did wonder how big an engine e-pump would drive.
Broadsword 25klbs engine use two turbopumps one LOX and for methane.

Dave did talk about smaller version of XS1 as RLV for smallsat market, didn't come up. Either on backburner or a secret project, I'm guessing later.
Xeus wasn't discussed but Bernard from ULA recent twitter state it was going well. If mid 20s lunar landing is going happen then NASA is going to human need lander, which maybe why ULA and Masten are pushing ahead.
« Last Edit: 09/04/2017 09:34 AM by TrevorMonty »

Offline J-V

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #866 on: 09/04/2017 10:03 AM »
Broadsword is going to have at least as good TWR as Merlin. Does anyone have an educated guess about ISP?

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #867 on: 09/04/2017 07:46 PM »
Broadsword is going to have at least as good TWR as Merlin. Does anyone have an educated guess about ISP?

Source for this? Because that would be pretty astounding, since it would be far better than any other engine than M1D.

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #868 on: 09/04/2017 08:16 PM »
Can an expendable XL-1 place the landing cradle for reusable XEUS?
Probably. Although I'm not sure a cradle would be worth the hassle for Xeus. It's a belly lander that only has to work in 1/6th G, so the gear won't have as large of a mass penalty. However, if they did want to use a cradle for Xeus, it would probably be easier to transport it there with a Xeus rather than a XL-1. Strap the cradle onto Xeus and use it as landing gear for the first landing, and then leave it behind for others to land in.
I tried it at home

Online savuporo

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #869 on: 09/04/2017 08:25 PM »
Broadsword is going to have at least as good TWR as Merlin. Does anyone have an educated guess about ISP?

Source for this? Because that would be pretty astounding, since it would be far better than any other engine than M1D.

In the interview above, at 38:10 Dave says "we are looking at putting Merlin to shame in terms of TWR", while talking about the advantages additive manufacturing and specifically some interesting materials it enables.

EDIT: There is another short snippet at 52:00 talking about Broadsword plans.

But then, Masten has been around for quite a while and said many things.
« Last Edit: 09/04/2017 08:28 PM by savuporo »
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Online QuantumG

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #870 on: 09/04/2017 08:51 PM »
The electric pumps are good for up to 5klbs engine, same as Rudiford. I did wonder how big an engine e-pump would drive.
Broadsword 25klbs engine use two turbopumps one LOX and for methane.

Just a note, Broadsword isn't electric pump fed, that's a separate project.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? The slowest possible.

Online A_M_Swallow

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #871 on: 09/05/2017 03:05 AM »
Re: The lander that needs its electronics repairing before it can fly again but since it is over 3 years old Masten Systems cannot get the parts. Are any of the radiation hard computer boards being sold for cubesats up to flight quality?

Are the electrical and logical interfaces between the electronic systems and mechanical systems sufficiently defined that the processor board can simply be replaced with the latest design?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #872 on: 09/05/2017 03:06 AM »
Putting Merlin to shame T/W-wise...

...since Merlin is about 180-200 T/W on the dev-side, might they be talking 250-300? That'd make a fantastic SSTO engine.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline jongoff

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #873 on: 09/06/2017 05:19 AM »
Putting Merlin to shame T/W-wise...

...since Merlin is about 180-200 T/W on the dev-side, might they be talking 250-300? That'd make a fantastic SSTO engine.

I thought they had previously been saying they were shooting for Merlin-class T/W with this engine, not "putting it to shame". Not sure if they have some new technology pieces or if Dave was being hyperbolic. Either way, I think that they're working on some cool technology bits with this engine that I'm really excited to see get funded.

~Jon

Online hkultala

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #874 on: 09/06/2017 05:59 AM »
Putting Merlin to shame T/W-wise...

...since Merlin is about 180-200 T/W on the dev-side, might they be talking 250-300? That'd make a fantastic SSTO engine.

SSTO for Moon?

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #875 on: 09/06/2017 09:55 PM »
Interesting Video.

I was a bit flumoxed when he said Broadsword has 2 turbo pumps without interpropellant seals (at 52:15) but then he explained Broadsword is a dual expander.

The only one of these I'm aware of was the gimballed segmented plug nozzle design made for the USAFRL by a Rocketdyne team in the mid 70's. Also around 25Klbs but in LH2/LO2.

As for Masten's claims for high T/W ratio wellll. ..

Masten's design (like some of Armadillo Aerospaces were) is Aluminum and the turbines are driven by "hot" propellants from the cooling system. But from the RL10 "hot" can mean in the 100c+ range. That makes Aluminum a viable material for both the pumps and the rotors, and the combustion chamber.

[EDIT. In fact that was very conservative. This document

https://pslhistory.grc.nasa.gov/PSL_Assets/History/C%20Rockets/Design%20Report%20for%20RL-10-A-3-3.pdf

Is a very nice breakdown of the various valves and major sub assemblies (and their weights) of an RL10 version. 

Drive turbine inlet temperatures range from 316R to 387R. So "hottest" is in fact 215K or -58c. Well within the Aluminum range. ]
In round numbers Aluminum is 35% of the density of the super alloys or high temperature steels normally used to make gas generators, thrust chambers and drive turbines.

Add in perhaps some carbon fiber in highly stressed areas and a lower chamber pressure and you have the potential for an engine that might not have the Isp of Raptor, but could have a better T/W ratio. [EDIT obviously a lot of it is down to how much of GG or SC design can be replaced by Aluminum in the DE design. Since he said they are OK with LOX cooling in the CC my instinct is "quite a lot" ]

Now if he'd said "make an oxidizer rich staged combustion cycle engine in aluminum" that would have implausible.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 12:08 PM by john smith 19 »
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #876 on: 09/07/2017 12:47 AM »
If you address the minimum gauge issues with smaller engines using better manufacturing or design tricks, then in principle a small motor should get higher thrust to weight than a large one until minimum gauge issues bite again.
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Offline john smith 19

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #877 on: 09/08/2017 05:07 PM »
If you address the minimum gauge issues with smaller engines using better manufacturing or design tricks, then in principle a small motor should get higher thrust to weight than a large one until minimum gauge issues bite again.
I think that was part of the concept of the MIT MEMS "Microrocket" project but they were targeting something like a 100at and only managed about 12.  :( I think U. Mich had better luck with a MEMS rotary engine. Perhaps a better choice than trying to scale down a turbopump?

IIRC the theoretical T/W (MIT project) was something like 1200:1  :o

Obviously the Isp remains whatever it is given the chamber temp and pressure and the propellant combo you're using, but with a T/W ratio > 6x better than the best Kerolox engines that changes the breakdown of stage weight by quite a lot, to trade as the designer sees fit.
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #878 on: 09/11/2017 05:26 PM »
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Photo of our assembled 2nd gen 25k [lbf] engine. Only 3 pieces all AM'd. LOX/LCH4 dual expander.

https://twitter.com/mastenspace/status/907284475528175616

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Masten Space Systems Update
« Reply #879 on: 09/11/2017 09:09 PM »
Here biofuel version.

Masten Space Systems (@mastenspace) tweeted at 7:03 AM on Tue, Sep 12, 2017:
https://t.co/MJBWd6V7Vh
(https://twitter.com/mastenspace/status/907318771156533248?s=03)

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