Author Topic: $700m gap threatens major delays to Ares test flights/development  (Read 30613 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

Something to make you feel all warm and fuzzy - not :(

About three more CxP articles in works too.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5335

There's several schedule/manifest charts in the presentation on L2. Here's a screenshot of one, which might help:
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Offline hyper_snyper

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Money, money everywhere and not a dime for NASA.

Offline Jeff Lerner

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...it's "Jump the Shark" time for the Cx program.....

Offline haywoodfloyd

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This is truly, truly sad.
It harkens back to the development days of the Shuttle when the budget kept getting squeezed until all we had left was a vehicle which was a shadow of its former self.
The politicians have not learned a thing.
I am dismayed at their collective lack of foresight with respect to a viable Manned Space Program.
Most of them don't even care and are paying lip service to MSF, contributing just enough to keep the patient alive, which, they think, gives the impression that they are in favour of a Manned Space Program.
It gives them something to "tick off" on their list of things to do.
Shameful...just shameful.




Offline edkyle99

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Nice article.  

This is starting to reek.  A ripening, odorous fiasco of the A-12 "Flying Dorito" variety.

- Ed Kyle

Offline stockman

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Quote
Other notes of interest in the presentation relates to the lunar element of the Constellation plan, with a change to the Ares V-Y test flight, an unmanned Orion 13 mission that will be a fly-by of the moon
 


I know there are a ton of problems and disappointments here but symbolically this one strikes me the most. 40 years ago we DARED to launch a vehicle for only the second time with a manned crew to swing around the moon and come home safely.   40 years later and then some by the time it actually happens, the best we can do is launch an unmanned flyby of the moon with a new vehicle.

This more than anything in my mind shows how risk adverse society in general has become. There is no stomach for losses and no stomach for taking bold steps anymore.

We are never getting off this rock in my lifetime....   :frown:

One Percent for Space!!!

Offline savuporo

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hyper_snyper - 18/1/2008  5:35 AM
Money, money everywhere and not a dime for NASA.
More like money money money for NASA and all down the toilet.

Suppose an extra ten billion was added to NASA budget for this year and for the rest of the future. You think that Ares I would somehow magically fly tomorrow ?
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Jim

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stockman - 18/1/2008  11:00 AM

I know there are a ton of problems and disappointments here but symbolically this one strikes me the most. 40 years ago we DARED to launch a vehicle for only the second time with a manned crew to swing around the moon and come home safely.   4

Apollo 8 was the 3rd flight of the Saturn V and the 6th flight of a full up Apollo spacecraft.  Apollo 6 was to be similar to Orion 13.

Offline edkyle99

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In my view, the most telling sentence in the article is the following.  

"... Ares I's roll past missions to the ISS is under evaluation due to performance issues."

If I understand this correctly, NASA may now be planning to spend billions to develop a launch vehicle, and the big infrastructure to build and fly it, while simultaneously planning NOT to use it!

If true, this would be a fiasco large enough to become a campaign issue - large enough to foment  Congressional anger - perhaps large enough to end the program entirely.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline pierre

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So they still need more than five and a half years from now for the first real Ares-I unmanned, suborbital test flight?

Guess it's not too late to switch to something better, then.

Offline stockman

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Quote
Jim - 18/1/2008  11:05 AM

Quote
stockman - 18/1/2008  11:00 AM

I know there are a ton of problems and disappointments here but symbolically this one strikes me the most. 40 years ago we DARED to launch a vehicle for only the second time with a manned crew to swing around the moon and come home safely.   4

Apollo 8 was the 3rd flight of the Saturn V and the 6th flight of a full up Apollo spacecraft
 

thanks for the correction Jim... My OLD memory is not as reliable as it once was. The basic point remains. At the time Apollo 8 was a major step up and had its share of risk associated with it with a sooner rather than later shot at leaving Earth Orbit manned.

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Offline HarryM

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I noticed that line too, pretty amazing. ("role past ISS questioned")

Offline Jim

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When I just typed out Orion 13, I realized why it is unmanned.

Don't put it past NASA to change the name of the mission.

while working on the 13th Spacehab flight is was referred to as the mission after the 12th flight or the mission before the 14th flight.

Offline Chris Bergin

Quote
edkyle99 - 18/1/2008  4:11 PM

In my view, the most telling sentence in the article is the following.  

"... Ares I's roll past missions to the ISS is under evaluation due to performance issues."

If I understand this correctly, NASA may now be planning to spend billions to develop a launch vehicle, and the big infrastructure to build and fly it, while simultaneously planning NOT to use it!

If true, this would be a fiasco large enough to become a campaign issue - large enough to foment  Congressional anger - perhaps large enough to end the program entirely.

 - Ed Kyle

Thanks for your previous comment, it is appreciated! On the above, this relates to what the MLAS is all about - and as more and more associated information comes in, it's the only LAS that works for both Ares I and V. The current LAS and ALAS are no gos for Ares V. That's not an assumption based comment, it's actually being mentioned as so by those working on it (and it's a big, big team on MLAS).

There's more to it on the HRing of the big vehicle, but that's another article.....but to be clear, as of right now, they are still 1.5.
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Offline haywoodfloyd

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Quote
savuporo - 18/1/2008  11:05 AM

Quote
hyper_snyper - 18/1/2008  5:35 AM
Money, money everywhere and not a dime for NASA.
More like money money money for NASA and all down the toilet.

Suppose an extra ten billion was added to NASA budget for this year and for the rest of the future. You think that Ares I would somehow magically fly tomorrow ?

That is a gross over-eggageration.

Offline NASA_LaRC_SP

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Edit, Chris beat me to it on MLAS.

Offline Antares

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savuporo - 18/1/2008  10:05 AM
Suppose an extra ten billion was added to NASA budget for this year and for the rest of the future. You think that Ares I would somehow magically fly tomorrow ?
No, the thrust oscillation would still kill the astronauts.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline Yegor

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"Altair development - slipping two years"

Does it mean that the Lunar Landing is 2022 now?


Offline Analyst

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haywoodfloyd - 18/1/2008  4:43 PM

It harkens back to the development days of the Shuttle when the budget kept getting squeezed until all we had left was a vehicle which was a shadow of its former self.

It is worse than that. The Shuttle is not a shadow of its former self. It has amazing capabilities, was cutting edge technology (SSME, TPS etc.) and we finally got it only 3 years later than planned. What can we expect today? Much less.

Analyst

Offline Chris Bergin

Quote
Yegor - 18/1/2008  4:39 PM

"Altair development - slipping two years"

Does it mean that the Lunar Landing is 2022 now?

Nope. Read the article :) Orion to ISS still March, 2015. Orion lunar return still 2019.
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