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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Mars => Topic started by: gongora on 09/28/2017 12:51 PM

Title: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: gongora on 09/28/2017 12:51 PM
[ Edit: There is a thread for the Reddit AMA Follow-Up (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43980.0) on Oct. 14, 2017 ]


Elon Musk will be giving a presentation to update his plans for a Mars vehicle architecture.

Date: September 29, 2017
Time: 04:30 UTC (2:00 pm Local, 5:30 am in England, 12:30 am EDT, 09:30 pm PDT on the 28th)
Location: IAC 2017 in Adelaide, Australia

Streaming Information:
The presentation will be streamed by SpaceX.

2017 Presentation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc)

Quote
Tweet from Elon Musk (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/912259150175813633):
Major improvements & some unexpected applications to be unveiled on Friday at @IAC2017 in Australia


NSF Articles Of High Relevance:

 [March. 7, 2014] SpaceX advances drive for Mars rocket via Raptor power (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/03/spacex-advances-drive-mars-rocket-raptor-power/)
 [Aug. 29, 2014] Battle of the Heavyweight Rockets – SLS could face Exploration Class rival (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/08/battle-heavyweight-rockets-sls-exploration-rival/)
 [Sept. 27, 2016]SpaceX reveals ITS Mars game changer via colonization plan (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/09/spacex-reveals-mars-game-changer-colonization-plan/)
 [Jul. 24, 2017] Includes Subscale BFR on 39A (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/07/installation-flame-deflector-sls-begins-39b/)

 Major NSF L2 Resources:

 L2 Level: Evaluations And Renderings - Thread 2 (Includes link to Thread 1) (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41602.0)
 ITS Cargo Modules AIAA - by the Author (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42877.0)
 Rocket and Spacecraft Traj Sim (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37599.0)
 The Evolution of the Interplanetary Transport System Overview (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42808.0)
 SpaceX McGregor, includes Raptor Testing and photos (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34957.0)
 Master All SpaceX Pads Updates, Photos and Status, including for BFR (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42426.0)


NSF Public Threads:
 
   Discussion before the 2017 presentation:

      IAC 2017 -- ITS v0.2 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43035.0)
      9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43427.0)

   
   Discussion after the 2016 presentation:
 
      ITS Propulsion – The evolution of the SpaceX Raptor engine (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41363.0)
      ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41304.0)


Elon's presentation at IAC 2016:

Elon's presentation at IAC 2016 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Uyfqi_TE8)

SpaceX: ITS Video from 2016:

SpaceX: ITS Video from 2016 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qo78R_yYFA)
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: gongora on 09/28/2017 12:51 PM
LIVE Webcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc

Transcript is up at http://shitelonsays.com/transcript/making-life-multiplanetary-elon-musk-adelaide-iac-2017-09-29

Corrections, however trivial, are welcome.  PM me or join the site and make them yourself.

~Kirk
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 01:42 AM
This will be like a launch. This will be update only.
Discussion will be here:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43035.new#new

Then a new thread for discussion after the event.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 02:52 AM
So.....a Moon Base is part of this update. Notice we get to see the crane egress we've all been assuming since IAC 2016.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZm88uhg1yN/
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 03:07 AM
Mars City:

Opposite of Earth. Dawn and dusk sky are blue on Mars and day sky is red.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZm88uhg1yN/
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:18 AM
Webcast is live. Remember, updates only. I don't mind us doubling up on screenshots as it's better than missing one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc

Everything else in the discussion thread.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:38 AM
Here we go.  Introductions.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:38 AM
And Elon is being introduced (again) by a former massive rival.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:40 AM
Elon:

Fundamentally, future more exciting if we're a multi-planet species.  You want to be inspired.

You want to think that the future is going to be better than than past.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:41 AM
Searching for right name.  Code name is BFR.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:41 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:41 AM
He thinks they've figured out how to pay for it.  "That's very important."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: meekGee on 09/29/2017 04:41 AM
Back to the BFR "code name", not a final name :)
Starting out with the "why" of spacefaring.
Emphasis on "how do we get there".
Opening slide is a landing on Mars.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:42 AM
How to pay for it....

Smaller vehicle.  Sub-scale BRF confirmed. 

Small BRF can do "greater Earth orbit activity."

We want to make F9 and FH and Dragon redundant.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: meekGee on 09/29/2017 04:42 AM
Wow.  Clearly stated - ITSy will replace F9/FH
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:42 AM
If they can make F9, FH, and Dragon redundant, all resources can be applied to sub-scale BFR.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:42 AM
"Now we think we've worked out how to pay for it. A smaller vehicle. One that can do everything. Replace F9, FH and Dragon"
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:42 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:43 AM
BFR cryo tank successfully tested to design specs... and tested to failure.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:43 AM
Boom video.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:43 AM
"Good idea how to create carbon-fiber tank.  "That's key to developing this big rocket.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:44 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:44 AM
Raptor will be highest thrust-to-weight ratio engine ever.


1,200 seconds across 42 main engine tests.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:44 AM
Raptors would fire for 40secs to land a vehicle on Mars.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: meekGee on 09/29/2017 04:44 AM
Says the 12m test tank was pressurized to design pressure, but failed just above that.
Design goal for Raptor 300 Bar
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:45 AM
Propulsive landing:

To land on Moon/Mars, you have to get propulsive landings right.  That's what we've been practicing with F9.  16 successful landings in a row.

That's without redundancy.  F9 lands on single engine.  BFR would have multi-engine out landing capability.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:45 AM
Aiming to get propulsive landing perfect. (That'll be for the launch mount return).

BFR won't need legs.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:46 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:46 AM
"We can get to landing reliability on par with safest commercial airliners."

We believe propulsive landing precise is so great that it will land back on its launch mount.  It won't need landing legs.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:47 AM
Whoa.  30 Falcon launches anticipated next year.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:48 AM
We need a high launch rate for BRF and the plan for Mars and orbital refueling.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: WindnWar on 09/29/2017 04:48 AM
200 bar for current Raptor tests, flight pressures of 250 with a goal of 300 bar.

That's 2900 psi current, 3625 for flight chamber pressure, and 4351psi for their goal chamber pressure.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:49 AM
Next key tech is automated rendezvous and docking.  This has to be very high precision for propellant transfer.

Dragon 2 will do completely automated berthing tech.  Won't need Canada arm like Dragon 1.  "Just press 'go' and it will dock."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:49 AM
Dragons are also helping perfect heat shield tech.

Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:51 AM
We started off with a few people who really didn't know how to make rockets. I ended up being chief engineer because we couldn't get anyone to join. I messed up the first three launches.  Fortunately, the fourth launch worked or that would have been it for SpaceX.  Fate liked us that day.

Today is the 9th anniversary of the first successful SpaceX launch.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:52 AM
Falcon 1 small compared to Falcon 9.

F9 is 30x more payload than F1 and reuse of first stage (and hopefully soon of the fairing).  Hoping we can get ot 80% reuse of the F9 systems.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:52 AM
Falcon Heavy "hoping for still the end of the year."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:54 AM
Beginning serious development of BFR.

BFR is fully reusable.

150t to LOE on BFR v. 30t to LEO for FH.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:54 AM
BFR is 106m tall.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:55 AM
Sub-scale BFR - 31 Raptor engines for 5,400t lifting 4,400t vehicle.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:55 AM
There's the 9m BFR.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:55 AM
Crew module:

48m length
85t dry mass
150t max ascent payload
9m diameter
Paylaod return mass 50t
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:55 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:56 AM
Think of BFR crew/cargo vehicle as if Dragon and Stage 2 never separated and operated together.

"You can fit a whole stack of Falcon 91s in the payload bay of BFR."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 04:56 AM
shots
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:57 AM
Talking about delta wing for control of pitch angle despite wide range of payloads and atmospheric densities.

needed to generalize capability of BFR to land "anywhere in the solar system."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:57 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 04:58 AM
a 380
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:58 AM
825 m3 - bigger than pressurized area of A380 aircraft.

In Mars transit config, 40 cabins and large common areas, central storage, galley, and solar storm shelter.

2-3 ppl per cabin.  About a 100 people per flight to Mars.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 04:59 AM
40 cabins for crew transport. Could have five to six in a cabin, but expect 2 to 3. 100 people to Mars. Entertainment area. Solar Storm Shelter, etc.

And the business end:
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:59 AM
Sub-cooled methane and oxygen is the propellant.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 04:59 AM
10-12% density increase when you sub-cool this props.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:00 AM
Header tank will be used to feed engines at landing at first.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:00 AM
tanks en gine
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:00 AM
Ship engine section:

4 vac Raptor and 2 sea-level Raptors.  All can gimbal.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:01 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:01 AM
Can land with either one of the two center engines.

Both will lit, but it one fails, BFR can land with just one sea-level Raptor engine.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:02 AM
New refueling process from the tanker.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:02 AM
Refueling - ships mate at the rear, same mating interface with Booster.

Use control thruster to accelerate in the direction you want to transfer propellant toward.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:03 AM
BFR has more capability to LEO than Saturn V -- even with full reusability AND FAR CHEAPER.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:03 AM
transfer
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:04 AM
Performance vs costs. Heavily selected chart, however.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:05 AM
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:06 AM
refillls
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:06 AM
Value of orbital refueling:

If you just fly BFR to orbit, you'll get 150t to LEO and have no fuel to go anywhere else.

But if you refuel tanks all the way to the top, you can get 150t all the way to Mars.

If tanker has high reuse factor, than the price drops.  LOX and Liquid Methane are very inexpensive.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:06 AM
150 mt to LEO. Then refil to get 150 mt to Mars.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:07 AM
So... how do we pay for this system....

This was a profound breakthrough.  If we can build a system the makes our own products redundant, than all the resources for F9 and FH can be applied to one system.

Some of our customers are conservative, want to see BFR fly several times first.

Will have a stock of F9s and FHs so customers can keep using those if they desire.

We will then move on to BFR and pay for it by contracts for sat launches and servicing the ISS.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:08 AM
The key to paying for all of this is to kill Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy. Go to one system for everything. Will build a large stock room of "old" rockets and then only build BFR from then onwards.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Norm38 on 09/29/2017 05:09 AM
Cargo version with cargo bay confirmed.  Looks to be unmanned.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:09 AM
have a stock of F9 and dragons, turn resources to building BFR, can do it with sat rev and ISS
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:09 AM
For BFR launching sats, we can send 9m diameter objects into orbit.   We could launch a Hubble with a mirror three times larger than Hubble's current mirror.

We can launch multiple sats in one launch.

We can use it to retrieve sats and bring them back -- clean up LEO.

Can also service the Space Station.

"I know it looks a little big compared to the Station.  But Shuttle was big.  It'll work."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:09 AM
a little big
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:09 AM
Oh wow..
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:10 AM
Moon. No need for ISRU prop.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:10 AM
MOON:

Lunar surface mission w/ no prop production on the moon.

High elliptic-orbit re-filling.  Than go all the way to the moon and back without refueling on the moon.

That will allow for the creation of Moon Base Alpha.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:11 AM
Crane to lower cargo.  "It's not very complicated."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:11 AM
"It's 2017.  We should have a lunar base by now.  What's going on."
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:11 AM
moonbase alpha

2017, where's my moonbase?
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:12 AM
Needs prop ISRU on Mars.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:13 AM
mars
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:13 AM
MARS:

Being a multi-planet species beats the hell out of being a single planet species.

Mars plan is same as before.

Refuel in Earth orbit.  Go to Mars.  Land.  Produce fuel on Mars from CO2 and H2O to make Methane and Ox prop.

Long term... this fuel production can be done on Earth.

Use solar power to extract CO2 from the air.  Same thing we do on Mars we can do on Mars.

Need to build prop depot on Mars.  Because Mars has lower gravity, you can go from surface of Mars with 20-50t payload all the way back to Earth.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:15 AM
Mars atmospheric entry will have ablative element to heat shield.  But heat shield will be multi-use.  Then supersonic retro propulsion... and landing.

Over 99% of energy removed by Mars' atmosphere during entry.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:15 AM
BFR cargo missions begin in 2022 (not a typo, but Musk admits it's aspirational).
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:15 AM
Construction of first BFR begins Q2 of next year, 2018.

Complete ship and be ready to launch in 5 years.

5 years seems like a long time for Musk.


OH.... AND THAT'S TO MARS!  2 CARGO BFRs to Mars in 2022.  And 2024, 4 BFRs.

First two find water.  Second four construct prop depot.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:16 AM
sims
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:16 AM
Mars Entry.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:17 AM
Red Dragon replaced by Red BFR. Construction of the first ship in six to nine months. Launch in five years.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:17 AM
He's showing the Martian city!
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:18 AM
Then, over time, you know, terra forming Mars and making it a really nice place to be.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:18 AM
goals
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:19 AM
Mars City lol....damn.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:19 AM
"That's quite a beautiful picture.  On Mars, the sky is blue at daybreak and sunset."

But wait, there's more...

What if you take BFR as an Earth-transport craft... going from one place on Earth to another with BFR.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:20 AM
New York to Shanghai in 39mins!  Most long-distance trips in 30mins.  Anywhere on Earth in 1hr.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:21 AM
Wooooooooah.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 09/29/2017 05:21 AM
If we're building BFR to go to Mars, why not use it to go to other places on Earth, too.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 05:22 AM
That's over.

Well.

Yeah!

;D

Again, updates only here. Discussion thread for open mouths. Chris G with the new article next.
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:23 AM
intercity
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 09/29/2017 05:24 AM
implies...
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: catdlr on 09/29/2017 05:51 AM
BFR | Earth to Earth

SpaceX
Published on Sep 28, 2017

The BFR will be capable of taking people from any city to any other city on Earth in under one hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqE-ultsWt0T?=001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqE-ultsWt0
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: catdlr on 09/29/2017 05:57 AM
just repeating the original web link just in case:

Making Life Multiplanetary

SpaceX
Streamed live starts at 42 minutes into the video.

This week at the International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Adelaide, Australia, SpaceX CEO and Lead Designer Elon Musk will provide an update to his 2016 presentation regarding the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars.

You can watch the talk live on this page on Thursday, September 28th  at 9:30 pm PDT, or Friday, September 29 at 2:00 p.m. ACST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc?t=001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: mlindner on 09/29/2017 06:23 AM
Quote from: Elon Musk
Fly to most places on Earth in under 30 mins and anywhere in under 60. Cost per seat should be about the same as full fare economy in an aircraft. Forgot to mention that.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZnVfWxgdLe/

WOW!
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 09/29/2017 06:47 AM
High resolution images from Spacex instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZnSZqaFKQe/
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2017 07:42 AM
Chris Gebhardt's feature article!

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/09/the-moon-mars-earth-musk-updates-bfr-plans/
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/29/2017 08:58 AM
Even higher-res SpaceX pics!

Quote
BFR is capable of transporting satellites to orbit, crew and cargo to the @Space_Station and completing missions to the Moon and Mars.

https://twitter.com/spacex/status/913632410549366784
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/29/2017 03:04 PM
I imagine this is on a discussion thread somewhere (haven’t had time to catch up yet) but think worth posting here for reference:

Quote
Fly to most places on Earth in under 30 mins and anywhere in under 60. Cost per seat should be… instagram.com/p/BZnVfWxgdLe/ [about the same as full fare economy in an aircraft. Forgot to mention that.]
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/913649379281534976

Quote
How do you make the high g-forces of rocket liftoff comfortable for every day travel? Will it just become something we get used to?
https://twitter.com/meltingice/status/913772616363716610

Quote
Assuming max acceleration of 2 to 3 g's, but in a comfortable direction. Will feel like a mild to moderate amusement park ride on ascent and then smooth, peaceful & silent in zero gravity for most of the trip until landing.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/913775198423408640
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: kdhilliard on 10/01/2017 04:13 PM
Transcript is up at http://shitelonsays.com/transcript/making-life-multiplanetary-elon-musk-adelaide-iac-2017-09-29

Corrections, however trivial, are welcome.  PM me or join the site and make them yourself.

~Kirk
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: DOCinCT on 10/03/2017 09:02 PM
Transcript is up at http://shitelonsays.com/transcript/making-life-multiplanetary-elon-musk-adelaide-iac-2017-09-29

Corrections, however trivial, are welcome.  PM me or join the site and make them yourself.

~Kirk
With Kirk's permission, a conversion to PDF format (with page numbers, couple of cleaned up typos)
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: DOCinCT on 10/08/2017 02:59 PM
There seem to be two cutaway view renderings to the spaceship one with the oxygen fuel tank just below a single cargo deck and one with two cargo decks.
Any idea as to which is the "correct" one?
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: Lar on 10/08/2017 03:18 PM
Discussion posts moved to the correct place, current discussion thread

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43920.0
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: tea monster on 10/12/2017 08:36 PM
From the look of it, all the bulkheads and tanks appear to be in the same locations.

Initially, I too assumed it was cargo, but packed around the top of the LOX tank.

I took one of the other slides, the 'Refilling' one, and blew it up to get a better look. Based on that, I think that the space around the top of the LOX tank is an equipment bay. This could be the life-support machinery and tankage.

I've blown up and enhanced part of the image to make the structures inside the area clearer. They do appear to be a collection of boxes and spherical tanks. The spherical structures resemble tanks more than regular cargo, that leads me to believe that the area is an equipment bay, rather than a storage area.
(https://i.imgur.com/NF8jhwJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: kdhilliard on 10/21/2017 12:31 AM
SpaceX has put up a large (24.4 MB) PDF containing the slides from the presentation.
http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/making_life_multiplanetary-2017.pdf

~Kirk
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/21/2017 11:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAkmP00QPJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAkmP00QPJg)
Title: Re: Elon Musk Presentation, IAC 2017 - Sep. 29, 2017 (0430 UTC)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/21/2017 01:24 PM
Higher-res version now on SpaceX website.

The Mars page has now been significantly expanded to include the various videos, animations etc from Elon’s recent IAC presentation: http://www.spacex.com/mars (http://www.spacex.com/mars)