I'm sorry for dragging it off topic.Back to NTRS shall we?What's the difference between "classified" and ITAR?I assume that NASA contractors with access to information have to sign something that says they will take what they've seen to the grave.
I just tried DTIC Online with seemingly no restrictions......
Quote from: Art LeBrun on 03/23/2013 03:08 pmI just tried DTIC Online with seemingly no restrictions......Did you actually download a paper, as opposed to view an abstract?
Quote from: spectre9 on 03/24/2013 12:08 amIn Australia we don't suffer from the same China paranoia as the USA.You mean our government sold out to the Chinese decades ago.. there's still plenty of China "paranoia" in the mining industry (aka, the industry in Australia).
In Australia we don't suffer from the same China paranoia as the USA.
ITAR can apply to both classified and unclassified data.As such, all this discussion of "classified material" is irrelevant.
Quote from: rdale on 03/20/2013 01:38 pm...No, it's not that bad at all compared to what could happen. NASA is under no "requirement" to put all that stuff online.Yes it is. A requirement from me, a taxpayer, to have access to the research that I have helped pay for.Wolf does not fund NASA, /I/ (and the rest of the American people) fund NASA. NASA is not Wolf's plaything.QuoteCan you do the same for many other government agencies?Yes. NIH publishes all its funded research online. The Executive Branch is pushing for all non-classified research to be published freely online, so the American people have access to what they are paying for.
...No, it's not that bad at all compared to what could happen. NASA is under no "requirement" to put all that stuff online.
Can you do the same for many other government agencies?
Quote from: spectre9 on 03/24/2013 07:03 amI'm sorry for dragging it off topic.Back to NTRS shall we?What's the difference between "classified" and ITAR?I assume that NASA contractors with access to information have to sign something that says they will take what they've seen to the grave. Psssst. [Looks over shoulder.] I just downloaded this report from 1962:"Technical Report No. 32-457""Mariner Spacecraft Packaging"PM me, and I'll send ya a copy. But not a word to anyone else, ya hear? This is the kind of stuff that Mr. Wolf doesn't want Americans to see. That's why he had NTRS shut down.
I could not agree more here my tax dollars helped pay for this research I have a right to view it.
{snip}My understanding is that the retrospective application of ITAR to all the space stuff we love is a result of the Loral/Long March fiasco of the 1990s. But having read some of the details of that I remain unconvinced the tech transfer in that case really helped the Chinese military - and did something really change between the Cold War and now, or were we making a huge mistake in the 1960s when we published this stuff in journals, or at least put declassified technical notes in public access places like the MIT library?
Quote from: Proponent on 03/24/2013 02:28 pmQuote from: Art LeBrun on 03/23/2013 03:08 pmI just tried DTIC Online with seemingly no restrictions......Did you actually download a paper, as opposed to view an abstract?I did. Well, more than one. I've been doing a lot of downloading from many places during the past week... Oops -- false alarm, sorry. I was trying do download a paper of which only an abstract is available from DTIC. I was confused.
Anyone want to take bets/do a poll on how long it takes to get NTRS back online? With 300,000+ documents, I'm guessing that they'll either back down from reviewing everything, or we're talking over a year.I wish there was some way to vote against id10t congresspeople in other states.~Jon
There is. Political contributions to their opponents, both primaries and general elections.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 03/25/2013 11:28 pmThere is. Political contributions to their opponents, both primaries and general elections.And is there a guarantee that the opponent is any better?
Sadly not true (a moral right perhaps, a legal right no). You have a right to vote for politicians who will pass open-access laws to give you that right.(as well as pushing for a broader pushback against the national-security/TSA state). But so far, this hasn't become an election issue.My understanding is that the retrospective application of ITAR to all the space stuff we love is a result of the Loral/Long March fiasco of the 1990s. But having read some of the details of that I remain unconvinced the tech transfer in that case really helped the Chinese military - and did something really change between the Cold War and now, or were we making a huge mistake in the 1960s when we published this stuff in journals, or at least put declassified technical notes in public access places like the MIT library?The idea that a document can be unclassified but you can't legally take itout of the country seems profoundly unrealistic in the 21st century. Either it is out in the public, in which case visiting foreign nationals will see it (and ftp it home if needed) or it is not, and therefore 'secret' in the generic sense of the word, whether the US govt has labelled it 'unclassified' or not.