Hawthorne isn't very practical even for 5.2m diameter stages. Beyond 5.2 meters then its downright 100% illogical.Its been acknowledged by SpaceX a thicker rocket would most likely be built in Brownsville, near Boca Chica and much easier to transport to Florida instead of having to go the long way through the Panama canal.Hawthorne likely would only build engines, sub assemblies, specialty parts.The model of building rockets in Hawthorne made sense with high volume construction of road transportable stages. 5.2m, 8m or 10m rockets will not be high volume nor road transportable.
ITS only has about 4.1 km/s after launch, even with no payload.
ITS would probably do better launching from either Florida or Texas so manufacturing on an east coast somewhere would be better than long trip through the Panama canal.
Quote from: spacenut on 05/24/2017 10:29 pmITS would probably do better launching from either Florida or Texas so manufacturing on an east coast somewhere would be better than long trip through the Panama canal. I think we are missing the potential of a real RLV.
It has been pointed out before that even the F9 is capable of single stage to orbit if it isn't carrying any payload. Airliners are occasionally flown without passengers to reposition. If true RLV performance is achieved, and costs aren't a lot more that the cost of fuel and launch staff, fly the booster to where it is needed.Build at Hawthorne (or wherever). Launch into a minimal orbit.
Wait for an appropriate number of orbits for the earth to turn below the booster. Then bring it down at Florida, Boca Chica, or where ever you will need to base the booster for its future flights.True airliner-like RLV changes many things.
I think we are missing the potential of a real RLV.It has been pointed out before that even the F9 is capable of single stage to orbit if it isn't carrying any payload. Airliners are occasionally flown without passengers to reposition. If true RLV performance is achieved, and costs aren't a lot more that the cost of fuel and launch staff, fly the booster to where it is needed.Build at Hawthorne (or wherever). Launch into a minimal orbit. Wait for an appropriate number of orbits for the earth to turn below the booster. Then bring it down at Florida, Boca Chica, or where ever you will need to base the booster for its future flights.True airliner-like RLV changes many things.
Odd thread. So many theories, and yet what it boils down to is....Make the hull/large composite parts at the launch site, everything else that is road transportable can be made where most convenient. Hawthorne for engines, avionics etc. Just bolt in to the hull at the launch site.Why would they do anything else?
Quote from: JamesH65 on 05/25/2017 08:55 amOdd thread. So many theories, and yet what it boils down to is....Make the hull/large composite parts at the launch site, everything else that is road transportable can be made where most convenient. Hawthorne for engines, avionics etc. Just bolt in to the hull at the launch site.Why would they do anything else?This is exactly what Musk replied to Helodriver at IAC.And it has nothing to do with the intermediate
Quote from: spacenut on 05/24/2017 10:29 pmITS would probably do better launching from either Florida or Texas so manufacturing on an east coast somewhere would be better than long trip through the Panama canal. I think we are missing the potential of a real RLV.It has been pointed out before that even the F9 is capable of single stage to orbit if it isn't carrying any payload. Airliners are occasionally flown without passengers to reposition. If true RLV performance is achieved, and costs aren't a lot more that the cost of fuel and launch staff, fly the booster to where it is needed.Build at Hawthorne (or wherever). Launch into a minimal orbit. Wait for an appropriate number of orbits for the earth to turn below the booster. Then bring it down at Florida, Boca Chica, or where ever you will need to base the booster for its future flights.True airliner-like RLV changes many things.
...That's because there isn't one.
Quote from: JamesH65 on 05/25/2017 11:23 am...That's because there isn't one.IYO
Quote from: AncientU on 05/25/2017 12:02 pmQuote from: JamesH65 on 05/25/2017 11:23 am...That's because there isn't one.IYO Raptor 9 is redundant with falcon heavy.A Raptor 1, though...
A 9 Raptor LV is much bigger than FH. Comparable to SLS Block 1B.
Intermediate can be up to 12 million lbs thrust to launch at pads 39A or 39B. That is smaller than full blown ITS, but could still do far more than FH. 100-150 tons to LEO and use existing infrastructure. However it too would be large and would at least need to be manufactured near and east coast or gulf coast waterway to get to the cape.
Quote from: AncientU on 05/25/2017 12:02 pmQuote from: JamesH65 on 05/25/2017 11:23 am...That's because there isn't one.IYO Raptor 9 is redundant with falcon heavy.
Quote from: envy887 on 05/24/2017 01:45 pmQuote from: gospacex on 05/24/2017 01:10 pm...If it wants that, a successor to F9 booster is developed: larger diameter (say, 5.2m) first stage using the same tech as ITS (if current plans hold, it would be fiber-wound tankage and Raptors). Pads are converted piecemeal to this 5.2m rocket....They won't want it. The only time for an intermediate methane vehicle is before the full Mars architecture is operating. "ITS will obsolete every existing rocket."Plans change. Sometime ago SpaceX thought RP-1 is the best fuel for a booster.
Quote from: gospacex on 05/24/2017 01:10 pm...If it wants that, a successor to F9 booster is developed: larger diameter (say, 5.2m) first stage using the same tech as ITS (if current plans hold, it would be fiber-wound tankage and Raptors). Pads are converted piecemeal to this 5.2m rocket....They won't want it. The only time for an intermediate methane vehicle is before the full Mars architecture is operating. "ITS will obsolete every existing rocket."
...If it wants that, a successor to F9 booster is developed: larger diameter (say, 5.2m) first stage using the same tech as ITS (if current plans hold, it would be fiber-wound tankage and Raptors). Pads are converted piecemeal to this 5.2m rocket....