Author Topic: NASA and Occupy Wall Street  (Read 5611 times)

Offline Riley1066

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NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« on: 10/25/2011 08:31 pm »
I know its early in their formation and coalescing around a "Message" but ... would anyone here care to speculate what the Occupy Wall Street crowd would think about national space program policy?  I suspect that they would be more supportive of government participation in it than the Tea Party would.

I think their support for it would be part of an overall larger scale dedication to basic science and technology investment by the government.

I also thought I'd create this thread as a counterpart to the one that I started about Tea Party positions on space, balance and everything.  :)
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Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #1 on: 10/25/2011 08:51 pm »
A few thoughts

1.  I suspect that, given the early stages of Occupy Wall St, its unlikely they've considered it
2.  As someone who naturally fits with that camp, and has interact with said people, attitudes are all over the map, although many are supportive of commercializing space.
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Riley1066

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #2 on: 10/25/2011 08:55 pm »
A few thoughts

1.  I suspect that, given the early stages of Occupy Wall St, its unlikely they've considered it
2.  As someone who naturally fits with that camp, and has interact with said people, attitudes are all over the map, although many are supportive of commercializing space.

I tend to think that they would support commercializing space too, but not gutting in-house expertise in space operations that some in the tea party would probably support.

Hey, how about you ask some of your OWS-sympathetic people what their stances are on this?
« Last Edit: 10/25/2011 08:56 pm by Riley1066 »
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Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #3 on: 10/25/2011 08:58 pm »
A few thoughts

1.  I suspect that, given the early stages of Occupy Wall St, its unlikely they've considered it
2.  As someone who naturally fits with that camp, and has interact with said people, attitudes are all over the map, although many are supportive of commercializing space.

I tend to think that they would support commercializing space too, but not gutting in-house expertise in space operations that some in the tea party would probably support.

Hey, how about you ask some of your OWS-sympathetic people what their stances are on this?

Well, I'll say this so for sure - The chief science reporter at Dailykos has not been a fan of SLS, and neither has Phil Plait of bad astronomy. 

And nobody ever is really for gutting in-house expertise, provided that expertise is useful (which is a topic that I know is a bit no-no)
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Riley1066

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #4 on: 10/25/2011 09:01 pm »
Quote
[quote author=Political Hack Wannabe
Well, I'll say this so for sure - The chief science reporter at Dailykos has not been a fan of SLS, and neither has Phil Plait of bad astronomy. 

And nobody ever is really for gutting in-house expertise, provided that expertise is useful (which is a topic that I know is a bit no-no)

The Daily Kos and Phil Plait are entitled to be wrong about NASA's future if they want to be. :-)
« Last Edit: 10/25/2011 09:02 pm by Riley1066 »
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Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #5 on: 10/25/2011 09:04 pm »
Quote
[quote author=Political Hack Wannabe
Well, I'll say this so for sure - The chief science reporter at Dailykos has not been a fan of SLS, and neither has Phil Plait of bad astronomy. 

And nobody ever is really for gutting in-house expertise, provided that expertise is useful (which is a topic that I know is a bit no-no)

The Daily Kos and Phil Plait are entitled to be wrong about NASA's future if they want to be. :-)

The point I was getting at is that, if you are expecting OWS as friends, I suspect you'll be disappointed. 
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Riley1066

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #6 on: 10/25/2011 09:09 pm »
Quote
The point I was getting at is that, if you are expecting OWS as friends, I suspect you'll be disappointed. 

I'm not really happy with anyone these days it seems.  I want NASA to have its own in house access to wherever it operates, and wherever it might decide to operate in the future.  I'm sick of NASA becoming venture capitalist for private companies.  Yes I am aware that helping private industry is PART of its mission, but its only PART of it.   The American People (the 99%) need a space program that serves their needs not just the 1%.
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #7 on: 10/25/2011 09:11 pm »
The OWS in Chicago group (I suppose it would be "OC") actually prepared a list of "demands".

Number 1 was to restore the Glass–Steagall Act.  That's a good, common-sense idea that most people likely support. 

They should have stopped there but couldn't help themselves.  There were 19 more "demands", which was 19 too many, IMO.  Demand No. 20 was "forgive all student loans" or some-such, which was ridiculously funny.

Nothing about NASA!

They'll be gone soon.  It'll be below freezing by the end of next week. 

The ultimate resolver, of course, will be jobs.  Ford announced earlier this year that it will double its employment in Shanghai, so it may be awhile.   

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/25/2011 09:17 pm by edkyle99 »

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #8 on: 10/25/2011 09:14 pm »
I suspect that they would be more supportive of government participation in it than the Tea Party would.

I think their support for it would be part of an overall larger scale dedication to basic science and technology investment by the government.


From what I can tell OWS is more about "redistributing wealth".  In other words give me the money that someone worked for because we want it for free.  They have no interest in the pursuit of anything grand and noble (space or not) in my opinion.

I would be careful not to put Tea Party into a box where they only say "commercialize everything" or the Democrats (as I said OWS is hardly the Tea Party) into the box of "government only for space".  There are definitely shades of grey, which is where reality is at. 

If you tie NASA to legalizing pot though I'm sure you would see OWS support increase for NASA....  :)
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Offline Riley1066

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #9 on: 10/25/2011 09:18 pm »

Quote
From what I can tell OWS is more about "redistributing wealth".  In other words give me the money that someone worked for because we want it for free.  They have no interest in the pursuit of anything grand and noble (space or not) in my opinion.

I would be careful not to put Tea Party into a box where they only say "commercialize everything" or the Democrats (as I said OWS is hardly the Tea Party) into the box of "government only for space".  There are definitely shades of grey, which is where reality is at. 

If you tie NASA to legalizing pot though I'm sure you would see OWS support increase for NASA....  :)

I would have thought that redistributing Defense Department "wealth" to NASA (among other science and technology agencies) would qualify for them.
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Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #10 on: 10/25/2011 09:23 pm »

Quote
From what I can tell OWS is more about "redistributing wealth".  In other words give me the money that someone worked for because we want it for free.  They have no interest in the pursuit of anything grand and noble (space or not) in my opinion.

I would be careful not to put Tea Party into a box where they only say "commercialize everything" or the Democrats (as I said OWS is hardly the Tea Party) into the box of "government only for space".  There are definitely shades of grey, which is where reality is at. 

If you tie NASA to legalizing pot though I'm sure you would see OWS support increase for NASA....  :)

I would have thought that redistributing Defense Department "wealth" to NASA (among other science and technology agencies) would qualify for them.

Except that, most people think we spend almost as much on NASA as we do the DOD. 
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #11 on: 10/25/2011 09:48 pm »

Quote
From what I can tell OWS is more about "redistributing wealth".  In other words give me the money that someone worked for because we want it for free.  They have no interest in the pursuit of anything grand and noble (space or not) in my opinion.

I would be careful not to put Tea Party into a box where they only say "commercialize everything" or the Democrats (as I said OWS is hardly the Tea Party) into the box of "government only for space".  There are definitely shades of grey, which is where reality is at. 

If you tie NASA to legalizing pot though I'm sure you would see OWS support increase for NASA....  :)

I would have thought that redistributing Defense Department "wealth" to NASA (among other science and technology agencies) would qualify for them.

Except that, most people think we spend almost as much on NASA as we do the DOD. 

Had something similar to that just today on a general sports forum, where some fella claimed NASA gets $500 billion a year :D (I corrected him, whilst noting "I wish").
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Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #12 on: 10/25/2011 09:55 pm »
The OWS in Chicago group (I suppose it would be "OC") actually prepared a list of "demands".

Number 1 was to restore the Glass–Steagall Act.  That's a good, common-sense idea that most people likely support. 

They should have stopped there but couldn't help themselves.  There were 19 more "demands", which was 19 too many, IMO.  Demand No. 20 was "forgive all student loans" or some-such, which was ridiculously funny.

Nothing about NASA!

They'll be gone soon.  It'll be below freezing by the end of next week. 

The ultimate resolver, of course, will be jobs.  Ford announced earlier this year that it will double its employment in Shanghai, so it may be awhile.   

 - Ed Kyle

I'll give our Chicago mayor some credit. At least he is having the police enforce the law. The park closes at 11pm. If you don't leave, we will arrest you. You have the right to free speech, but there isn't anyone listening to your speech after 11pm, so go home and take a shower.

We don't need an early winter in Chicago.

Ford is also expanding their employment in Chicago, since the Explorer is built here.

Offline Khadgars

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #13 on: 10/25/2011 10:04 pm »
I suspect that they would be more supportive of government participation in it than the Tea Party would.

I think their support for it would be part of an overall larger scale dedication to basic science and technology investment by the government.


From what I can tell OWS is more about "redistributing wealth".  In other words give me the money that someone worked for because we want it for free.  They have no interest in the pursuit of anything grand and noble (space or not) in my opinion.

I would be careful not to put Tea Party into a box where they only say "commercialize everything" or the Democrats (as I said OWS is hardly the Tea Party) into the box of "government only for space".  There are definitely shades of grey, which is where reality is at. 

If you tie NASA to legalizing pot though I'm sure you would see OWS support increase for NASA....  :)

That is a gross mis-categorization of OWS and a massive misunderstanding of what people actually want done.  I've been to Occupy L.A and I'm in touch with people who've been to OWS as well.

Where do you come to the conclusion that people just want money "thrown at them", unless you've only been watching fox news?  The main premise is that most government officials have be bought out by large transnational corporations and wealthy individuals and tailor the government to meet their needs and not the needs of the 99% of us.  By adjusting the tax code to fairly reflect the wealth distributions in this country and tailoring government programs to actually help the majority of Americans instead of the privileged wealthy in this country, we might actually get things done. 

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Khadgars

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #14 on: 10/25/2011 10:06 pm »
The OWS in Chicago group (I suppose it would be "OC") actually prepared a list of "demands".

Number 1 was to restore the Glass–Steagall Act.  That's a good, common-sense idea that most people likely support. 

They should have stopped there but couldn't help themselves.  There were 19 more "demands", which was 19 too many, IMO.  Demand No. 20 was "forgive all student loans" or some-such, which was ridiculously funny.

Nothing about NASA!

They'll be gone soon.  It'll be below freezing by the end of next week. 

The ultimate resolver, of course, will be jobs.  Ford announced earlier this year that it will double its employment in Shanghai, so it may be awhile.   

 - Ed Kyle

I'll give our Chicago mayor some credit. At least he is having the police enforce the law. The park closes at 11pm. If you don't leave, we will arrest you. You have the right to free speech, but there isn't anyone listening to your speech after 11pm, so go home and take a shower.


The Constitution protects the right for peaceful civil disobedience.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Namechange User

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #15 on: 10/25/2011 10:20 pm »
Where do you come to the conclusion that people just want money "thrown at them", unless you've only been watching fox news?  The main premise is that most government officials have be bought out by large transnational corporations and wealthy individuals and tailor the government to meet their needs and not the needs of the 99% of us.  By adjusting the tax code to fairly reflect the wealth distributions in this country and tailoring government programs to actually help the majority of Americans instead of the privileged wealthy in this country, we might actually get things done. 



Typical.  I get my information from a variety of news sources. 

Are you saying there is zero "wealth redistribution" themes, where those who do not have as much money as others do not want to see other's money handed to them in order to be "fair"? 

Are you saying the communist party of the USA does not suppot the "Occupy" movements?  That the socialist party of the USA does not support the movements?  As well as a number of other "fringe" groups that run very much counter to the principles of the United States of America. 

While I agree there is much to be done with the tax code, as evidenced by many candidates in the past and present, "adjustment" in the terms you just described means something completely different no doubt. 
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #16 on: 10/25/2011 10:21 pm »
The OWS in Chicago group (I suppose it would be "OC") actually prepared a list of "demands".

Number 1 was to restore the Glass–Steagall Act.  That's a good, common-sense idea that most people likely support. 

They should have stopped there but couldn't help themselves.  There were 19 more "demands", which was 19 too many, IMO.  Demand No. 20 was "forgive all student loans" or some-such, which was ridiculously funny.

Nothing about NASA!

They'll be gone soon.  It'll be below freezing by the end of next week. 

The ultimate resolver, of course, will be jobs.  Ford announced earlier this year that it will double its employment in Shanghai, so it may be awhile.   

 - Ed Kyle

I'll give our Chicago mayor some credit. At least he is having the police enforce the law. The park closes at 11pm. If you don't leave, we will arrest you. You have the right to free speech, but there isn't anyone listening to your speech after 11pm, so go home and take a shower.


The Constitution protects the right for peaceful civil disobedience.

What part of illegally camping out in a park after it's closed qualifies as civil disobedience ?

They have a right to demonstrate, although you might need to stop by city hall to obtain a permit first.

Laws apply to 100 percent of the population, and should be enforced.

Also, given a choice between capitalism and communism, I choose capitalism every time. Those who wish to choose differently can move to Cuba. I hear the health care is great there.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #17 on: 10/25/2011 10:26 pm »
I’d rather move to China… Successful Communists  ::)
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Offline Khadgars

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Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #18 on: 10/25/2011 10:30 pm »
Where do you come to the conclusion that people just want money "thrown at them", unless you've only been watching fox news?  The main premise is that most government officials have be bought out by large transnational corporations and wealthy individuals and tailor the government to meet their needs and not the needs of the 99% of us.  By adjusting the tax code to fairly reflect the wealth distributions in this country and tailoring government programs to actually help the majority of Americans instead of the privileged wealthy in this country, we might actually get things done. 



Typical.  I get my information from a variety of news sources. 

Are you saying there is zero "wealth redistribution" themes, where those who do not have as much money as others do not want to see other's money handed to them in order to be "fair"? 

Are you saying the communist party of the USA does not suppot the "Occupy" movements?  That the socialist party of the USA does not support the movements?  As well as a number of other "fringe" groups that run very much counter to the principles of the United States of America. 

While I agree there is much to be done with the tax code, as evidenced by many candidates in the past and present, "adjustment" in the terms you just described means something completely different no doubt. 

Do you think it's by accident the top 20% control 85% of the wealth while the bottom 40% have 0.3%?  Or that the top 1% control 35% of the wealth?  It's not about capitalism or socialism, it's about corruption and the power that that wealth provides.

I alone have virtually no lobbying power as do you, yet the Koch brothers alone, two individuals can swing elections all over the country and heavily manipulate legislation.  It's not by accident.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NASA and Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #19 on: 10/25/2011 10:32 pm »
And we're done. Don't need a playground for more political nonsense.

Rockets here.
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