Author Topic: Ron Paul views on space  (Read 79743 times)

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #20 on: 12/23/2011 10:09 pm »
And the Federal Reserve.  OT, but he has a point in noting that it seems strange that a small group of private individuals can have a monopoly on the creation of 'money', and charge citizens the right to use it.  It isn't like you can buy shares in the Federal Reserve or set up your own cenral bank. 

It's not "private" that he's against, it's central banking in general.

Sorry if this was already obvious to you but I've seen confused people get behind Ron Paul's "End The Fed" mantra who want to replace it with a government run central bank.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline krytek

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #21 on: 12/23/2011 10:48 pm »
Paul is the guy who predicted the 2008 collapse, word for word, back in 2002.
He claims that the inflation rate is higher than claimed by the BLS.


Anyway, most of what he says is not Austrian economics.
Ever read Adam Smith's "The Cause Of Wealth Of Nations" ?
or  some of Bastiat's works?
Try it, they're free and really eye opening.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #22 on: 12/24/2011 01:22 am »
If everyone was growing at the same rate (instead of complete stagnation in income per amount of work for the Middle class while the super-rich have become several times wealthier), I think very few people would be resentful of the billionaires.

Exactly.  But they aren't and so they are.  That is, the middle class aren't growing and they are resentful.

Sound money is the main thing that will benefit the average Joe and benefit the long term future of manned and unmanned space exploration.

QFT.  And the money isn't sound.  The thing is, those with the most money have the most to lose.  So they'd better tighten up on making the money sound again.

Ah, good old Austrian economics, the road to massive deflation and another depression!

You do know that, in spite of tripling the money supply, there's been an average inflation rate over the last few years of less than 2%, right?

True, but the demon of hyperinflation is still behind the curtain.  My guess is that should inflation start, it could accelerate rapidly; that's why the Fed is so compulsive about it.  If you think in terms of how excessive the inflation rate has become here and there across the globe in fairly recent years, it can get pretty bad.  And that's not counting Weimar Germany. 

And the actual inflation rate is higher than the "official" rate.  The official rate is bogus from the Joe Sixpack viewpoint.

But I hear what you're saying about Paul not admitting when he's wrong.  Just because all pols these days do that, doesn't mean it's right.  In combination with some of his other extreme ideas, he may not be the man for the job either.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #23 on: 12/24/2011 03:47 am »
So ... what about Ron Paul's space policy?   ???

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #24 on: 12/24/2011 12:41 pm »
So ... what about Ron Paul's space policy?   ???
It'd be consistent for him (and he's rather consistent) to want to defund NASA, and he would likely want to reduce regulations for private spaceflight.
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #25 on: 12/24/2011 02:09 pm »
He said he wouldn't charge corporate income tax on space companies.
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #26 on: 12/24/2011 02:13 pm »
Ron Paul sees space as a frontier, not as a government works program. Just like there was no Federal Program to Develop the West, he would prefer for the private sector to engage in development of space, with the government simply defending property up there (space stations and the like). For Ron Paul, the free enterprise system doesn't stop working 100 miles up.

IMHO, if the Ron Paul space policy were implemented, thousands of people would be flying in space in the near future.

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #27 on: 12/24/2011 02:35 pm »
Ron Paul wishes a pretty big cut in Military, and most aerospace companies get a good percentage of their money from the DOD.

Ron Paul would likely be open to a cut to the top line NASA budget, and likely very unfriendly to the idea of the SLS.

Sounds like all a good chunk of the federal money that goes to the programs we like will get cut, but he will allow them to be taxed at a lower rate.  As far as what I think most of us want (CCDEV/SLS) I think Paul would cut the budget for both in ways.

Saying that I still plan on voting for him because I still can't figure out how Obama/Newt/Perry/Romney would differ much at all on must important things economically.
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #28 on: 12/24/2011 02:45 pm »
Ron Paul sees space as a frontier, not as a government works program. Just like there was no Federal Program to Develop the West, he would prefer for the private sector to engage in development of space, with the government simply defending property up there (space stations and the like). For Ron Paul, the free enterprise system doesn't stop working 100 miles up.

IMHO, if the Ron Paul space policy were implemented, thousands of people would be flying in space in the near future.

Hard to say what the "near future" will bring regarding those thousands of people.  But I think you may be spot on in assessing Mr. Paul's position that the free enterprise system keeps going on until, well, infinity and beyond.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline krytek

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #29 on: 12/24/2011 03:00 pm »
Ron Paul wishes a pretty big cut in Military, and most aerospace companies get a good percentage of their money from the DOD.

Ron Paul would likely be open to a cut to the top line NASA budget, and likely very unfriendly to the idea of the SLS.

Sounds like all a good chunk of the federal money that goes to the programs we like will get cut, but he will allow them to be taxed at a lower rate.  As far as what I think most of us want (CCDEV/SLS) I think Paul would cut the budget for both in ways.

Saying that I still plan on voting for him because I still can't figure out how Obama/Newt/Perry/Romney would differ much at all on must important things economically.

He said he won't cut domestic military spending, he wants to cut money by closing down some of the 900 military bases outside of the US, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Offline rcoppola

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #30 on: 12/24/2011 03:27 pm »
This thread and others like it would be better served if they focussed on those that actually have a shot at winning the primary and most importantly winning the next election. Ron Paul has a zero chance of either.
« Last Edit: 12/24/2011 03:27 pm by rcoppola »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #31 on: 12/24/2011 04:14 pm »
This thread and others like it would be better served if they focussed on those that actually have a shot at winning the primary and most importantly winning the next election. Ron Paul has a zero chance of either.
Ron Paul's economic policies have become pretty popular on the right in the last few years (even though they were shown to be wrong by the complete lack of high inflation rates in spite of continued monetary expansion... this complete lack of high inflation was predicted by other, more Keynesian economics which said that this is the expected behavior in a liquidity trap... Ron Paul has been predicting hyperinflation "in the near future" since at least the early 1980s, but it hasn't materialized:

"Congressman Ron Paul, Congressional Record, February 23, 1981: "I believe such a [gold] standard to be not only desirable and feasible, but absolutely necessary if we aim to avoid the very real possibility of hyperinflation in the near future, and economic collapse. ""

This and other ideas like all government spending is bad unless for defense are very influential these days no matter who the candidate is.

And I think you are misjudging the chances of Ron Paul, who has been increasing in popularity for quite a while, now.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline rcoppola

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #32 on: 12/24/2011 06:08 pm »
This thread and others like it would be better served if they focussed on those that actually have a shot at winning the primary and most importantly winning the next election. Ron Paul has a zero chance of either.
Ron Paul's economic policies have become pretty popular on the right in the last few years (even though they were shown to be wrong by the complete lack of high inflation rates in spite of continued monetary expansion... this complete lack of high inflation was predicted by other, more Keynesian economics which said that this is the expected behavior in a liquidity trap... Ron Paul has been predicting hyperinflation "in the near future" since at least the early 1980s, but it hasn't materialized:

"Congressman Ron Paul, Congressional Record, February 23, 1981: "I believe such a [gold] standard to be not only desirable and feasible, but absolutely necessary if we aim to avoid the very real possibility of hyperinflation in the near future, and economic collapse. ""

This and other ideas like all government spending is bad unless for defense are very influential these days no matter who the candidate is.

And I think you are misjudging the chances of Ron Paul, who has been increasing in popularity for quite a while, now.
Sorry, no. I have misjudged nothing. And it's not a judgement of any kind. It is concrete political observation and fact. He wil not be the nominee. Other then the Iowa caucuses, which frankly are not binding and have no real predictive value, he will cease to be relevant. Again, this is not an opinion, judgment or personal desire, it is hard, cold political fact. If this is not so come March / April, I will publicly "on this forum" admit I was wrong. But trust me, I am not.
« Last Edit: 12/24/2011 06:10 pm by rcoppola »
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Offline go4mars

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #33 on: 12/24/2011 06:13 pm »
an average inflation rate over the last few years of less than 2%, right?
  Wrong.  I disagree with that premise.  http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

I too am amazed by the duration that carefully orchestrated "international cooperation" can sustain things pretty close to the status quo.  It's called everyone kick the can.  How long can completely insolvent banks and countries continue to spend more than they could ever possibly even make payments on (much less pay back)?  Some would suggest that it is a long-term, gradual plan orchestrated to make the average person a debt slave through taxation by their own governments to the owners of foreign central banks and sovereign debt-holding corporations (which they are majority onwers of through a complex network of subsidiary private companies). Hint: the same guys that own America's central bank (and most of the other ones in the world including China).  Some would argue that the "business cycle" is the periodic harvest of up-comers through countercyclical acquisitions which is determined in large part by interest rates and geopolitics (much of which is influenced by central banks, imf, BIS, and the EU).  Some would add that hype around global warming, monetary policy, and taxation are tools to eventual usher in a one world government.  Some would argue that Iraq was about oil, Afghanistan was about lithium and poppies, Libya was about the gold dinar (which outcompetes fiat currencies), and Ron Paul is the only politician who has ever stood so far against the bankers and their Bernaysian status quo in the last 99 years.       

But I'm just a Canadian.  Please forgive me if I overstep in reflecting views that are growing more common in some parts of Canada.
But you can join a credit union (or start one), which uses a similar lender-of-last-resort system.
Completely different.

And by the way, the Federal Reserve determines the money supply.
Exactly.

Maybe the Fed should be completely socialized, but going without any sort of ability to regulate the money supply will make you look pretty foolish when a market failure occurs.
It would be better to have the government regulate it (ensured by scarcity) than to have a few private citizens of europe do it through puppets like Bernanke.  He's just an employee (not the owner), and he certainly doesn't work for the US government (though keeping things frog in a pot style is in the interest of the owners). Beyond what Ron Paul would propose, which is a way better solution that what is currently in place; a truly free market would allow competing currencies to exist. 

Think Tumbago, bitcoin, or others. 
« Last Edit: 12/24/2011 06:30 pm by go4mars »
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Offline go4mars

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #34 on: 12/24/2011 06:16 pm »
He said he wouldn't charge corporate income tax on space companies.

Nor for business conducted by people in space.  That bears notice!!!  Hello space infrastructure!

IMHO, if the Ron Paul space policy were implemented, thousands of people would be flying in space in the near future.

Absolutely!

Anyway, most of what he says is not Austrian economics.
True.
« Last Edit: 12/24/2011 06:18 pm by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #35 on: 12/24/2011 09:06 pm »
This thread and others like it would be better served if they focussed on those that actually have a shot at winning the primary and most importantly winning the next election. Ron Paul has a zero chance of either.
Ron Paul's economic policies have become pretty popular on the right in the last few years (even though they were shown to be wrong by the complete lack of high inflation rates in spite of continued monetary expansion... this complete lack of high inflation was predicted by other, more Keynesian economics which said that this is the expected behavior in a liquidity trap... Ron Paul has been predicting hyperinflation "in the near future" since at least the early 1980s, but it hasn't materialized:

"Congressman Ron Paul, Congressional Record, February 23, 1981: "I believe such a [gold] standard to be not only desirable and feasible, but absolutely necessary if we aim to avoid the very real possibility of hyperinflation in the near future, and economic collapse. ""

This and other ideas like all government spending is bad unless for defense are very influential these days no matter who the candidate is.

And I think you are misjudging the chances of Ron Paul, who has been increasing in popularity for quite a while, now.
Sorry, no. I have misjudged nothing. And it's not a judgement of any kind. It is concrete political observation and fact. He wil not be the nominee. Other then the Iowa caucuses, which frankly are not binding and have no real predictive value, he will cease to be relevant. Again, this is not an opinion, judgment or personal desire, it is hard, cold political fact. If this is not so come March / April, I will publicly "on this forum" admit I was wrong. But trust me, I am not.

The question of  whether Ron Paul will be the Republican nominee is a different issue than the nature of his space policy.  Feel free to start your own thread about his chances in the primaries.

Offline rcoppola

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #36 on: 12/24/2011 09:32 pm »
I don't need to start a new thread on his chances because he doesn't have any. And  with all due respect, if he can't obtain the nomination and can not be elected to the presidency, then he will not have the influence / clout, to make any real impact on space policy regardless of his views. We wouldn't even be discussing his views on space if he wasn't in the running.
« Last Edit: 12/24/2011 09:51 pm by rcoppola »
Sail the oceans of space and set foot upon new lands!
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #37 on: 12/24/2011 10:14 pm »
Quote from: Robotbeat
Ron Paul's economic policies have become pretty popular on the right in the last few years (even though they were shown to be wrong by the complete lack of high inflation rates in spite of continued monetary expansion... this complete lack of high inflation was predicted by other, more Keynesian economics which said that this is the expected behavior in a liquidity trap...

The fact that there is low inflation in the US doesn't prove Austrian economics false. There is high inflation going on in emerging markets all over the world. Basically, the US is exporting inflation: these emerging markets depend on exports for driving economic growth because their own people are too poor to buy much. Since Bernanke has a printing press and is not afraid to use it, the EM's are faced with a dilemma of either allowing their currencies to rise relative to the USD, or they can buy USD, and thus keep their own currencies devalued so they can keep exporting: it's either inflation or lose export markets.

The US is one leaky bucket, and when you turn on the spigot, that just makes it leak faster; eventually, though all that leaking hot money is going to fill up the bathtub, and it's going to slosh back to the US, and then we WILL feel the effects of inflation.

The same thing happened in the early 1970's when Nixon really got the Keynes-fest going good: the first thing it did was cause massive inflation in Japan. The lag before the high US inflation in the later 1970's and early 1980's was several years.

If we don't get our act together, it's not going to bode well for the NASA space program budget.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-17/china-drains-obama-stimulus-meant-for-u-s-economy-commentary-by-andy-xie.html
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #38 on: 12/24/2011 10:32 pm »
The fact that there is low inflation in the US doesn't prove Austrian economics false.


I welcome a new thread on Austrian economics, but we are here to discuss Ron Paul's space policy.

 :-\

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Ron Paul views on space
« Reply #39 on: 12/24/2011 11:03 pm »
The fact that there is low inflation in the US doesn't prove Austrian economics false.


I welcome a new thread on Austrian economics, but we are here to discuss Ron Paul's space policy.

 :-\

Well, the point is if Dr. Paul could get elected and somehow get the US to implement an Austrian-based economic policy, then he might be able to get the economy turned around, and this will be good for the US space program (although Dr. Paul in the past has called for the elimination of NASA).
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

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