Author Topic: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?  (Read 4247 times)

Offline Danderman

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Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« on: 03/02/2012 05:18 PM »
One way to bring the Russians into an exploration program would be for them to furnish a hab module for long term missions into the Great Beyond. Although a 20 ton Salyut type module would require an enormous launch vehicle, perhaps a 10 ton class module would allow a Senate Launch Vehicle to send an Orion plus the module to an asteroid.

If the mass limit on the module is somewhere around 10 tons, then the ideal module would be a Kvant module, modified to serve as a Hab. Do not confuse Kvant with the 20 ton Kvant-2 module, they are completely different. Kvant has zero propulsive capability, although it could carry gyrodynes which could save Orion propellant for long term missions, whereas Kvant-2 was basically a tug.

Kvant is capable of accommodating a toilet, the Vozhduk and Elektron life support systems, sleeping quarters for 2, a kitchen and provides significant pressurized volume, which would be at a premium in a long term mission. The module also has a large capacity for storing spare parts. I suspect that the aft docking compartment could be modified to serve as an airlock, as well.

Wrapped around the aft docking compartment is an unpressurized section that could house scientific instruments, or a truss for solar panels. Alternatively, solar panels could be mounted on the exterior of the main compartment, and the EVAs for such installation could give the crew something to do during the cruise phase of the flight.

A Kvant module modified in this manner would look pretty much like the back half of the current ISS Russian segment Base Block, so it would be very familiar to the crew.  However, I don't have any photos of the interior of Kvant, they don't seem to exist.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2012 05:18 PM by Danderman »

Offline simonbp

Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #1 on: 03/02/2012 08:04 PM »
Interesting idea.

Kvant actually sounds like a good basis for a man-tended L2-station; launch it plus an American SEP propulsion module (to get to L2) on an Ariane 5 and you've got the basis for an ISS2...

Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #2 on: 03/02/2012 10:53 PM »
Interesting idea.

Kvant actually sounds like a good basis for a man-tended L2-station; launch it plus an American SEP propulsion module (to get to L2) on an Ariane 5 and you've got the basis for an ISS2...

I don't know what a SEP is, or whether it can be launched together with a 10 ton Kvant to L2 on an Ariane V.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #3 on: 03/03/2012 12:52 AM »
Interesting idea.

Kvant actually sounds like a good basis for a man-tended L2-station; launch it plus an American SEP propulsion module (to get to L2) on an Ariane 5 and you've got the basis for an ISS2...

I don't know what a SEP is, or whether it can be launched together with a 10 ton Kvant to L2 on an Ariane V.

Solar electric propulsion.
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Online MATTBLAK

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #4 on: 03/03/2012 01:13 AM »
EDIT: SNIP - would allow a Senate Launch Vehicle to send an Orion plus the module to an asteroid.

However, I don't have any photos of the interior of Kvant, they don't seem to exist.


Calling it the 'Senate Launch System' is pejorative, not descriptive. It is NOT an official NASA acronym ;)  If this were a "SLS: For Or Against?" thread, maybe you could use it, but on this occasion - perhaps not appropriate.

However, I think your idea for using the Kvant-derived 'chassis' is a very good one!!
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Offline BrightLight

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #5 on: 03/03/2012 01:39 AM »

However, I don't have any photos of the interior of Kvant, they don't seem to exist.
[/quote]

This might help - a little
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/history/shuttle-mir/multimedia/sts-84-photos/84p-062.htm

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #6 on: 03/03/2012 03:38 AM »
From this angle, it looks a bit crowded in there!
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #7 on: 03/03/2012 06:06 AM »
This might help - a little
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/history/shuttle-mir/multimedia/sts-84-photos/84p-062.htm


I believe that this is an image of the Base Block transfer tunnel leading to Kvant.
« Last Edit: 03/05/2012 11:30 PM by Danderman »

Offline krytek

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #8 on: 03/03/2012 11:43 AM »

Offline simonbp

Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #9 on: 03/03/2012 03:07 PM »
I don't know what a SEP is, or whether it can be launched together with a 10 ton Kvant to L2 on an Ariane V.

As Chris said, a Solar Electric Propulsion stage with a mass of around 10-15 tonnes. That should have enough dv to get the Kvant to L2 in a few months, and then provide power, comm, and halo orbit maintenance once it gets there.

Offline Skylab

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Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #11 on: 03/05/2012 11:18 PM »
A few pics can be found here:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/history/shuttle-mir/spacecraft/s-mir-kvant1-main.htm

Although technically, its part of the interior of Kvant, it looks like the transfer tunnel connecting Kvant aft with a Progress; the tunnel is only about 2 meters in diameter, whereas the Kvant main compartment was 4.1 meters in diameter - that is the area that I have never seen photographed.


Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #12 on: 03/05/2012 11:21 PM »
I don't know what a SEP is, or whether it can be launched together with a 10 ton Kvant to L2 on an Ariane V.

As Chris said, a Solar Electric Propulsion stage with a mass of around 10-15 tonnes. That should have enough dv to get the Kvant to L2 in a few months, and then provide power, comm, and halo orbit maintenance once it gets there.

I don't know what sort of condition any Kvant avionics would be in after a slow cruise through the Van Allen belts.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #13 on: 03/05/2012 11:29 PM »
http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_sovietique/mir/mir_1996.htm
try here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/mir/kvant2.html
this place offers a video tour, don't have real player to confirm

The first link had no interior images of Kvant, and the second was of Kvant-2. The first link, however, had some interior images of Priroda that I hadn't seen before.

As of this date, I have seen more images of the interior of Salyut 3 than of Kvant.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #14 on: 03/05/2012 11:29 PM »
I don't know what a SEP is, or whether it can be launched together with a 10 ton Kvant to L2 on an Ariane V.

As Chris said, a Solar Electric Propulsion stage with a mass of around 10-15 tonnes. That should have enough dv to get the Kvant to L2 in a few months, and then provide power, comm, and halo orbit maintenance once it gets there.

I don't know what sort of condition any Kvant avionics would be in after a slow cruise through the Van Allen belts.

If there is no one inside, does the habitat's avionics have to be powered up as it goes through the Van Allen belts?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #15 on: 03/06/2012 12:17 AM »
I don't know what a SEP is, or whether it can be launched together with a 10 ton Kvant to L2 on an Ariane V.

As Chris said, a Solar Electric Propulsion stage with a mass of around 10-15 tonnes. That should have enough dv to get the Kvant to L2 in a few months, and then provide power, comm, and halo orbit maintenance once it gets there.

I don't know what sort of condition any Kvant avionics would be in after a slow cruise through the Van Allen belts.

If there is no one inside, does the habitat's avionics have to be powered up as it goes through the Van Allen belts?

To be honest, there are no "Kvant avionics" per se, its a function of whatever equipment is installed in Kvant. For example, if ELCSS is installed, can the Elektron or Vozdukh equipment survive weeks or months in the Van Allen belt, even in a powered-down state? I don't know.

For that matter, the SEP stage avionics would have to survive the Van Allen belts, and so someone may be invoking magic in this particular architecture.

Far better would be use of Orion + Kvant launched on some sort of Senate Space Launch System.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #16 on: 03/06/2012 01:11 AM »

For that matter, the SEP stage avionics would have to survive the Van Allen belts, and so someone may be invoking magic in this particular architecture.


The high wattage avionics can probably take the radiation.
The guidance system computer etc. can live in a shielded box.
The star-trackers may need replacing every flight.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #17 on: 03/06/2012 02:16 AM »
...
For that matter, the SEP stage avionics would have to survive the Van Allen belts, and so someone may be invoking magic in this particular architecture.
...
Um, really, now. Radiation levels are an engineering constraint, not one that is indeterminate but one that is quantifiable. There are well-understood countermeasures to radiation and also trajectory modification regimes that are also possible (the area of the belts with the highest radiation doses is pretty small). Don't dismiss something as magic because you don't understand it.

Also, for the most part we are talking about fairly low-energy radiation that can be shielded to a satisfactory degree with shielding. Much lower energy than GCRs.
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Offline simonbp

Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #18 on: 03/06/2012 04:50 AM »
Yeah, if the Van Allen Belts are enough to fry Kvant's electronics, then the module is pretty darn useless anywhere beyond LEO...

Offline krytek

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #19 on: 03/06/2012 07:40 PM »
last try
http://www.spacefacts.de/english/mir.htm
I looked through myself, but I wouldn't recognize it even if I saw it.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Kvant-class Hab Module for Exploration?
« Reply #20 on: 03/07/2012 08:24 PM »
I don't know the interior color scheme for Kvant, so its tough to pick out any potential interior image that is not specifically labeled as such.

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