Author Topic: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet  (Read 34357 times)

Offline Hop_David

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #60 on: 10/12/2015 12:04 am »
one bad thing I found while looking for a first source for the terraforming longevity of the Martian atmosphere was that in order to get earth standard pressure at the surface would require an air column at least 1.6 times as deep as Earth's. I think i read that right.

Yes, lower gravity means taller scale height. Which means more atmosphere is needed to achieve a given pressure.

I mentioned that within this thread. If memory serves Alf Fass has also mentioned this in this thread.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #61 on: 10/12/2015 08:30 pm »
one bad thing I found while looking for a first source for the terraforming longevity of the Martian atmosphere was that in order to get earth standard pressure at the surface would require an air column at least 1.6 times as deep as Earth's. I think i read that right.

Yes, lower gravity means taller scale height. Which means more atmosphere is needed to achieve a given pressure.

I mentioned that within this thread. If memory serves Alf Fass has also mentioned this in this thread.
Yes, but you do not need the full earth pressure in order to be able to work without a spacesuit and just a breathing mask.

Offline Rabit

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #62 on: 12/16/2015 12:18 pm »
Before we start to create an atmosphere similar to Earth on Mars, we must first create a magnetic field on a planetary scale that will protect it from the solar wind.

To do this, first you would have to dig up the core of the planet and we need to have a sufficient number of superconductors to create winding around it.

Regular electrical conductor is not suitable because maintenance of the field would require too much energy.

The alternative is a continuous supply of comets to Mars to cover the loss of the atmosphere by solar wind.
« Last Edit: 12/16/2015 12:33 pm by Rabit »

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #63 on: 12/17/2015 04:22 am »
nope. there is no need to do so. the longevity of the new atmosphere even without the magnetic field is so long that the entire lifetime of the human species is miniscule in comparison.

to make a natural magnetic field you would have to inject special radioactive compounds in vast quantities into the core. You would also need to make a two part core and perhaps adjust the mass of the core all without destroying the crust. While there are some sci-fi options to do this or perhaps just far far far distant future technological means to do so; in reality we will never see the type of technology needed to do this as it would require either vast quantities of nano machines that could somehow survive in the interior environment or else have exquisite levels of control over massive quantities of molecule sized wormholes.

Probably we could build a new planet from the core up before we could non destructively modify Mars' core like that.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2015 04:23 am by Stormbringer »
When antigravity is outlawed only outlaws will have antigravity.

Offline ianken

nope. there is no need to do so. the longevity of the new atmosphere even without the magnetic field is so long that the entire lifetime of the human species is miniscule in comparison.

to make a natural magnetic field you would have to inject special radioactive compounds in vast quantities into the core. ....

Probably we could build a new planet from the core up before we could non destructively modify Mars' core like that.

Yep. You're better off just smashing the planet to make a thick atmosphere all at once then keeping it stocked in a less destructive (but still spectacular) manner going forward. It could even be a planetary holiday.

Offline Paul451

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #65 on: 12/23/2015 07:06 pm »
It could even be a planetary holiday.

"Duck" Day.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #66 on: 12/23/2015 07:23 pm »
It could even be a planetary holiday.

"Duck" Day.

It wouldn't be all it's quacked up to be...
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #67 on: 12/23/2015 09:35 pm »
Anyone care to calculate the energy needed to crash enough watery asteroids from the asteroid belt (assuming that there are many there) into Mars to have a measurable effect on the density of the atmosphere, disregarding any feedback effects that might increase or decrease the result.

Offline alexterrell

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #68 on: 12/23/2015 10:47 pm »
Just some thoughts

The best things come in small packets. Rather than crashing Halleys comet into Mars, we might build a factory to create "outer solar system small body movers". Nuclear powered of course, but we would send hundreds out to small objects around the orbit of Neptune. The further away they are, the less delta V then need to intercept Mars. They need even less energy if a flyby of one of the outer plants can be managed.

Of course, once the orbit is changed, the flight time is decades. We might end up with one impact per week over ten years.

All the expensive infrastructure on Mars will have to be abandoned, and we have to hope that no orbital infrastructure is hit.

Once the last impact has hit, we need to build a rather large set of mirrors around the planet, to increase the amount of light and heat.

We might also want to look at surface operations to manufacture CFCs, which are super greenhouse gases.

Not sure if I'm saying anything Zubrin hasn't figured out here:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/zubrin.htm

Offline Vultur

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #69 on: 12/24/2015 06:05 pm »
You might be able to do it with fewer comets if you crash the comets into big carbonate rock deposits like Nili Fossae (IIRC it has 2x the carbon of Mars' current atmosphere) so the heat of impact liberates more CO2. Would that work?

Offline Dr_Zinj

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #70 on: 02/26/2016 05:35 pm »
Wouldn't we have the option to divert less famous comets? :(
I wouldn't worry about it.  Comets are especially ephemeral in nature.  Haley's will eventually be dispersed throughout the solar system and of no use to anyone.  This way it goes out with a bang and actually does something for us.  The real question is whether Haley's is our best option in both feasibility and in useful/non-toxic composition.

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #71 on: 02/26/2016 05:46 pm »
Despois D, Crovisier J, Bockelée-Morvan D, Gerard E, Schraml J. Observations of hydrogen cyanide in comet Halley. Astronomy and Astrophysics. 1986 May;160:L11.


In 1910 there was widespread fear that the HCN in Halley's tail would poison Earth.  Silly, of course, but we are even sillier today (collectively).  Good luck promoting this scheme!

Offline gospacex

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #72 on: 02/26/2016 05:53 pm »
nope. there is no need to do so. the longevity of the new atmosphere even without the magnetic field is so long that the entire lifetime of the human species is miniscule in comparison.

to make a natural magnetic field you would have to inject special radioactive compounds in vast quantities into the core. ....

Probably we could build a new planet from the core up before we could non destructively modify Mars' core like that.

Yep. You're better off just smashing the planet to make a thick atmosphere all at once then keeping it stocked in a less destructive (but still spectacular) manner going forward. It could even be a planetary holiday.

No need for something as drastic. Park an icy comet in orbit, cut meter-sized pieces of it and drop them one by one all the time.

Offline llanitedave

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #73 on: 02/26/2016 09:20 pm »
Or, just build a few small domes.   ::)
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline Paul451

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #74 on: 02/27/2016 06:07 pm »
Or, just build a few small domes.

Or just build your habitat on/in the comet nucleus and skip Mars entirely.

Offline sanman

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Re: Quickly making an atmosphere on Mars by crashing a comet
« Reply #75 on: 02/29/2016 06:51 am »
But rather than living in domes forever, terraforming will open up the entire planet to us, and will force us to develop the technologies to bring the planet under our control.

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