While the project is led by the BoldlyGo Institute and another private organisation, Mission Centaur, which has drawn up plans for the half-metre-wide space telescope, Morse hopes to bring in other partners from academia and national space agencies. The mission is expected to cost less than $50m (£40m).
Website is live: http://www.projectblue.org
Quote from: as58 on 10/11/2016 11:13 amWebsite is live: http://www.projectblue.orgWhat's your view on this, is it a feasible prospect?
I'm not exactly an expert on this and there's very little info available, so I don't know. The schedule and budget goals seem pretty ambitious.
I'm also not sure if I see the point in doing this. We don't even know if there's a planet to be seen, so spending a lot of money is risky. And why not wait for WFIRST in mid 2020s?
I would think that anything that a 50 cm telescope can detect should be easy for WFIRST coronagraph. Or does the the closeish angular distance between A and B mean you need a more specialised instrument?
I thought the problem regarding the existence of planets around the Alpha Centauri binary was how close they got at the closest point in their orbits, which is equivalent to the distance of Jupiter from our Sun.
Is there any real info available anywhere? The group seems to have been very successful in getting press releases out (there are articles on New York Times, the Guardian, Popular Science, and Scientific American websites), but there's very little in terms of information about the technical plan and scientific rationale (beyond 'it would be so cool'). A look at the website of BoldlyGo Institute shows that this isn't their first project, but I don't see evidence that any of them has made much progress. I was sceptical to begin with, but now I'm even more so.
Quote from: as58 on 10/12/2016 10:33 amIs there any real info available anywhere? The group seems to have been very successful in getting press releases out (there are articles on New York Times, the Guardian, Popular Science, and Scientific American websites), but there's very little in terms of information about the technical plan and scientific rationale (beyond 'it would be so cool'). A look at the website of BoldlyGo Institute shows that this isn't their first project, but I don't see evidence that any of them has made much progress. I was sceptical to begin with, but now I'm even more so.I am not sure why you think they should put all this info out there now, especially if the technology involving the telescope is proprietary.
Quote from: Star One on 10/12/2016 12:00 pmQuote from: as58 on 10/12/2016 10:33 amIs there any real info available anywhere? The group seems to have been very successful in getting press releases out (there are articles on New York Times, the Guardian, Popular Science, and Scientific American websites), but there's very little in terms of information about the technical plan and scientific rationale (beyond 'it would be so cool'). A look at the website of BoldlyGo Institute shows that this isn't their first project, but I don't see evidence that any of them has made much progress. I was sceptical to begin with, but now I'm even more so.I am not sure why you think they should put all this info out there now, especially if the technology involving the telescope is proprietary.To convince anyone to give them money? If they're hoping to launch in 2020, there's no time to waste.
Quote from: as58 on 10/12/2016 12:15 pmQuote from: Star One on 10/12/2016 12:00 pmQuote from: as58 on 10/12/2016 10:33 amIs there any real info available anywhere? The group seems to have been very successful in getting press releases out (there are articles on New York Times, the Guardian, Popular Science, and Scientific American websites), but there's very little in terms of information about the technical plan and scientific rationale (beyond 'it would be so cool'). A look at the website of BoldlyGo Institute shows that this isn't their first project, but I don't see evidence that any of them has made much progress. I was sceptical to begin with, but now I'm even more so.I am not sure why you think they should put all this info out there now, especially if the technology involving the telescope is proprietary.To convince anyone to give them money? If they're hoping to launch in 2020, there's no time to waste.Maybe such information is for potential investors eyes only.
This gets interesting in the context of Project Blue, a consortium of space organizations looking into exoplanetary imaging technologies. This morning Project Blue drew on the work of some of those present at Stanford, launching a campaign to fund a telescope that could obtain the first image of an Earth-like planet outside our Solar System, perhaps by as early as the end of the decade. The idea here is to ignite a Kickstarter effort aimed at raising $1 million to support needed telescope design studies. A $4 million ‘stretch goal’ would allow testing of the coronagraph, completion of telescope design and the beginning of manufacturing.
Project Blue thinks it can bring this mission home — i.e., launch the telescope and carry out its mission — at a final cost of $50 million (the original ACEsat was a $175 million design). The figure is modest enough when you consider that Kepler, which has transformed our view of exoplanets, cost $600 million, while the James Webb Space Telescope weighs in at $8 billion. About a quarter of the total cost, according to the project, goes into getting the telescope into orbit, which will involve partnering with various providers to lower costs.But Project Blue also hopes to build a public community around the mission to support design and research activities. Jon Morse is mission executive for the project:“We’re at an incredible moment in history, where for the first time, we have the technology to actually find another Earth,” said Morse. “Just as exciting — thanks to the power of crowdfunding — we can open this mission to everyone. With the Project Blue consortium, we are bringing together the technical experts who can build and launch this telescope. Now we want to bring along everyone else as well. This is a new kind of space initiative — to achieve cutting-edge science for low cost in just a few years, and it empowers us all to participate in this moment of human discovery.”
Here's a link to Project Blue's kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/projectblue/project-blue-a-space-telescope-to-photograph-anoth?token=359cb0d7I'm going to try putting something towards this myself and I hope others here do likewise.
The major specific I recall is that they want to build a telescope sized like a fridge with a mirror 45-50 centimeters across. On top of that, they did specify it would be imaging in the visible light.....I suppose the question is, with essentially unlimited viewing time (the advantage of a private 'scope versus Hubble or Webb) and apparently a handful of 21st-Century tricks, can a telescope only half-a-meter wide indeed image something around either Alpha Centauri A and B?
An Earth-sized (12700 km diameter) planet around Alpha Centauri A (4.37 light-years) is 3e-10 radians across. To resolve that with 550 nm (green) light, you'd need an aperture 2.2 km in diameter. That will make the planet fill one pixel. This is obviously not the way to go.
A 50cm mirror won't resolve a planet, but can easily treat it as a point source. I did the math a while ago, and each pixel was quite smaller than an AU. So as point source you could do direct imaging. Yes, you won't resolve a continent, but any spectral analysis could be done, and it's apparent movement could be done. Even the doppler shift taken. And if you have two years of observations you could do a very good orbit determination.
1 AU at 4.3 light years is 3.7 microradians. A 50 cm aperture with 550 nm light will resolve two peaks 1.3 microradians apart. You can theoretically resolve the sun and a little dot next to it.The problem is that the Sun (3.8e26 watts) is a couple billion times brighter than, say, the Earth (1.7e17). The ratio is better is the visible band, but it's still large. The sensor itself has a dynamic range limitation of a few thousand to one, but this can be worked around. The tricky bit is that the optical system itself has dynamic range limitations. Apparently these folks have figured out how to reject most of the light from Alpha Centauri A and B so that their telescope can see a potential planet. I'm sure that's possible, but I haven't seen an explanation of how.
Keeping an eye out on how Project Blue's kickstarter's doing. Not wholly promising: only about 8% funded with 29 days to go. Possibly still a shot, but if this doesn't work they might need to take a more academic route with funding from agencies.
Among the names formally approved by the WGSN are Proxima Centauri (for the nearest star to the Sun and host star of the nearest known exoplanet), Rigil Kentaurus (the ancient name for Alpha Centauri and names for dozens of bright stars commonly used for astronavigation. Among the stars with newly approved names that have recently been reported to host extrasolar planet candidates are: Algieba (Gamma1 Leonis), Hamal (Alpha Arietis), and Muscida (Omicron Ursae Majoris).
Alpha Centauri is now officially called Rigil Kentaurus.QuoteAmong the names formally approved by the WGSN are Proxima Centauri (for the nearest star to the Sun and host star of the nearest known exoplanet), Rigil Kentaurus (the ancient name for Alpha Centauri and names for dozens of bright stars commonly used for astronavigation. Among the stars with newly approved names that have recently been reported to host extrasolar planet candidates are: Algieba (Gamma1 Leonis), Hamal (Alpha Arietis), and Muscida (Omicron Ursae Majoris).http://astronomynow.com/2016/11/24/international-astronomical-union-formally-approves-227-star-names/
Ironically Proxima Centauri keeps the same name. It would have made more sense to renamed Alpha Centauri to Rigil Centauri likewise.
Personally, thanks to Sid Meier, I think of A-Cent A as 'Apollo' and A-Cent B as 'Hercules'. I can't personally foresee any point in the future when A-Cent B isn't 'Proxima', no matter what the various governing bodies say.
Alpha Centauri is now officially called Rigil Kentaurus.
I'm not sure why IAU set up a working group to start giving proper names to stars (in most cases, just making traditional names official). Maybe it is a reaction to all kinds of 'name a star for a fee' schemes.
Quote from: Star One on 11/24/2016 07:30 pmAlpha Centauri is now officially called Rigil Kentaurus.Not quite. The IAU Working Group on Star Names approved the name Rigil Kentaurus for Alpha Centauri A. It had previously approved the name Proxima Centauri for Alpha Centauri C. It has yet to approve a name for Alpha Centauri B. Both the bulletins announcing the approvals and the IAU's Catalog of Star Names specifically specifies the letters in these two cases.The WGSN only names individual stars, whether or not they are part of a multiple star system. It will get round to naming the other components as some future date (it made an exception for Proxima Centauri as the star was just about to hit the headlines due to the discovery of the orbiting planet) and might later consider naming multiple star systems. Note that the IAU does not regard 'Alpha Centauri' as a name but as a designation.Quote from: as58 on 11/25/2016 05:51 amI'm not sure why IAU set up a working group to start giving proper names to stars (in most cases, just making traditional names official). Maybe it is a reaction to all kinds of 'name a star for a fee' schemes.Partly. But it was also a result of the NameExoWorlds process where the public was invited to name exoplanets and their host stars where the latter didn't already have a name. They didn't want to approve a star name that was already the name of a star and realised that there was no recognised list of such names. Also, it's an opportunity for public outreach once the more famous stars have been dealt with and a way of being more inclusive in regard to other cultures.
Thank you for that. Why didn't they name all three stars in the system at once as it seems illogical not to do so? Also what is likely to be the name for Alpha Centauri B?
Quote from: Star One on 11/27/2016 06:19 pmThank you for that. Why didn't they name all three stars in the system at once as it seems illogical not to do so? Also what is likely to be the name for Alpha Centauri B?Alpha Centauri B has never had a proper name (or more accurately, originally Rigil Kentaurus was the name of both A and B because to naked eye they appear as a single star). So IAU would probably have to come up with something new, which is obviously more complicated than just making an old name official.
Quote from: as58 on 11/27/2016 06:44 pmQuote from: Star One on 11/27/2016 06:19 pmThank you for that. Why didn't they name all three stars in the system at once as it seems illogical not to do so? Also what is likely to be the name for Alpha Centauri B?Alpha Centauri B has never had a proper name (or more accurately, originally Rigil Kentaurus was the name of both A and B because to naked eye they appear as a single star). So IAU would probably have to come up with something new, which is obviously more complicated than just making an old name official.Just a shame that because Proxima Centauri's planet hasn't been directly observed yet it cannot be officially named.
Just a shame that because Proxima Centauri's planet hasn't been directly observed yet it cannot be officially named.
Quote from: as58 on 11/27/2016 06:44 pmQuote from: Star One on 11/27/2016 06:19 pmThank you for that. Why didn't they name all three stars in the system at once as it seems illogical not to do so? Also what is likely to be the name for Alpha Centauri B?Alpha Centauri B has never had a proper name (or more accurately, originally Rigil Kentaurus was the name of both A and B because to naked eye they appear as a single star). So IAU would probably have to come up with something new, which is obviously more complicated than just making an old name official.There's probably a bit of a debate within the WGSN. They could put it out to the public, but most likely is that they'll eventually choose an existing name by which Alpha Centauri is known in some other culture. (There was a suggestion that A be named Rigil and B Kentaurus, but Rigil was felt too similar to Rigel (Beta Orionis).)Quote from: Star One on 11/27/2016 06:52 pmJust a shame that because Proxima Centauri's planet hasn't been directly observed yet it cannot be officially named.Most (all?) of the exoplanets that have been officially named haven't been directly observed yet. The test is that there's consensus among the professional astronomical community that the planet exists; which probably requires independent verification. As for the name, there's talk of another NameExoWorlds public process, but they could just leave it to the discoverers to suggest something appropriate.
Project Blue – @proj_blueWe’re climbing toward our goal but WE NEED YOUR HELP to blast off toward it. Details/what's in it 4 u: http://blueks.org #Kickstarter
QuoteProject Blue – @proj_blueWe’re climbing toward our goal but WE NEED YOUR HELP to blast off toward it. Details/what's in it 4 u: http://blueks.org #Kickstarter https://mobile.twitter.com/proj_blue/status/809383449505263616Looking at their actually Kickstarter page and they are miles away from their goal, they haven't even reached the quarter way mark.
When it comes to the nearest stars, our focus of late has been on Proxima Centauri and its intriguing planet. But of course the work on Centauri A and B continues at a good clip. The prospects in this system are enticing — a G-class star like our own, a K-class dwarf likewise capable of hosting planets, and the red dwarf Proxima a scant 15000 AU away. Project Blue examines how we might image planets here as our radial velocity studies proceed.But we have much to learn, and not just about possible planets. A new paper by Pierre Kervella (Observatoire de Paris), working with Lionel Bigot and Fréderic Thévenin (both at the Observatoire de la Cote d’Azur), reminds us of the importance of firming up our stellar data.We need to learn as much as possible about Centauri A and B not just because we’d like to find planets there but also because the work has implications for space missions, including the ESA’s Gaia, which will tighten our distance measurements to many stars. The Alpha Centauri stars are important benchmarks for Gaia, putting the emphasis on an accurate calibration of the basic stellar parameters in this system.
FWIW, I'm wondering if there may be a few planetary objects, gravitationally bound to A-B but in a very, very eccentric and high-perihelion orbit due to being ejected by the interaction of the two primaries and with orbital periods of several centuries or even a millennium. A 'frozen Jupiter' or two.
Just out of interest, if a Jupiter-like body (sub-brown dwarf) was orbiting in between A-B and Proxima, would it be detectable at infrared wavelengths?
Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 02/12/2017 07:01 pmFWIW, I'm wondering if there may be a few planetary objects, gravitationally bound to A-B but in a very, very eccentric and high-perihelion orbit due to being ejected by the interaction of the two primaries and with orbital periods of several centuries or even a millennium. A 'frozen Jupiter' or two. Possibly. We simply don't know what's orbiting either A or B. There's probably a lot of potential.Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 02/12/2017 07:01 pmJust out of interest, if a Jupiter-like body (sub-brown dwarf) was orbiting in between A-B and Proxima, would it be detectable at infrared wavelengths?I seem to recall they detected something between A-B and us although it was likely a Kuiper object. As far as detecting what you're talking about, it would have to be something in a very wide orbit as they already eliminated the possibility of anything larger than Neptune orbiting any of the Alpha Centauri members. The best guess for the immediate future would likely depend on whatever the JWST can detect when it gets a chance to be aimed there.
Project Blue @proj_blue 11m11 minutes agoLook for news about Space Act Agreement with NASA tomorrow.
The BoldlyGo Institute (BoldlyGo) and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) have signed a Space Act Agreement to cooperate on "Project Blue," a mission to search for potentially habitable Earth-size planets in the Alpha Centauri system using a specially designed space telescope."We're pleased to be working with NASA on this ambitious public-private partnership," said Dr. Jon Morse, CEO of BoldlyGo. "Much of the coronagraph imaging technology needed for Project Blue to take direct images of exoplanets from space has been developed through NASA-funded programs. Having access to NASA's scientific and technical expertise throughout the mission lifecycle is invaluable," Morse continued.The Space Act Agreement is non-reimbursable, with no exchange of funds between NASA and BoldlyGo. It allows NASA employees - scientists and engineers - to interact with the Project Blue team through its mission development phases to help review mission design plans and to share scientific results on Alpha Centauri and exoplanets along with the latest technology tests being undertaken at NASA facilities. NASA's engagement in its consulting role will be triggered through a set of milestones as technical work is accomplished and the private consortium leading Project Blue raises the funds necessary to continue mission development.The agreement also calls for the raw and processed data from Project Blue to be made available to NASA within one year of its acquisition on orbit via a publicly accessible online data archive. The Project Blue team has been planning such an archive for broadly sharing the data with the global astronomical community and for enabling citizen scientist participation.BoldlyGo and the Project Blue mission team are responsible for the funding and design of a small telescope capable of blocking a star's light in order to image surrounding exoplanets. The telescope will take 3-4 years to construct and launch. Once in orbit, Project Blue will perform an intensive two-year study of Alpha Centauri -- the closest star system to Earth -- with the goal of identifying and capturing a "pale blue dot" image of an Earth-size exoplanet in the habitable zone of the Alpha Centauri A and B stars. The habitable zone is the distance from a star where orbiting planets can have surface temperatures that allow liquid water to pool. While NASA's Kepler mission has shown that terrestrial-sized planets are common in our galaxy, Project Blue would be the first to image in visible light a planet as small as Earth that could potentially sustain life.