Author Topic: Space Access '12 Live Blog  (Read 18532 times)

Offline Silmfeanor

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #80 on: 04/15/2012 09:47 AM »

Muncy: We had got to fix ITAR. Needs to be on policy platform of both candidates. Rockets are dual-use, but spacecraft are not.


I don't understand this quote - what does "Dual-use" mean in this context?
And thanks a lot for the coverage, it was interesting!

Offline Proponent

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #81 on: 04/15/2012 10:16 AM »
Military and civilian.

Offline kkattula

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #82 on: 04/15/2012 03:41 PM »

Muncy: We had got to fix ITAR. Needs to be on policy platform of both candidates. Rockets are dual-use, but spacecraft are not.


I don't understand this quote - what does "Dual-use" mean in this context?
...

Rockets can launch both spacecraft and warheads.

Spacecraft, if designed to re-enter, either decelerate & land at slow speed, or burn up harmlessly.

Warheads RV's are designed to maintain high speed through re-entry to defeat target defenses.

MIRVs don't need ECLSS, on-orbit power, rendezvous & docking systems, etc. It's crazy to treat any of that stuff as ITAR. (Unless you're worried about NK or Iran boarding the ISS).
« Last Edit: 04/15/2012 03:42 PM by kkattula »

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #83 on: 04/15/2012 06:22 PM »
{snip}

MIRVs don't need ECLSS, on-orbit power, rendezvous & docking systems, etc. It's crazy to treat any of that stuff as ITAR. (Unless you're worried about NK or Iran boarding the ISS).

Unless you suspect someone is going to create a spacestation equipped with a weapon.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #84 on: 04/15/2012 07:33 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, the CBM specs are ITAR'ed.

Offline jongoff

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #85 on: 04/16/2012 03:03 PM »
Storable compact RMS for Dragon, etc.
This was just a possibility or something a bit more developed?

It's something we're doing some early design work on, and will continue to be doing some work on. Not just Dragon, but Orion as well. It turns out they have a need for backshell TPS inspection/repair, and the arm we're looking at would be ideal for that.

Quote
Quote
Got MSR sticky boom to TRL5, then MSR killed.
What's MSR? Does this means StickyBoom is dead?

We were getting paid by NASA through an SBIR Phase I contract to study a Sticky Boom for capturing the Mars Sample Return sample canister. We took it to TRL-5, but then when the MSR program got canned, we didn't end up winning the Phase II. Sticky Boom lives on, and we're still actively developing it. It's just that between that and several other simultaneous unfavorable policy tweaks at NASA (going to two-year funding for Phase IIs all at once halved the number of SBIR awards they gave out this year) and some bad luck, we had a really rough Q4/Q1. We're pulling out of it finally, but we had a few months there when I was worried we might have to shoot the puppy for lack of funds.

The joys of starting a tractor beam company with 30 micro-Elons of personal net worth...

~Jon
« Last Edit: 04/16/2012 03:03 PM by jongoff »

Offline jongoff

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #86 on: 04/16/2012 03:05 PM »
Thanks for these notes Simon.

I really like the G-lab concept - using ISS resources (discarded vehicles) to do science that would otherwise have a detrimental effect on other ISS experiments. SSI should talk to the Russians, since they're interested in a man-tended free flyer too.

Also, I really like Jon Goff's D2S. :)
I also like the concept, I just wish it was more specific.

We have more technical details than we're able to cram into a 20min company update presentation, but that's probably better-suited for the Altius Update Thread over in the Commercial Space part of the forum. Feel free to ask away--we are still digging into the details as time goes on, but if we've already got an answer, we'd be glad to share.

~Jon

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #87 on: 04/16/2012 03:49 PM »
Tim Pickens with panel (Masten, Brockert, Breed, Goff, and Clive) "DIY Space Access: Modern Communications, the 'Maker' network, and the Space Community"

Pickens showing off his "rocket man cave". Asks panel what's changed since his amateur days.

Masten: Wasted a lot of time doing chemical engineering rather than rocket engineering. Linux kernel is the exception to the rule, most open source projects fail. 45th space wing has been frustrating to the point of idiocy, despite not actually using any of their services. They want more safety people than Masten employs.

Brockert: The difference between a company and amateur group is project management, forcing people to do the not-so-fun things. But, amateur groups can be much more creative. Amateur groups can also ask for help much, much easier.

Breed: Believes a group smaller than 10, maybe smaller than 5, can launch something into orbit. Hybrid professional-amateur groups usually don't work, especially if amateurs in critical path.

Goff: If you think a launch license cost is a driving force, you're going to have problems. Bringing adequate resources to the problem is crucial. Trial and error is expensive, so it's worth it to have the experience. Naiveté is a good thing, as it gets you to learn a lot.

Clive: There is a lot of duplication of effort, and amateur groups cannot afford this.

Breed: Armadillo was able to make the transition because it had a single funding source.

Clive: We now have a floor to stand on from suborbital rockets.

Masten: Engineering papers are really bad about producing reproducible results/plans. Print something physically and get an ISBN number to get around ITAR.

Clive: Makerspace are just space to do stuff, not a team or project.

Masten: Linus Torvolds figured out how to herd cats, most people can't do that.

Interesting that Masten believes Open Source projects are like hearding cats. He's probably right. The more people rowing the boat, the more difficult it is to get them all working in the same direction.

Offline Chris-A

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #88 on: 04/16/2012 04:15 PM »
Interesting that Masten believes Open Source projects are like hearding cats. He's probably right. The more people rowing the boat, the more difficult it is to get them all working in the same direction.

Another problem is the duplication of effort.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #89 on: 04/16/2012 04:21 PM »
Interesting that Masten believes Open Source projects are like hearding cats. He's probably right. The more people rowing the boat, the more difficult it is to get them all working in the same direction.
Few Open Source projects succeed without the
 "Benevolent Dictator" management method. He has to have all three capacities of workaholic, extremely gifted mind and very professional working system. So yep, it's very difficult if you don't have a once in then thousands of a manager.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #90 on: 04/16/2012 04:35 PM »
But the open-source (software) successes can be spectacular, ala Linux, Apache, etc. While Linux has had a hard time penetrating the desktop, the desktop is becoming (has become?) irrelevant. Android (which is Linux) is the most popular smartphone operating system. Linux is also all over the place in embedded devices, SANs, and web servers (especially!). Its success is so large that it has become invisible to many people, who think it's just for a handful of nerds out there.

Heck, this website we're talking on right now is powered by Simple Machines (an open-source web forum software) and MySQL (an open-source database), which means it is probably running a Linux LAMP software stack (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP), open-source all through.

Linux is part of a whole ecosystem of open-source software that the Internet depends on. Heck, if you're using Firefox or Chrome, you're running an open-source web browser.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline simonbp

Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #91 on: 04/17/2012 02:38 AM »
The context of the discussion was amateur vs. professional vs. professional with amateur help. Dave Masten's point (and echoed by the other contributers) was more that the latter is most difficult to get to work, but the most rewarding if it does. Masten directly contrasted Linux, which has a pretty good benevolent dictator (because Linus is such a nice guy), with NetBSD, which has a less harmonious benevolent dictator. And Linux is a hybrid project that is GPL open source, but receives most its new code from corporate contributers (and ditto for Apache). Mozilla is a not-for-profit foundation that both employs developers and accepts code from volunteers, so again a hybrid approach.

(And I am writing this from Firefox in Gentoo Linux, as always.)

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #92 on: 04/17/2012 02:44 AM »
The context of the discussion was amateur vs. professional vs. professional with amateur help. Dave Masten's point (and echoed by the other contributers) was more that the latter is most difficult to get to work, but the most rewarding if it does. Masten directly contrasted Linux, which has a pretty good benevolent dictator (because Linus is such a nice guy), with NetBSD, which has a less harmonious benevolent dictator. And Linux is a hybrid project that is GPL open source, but receives most its new code from corporate contributers (and ditto for Apache). Mozilla is a not-for-profit foundation that both employs developers and accepts code from volunteers, so again a hybrid approach.

(And I am writing this from Firefox in Gentoo Linux, as always.)
I think Dave Masten is right.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline baldusi

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #93 on: 04/17/2012 03:31 AM »
...Masten directly contrasted Linux, which has a pretty good benevolent dictator (because Linus is such a nice guy), with NetBSD, which has a less harmonious benevolent dictator...
NetBSD? Or OpenBSD? I thought NetBSD has a committee. OpenBSD Has Theo ;-)

Offline simonbp

Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #94 on: 04/17/2012 04:46 PM »
I thought he said Net, but you're right. I either misremembered or he did.

Offline Rick M

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Re: Space Access '12 Live Blog
« Reply #95 on: 12/31/2012 01:33 AM »
Rick Maschek, Sugar Shot To Space

Goal is build a sugar-powered rocket that eventually reaches space. Many tests, slowly making progress. DoubleShot (aiming for 120,000 ft) has been tested once, and blew up.
our second motor CATOed (see video) and further testing has revealed the cause. We are correcting the problem and will be doing a third static test soon.


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