Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION  (Read 233803 times)

Offline Ronsmytheiii

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22327
  • Liked: 608
  • Likes Given: 244
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #100 on: 04/01/2017 08:25 PM »
Regarding NROL-76 I wonder if the customer even allows video for SpaceX's internal use.  Or perhaps they allow it but have to delete it if there are no anomiallys.

There is zero chance NRO will let Spacex put a camera under the fairing.

No, just zero chance NRO will let them broadcast the stream.

Wrong, anyone who touches that hypothetical camera would have to be cleared. Won't happen.
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Offline IanThePineapple

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
  • NaN
  • Liked: 121
  • Likes Given: 77
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #101 on: 04/01/2017 08:41 PM »
One thing I wonder is how will MCC-X communicate that the payload is separated? Will they turn to an internal voice loop? Also, I wonder if they will broadcast MCC audio to the employees outside post stream end...
« Last Edit: 04/01/2017 08:44 PM by gongora »
Proud creator of Ian's Paper Model Rocket Collection:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42383.0

Offline LouScheffer

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1555
  • Liked: 1757
  • Likes Given: 199
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #102 on: 04/01/2017 09:37 PM »
Regarding NROL-76 I wonder if the customer even allows video for SpaceX's internal use.  Or perhaps they allow it but have to delete it if there are no anomiallys.

There is zero chance NRO will let Spacex put a camera under the fairing.
I'd think NRO would want video in case of any anomaly.  How about an NRO supplied camera, encrypted with an NRO-only key?  The no-one else can see the video, but in case of an anomaly, they would share the relevant portions of the decrypted video with the investigation board.

Offline pb2000

  • Member
  • Posts: 70
  • Calgary, AB/Mesquite, NV
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #103 on: 04/01/2017 10:08 PM »
Nowadays, everybody and their dog seems to be able to figure out the orbit and general function of nearly everything the NRO sends up, so parts of this cloak and dagger game seem a bit silly.
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT)

Online DaveS

  • Shuttle program observer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7774
  • Sweden
  • Liked: 302
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #104 on: 04/01/2017 10:36 PM »
Regarding NROL-76 I wonder if the customer even allows video for SpaceX's internal use.  Or perhaps they allow it but have to delete it if there are no anomiallys.

There is zero chance NRO will let Spacex put a camera under the fairing.
I'd think NRO would want video in case of any anomaly.  How about an NRO supplied camera, encrypted with an NRO-only key?  The no-one else can see the video, but in case of an anomaly, they would share the relevant portions of the decrypted video with the investigation board.
No need. Previous anomalies on NRO launches be it Atlas or Delta have been solved without the need of video.
"For Sardines, space is no problem!"
-1996 Astronaut class slogan

"We're rolling in the wrong direction but for the right reasons"
-USA engineer about the rollback of Discovery prior to the STS-114 Return To Flight mission

Offline yokem55

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
  • Oregon (Ore-uh-gun dammit)
  • Liked: 247
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #105 on: 04/02/2017 04:15 PM »
Nowadays, everybody and their dog seems to be able to figure out the orbit and general function of nearly everything the NRO sends up, so parts of this cloak and dagger game seem a bit silly.
There are a lot of educated guesses. Orbits are pretty certain things, but they take a while to identify with specificity. As for payload identities, that's more educated guessing. And the fewer pieces of hard data, the less that can be inferred about other good guesses. No need to serve up all the details on a platter.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9627
  • Likes Given: 299
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #106 on: 04/04/2017 03:34 PM »
One thing I wonder is how will MCC-X communicate that the payload is separated? Will they turn to an internal voice loop? Also, I wonder if they will broadcast MCC audio to the employees outside post stream end...

MCC-X is not used for launch.  It has no operational role in standard launches.  It is only for telemetry monitoring.  The LCC at the Cape is in charge.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9627
  • Likes Given: 299
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #107 on: 04/04/2017 03:34 PM »
I'd think NRO would want video in case of any anomaly.  How about an NRO supplied camera, encrypted with an NRO-only key?  The no-one else can see the video, but in case of an anomaly, they would share the relevant portions of the decrypted video with the investigation board.

No, they don't have them for other launch vehicles.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9627
  • Likes Given: 299
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #108 on: 04/04/2017 03:35 PM »
Nowadays, everybody and their dog seems to be able to figure out the orbit and general function of nearly everything the NRO sends up, so parts of this cloak and dagger game seem a bit silly.

Not really

Online abaddon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Liked: 947
  • Likes Given: 766
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #109 on: 04/04/2017 03:56 PM »
@yokem55 already answered that more verbosely up above.

Any news on how well the pad came through the previous launch?  12 days out, so we should start hearing something soon I would imagine.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #110 on: 04/04/2017 04:32 PM »
I've been asked for people to put a sock in it. Don't have time to read, but I guess we're going back and forth over a camera ;D So yeah, anyway - I've got to rush to Jim's to show him how to respond to three people without three posts in a row ;)

Offline Herb Schaltegger

Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #111 on: 04/04/2017 07:30 PM »
@yokem55 already answered that more verbosely up above.

Any news on how well the pad came through the previous launch?  12 days out, so we should start hearing something soon I would imagine.

There's L2 info on this. Nutshell is no problem.
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #112 on: 04/05/2017 12:23 PM »
Yep. 39A is doing very well.

Now, where's that sexy NROL patch? We should be seeing one of those cool patches ULA get for their NROL missions for this SpaceX mission....soon, I hope.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6997
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 553
  • Likes Given: 638
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #113 on: 04/05/2017 12:35 PM »
MiB from the NRO: "I'm sorry, the mission patch for this launch is... classified."
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!


Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6997
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 553
  • Likes Given: 638
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #115 on: 04/07/2017 03:03 PM »
Most likely cause of the delay (IMO): Whatever problem there was with the OA-CRS-7 launch vehicle has been cleared and NASA have arranged for it to be moved to the front of the launch queue. NRO had no problem with the launch of NROL-76 being moved to the next available window for its objective orbit.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Online abaddon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1513
  • Liked: 947
  • Likes Given: 766
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #116 on: 04/07/2017 03:15 PM »
OA-CRS-7 is NET April 18th.  I doubt they've delayed all the way to the 30th because of it, although I suppose it is possible if there is some range downtime in there (have not heard of such though).

Payload delays in the space business are a regular occurrence, especially outside the comsat business, so this is hardly shocking.  It is one of the many challenges SpaceX faces in being able to start catching up on their backlog.  They really need LC40 back in business (and staffing sufficient to be able to launch independently from both pads) ASAP.

Online M.E.T.

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
  • Liked: 190
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #117 on: 04/07/2017 07:34 PM »
So NROL effectively cost SpaceX $62m of lost revenue for the 2017 calendar year. That's based on the two week launch cadence that SpaceX now seems capable of, barring external delays.

So by moving their entire launch schedule out by two weeks, that is effectively one launch they cost SpaceX this year. This vulnerability is something that has to change if SpaceX is to achieve the economies of scale fundamental to its long term business model.

$62m. And it seems all they can do is grin and bear it.

Offline mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1056
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1269
  • Likes Given: 3284
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #118 on: 04/07/2017 07:39 PM »
So NROL effectively cost SpaceX $62m of lost revenue for the 2017 calendar year. That's based on the two week launch cadence that SpaceX now seems capable of, barring external delays.

So by moving their entire launch schedule out by two weeks, that is effectively one launch they cost SpaceX this year. This vulnerability is something that has to change if SpaceX is to achieve the economies of scale fundamental to its long term business model.

$62m. And it seems all they can do is grin and bear it.
Delays are part of doing business as many of SpaceX's customers will tell you.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Online M.E.T.

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
  • Liked: 190
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 - NROL-76 - May 1, 2017 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #119 on: 04/07/2017 07:40 PM »
So NROL effectively cost SpaceX $62m of lost revenue for the 2017 calendar year. That's based on the two week launch cadence that SpaceX now seems capable of, barring external delays.

So by moving their entire launch schedule out by two weeks, that is effectively one launch they cost SpaceX this year. This vulnerability is something that has to change if SpaceX is to achieve the economies of scale fundamental to its long term business model.

$62m. And it seems all they can do is grin and bear it.
Delays are part of doing business as many of SpaceX's customers will tell you.

But regular delays of this magnitude cannot be part of the business that SpaceX is trying to build. Rapid launch cadence is a fundamental part of their business model.

Tags: