Author Topic: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10  (Read 320139 times)

Offline Rabidpanda

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #480 on: 03/20/2010 02:40 am »
Sorry if this has been covered before:

Can the X-37B reach the ISS and return from it?  Can the X-37B practically be made to dock with the ISS?

Could a single astronaut with an ACES suit, sufficient air, and proper restraint survive launch and/or re-entry in the X-37B?

1.  Yes
2.  no
3. no

So assuming an astronaut from the ISS could spacewalk and put something in the X-37's payload bay then it would be possible for the X-37 to return scientific experiments to earth?  I'm not saying it would be practical, just wondering if it's possible.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #481 on: 03/20/2010 02:52 am »
Sorry if this has been covered before:

Can the X-37B reach the ISS and return from it?  Can the X-37B practically be made to dock with the ISS?

Could a single astronaut with an ACES suit, sufficient air, and proper restraint survive launch and/or re-entry in the X-37B?

1.  Yes
2.  no
3. no

So assuming an astronaut from the ISS could spacewalk and put something in the X-37's payload bay then it would be possible for the X-37 to return scientific experiments to earth?  I'm not saying it would be practical, just wondering if it's possible.

I'm going to have to clarify Jim's words here (or contradict them, if he meant differently).

The X-37B can "reach" ISS only in the sense that it could be launched to ISS altitude and return.

It is capable of neither rendezvous nor prox ops with ISS. It could do an open-loop "intercept" but that would be limited to what ground targeting could achieve.

So no, your proposal is not only impractical, it is impossible.
JRF

Offline JosephB

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #482 on: 03/24/2010 03:12 pm »
Anyone heard if landing video/photos will be public?

Offline Jon_Jones

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #483 on: 03/27/2010 09:42 pm »
Day dreaming:

1. Could this vehicle carry experimental space weapons to test functionality in space, or perhaps constituent materials thereof?

2. it seems that for a reusable craft of this size, deploying rather than retrieving payloads seem more likely. However, if it was only deploying things, I would have guessed that expendable would be cheaper.

3. Was some hard-core shuttle enthusiast put in charge of USAF space research ... and then just wanted to make the best model rocket ever?
Speed = Life iff Life = Speed

Offline Jim

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #484 on: 03/27/2010 09:46 pm »
Day dreaming:

1. Could this vehicle carry experimental space weapons to test functionality in space, or perhaps constituent materials thereof?

2. it seems that for a reusable craft of this size, deploying rather than retrieving payloads seem more likely. However, if it was only deploying things, I would have guessed that expendable would be cheaper.

3. Was some hard-core shuttle enthusiast put in charge of USAF space research ... and then just wanted to make the best model rocket ever?

1.  Name a  deployable space weapon with ASE that weighs 500 lbs

2.  Correct, such a payload could fly a Pegasus.

3.  No, NASA started the X-37

Offline Jon_Jones

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #485 on: 03/29/2010 03:46 am »
1. 499lbs of brass BBs and 10 'Nerf' guns
Speed = Life iff Life = Speed

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #486 on: 03/29/2010 05:57 am »
I think the X-37B is just a sub scale model of something larger vs anything operational.

Offline clongton

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #487 on: 03/29/2010 12:05 pm »
It's a technology test platform - nothing more.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #488 on: 03/29/2010 12:45 pm »
On the other hand, if someone wanted to return a classified something back to Earth, tucked away in a closed payload bay, wings and cross-range and a controlled landing on a runway located inside a secure area would seem desirable, if not essential. 

Of course the Corona/Keyhole program did something similar with capsules and parachutes, but the payloads (film return buckets) were pretty small and, it might be argued, not a catastrophic national security loss if recovered by the "bad guys" instead, since they were merely photos of the "bad guys" own territory. 

Makes you wonder if there hasn't been a wings versus capsule debate in the classified world in recent years.

 - Ed Kyle

To bring back up a very interesting comment, the concept behind an X-37 does lend itself very well to a resurgence in low altitude intel gathering. Like Corona & Keyhole, you can take your photos, or LLTV or IR or whatever from very low altitudes with very high resolution and, with a 2+km/s dV you can do it for a while and then return to a secure site, but also you can relaunch the spacecraft after a quick refurbishment and do it on an operationally responsive basis. 270 days in orbit allows a lot of loiter before a period of intense ops flying and the large dV also allows a fair amount of orbital spoofing so that the "bad" guys can't plan as well for the satellite overflys.

The question is, of course, is that capability something that becomes more cost efficient with reusability or would it still be cheaper all around to throw the spacecraft away? The secure landing is, I think, worth something and the ability to reuse the spacecraft after the precision landing might just be a bonus.

Hmmm. Just spitballin', but I wonder what the operational trade offs would be. Where's Mr. Barton when you need him to develop a cool story from all this.  :)

Paul
Sr. Mech. Engineer
MDA

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #489 on: 03/29/2010 01:04 pm »
Like Corona & Keyhole, you can take your photos, or LLTV or IR or whatever from very low altitudes with very high resolution and, with a 2+km/s dV you can do it for a while and then return to a secure site, but also you can relaunch the spacecraft after a quick refurbishment and do it on an operationally responsive basis.

How is it operationally responsible if its launch vehicle needs something like 1.5 years from ATP and its launch manifest is booked?

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #490 on: 03/29/2010 01:20 pm »
Like Corona & Keyhole, you can take your photos, or LLTV or IR or whatever from very low altitudes with very high resolution and, with a 2+km/s dV you can do it for a while and then return to a secure site, but also you can relaunch the spacecraft after a quick refurbishment and do it on an operationally responsive basis.

How is it operationally responsible if its launch vehicle needs something like 1.5 years from ATP and its launch manifest is booked?

That is the reason why some posters on this thread have speculated about an all-USAF quick-response orbital launch system.  Maybe something derived from Athena-2 or Minotaur-V.
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Offline William Barton

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #491 on: 03/29/2010 01:34 pm »
On the other hand, if someone wanted to return a classified something back to Earth, tucked away in a closed payload bay, wings and cross-range and a controlled landing on a runway located inside a secure area would seem desirable, if not essential. 

Of course the Corona/Keyhole program did something similar with capsules and parachutes, but the payloads (film return buckets) were pretty small and, it might be argued, not a catastrophic national security loss if recovered by the "bad guys" instead, since they were merely photos of the "bad guys" own territory. 

Makes you wonder if there hasn't been a wings versus capsule debate in the classified world in recent years.

 - Ed Kyle

To bring back up a very interesting comment, the concept behind an X-37 does lend itself very well to a resurgence in low altitude intel gathering. Like Corona & Keyhole, you can take your photos, or LLTV or IR or whatever from very low altitudes with very high resolution and, with a 2+km/s dV you can do it for a while and then return to a secure site, but also you can relaunch the spacecraft after a quick refurbishment and do it on an operationally responsive basis. 270 days in orbit allows a lot of loiter before a period of intense ops flying and the large dV also allows a fair amount of orbital spoofing so that the "bad" guys can't plan as well for the satellite overflys.

The question is, of course, is that capability something that becomes more cost efficient with reusability or would it still be cheaper all around to throw the spacecraft away? The secure landing is, I think, worth something and the ability to reuse the spacecraft after the precision landing might just be a bonus.

Hmmm. Just spitballin', but I wonder what the operational trade offs would be. Where's Mr. Barton when you need him to develop a cool story from all this.  :)

Paul

Lurkin', where I only have goofy things to say. When I was a teenager (maybe 3 years or so before I made  my first sale), I actually started working on a short story about a manned quick-reaction orbital recon vehicle. It was sort of like Gemini, but with the heat shield on the bottom of the SM, pilot in left ejection seat, camera system in the right,* silo-launched on a big solid-fuel ICBM. I had never heard of the vibration problems, of course. I got about halfway through it and realized I was out of my depth. The rough draft is probably in my files somewhere, and may even turn up when I relocate my office (now firmly scheduled for the end of May, when my lease on this one is up). The story begins as my character lifts off on his mission, and was supposed to transition to an apocalyptic adventure story, as he is in orbit when WW3 starts. "Hmm. I'm in a polar orbit. I can land anywhere. But where...?"

* My theory, ca. 1967, was a camera like that was worth as much as a pilot.

Offline JimO

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #492 on: 03/31/2010 08:59 pm »
My story hits the 'net:

   U.S. Air Force Launches Secret Flying Twinkie
   http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/space-flight/us-air-force-launches-secret-flying-twinkie
   IEEE Spectrum, April 2010

I'm beginning to wonder if the 'excess' delta-v in the booster is for a major propulsive plane change, or for a fast shallow dive leading to an atmospheric lifting turn as a 'proof of concept'.

Offline Kim Keller

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #493 on: 04/02/2010 04:46 pm »
Does anyone know if/when the 501 was delivered to the Cape? Seems like past flights have had the booster show up about 30-45 days out.

It looks like ULA is performing the WDR today.

Offline TimL

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #494 on: 04/02/2010 05:50 pm »
My first snag :)
"Well if we get lost, we'll just pull in someplace and ask for directions"

Offline yg1968

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Offline Kim Keller

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #496 on: 04/03/2010 01:55 pm »
Update from today:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av012/100402x37update/

Hmmmm....autonomous entry and landing. I wonder if it has to carry a range safety package.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #497 on: 04/03/2010 02:03 pm »
Update from today:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av012/100402x37update/

Hmmmm....autonomous entry and landing. I wonder if it has to carry a range safety package.

As it is a military vehicle, it probably has a self-destruct system anyway to stop sensitive avionics, sensors and materials technology potentially falling into hostile hands.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #498 on: 04/03/2010 02:36 pm »
My wild guess about its payload: satellite refueling. From its own fuel tanks.
 Or perhaps reboosting, changing the orbit of other satellites without them using up their own fuel (okay, that one probably isn't it). Maybe on-orbit repair of satellites?
 Those who know don't tell, those who tell don't know...

Anyway, even without a real good payload, it seems to be the perfect vehicle for testing a more perfect Shuttle. It has disproportionally smaller wings (not necessarily as big cross-range... Or perhaps it uses propellant for crossrange?). It has significant integrated fuel tanks. Because it is smaller, its TPS can be modified easier (on subsequent versions, if not the same vehicle), allowing optimization of an easily maintained TPS. Etc.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Jim

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Re: Pre-Launch History: Atlas V - OTV X-37B - April 22, 10
« Reply #499 on: 04/03/2010 03:18 pm »
As it is a military vehicle, it probably has a self-destruct system anyway to stop sensitive avionics, sensors and materials technology potentially falling into hostile hands.

US doesn't do that.

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