Quote from: zen-in on 08/04/2015 07:34 pm{snip}It has become obvious to me the EM-drive is bogus science. I don't believe anything Mr. Shawyer claims. The Eagleworks project just got less and less "thrust". Yang doesn't want to discuss the research she did. Maybe the Chinese authorities see a benefit in using it for a misinformation campaign, akin to the USAF UFO hoax of the 50's. So I don't think it is worth polluting RF spectrum anymore with this pointless activity.Something is causing this box to move.
{snip}It has become obvious to me the EM-drive is bogus science. I don't believe anything Mr. Shawyer claims. The Eagleworks project just got less and less "thrust". Yang doesn't want to discuss the research she did. Maybe the Chinese authorities see a benefit in using it for a misinformation campaign, akin to the USAF UFO hoax of the 50's. So I don't think it is worth polluting RF spectrum anymore with this pointless activity.
I've stumbled across a bit of difficulty.Mr. Shawyer's theory paper cites Cullin, p3, Equation 15 indicates that the force from radiation pressure is proportional to guide wavelength.Jones, p361 Table 1 that the force is in proportion to the phase velocity index of refraction, not the group velocity index.Q: Is there an obvious reason why dielectric materials would behave differently from waveguides in this regard?Thanks.Shawyer's theory Paperhttp://www.emdrive.com/theorypaper9-4.pdfThe Measurement of Optical Radiation Pressure in Dispersive MediaR. V. Jones and B. LeslieProceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series A, Mathematical and Physical SciencesVol. 360, No. 1702 (Apr. 4, 1978), pp. 347-363 http://www.jstor.org/stable/79586Absolute Power Measurement at Microwave Frequencies A.L. Cullen1951, Journal unknown.https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3621645/1951%20Cullen%20Power%20at%20MW%20Frequencies%2011-09-1951.pdf
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Quote from: SeeShells on 08/05/2015 02:53 amHxLargeHxSmallShell, I didn't realize they were both gifs. When I click the big one to enlarge it makes me cross-eyed.
I've stumbled across a bit of difficulty.Mr. Shawyer's theory paper cites Cullin, p3, Equation 15 indicates that the force from radiation pressure is proportional to guide wavelength.Jones, p361 Table 1 that the force is in proportion to the phase velocity index of refraction, not the group velocity index.Q: Is there an obvious reason why dielectric materials would behave differently from waveguides in this regard?
Quote from: Quintaglio on 08/05/2015 01:08 amA theory to the EM Drive ThrustWhen you shine light or thrust from any of the electromagnetic wavelength the object you are hitting will move in the opposite direction and the force applied will bounce off. But when two wavelenghts of different amplitude collide they cancel each other outThe reason the Em Drive has a net thrust in one direction is because when the electromagnetic wave reaches the wide end there is a greater likelihood of the waves being canceled out, equating in a net thrust at the smaller end.It would be simpler to just have a copper plate and bounce the wavelenghts off this.Pieces:1. Two intersecting waves of the same frequency may add or subtract their total amplitudes, depending on if the waves are in phase or not. If the Frequencies are not the same, they will combine to create a new "beat frequency" wave that is lower than both.
A theory to the EM Drive ThrustWhen you shine light or thrust from any of the electromagnetic wavelength the object you are hitting will move in the opposite direction and the force applied will bounce off. But when two wavelenghts of different amplitude collide they cancel each other outThe reason the Em Drive has a net thrust in one direction is because when the electromagnetic wave reaches the wide end there is a greater likelihood of the waves being canceled out, equating in a net thrust at the smaller end.It would be simpler to just have a copper plate and bounce the wavelenghts off this.
Any comments on something else to monitor?
Quote from: TheTraveller on 08/05/2015 08:55 amAny comments on something else to monitor?Filming both end plates with an IR camera to show mode shapes?
During the cordless and totally self contained rotary table EMDrive experiments, the following data will be monitored, data logged and streamed live.Force generated - calculatedAngular velocity - measuredAngular acceleration - calculated & measuredForward Rf power - measuredReflected Rf power - measuredVSWR - calculatedFrequency - measuredRf amp power consumed - measuredInternal frustum pressure - measuredEnd plate, side wall and ambient temperature - measuredAny comments on something else to monitor?
Quote from: aero on 08/05/2015 04:50 amQuote from: SeeShells on 08/05/2015 02:53 amHxLargeHxSmallShell, I didn't realize they were both gifs. When I click the big one to enlarge it makes me cross-eyed.Looks like random bouncing. I don't really see any standing wave pattern to it. The antenna is offset from the middle? In that configuration, you may need to run the simulation longer to develop a standing wave that has more amplitude than the antenna. Once the Q factor takes over in the cavity, the antenna should be a smaller contribution. Since we are looking at such a short slice, and during the turn-on transient, I think what we see has more to do with the antenna than the cavity resonance, IMO.Todd
Quote from: TheTraveller on 08/05/2015 08:55 amDuring the cordless and totally self contained rotary table EMDrive experiments, the following data will be monitored, data logged and streamed live.Force generated - calculatedAngular velocity - measuredAngular acceleration - calculated & measuredForward Rf power - measuredReflected Rf power - measuredVSWR - calculatedFrequency - measuredRf amp power consumed - measuredInternal frustum pressure - measuredEnd plate, side wall and ambient temperature - measuredAny comments on something else to monitor?Time DateLocal Magnetic FieldApx locationTemperatureHumidityA compass close by to viewVibrationDigital Stop WatchHeavy Power Devices locally ie: TransformersAny High Voltage Power Lines Turn off Any Fluorescent Lights or if needed screen in Faraday cage (transformer inside)About all I can think of after the first sip cup of coffee.Shell
Quote from: TheTraveller on 08/05/2015 08:55 amDuring the cordless and totally self contained rotary table EMDrive experiments, the following data will be monitored, data logged and streamed live.Force generated - calculatedAngular velocity - measuredAngular acceleration - calculated & measuredForward Rf power - measuredReflected Rf power - measuredVSWR - calculatedFrequency - measuredRf amp power consumed - measuredInternal frustum pressure - measuredEnd plate, side wall and ambient temperature - measuredAny comments on something else to monitor?If I'm reading Yang's 2014 paper: to quote about 1/2 way through: "When using a work chamber, heat loss makes the skin produce heat deep cavity deformation within the fixed lower {limits?} bolt of thermal expansion and that the wall is outwardly convex; this volume change however is very small."So another one to look for thermal distortion effects on the copper plates particularly perhaps the large flat end plate to causing it to "bow out convex" it may be relevant in making slight volume changes. I'm not sure if you can measure with device powered on. but anyway picking a few set 'reference points' and coming back exactly to those points with a a set of feeler gauges with a steel ruler might do it. note: it maybe that it takes several heating and cooling cycles to see "if" the effect exists [Hot skin on inside, cold skin on outside] for an analogy: Go look at your 'used' frypan in the kitchen and note the way its now has a warped flat surface compared to new. so makes sense to get a baseline now.then again it may not be significant... who knows....?
...The EM-Drive is just a rebranded perpetual motion machine...