Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery  (Read 35128 times)

Online nacnud

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #120 on: 10/02/2017 07:53 PM »
It's interesting sci-fi, but it's not star trek. Shame the concepts in this would have been better explored outside the trek franchise and both are diminished because of this. Gona watch it though because it's fun.

For how to do this right, see The Expanse.

Offline mme

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #121 on: 10/02/2017 08:32 PM »
It's interesting sci-fi, but it's not star trek. Shame the concepts in this would have been better explored outside the trek franchise and both are diminished because of this. Gona watch it though because it's fun.

For how to do this right, see The Expanse.
Spoiler Alert - don't read a thread about a show if you don't want spoilers. :)

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I'm not buying the "it's not Star Trek" just yet.  It's clearly a post-scarcity society that is much more interested in exploration and science than war. But they aren't perfect and they stumbled into a war. Everyone is blaming Burnham's mutiny on starting the war but that's plain wrong (though the mutiny was a complete boneheaded move and she should be in prison for it.) The question ultimately is how do they navigate prosecuting a war?

I do miss (mostly) squeaky clean Picard but I'm willing to see what Lorca does with the midichlorians^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hspace-spores and space-tardigrade.

Basically I'm hoping that might-makes-right does not prevail.

I'm confused what tech Discovery has that TOS did not (besides space-spores and touch screens.) To me it just looks like better special effects. Warp drive, phasers, photon torpedoes, shields, tractor beams...
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #122 on: 10/02/2017 09:07 PM »
I’d like to weigh in here. This show is the most exciting, innovative and gripping version of trek yet. The previous treks played happy families too much and had rather childish characters. This trek has properly defined Klingons - the culture and religion introduced in TNG finally makes sense. I love that we are left wanting a trek based on the shenzhou crew but actually have something far different that holds the shenzhou up as something to strive for. It will get there in the end but I wouldn’t expect every character to survive the journey.
We have often seen “ship gone wrong” episodes or black ops episodes in trek, this series will take a deeper look into that world.
Saru is the most amazing trek alien yet. He can tell an entire story with his eyes and a tilt of the head. The new human characters are much more real than any in previous series. I’m excited to find out how they present the andorians!
And there are mysteries in story and characters that are left to unfold as the series progresses.
This feels like Star Trek for adults and I’m eagerly awaiting the next episode! 9/10
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Offline QuantumG

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #123 on: 10/02/2017 09:42 PM »
Further, the new technobabble miracle-tech is something not even hinted at in previous Treks, marking this as clearly yet another alternate universe of some description.

Star Trek is full of mad scientists getting some fantastic new technology to work which then mysteriously goes away at the end of the episode.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online nacnud

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #124 on: 10/02/2017 09:44 PM »
Star Trek is full of mad scientists getting some fantastic new technology to work which then mysteriously goes away at the end of the episode.

Sums up why I'm not a trek fan :)

Offline Star One

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Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #125 on: 10/02/2017 10:52 PM »
It's interesting sci-fi, but it's not star trek. Shame the concepts in this would have been better explored outside the trek franchise and both are diminished because of this. Gona watch it though because it's fun.

For how to do this right, see The Expanse.

At least this show isn’t a bore like the Expanse. I am really liking it so far and the lead actress is brilliant and it was a wise move to use her as a fixed viewpoint character. Which is a first for Trek.

I’d like to weigh in here. This show is the most exciting, innovative and gripping version of trek yet. The previous treks played happy families too much and had rather childish characters. This trek has properly defined Klingons - the culture and religion introduced in TNG finally makes sense. I love that we are left wanting a trek based on the shenzhou crew but actually have something far different that holds the shenzhou up as something to strive for. It will get there in the end but I wouldn’t expect every character to survive the journey.
We have often seen “ship gone wrong” episodes or black ops episodes in trek, this series will take a deeper look into that world.
Saru is the most amazing trek alien yet. He can tell an entire story with his eyes and a tilt of the head. The new human characters are much more real than any in previous series. I’m excited to find out how they present the andorians!
And there are mysteries in story and characters that are left to unfold as the series progresses.
This feels like Star Trek for adults and I’m eagerly awaiting the next episode! 9/10

Spot on completely agree with all of this.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2017 10:54 PM by Star One »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #126 on: 10/03/2017 08:30 AM »
I’d like to weigh in here. This show is the most exciting, innovative and gripping version of trek yet. The previous treks played happy families too much and had rather childish characters. This trek has properly defined Klingons - the culture and religion introduced in TNG finally makes sense. I love that we are left wanting a trek based on the shenzhou crew but actually have something far different that holds the shenzhou up as something to strive for. It will get there in the end but I wouldn’t expect every character to survive the journey.

We have often seen “ship gone wrong” episodes or black ops episodes in trek, this series will take a deeper look into that world.

Saru is the most amazing trek alien yet. He can tell an entire story with his eyes and a tilt of the head. The new human characters are much more real than any in previous series. I’m excited to find out how they present the andorians!

And there are mysteries in story and characters that are left to unfold as the series progresses.

This feels like Star Trek for adults and I’m eagerly awaiting the next episode! 9/10

Disagree with all of this except with what you said about Cmdr Saru. I have good memories of Rene Aubegonois' performance as Odo in Deep Space Nine. As he put it: "A good actor can be expressive whilst wearing a paper plate over their face."
« Last Edit: 10/03/2017 08:32 AM by Ben the Space Brit »
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Offline Star One

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #127 on: 10/03/2017 11:52 AM »
I’d like to weigh in here. This show is the most exciting, innovative and gripping version of trek yet. The previous treks played happy families too much and had rather childish characters. This trek has properly defined Klingons - the culture and religion introduced in TNG finally makes sense. I love that we are left wanting a trek based on the shenzhou crew but actually have something far different that holds the shenzhou up as something to strive for. It will get there in the end but I wouldn’t expect every character to survive the journey.

We have often seen “ship gone wrong” episodes or black ops episodes in trek, this series will take a deeper look into that world.

Saru is the most amazing trek alien yet. He can tell an entire story with his eyes and a tilt of the head. The new human characters are much more real than any in previous series. I’m excited to find out how they present the andorians!

And there are mysteries in story and characters that are left to unfold as the series progresses.

This feels like Star Trek for adults and I’m eagerly awaiting the next episode! 9/10

Disagree with all of this except with what you said about Cmdr Saru. I have good memories of Rene Aubegonois' performance as Odo in Deep Space Nine. As he put it: "A good actor can be expressive whilst wearing a paper plate over their face."

No doubt you’re one of these Trek fans online who seem to want to keep the franchise in aspic so it never really progresses.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #128 on: 10/03/2017 12:11 PM »
No, I'm one of those Star Trek fans who think that change for change's sake, especially change for the sake of appealing to the disturbing fascination with 'dark' characters and stories that is increasingly prevalent in society is missing what Star Trek is supposed to be about and trying to get ratings by pandering to all the most dangerous and destructive cultural trends.
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Offline Star One

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Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #129 on: 10/03/2017 12:47 PM »
No, I'm one of those Star Trek fans who think that change for change's sake, especially change for the sake of appealing to the disturbing fascination with 'dark' characters and stories that is increasingly prevalent in society is missing what Star Trek is supposed to be about and trying to get ratings by pandering to all the most dangerous and destructive cultural trends.

And to me that’s an over reaction, verging on the ludicrous to call it disturbing, in that if you think these characters are really all that dark in the context of well thought of shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, or the general TV landscape then you need to watch more. The kind of darkness on display in this show is very much 12 rated and it’s all the better for it. And certainly no worse than what you might get in a Halloween episode of The Simpson’s.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2017 12:49 PM by Star One »

Offline Oli

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #130 on: 10/03/2017 08:59 PM »
I don't mind 'gritty drama' but too many shows try it nowadays and fail, including this one. It also feels out of place in the Trek universe.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2017 09:00 PM by Oli »

Offline Firehawk153

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #131 on: 10/03/2017 10:31 PM »
I don't mind 'gritty drama' but too many shows try it nowadays and fail, including this one. It also feels out of place in the Trek universe.

Agree.  I'm withholding full judgement until I've seen several more episodes but this was almost "Mirror Universe" levels of darkness.  Lorca reminds me a lot of mirror universe Kirk.

As far as the other characters the blonde Science officer goes down in my book as the most annoying ST character EVER (even beyond Wesley Crusher) while Saru is the most compelling and interesting.  Saru's moral compass also seems to be more in tune with "classic trek" as well.

It also seems that while the screenwriters claim this is set in the Prime universe it seems to be more of a re-imagined Prime universe.  More like what the JJ-verse would look like if Nero never went back in time in the first place.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2017 10:32 PM by Firehawk153 »

Offline vapour_nudge

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #132 on: 10/03/2017 10:36 PM »
I don't mind 'gritty drama' but too many shows try it nowadays and fail, including this one. It also feels out of place in the Trek universe.

Agree.  I'm withholding full judgement until I've seen several more episodes but this was almost "Mirror Universe" levels of darkness.  Lorca reminds me a lot of mirror universe Kirk.

As far as the other characters the blonde Science officer goes down in my book as the most annoying ST character EVER (even beyond Wesley Crusher) while Saru is the most compelling and interesting.  Saru's moral compass also seems to be more in tune with "classic trek" as well.

It also seems that while the screenwriters claim this is set in the Prime universe it seems to be more of a re-imagined Prime universe.  More like what the JJ-verse would look like if Nero never went back in time in the first place.
Mods, lock the thread. Someone just mentioned Wesley Crusher 😜
« Last Edit: 10/03/2017 10:37 PM by vapour_nudge »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #133 on: 10/04/2017 06:53 PM »
Mods, lock the thread. Someone just mentioned Wesley Crusher 😜

I was never a fan, until Wil Wheaton produced this, which is probably the best Star Trek story ever:

http://www.subspace-comms.net/index.php?topic=1424.0


Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #134 on: 10/09/2017 02:22 AM »
Discovery just name-dropped Elon Musk (very briefly, irrelevant to the plot). I hope they don't jinx this whole Mars thing.
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Offline spacenut

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #135 on: 10/09/2017 02:34 AM »
Heard that, but it isn't the old type Star Trek.  I kind of like Orville better.  You can tell it is more "Star Trekie".  Discovery is so serious.  There is war, and what is it with the new Klingons.  At least the old Klingon women looked better.  They are supposed to be "humanoid", but they look far from it. 

Offline Cherokee43v6

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #136 on: 10/09/2017 01:59 PM »
Speaking as a now disinterested outside observer who is using these discussions to decide if he will Netflix this once it is available there I do have the following comment for those complaining about the darkness involved with 'Lord High Emperor Starship Captains'.

Whom Gods Destroy (Garth of Izar... Kirk's hero)
Bread and Circuses
Doomsday Machine
Omega Glory
Patterns of Force (Antagonist was SF Academy instructor)
Obsession (Kirk himself goes round the twist)

And Federation society is not all puppies and roses
Conscience of the King

What made Star Trek 'Star Trek' was that it DID do dark and gritty.  But it did it by examining the consequences of taking that step too far.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2017 02:01 PM by Cherokee43v6 »
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #137 on: 10/09/2017 02:59 PM »
Speaking as a now disinterested outside observer who is using these discussions to decide if he will Netflix this once it is available there I do have the following comment for those complaining about the darkness involved with 'Lord High Emperor Starship Captains'.

SNIP

What made Star Trek 'Star Trek' was that it DID do dark and gritty.  But it did it by examining the consequences of taking that step too far.

I think an important difference is that now we have an entire series that is dealing with the dark and gritty, not just a single episode.

I am liking the stories and the series, but my problem is that it doesn't feel like Star Trek. It lacks the optimism and the exploring strange new worlds aspects. And it's just dumped all over canon, treating the stuff that has been established in hundreds of previous episodes as if it is disposable. I don't want to get all spoilery here, but not only have they ignored things that have been established as "real" for the time period that this show depicts (like Klingons have flat foreheads during this time period), but they are doing things that don't exist in all the later series.

So my problem is that the people running Discovery don't seem to really want to do Star Trek. They want to do their own thing. That's fine, they have talent. But why call it Star Trek if you're going to ignore so much of what happened before?

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #138 on: 10/09/2017 05:25 PM »
So my problem is that the people running Discovery don't seem to really want to do Star Trek. They want to do their own thing. That's fine, they have talent. But why call it Star Trek if you're going to ignore so much of what happened before?

To prove that they know better than the previous writers, directors and producers and that Star Trek would have been much better with them in charge from the start.
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Offline whatever11235

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #139 on: 10/09/2017 06:15 PM »
Even though i really like new Star Trek, this cloak and dagger, ignore the rule book, deviousness isn't really Federation mo. It will be interesting to see how the season unfolds.

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