Author Topic: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2  (Read 1356768 times)

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4060 on: 01/08/2009 03:19 pm »
Sounds fun.

If you are in DC, the Hawk and Dove isn't a bad place for a drink.

Good luck, by the way!
« Last Edit: 01/08/2009 03:19 pm by bobthemonkey »

Offline jeff.findley

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4061 on: 01/08/2009 03:23 pm »
O.k.  I really like the cover.  Congrats!  Consider the popular distribution of PM, I agree that this is a *good thing*.

Offline Yegor

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4062 on: 01/08/2009 03:37 pm »
I managed to get my laptop to connect, so now I can keep a close eye on zapkitty.   That bleedin' cat is gonna enjoy a visit to the vet if he keeps on making a mess all over the place ;) LOL

And Yegor, yeah, I know what you mean.   We're not going to have much internet access for a few days, and very little time too, so we (Chuck and I) are going "quiet", but I hear ya -- I've had that "waiting for a bus" feeling all week, we've been waiting for ages and suddenly a whole line of things are all happening at the same time -- all the buses came at once!

I've had about 6 hours sleep in the last three day and I'm pretty sure I've got a full couple of days ahead of me.   I can't talk about any of the details yet, but now is the time to wish us luck!

Ross.

Wow, well, I wish you all the luck!


Offline Quintus

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4063 on: 01/08/2009 03:54 pm »
Good Luck chaps!

Offline Yegor

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4064 on: 01/08/2009 04:03 pm »
I've had about 6 hours sleep in the last three day and I'm pretty sure I've got a full couple of days ahead of me.   I can't talk about any of the details yet, but now is the time to wish us luck!

Ross.

Hey, Ross, take it easy, get a good sleep - we need you in a good health.


Offline guru

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4065 on: 01/08/2009 04:38 pm »
So, Ross and Chuck are going to be on an episode of Battlestar Galactica?

Offline kkattula

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4066 on: 01/08/2009 04:40 pm »

The Direct EDS is not a typical stage. It has a better mass fraction than any hydrogen stage that has ever flown, by a considerable margin. Look here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15377.msg347878#msg347878

Conveniently not counting the Space Shuttle External Tank of course...

The SWLT ET masses 26.5 t and holds 735 t of propellant, compared to the proposed Jupiter EDS dry mass of 17.5 t (less engines) and 359.1 t of propellant.

Yes that's right, the ET holds 100% more yet weighs only 50% more than what's claimed for Jupiter EDS. And a big chunk of the ET mass is the intertank containing the SRB thrust structure, (it actually outweighs the LOX tank).

Jupiter EDS doesn't look nearly so cutting edge now, does it? And don't give me that "the External Tank isn't a real stage, it doesn't have engines" BS. The above link is comparing stages, less engines, and the ET has more than equivalent thrust structures, etc.


Offline Will

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4067 on: 01/08/2009 04:56 pm »

The Direct EDS is not a typical stage. It has a better mass fraction than any hydrogen stage that has ever flown, by a considerable margin. Look here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15377.msg347878#msg347878

Conveniently not counting the Space Shuttle External Tank of course...

The SWLT ET masses 26.5 t and holds 735 t of propellant, compared to the proposed Jupiter EDS dry mass of 17.5 t (less engines) and 359.1 t of propellant.

Yes that's right, the ET holds 100% more yet weighs only 50% more than what's claimed for Jupiter EDS. And a big chunk of the ET mass is the intertank containing the SRB thrust structure, (it actually outweighs the LOX tank).

Jupiter EDS doesn't look nearly so cutting edge now, does it? And don't give me that "the External Tank isn't a real stage, it doesn't have engines" BS. The above link is comparing stages, less engines, and the ET has more than equivalent thrust structures, etc.



Well, it isn't a real stage. Look what happens when Direct does the bare minimum necessary to turn it into one for the Jupiter first stage.

Offline Jose

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4068 on: 01/08/2009 05:07 pm »
Please go purchase a copy!

Much too lazy to go huntin' through stores for a copy.  Just subscribed for a year.  Hope it starts with this issue, or I'm going to be disappointed.  And I'll have to go to a store then anyway.

BTW, if anyone else is thinkin' about subscribing through their website, follow the red "subscribe" link at the top.  It's $10 that way vs. the $12 they want if you follow the "current issue" link.
« Last Edit: 01/08/2009 05:09 pm by Jose »

Offline veedriver22

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4069 on: 01/08/2009 05:20 pm »
 W O W.   Looking forward to reading the magazine article.   

We have that,  Grifs resignation,  and obviously more to come!!!!!
You guys deserve so much credit.  Outstanding.
It would be one thing to organize and design an alternative to ARES.
But what I am really impressed with is your continued effort.
You have kept at it both on the promotional side, refining the designs,
as well as working out additional configurations & missions.

 I wish you the best.  And if you succeed we may get to see things we didn't think were possible in our lifetimes.     

Offline gladiator1332

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4070 on: 01/08/2009 05:42 pm »
Good luck guys! Catch you on the flip side

Offline imcub

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4071 on: 01/08/2009 05:47 pm »
So when NASA announced Ares I/V ... did they make the cover of Popular Mechanics? 

Offline texas_space

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4072 on: 01/08/2009 05:51 pm »
Congrats to the DIRECT team on making PM's cover!

Best of luck guys!
"We went to the moon nine times. Why fake it nine times, if we faked it?" - Charlie Duke

Online Herb Schaltegger

Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4073 on: 01/08/2009 06:02 pm »
Well, it isn't a real stage.

Sure it is; it's one with side-mounted, jettisonable engines and controls. :)

Structurally it's a stage.  Get over it and pick something else to poke at.
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4074 on: 01/08/2009 06:15 pm »
Well, it isn't a real stage.

Sure it is; it's one with side-mounted, jettisonable engines and controls. :)

Structurally it's a stage.  Get over it and pick something else to poke at.


It's not a good idea to dismiss criticism.
DIRECT will be reviewed by NASA under their own terms. NASA have designed an upper stage for the Ares-V, and it comes out at a much more conservative dry mass than JUS. Hence they will try to criticise the JUS. A 'pre-rebuttal' is needed to ensure that JUS's numbers can be verifed.

My main worry about the JUS is thus: we all know that Ares-V is being pushed to greater performance (six engines, bigger SRBs, composites, etc). If a significantly better EDS is possible, why haven't NASA adopted such a design?

Other than the EDS, my main worry for DIRECT is the cost numbers. How do you buy a much larger tank, PLF, and thrust structure, an RS68, an SRB nozzle and recovery system, and three SRB segments, for only $15m?*

It's all very well cutting DIRECT some slack in this forum. But don't expect NASA to play that nicely. We need the proposal to be as tough as nails to stand up to whatever NASA can throw at it.

* this number assumes that Ares-I's J2X costs $25m and an RS68 is only $20m.
"I don't care what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do"- Gene Kranz

Offline daver

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4075 on: 01/08/2009 06:17 pm »
So, Ross and Chuck are going to be on an episode of Battlestar Galactica?

Good luck Ross and Chuck!

            SO SAY WE ALL!

Offline Nascent Ascent

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4076 on: 01/08/2009 06:19 pm »
Is it me or does anyone else see a vision in the exhaust plume?

 ;D


Online Herb Schaltegger

Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4077 on: 01/08/2009 06:21 pm »
Well, it isn't a real stage.

Sure it is; it's one with side-mounted, jettisonable engines and controls. :)

Structurally it's a stage.  Get over it and pick something else to poke at.


It's not a good idea to dismiss criticism.
DIRECT will be reviewed by NASA under their own terms.

I'm not dismissing it - this topic has been beaten to death over the last few weeks and Ross and Chuck have clearly stated DIRECT's rationale, as well as their desire for a truly independent review by an outside party.  A NASA "review" is the last thing America's manned space program needs (at least until after a new Administrator is sworn in and take over).

For that matter, NASA really ought to get out of the whole "design" business and get back to what it SHOULD be doing: overseeing contractors who do the real work.
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4078 on: 01/08/2009 06:22 pm »
Wow, that's a nice cover and on a big publication.

Is that one of your graphics Pheogh?

So, Ross and Chuck are going to be on an episode of Battlestar Galactica?

Moon, Mars and New Caprica? ;)
« Last Edit: 01/08/2009 06:25 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline Pheogh

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Re: DIRECT v2.0 - Thread 2
« Reply #4079 on: 01/08/2009 06:32 pm »
Wow, that's a nice cover and on a big publication.

Is that one of your graphics Pheogh?

So, Ross and Chuck are going to be on an episode of Battlestar Galactica?

Moon, Mars and New Caprica? ;)

Alas unfortunately no, although they did reference much of my artwork. Some German company is credited on the inside cover. Still its a great image and of course a huge deal for Direct :)

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