"It is assumed that the ECLSS hardware would be required to be designed, developed, and delivered to the Prime integrator approximately two years ahead of the launch date to accommodate system level integration, and sufficient testing to thoroughly vet the practical operating characteristics, limits and weaknesses. This drives an ECLSS hardware delivery date of February, 2016."Also says:"The volume and mass considerations have limited the crew number to two individuals. At a current value of roughly 7m3, the representative spacecraft free volume is deemed adequate. However, given the requirement for food and water storage and additional equipment and access, the free volume could shrink considerably. Prior studies we have performed indicated that for this mission duration, crew volumes of less than 3-5 m3 per person would border on untenable. Available crew volume is a significant consideration for this mission."
Which of these do people think we can expect someone to live, exercise, prepare food, perform bodily functions and work in for 500 days? Then double it for two people.
Quote from: Dalhousie on 02/25/2013 12:08 amWhich of these do people think we can expect someone to live, exercise, prepare food, perform bodily functions and work in for 500 days? Then double it for two people.If you believe NASA's numbers, ~5.1m3/person "tolerable" for a 180-620 day mission duration. Then again, a couple committed participants might do with less.
Here are further answers relating to concerns that have been advanced.1. Habitable volume.As noted, if the Dragon capsule alone is used, this provides 5 m3 living volume per crew member, which compares to 2 m3 per crew on an Apollo capsule, 9 m3 per crew member on the Space Shuttle, or 8 m3 per crew member on a German U-Boat (Type VII, the fleet workhorse) during WWII. This would be uncomfortable, but ultimately, workable by a truly dedicated crew. However these limits can be transcended. The Dragon has a 14m3 cargo area hold below the aeroshield. Into this we could pack an inflatable hab module, in deflated form, but which if inflated, could be as much as 8 m in diameter and perhaps 10 m long, thereby providing 3 decks, with added volume of 502 m3 and a total floor space equal to 1.5 times as much as that in the Mars Society's MDRS or FMARS stations, which have proved adequate in size for crews of 6. After Trans Mars injection, the Dragon would pull away from the cargo section and turn around, then return to mate its docking hatch with one in the inflatable. It would then pull the inflatable out of the cargo hold, much as the Apollo command module pulled out the LEM. The inflatable could then be inflated. The other end of the inflatable would be attached to the tether, which is connected to the TMI stage, for use in creating artificial gravity.
...(Why don't Tito & Co just go to Antarctica and build a city there? ...)
(Why don't Tito & Co just go to Antarctica and build a city there? At least it's closer and has a damn atmosphere, if nothing else)
I think that the strenuous conditions/duration of a circum-Mars mission would require Bigelow's biggest hab, the BA-2100/Olympus, or maybe even something larger. Bigelow's hab ambitions seem limited only by the size of available launch vehicles, and if/when the Falcon Heavy successor or MCT comes around then I'd bet he'd go in for an even bigger hab to fit the max payload capacity. The bigger the better, of course.
Quote from: sanman on 02/25/2013 05:21 am...(Why don't Tito & Co just go to Antarctica and build a city there? ...)There are actually a lot of reasons you can't do that, most of them political/legal (it's treated as a kind of giant international park/reserve... you can't do any mining, nothing can be completely permanent; all the land is claimed by one nation or another so if you violate these rules you're asking for trouble). Though I would support an effort to do so.
Trying to put free volumes into terms people can visualise. 2.5 m3 ~ domestic shower cubical (or airline toilet)3.7 m3 ~ domestic toilet cubical6.3 m ~ walk in wardrobe7.5 m3 ~ on-suite15 m3 ~ domestic bathroom23 m3 ~ very small hotel room, no bathroom30 m3 ~ small hotel room & on-suiteWhich of these do people think we can expect someone to live, exercise, prepare food, perform bodily functions and work in for 500 days? Then double it for two people.
Quote from: joek on 02/25/2013 12:25 amQuote from: Dalhousie on 02/25/2013 12:08 amWhich of these do people think we can expect someone to live, exercise, prepare food, perform bodily functions and work in for 500 days? Then double it for two people.If you believe NASA's numbers, ~5.1m3/person "tolerable" for a 180-620 day mission duration. Then again, a couple committed participants might do with less. It is the tolerable lower limit. Anything less is intolerable. Five hundred days in the free space of a large walk-in wardrobe. It is also the free space. Triple it for pressurised volume.
Quote from: Bob Shaw on 02/24/2013 03:29 pmEr... ...how do we know they're talking about a manned mission? Perhaps it's a demo flight by living creatures there and back again. Ideally, you'd kill off a sample and freeze it every now and then (75 soup-can containers containing shrimp, water, lights... ...freeze 'em hard and fast, one can a week, and do the science after splashdown). Or, just send seeds (animal sperm or plants) and distribute them a la the Moon Trees, one Mars Mouse and a Mars Tree to every school in the US...Because an unmanned mission would need to be a landing mission, and we "know" that life support is involved. So... oh, maybe we are back to Elons first vision of a mission to mars, the little plant thing....
Er... ...how do we know they're talking about a manned mission? Perhaps it's a demo flight by living creatures there and back again. Ideally, you'd kill off a sample and freeze it every now and then (75 soup-can containers containing shrimp, water, lights... ...freeze 'em hard and fast, one can a week, and do the science after splashdown). Or, just send seeds (animal sperm or plants) and distribute them a la the Moon Trees, one Mars Mouse and a Mars Tree to every school in the US...