Quote from: Rodal on 08/03/2015 01:48 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 08/03/2015 01:46 pm...The TE modes are a better way to add stress into the frustum walls and one of the reasons I picked a TE mode.This bears emphasizing: there has NOT been a single Meep computer run (csv file for sure, and I don't recall seeing any images for TE mode excitation either) for Yang/Shell exciting the frustum in a TE (transverse electric) mode. Not even one. Nada. Zilch.I'm not sure what to do with this Jose. What do you expect me to do? I pretty much know what I'm going to see with this 6 degree frustum and like I said a few pages ago it is a start. So if your intent is to get me so upset that I leave this forum by beating this dead horse into the ground, continue on this thread and I'll oblige you.I have the other side of the build to finish so I'm off to the shop.Shell
Quote from: SeeShells on 08/03/2015 01:46 pm...The TE modes are a better way to add stress into the frustum walls and one of the reasons I picked a TE mode.This bears emphasizing: there has NOT been a single Meep computer run (csv file for sure, and I don't recall seeing any images for TE mode excitation either) for Yang/Shell exciting the frustum in a TE (transverse electric) mode. Not even one. Nada. Zilch.
...The TE modes are a better way to add stress into the frustum walls and one of the reasons I picked a TE mode.
Quote from: Flyby on 08/03/2015 03:55 pmI doubt it will be in a non-metal material. All those materials, except ceramics, have very low melting points.so it has to be in a metal... Titanium would be excluded, as I know from colleagues that it prices around 50euro/cm³....expensive to build solid welled objects in... http://www.amazon.com/One-Pound-999-Fine-Titanium/dp/B007RFTC7I shows a one-pound bar of .999fine titanium selling for less than $50, which is much less than 50 euros per cubic centimeter. Did you mean platinum?
I doubt it will be in a non-metal material. All those materials, except ceramics, have very low melting points.so it has to be in a metal... Titanium would be excluded, as I know from colleagues that it prices around 50euro/cm³....expensive to build solid welled objects in...
... I am also more convinced by the theory that TE excitation is not possible...
Prior to the TM211 evaluations, COMSOL® analysis indicated that the TE012 was an effective thrust generation mode for the tapered cavity thruster being evaluated, so this mode was explored early in the evaluation process. Figure 22 shows a test run at the TE012 mode with an operating frequency of 1880.4 MHz. The measured quality factor was ~22,000, with a COMSOL prediction of 21,817. The measured power applied to the test article was measured to be 2.6 watts, and the (net) measured thrust was 55.4 micronewtons. With an input power of 2.6 watts, correcting for the quality factor, the predicted thrust is 50 micronewtons. However, since the TE012 mode had numerous other RF modes in very close proximity, it was impractical to repeatedly operate the system in this mode, so the decision was made to evaluate the TM211 modes instead
I smell a tensed atmosphere. This is why I am saying that simulation and optimization work should be the next point but not the present. You will not arrive at a consensus at this moment, because there is no real way to say who is right or wrong (although I am also more convinced by the theory that TE excitation is not possible).Regardless of optimization, one should try to rebuild a frustrum with the same dimensions and material parameters as Shawyer's original drive (or use EW parameters) and find someone who has the means to let a high power microwave input > 100 kW inside the frustrum. I am not saying this is an "elegant" way but this is all not about elegance, we have to demonstrate undeniable experimental fact.Because measurements of µN or mN will not help us either. We need a visible effect to convince the scientific community and we have to convince the scientific community if we want the situation to change.I think we should concentrate on this. Who could have the means and could be willing to do this? How can we contact this person/organization?Let us think and find a way
Quote from: DaCunha on 08/03/2015 04:21 pm... I am also more convinced by the theory that TE excitation is not possible...The only reason why the TE mode has not been excited in the Meep software models run by aero is because aero has run Meep models using dipole antennas, as aero has explained, because he did not have a software means ready to simulate a loop antenna in Meep. TE modes are more readily excited with a loop antenna, rather than a dipole antenna. X-Ray has suggested how to excite a TE mode with a dipole antenna but it requires to be done at a precise location and orientation which depends on the geometry. Theoretically there is no problem in exciting TE012 in the Yang/Shell actual fustrum geometry if suitable means are used. NASA has reported practical problems exciting TE012 in their NASA report (http://www.libertariannews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/AnomalousThrustProductionFromanRFTestDevice-BradyEtAl.pdf ).Quote from: Brady et alPrior to the TM211 evaluations, COMSOL® analysis indicated that the TE012 was an effective thrust generation mode for the tapered cavity thruster being evaluated, so this mode was explored early in the evaluation process. Figure 22 shows a test run at the TE012 mode with an operating frequency of 1880.4 MHz. The measured quality factor was ~22,000, with a COMSOL prediction of 21,817. The measured power applied to the test article was measured to be 2.6 watts, and the (net) measured thrust was 55.4 micronewtons. With an input power of 2.6 watts, correcting for the quality factor, the predicted thrust is 50 micronewtons. However, since the TE012 mode had numerous other RF modes in very close proximity, it was impractical to repeatedly operate the system in this mode, so the decision was made to evaluate the TM211 modes instead Shawyer and TheTraveller report that Shawyer has excited TE012 and TE013 in Shawyer's EM Drives and so has Yang reported exciting the TE012 mode.
Quote from: Rodal on 08/03/2015 04:34 pmQuote from: DaCunha on 08/03/2015 04:21 pm... I am also more convinced by the theory that TE excitation is not possible...The only reason why the TE mode has not been excited in the Meep software models run by aero is because aero has run Meep models using dipole antennas, as aero has explained, because he did not have a software means ready to simulate a loop antenna in Meep. TE modes are more readily excited with a loop antenna, rather than a dipole antenna. X-Ray has suggested how to excite a TE mode with a dipole antenna but it requires to be done at a precise location and orientation which depends on the geometry. Theoretically there is no problem in exciting TE012 in the Yang/Shell actual fustrum geometry if suitable means are used. NASA has reported practical problems exciting TE012 in their NASA report (http://www.libertariannews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/AnomalousThrustProductionFromanRFTestDevice-BradyEtAl.pdf ).Quote from: Brady et alPrior to the TM211 evaluations, COMSOL® analysis indicated that the TE012 was an effective thrust generation mode for the tapered cavity thruster being evaluated, so this mode was explored early in the evaluation process. Figure 22 shows a test run at the TE012 mode with an operating frequency of 1880.4 MHz. The measured quality factor was ~22,000, with a COMSOL prediction of 21,817. The measured power applied to the test article was measured to be 2.6 watts, and the (net) measured thrust was 55.4 micronewtons. With an input power of 2.6 watts, correcting for the quality factor, the predicted thrust is 50 micronewtons. However, since the TE012 mode had numerous other RF modes in very close proximity, it was impractical to repeatedly operate the system in this mode, so the decision was made to evaluate the TM211 modes instead Shawyer and TheTraveller report that Shawyer has excited TE012 and TE013 in Shawyer's EM Drives and so has Yang reported exciting the TE012 mode.In a cylindrical waveguide, with planar wave fronts, it is simple to excite TE01 mode using a straight 1/4 lambda0 (external wavelength) stub antenna placed 1/4 lambdag (internal TE01 mode guide wavelength) away from an end plate.
....I expect my cordless and battery powered 100W EMDrive and rotary test rig to accelerate from 0 rpm to at least 120 rpm, with heaps of data being recorded and streamed live over the internet.Will be almost impossible to deny the results, unless someone chooses to believes it is all a very elaborate trick.
Just want to make sure I am reading Tajmar's paper correctly here. His testing in hard vacuum only used the magnetic damper and did not feature the oil damper. Right? For curiosity's sake, is it even possible to use an oil damper in vacuum? Would the oil boil off and coat everything? What would be a suitable fluid?
I have 3 computers busy running $$$ paying statistical work. Won't be able to calculate that today, perhaps tonight?. (I only have 2 Mathematica licenses and both are running several hour long programs at the moment). Mathematica does not allow you to run more simultaneous processes than the number of Mathematica licenses you have.
...Interesting - and I know Mathematica allows GPU acceleration. Are you availing yourself of that with a GPU (and if not, why not)?
Quote from: TheTraveller on 08/03/2015 04:42 pm....I expect my cordless and battery powered 100W EMDrive and rotary test rig to accelerate from 0 rpm to at least 120 rpm, with heaps of data being recorded and streamed live over the internet.Will be almost impossible to deny the results, unless someone chooses to believes it is all a very elaborate trick.Keep in mind that your setup will have to convince the skeptics that claim you're rotation is due to vibration.So you'll need to be able to have everything switched on , yet not load the cavity and another option that does load the cavity. If the loaded cavity produces circular motion and the unloaded cavity does not, then you have your path to immortality... but not sooner...maybe build a deflector+absorption chamber that can absorb of the waves?
Quote from: TheTraveller on 08/03/2015 04:52 pmQuote from: Rodal on 08/03/2015 04:34 pmQuote from: DaCunha on 08/03/2015 04:21 pm... I am also more convinced by the theory that TE excitation is not possible...The only reason why the TE mode has not been excited in the Meep software models run by aero is because aero has run Meep models using dipole antennas, as aero has explained, because he did not have a software means ready to simulate a loop antenna in Meep. TE modes are more readily excited with a loop antenna, rather than a dipole antenna. X-Ray has suggested how to excite a TE mode with a dipole antenna but it requires to be done at a precise location and orientation which depends on the geometry. Theoretically there is no problem in exciting TE012 in the Yang/Shell actual fustrum geometry if suitable means are used. NASA has reported practical problems exciting TE012 in their NASA report (http://www.libertariannews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/AnomalousThrustProductionFromanRFTestDevice-BradyEtAl.pdf ).Quote from: Brady et alPrior to the TM211 evaluations, COMSOL® analysis indicated that the TE012 was an effective thrust generation mode for the tapered cavity thruster being evaluated, so this mode was explored early in the evaluation process. Figure 22 shows a test run at the TE012 mode with an operating frequency of 1880.4 MHz. The measured quality factor was ~22,000, with a COMSOL prediction of 21,817. The measured power applied to the test article was measured to be 2.6 watts, and the (net) measured thrust was 55.4 micronewtons. With an input power of 2.6 watts, correcting for the quality factor, the predicted thrust is 50 micronewtons. However, since the TE012 mode had numerous other RF modes in very close proximity, it was impractical to repeatedly operate the system in this mode, so the decision was made to evaluate the TM211 modes instead Shawyer and TheTraveller report that Shawyer has excited TE012 and TE013 in Shawyer's EM Drives and so has Yang reported exciting the TE012 mode.In a cylindrical waveguide, with planar wave fronts, it is simple to excite TE01 mode using a straight 1/4 lambda0 (external wavelength) stub antenna placed 1/4 lambdag (internal TE01 mode guide wavelength) away from an end plate.Sorry, but that's wrong. Based on your drawing you want to excite the TE11.
Quote from: Flyby on 08/03/2015 06:04 pmQuote from: TheTraveller on 08/03/2015 04:42 pm....I expect my cordless and battery powered 100W EMDrive and rotary test rig to accelerate from 0 rpm to at least 120 rpm, with heaps of data being recorded and streamed live over the internet.Will be almost impossible to deny the results, unless someone chooses to believes it is all a very elaborate trick.Keep in mind that your setup will have to convince the skeptics that claim you're rotation is due to vibration.So you'll need to be able to have everything switched on , yet not load the cavity and another option that does load the cavity. If the loaded cavity produces circular motion and the unloaded cavity does not, then you have your path to immortality... but not sooner...maybe build a deflector+absorption chamber that can absorb of the waves? Well-devised control experiments are key to successful verification. So here's a suggestion in very rough and qualitative form. Since you plan building a self-contained rotator (which IMO is by far the best demonstration option), you are going to need something to balance the cavity in a diametrically opposite position on the rotor. So I suggest that the balancer be a dummy load. Same moment of inertia as the cavity, same complex impedance at the same frequency. In this way you can switch between dummy and cavity at will.
Quote from: Donosauro on 08/03/2015 04:13 pmQuote from: Flyby on 08/03/2015 03:55 pmI doubt it will be in a non-metal material. All those materials, except ceramics, have very low melting points.so it has to be in a metal... Titanium would be excluded, as I know from colleagues that it prices around 50euro/cm³....expensive to build solid welled objects in... http://www.amazon.com/One-Pound-999-Fine-Titanium/dp/B007RFTC7I shows a one-pound bar of .999fine titanium selling for less than $50, which is much less than 50 euros per cubic centimeter. Did you mean platinum?As I do not own a metal 3dprinter, I asked a specialized local firm here for a quote, to see if titanium would be an alternative to (old fashion) bronze casting for an architectural model for blind people.48€/cm³ was the price i got, which - sadly - landed the 3dprint on par with traditional bronze casting.In 3dprinting, you pay for a lot more then just the raw materials...Until recently (some new lowcost kickstarter programs), these specialized industrial grade 3dprinters easily go 300k-800k euro, if not more... and that's why you actually pay that much...
Quote from: Mulletron on 08/03/2015 05:46 pmJust want to make sure I am reading Tajmar's paper correctly here. His testing in hard vacuum only used the magnetic damper and did not feature the oil damper. Right? For curiosity's sake, is it even possible to use an oil damper in vacuum? Would the oil boil off and coat everything? What would be a suitable fluid?I'd vote for Beer. Its reclaimable and environmental-friendly
I measured it: the internal height is 72.8 mm (after adjustment for better resonance). Between the Cavity and the waveguide we used an adapter. The measures are all correct. We simulated it in COMSOL and also Shawyer with his calculation program assured us that the dimensions we used were correct.