Quote from: deltaMass on 05/21/2015 07:00 pmWe can figure out the true thrust now (T=thrust, a=air effect, in gm-wt)T + a = -0.54-T + a = +0.54/7solving by eliminating ‘a’ givesT = -0.31 gm-wtso thrusting forward at the small endQuotethe thrust downwards is around 7 times smaller. difference on the scale is only 0.20 gramsI'm confused.From Iulian's quote, wouldn't Test 1 = 0.2*7=1.4g and Test 2 = 0.2 . Then the equation would be set up like this?T=thrustA=airT+A=1.4gT-A=0.2gT=0.8gA=0.6g
We can figure out the true thrust now (T=thrust, a=air effect, in gm-wt)T + a = -0.54-T + a = +0.54/7solving by eliminating ‘a’ givesT = -0.31 gm-wtso thrusting forward at the small end
the thrust downwards is around 7 times smaller. difference on the scale is only 0.20 grams
Quote from: Rodal on 05/21/2015 05:13 pmWe haven't heard TheTraveller's opinion.Should we change the Experimental Spreadsheet assuming that Shawyer made a typo and the DesignFactor for the Demonstrator was 0.484 instead of 0.844 ?Well, I was guessing he'd say yes, so I changed it already on http://emdrive.echothis.com/Experimental_Results. Will of course switch it back if consensus says otherwise.
We haven't heard TheTraveller's opinion.Should we change the Experimental Spreadsheet assuming that Shawyer made a typo and the DesignFactor for the Demonstrator was 0.484 instead of 0.844 ?
I also think the cavity length needs to be adjusted on the Demonstrator Thruster to .187m.My reasoning and measurements:I believe Shawyer angled the cone to his expectation of where the small diameter plate will be. When the device is turned on the plate is slightly back inside the cylinder and gradually moved forward until there is phase lock. The length of the cylinder, in part, is to accommodate the movement mechanism and the volume of the small plate.In my recent model the cone length is exactly .187m (from the face of the small plate to the face of the large plate). Slightly longer than the .183m calculated from 3 * .123m / 2 - based on .2450Ghz. I think 4mm is ample distance to move the small plate to achieve phase lock as I described above.Did I do the math right?
Quote from: SeeShells on 05/21/2015 07:04 pm...(1) Magnetic susceptibilities of paramagnetic and diamagnetic materials... see anything interesting?http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/general_physics/2_6/2_6_6.htmlmass susceptibility per kilogram, χ, at 20°CVacuum . . . . 0 Polyethylene . . .+0.2 *10^(-8) (paramagnetic) Aluminium . . . . +0.82*10^(-8) (paramagnetic)Copper . . . . −0.107*10^(-8) (diamagnetic)All very small values compared to iron, cast iron and other magnetic materialsThe value for Polyethylene confirms that the magnetic permeability of HDPE shoud be close to 1.However, this is for the real part of the susceptibility. I recall that Paul March said that what was most interesting were the imaginary components of the permittivity and the permeability.Can anyone find the imaginary permittivity and imaginary permeability for HDPE ?The imaginary parts act as absorption coefficients (more in the direction of attenuation pointed out by Todd)
...(1) Magnetic susceptibilities of paramagnetic and diamagnetic materials... see anything interesting?http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/general_physics/2_6/2_6_6.html
...Chris's article mentioned some very fast transit times, but no mention of what the actual impulse number is....Chris's article didn't seem to indicated that the power requirements were unfeasible. And that the thrust to power input ratio went down as power went up? ...
Quote from: Reactionless on 05/21/2015 07:07 pmQuote from: deltaMass on 05/21/2015 07:00 pmWe can figure out the true thrust now (T=thrust, a=air effect, in gm-wt)T + a = -0.54-T + a = +0.54/7solving by eliminating ‘a’ givesT = -0.31 gm-wtso thrusting forward at the small endQuotethe thrust downwards is around 7 times smaller. difference on the scale is only 0.20 gramsI'm confused.From Iulian's quote, wouldn't Test 1 = 0.2*7=1.4g and Test 2 = 0.2 . Then the equation would be set up like this?T=thrustA=airT+A=1.4gT-A=0.2gT=0.8gA=0.6gWe are both wrong. He said two contradictory things"I got 1/7th of the previous thrust, in the opposite direction" and"I got 2 gm-wt thrust downwards"Originally he got 0.54 gm-wt upwards, so 1/7th would be 0.08 - yet he says 0.2I'll go with 0.2. T assumed towards small end.T + A = 0.54 (up)-T + A = -0.2 (down)Solving:T = 0.37 (thrusts from small end)A = 0.17 (~50% of the thrust)
...The use of HDPE rather than PTFE at MW freqs has been bothering me. Nowhere over 1 GHz have I heard of HDPE, which could indicate high moisture absorption or reflectability. Also, the melting point of HDPE is rather low compared to the 250 deg C of PTFE.The comparison tables are here: http://www.vanderveerplastics.com/compare-materials.html?sel1=hdpe&sel2=teflon-ptfe-fepIf someone knows why HDPE (typically plastic milk jugs( were initially used, it would be interesting."High-density polyethylene (HDPE) or polyethylene high-density (PEHD) is a polyethylene thermoplastic made from petroleum. It is sometimes called "alkathene" or "polythene" when used for pipes.[1] With a high strength-to-density ratio, HDPE is used in the production of plastic bottles, corrosion-resistant piping, geomembranes, and plastic lumber. HDPE is commonly recycled, and has the number "2" as its resin identification code (formerly known as recycling symbol)." per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_polyethylene
The bottom line is that nobody understands how this thing works.
I just uploaded the video with the upside down test. in the next days i will start testing the new setup with the adjustable length.
Take a gander at the section on energy conservation here:http://emdrive.echothis.com/Generic_EM_Drive_Information
This is also interesting for TM010 mode. Note where the H (magnetic) field is located. At the big end, right where Shawyer feeds in the Rf in the Demonstrator & Flight Thruster EM Drives.Backs up the Patent mention of TM01 mode.Fairly clear to me, TM010 is probably Shawyers EM Drive mode.
Quote from: TheTraveller on 05/21/2015 08:06 pmThis is also interesting for TM010 mode. Note where the H (magnetic) field is located. At the big end, right where Shawyer feeds in the Rf in the Demonstrator & Flight Thruster EM Drives.Backs up the Patent mention of TM01 mode.Fairly clear to me, TM010 is probably Shawyers EM Drive mode.What is clear is that TM010 is definitely not the mode shape at the reported frequency and dimensions of Shawyer's Flight ThrusterJust think about it, even at the lower frequency used by NASA Eagleworks (below 2 GHz with a dielectric) they are into a much higher mode shape: TM212and look at the natural frequency shown on the image you posted above for NASA Eagleworks: TM010 is below 1 GHz without a dielectric
Interesting that the thrust seems to be "small end forward". Others (Shawyer, NASA, Juan) see opposite thrust, from the large end.
Quote from: deltaMass on 05/21/2015 08:15 pmInteresting that the thrust seems to be "small end forward". Others (Shawyer, NASA, Juan) see opposite thrust, from the large end.All tests move towards the small end, including these new tests. I don't think anyone was shown movement toward the large end...