It is technically incorrect to compare results for dielectric inserts having completely different properties, and to refer to them simply as "they all are just dielectrics so they are a waste of time"
...Maybe Paul can share the force EW measured when they ran the Alum frustum on the Teeter Totter balance beam and excited it with a 1.2kW maggie and without a dielectric. ...
Quote from: Rodal on 03/17/2016 01:28 pmIt is technically incorrect to compare results for dielectric inserts having completely different properties, and to refer to them simply as "they all are just dielectrics so they are a waste of time"They are a waste of time because:1) Roger abandoned using them after he built the Experimental EmDrive.2) EW's best force results, using dielectrics, are approx equivalent to 3 SnowFlakes (30uN each).Other than Roger's Experimental EmDrive results of 16mN at 850W and EW's 3 SnowFlakes, no one that I know has reported any Force generation using dielectrics in an EmDrive.However we have a range of much more than a few SnowFlakes of experimental force results reported by NOT using dielectrics.
Since you continue to bunch up all dielectric inserts together without properly taking into account their different dielectric and other material properties, I will not continue answering any further posts from you on this matter until you properly take into account the technical material properties instead of bunching different material results saying "they are all dielectrics".
Quote from: Rodal on 03/17/2016 01:56 pmSince you continue to bunch up all dielectric inserts together without properly taking into account their different dielectric and other material properties, I will not continue answering any further posts from you on this matter until you properly take into account the technical material properties instead of bunching different material results saying "they are all dielectrics".I have not asked you any questions about dielectrics as I have NO INTEREST in them. Dielectrics = very little, if any, force generation. End of story unless you have experimental data to show otherwise.My question, which you jumped on and hijacked into talking about dielectrics, was to Paul and it was about how EW constructed their Aluminium frustum.Please refrain from hijacking a question I directed to Paul.
Quote from: TheTraveller on 03/17/2016 02:37 pmQuote from: Rodal on 03/17/2016 01:56 pmSince you continue to bunch up all dielectric inserts together without properly taking into account their different dielectric and other material properties, I will not continue answering any further posts from you on this matter until you properly take into account the technical material properties instead of bunching different material results saying "they are all dielectrics".I have not asked you any questions about dielectrics as I have NO INTEREST in them. Dielectrics = very little, if any, force generation. End of story unless you have experimental data to show otherwise.My question, which you jumped on and hijacked into talking about dielectrics, was to Paul and it was about how EW constructed their Aluminium frustum.Please refrain from hijacking a question I directed to Paul.I would agree that dielectrics are the least know commodity amongst active DIY participants. To my knowledge, only Eagleworks mentioned them a couple of years ago. Cannae might have, but their design is not a classic EMDrive.There is no formal release of dielectric material, properties or dimensions that allowed me to use it in my design. In the use of dielectrics in the past, Q was lower and real estate was saved because of the dielectric constant being well above air. I am unaware of anything a dielectric could do to help create an emdrive effect...there is no accepted theory last time I checked.If someone has advanced dielectric/theory facts, no reason to keep it withheld from DIY folks...I'll cut some Teflon of whatever...
I would agree that dielectrics are the least know commodity amongst active DIY participants.
There is no formal release of dielectric material, properties or dimensions
Quote from: MazonDel on 03/16/2016 09:15 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 03/16/2016 08:29 pmQuote from: MazonDel on 03/16/2016 07:15 pmHere's a question for people, apologies if it was asked/answered before.What sort of effect does having a less rounded frustum have on things?I've been toying around with a design for a re-configurable frustum. Sort of like a three dimensional iris shutter system. While I "should" be able to figure out how to make the blades rounded, unless I get super fancy with adjustable curves on the blades, they will still somewhat only be optimized for a particular shape.Additionally, is having the RF input on the side of the frustum necessary compared with one of the endplates?The goal of this particular mental exercise is to attempt to come up with a design of a frustum that can to some extent have most variables about its shape adjustable via computer control (possibly via stepper motors).Thanks-MazonThink I might have answered this on TT's site, but think slipping plates will cause a resonance problem and low Q.Here's something to consider. Do what I did on my first design, construct the sidewalls with copper mesh screen, 11 threads per inch, use adjustable compression bands at 3 places along the sidewall. Mesh is quite pliable and it does give good resonance. Side-mount injection is not my choice and would be difficult with this or similar methodology.During the writing of my previous post, I did have the idea of adjustable bars (in place of the blades) that could manipulate some sort of metallic cloth around and decided to do some looking before mentioning. At a glance, something like http://www.lessemf.com/fabric4.html#1212 was what I was thinking. Does something like the fabric or mesh make sense from an end-plate perspective?Definitely having end-plate injection would simplify my setup. On an aside about that, there is probably no real value in having an ability to similarly offset the RF port is there? It wouldn't be that hard to do with an end-plate, for what I have in mind if people thought there would be value in it.-MazonThis is the only photographic evidence we have of how and where Rf was injected into the SPR Flight Thruster, which is the most modern non cryo design. That Rf coax injection by a coupler (sort of antenna) of some design.It is the method I have used and plan to use again on my next thruster build.Good luck with your build.
Quote from: rfmwguy on 03/16/2016 08:29 pmQuote from: MazonDel on 03/16/2016 07:15 pmHere's a question for people, apologies if it was asked/answered before.What sort of effect does having a less rounded frustum have on things?I've been toying around with a design for a re-configurable frustum. Sort of like a three dimensional iris shutter system. While I "should" be able to figure out how to make the blades rounded, unless I get super fancy with adjustable curves on the blades, they will still somewhat only be optimized for a particular shape.Additionally, is having the RF input on the side of the frustum necessary compared with one of the endplates?The goal of this particular mental exercise is to attempt to come up with a design of a frustum that can to some extent have most variables about its shape adjustable via computer control (possibly via stepper motors).Thanks-MazonThink I might have answered this on TT's site, but think slipping plates will cause a resonance problem and low Q.Here's something to consider. Do what I did on my first design, construct the sidewalls with copper mesh screen, 11 threads per inch, use adjustable compression bands at 3 places along the sidewall. Mesh is quite pliable and it does give good resonance. Side-mount injection is not my choice and would be difficult with this or similar methodology.During the writing of my previous post, I did have the idea of adjustable bars (in place of the blades) that could manipulate some sort of metallic cloth around and decided to do some looking before mentioning. At a glance, something like http://www.lessemf.com/fabric4.html#1212 was what I was thinking. Does something like the fabric or mesh make sense from an end-plate perspective?Definitely having end-plate injection would simplify my setup. On an aside about that, there is probably no real value in having an ability to similarly offset the RF port is there? It wouldn't be that hard to do with an end-plate, for what I have in mind if people thought there would be value in it.-Mazon
Quote from: MazonDel on 03/16/2016 07:15 pmHere's a question for people, apologies if it was asked/answered before.What sort of effect does having a less rounded frustum have on things?I've been toying around with a design for a re-configurable frustum. Sort of like a three dimensional iris shutter system. While I "should" be able to figure out how to make the blades rounded, unless I get super fancy with adjustable curves on the blades, they will still somewhat only be optimized for a particular shape.Additionally, is having the RF input on the side of the frustum necessary compared with one of the endplates?The goal of this particular mental exercise is to attempt to come up with a design of a frustum that can to some extent have most variables about its shape adjustable via computer control (possibly via stepper motors).Thanks-MazonThink I might have answered this on TT's site, but think slipping plates will cause a resonance problem and low Q.Here's something to consider. Do what I did on my first design, construct the sidewalls with copper mesh screen, 11 threads per inch, use adjustable compression bands at 3 places along the sidewall. Mesh is quite pliable and it does give good resonance. Side-mount injection is not my choice and would be difficult with this or similar methodology.
Here's a question for people, apologies if it was asked/answered before.What sort of effect does having a less rounded frustum have on things?I've been toying around with a design for a re-configurable frustum. Sort of like a three dimensional iris shutter system. While I "should" be able to figure out how to make the blades rounded, unless I get super fancy with adjustable curves on the blades, they will still somewhat only be optimized for a particular shape.Additionally, is having the RF input on the side of the frustum necessary compared with one of the endplates?The goal of this particular mental exercise is to attempt to come up with a design of a frustum that can to some extent have most variables about its shape adjustable via computer control (possibly via stepper motors).Thanks-Mazon
MHT1003NR3 arrived. It is a little smaller than I expected. This little 3-pin RF LDMOSFET transistor can output 250 watts @ 2.45Ghz with 32v DC!
Quote from: rfmwguy on 03/17/2016 03:19 pmQuote from: TheTraveller on 03/17/2016 02:37 pmQuote from: Rodal on 03/17/2016 01:56 pmSince you continue to bunch up all dielectric inserts together without properly taking into account their different dielectric and other material properties, I will not continue answering any further posts from you on this matter until you properly take into account the technical material properties instead of bunching different material results saying "they are all dielectrics".I have not asked you any questions about dielectrics as I have NO INTEREST in them. Dielectrics = very little, if any, force generation. End of story unless you have experimental data to show otherwise.My question, which you jumped on and hijacked into talking about dielectrics, was to Paul and it was about how EW constructed their Aluminium frustum.Please refrain from hijacking a question I directed to Paul.I would agree that dielectrics are the least know commodity amongst active DIY participants. To my knowledge, only Eagleworks mentioned them a couple of years ago. Cannae might have, but their design is not a classic EMDrive.There is no formal release of dielectric material, properties or dimensions that allowed me to use it in my design. In the use of dielectrics in the past, Q was lower and real estate was saved because of the dielectric constant being well above air. I am unaware of anything a dielectric could do to help create an emdrive effect...there is no accepted theory last time I checked.If someone has advanced dielectric/theory facts, no reason to keep it withheld from DIY folks...I'll cut some Teflon of whatever... (multi-snip)Sorry, but I think that your statement:QuoteThere is no formal release of dielectric material, properties or dimensions is unjustified and incorrect. If you look at the pictures I just reposted, Star-Drive included the dielectric material, properties and dimensions.Here is an image from Zellerium's DIY including a dielectric insert:
Just to get you started, NXP has a dxf file for the printed circuit board on their site. I'm sure it involves Rogers Duroid or some other special substrate, and I'm also sure you're looking at a massive heatsink and/or water cooling.
...As the start of my build, I found no convenient list/summary of dielectric options nor any theories as to how a dielectric creates the emdrive effect. A dielectric is commonly used to scale down real estate. If you have a specific theory, please share, otherwise it seems as though you are "throwing stones" at those not using a dielectric....
Quote from: rq3 on 03/17/2016 05:18 pmJust to get you started, NXP has a dxf file for the printed circuit board on their site. I'm sure it involves Rogers Duroid or some other special substrate, and I'm also sure you're looking at a massive heatsink and/or water cooling.Thanks! I can't believe I missed the DXF. I think I will need to dump about 80 watts of heat, so I will try the heatsink first.
A nice Agilent synthesizer, and not a magnetron in sight! Guess even Roger finally realized what I've been saying all along. Tune the source to the cavity, not the cavity to the source. I wonder if he modulates the synthesizer to make it act like a magnetron?
Couldn't I fabricate a board with some duroid based on the DXF?