Author Topic: SpaceX customers' views on reuse  (Read 44360 times)

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #140 on: 06/07/2017 10:29 AM »
Haven't heard that this will be a flight-proven booster (it probably won't be) but the momentum and acceptance are there...

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Wilson testified that the emergence of the commercial space industry has proven a boon for the US military. "The benefit we're seeing now is competition," she said. "There are some very exciting things happening in commercial space that bring the opportunity for assured access to space at a very competitive price."

The admission came in response to a question from Senator Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), who asked about the military's capability for a rapid response to military space needs. After picking up a model of the X-37B and showing it to committee members, Wilson said the addition of companies like SpaceX, as well as other launch firms, was expanding the capacity of the military and significantly lowering costs.

The US military has not said what the X-37B has been doing up in space for years at a time, beyond furthering "operations development for reusable space vehicle technologies." In addition to testing surveillance technology, some experts think the Air Force may be working on equipment that could be incorporated into a human-rated version of the vehicle that could carry a flight crew. Among the applications contemplated for the X-37B would be the recovery of satellites for repair on Earth.

Some military advisers have begun urging the Air Force to embrace the commercial space industry more completely.


https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/spacex-will-launch-the-air-forces-secretive-space-plane-on-its-next-flight/
« Last Edit: 06/07/2017 10:30 AM by AncientU »
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Offline CraigLieb

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #141 on: 06/08/2017 09:46 PM »
Some day asking for a new rocket will seem like waiting for a new cab because you like that new car smell.
It could be a long wait.
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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #142 on: 06/15/2017 07:44 AM »
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@IridiumBoss: Cool Bulgaria/ @SpaceX using stage from @IridiumComm launch. We'd do the same -- with a big discount.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/875198527948849157

Edit: sorry, forgot the link

https://www.spaceintelreport.com/iridium-thinking-ahead-life-coface-loan-ma-possible/
« Last Edit: 06/15/2017 07:47 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #143 on: 06/19/2017 06:01 PM »
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Iridium’s Matt Desch says company might be open to launching on a previously-flown Falcon 9 in 2nd half of eight-launch series next year.

https://twitter.com/stephenclark1/status/876860410410004480

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Iridium’s Desch: We want to see steeper discount than what SpaceX currently offers to switch to a reused Falcon 9 booster, but open to it.

https://twitter.com/stephenclark1/status/876860662403792896

Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #144 on: 06/19/2017 06:45 PM »
So I asked Matt whether a 30% discount would be good enough and he said this:

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Haven't seen that kind of discount, but we can't wait a year or two.  It's not just $$, but an issue of whether it improves our schedule.

https://twitter.com/IridiumBoss/status/876871989532688384



Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #145 on: 06/19/2017 06:51 PM »
Thanks for asking.

Hmm, doesn't that rather undercut the 'need' for a big discount? Sounding more like a negotiating position. I suspect schedule is rather more important to Iridium - as delays likely to mean more in lost revenue than potential discount?

Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #146 on: 06/19/2017 07:11 PM »
I just asked about whether the insurance policy for Iridium was a significant cause for the waits in between flights. Matt said that:

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Insurance always a consideration, but with a few more good reflights, expect won't be much of an issue.  BTW, ins isn't only cause of wait..

https://twitter.com/IridiumBoss/status/876878841742061568

i'm assuming SpaceX's backlog is almost certainly part of the reason why they can't fly sooner.



Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #147 on: 06/19/2017 08:33 PM »
Thanks for asking.

Hmm, doesn't that rather undercut the 'need' for a big discount? Sounding more like a negotiating position. I suspect schedule is rather more important to Iridium - as delays likely to mean more in lost revenue than potential discount?

I suspect that once the reliability of reused rockets has been established with say a dozen successful reflights or so, that SpaceX could charge pretty much full price for a reused rocket if it allowed customers to jump significantly forward in the queue.

After all, there is no coercion from SpaceX, simply an option which they present to the client. Launch as planned on a new booster 1 year from now, or launch next month, on a reused one. No pressure.

Online deruch

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #148 on: 06/21/2017 03:13 AM »
There's only so fast they can swap the new sats into their constellation and the planning and scheduling for that is one major consideration for how rapidly they actually want to launch.  Other client side considerations are their satellite production rate as well as staffing/resources for payload prep at the launch site.  I'm sure there are others. 
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Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #149 on: 06/21/2017 03:20 AM »
I like Matt but I think he's jawboning to try to get a better discount by using PR to his advantage. Good for him.
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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #150 on: 06/21/2017 06:11 AM »
More background on Iridium's views and quotes from Matt:

http://spacenews.com/iridium-open-to-reused-falcon-9s-if-it-means-spacex-can-speed-up-schedule/

Includes:

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“That’s the first thing: will they improve my schedule, because schedule to me is very very important.”

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #151 on: 06/21/2017 01:05 PM »
I like Matt but I think he's jawboning to try to get a better discount by using PR to his advantage. Good for him.

Almost like in a free market! ::)
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #152 on: 06/21/2017 05:23 PM »
There's only so fast they can swap the new sats into their constellation and the planning and scheduling for that is one major consideration for how rapidly they actually want to launch.  Other client side considerations are their satellite production rate as well as staffing/resources for payload prep at the launch site.  I'm sure there are others.
If their other scheduled launch provider has extensive delays eg LV grounded because reliability issues , pad out of action. That is when an alternative LV provider that can launch on short notice becomes important.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #153 on: 06/21/2017 06:03 PM »
I like Matt but I think he's jawboning to try to get a better discount by using PR to his advantage. Good for him.

Almost like in a free market! ::)
Exactly. This is part of the Musk vision and I bet Elon is glad to see it even if it's a bit of pseudo-gibing at his expense.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #154 on: 06/21/2017 10:29 PM »
I like Matt but I think he's jawboning to try to get a better discount by using PR to his advantage. Good for him.

Almost like in a free market! ::)
Exactly. This is part of the Musk vision and I bet Elon is glad to see it even if it's a bit of pseudo-gibing at his expense.

The deep discounts will come, just postponed because of a little fixer-upper of a pad.  Iridium just has a bucket load of sats to loft now, not in a couple years.  Has to settle for earlier launches (less late, that is) and a few million each back for his trouble.  Not a bad deal.
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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #155 on: 06/22/2017 05:03 PM »
House Armed Services Committee weighs in:

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HASC sbcmt just adopted (voice) Franks amendment saying AF should use reusable rockets when safe and makes sense. (Pro-reusability)

https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/877901895242797057

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Would have to see exact wording, but in direction of goodnss. Its in US intrsts that ALL gov agencies, incl NASA, promote & encourage RLVs.

https://twitter.com/davehuntsman/status/877927306404126720
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Online Rebel44

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #156 on: 06/22/2017 07:59 PM »
House Armed Services Committee weighs in:

Quote
HASC sbcmt just adopted (voice) Franks amendment saying AF should use reusable rockets when safe and makes sense. (Pro-reusability)

https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/877901895242797057

Quote
Would have to see exact wording, but in direction of goodnss. Its in US intrsts that ALL gov agencies, incl NASA, promote & encourage RLVs.

https://twitter.com/davehuntsman/status/877927306404126720

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2nbWehU9U4?t=18m16s

mentioned at 18:16

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #158 on: 06/23/2017 12:08 PM »
Another by BulgariaSat's CEO:

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On the eve of the launch of his country’s first communications satellite on a Falcon 9 rocket, the chief executive of BulgariaSat credited SpaceX’s cost-cutting ways with making space accessible for small nations and money-conscious companies like his own.

Maxim Zayakov, CEO of BulgariaSat and its affiliate television provider Bulsatcom, told Spacefight Now that SpaceX’s push to reduce the cost of space transportation has yielded tangible results for his country.

“People don’t realize that, for small countries and small companies like us, without SpaceX, there was no way we would ever be able to even think about space,” Zayakov said. “With them, it was possible. We got a project. I think, in the future, it’s going to be even more affordable because of reusability.”

https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/06/22/head-of-bulgariasat-says-satellite-project-would-be-impossible-without-spacex/
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX customers' views on reuse
« Reply #159 on: 06/23/2017 12:46 PM »
Interesting how those strong voices who touted the folly of reuse have grown remarkably quiet as of late...

I haven't seen mention of Dr Sower's spreadsheet in some time. If it was grounded in solid reasoning, why isn't it being referenced anymore (serious question - because I would like to know if anything has changed in those calculations, or is it just the excitement of watching flight proven boosters taking flight...)
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