Author Topic: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread  (Read 821129 times)

Offline launchwatcher

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2100 on: 06/13/2017 05:17 PM »

When was the last time Blue was fast? On anything?
Blue does what it wants to do. Their way. What others think of that is of no concern to them.


They were fast in 2015 and 2016, when they were showing us real progress.

Now half of 2017 is gone, and the only thing Blue Origin is showing us are museum exhibitions. Space enthusiasts don't care about these, they care about stuff being done.
They have customers and orbital launch contracts now; that's more important than what enthusiasts think.

Online envy887

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2101 on: 06/13/2017 05:52 PM »
Simple explanation for NS hiatus: NG.

That would be quite disconcerting. Postponing work on an (almost) ready to fly rocket to develop a new, better one gets you nowhere fast.
When was the last time Blue was fast? On anything?
Blue does what it wants to do. Their way. What others think of that is of no concern to them.

They signed launch contracts for GTO launches in 2020, so they risk losing money (and more importantly, customers) if they don't deliver on time.

Online gongora

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2102 on: 06/14/2017 09:10 PM »
Moved some posts discussing space tourism:
Space Tourism Predictions?

Offline WindnWar

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2103 on: 06/14/2017 09:27 PM »
Simple explanation for NS hiatus: NG.

That would be quite disconcerting. Postponing work on an (almost) ready to fly rocket to develop a new, better one gets you nowhere fast.
When was the last time Blue was fast? On anything?
Blue does what it wants to do. Their way. What others think of that is of no concern to them.

They signed launch contracts for GTO launches in 2020, so they risk losing money (and more importantly, customers) if they don't deliver on time.

Those launches are far enough out that if there are delays those customers could easily book a backup flight provider and I doubt Blue would care that much. Especially if it needs more time to make sure its successful.

Offline deruch

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2104 on: 06/19/2017 01:49 AM »
Once you've used a rocket design under a launch license, you can't go back to using the lower regulatory bar of the permits.  Also, they are barred from selling flights while using a permit.  So, paying cargo requires using a license which eliminates any future use of the experimental permitting.

It appears that the NS hiatus is the result of its experimental phase being completed, with the expiration of the launch permit this past February, and the need to obtain a launch license prior to any commercial cargo being launched. Does anyone know how long it might take to receive a license from its application forward?

It's certainly possible that this change is partly responsible for the slowdown.  But don't take it as definitive.  There are lots of other potential reasons why they may have temporarily stopped flying.  As for launch licenses, the FAA has an 180-day review period to either approve or deny a application (so, ~6 months).  But there's no reason why BO couldn't apply for a license while they were still operating under the permit.  They just can't have both at the same time. 
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline GWH

Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2105 on: 06/19/2017 02:20 AM »
Isn't it also possible that they are implenting design changes to New Shep for rapid reuse and thats delayed moving to the next round of testing?

Offline joek

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2106 on: 06/19/2017 03:08 AM »
Blue has stated (or strongly implied) their next step, which is a license for paying cargo (not people).  Which does not mean that some flights will not still operate under a permit.  However, if they want to carry anything for pay (such as experiments--never mind people) they will need a license.

Yes it does, actually.  Once they get a launch license for the vehicle, all future flights for the same vehicle must be covered under a launch license.  See 51 USC § 50906, the US code section dealing with experimental permits.  Specifically clause (g), which says,
Quote from: 51 USC § 50906
(g) A permit may not be issued for, and a permit that has already been issued shall cease to be valid for, a particular design for a reusable suborbital rocket after a license has been issued for the launch or reentry of a rocket of that design.

Once you've used a rocket design under a launch license, you can't go back to using the lower regulatory bar of the permits.  Also, they are barred from selling flights while using a permit.  So, paying cargo requires using a license which eliminates any future use of the experimental permitting.  The only exception would be if they altered the vehicle sufficiently that it could be considered a separate vehicle design that needed experimental testing.  But, given the explicitness of the relevant law and its intent, I would imagine that the FAA wouldn't let them get by on a "wink and a nod" change.

No it does not.  I  have commented on this previously long ago and at length.

The definition of "rocket design" is undefined.  Commercial providers have been pushing back on this for ages.  Thus we have, e.g., https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/113th-congress/senate-report/318/1.

In short, it is entirely up to the FAA to determine whether a license or permit is allowed or required.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2107 on: 06/19/2017 09:17 PM »
Quote
Celebrating our addition to an epic list of pioneers! @JeffBezos accepts the Collier Trophy for #NewShepard. The after-party:

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/876803940330766336

Offline Chasm

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2108 on: 06/21/2017 02:01 PM »
To put the Blue Origin prices somewhat into perspective, ESA announced the ICE Cubes program at the Paris Air Show. Cubesat sized self contained experiments within the ISS.
€50k buys you 1U for 4+ months duration. Student, educational and other discounts available.
icecubesservice.com (No pricing there yet.)

Apropos cargo. Looks like the prices in the last presentation were real enough.
$5300 for a NanoLab Student experiment has been mentioned again. - Not to be confused with a NanoRack locker. With 2U NanoLab is much smaller, USB power and data. Full lockers were listed at much higher prices. 50-100k for a single, 100-150k for a double locker.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2109 on: 06/21/2017 11:57 PM »
Collier trophy.  Musk doesn't have one, despite landing a bigger, faster stage? 

 - Ed Kyle

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2110 on: 06/22/2017 12:15 AM »
Collier trophy.  Musk doesn't have one, despite landing a bigger, faster stage? 

 - Ed Kyle

No he doesn't. But Blue get it for re-use so maybe SpaceX will get it this year?

Online Semmel

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2111 on: 06/22/2017 07:24 AM »
Collier trophy.  Musk doesn't have one, despite landing a bigger, faster stage? 

 - Ed Kyle

No he doesn't. But Blue get it for re-use so maybe SpaceX will get it this year?

Trophies like that are meaningless. Don't know what people see in them. Blue would have done the same with or without the trophy.
« Last Edit: 06/22/2017 07:26 AM by Semmel »

Offline spacenut

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2112 on: 06/22/2017 08:21 AM »
It's a participation trophy. 

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2113 on: 06/26/2017 02:25 PM »
Quote
Ala. Gov. Kay Ivey announces Blue Origin will build new rocket engine co. in Huntsville. $200M investment. 350 jobs.

https://twitter.com/leeroop/status/879342107701456898

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2114 on: 06/26/2017 02:30 PM »
Expect there will be quite a bit of press on this:

Quote
It is an honor to announce that Blue Origin has chosen Alabama to build its BE-4 rocket engines! A $200 million investment and 350 new jobs!

https://twitter.com/governorkayivey/status/879344955889790977

Edit to add:

Quote
Had heard this was coming. Shrewd political move for Blue Origin.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/879345713154600962
« Last Edit: 06/26/2017 02:35 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online gongora

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2115 on: 06/26/2017 02:43 PM »
Expect there will be quite a bit of press on this:

Quote
It is an honor to announce that Blue Origin has chosen Alabama to build its BE-4 rocket engines! A $200 million investment and 350 new jobs!

https://twitter.com/governorkayivey/status/879344955889790977

Edit to add:

Quote
Had heard this was coming. Shrewd political move for Blue Origin.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/879345713154600962

Huntsville?  I'm shocked!  Wait, no I'm not.  That's actually where I thought it would end up.  Because, politics.

Online Navier–Stokes

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2116 on: 06/26/2017 02:58 PM »
Blue Origin‏
@blueorigin 

Excited to select Huntsville AL as the site for our #BE4 rocket engine production #VulcanRocket #GradatimFerociter http://www.hsvchamber.org/rocketcity/

7:53 AM - 26 Jun 2017

Press Release:
BLUE ORIGIN SELECTS HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA FOR NEW BE-4 MANUFACTURING FACILITY
New 200,000 square feet facility to locate in Cummings Research Park

HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA—Blue Origin announced plans to manufacture its BE-4 engine in a state-of-the art production facility to be built in Huntsville, Alabama -- the Rocket City.

The new facility will be in Cummings Research Park, the nation’s second-largest research park, and construction can begin once an engine production contract with United Launch Alliance is awarded. The BE-4 is America’s next rocket engine and will power United Launch Alliance’s Vulcan rocket, once down-selected. The production of this engine would end the nation’s dependence on Russia for access to space for critical national security space systems.

Two BE-4s would be used on the Vulcan booster rocket. The BE-4 will also power Blue Origin’s New Glenn reusable launch system with seven BE-4s on the reusable first stage and a vacuum-optimized BE-4U on New Glenn’s second stage. Blue Origin awaits the final public approval processes of the local package by the City and County governments during their respective July meetings.

Using the latest design and manufacturing techniques, the BE-4 is made for both commercial and government missions. The BE-4 uses oxygen-rich staged combustion of liquid oxygen and liquefied natural gas to produce 550,000 lb. of thrust. Development of the BE-4 began in 2011. Testing of the BE-4 is currently underway.

“Alabama is a great state for aerospace manufacturing and we are proud to produce America’s next rocket engine right here in Rocket City,” said Robert Meyerson, President of Blue Origin. “The area’s skilled workforce and leading role in rocket propulsion development make Huntsville the ideal location for our state-of-the-art manufacturing facility.”

Blue Origin will employ up to 342 people in this new facility. The company will make approximately $200 million in capital investment in the state.

"This announcement today is excellent news for our state. I am pleased to see Blue Origin investing in Alabama, and I look forward to working with them and other businesses to continue boosting economic development opportunities,” commended U.S. Senator Richard Shelby.

The announcement took place at the historic Davidson Center for Space Exploration under the Saturn V rocket, a nod to the community’s aerospace heritage. Blue Origin builds on that aerospace heritage and positions the Huntsville/Madison County community in the commercial space industry.

Alabama Governor Kay Ivey said of the announcement, “We are excited to welcome Blue Origin to Alabama. I must commend founder Jeff Bezos and company President Robert Meyerson for their vision to create this innovative company, and for choosing to make Alabama its home sweet home! Because of this investment, more Alabamians can provide a better living for their families, and it helps cement Alabama as the preferred destination for the aerospace industry.”

Many economic development partners contributed to the effort to successfully recruit Blue Origin to the state. These partners include the Governor’s office, the Alabama Department of Commerce, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the City of Huntsville, Madison County, and the Huntsville/Madison County Chamber.

“Blue Origin’s decision to locate its BE-4 engine manufacturing center in Huntsville reflects the deep and longstanding capabilities in the city that became the cradle of the nation’s rocket program,” said Greg Canfield, secretary of the Alabama Department of Commerce. “Huntsville is a hub of innovation in every facet of aerospace, making it the perfect home for this Blue Origin facility.”​

Blue Origin chose Huntsville, Alabama for this project because of the high-tech aerospace manufacturing workforce and ecosystem, including NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, nearly 300 private aerospace and defense contractors, and the University of Alabama in Huntsville, number 14th in NASA research funding in the nation.

“Huntsville is proud to be the nation’s propulsion center of excellence, and we couldn’t ask for a better partner than Blue Origin to join our team. When you look at NASA’s visionary work at the Marshall Space Flight Center, the talent and capacity of Huntsville’s space industry partners, and our expertise in research and development, engineering, and manufacturing, Blue Origin is joining a truly remarkable environment,” said Huntsville Mayor Tommy Battle.

"Today's announcement ensures that our community will continue to be at the center of the world's rocket propulsion development. Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin will build on the legacy of the German rocket team and the Marshall Space Flight Center to power the growing commercial rocket business that will be a critical part of our nation's future space program,” stated Madison County Commission Chairman Dale W. Strong.

In support of Blue Origin, the City of Huntsville, City of Madison, and Madison County have provided funding for their three school systems to launch an experiment on a Blue Origin rocket in Summer 2018. The school systems will determine how to select teams, and then they will work with the Huntsville/Madison County Chamber and Dream Up, an organization that supports space-based learning, to design and develop their payload.

“Blue Origin reinforces our regions’ place as the Rocket City, and a center of excellence for rocket propulsion. Blue Origin’s presence will have a positive impact on our State, our region and our community,” said Chip Cherry, President and CEO of the Huntsville/Madison County Chamber. “This is an important development for Cummings Research Park’s next era of expansion and we look forward to a long and productive relationship with Blue Origin.”

For more information about this announcement, Huntsville/Madison County’s propulsion expertise, and local job opportunities, please visit www.hsvchamber.org/rocketcity and follow #rocketcity on social media.

About Blue Origin
 Blue Origin, LLC (Blue Origin) is a private company developing vehicles and technologies to enable commercial human space transportation. Blue Origin has a long-term vision of greatly increasing the number of people that fly into space so that we humans can better continue exploring the solar system. For more information and a list of job openings, please visit us at www.blueorigin.com.

CONTACT:
 Erin Koshut
ekoshut@hsvchamber.org
(256) 326-2086

Download Press Release (PDF) »



Blue Origin FAQ

Blue Origin plans to bring up to 342 jobs to Huntsville, Alabama.

The company will make approximately $200 million in capital investment.

The state and local incentives are in final coordination. Blue Origin awaits the final public approval processes of the local package by the City and County governments during their respective July meetings. All incentives are tied to company performance and capital investment.

The new facility can break ground once an engine production contract with United Launch Alliance is awarded.

The Blue Origin average salary will be $75,000 annually. This is averaged across all employees at the new facility.

All job openings and applications for Blue Origin will be advertised and coordinated by the State of Alabama Industrial Development Training (AIDT). The Chamber will post a link on www.hsvchamber.org/rocketcity when appropriate.

The site location for this facility is in CRP West on Explorer Boulevard.

Economic Development Partners include:
•State of Alabama
•City of Huntsville
•Madison County
•Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA)
•Industrial Development Board of the City of Huntsville (IDB)
•AIDT
•University of Alabama in Huntsville
•Cummings Research Park Board of Directors
•Huntsville/Madison County Chamber

In support of Blue Origin, the City of Huntsville, City of Madison, and Madison County have provided funding for their three school systems to launch an experiment on a Blue Origin rocket in Summer 2018. The school systems will determine how to select teams, and then they will work with the Huntsville/Madison County Chamber and Dream Up, an organization that supports space-based learning, to design and develop their payload.

Huntsville, Alabama and Cummings Research Park were chosen from multiple sites across the country. The Blue Origin team indicated Huntsville was selected because it’s a proven leader in aerospace manufacturing with the highly skilled workforce, business climate, and leadership we need to produce low-cost rocket engines to protect the nation, explore the universe, and power a future where millions of people live and work in space.

Along with Blue Origin, other rockets and missile companies such as Aerojet Rocketdyne, The Boeing Company, Sierra Nevada, Raytheon, and RUAG, and organizations like NASA Marshall Space Flight Center, the Propulsion Research Center at UAH, the City of Huntsville, Alabama has re-established itself as the #rocketcity. 
« Last Edit: 06/26/2017 03:01 PM by Navier–Stokes »

Online Lars-J

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2117 on: 06/26/2017 04:07 PM »
And this should end the talk of Blue Origin having no interesting in working with/for the government.  :)

Offline Jim

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2118 on: 06/26/2017 04:20 PM »
And this should end the talk of Blue Origin having no interesting in working with/for the government.  :)

No, working with state authorities is standard for new factories.  This is not the same as working with NASA or the DOD.

Online Lars-J

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Re: Blue Origin Update and Discussion Thread
« Reply #2119 on: 06/26/2017 04:23 PM »
And this should end the talk of Blue Origin having no interesting in working with/for the government.  :)

No, working with state authorities is standard for new factories.  This is not the same as working with NASA or the DOD.

That's not what I meant. You probably disagree, but I think this sends clear signals to certain congressional forces that support its rival AR-1.

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