Author Topic: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement  (Read 59591 times)

Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« on: 04/15/2007 05:44 pm »
Hi there

Has there been any talk on what is going to happen with the three MPLM's after the shuttle? I know about those rumours that they may leave one or two docked to ISS, but what if they don't?

Will they get put in museums? Sold for scrap? or get used for future (Constellation) projects?

 
Thanks :)

Offline Jim

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RE: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #1 on: 04/15/2007 05:57 pm »
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 15/4/2007  1:44 PM

Hi there

Has there been any talk on what is going to happen with the three MPLM's after the shuttle? I know about those rumours that they may leave one or two docked to ISS, but what if they don't?

Will they get put in museums? Sold for scrap? or get used for future (Constellation) projects?

 
Thanks :)

No real rumours about leaving them on the ISS, just internet conjecture.  
Museums more than likely, no use in Constellation for them

Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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RE: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #2 on: 04/15/2007 06:04 pm »
Thanks Jim :)

Offline spacetiger

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RE: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #3 on: 04/26/2007 12:10 pm »
Quote
Jim - 15/4/2007  12:57 PM

Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 15/4/2007  1:44 PM

Hi there

Has there been any talk on what is going to happen with the three MPLM's after the shuttle? I know about those rumours that they may leave one or two docked to ISS, but what if they don't?

Will they get put in museums? Sold for scrap? or get used for future (Constellation) projects?

 
Thanks :)

No real rumours about leaving them on the ISS, just internet conjecture.  
Museums more than likely, no use in Constellation for them

Actually, as I understand, ISS PM has asked for an assessment to leave the last one on-orbit as a "closet". Folks are off assessing impacts and mods to make this happen. It would not be fully active, as originally planned, but would be outfitted with shielding, etc. More to come I'm sure but most likely, the mods needed may get too expensive.

Offline Jim

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #4 on: 04/26/2007 12:13 pm »
That is new info

Offline spacetiger

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #5 on: 04/26/2007 12:19 pm »
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Jim - 26/4/2007  7:13 AM

That is new info

It is...I think it came out of the SSPCB a few weeks ago...

Offline mr.columbus

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RE: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #6 on: 04/26/2007 12:42 pm »
Quote
spacetiger - 26/4/2007  8:10 AM

Quote
Jim - 15/4/2007  12:57 PM

Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 15/4/2007  1:44 PM

Hi there

Has there been any talk on what is going to happen with the three MPLM's after the shuttle? I know about those rumours that they may leave one or two docked to ISS, but what if they don't?

Will they get put in museums? Sold for scrap? or get used for future (Constellation) projects?

 
Thanks :)

No real rumours about leaving them on the ISS, just internet conjecture.  
Museums more than likely, no use in Constellation for them

Actually, as I understand, ISS PM has asked for an assessment to leave the last one on-orbit as a "closet". Folks are off assessing impacts and mods to make this happen. It would not be fully active, as originally planned, but would be outfitted with shielding, etc. More to come I'm sure but most likely, the mods needed may get too expensive.

Interesting, is there any information as to when there will be preliminary results of that assessment?

Offline whitewatcher

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #7 on: 04/26/2007 01:31 pm »
Would be a good idea to add them to the station. If you pay so much for bringing things up there, you don't tend to throw them away. The station (at least in its current condition) urgently needs more volume to store things. Maybe the following aspects need a review:
- micrometeorite/debris protection
- thermal management
- power consumption (--> context "thermal management")
- mass (more fuel required for reboost)
- docking ports (CAM is cancelled? would make a good place for the MPLM to stay...)

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Offline Jim

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #8 on: 04/26/2007 01:42 pm »
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whitewatcher - 26/4/2007  9:31 AM

- power consumption (--> context "thermal management")
- mass (more fuel required for reboost)
- docking ports (CAM is cancelled? would make a good place for the MPLM to stay...)

Propellant,  and power are not issues since the ISS doesn't have Hab and CAM using resources

The same port that MLPM's always use would make a good place

Offline Jorge

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #9 on: 04/26/2007 06:16 pm »
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whitewatcher - 26/4/2007  8:31 AM

Would be a good idea to add them to the station. If you pay so much for bringing things up there, you don't tend to throw them away.

The MPLMs don't get thrown away, they get brought back to Earth.

It is only a good idea if the benefit of the additional storage space outweighs the cost of the conversion.

Quote
The station (at least in its current condition) urgently needs more volume to store things. Maybe the following aspects need a review:
- micrometeorite/debris protection

Yes, big issue.

Quote
- thermal management
- power consumption (--> context "thermal management")

Yes, may need both shell heaters and fans (and the fans may be needed for ECLSS purposes as well; lack of circulation could lead to CO2-rich "dead spots" in the MPLM.

Quote
- mass (more fuel required for reboost)

Non-issue, especially if the MPLM is mounted in such a location that it doesn't change the frontal area of the station. And even if it is, the difference in fuel is negligible.

Quote
- docking ports (CAM is cancelled? would make a good place for the MPLM to stay...)

Non-issue. There will be plenty of spare CBMs, especially after Node 3 is installed.

And you left out comm. Current thinking is that if there will be people working in the MPLM, it will need an ATU.
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Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #10 on: 04/26/2007 07:27 pm »
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whitewatcher - 26/4/2007  2:31 PM

Would be a good idea to add them to the station. If you pay so much for bringing things up there, you don't tend to throw them away. The station (at least in its current condition) urgently needs more volume to store things.

I agree. Having a MPLM left somewhere on ISS will be really handy to just use as a closet. There is plenty of space in there for storage.

If it goes ahead, then I wonder which they would use? ;)

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #11 on: 04/26/2007 07:53 pm »
I belive the CAM was finished by JAXA, and ready for flight - would this make  be a more viable solution as it is reated for long durantion and may have the additional interor outfititng complete (or was it cancelled before it got that far?)

Offline ShuttleDiscovery

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #12 on: 04/26/2007 07:56 pm »
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bobthemonkey - 26/4/2007  8:53 PM

I belive the CAM was finished by JAXA, and ready for flight - would this make  be a more viable solution as it is reated for long durantion and may have the additional interor outfititng complete (or was it cancelled before it got that far?)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it cancelled before it got this far?  :)

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #13 on: 04/26/2007 08:03 pm »
When we were having this discussion several months ago fire detection/supression was raised as a concern.

If the MPLM is only used for non-sensitive dry goods storage would there really be a need for comm or fans? With the hatch sealed most of the time and only opened for access to goods, comm and fans could be portables from the node that it is attached to.

Taking a quick scan of the remaining shuttle manifest it would appear that there are only 2 MPLM flights left, STS-128 (17A) and STS-130 (19A) both scheduled for 2009. STS-128 is bringing up the crew quarters and galley, that MPLM might be a good candidate.
“You can’t take a traditional approach and expect anything but the traditional results, which has been broken budgets and not fielding any flight hardware.” Mike Gold - Apollo, STS, CxP; those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it: SLS.

Offline Jim

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #14 on: 04/26/2007 08:16 pm »
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Norm Hartnett - 26/4/2007  4:03 PM

If the MPLM is only used for non-sensitive dry goods storage would there really be a need for comm or fans?

Crew can't go in it without fans
Same for comm in case of evacution order or fire etc.

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #15 on: 04/26/2007 08:19 pm »
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ShuttleDiscovery - 26/4/2007  8:56 PM

Quote
bobthemonkey - 26/4/2007  8:53 PM

I belive the CAM was finished by JAXA, and ready for flight - would this make  be a more viable solution as it is reated for long durantion and may have the additional interor outfititng complete (or was it cancelled before it got that far?)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it cancelled before it got this far?  :)

The pressure shell was complete prior to cancellation, with most of the delays due to the rotor assemblt for the centrifuge, rather than the module housing it. Similarly, the old 'hard-shell' hab was ready, but that is being used elsewhere.

I'm trying ot confirm what happened to the CAM, but Japanese info always seems to be the hardest to come by.

Offline Jim

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #16 on: 04/26/2007 08:21 pm »
Old  Hab is being used as a ECLSS test bed

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #17 on: 04/26/2007 08:26 pm »
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Jim - 26/4/2007  1:16 PM

Quote
Norm Hartnett - 26/4/2007  4:03 PM

If the MPLM is only used for non-sensitive dry goods storage would there really be a need for comm or fans?

Crew can't go in it without fans
Same for comm in case of evacution order or fire etc.

So you open the hatch, point a couple of portable fans connected in the node, wait for circulation, and take the portable comms, also connected in the node in with you. Not to big a deal I would think.

As for the Hab or CAM, the MPLMs are already manifested.
“You can’t take a traditional approach and expect anything but the traditional results, which has been broken budgets and not fielding any flight hardware.” Mike Gold - Apollo, STS, CxP; those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it: SLS.

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #18 on: 04/26/2007 08:34 pm »
Yeah, and if anything goes, it will be an MPLM. I was jsut commenting that some of the work needed may complete on other modules.

Offline Jim

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Re: Use of the MPLMs after Shuttle retirement
« Reply #19 on: 04/26/2007 08:39 pm »
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Norm Hartnett - 26/4/2007  4:26 PM

1.  So you open the hatch, point a couple of portable fans connected in the node, wait for circulation,
2. take the portable comms, also connected in the node in with you.
.

1.   That doesn't work.
2.  What portable comm?

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