Author Topic: Zenit for manned launches?!?  (Read 4500 times)

Online Svetoslav

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1156
  • Bulgaria
  • Liked: 465
  • Likes Given: 65
Zenit for manned launches?!?
« on: 09/05/2008 09:15 AM »
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz_acts_history.html#bremen_2008_10

This article caught my eye...

It makes me wonder- why use Zenit for a manned launch? It fails a lot, like Proton. Remember the programs Podsadka and the fact that some soviet  stations were supposed to be launched with crew onboard.

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #1 on: 09/06/2008 02:04 AM »
Оf course, not. Not with RD-171 and foreign LV. The new heavy LV family now is considered for Vostochniy. All this ACTS stuff is for long, NET 2020. LV Zenit maybe will be dead at that time.

Offline EE Scott

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1151
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #2 on: 09/06/2008 12:18 PM »
Pardon my ignorance, but will there be any effort to manrate Angara?  Zenit was built to be manrated, so I don't see why it wouldn't be at least considered as possible launcher.  And is there an issue with RD-171?  Fantastic engine.
Scott

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #3 on: 09/06/2008 11:32 PM »
"Will be" is a right description of situation with Angara-5P, ("P" for "Piloted", i.e. manrated). But it's still unclear will ACTS fly on Angara-5P or not, especial it's doubtful for the heavy Moon-version of  this spaceship.

Problem with Zenit is its Ukrainian origin, and a new Russian Zenit-like LV with RD-171 is troubled with : if single first stage engine will fail, rocket probably destroy the new expensive launchpad on Vostochniy. Russia is not USSR, we cant afford several pads for the one type of LV on the cosmodrome. And what we will do? Stop our Manned Space Program until rebuild it? How about those guys, who waiting in space? Remember, all political sens of building Vostochniy(launching from Russia) and ACTS(landing in Russia) is "Secured National Access to Space". So it will be LVs with about 4-5 engines on the first stage, in case of failure of one engine - such LV can, at least, remove itself from launchpad.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2008 12:54 AM by pm1823 »

Offline EE Scott

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1151
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #4 on: 09/07/2008 01:48 AM »
Very interesting, thanks for the background.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2008 01:48 AM by EE Scott »
Scott

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #5 on: 09/07/2008 02:40 AM »
RKK Energia presentation of ACTS concepts in Japan.

http://www.senkyo.co.jp/ists2008/pdf/2008-o-3-06v.pdf

Online eeergo

  • Phystronaut
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4977
  • Milan, Italy; Spain; Japan
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 462
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #6 on: 09/07/2008 10:24 PM »
Very interesting presentation, thanks for that! I don't understand why Mr Bryukhanov mixes conceptual designs (nuclear propulsion, mega electrical tugs) with projects with good chances of being developed (Russian Segment, Parom tug, new capsule, cargo return vehicule based on Soyuz) It makes it difficult to know which projects are being taken seriously and which not.

I specially liked seeing Parom as something to be -presumably- built somewhere in the near future, along with the Soyuz-derived CaRV. If you don't mind, I will link the presentation in the RS thread, given the nice summary it contains.
-DaviD-

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #7 on: 09/07/2008 10:55 PM »
Only First Phase till 2020 can be "taken seriously", on my personal view, other is just the "Energia Vision of the Future Russian Space Exploration". But we talking about concepts in this topic, so all of this is conceptual. ;)
« Last Edit: 09/07/2008 10:59 PM by pm1823 »

Offline pippin

  • Regular
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
  • Liked: 290
  • Likes Given: 39
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #8 on: 09/08/2008 12:00 AM »
Is all of the near term stuff really in the making?
I'm talking about the "under development" stuff:
Cargo Return Vehicle
Node Module
Multi-Purpose Laboratory Module
Mini Research Module 1 (to be launched by Shuttle, I assume this is on ULF4?)
Mini Research Module 2 (2009, shouldn't that one be manifested already? Can't find it on the "Plan of Russian Launches" thread.

Online eeergo

  • Phystronaut
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4977
  • Milan, Italy; Spain; Japan
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 462
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #9 on: 09/08/2008 12:10 AM »
Is all of the near term stuff really in the making?
I'm talking about the "under development" stuff:
Cargo Return Vehicle
Node Module
Multi-Purpose Laboratory Module
Mini Research Module 1 (to be launched by Shuttle, I assume this is on ULF4?)
Mini Research Module 2 (2009, shouldn't that one be manifested already? Can't find it on the "Plan of Russian Launches" thread.

See this reply by Danderman: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg307376#msg307376

Both MRMs are quite quoted in Russian media, and their launches are pretty soon (MRM-1 should be finished more or less at the same time as -2, given it has to be shipped to KSC, checked... before the mission) MLM is the main Russian module, to be launched with the European Robotic Arm, and is quoted to be around 70-75% development, so I would assume its launch is certain, perhaps with a longer delay than advertised. The node would be pretty cheap to launch (Soyuz, small volume) so that wouldn't be much of a stretch. I pretty much agree with pm1823's view on this, although I'm under the impression he has more in-depth info than I do. :)
-DaviD-

Offline pm1823

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #10 on: 09/08/2008 11:05 AM »
Quote
be launched with the European Robotic Arm, and is quoted to be around 70-75% development,

ERA can be removed from the MLM's launch because of new payload mass restrain. (see this link in Russian). And FGB-2 was about 70% ready in 2001. :) Current state of progress hard to define, because of unknown status of main subsystems development in several institutions and previous financing on the zero level. It can be finished in two years if it get full-scale financing, but than it will fly empty, w/o science payload, which even not contracted, as I know.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2008 11:06 AM by pm1823 »

Offline patchfree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
  • webmaster and russian space fan
  • Poitiers, France
    • kosmosnews.fr, l'actualité spatiale russe en français
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Zenit for manned launches?!?
« Reply #11 on: 09/14/2008 07:04 PM »
In a meeting between Putin and Ivanov about space budget for 3 years (2009-2011) they decided to fund these several ISS russian modules.
http://kosmosnews.fr l'actualité spatiale russe en français

Tags: