Author Topic: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)  (Read 994616 times)

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1360 on: 12/10/2017 12:44 am »
Wow, if you can get Michael Key to put a 1/144 scale intertank on Shapeways, I would love to get one.   

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1361 on: 12/10/2017 08:35 am »
Thanks Ron for your nice words,
Michael Key will be pleased if he hears of your interest.
But tell me, what kind of Shuttle Stack kit do you want to use?

This Intertank (1:144) is compatible with the Airfix External Tank, which is constructed differently and therefore differs slightly from the Revell ET, which should be noted.

***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1362 on: 12/11/2017 10:17 pm »
Airfix, of course! 

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1363 on: 12/11/2017 10:50 pm »
Hi Ron,
okay, then stay tuned and be attentive.

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Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1364 on: 12/11/2017 11:23 pm »
Hello everyone,

and my hope was not disappointed. Yesterday Michael Key came up with a new update in which he took into account some of my correction hints.

On the one hand, it has reduced his previous, somewhat too large number of stringer in the two Thrust Panel to 26, as well as the perpendicularly extending circumferential segment rings somewhat narrower made, which looks much better.


Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

And on the other hand, he has adapted the geometry of the front and rear transitions from the Intertank to the ET better to the original.


Source: NASA

as you can see here, all respect. 


Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

In order to be able to continue modeling, he now needs the exact location of the SRB Forward Attachment Points, as well as the location of the LO2 Feedline (Ø 17'') and of the GO2 and GH2 Pressure Lines (Ø 2'') , shown in this drawing.


Source: Lockheed Martin (System Definition Handbook SLWT - Vol. II)

The only question is whether or how well the details of the Shuttle Stack from the Airfix Kit match this original drawing, or not.

In order to be able to check these details on the shuttle stack, I had to disassemble my previously provisionally taped Test-stack and then to attach the kit supports at the SRB on the ET-Attachment Ring to determine the exact position of the coupling point on the Intertank.





With the glued supports, the location of the SRB on the ET was now fixed exactly,



and could be marked again.



After that, I was amazed that my border of the front SRB docking pad, previously marked with tape on the test stack, was sitting actually a bit too deep,  which could now be corrected. 






Then I still determined the location of the LO2 feedline on the Intertank and was pleasantly surprised that the angle of 23° matches with the value in the above drawing.



However, what is less consistent with the original is the spartan version of the feedline itself and the lack of coverage (Fairing).


Source: NASA

This has been realized much better by Revell on their ET-Intertank, as you can see here at the ET of my recently unexpectedly deceased friend Thomas from Bavaria, whose Real Space Modeling estate was taken over by me.




In view of this, after careful consideration and in coordination with his wife and son, I have come to the conclusion that it would be also in his sense to at least partly preserve his model-building heritage, when I would integrate some of his assemblies and parts, e.g. the already LED illuminated FSS platforms and the Hammerhead Crane as well as the PE staircases for the tower, etc. into my model and would thus be able to document and honor his awesome modeling work and skills for everyone visibly posthumously. - May he rest in peace ...

And here finally the distance of the coupling point for Michael Key, which lies approximately in the middle.



At this point, a continuous inner tube is foreseen into which I will later insert a brass rod (Ø 2 mm) to stabilize the SRBs.


Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 06:28 am by roma847 »
***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1365 on: 12/13/2017 12:08 am »
So sorry about your friend.  But a great tribute to incorporate parts of his work in yours!

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1366 on: 12/13/2017 12:56 am »
The intertanks for the LWTs, which was first used on STS-6 were different from the intertanks used for the SLWTs. For one, the SRB thrust panels were completely smooth, they didn't have the stringer valleys that were used on the SLWTs. Also, the I/Ts were equipped with two Shuttle Range Safety System (SRSS) antennas located 180°s apart. The +Z SRSS antenna can be seen to the left in the second attached photo, to the left of the +Z aerovent.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 12:57 am by DaveS »
"For Sardines, space is no problem!"
-1996 Astronaut class slogan

"We're rolling in the wrong direction but for the right reasons"
-USA engineer about the rollback of Discovery prior to the STS-114 Return To Flight mission

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1367 on: 12/13/2017 06:35 am »
So sorry about your friend.  But a great tribute to incorporate parts of his work in yours!

Thanks Ron for your condolence.

The way I came to know him the last two years, I could imagine that he would be happy for sharing my model with him and in this way would always keep him an honorable memory in our Raumcon forum, especially as we behind the scenes anyway have worked together closely and constantly exchanged and still had many common plans ...

***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1368 on: 12/14/2017 08:55 pm »
The intertanks for the LWTs, which was first used on STS-6 were different from the intertanks used for the SLWTs. For one, the SRB thrust panels were completely smooth, they didn't have the stringer valleys that were used on the SLWTs. Also, the I/Ts were equipped with two Shuttle Range Safety System (SRSS) antennas located 180°s apart. The +Z SRSS antenna can be seen to the left in the second attached photo, to the left of the +Z aerovent.

Hello Dave,
Donald Trump would say, "Only Fake-News".

BTW, I know these images from the CD by J. L. Pickering (retrospaceimages), but these pics unfortunately don't show the Thrust Panel Stringers/Ribs close enough.

But here is a great Hi-Res image from woods170 in the awesome thread by jacqmans STS-6: Hi Res Images, where one can definitely see these ribs,



Maybe that they have not the same height as the stringers in the Stringer Panels.



« Last Edit: 07/19/2018 10:52 pm by roma847 »
***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1369 on: 12/15/2017 08:59 pm »
Hello everybody,

in the direct comparison of the two ETs I noticed that the Revell IT is about three millimeters further back than on the Airfix ET while the lengths and diameters are almost identical.



And because we are comparing the two stack kits, I also looked at the SRBs a bit more closely and also found some differences.



Apart from the smaller number of lower rings, the Revell-SRB appears less filigree than the Airfix SRB, particularly caused by the larger Aft Skirt Hold-down Posts and the sturdier supports on the ET Attachment Ring, although the diameters are comparable.

If one compares the two undersides of the Aft Skirts, one will notice that the ring-shaped heat shield on the Airfix SRB is too narrow-breasted, which Revell has not solve optimally, but at least better,



what the comparison with this picture makes clear, even if it is just a Mock-up on the KSC grounds. 


Source: NASA

Probably that has animated my ARC friend Bill (niart17) to 3D-modeling of his Heat shields (1:72).


Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

But neither the heat shield of the Mock-up nor the 3D printing are perfect, as the original consists of 24 segments, as one can see in this drawing.


Source: Space Transportation System - HAER No. TX-116
And so it is also with the kits, no one is perfect, everyone has their advantages and disadvantages.

« Last Edit: 12/15/2017 09:26 pm by roma847 »
***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1370 on: 12/17/2017 10:50 pm »
Hello everybody,

now, of course, the question araises, how one could preferably scratch this heat shield, has anyone from the round possibly a useful tip?

Here also still an original photo, whereby these foam insulation under the rings in the early missions did not exist then.


Source: NASA

At first I thought of a suitable ring that one would have to halve, but so far I could not find anything like that. 

Or I could try to model such a half ring, e.g. by using Epoxie Sculpt on a circular ring from Sheet.

The easiest way would be for sure if I could motivate Michael Key to model such heat shields in 1/144 for 3D printing, similar as my friend Bill (niart17) made it in 1/72, although I do not necessarily want to overwhelm him with further extra wishes.
So, what else are there for suggestions or ideas?

***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1371 on: 12/18/2017 11:03 pm »
Hello friends,

BTW, after I've measured the SRB in the last photo again more exactly, I still hit on another idea.

Make one out of two! 

I also still have a Revell Stack from the kit and could combine its Aft Skirt-Ring, which does not look too bad, with the Airfix Disc.



And I would imagine that the result could well become a useful compromise.

« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 11:10 pm by roma847 »
***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1372 on: 12/19/2017 03:10 am »
I was thinking you could sculpt one.  But, I can't wait to see what you do with this idea.

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1373 on: 12/21/2017 11:02 pm »
Hello Ron,

but before I start with this, I want to wait some time, because my friend Joe from the ARC Forum has offered his help to try to model this part in 1:144 for 3D printing.

These are the parts of the Airfix SRB & Aft Skirt,



and here is my little sketch of the ASTC, technically known as the Aft Skirt Thermal Curtain, which is desribed in this interesting report SRB Thermal Curtain Design Support.



The ASTC is a flexible, high temperature, cloth and insulation composite that is used to protect the hardware located inside the aft skirt of the SRB, which consists of nine layers of insulating materials and is 2.58 inches thick. The ASTC is made up of twenty four segments, which are hand sewn together during installation on the aft skirt, what one can see here.


Source: NASA

In this report there are some interesting drawings oft the ASTC, which might be helpful during 3D modeling of this detail.





That's why I'm thinking, that the segments should be more curved than in my friend Bill's 3D model (1:72), where they are more flat.


Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

In my opinion White Strong & Flexible should be a good choise for the 3D print.
Now I can only hope, that my friend Joe can come up with a good approach.

« Last Edit: 12/22/2017 02:07 pm by roma847 »
***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1374 on: 12/22/2017 04:26 pm »
Hello everyone,
because that just now fits in well, so the ASTCs look like, respectively what remained of them after a launch.


Source: trn.trains.com (Route of the Rockets)

This great photo from the salvage of the SRBs has been posted by a girlfriend from Papermodelers forum, which was a crucial help in solving one of my last riddles with a strange equipment on the inner walls of the SRB Exhaust Chambers of the MLP.

When looking at the circled detail of this photo, I immediately recalled, because this item is strangely wrapped on many photos, as one can see here.


Source: NASA

Here one can detect a little bit more,


Source: NASA

and here one can see it under the SRB Aft Skirt,


Source: NASA

in direct contact with the above circled interface, and both parts are like chalk and cheese.



But nevertheless the question remains, as to what these devices were used for and whether they existed from the start, or whether they were eventually retrofitted?
BTW, from time to time such ASTC segments even appear in the "Bay", it's hard to believe ...


Source: ebay.com

So my friends, at this point I want to remind you once again of my Christmas decorated MLP from the previous year,



and wish you all

« Last Edit: 12/22/2017 10:03 pm by roma847 »
***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1375 on: 12/23/2017 12:11 am »
Wow, cool discovery!  And Merry Christmas to you!

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1376 on: 12/23/2017 10:51 am »
Thanks Ron for your good wishes, and also to you and your family Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
A girlfriend in our Raumcon forum has further decorated my MLP nicely.



Now Santa Claus can come ...

***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline leeg

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1377 on: 12/24/2017 07:38 pm »
Merry Christmas to all of you.
Greg

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1378 on: 12/25/2017 12:10 pm »
Thanks Greg, and the same for you and your family.
 


Merry Christmas!!!

***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

Offline roma847

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1379 on: 12/30/2017 05:38 pm »
Hello everybody between the years,

and back to the Aft Skirt Thermal Curtains (ASTC) and my friend Joe (crackerjazz) from the ARC Forum, who wanted to model these pieces in 1:144 for 3D printing at Shapeways.

And he actually has kept his word and presented his first 3D models, which look quite passable.   


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)

Since the initially intended quality White Strong & Flexible (WSF) might be too grainy for these small parts, Frosted Ultra Detail (FUD) might be more favourable, although a bit more expensive.

The ASTC rings from the Newware-Enhancement Kit (NW131) Space Shuttle with Boosters for the Revell Stack (1:144) look like these, which was used by another ARC friend.


Source: arcforums.com (egt95)
The width of the seams between the 24 segments I measured once again in this Hi-Res photo and should be only approx. 0.1 mm in 1:144, which might be indicated by fine grooves. 


Source: NASA
My friend wants to upload his 3D model to Shapeways, and then we'll see how much it'll turn out ...

At this point I wish you all a Happy New Year!
 

***************
Regards from Germany

Manfred

Under construction:
1:144 Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

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