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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Falcon Missions Section => Topic started by: Danderman on 03/02/2009 02:47 pm

Title: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Danderman on 03/02/2009 02:47 pm
http://sefspaceworks.com/?q=node/154

"Astronautic Technology Sdn Bhd is preparing to launch the RazakSAT small satellite by May of 2009 after several multi-year launch delays."

 :P
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 03/02/2009 04:46 pm
(Only an official announcement can kick off a launch thread! - Andy).

http://sefspaceworks.com/?q=node/154

"Astronautic Technology Sdn Bhd is preparing to launch the RazakSAT small satellite by May of 2009 after several multi-year launch delays."

ok how did you find that tidbit.. :)
good find...let count down begin..well sort of..lol
cheers
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/02/2009 04:54 pm
Technically, they are targeting an April launch and May at the latest. Still, it's kind of early to be talking about the launch yet.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/03/2009 11:45 am
Well, I would say that 8-10 weeks is close enough to be seriously talking about launch coverage ;)

Of course, this is really the one that Space-X needs to get right this year.  If Falcon-1 doesn't perform, then they might be set back years because of the loss of customers.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/03/2009 12:26 pm
RazakSat overview

Quote
The objectives of the project are to provide high-resolution images for Malaysia and build Malaysian space technology capabilities through ATSB®. In order to meet the technology objective, a cost-effective high resolution imaging system for Earth observation specifically for a small satellite less than 200 kg was implemented. RazakSAT® carries the Medium-sized Aperture Camera (MAC) that will provide 2.5m resolution panchromatic and 5.0m resolution multi-spectral images. This project involves the design, development, launch and operations of the satellite.

http://www.atsb.my/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=104

Also of note is that according to the launch manifest, this is the last launch of a Falcon 1(c), the Falcon 1e will replace it on the next launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Graham on 03/03/2009 12:30 pm
Secondary payloads will be the CubeSAT and InnoSAT Cubesats. There was also some talk of a US Government nanosat at one point, but that seems to have subsided. I'm pretty sure they're not going to fly the 19-cubesat mission which was manifested back in 2006.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/03/2009 12:33 pm
Of course, this is really the one that Space-X needs to get right this year.  If Falcon-1 doesn't perform, then they might be set back years because of the loss of customers.

They've got a lot more riding on F9 than F1, but if it fails it certainly won't help their reputation.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2009 03:01 pm
Re: The thread title. 

It is "Falcon 1", not "Falcon I", per SpaceX.

And "Launch V"?  SpaceX identified the most recent launch "Flight 4". 

Common usage of Roman numerals ended in the 15th Century, after the fall of Constantinople!

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Lars_J on 03/03/2009 04:01 pm
Common usage of Roman numerals ended in the 15th Century, after the fall of Constantinople!

Ha! Tell that to NASA!  ;D ;D ;D (Ares V anyone?) And Boeing... And LM...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/03/2009 04:03 pm
There's no Falcon 1c either...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Art LeBrun on 03/03/2009 04:10 pm
Falcon IX ?...............
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: dmc6960 on 03/03/2009 06:14 pm
SpaceX calls it Falcon 9.   And this version of Falcon 1, is just, Falcon 1.  1C is the current version of the Merlin booster engines.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Comga on 03/04/2009 05:16 am
There's no Falcon 1c either...

Because they are really Musk's rockets, his designation IS the official name. However, as he seems to be treating them like software, with major and minor updates at least as fast as he launches them, some nomenclature for keeping track of the hardware is helpful, even if it is unofficial.  Calling a Falcon 1 with a Merlin 1c engine a Falcon 1c sounds useful to me, especially to differentiate it from the upcoming Falcon 1e.

Whatever we call it, it will be good to see some new hardware photos.     
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/04/2009 07:38 am
Because they are really Musk's rockets, his designation IS the official name.

Which is precisely why we should stick with official names. We don't rename other rockets at will either. The notion that calling it Falcon 1c is useful falls apart because the Falcon 1e also uses Merlin 1c so they are identical in this regard. By this reasoning both should be called Falcon 1c.

We might as well call it Daffy Duck then.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: mr.columbus on 03/04/2009 08:38 am

Of course, this is really the one that Space-X needs to get right this year.  If Falcon-1 doesn't perform, then they might be set back years because of the loss of customers.

No, I don't think so. Still, a 4th failure out of 5 launches will be hard to spin, especially considering that they now claim to have an "operational" rocket. Also, there are no other Falcon 1 launches planned in 2009, so it's a different situation from last year when they could just focus everybody on the next launch a couple of months later.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: wannamoonbase on 03/04/2009 12:29 pm
Common usage of Roman numerals ended in the 15th Century, after the fall of Constantinople!

 - Ed Kyle

And almost all of the rest of the world uses the Metric system. (note tag line)

I don't like roman numerals either.  If we could agree to read the roman numerals (i.e. Eye-Ex instead of IX) then we would stop using them in minutes as everyone heard how bizarre it is.

Regarding the upcoming Falcon-1 launch.  They have the highest likelyhood of success of the 5 launches because they have had success and probably the least amount of changes between flights.

If it flies successfully it helps them build confidence and reputation.  And maybe some future customer orders for the Falcon 1.

Good luck SpaceX.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/04/2009 01:13 pm
You have a typo in your tag line ...

While we are at it, I have always have had a problem using mythical roman/greek names to designate american rockets. For american rockets why not something like "John Henry" or "Paul Bunyan" for a heavy lift. This is one thing I feel spaceX has gotten right, Falcon is a good name... As for Merlin and Dragon, well we can quible. He should change them to something like "Rude Goldberg" and "Covered Wagon". Or "Edison" and "Johnny Appleseed".
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: mike robel on 03/04/2009 01:25 pm
WRT to Roman Numerals, Excel can convert Arabic to Roman and do calculations in them.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: bad_astra on 03/04/2009 03:50 pm
"Covered Wagon".


I like the idea of American mythology (what there is of it) as a rocket name, but I don't think anyone wants to name an LV something close to Connestoga, now. :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/04/2009 05:06 pm
While we are at it, I have always have had a problem using mythical roman/greek names to designate american rockets. For american rockets why not something like "John Henry" or "Paul Bunyan" for a heavy lift. This is one thing I feel spaceX has gotten right, Falcon is a good name... As for Merlin and Dragon, well we can quible. He should change them to something like "Rude Goldberg" and "Covered Wagon". Or "Edison" and "Johnny Appleseed".


Bird names (Eagle, Falcon, Hawk) seem appropriate, until you get to Albatross.  ;)  Falcon is a real bird type.  Dragon can be a mythical "bird" if it has wings.

Star or constellation names (Cygnus, Draco, Hercules, Orion, Pegasus, Taurus, etc.) would seem to offer an abundant set of naming options.  http://www.naic.edu/~gibson/starnames/starnames.lst

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/04/2009 05:18 pm

until you get to Albatross.  ;)


A bird that is more at home in the air than on the land is the perfect name.

Just like the supper intelligent eagle eyed turkey is the perfect name for an image recon bird :) The Virginia Big Eared Bat (Corynorhinus townsendii virginianus) is the perfect name for an elint or radar payload (Though they are big, quite ugly, and temperamental, then I repeat myself about NRO payloads ;) (http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/bats/va_big_eared_bat.htm), pip's are cuter).

Like I said we have much heritage in the US to pull names for rockets and payloads from, why do we have to go to Europe for names?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/04/2009 05:23 pm
Falcon is a real bird type.  Dragon can be a mythical "bird" if it has wings.

Yet, by some sources Falcon got its name not off a real bird, but the Millenium Falcon so...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 03/04/2009 05:25 pm
When it comes to naming Dragon spacecraft, there's plenty to draw from there, since mythological and fictional dragons often have personal names. I named the two fiction Dragon spacecraft in one of my stories Fafnir (from Norse mythology) and Smaug (from "The Hobbit"). A space traveler could also name rockets and spacecraft after rocketships from literature. My favorites from childhood were Star Spear (Tom Swift, Jr. 3-stage LEO spaceplane) and Polaris (Tom Corbett's Solar Guard nuclear space cruiser).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: antonioe on 03/04/2009 05:29 pm

I don't like roman numerals either.  If we could agree to read the roman numerals (i.e. Eye-Ex instead of IX) then we would stop using them in minutes as everyone heard how bizarre it is.

Good luck SpaceX.


Don't you mean "Space10"?


Star or constellation names (Cygnus, Draco, Hercules, Orion, Pegasus, Taurus, etc.) would seem to offer an abundant set of naming options.  http://www.naic.edu/~gibson/starnames/starnames.lst

 - Ed Kyle

Except Pegasus was named after a  Spanish sports car of the 1950's...  (http://wikicars.org/en/Pegaso_Z-102)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/05/2009 09:29 am
I may be wrong, but over on the Space-X Q&A thread, I was lead to understand that Elon Musk has said that Falcon-1/RazakSat launch will definately be carried out before Space-X starts working on launching the Falcon-9 prototype.  Has this changed, or are you simply making a guess?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2009 10:38 am
Has this changed, or are you simply making a guess?

Without knowing which people do what at SpaceX in launch campaigns, he's making a guess. Beginning with F1 payload arrival and integration (2 weeks before launch), or even system readiness review (4-6 weeks prior), it's a relatively short amount of time compared to what still needs to be done at the Cape. There's gonna be at least some two months between two launches. Assuming F1 gets off mid May and F9 mid July (optimistic).

There's plenty of stuff that still needs to be done at the Cape - pad checkouts, wet dress rehearsals before a launch campaign is initiated that I don't believe 20-odd people required for F1 preps need to spend all their time there during the period. My opinion is F1 launch campaign should have little or no direct impact on F9 campaign, not any more than say testing in McGregor had on F1 flight 4.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2009 12:38 pm
The engines tested in F9 multiple engine firings were ran at full rated thrust so they're qualified. Two throttled-down Merlins already flew on F1 so they have flight history as well.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nate_Trost on 03/05/2009 04:46 pm
As far as I can discern, the breakdown is as follows:

Merlin 1C (original turbopump)
Falcon 1 - downrated
Falcon 9 block 1 - full thrust

Merlin 1C (turbopump upgrade, supposed to be ready for 2010)
Falcon 1e
Falcon 9 block 2
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: wannamoonbase on 03/05/2009 05:06 pm
Antonioe, the X in SpaceX means exploration I hope.  If it is a 10 then I will call then Space10.

Interesting note on Pegasus' name.  I would have though star or mythical creature.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kraisee on 03/05/2009 05:46 pm
Space-X = Space EXploration Technologies Corporation.

R.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Andy USA on 03/05/2009 06:45 pm
Posts such as "I think SpaceX is the best thing since God." and "I think SpaceX sucks, I love ULA. GO Denver!" = deletion. That's because this thread is specific to this launch and this payload, pending confirmation.

We could probably set up a "I think..." thread, but it would not reflect all that well on the site's community if that thread gained more posts and views than actual update threads, so we probably should not show encouragement for that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: PlanetStorm on 03/05/2009 06:50 pm
Space-X = Space EXploration Technologies Corporation.

R.

Maybe not. "X" appears in lot of things Musk has been involved with. e.g. X.com, etc. "X" just seems like one of his signatures, rather than having any specific meaning.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 03/05/2009 06:52 pm

I don't like roman numerals either.  If we could agree to read the roman numerals (i.e. Eye-Ex instead of IX) then we would stop using them in minutes as everyone heard how bizarre it is.

Good luck SpaceX.


Don't you mean "Space10"?


Star or constellation names (Cygnus, Draco, Hercules, Orion, Pegasus, Taurus, etc.) would seem to offer an abundant set of naming options.  http://www.naic.edu/~gibson/starnames/starnames.lst

 - Ed Kyle

Except Pegasus was named after a  Spanish sports car of the 1950's...  (http://wikicars.org/en/Pegaso_Z-102)

Well, there goes my hope of seeing it one day launch a satellite named Bellerophon...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: HMXHMX on 03/05/2009 11:19 pm

I don't like roman numerals either.  If we could agree to read the roman numerals (i.e. Eye-Ex instead of IX) then we would stop using them in minutes as everyone heard how bizarre it is.

Good luck SpaceX.


Don't you mean "Space10"?


Star or constellation names (Cygnus, Draco, Hercules, Orion, Pegasus, Taurus, etc.) would seem to offer an abundant set of naming options.  http://www.naic.edu/~gibson/starnames/starnames.lst

 - Ed Kyle

Except Pegasus was named after a  Spanish sports car of the 1950's...  (http://wikicars.org/en/Pegaso_Z-102)

Well, there goes my hope of seeing it one day launch a satellite named Bellerophon...

Antonio doesn't know this, but many years ago, when I foolishly thought it might be worth competing with Pegasus, the internal code name for my conceptual vehicle design was...Bellerophon...the hero who tamed/broke Pegasus.  I've loved the name since Forbidden Planet came out.

I came to my senses and realized there was no market.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the upcoming SpaceX launch, except that today I listened to a luncheon speaker from SpaceX stating that F1 number 5 will fly at the end of April and was just shipped to Kwaj.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: peachman on 03/06/2009 02:40 am
Don't you mean "Space10"?

He was playing off a joke earlier in the thread about the use of Roman numerals. So no, its SpaceX.

And someone else said they thought the X in SpaceX was just a signature of Elon Musk because he had a company called X.com. He might have abbreviated it as a signature, who knows, but the X actually does mean eXploration technologies.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/06/2009 08:29 am
today I listened to a luncheon speaker from SpaceX stating that F1 number 5 will fly at the end of April and was just shipped to Kwaj.

Finally, a snippet of actual news concerning flight 5. Thanks, HMXHMX.

Did that speaker by any chance mention anything F9-related?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: antonioe on 03/06/2009 04:38 pm

Antonio doesn't know this, but many years ago, when I foolishly thought it might be worth competing with Pegasus, the internal code name for my conceptual vehicle design was...Bellerophon...the hero who tamed/broke Pegasus.  I've loved the name since Forbidden Planet came out.

Uhh.. wasn't the Bellerophon destroyed by the invisible monster created from Dr. Morbius' sub-conscious by the Krell machine?  Man, you should choose you names more carefully...

Quote
I came to my senses and realized there was no market.

A wise man!  Certaily wiser than the rest of us...

Don't you mean "Space10"?
He was playing off a joke earlier in the thread about the use of Roman numerals. So no, its SpaceX.

Gee, thanks... I didn't know that... :o
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: HMXHMX on 03/06/2009 06:19 pm

Antonio doesn't know this, but many years ago, when I foolishly thought it might be worth competing with Pegasus, the internal code name for my conceptual vehicle design was...Bellerophon...the hero who tamed/broke Pegasus.  I've loved the name since Forbidden Planet came out.

Uhh.. wasn't the Bellerophon destroyed by the invisible monster created from Dr. Morbius' sub-conscious by the Krell machine?  Man, you should choose you names more carefully...

Er, yes, yes it was.  I thought you might overlook that...but she was also the ship of the line to which Napoleon Bonaparte surrendered and was transported to St. Helena.

BTW, for some of us the "Krell" have entered the engineering lexicon.  As in: "...behold the launch erector of the Krell" said in relation to the SeaLaunch Zenit erector.  You get the idea.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1c Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: HMXHMX on 03/06/2009 06:31 pm
today I listened to a luncheon speaker from SpaceX stating that F1 number 5 will fly at the end of April and was just shipped to Kwaj.

Finally, a snippet of actual news concerning flight 5. Thanks, HMXHMX.

Did that speaker by any chance mention anything F9-related?

Just the usual: on course, on track, fair wind at our back...  ;)

More seriously, at one point he mentioned a June/July launch and then I thought I heard him say September later on in the presentation.  I wasn't paying close attention so could well be mistaken about the later date, or it may have been a misstatement on his part.

Interestingly, no mention of F9 recovery attempts during early flights, far as I could tell.  Maybe he just overlooked mentioning it.  He also claimed that the only thing necessary to convert the cargo Dragon to crewed Dragon was the addition of some "minor" ECLSS, avionics and the escape tower.  I didn't have a chance to ask if they intend to develop the tower in-house.  It would have been a fair question since virtually every slide referenced the business strategy of not using outside vendors and the wisdom of being vertically integrated.  (A bit of wisdom I don't share, based on decades of hard experience...) 

I also wanted to ask about the after effects, if any, of the fire at their test site, and if it affected qualification firings of the second stage.  I note there have been no reports of any such integrated stage two firings.  But no opportunity.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon I Launch V - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 03/06/2009 11:04 pm
Re: The thread title. 

It is "Falcon 1", not "Falcon I", per SpaceX.

And "Launch V"?  SpaceX identified the most recent launch "Flight 4". 

Common usage of Roman numerals ended in the 15th Century, after the fall of Constantinople!

 - Ed Kyle
Thanks for clarifying that, edkyleIC!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Antares on 03/08/2009 12:45 am
Actually, it would be edkyleXCIX.  There's some rule about not putting something more than 10x below the one that's being modified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals#XCIX_vs._IC

But that's enough non-Space trivia for this thread.  Would that the number of Apollo launches or Atlas or Delta models were high enough to worry about these rules.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: duane on 03/08/2009 03:44 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals#XCIX_vs._IC


That's proof that everything is available on the web. Long ago I even saw instructions on how to fold fitted sheets.

Regarding the SpaceX fire at McGregor Tx. I have not seen anymore details come out except for some local news blurbs from Texas, that said basically nothing. Just wondering if anyone knows what actually happened ?

Thanks!
Duane
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/08/2009 08:26 pm

Regarding the SpaceX fire at McGregor Tx. I have not seen anymore details come out except for some local news blurbs from Texas, that said basically nothing. Just wondering if anyone knows what actually happened ?


Why say anything unless you have to (Someone gets hurt, Osha fine, delays the program). They are a private company, I would bet the people who do know would fear for there jobs if they leak what happened.

I think the best way to find out is to have someone in the press (like Chris ... jab jab ...) directly ask Mr. Musk. He can choose to ignore or actually say what happened. That way no one gets in trouble for spilling the beans. He can not fire himself.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 03/09/2009 06:49 am
Is there any concrete progress on this issue, rather than naming the launch vehicle?

Did the launch vehicle leave the factory for Razaksat launch? How is the satellite's status? It has been waiting to be launched since 2 years in Kwajalein. What about the hydrazine and battery status?

Did FAA approved the launch?

Any real update?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nathan on 03/09/2009 07:30 am
Is there any concrete progress on this issue, rather than naming the launch vehicle?

Did the launch vehicle leave the factory for Razaksat launch? How is the satellite's status? It has been waiting to be launched since 2 years in Kwajalein. What about the hydrazine and battery status?

Did FAA approved the launch?

Any real update?

The FAA has approved the launch. The site below has shown the approval for quite some time though.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/launch_data/upcoming_launch/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2009 11:22 am
How is the satellite's status? It has been waiting to be launched since 2 years in Kwajalein. What about the hydrazine and battery status?


Where was it said that the spacecraft has been at Kwaj for 2 years.  It would not be loaded with hydrazine that long
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/09/2009 11:42 am
The spacecraft had its share of problems and delays, too, but to be honest the majority of the delays were probably due to the launch vehicle.

Saying it was lying around at Kwaj for 2 years is just ignorant.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/09/2009 08:27 pm
The FAA has approved the launch. The site below has shown the approval for quite some time though.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/launch_data/upcoming_launch/

This page has not changed in several months. No new news.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/09/2009 08:54 pm
Did the launch vehicle leave the factory for Razaksat launch? How is the satellite's status? It has been waiting to be launched since 2 years in Kwajalein. What about the hydrazine and battery status?

Jim or one of the other professionals.  When a payload is on an indeterminate delay (as in it will be 6-12 months plus before it launches), how is the spacecraft stored?  I assume it is not fueled until it has a set launch date, but do they remove or not install the batteries?  Are the only systems that are time sensitive the batteries and fuel?  Do they vacuum seal the vehicle?  Do they keep it at room temperature, or lower?  Who owns the vehicle during the delay, the launcher, the contractor who built the vehicle, or the customer who ordered the vehicle?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2009 09:55 pm

1.    When a payload is on an indeterminate delay (as in it will be 6-12 months plus before it launches), how is the spacecraft stored? 
2.  I assume it is not fueled until it has a set launch date,
3.  but do they remove or not install the batteries? 
4.  Are the only systems that are time sensitive the batteries and fuel? 
5.  Do they vacuum seal the vehicle? 
6.  Do they keep it at room temperature, or lower? 
7. Who owns the vehicle during the delay, the launcher, the contractor who built the vehicle, or the customer who ordered the vehicle?

1.  In a clean room, usually bagged
2.  correct
3.  Batteries are usually installed at the factory long before shipment.  battery maintenance (trickle charge, charge/discharge cycles, etc) is usually done during the delay
4.  There might be others like cryogens.  But some instruments once at cryogenic temps might need to be maintained at them. 
5.  no, just covered with cleanroom compatible film
6.  Standard clearoom temp 65-75 f
7. The launcher never owns it.  As for the customer or the contractor, it depends on the contract and when the vehicle is turnover. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: duane on 03/09/2009 10:46 pm

Regarding the SpaceX fire at McGregor Tx. I have not seen anymore details come out except for some local news blurbs from Texas, that said basically nothing. Just wondering if anyone knows what actually happened ?


Why say anything unless you have to (Someone gets hurt, Osha fine, delays the program). They are a private company, I would bet the people who do know would fear for there jobs if they leak what happened.

I think the best way to find out is to have someone in the press (like Chris ... jab jab ...) directly ask Mr. Musk. He can choose to ignore or actually say what happened. That way no one gets in trouble for spilling the beans. He can not fire himself.

Point taken Kevin

Just wondering because the fire was in the news, and local fire departments were involved. Not that private a matter if fire department gets involved.

Assuming it was not a big deal, but yea I would love to have someone who has access to Musk to ask a question like that.

You're right though, probably not wanting OSHA to swoosh down on them (if they have not already) because of it.

Thanks
Duane
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/10/2009 01:09 am
You're right though, probably not wanting OSHA to swoosh down on them (if they have not already) because of it.

My point was unless there is a legal action taken against spaceX for the fire there does not need to be a public disclosure. It is just between them and what ever local regulatory agency(s) they answer to. Besides the "agency(s)" only need to report the fire and any "unsafe" practices if it warrants legal action. That might not tell you much beyond there was a fire.

You should not fear OSHA, if you fear OSHA you are doing something you shouldn't be. OSHA is you and your coworker’s best friend.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 03/10/2009 06:40 am
Is there anybody here from ATSB? If yes, could she/he inform us about the Razaksat's status?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nathan on 03/10/2009 07:18 am
The FAA has approved the launch. The site below has shown the approval for quite some time though.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/launch_data/upcoming_launch/

This page has not changed in several months. No new news.

Huh? It's not new news but it answers the question asked which was "has the FAA approved the launch?" The answer is yes as shown by the the website link posted.


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2009 11:59 am
 20 April is the date I am hearing
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 03/11/2009 11:20 am
20 April is the date I am hearing

But, the first and the second stages of the launch vehicle will leave the factory soon. Is 20 April a realistic date?

Both of the stages have to arrive in Kwajalein together with the satellite. Integration of the s/c to l/v and fitchecks will take some time. Is there any contingency?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: wannamoonbase on 03/11/2009 11:27 am
20 April is the date I am hearing

But, the first and the second stages of the launch vehicle will leave the factory soon. Is 20 April a realistic date?

Both of the stages have to arrive in Kwajalein together with the satellite. Integration of the s/c to l/v and fitchecks will take some time. Is there any contingency?

It does sound tight, but they have gone through this a few times now so there should be some learning curve time out of the way.

Also, if they are serious about cost controls then you need to do things quick.  Manufacture, ship, assemble, fuel and fire.  More time than is minimally required is inefficient.

Wish them the best.  Hope Flight 5 is a 100% success.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/11/2009 11:36 am
But, the first and the second stages of the launch vehicle will leave the factory soon.

Where did you read this? HMXHMX said a couple of posts back that F1 was already shipped to Kwaj.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: HMXHMX on 03/11/2009 04:14 pm
But, the first and the second stages of the launch vehicle will leave the factory soon.

Where did you read this? HMXHMX said a couple of posts back that F1 was already shipped to Kwaj.

Just to be clear, I said that the SpaceX presenter (Max V.) said they had left.  Other than that I have no knowledge of my own.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: duane on 03/11/2009 07:46 pm
You're right though, probably not wanting OSHA to swoosh down on them (if they have not already) because of it.

My point was unless there is a legal action taken against spaceX for the fire there does not need to be a public disclosure. It is just between them and what ever local regulatory agency(s) they answer to. Besides the "agency(s)" only need to report the fire and any "unsafe" practices if it warrants legal action. That might not tell you much beyond there was a fire.

You should not fear OSHA, if you fear OSHA you are doing something you shouldn't be. OSHA is you and your coworker’s best friend.


Thanks! No relations to OSHA here. Just wondering had happened down there.

Duane
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 03/12/2009 06:17 am
But, the first and the second stages of the launch vehicle will leave the factory soon.

Where did you read this? HMXHMX said a couple of posts back that F1 was already shipped to Kwaj.

I did not read it!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/12/2009 10:00 am
Where did you read this? HMXHMX said a couple of posts back that F1 was already shipped to Kwaj.

I did not read it!

Do I need to reformulate my question then or does that imply you only assumed that bit?



RazakSAT launch on April 21:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/12/nation/20090312151304&sec=nation
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: subzero788 on 03/12/2009 10:59 am
It's strange that on the updated manifest the Falcon 9 debut is ahead of the Falcon 1 launch

http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php (http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/12/2009 01:16 pm
@ Subzero 788

This has been addressed before.  Basically, that list shows the date of arrival at the launch site.  The F9 demonstrator was delivered to the Cape, even though there isn't currently anything to launch it from, before the F1 for RazakSat even left the factory.

FWIW, I don't think that the F9 prototype at the Cape is even flight-worthy at the moment.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/12/2009 01:45 pm
"Science, Technology and Innovation Deputy Minister Fadilah Yusof said the satellite was scheduled to be flown via a Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) C130 aircraft from Subang to the Bucholz Army Airfield, Kwajalein on March 21"

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/12/nation/20090312151304&sec=nation

They are flying a satellite that ways less than a 1/2 ton half way around the world in a C130?  That's certainly not overkill.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 03/12/2009 01:55 pm
"Science, Technology and Innovation Deputy Minister Fadilah Yusof said the satellite was scheduled to be flown via a Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) C130 aircraft from Subang to the Bucholz Army Airfield, Kwajalein on March 21"

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/3/12/nation/20090312151304&sec=nation

They are flying a satellite that ways less than a 1/2 ton half way around the world in a C130?  That's certainly not overkill.

Maybe it's the only plane they have that can get there? I drive my Ranger to the store just to get a 6-pack....
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: MKremer on 03/12/2009 03:18 pm
They are flying a satellite that ways less than a 1/2 ton half way around the world in a C130?  That's certainly not overkill.

The sat may only weigh 1/2 ton, but it's in its environmental transport container. There's also the ground support and test equipment for final launch prep's and checkouts, lifting supports, stands, carts, etc., plus any support techs needed for the launch processing and tests.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/14/2009 12:44 pm
It's strange that on the updated manifest the Falcon 9 debut is ahead of the Falcon 1 launch

http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php (http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php)

Someone over there might be reading this since it's now fixed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/14/2009 02:28 pm
Someone over there might be reading this since it's now fixed.

Considering the culture  of the company, I have very little doubt that at least 50 of the 500+ people at that company lurk on these and other forums. 

I can only imagine what it is like to read a forum that has hundreds of speculative posts over the properties of the SpaceX products, while working on said products during my day job. 

Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Antares on 03/14/2009 05:48 pm
Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

Sorry, what objective evidence do you have for that statement?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/14/2009 07:06 pm
Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.
Sorry, what objective evidence do you have for that statement?

Objective evidence?  None unfortunately.  Implied? Custom memos distributed at Tesla to root out source of leaks.

If the full schematics for every component on the Model S made its way onto bittorent tomorrow there would be no legal issues for Tesla. On the other hand if the same happended with the the Merlin, or Falcon or Kestral I assume that ITAR would come down on SpaceX with both feet.

If not having your thunder stolen by a leaked photo of a car is worth writing many different versions of the same memo, I assume that saying out of court is worth a little bit more.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/15/2009 01:18 pm
Implied? Custom memos distributed at Tesla to root out source of leaks.

Meaning every memo is slightly different, be it as small as an extra space or puntuation mark I assume ;)

Smart process, I wonder if anyone makes a memo water mark generator for that ...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/15/2009 02:49 pm
Smart process, I wonder if anyone makes a memo water mark generator for that ...

If your memos at your work are distributed in .pdf form, look at the punctuation.  Most common trick is to see several different font commas in the same document.  If it is leaked HR can sit down and look at the the copy forwarded out and compare the punctuation fonts with their database.  VERY few people can tell the difference between an Ariel and New roman comma or question mark, but if you are looking for it you can tell the they don't match.

Companies do this all the time, I can't believe Elon Musk was involved in such a ham handed attempt to do something so common.  Maybe he should have hired a consultant.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: dragon44 on 03/17/2009 12:48 am
Quote
Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

I'm reading this on a SpaceX computer.
Lurker ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: rsnellenberger on 03/17/2009 01:48 am
Quote
Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

I'm reading this on a SpaceX computer.
Lurker ;)

Maybe so, dragon, but you're just a capsule prototype so you don't count as much  :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: MKremer on 03/17/2009 01:53 am
Someone over there might be reading this since it's now fixed.

Considering the culture  of the company, I have very little doubt that at least 50 of the 500+ people at that company lurk on these and other forums. 

I can only imagine what it is like to read a forum that has hundreds of speculative posts over the properties of the SpaceX products, while working on said products during my day job. 

Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

That's rather silly if you think about it. Why would they only read those sites at work? Elon has the ability to block his employees' home internet access to certain sites as well?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ChefPat on 03/17/2009 01:57 am
Quote
Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

I'm reading this on a SpaceX computer.
Lurker ;)

Welcome. I hope you stick around.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: mlorrey on 03/17/2009 02:56 pm
Quote
Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

I'm reading this on a SpaceX computer.
Lurker ;)

YAY.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: R.Simko on 03/17/2009 02:57 pm
I would think that SpaceX (Elon) actually encourages their employees to follow websites like this.  There is a lot of important info., that can be garnered from sites like this.  From ideas they may have not thought of, to forseeing problems they may run into and how they might correct or avert them.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/17/2009 09:49 pm
A short update on Falcon 1 flight 5 first stage shipment on the update page:

http://spacex.com/updates.php
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 03/17/2009 09:54 pm
Nice update - It clearly says as well that the launch is scheduled for April 20th.. Maybe someone should change the header on this forum topic to reflect that as opposed to "May, 2009"...

Nice to have a firm date to look forward to instead of a nebulous Range of dates..


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/18/2009 01:25 am
After months of looking at the Falcon 9 the Falcon 1 actually looks... small.  Is it just my imagination or does it look like the have put the thermal protection foam on the 1st stage again?  Hope they did, would LOVE to see the 1st stage get recovered.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Comga on 03/18/2009 02:41 am
...  Is it just my imagination or does it look like the have put the thermal protection foam on the 1st stage again?  Hope they did, would LOVE to see the 1st stage get recovered.

The upper section of the tanks does look less glossy, with perhaps a small step outward.  However, this is probably no different than the previous flights.  Here is a a photo  from the assembly of the third flight article. (http://www.spacex.com/F1-003.php)   It shows the same section wrapped in something slightly more yellow, but equally diffuse and also slightly projecting.

Why do you associate this with first stage recovery?  Insulation was installed after the first flight to cut down on LOX boiling, IIRC.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/18/2009 03:08 am
The upper section of the tanks does look less glossy, with perhaps a small step outward.  However, this is probably no different than the previous flights.  Here is a a photo  from the assembly of the third flight article. (http://www.spacex.com/F1-003.php)   It shows the same section wrapped in something slightly more yellow, but equally diffuse and also slightly projecting.

Why do you associate this with first stage recovery?  Insulation was installed after the first flight to cut down on LOX boiling, IIRC.

The did not put any thermal protection on flight 4.  This was part of getting it ready so quickly.  my assumption is that the step out that both you and I see is said thermal protection. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: mgreb on 03/18/2009 09:10 pm
If the Falcon 1 is retired for the Falcon 1e, it might not be worth it to attempt recovery.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: dragon44 on 03/18/2009 09:22 pm
If the Falcon 1 is retired for the Falcon 1e, it might not be worth it to attempt recovery.

My personal feeling (not official, I don't know for sure), is that even if the first stage isn't going to be reused, there is still some value in trying to get the whole recovery thing to work. Why waste the opportunity if you don't need the extra capacity for the sat? Just a guess. I don't know for sure that F1F5 has thermal protect. "That's not my department.."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/18/2009 09:25 pm
Why waste the opportunity if you don't need the extra capacity for the sat?

Exactly.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: HMXHMX on 03/18/2009 09:45 pm
The upper section of the tanks does look less glossy, with perhaps a small step outward.  However, this is probably no different than the previous flights.  Here is a a photo  from the assembly of the third flight article. (http://www.spacex.com/F1-003.php)   It shows the same section wrapped in something slightly more yellow, but equally diffuse and also slightly projecting.

Why do you associate this with first stage recovery?  Insulation was installed after the first flight to cut down on LOX boiling, IIRC.

The did not put any thermal protection on flight 4.  This was part of getting it ready so quickly.  my assumption is that the step out that both you and I see is said thermal protection. 

It is almost certainly only LOX tank insulation.  Otherwise it would extend to cover the interstage, fuel tank, engine compartment and protrusions.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 03/18/2009 10:00 pm
It is almost certainly only LOX tank insulation.  Otherwise it would extend to cover the interstage, fuel tank, engine compartment and protrusions.

I went back and took a look at some closeup photos of flight 4 LV on Kwaj and it appears to have this same stuff on, but it's very subtle and just changes the texture of the white paint a bit. Hardly noticeable.

Then again... looking at the flight 5 pic, it could be that the entire stage has this texture and it's just the decal with the glossy look...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: gospacex on 03/18/2009 11:07 pm
Quote
Question is, are this and other websites like it blocked on the SpaceX computers?  Considering Elon Musk's desire to reduce leaks it would make a lot of since.

I'm reading this on a SpaceX computer.
Lurker ;)


Go SpaceX!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Swatch on 03/19/2009 03:41 am
Yes... we're aware that's your name....  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Comga on 03/19/2009 04:12 am
The did not put any thermal protection on flight 4.  This was part of getting it ready so quickly.  My assumption is that the step out that both you and I see is said thermal protection. 

Do you really think they left off the insulation?  (Dragon44: Is that true?)  Has anyone found a photo of the fourth flight unit from which we could judge whether or not it was insulated?

It would actually be worrisome if they modified established procedures, like applying insulation to the tank, to get the rocket to the launch pad sooner.  That would be a bad case of "launch fever".

Again Nuaetius: Why do you associate this insulation with first stage recovery?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 03/20/2009 01:00 am
Do you really think they left off the insulation?  (Dragon44: Is that true?)  Has anyone found a photo of the fourth flight unit from which we could judge whether or not it was insulated?

It would actually be worrisome if they modified established procedures, like applying insulation to the tank, to get the rocket to the launch pad sooner.  That would be a bad case of "launch fever".

Again Nuaetius: Why do you associate this insulation with first stage recovery?

Ok, can't believe that I actually read that much stuff to respond to being called out on something :)

http://spaceflightnow.com/falcon/004/index.html

"Musk said engineers did not have enough time to add enough improvements to the first stage thermal protection system to ensure it would survive re-entry. "

In the photo from the last update it looked to me that the 1st stage was a little thicker and had a different texture than past launches.  I have no quotes stating that this was do to beefed up thermal protection, just guessing at this point.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jimvela on 03/20/2009 01:26 am
Do you really think they left off the insulation?  (Dragon44: Is that true?)  Has anyone found a photo of the fourth flight unit from which we could judge whether or not it was insulated?

It would actually be worrisome if they modified established procedures, like applying insulation to the tank, to get the rocket to the launch pad sooner.  That would be a bad case of "launch fever".

Again Nuaetius: Why do you associate this insulation with first stage recovery?

Ok, can't believe that I actually read that much stuff to respond to being called out on something :)

http://spaceflightnow.com/falcon/004/index.html

"Musk said engineers did not have enough time to add enough improvements to the first stage thermal protection system to ensure it would survive re-entry. "

In the photo from the last update it looked to me that the 1st stage was a little thicker and had a different texture than past launches.  I have no quotes stating that this was do to beefed up thermal protection, just guessing at this point.


You're going to have to read a little closer than that.  Musk is quoted as saying that between flight 3 and flight 4 there wasn't enough time to make any design changes to the existing themal protection to improve recovery chances.

That quote isn't saying that they didn't put any on, it's saying that they didn't make any changes in that regard from flight 3 to flight 4, and the thermal protection on both vehicles was therefore the same.

Most of us have tremendous doubts about recovery in the first place, but if the man has excess performance to burn then let him have at it.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Graham on 03/21/2009 10:30 am
Razaksat is on its way to the launch site:
http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=397905
Title: Falcon 1/RazakSat - 21 April 2009
Post by: William Graham on 03/23/2009 10:08 am
Spacecraft has arrived at Kwajalein:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/23/content_11058929.htm
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 03/23/2009 12:45 pm
http://www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/story.cgi?number=1133575125
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: lewis886 on 03/30/2009 05:20 pm
Just got this in my email.....



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

SPACEX TO LAUNCH ATSB'S RAZAKSAT

Hawthorne, CA (March 30, 2009) – Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) announces that the launch window for ATSB's RazakSAT on Falcon 1 Flight 5, is currently scheduled to open Monday, April 20th at 4:00 p.m. (PDT) / 7:00 p.m. (EDT).

SpaceX's Falcon 1 launch site is located approximately 2500 miles southwest of Hawaii on Omelek Island, part of the Reagan Test Site (RTS) at United States Army Kwajalein Atoll (USAKA) in the Central Pacific. Due to the location of the launch site, the Kwajalein local date at the opening of the launch window will be April 21st.

RazakSAT was designed and built by Astronautic Technology (M) Sdn Bhd (ATSB), a pioneer and leader in the design and manufacture of satellites in Malaysia. The satellite will be launched aboard the Falcon 1, a two-stage, liquid oxygen/rocket-grade kerosene vehicle, designed from the ground up by SpaceX.

Falcon 1 will place RazakSAT, equipped with a high resolution Medium-Sized Aperture Camera (MAC), into a near equatorial orbit. The payload is expected to provide high resolution images of Malaysia that can be applied to land management, resource development and conservation, forestry and fish migration.

SpaceX will provide live coverage of the Falcon 1 Flight 5/RazakSAT mission via webcast at: www.SpaceX.com. The webcast will begin 20 minutes prior to launch and will include mission briefings, live feeds and launch coverage from the launch site. Post-launch, video footage and photos will be available for download on the Web site.

About SpaceX

SpaceX is revolutionizing access to space by developing a family of launch vehicles and spacecraft intended to increase the reliability and reduce the cost of both manned and unmanned space transportation, ultimately by a factor of ten. With its Falcon line of launch vehicles, powered by internally-developed Merlin engines, SpaceX offers light, medium and heavy lift capabilities to deliver spacecraft into any altitude and inclination, from low-Earth to geosynchronous orbit to planetary missions. On September 28, 2008, Falcon 1, designed and manufactured from the ground up by SpaceX, became the first privately developed liquid fuel rocket to orbit the Earth, demonstrating that low cost and reliability can be coupled in commercial spaceflight.

As a winner of the NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services competition (COTS), SpaceX is in a position to help fill the gap in American spaceflight to the International Space Station (ISS) when the Space Shuttle retires in 2010. Under the existing Agreement, SpaceX will conduct three flights of its Falcon 9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft for NASA, culminating in Dragon berthing with the ISS. SpaceX is the only COTS contender with the capability to return cargo and crew to Earth. NASA also has an option to demonstrate crew services to the ISS using the Falcon 9 / Dragon system.

In addition, NASA recently selected the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft for the ISS Cargo Resupply Services (CRS) contract award. The contract includes 12 flights between 2010 and 2015 and represents a guaranteed minimum of 20,000 kg to be carried to the ISS.

Founded in 2002, the SpaceX team now numbers more than 620 full time employees, located primarily in Hawthorne, California, with additional locations, including SpaceX's Texas Test Facility in McGregor near Waco; offices in Washington DC; and launch facilities at Cape Canaveral, Florida, and the Marshall Islands in the Central Pacific.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 03/30/2009 05:39 pm
Right on!!  got my calendar booked... looking forward to this one..
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 03/30/2009 06:05 pm
This and the first Falcon 9 launch seem pretty crucial. Getting a live payload to orbit at last, and getting the big rocket to fly.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: lewis886 on 03/30/2009 06:17 pm
agreed.... failing on one or both of these would be a pretty serious setback... 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: bad_astra on 03/30/2009 06:22 pm
Yep just got the email on that. Best of luck to them.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/30/2009 09:26 pm
Remember this is a launch update thread, so "opinion" on SpaceX need to go into the other thread (the Elon Musk updates status thread).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 03/31/2009 02:49 pm
Will there be a live coverage during launch?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 03/31/2009 02:53 pm
Will there be a live coverage during launch?

Yes - As per their news release they will have a live webcast from the spaceX website
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 04/01/2009 07:55 am
Will there be a live coverage during launch?

Yes; http://www.space-travel.com/reports/ATSB_RazakSAT_Takes_Punt_With_Test_Rocket_999.html

SpaceX will provide live coverage of the Falcon 1 Flight 5/RazakSAT mission via webcast. The webcast will begin 20 minutes prior to launch and will include mission briefings, live feeds and launch coverage from the launch site. Post-launch, video footage and photos will be available for download on the Web site.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: pippin on 04/01/2009 12:07 pm
Remember this is a launch update thread, so "opinion" on SpaceX need to go into the other thread (the Elon Musk updates status thread).
Could you update the thread title to reflect the official launch date?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NTE April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: butters on 04/02/2009 12:29 am
About the first stage recovery issue, my understanding is that flight 5 will have the same TPS as flight 4.  I guess that the beefed up TPS will debut on Falcon 9 and 1e.

It makes sense that, in the scheme of things, reusability would be near the bottom of the priority list, but before the 60-minute launch prep sequence.  First make it reliable.  Then make it recoverable.

I'm fairly bullish on SpaceX.  I tend to believe that Dragon will dock with the ISS before Ares I reaches LEO.  However, I'm skeptical that the Falcon 9 second stage will ever be reusable as Elon Musk has suggested.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Chandonn on 04/02/2009 03:10 am
Remember this is a launch update thread, so "opinion" on SpaceX need to go into the other thread (the Elon Musk updates status thread).
Could you update the thread title to reflect the official launch date?

I hate to be anal about the thread title, but what is a "NTE" ;)  (I know, not much sleep over the past few weeks, what with STS-119, TMA-15, and STS-125 rollout...)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/02/2009 10:01 am
I hate to be anal about the thread title, but what is a "NTE" ;) 

I'm make a shot in the dark: That was typed when half-asleep.  It should be NET: Not Earlier Than
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: pippin on 04/02/2009 10:31 am
I hate to be anal about the thread title, but what is a "NTE" ;) 

I'm make a shot in the dark: That was typed when half-asleep.  It should be NET: Not Earlier Than
As long as it doesn't mean "Not That Early"...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - May, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: aquarius on 04/02/2009 06:35 pm
Remember this is a launch update thread, so "opinion" on SpaceX need to go into the other thread (the Elon Musk updates status thread).
Could you update the thread title to reflect the official launch date?

I hate to be anal about the thread title, but what is a "NTE" ;)  (I know, not much sleep over the past few weeks, what with STS-119, TMA-15, and STS-125 rollout...)

I guess, you meant TMA-14...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/08/2009 02:06 pm
Now that they're within 2 weeks of the launch window opening and scheduled launch date, you'd think we'd have some more information on the launch. By now both stages should be undergoing checkouts at Omelek.

I wonder if Jeff Foust's tidbit about possible launch slip to end of month is in the works.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Spacenuts on 04/13/2009 11:08 pm
.. crickets,,, crickets,,,
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/13/2009 11:45 pm
.. crickets,,, crickets,,,
I must have missed the press release saying Spacex will be launching crickets as part of a secondary payload to check out a down sized life support system in prelude of the upcoming Falcon 9 launches involving the Dragon Capsule.... I certainly do wish people include the link when posting such info :)

sigh...I hope they start releasing updates soon on both the next F1 and F9 launches..it seems to make the launch date come faster...
cheers
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/14/2009 01:53 am

sigh...I hope they start releasing updates soon on both the next F1 and F9 launches..it seems to make the launch date come faster...
cheers
jb

It would be even more fun to wake up one morning and find out both the Falcon 1 and 9 have already flown :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kkattula on 04/14/2009 03:25 am
It would be even more fun to wake up one morning and find out both the Falcon 1 and 9 have already flown :D

Hell no!  The launch webcasts are great entertainment.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/14/2009 11:16 am
*crickets* is right. They ought to be performing the Flight Readiness Review right about this time and the payload, fairing and the stages should all have been mated together if their target date is the opening of the launch window. An image or two wouldn't hurt.

Yes, I know, patience is a virtue.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/14/2009 06:01 pm
an update is here... (http://www.spacex.com/updates.php)
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/14/2009 07:10 pm

Wow, I was expecting a byline at the bottom of the update that said:  "updated because of all the demands for an update from the NSF forum." ;)

Nice update, things look good.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: lbiderman on 04/14/2009 07:22 pm
They seem to be on time for April 20 launch, no signs of slip.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/14/2009 08:37 pm
They seem to be on time for April 20 launch, no signs of slip.

I'm surprised they don't have a photo of the vehicle on the pad at Omelek.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/14/2009 08:49 pm
I'm surprised they don't have a photo of the vehicle on the pad at Omelek.
I'm sure that is the next update...which should be coming up in the day(s) ahead I hope. :)
I do hope they start a new update page though..is it only me or does the update page seem to take too long to load with all the info on that page...not that I'm complaining...
lets hope for  a split F1 and F9 update page :)
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 04/14/2009 10:50 pm
I'm sure that is the next update...which should be coming up in the day(s) ahead I hope. :)
I do hope they start a new update page though..is it only me or does the update page seem to take too long to load with all the info on that page...not that I'm complaining...
lets hope for  a split F1 and F9 update page :)
jb

Considering the imitate end of the Falcon 1 program, and startup of Falcon 1e program, there is not going to be much Falcon 1e news for a year.  A Falon 1e update page would get maybe 3 updates before they are processing the 1e for the test flight. 

Just starting a new Update page would be enough for me.  The reason it is taking so long to load is all those F9 on the Pad photos, and the fact that they have started uploading higher quality photos into the update.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: zaitcev on 04/15/2009 02:33 am
I'm surprised they don't have a photo of the vehicle on the pad at Omelek.
I don't think they published a picture of F1 in the tent ever. I was always curious how they cart it over to the pad that's notably offset from the centerline of the tent. Maybe there's something they don't want to show. Once the rocket is on the pad, we may get a picture, included the dreaded pink plastic skirt.
-- Pete
{Edit: see links from ugordan a few messages down http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16054.msg391316#msg391316 }
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Comga on 04/15/2009 05:56 am
an update is here... (http://www.spacex.com/updates.php)
jb

There appears to be a port in the interstage that has not previously been so prominent.  (See photo)  Is that just an access port?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: dunderwood on 04/15/2009 06:28 am
It looks like it's just above the line separating the 2nd stage from the interstage.  Umbilical/propellant hookups perhaps?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: MKremer on 04/15/2009 08:27 am
There appears to be a port in the interstage that has not previously been so prominent.  (See photo)  Is that just an access port?

It's an access opening.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/15/2009 08:43 am
I'm surprised they don't have a photo of the vehicle on the pad at Omelek.

They don't have a photo of the vehicle at the pad because it's not scheduled to be on the pad yet. That's coming up at L-5 days.

Also, there are photos of the hangar/tent, although not official ones. CorrodedNut posted links to a few galleries a while ago here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=9958.msg341963#msg341963
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/16/2009 05:23 pm
I'm surprised Elon's Brother hasn't mentioned anything about the launch on his Kwajrockets Blog (http://kwajrockets.blogspot.com/).  He usually posts things as well..  Lets hope things go well for the preparation and we hear news soon.
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/16/2009 07:29 pm
SpaceX has had a pattern of making big announcements just before also revealing negative news.  Given the new announcement of two F9 launches for Argentina, stand by for the F1 launch slip announcement.  I may be wrong, but I'm going on record here with my prediction.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/16/2009 07:39 pm
SpaceX has had a pattern of making big announcements just before also revealing negative news.  Given the new announcement of two F9 launches for Argentina, stand by for the F1 launch slip announcement.

That wouldn't be negative news. Slips happen all the time.

Launch FAILURE would be negative news.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/16/2009 08:58 pm
SpaceX has had a pattern of making big announcements just before also revealing negative news.  Given the new announcement of two F9 launches for Argentina, stand by for the F1 launch slip announcement.

That wouldn't be negative news. Slips happen all the time.

Launch FAILURE would be negative news.

Launch failure would be CATASTROPHIC news for SpaceX.  Slips do happen all the time, but that doesn't make them positive or even neutral - unless it is from uncontrollable factors (i.e. weather, spacecraft, etc.).  If, after many months of delay and four prior launches, the rocket is not ready, I see that as negative news. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 04/16/2009 09:01 pm
Well since we are all predicting things let me be the first to predict an on time launch on the 20th (within the given window) and a perfect flight to orbit. If I am wrong then so be it... If I am right then remember - you heard it from me first!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/16/2009 09:05 pm
Well since we are all predicting things let me be the first to predict an on time launch on the 20th (within the given window) and a perfect flight to orbit. If I am wrong then so be it... If I am right then remember - you heard it from me first!

I'll take that bet! (Bragging rights on the table)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/17/2009 08:31 am
Lo and behold: http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Frontpage/20090417161214/Article/index_html

"The launch of the RazakSAT, Malaysia's second remote sensing satellite has been postponed until further notice due to "technical problems"."

"Abdul Hanan said SpaceX will be doing the repairs which will take at least six weeks."

Looks like someone just lost a bet...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 04/17/2009 11:07 am
Lo and behold: http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Frontpage/20090417161214/Article/index_html

"The launch of the RazakSAT, Malaysia's second remote sensing satellite has been postponed until further notice due to "technical problems"."

"Abdul Hanan said SpaceX will be doing the repairs which will take at least six weeks."

Looks like someone just lost a bet...

which is why I am not a millionaire in the local lottery.... at least my record is still 100% ... lol
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/17/2009 11:09 am
"The launch of the RazakSAT, Malaysia's second remote sensing satellite has been postponed until further notice due to "technical problems"."

Does anyone know what broke? Was it the F1 or the payload? Could it even be problems with the launch infrastructure on the atoll?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/17/2009 11:13 am
Yeah, but six weeks? Did they crush a stage or damage an engine or something?

This is one update from Elon I particularly look forward to. I have a stinking feeling it might be an embarrassing one at that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/17/2009 11:19 am
Does anyone know what broke? Was it the F1 or the payload? Could it even be problems with the launch infrastructure on the atoll?
as per the article
Quote
Due for lift-off on April 21, Science, Technology and Innovation Ministry secretary-general Datuk Abdul Hanan Alang Endut said the delay was because of problems with the launching vehicle.
will be interesting to hear what the problem is, 6 weeks seems a while to fix a "simple" problem..lets hope for a quicker fix..I'm itching for a successful launch ..sooner the better.. yeah I'm greedy but I need a Spacex launch fix :)

jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/17/2009 11:26 am
6 weeks seems a while to fix a "simple" problem..lets hope for a quicker fix..

Read the release, people. It said at least 6 weeks.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Spacenuts on 04/17/2009 12:33 pm
Of course we are reading a news release.  Lets look at the reliability.  It might be completely accurate or it might not.  SpaceX talks to someone, possibly Hanan.  If it is direct to Hanan then from Hanan to the news agency and then to the public.  I personally wouldn't place too much on any given word in the release.  Too many monkeys in the chain of information to be reliable.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Analyst on 04/17/2009 12:38 pm
You are in principle correct. But keep this also in mind then there is some - at the first look - positive news about SpaceX in the future. Too many monkeys in the chain of information to be reliable also then.

Analyst
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/17/2009 12:54 pm
Of course we are reading a news release.  Lets look at the reliability.  It might be completely accurate or it might not.

I've seen previous news concerning this launch first broken by news portals such as this one and they turned out to be reliable so far. I don't personally have reasons to doubt the reliability of this one, but we shall see.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Spacenuts on 04/17/2009 01:43 pm
Both reasonable points.  Just bring up the point that when trying to get as much information out of a release as possible it is probably not useful to take the phrases "at least six weeks", "six weeks" or "up to six weeks" and make a call on it. There will be a delay? Sure, I'll definitely buy into that.  The delay will be longer than six weeks? Sure,  very possible.  Just sayin' it is all as good as guesses at this point.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Lee Jay on 04/17/2009 01:52 pm
will be interesting to hear what the problem is, 6 weeks seems a while to fix a "simple" problem..

Remember the 2 months stand down for the ECO sensor connector on the Shuttle ET?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Analyst on 04/17/2009 02:01 pm
Remember the 2 months stand down for the ECO sensor connector on the Shuttle ET?

1) They should have flown. But NASA is extremely risk averse these days.
2) Shuttle is a little bit more complex than Falcon 1.
3) SpaceX did promise to do things better. Big time. This is the measure they choose themselves.

Analyst
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: docmordrid on 04/17/2009 02:44 pm
There's the possibility that in unpacking the air shipping container they found damage to the second stage.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/17/2009 07:38 pm
Lo and behold: http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/Frontpage/20090417161214/Article/index_html

"The launch of the RazakSAT, Malaysia's second remote sensing satellite has been postponed until further notice due to "technical problems"."

"Abdul Hanan said SpaceX will be doing the repairs which will take at least six weeks."

Looks like someone just lost a bet...

Thanks, Ugordon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/17/2009 08:01 pm
1) They should have flown. But NASA is extremely risk averse these days.

The correct answer is when they first saw the issue with the ECO sensors they should have gotten to the bottom of it and not tried to live with it as long as they did. Same behavior as with the O-Ring issues prior to Challenger, or foam loss prior to Columbia. Living with the symptoms instead standing down and finding the cause and not flying until corrected.
 
Remember the real issue was cryo pumping inside the LH cable header and not the actual sensors. You just can not take random guesses at this stuff. If it had been solved in the 80's when it first came up we would not even be talking about it.

I hope spaceX when they see an issue gets to the bottom of it instead of trying to live with it. We mere mortals do not have insight, but they do seem to have delayed a few times to get to the bottom of issues. Maybe someone with insight to all launcher issues knows how spaceX handles things ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/17/2009 10:04 pm
Six weeks plus is a long repair time estimate.  Either the Malaysian government is giving a worst-case estimate to save face or something pretty fundamental has gone wrong.

The only things I can think of that would require something like this are:

1) Engine integration - They have to pull an engine and some of the fuel system out of the booster.  Putting all those pipes back in and testing it is going to be a pain;

2) Avionics integration - They are going to have to pull the IAU out of the F1US, fix some stuff and then wire it back in.

Hmmm... Come to think of it, how long would it take to prep a replacement booster stage at the factory and ship it to the atoll?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/17/2009 10:38 pm
Hmmm... Come to think of it, how long would it take to prep a replacement booster stage at the factory and ship it to the atoll?
good point..but looking at the manifest (http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php), there doesn't seem to have any F1 on the manifest..only 1e..and it looks like it is late 2010... so they may not have the option to switch...
looking forward to an official update...
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: A_M_Swallow on 04/17/2009 11:03 pm
Six weeks plus is a long repair time estimate.  Either the Malaysian government is giving a worst-case estimate to save face or something pretty fundamental has gone wrong.

Or the replacement part is being shipped by boat.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/18/2009 12:18 am
Or the replacement part is being shipped by boat.
if that is the case it must be a BIG part or I'd figure they would fly the part out...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: MKremer on 04/18/2009 12:22 am
Or the replacement part is being shipped by boat.
if that is the case it must be a BIG part or I'd figure they would fly the part out...

Unless the part is still being manufactured (as part of an upcoming launch), and still needs to finish final processing and testing before it can ship.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: tobi453 on 04/18/2009 09:44 am
Quote
However, Space Exploration Technology (Space X), the company set to launch the satellite, detected vibration at unsafe level on the launch vehicle, said Science, Technology and Innovation Ministry secretary-general Datuk Abdul Hanan Alang Endut in a statement. He said work to fix the problem would take about six weeks to be completed.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/4/18/nation/3723070&sec=nation
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: madscientist197 on 04/18/2009 10:40 am
Minimally informative article. Vibrations? Surely this isn't something new?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: tonthomas on 04/18/2009 10:55 am
Defective part or construction problem?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Spacenuts on 04/18/2009 01:21 pm
Which would be the most likely, difficulty with a part or the acoustical environment for the payload in general? If the it is the environment for the payload would it be due to ground effects and would you fix the environment inside or on the ground? 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/18/2009 01:38 pm
What integration & checkout procedure would unearth a vibration problem? Could it be a problem with rate gyros?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: pm1823 on 04/18/2009 01:41 pm
Wonder, what can "vibrate at unsafe level" for satellite in LV - before the launch? Do they shake Falcon and listen "rattle-bladder" sounds? :) 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: tobi453 on 04/18/2009 01:52 pm
Maybe they did a static fire test?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: pm1823 on 04/18/2009 02:41 pm
Maybe, but they always report about "static fire test" in Updates. It's kinda "milestone".
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: edkyle99 on 04/18/2009 05:10 pm
Wonder, what can "vibrate at unsafe level" for satellite in LV - before the launch? Do they shake Falcon and listen "rattle-bladder" sounds? :) 

A couple of possibilities related to "vibration". 

One, they may have monitored vibration with accelerometers during shipping.  If some maximum level, probably from a shock, was recorded, they may have to perform some type of extensive inspection or re-qualification protocol on whatever part (stage, engine, fairing, etc.) was involved.

Two, something may have cropped up during a propellant loading test.  I once heard a Centaur stage *scream* when something "vibrated" during a pressurization test.  Techs had to wear ear protection during subsequent troubleshooting tests.   

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: [email protected] on 04/18/2009 05:29 pm
There is one other possible explanation, and it isn't technical, but political.

Suppose the SATELLITE has a problem, and it would be embarassing for the Malaysian gov't (or the cronies therein) to acknowledge that they missed an important design / assembly flaw.

What better way for a politician to CYA than to declare that the launcher isn't ready?

SpaceX needs the contract, and can notify others through back-channels what the "real" deal is.

The politicians need to protect their phony-baloney jobs. 

Launch occurs, hopefully a complete success (at least for SpaceX), and everybody is happy -- and the Malaysian people are none the wiser.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 04/18/2009 05:40 pm
Are rocket stage tanks purged with dry nitrogen (or some equivalent) prior to fueling? I can't imagine you'd want any condensation, especially in the LOX tank. Or leak checked with freon (or modern equivalent), for that matter? Forgive me for being such an old timer. I switched from big, dangerous machinery to safe (warm, indoor) computers 25 years ago. Anyway, that'd be a couple of ways you might start an unexpected vibration in a fuel line or something.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 04/18/2009 09:49 pm
There is one other possible explanation, and it isn't technical, but political.

Suppose the SATELLITE has a problem, and it would be embarassing for the Malaysian gov't (or the cronies therein) to acknowledge that they missed an important design / assembly flaw.

What better way for a politician to CYA than to declare that the launcher isn't ready?

SpaceX needs the contract, and can notify others through back-channels what the "real" deal is.


the back channel idea isn't valid.  Spacex would need to make a public statement
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nomadd on 04/19/2009 06:48 pm
 Maybe a chance they didn't have F1 specs in hand when they designed the satellite, and were late in realizing the normal max vibration of the launcher was higher than the sat was rated for? It seems unlikely Spacex wouldn't pick that up when they accepted the contract, but it wouldn't be the first dumb mistake in the business.
 
 I wonder if they do like I do when evaluating dish mounts and tie wrap an Iphone with the vibration app to the structure. The thing is remarkably accurate measuring 3 axis frequency and amplitude. Even e-mails you the results so you don't have to climb up to see them.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: G-pit on 04/20/2009 02:36 am
Since the NET date is tomorrow, could someone comment on whether or not the rumors of a delay have been reliably confirmed? Thanks.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: carlosn on 04/20/2009 02:45 am
Re: Vibration Issue
It is not uncommon for  some eager engineer to do one last analysis and find out that something is wrong days before a launch.  In this case I would speculate that someone figured out the vibration levels at some component on the s/c were probably unsafe.

Re: Satellite Issue
Again, not uncommon for satellite provider and launch provider to play launch chicken in trying to place the blame for the delay on the other party - even though in all likelihood both parties might have had delays of their own.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 04/20/2009 02:46 am
Maybe a chance they didn't have F1 specs in hand when they designed the satellite,

no chance, they have been available for years
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Patchouli on 04/20/2009 03:24 am
A new rocket and a new sat from someone new to manufacturing satellites and a remote sensing satellite at that.

Making optics able to survive launch vibrations is not a trivial task so a delay is to be expected.

F1 is one of the few small LVs that can place a payload in NEqO due to it's launch site in Omelek.
Pegasus is the only other small LV I know of that can reach near equilateral orbit but the vibration environment on it is probably worse then F1.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: braddock on 04/20/2009 05:46 am
SpaceX has apparently released a PR (not yet on web site nor sent to the usual mailing lists).

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0904/19falcon1/
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/SpaceX_Delays_Falcon_1_Razaksat_Launch_999.html

"While both the Falcon 1 vehicle and satellite passed all preliminary checkouts and are cleared for launch, a concern has been identified regarding the potential impact of predicted vehicle environments on the satellite."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Graham on 04/20/2009 08:01 am
Maybe a chance they didn't have F1 specs in hand when they designed the satellite,

no chance, they have been available for years

IIRC, this was originally intended for launch on the Merlin-1A powered F1. The 1C version could have a slightly different profile.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/20/2009 09:13 am
<speculation>

The Merlin-engine-induced difference is an interesting possibility. The higher thrust on Merlin 1c would imply a more stressful max-Q acoustic environment than the original Merlin 1a would produce. If this is the case I wonder where the requirement change was lost and who is to blame. So far we have two news reports pointing the finger at SpaceX and coming from the customer.

If it's a max-Q thing I can imagine two possible fixes:
1) downrate the Merlin 1c
2) beef up acoustic blankets in the fairing

Option #2 seems more reasonable to me, easier to implement and less dangerous from a systems engineering standpoint than further downrating the Merlin from nominal thrust levels. Certainly looks more favorable than lowering the performance of the booster.

One also wonders if the 6+ week figure is the actual amount of time required or if it's primarily driven by range availability.

</speculation>
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 04/20/2009 11:05 am
The higher thrust on Merlin 1c would imply a more stressful max-Q acoustic environment than the original Merlin 1a would produce

That shouldn't be that big of difference and it just would be max-q.  Max-q environment is more vibration than acoustical.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/20/2009 12:45 pm

F1 is one of the few small LVs that can place a payload in NEqO due to it's launch site in Omelek.
Pegasus is the only other small LV I know of that can reach near equilateral orbit but the vibration environment on it is probably worse then F1.

Now retired Scout from the San Marco platform east of Kenya.

Is Vega going to fly from San Marco?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Skyrocket on 04/20/2009 01:07 pm
Is Vega going to fly from San Marco?

No
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kch on 04/20/2009 01:09 pm
Is Vega going to fly from San Marco?

No

ELA-1 at Kourou.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Spacenuts on 04/20/2009 02:06 pm
Can anyone with experience in this specific problem answer a quick question?  Couldn't it be as simple as the Razaksat being built too close to the margin for vibration or acoustics while at the same time the Falcon 1 in its current configuration also comes close to being maxed out?  Then during final checks someone spoke up and said "Hey! Shouldn't we have more margin for error here?"  Given how close this is to launch after such a long time a few weeks seems a small price to pay to eliminate a tight squeeze.  Since the launcher can be modified with greater ease it gets the attention.  SpaceX wants a flawless event so it would be to everyones benefit.  The press releases all seem to follow that pattern.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Analyst on 04/20/2009 02:16 pm
We don't know anything other than the customer says it is a launch vehicle issue and yet folks try to find explanations why it is not SpaceX's fault, why it is excuseable ... nada nada nada. Why? Other missions have delays too. SpaceX has the problem they promised much more than they deliver. EELVs did the same, but not this extreme.

Analyst
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/20/2009 02:18 pm
official update is here. (http://spacex.com/press.php?page=20090420)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 04/20/2009 02:28 pm
1.  while at the same time the Falcon 1 in its current configuration also comes close to being maxed out? 

2.  Then during final checks someone spoke up and said "Hey! Shouldn't we have more margin for error here?"  G

1.  There isn't a "maxed out" wrt LV environments.  They are what they are.  The only thing spacex can do is either better define the environments *(more flights with instrumentation) or have attenuation hardware either on the adapter or more acoustic blankets on the fairing. 

* At this point in the development, spacex should have large margins because of limited flight data set. 

2.  "final checks" would be just analysis.

Another possibility is that the coupled loads analysis found that the spacecraft and LV have natural frequencies too close to each other
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/20/2009 02:54 pm
We don't know anything other than the customer says it is a launch vehicle issue and yet folks try to find explanations why it is not SpaceX's fault, why it is excuseable ... nada nada nada. Why? Other missions have delays too. SpaceX has the problem they promised much more than they deliver. EELVs did the same, but not this extreme.

There are a couple of apologetic posts and the other majority in my view seem to be concentrated on something being SpaceX' own issue. Why do you (and this is the second time I've seen you do this) pick on the apologetic few and neglect the majority of other posts?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kkattula on 04/20/2009 03:20 pm
From the SpaceX update:

"While both the Falcon 1 vehicle and satellite passed all preliminary checkouts and are cleared for launch, a concern has been identified regarding the potential impact of predicted vehicle environments on the satellite. Based on these concerns, the SpaceX team is evaluating options to minimize this impact and ensure mission success."

Given the previous mention of "vibration", natural frequency coupling sounds likely to me.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stexer on 04/20/2009 03:22 pm
1.  while at the same time the Falcon 1 in its current configuration also comes close to being maxed out? 

2.  Then during final checks someone spoke up and said "Hey! Shouldn't we have more margin for error here?"  G

1.  There isn't a "maxed out" wrt LV environments.  They are what they are.  The only thing spacex can do is either better define the environments *(more flights with instrumentation) or have attenuation hardware either on the adapter or more acoustic blankets on the fairing. 

* At this point in the development, spacex should have large margins because of limited flight data set. 

2.  "final checks" would be just analysis.

Another possibility is that the coupled loads analysis found that the spacecraft and LV have natural frequencies too close to each other

Official release is pretty vague. I'll put my bet on natural frequencies being the cause. Seems like they are just being extra cautious with this one, smart move.  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 04/20/2009 03:27 pm
yea its amazing... when they have an on pad abort but push to launch in the same window instead of standing down for weeks and months to fix the perceived problem - they get roundly criticized.

Now they discover a potential problem and actually do stand down for several weeks to fix the problem - and they get criticized...


they can't win no matter what they do...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: R.Simko on 04/20/2009 03:40 pm
Can anyone answer these questions.

1.  How does Falcon 1 compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues? 

2.  How does/or will Falcon 1E compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues?

3.  How does/or will Falcon 9 compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues?

Thanks for any info you can give.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: cuddihy on 04/20/2009 03:44 pm
They can't win with the amazing peoples or the haters...but you know, no one ever does. amazing peoples will be amazing peoples and hatehs will be hatehs.

SpaceX appears to be largely done with *intentional* overpromising, based on some recent indications of growing maturity, like taking the launch months off of their launch schedule.

It's definitely a good sign that they made the decision to postpone rather than attempt a bad launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 04/20/2009 04:04 pm
Can anyone answer these questions.

1.  How does Falcon 1 compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues? 

2.  How does/or will Falcon 1E compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues?

3.  How does/or will Falcon 9 compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues?


what do you mean "compare"?  There is no real figure of merit.  All ELVs have dynamic environments and they are some what similar.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kkattula on 04/20/2009 04:12 pm
Can anyone answer these questions.

1.  How does Falcon 1 compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues? 

2.  How does/or will Falcon 1E compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues?

3.  How does/or will Falcon 9 compare to other launchers on the market in relation to vibration issues?


what do you mean "compare"?  There is no real figure of merit.  All ELVs have dynamic environments and they are some what similar.

Except for Ares I  (ok, only a partial ELV ... probably)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Antares on 04/20/2009 04:18 pm
Can anyone answer these questions.

Sigh.  Payload planners guides.

Falcon 1 http://www.spacex.com/Falcon1UsersGuide.pdf See pp.24-29

Falcon 9 http://www.spacex.com/Falcon9UsersGuide_2009.pdf  See pp.33-36
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 04/20/2009 04:25 pm
Short of finding tobacco-company-class internal documents to the effect, I don't know how you'd go about distinguishing "intentional overpromising" from simple overconfidence. Sooner or later, SpaceX has to show they can get payloads off successfully, on time. But for right now, learning important lessons before the rocket leaves the ground, and learning them on the little rocket instead of the big one, is probably a good thing. To quote Emerson: "These are occasions a good learner would not miss."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nomadd on 04/20/2009 04:30 pm
Can anyone answer these questions.

Sigh.  Payload planners guides.

Falcon 1 http://www.spacex.com/Falcon1UsersGuide.pdf See pp.24-29

Falcon 9 http://www.spacex.com/Falcon9UsersGuide_2009.pdf  See pp.33-36

 It looks like all the vibration charts are for max payload, so a light payload like this would require custom figures from Spacex.
 I wonder if these figures might have changed from earlier guides due to data from the F1 launches.
 Something like passing vibration and g loads but forgetting to figure the two together wouldn't be any more shocking that forgetting the doppler shift on, oh... say a Mothership/Titan lander link.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: SIM city on 04/20/2009 04:33 pm
 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact:
Emily Shanklin | Director, Marketing and Communications
[email protected]
310.363.6733
RAZAKSAT LAUNCH POSTPONED
________________________________________
Hawthorne, CA (April 20, 2009) – Due to a potential compatibility issue between the RazakSAT spacecraft and Falcon 1 launch vehicle, Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) and Astronautic Technology (M) Sdn Bhd (ATSB) have agreed to postpone the launch of ATSB's RazakSAT satellite.
While both the Falcon 1 vehicle and satellite passed all preliminary checkouts and are cleared for launch, a concern has been identified regarding the potential impact of predicted vehicle environments on the satellite. Based on these concerns, the SpaceX team is evaluating options to minimize this impact and ensure mission success.
"SpaceX is committed to the safety and success of our customer's payloads," said Elon Musk, CEO and CTO of SpaceX. "Our engineers are addressing this issue and we look forward to launching RazakSAT once the issue is fully understood and resolved."
"Both teams are confident the issue will be resolved," said Dr. Ahmad Sabirin, CEO of ATSB. "We are all looking forward to a successful launch."
Updates and information regarding a new launch date will be available on www.SpaceX.com.

 

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: bad_astra on 04/21/2009 01:36 pm
they can't win no matter what they do...

Sure they can. They can succeed. Opinions on an internet forum + $0.50 won't buy you coffee.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 04/22/2009 01:42 am
From the Hyperbola blog (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/04/spacex-no-rocket-damage-link-t.html), Rob got a reply back from Spacex from an inquiry about the launch issue.  Check the blog entry..don't want him to lose any traffic to his site since he did the digging :)
Looks like they did do a successful static fire test.
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 04/22/2009 04:32 am
Looks like they did do a successful static fire test.

Static fires seem to be filler for me, with a well oiled launch flow it would not be needed (look at ULA, Sealaunch, everyone else)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kkattula on 04/22/2009 04:48 am
Looks like they did do a successful static fire test.

Static fires seem to be filler for me, with a well oiled launch flow it would not be needed (look at ULA, Sealaunch, everyone else)

If you've got a robust engine capable of multiple firings, automated fueling and pad operations, and plenty of time on the pad, why wouldn't you conduct a static test fire before launching a multi-million dollar rocket?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: osiossim on 04/22/2009 07:37 am
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Launches042109.xml&headline=Sea%20Launch%20Flies;%20SpaceX%20Does%20Not&channel=space

Sea Launch Flies; SpaceX Does Not
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: butters on 04/22/2009 08:46 am
It seems more likely that they learned something new about the vibration tolerance of the payload than about the launch vehicle environment, right?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/22/2009 09:02 am
It seems more likely that they learned something new about the vibration tolerance of the payload than about the launch vehicle environment, right?

"a potential compatibility issue" is precisely that. It doesn't really matter at this point whether it's F1 exceeding predicted limits or the satellite being too sensitive or both, it needs to be fixed and the way to fix it is at the vehicle-satellite interface. Whether it'll be acoustic blankets or payload adapter modifications, the fix will be done on the vehicle, not the satellite. It's a good thing the satellite isn't maxed out to F1 payload capacity so there's a good deal of mass margin left.

As they say, the customer is always right.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kch on 04/22/2009 01:20 pm
they can't win no matter what they do...

Sure they can. They can succeed. Opinions on an internet forum + $0.50 won't buy you coffee.

That's for sure!  Tried it at McD's the other day -- they just looked at me funny ... ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Antares on 04/22/2009 03:32 pm
I disagree with those statements about the relative culpability on this environments issue.  It sounds to me like the launch vehicle isn't obeying the ICD, not the spacecraft.  At this point, the knobs to fix it are on the launch vehicle no matter which is at fault.  However, all of the language says that the launch vehicle is the source of the violation, not that the spacecraft was under-designed.  Either that or SpaceX is really allowing their customer to save face.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 04/22/2009 03:34 pm
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Launches042109.xml&headline=Sea%20Launch%20Flies;%20SpaceX%20Does%20Not&channel=space

Sea Launch Flies; SpaceX Does Not

Yea and last year it could have read - SpaceX Flies, Sea launch explodes..
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 04/22/2009 04:35 pm
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Launches042109.xml&headline=Sea%20Launch%20Flies;%20SpaceX%20Does%20Not&channel=space

Sea Launch Flies; SpaceX Does Not

Yea and last year it could have read - SpaceX Flies, Sea launch explodes..

Let's be precise, shall we?  The Sea-Launch failure you refer to was in early 2007.  How many successful Sea-Launch launches have there been since then?  How many successful SpaceX launches have there been in the same timeframe?   ;)

(And that's not even mentioning the difference in payload or trajectories obtained).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: stockman on 04/22/2009 04:38 pm
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Launches042109.xml&headline=Sea%20Launch%20Flies;%20SpaceX%20Does%20Not&channel=space

Sea Launch Flies; SpaceX Does Not

Yea and last year it could have read - SpaceX Flies, Sea launch explodes..

Let's be precise, shall we?  The Sea-Launch failure you refer to was in early 2007.  How many successful Sea-Launch launches have there been since then?  How many successful SpaceX launches have there been in the same timeframe?   ;)

(And that's not even mentioning the difference in payload or trajectories obtained).

Chill... its not meant to be a pissing contest here... it was just the headline was as meaningful as the one I posted..ok I was off a year. big deal...

now back on topic...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/22/2009 04:43 pm
Well, they might as well release the static fire video since that's all the action we'll see from them for a couple of months...

All in all, as others have noted, this actually could be a sign of maturity on their part. They seem to have stopped with the practice of making changes here and there and just throwing it up and seeing what happens (I know, an oversimplification) instead of really analysing and understanding all the potential side-effects.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/23/2009 02:27 am
I'm surprised they don't have a photo of the vehicle on the pad at Omelek.

They don't have a photo of the vehicle at the pad because it's not scheduled to be on the pad yet. That's coming up at L-5 days.

Also, there are photos of the hangar/tent, although not official ones. CorrodedNut posted links to a few galleries a while ago here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=9958.msg341963#msg341963

Apparently the vehicle WAS on the pad during this exchange since this is the day they reportedly did the static fire.  But they were most likely too preoccupied with their vibration issue to worry about posting a picture - and figuring out how to unlease a smokescreen with the F9 Argentine missions announcement.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/23/2009 02:35 am
Well, they might as well release the static fire video since that's all the action we'll see from them for a couple of months...

All in all, as others have noted, this actually could be a sign of maturity on their part. They seem to have stopped with the practice of making changes here and there and just throwing it up and seeing what happens (I know, an oversimplification) instead of really analysing and understanding all the potential side-effects.

I wouldn't consider it a sign of technical maturity.  Finding out during a static fire less than a week before launch that you have a violation of your ICD environments levels is a sign of lack of maturity in the understanding of the integrated vehicle system.  All of the 'analysing and understanding the potential side-effects' should have been done well before they got to the pad.  After four prior launch attempts, including multiple static fires on the pad and numerous tests in Texas, I would expect them to have a good handle on their dynamic environments.  Apparently they don't. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Spacenuts on 04/23/2009 03:13 am
"and figuring out how to unlease a smokescreen with the F9 Argentine missions announcement."

Please enlighten us.  You clearly have inside information concerning the news release.  Perhaps some inside memo showing that the two new flights are bogus?  Maybe the "info" shows that SpaceX signed those flights up months ago and they were just holdin' them close to the chest in case they needed a "smoke screen".   From my vantage point I have to say its pure speculation on your part. 

Now am I suspicious about the timing of the press release?  Maybe just a little but I will not begrudge them their good news no matter when they release it so long as it is true.  On the other hand I would have to say that your choice of words leaves me with a much clearer view of your bias than of the timing of SpaceX's news release.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 04/23/2009 07:44 am
Well, they might as well release the static fire video since that's all the action we'll see from them for a couple of months...

All in all, as others have noted, this actually could be a sign of maturity on their part. They seem to have stopped with the practice of making changes here and there and just throwing it up and seeing what happens (I know, an oversimplification) instead of really analysing and understanding all the potential side-effects.

I wouldn't consider it a sign of technical maturity.  Finding out during a static fire less than a week before launch that you have a violation of your ICD environments levels is a sign of lack of maturity in the understanding of the integrated vehicle system. 

So, when this sort of last-minute delay happens to Herschel/Planck and Ariane 5 it's OK, because "that's what last minute checks and verifications are for", but if it happens to SpaceX it's a sign of incompetence? In any case, I didn't say technical maturity, I meant their general, more serious approach to the payload safety.

Frankly, at this point you have no argument and knowledge of reasons what exactly prompted them to delay so these smokescreen accusations are nothing but weak speculation on your part.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/23/2009 12:42 pm

I wouldn't consider it a sign of technical maturity.  Finding out during a static fire less than a week before launch that you have a violation of your ICD environments levels is a sign of lack of maturity in the understanding of the integrated vehicle system. 

What makes you think this came out of the static firing and not some detailed back room analysis totally unrelated to the static firing?

Please provide some proof... SpaceX has not release what part of the flight this issue occurs in and the static firings are just start the first stage engine and shut down.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/23/2009 02:50 pm
"and figuring out how to unlease a smokescreen with the F9 Argentine missions announcement."

Please enlighten us.  You clearly have inside information concerning the news release.  Perhaps some inside memo showing that the two new flights are bogus?  Maybe the "info" shows that SpaceX signed those flights up months ago and they were just holdin' them close to the chest in case they needed a "smoke screen".   From my vantage point I have to say its pure speculation on your part. 

Now am I suspicious about the timing of the press release?  Maybe just a little but I will not begrudge them their good news no matter when they release it so long as it is true.  On the other hand I would have to say that your choice of words leaves me with a much clearer view of your bias than of the timing of SpaceX's news release.

No, I don't have any inside information.  I've just observed a pattern over the last few years that a splashy positive announcement by SpaceX often precedes a less emphasized negative one, such as a launch slip.  I admit it is only conjecture that is anything other that coincidence,  the facts are that it has happened a number of times.  And I'll also admit that I'm sceptical of SpaceX's claims.  I also see a lot of blind hope and faith in their success here and elsewhere - I trying to provide a reality check and point out the emperor may be missing a few articles of clothing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 - NET April 20, 2009 (RazakSat)
Post by: Cretan126 on 04/23/2009 02:53 pm

I wouldn't consider it a sign of technical maturity.  Finding out during a static fire less than a week before launch that you have a violation of your ICD environments levels is a sign of lack of maturity in the understanding of the integrated vehicle system. 

What makes you think this came out of the static firing and not some detailed back room analysis totally unrelated to the static firing?

Please provide some proof... SpaceX has not release what part of the flight this issue occurs in and the static firings are just start the first stage engine and shut down.

Yes, I was extrapolating that something showed up in the static fire test that gave rise to the vibration issue.  But I do think that is the most likely explanation.  Hopefully, SpaceX will tell us for sure give time.  But go double-or-nothing on those bragging rights that it did arise from the static fire!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: yinzer on 04/23/2009 03:31 pm
A Pegasus launch got delayed a few years back when a review discovered unexpected second stage ignition loads. This happens to the bigger guys, too.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Chris-A on 05/05/2009 03:06 pm
Flight 5 has slipped under the radar with little news...
I don't even hear the crickets ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: McDew on 05/05/2009 04:36 pm
Flight 5 has slipped under the radar with little news...
I don't even hear the crickets ;D
The news I heard indicates that both parties(especially the SC side) did a lousy job on the basic integration requirements, analyses, design, compatibility and verification.  Connectors were not even compatible.  Concerns now exist about design margins on the spacecraft.  Spacecraft may need to be shipped back to the factory.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 05/05/2009 04:39 pm
That's kind of hilarious. And sad. If that's the case, the utter silence from both parties doesn't surprise me anymore.

Concerns about design margins on the spacecraft or on the LV? Wasn't ATSB already involved in a prior F1 flight to acquire integration experience, etc?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: McDew on 05/05/2009 05:00 pm
That's kind of hilarious. And sad. If that's the case, the utter silence from both parties doesn't surprise me anymore.

Concerns about design margins on the spacecraft or on the LV? Wasn't ATSB already involved in a prior F1 flight to acquire integration experience, etc?
My understanding is that the spacecraft was not designed with robust margins.  So any significant updates in the environments, loads, analyses or any evaluation of them could cause problems.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: nblackwell on 05/05/2009 05:14 pm
Flight 5 has slipped under the radar with little news...
I don't even hear the crickets ;D
The news I heard indicates that both parties(especially the SC side) did a lousy job on the basic integration requirements, analyses, design, compatibility and verification.  Connectors were not even compatible.  Concerns now exist about design margins on the spacecraft.  Spacecraft may need to be shipped back to the factory.

On what do you base the assertion that the connectors were not compatible?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Patchouli on 05/05/2009 05:21 pm
That's kind of hilarious. And sad. If that's the case, the utter silence from both parties doesn't surprise me anymore.

Concerns about design margins on the spacecraft or on the LV? Wasn't ATSB already involved in a prior F1 flight to acquire integration experience, etc?
My understanding is that the spacecraft was not designed with robust margins.  So any significant updates in the environments, loads, analyses or any evaluation of them could cause problems.

F1's engine was changed to the higher thrust regen Merlin 1C and they likely designed RazakSat for loads seen with the Merlin 1A Falcon without much margin.

One big problem is a lot of other rides they could use likely have worse loads then you see on F1 which may explain why they don't just move to a new LV.

I think the problem area on the satellite likely is the optics.
It is an earth observation sat and if the optics even get knocked out alignment by even the tiniest amount the satellite becomes pretty much blind.

Think about it how many times did NRO have to try back in the early 60s before they got it right?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Art LeBrun on 05/05/2009 05:30 pm
Not sure how much optics were an issue in the NRO satellites but the film and film transport were a major concern as well as Agena reliability.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: McDew on 05/05/2009 08:29 pm
On what do you base the assertion that the connectors were not compatible?
Just that I was told the electrical connections were not compatible.  I guess this could also mean the PIN assignments were messed up instead or ???
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nomadd on 05/05/2009 08:31 pm

F1's engine was changed to the higher thrust regen Merlin 1C and they likely designed RazakSat for loads seen with the Merlin 1A Falcon without much margin.

One big problem is a lot of other rides they could use likely have worse loads then you see on F1 which may explain why they don't just move to a new LV.

I think the problem area on the satellite likely is the optics.
It is an earth observation sat and if the optics even get knocked out alignment by even the tiniest amount the satellite becomes pretty much blind.

Think about it how many times did NRO have to try back in the early 60s before they got it right?


 I'm not sure if the Merlin 1C is a factor. I know they went with it, but I think it was mostly because that's the engine they were producing at that point. It's throttled back to 78,000 pounds because that's all the F1 can handle. The Merlin 1A was rated at 77,000lb, so they're not getting much more thrust by going with the 1C.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: nblackwell on 05/06/2009 03:22 am
On what do you base the assertion that the connectors were not compatible?
Just that I was told the electrical connections were not compatible.  I guess this could also mean the PIN assignments were messed up instead or ???

I do seem to remember something saying that there was a "compatibility" issue, which might be the source of confusion.  Compatibility in this context could easily mean some kind of vibration thing as others have suggested.  Can you give a source that would indicate electrical incompatibility?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: mlorrey on 05/06/2009 05:22 am
On what do you base the assertion that the connectors were not compatible?
Just that I was told the electrical connections were not compatible.  I guess this could also mean the PIN assignments were messed up instead or ???

I do seem to remember something saying that there was a "compatibility" issue, which might be the source of confusion.  Compatibility in this context could easily mean some kind of vibration thing as others have suggested.  Can you give a source that would indicate electrical incompatibility?

Oh man, if its merely a matter of pin assignments, thats fixable in a few hours. If there is an electrical compatibility issue it could mean voltage, frequency, possibly even the payload has excessive power draw on the vehicle bus, or the payload requires signals of a higher voltage than the vehicle sends, or vice versa, and one side of the other is concerned about damage to their side of things.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Jim on 05/06/2009 12:04 pm

Oh man, if its merely a matter of pin assignments, thats fixable in a few hours. If there is an electrical compatibility issue it could mean voltage, frequency, possibly even the payload has excessive power draw on the vehicle bus, or the payload requires signals of a higher voltage than the vehicle sends, or vice versa, and one side of the other is concerned about damage to their side of things.

Launch vehicles avionics typically (almost always) don't interface directly with the payload avionics.   Launch vehicles don't provide to power spacecraft.   Spacecraft connectors are for interfacing with spacecraft GSE at the pad.  The spacecraft connectors mate to LV connectors on a harness which lead to umbilical mast and then to the customer's GSE in the pad area.

Any "electrical" interface problems usually are wrong clocking or location of the connectors (mechanical issues)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nomadd on 05/06/2009 12:53 pm
 I've troubleshot many bad interfaces that turned out to be things like people getting sloppy on RS-232/422 standards. The transition points between marks and spaces being off a few percent because of improper impedances is a big one. Any time I integrate serial devices from different manufacturers I use a homemade test box to find the middle of the working signal range to keep everything happy.
 It's one of those things that an old guy who's been taking things apart to see how they work since he was four, and doesn't think Heathkit is a cartoon cat is good at fixing.
 Clocking and pinnout is in the specs, so that would mean a foulup by somebody. 3.2 volt marks because the input imperdence is too low, where the circuit needs at least 3.4v is different people in different countries getting a little sloppy with the standards.
 Then again, it did take me way too long to find b8zs on one end and ami on the other last year.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: butters on 05/06/2009 05:39 pm
How did we get from "potential impact of predicted vehicle environments on the satellite" to "detected vibration at unsafe level on the launch vehicle" to talking about electrical connector compatibility?

This is my wild speculation: payload dynamic environment at second stage ignition may not have been accurately modeled during the design process, and/or the loads may have increased in flight 4 when they added the five second delay between MECO and separation.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 05/06/2009 05:59 pm
According to you, what effect would increase the loads at 2nd stage ignition merely due to a delayed ignition, opposed to a much more stressful 1st stage flight?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: butters on 05/06/2009 10:48 pm
According to you, what effect would increase the loads at 2nd stage ignition merely due to a delayed ignition, opposed to a much more stressful 1st stage flight?

Maybe the change in acceleration.  On flight 2, the first stage engine was still producing residual thrust when the stages separated, so the vehicle never decelerated.  Now the vehicle is allowed to go to neutral thrust before separation, so the ignition may be more violent.  Also the second stage is less massive relative to the payload.

But I'm no expert.  I'm just guessing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nomadd on 05/07/2009 12:21 pm
According to you, what effect would increase the loads at 2nd stage ignition merely due to a delayed ignition, opposed to a much more stressful 1st stage flight?

Maybe the change in acceleration.  On flight 2, the first stage engine was still producing residual thrust when the stages separated, so the vehicle never decelerated.  Now the vehicle is allowed to go to neutral thrust before separation, so the ignition may be more violent.  Also the second stage is less massive relative to the payload.

But I'm no expert.  I'm just guessing.
It sounds like you might be referring to flight 3, where they had a stage recontact because the new regen engine bled out H2 after separation and caused a burp, pushing the first stage back up. But why would residual thrust on a separated first stage have anything to do with second stage ignition? The second stage is always in freefall before ignition, whether for 1 second or 5.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: dunderwood on 05/07/2009 02:22 pm
they had a stage recontact because the new regen engine bled out H2 after separation and caused a burp

H2?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 05/07/2009 05:19 pm
IIRC, the troubleshooting on F-1 v5 &RazakSat was expected to last six weeks.  Has there been any indication of a revised launch date?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 05/07/2009 05:35 pm
IIRC, the troubleshooting on F-1 v5 &RazakSat was expected to last six weeks.

at least six weeks.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Analyst on 05/07/2009 05:44 pm
I am not known for being a SpaceX amazing people, but why should they be more specific with their updates, failure reports, delay explanations etc. than the other guys (ULA, Orbital ...)? Shuttle is different because it is NASA.

Analyst
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: kraisee on 05/08/2009 04:22 am
they had a stage recontact because the new regen engine bled out H2 after separation and caused a burp

H2?

1) An ancient Sanskrit term for kerosene.
2) Or me typing on more many pages than my brain can handle

(My emphasis)

I'm going with Option 2 ;)   LOL

Ross.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Comga on 05/12/2009 03:52 am
Does anyone here get Aerospace Defense?
In a news summary this morning there was this from that source on 5/8/2009:

"SpaceX hopes to reschedule a second launch attempt of the Malaysian RazakSAT Earth resources satellite next month. The April delay was due to a potential compatibility issue between the Falcon 1 vehicle and the payload."

Anyone have any information on where this comes from, if it is a real news item or just a rehashing of the old news?

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Antares on 05/12/2009 04:46 am
Nothing new in that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: jabe on 05/15/2009 11:07 am
Found launch update here. (http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsgeneral.php?id=411295) from Jeff Foust's (http://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1804912445) twittering.
jb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Pittsburgh on 05/15/2009 03:33 pm
Mid-July for Falcon 1?

When was the Falcon 9 supposed to go up?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/15/2009 04:17 pm
When was the Falcon 9 supposed to go up?

a couple of years ago ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: butters on 05/15/2009 04:38 pm
So now the official story is definitely that the observed dynamic environment violated predicted specifications.


But I wonder whether the observations were taken from flight 4 or from a more recent ground test of some sort.  The spacecraft people don't seem to be reacting as if they've known about this problem for six months.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Nomadd on 05/15/2009 06:59 pm
 I'm not sure if I'd consider that "official"
 My bet is that there's not complete agreement between the customer and the launcher as the the nature or reality of the problem.
 But, you don't get into public arguments with your first (sort of) paying customer.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: NUAETIUS on 05/15/2009 07:31 pm
Interesting that SpaceX deleted the Falcon I update when they added the new Dragon update.  One of the 1st times I have seen an updated deleted, and not scrolled down.

Conspiracy theories can start now.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: William Barton on 05/15/2009 07:39 pm
Interesting that SpaceX deleted the Falcon I update when they added the new Dragon update.  One of the 1st times I have seen an updated deleted, and not scrolled down.

Conspiracy theories can start now.

It's not deleted, it's shifted over to Launch Updates (unless you're referring to one I never saw--the 4/20 update?).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: Comga on 05/16/2009 10:45 pm
Although it has been out for five days, I don't see any mention here of the May 11 Aviation Week piece titled "Flight 5 - Take Two". 

It quotes "Falcon 1 product manager Brian Bjelde"  saying that SpaceX is "working to reschedule the launch in June or July" and "We hope to have a launch date released as soon as we confirm the range".

So sometime in the next ten weeks...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat)
Post by: ugordan on 05/29/2009 10:17 am
Gwynne Shotwell confirmed at ISDC the vibration mitigation will be done at the payload adapter interface, if there ever was any uncertainty about that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat - July 13
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/01/2009 03:25 pm
SPACEX AND ATSB ANNOUNCE NEW LAUNCH DATE FOR RAZAKSAT SATELLITE

 

 

Hawthorne, CA (June 1, 2009) - Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) and Astronautic Technology (M) Sdn Bhd (ATSB) of Malaysia announce a new launch window has been set for Falcon 1 Flight 5, carrying the RazakSAT satellite to orbit.  The launch window opens Monday, July 13th and extends through Tuesday, July 14th, with a daily window to open at 4:00 p.m. (PDT) / 7:00 p.m. (EDT).

 

The launch was delayed last month after SpaceX identified the potential for an unfavorable interaction between the satellite and the launch vehicle.  After further analysis, SpaceX determined the implementation of a simple vibration isolation system would address this concern.  SpaceX selected the SoftRide isolation system from CSA Engineering for this purpose, citing the system’s strong flight heritage and established success in addressing vibration concerns.

 

Falcon 1, a two-stage, liquid oxygen/rocket-grade kerosene vehicle designed from the ground up by SpaceX, will place the RazakSAT satellite, equipped with a high resolution Medium-Sized Aperture Camera (MAC), into a near equatorial orbit.

 

RazakSAT was designed and built by ATSB, a pioneer and leader in the design and manufacture of satellites in Malaysia. The satellite is expected to provide high resolution images of Malaysia that can be applied to land management, resource development and conservation, forestry and fish migration.

 

SpaceX's Falcon 1 launch site is located approximately 2500 miles southwest of Hawaii on Omelek Island, part of the Reagan Test Site (RTS) at United States Army Kwajalein Atoll (USAKA) in the Central Pacific. Due to the location of the launch site, the Kwajalein local date at the opening of the launch window will be Tuesday, July 14th.

 

SpaceX will provide live coverage of the Falcon 1 Flight 5/RazakSAT mission via webcast at www.SpaceX.com . The webcast will begin 20 minutes prior to launch and will include mission briefings, live feeds and launch coverage from the launch site.  Post-launch, video footage and photos will be available for download on the Web site.

 

 

 

About SpaceX

 

SpaceX is developing a family of launch vehicles and spacecraft intended to increase the reliability and reduce the cost of both manned and unmanned space transportation, ultimately by a factor of ten. With the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 vehicles, SpaceX offers highly reliable/cost-efficient launch capabilities for spacecraft insertion into any orbital altitude and inclination. Starting in 2010, SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft will provide Earth-to-LEO transport of pressurized and unpressurized cargo, including resupply to the International Space Station (ISS).

 

Founded in 2002, the SpaceX team now numbers over 700, with corporate headquarters in Hawthorne, California.   For more information, please visit the company’s web site at www.spacex.com .

 

 

About ATSB®

 

Astronautic Technology Sdn. Bhd. (ATSB) was established to thrust Malaysia into the orbit of nations with space satellite technology. ATSB focuses on research and development in the area of design and development of space qualified systems employing advanced and innovative technologies.

 

As the pioneer and leader in the small satellite business in Malaysia, ATSB has recorded numerous achievements within a short span of time. These include the design, development, launch and operation of Malaysia's first micro-satellite, the TiungSAT-1. This hereditary knowledge leads to the design and development of the second micro-satellite, the RazakSAT and also the undertaking of Malaysia's high-technology intensive programmes. For more information, please visit the company's web site at www.atsb.my .

 

 

About CSA Engineering

CSA Engineering delivers products and services in vibration suppression, precision motion and noise control. CSA has a 27-year history of meeting customer needs in government programs and commercial products, specializing in aerospace vehicles, structures and components.

A three-time winner of U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) awards, CSA was named the National Small Business Government Contractor for the year 2002. CSA was also acknowledged with the SBIR Tibbetts Award, and has received commendations from Boeing, Lockheed, NASA, Orbital Sciences, TRW and others.

CSA Engineering is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Moog Inc. and is part of Moog's Space and Defense Group.  For more information, please visit the company’s web site at www.csaengineering.com .

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: lbiderman on 06/08/2009 12:53 pm
Let´s hope they can keep it...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: madscientist197 on 06/09/2009 12:52 am
At least now they ought to be on top of the vibration issue and have a prepared solution for any further customers.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: ugordan on 06/09/2009 08:16 am
At least now they ought to be on top of the vibration issue and have a prepared solution for any further customers.

OR they can better characterize the payload environment on the way up so payload manufacturers can design the payload to cope. Alternatively (depending on whose fault this was), make sure the customer understands the already provided environment figures...

Vibration mitigation costs both money and mass margin. AFAIK they won't be able to launch any nanosats because of this change in payload adapter.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: NUAETIUS on 06/09/2009 01:16 pm
Vibration mitigation costs both money and mass margin. AFAIK they won't be able to launch any nanosats because of this change in payload adapter.

Where did you see announcement that the nanosats where dropped?  Was this announced, or can you explain why the nanosats must have been dropped?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: ugordan on 06/09/2009 01:25 pm
Gwynne Shotwell said it at ISDC. Something about the vibration mitigation system being installed at the payload adapter interface so there was no room or deploy mechanism available for nanosats. I might have misunderstood her, but I think that's the gist of it.
Title: RazakSat launch only after experts satisfaction
Post by: osiossim on 06/09/2009 01:40 pm


http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/NewsBreak/20090609175056/Article/index_html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Lampyridae on 06/10/2009 04:36 am
Hmmm doesn't tell us anything new really. No indication of whether the problem's been fixed to everyone's satisfaction.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 06/10/2009 09:19 am
@ Lampyridae,

FWIW - I don't think that Space-X would have issued a revised launch date unless there was at least a provisional 'go' from the customer's experts.  I wonder if this is a sort of confidence-building measure on the part of the Malaysian space agency: "Hey! We had smart people verify the engineering! Of course we're ready to go!"
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Cretan126 on 06/10/2009 04:13 pm
Gwynne Shotwell said it at ISDC. Something about the vibration mitigation system being installed at the payload adapter interface so there was no room or deploy mechanism available for nanosats. I might have misunderstood her, but I think that's the gist of it.

The press release says they are using a 'Softride' isolatin system from CSA Engineering. The CSA web site has this brochure that might help explain how they are mitigating the Falcon I vibration issue:

http://www.csaengineering.com/spclnch/CSAEngineering_uniflex.pdf
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: osiossim on 06/22/2009 11:23 am
Razaksat To Be Launched July 14



http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsindex.php?id=418740

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: William Graham on 06/22/2009 12:00 pm
Razaksat To Be Launched July 14
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsindex.php?id=418740

I presume that's (Malaysian) local time. 23:00 GMT on 13 July will be 07:00 MST on 14 July.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/05/2009 04:27 pm
8 days out to scheduled launch of Falcon 1 Flight 5.

If they are on schedule the RazakSat should be integrated, and encapsulated.  Flight Readiness Review should begin on Monday.

per Falcon 1 User guide:
(FRR) Review of launch vehicle and payload checkouts in hanger.  Confirmation of readiness to proceed with vehicle roll out.  Day 7 through 2
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: G-pit on 07/08/2009 04:41 am
5 days out to scheduled launch of RazakSat on Falcon 1. FRR should be well underway, followed by vehicle roll out. Any news?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/08/2009 04:56 am
5 days out to scheduled launch of RazakSat on Falcon 1. FRR should be well underway, followed by vehicle roll out. Any news?

It doesn't show at all on the MSDB.  Past Falcon launches have been on that list.
http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/launches.php

 - Ed Kyle 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: A_M_Swallow on 07/09/2009 01:52 am
Is the RazakSat now the Falcon 1's only payload?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/09/2009 03:07 am
Is the RazakSat now the Falcon 1's only payload?

Yes, the others where removed, per Mrs Shotwell
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Comga on 07/09/2009 03:46 am
5 days out to scheduled launch of RazakSat on Falcon 1. FRR should be well underway, followed by vehicle roll out. Any news?

It doesn't show at all on the MSDB.  Past Falcon launches have been on that list.
http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/launches.php

 - Ed Kyle 

And now its 4 days out with no news.

Is that Goddard list any more authoritative than, say, the upcoming launch list at SpaceflightNow?  http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html  Falcon 1 flight 5 is on that list.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/11/2009 11:25 pm
5 days out to scheduled launch of RazakSat on Falcon 1. FRR should be well underway, followed by vehicle roll out. Any news?

It doesn't show at all on the MSDB.  Past Falcon launches have been on that list.
http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/launches.php

 - Ed Kyle 

And now its 4 days out with no news.

Is that Goddard list any more authoritative than, say, the upcoming launch list at SpaceflightNow?  http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html  Falcon 1 flight 5 is on that list.

SpaceX itself announced the launch date on June 1st.  It seems unlikely, though not impossible, that the launch is still on track for its original date.  Very few launches of any launch vehicle occur on the actual dates projected six weeks beforehand.

In the past, SpaceX has given an update a few days before a launch.  Nothing on this one so far.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Zond on 07/12/2009 10:13 am
This blog seems to be from somebody who seems to be involved in operating the satellite and there isn't any talk of delays: http://mikerasta.blogspot.com/ (http://mikerasta.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: ugordan on 07/12/2009 10:51 am
I think SpaceX might be cautious this time and delaying announcement of a go-ahead with the launch until the Launch Readiness Review passes and that is scheduled for sometime today.

If so, I would venture to guess we might get a release later today on the current status. Then again, we got a delay announcement a day ahead last time so one way or the other...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: ugordan on 07/12/2009 01:46 pm
There's something RazakSat related posted at this site (http://melayu.me/razaksat/), but it's in Malay. I stumbled across an online translator (http://www.citcat.com/green_ov.jsp?lang=1) that seems to be able to translate Malay to English. It gives the following output:

Quote
KUALA LUMPUR 12 July — Inovatif Malaysia pride, RazakSAT satellite, already prepared to be launched per schedule in day this Tuesday from Kwajalein Atoll in Republik Marshall Islands.

Minister of Science Technology and Innovations Datuk Dr Maximus Ongkili; Deputy Secretary-general (Policy) Datuk Dr Sharifah's ministry Zarah Syed Ahmad; and those senior ministry officials expect to arrive in Guam today to witness historic launch the satellite via live telecast aired by website, according a the ministry statement here today. 

So it would seem the launch is still on.

EDIT: Ahh, there's also this (http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsgeneral.php?id=424829), in English:

Quote
The minister was also informed that the satellite and launch vehicle, the Falcon 1, which is operated by United States's Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX), have now been erected on the launch pad at Omelek Island, the launch site for Falcon 1.

...

However it said all issues related to the problem had been rectified with upgrading carried out by SpaceX.

"I am satisfied with the preparations and necessary steps taken by ATSB and SpaceX to ensure a smooth launch. We hope all Malaysians will pray for the successful launch of RazakSAT," Ongkili said.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Comga on 07/12/2009 04:17 pm
This blog seems to be from somebody who seems to be involved in operating the satellite and there isn't any talk of delays: http://mikerasta.blogspot.com/ (http://mikerasta.blogspot.com/)
Good find!
His post from Thursday 7/9 has a countdown.  It is now (7/12 16:04 UTC) at 1 day 13 hrs 56 min, putting the launch at 7/14 6:00 UTC , 2:00 EDT, 7/13 23:00 PDT. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: ugordan on 07/12/2009 04:24 pm
Something's wrong with your countdown, mine shows 1d 5 hr 35 min right now, which correctly translates to July 13, 22:00 UTC
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Comga on 07/12/2009 04:43 pm
Your time makes more sense, particularly with SpaceX staements about the launch window at Kwaj, but the countdown comes up the same for me on two different computers.  Strange.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: KSC Sage on 07/12/2009 04:51 pm
Your time makes more sense, particularly with SpaceX staements about the launch window at Kwaj, but the countdown comes up the same for me on two different computers.  Strange.

The last I heard a few days ago from a reliable source the launch was a go on July 13 between 7:00pm to 11:00pm EDT.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: ugordan on 07/12/2009 04:52 pm
It's probably your timezone settings.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: patmamu on 07/12/2009 11:15 pm
Looks like a double header now shuttle has scrubbed. Guess it is time to pull out my second monitor. Does anyone know if shuttle and falcon would share tracking stations leading to a possiible Falcon scrub waiting for Shuttle to go.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: butters on 07/12/2009 11:27 pm
I wonder if SpaceX would consider scrubbing tomorrow simply because the Shuttle would clobber their news cycle.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: Chandonn on 07/12/2009 11:33 pm
I wonder if SpaceX would consider scrubbing tomorrow simply because the Shuttle would clobber their news cycle.

I seriously doubt it.  Most news sources wouldn't regularly cover SpaceX, but they just might as an add-on to the shuttle story.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: hop on 07/12/2009 11:55 pm
I wonder if SpaceX would consider scrubbing tomorrow simply because the Shuttle would clobber their news cycle.
The idea that spacex needs headline space is bizarre. The people they need to impress are customers and investors. Anyone who is serious about buying launches or investing will know how the launch went. They  want payloads launched successfully and on time.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/13/2009 03:19 am
Hmm, well the timing of this makes life interesting due to conflict with STS-127.

And yet we don't have a specific launch window it seems.

Anyhoo, moved for live coverage (as we'll find a way of dual coverage).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 04:06 am
Something's wrong with your countdown, mine shows 1d 5 hr 35 min right now, which correctly translates to July 13, 22:00 UTC
Mine currently shows 18h, 55m, which is 23:00 GMT. I suspect that this is correct, as that time has been mentioned several times before, as well as being the window open time for the April launch attempt, and IIRC, the four Falcons before that.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/13/2009 04:27 am
http://www.guamnewsfactor.com/20090712652/Top-Stories/Live-Guam-Webcast-To-Monitor-Satellite-Rocket-Launch-From-Kwajalein.html

Guam's Tuesday is our Monday, so looks like Malaysia still thinks it's on for Today.

GUAM - Malaysia's Science, Technology and Innovation Minister and other senior officials from the Southeast Asian nation arrived on Guam yesterday to watch the historical launch of the Malaysian communications satellite RazakSAT, set for ignition this Tuesday at Omelek Island, part of the Kwajalein Atoll in the Republic of the Marshalls.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 04:37 am
If the Falcon goes at the start of the window (something Falcon is yet to achieve), and the Shuttle launches on time (at 22:51), then the launches will be nine minutes apart. I believe this will be the shortest ever gap between two orbital launches. I quickly wrote a programme to analyse Jonathan McDowell's launch log, and the closest launches I could find were of a Diamant A and a Voskhod on 8 February 1967; at 09:39 and 10:19 respectively (40 minutes apart). A Thor-Burner had launched earlier on the same day, and all three launches were within 150 minutes of each other. Obviously this analysis does not take into account a number of (failed) launches with no known time.

Shuttle window closes a few seconds after 22:56, so a gap of less than four minutes is possible.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Comga on 07/13/2009 04:39 am
http://www.guamnewsfactor.com/20090712652/Top-Stories/Live-Guam-Webcast-To-Monitor-Satellite-Rocket-Launch-From-Kwajalein.html

Guam's Tuesday is our Monday, so looks like Malaysia still thinks it's on for Today.

GUAM - Malaysia's Science, Technology and Innovation Minister and other senior officials from the Southeast Asian nation arrived on Guam yesterday to watch the historical launch of the Malaysian communications satellite RazakSAT, set for ignition this Tuesday at Omelek Island, part of the Kwajalein Atoll in the Republic of the Marshalls.

Excuse me but does anyone know the reason for them to go to Guam to watch the launch?  It may be half way between Indonesia and Kwajalein but how does that matter with webcasts and such flowing over the Internet?  Guam is a long flight across the Pacific. I cannot even guess why.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 04:51 am
http://www.guamnewsfactor.com/20090712652/Top-Stories/Live-Guam-Webcast-To-Monitor-Satellite-Rocket-Launch-From-Kwajalein.html

Guam's Tuesday is our Monday, so looks like Malaysia still thinks it's on for Today.

GUAM - Malaysia's Science, Technology and Innovation Minister and other senior officials from the Southeast Asian nation arrived on Guam yesterday to watch the historical launch of the Malaysian communications satellite RazakSAT, set for ignition this Tuesday at Omelek Island, part of the Kwajalein Atoll in the Republic of the Marshalls.

Excuse me but does anyone know the reason for them to go to Guam to watch the launch?  It may be half way between Indonesia and Kwajalein but how does that matter with webcasts and such flowing over the Internet?  Guam is a long flight across the Pacific. I cannot even guess why.

There's a tracking station on Guam. I'm not sure if they're using it, but if they are, then maybe that has something to do with it.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 09:26 am
Since we don't have a press kit, just a note that we're likely to have a two-burn insertion into the 685 km circular orbit. As per the User Guide, F1 doesn't have the performance to do a direct insertion so unless something goes wrong before that, we should expect spacecraft separation some 50-ish minutes after launch.

In other words, a flight profile similar to Flight 4 - though I hope this time they delay the spacecraft separation trigger until after the Kestrel restart... ::)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Spacenuts on 07/13/2009 09:39 am
A question for anyone who might know,,  Of all of the possible reasons that we might not hear from SpaceX prior to or during launch, could it be that the customer has asked it not to be televised so that a failure video would not be available???  I have no personal sense of if this would be one possible reason.  Insight please.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 09:41 am
Of all of the possible reasons that we might not hear from SpaceX prior to or during launch, could it be that the customer has asked it not to be televised so that a failure video would not be available???

http://www.spacex.com/launch_updates.php
Quote
SpaceX will provide live coverage of the Falcon 1 Flight 5/RazakSAT mission via webcast at www.SpaceX.com. The webcast will begin 20 minutes prior to launch and will include mission briefings, live feeds and launch coverage from the launch site. Post-launch, video footage and photos will be available for download on the web site.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Spacenuts on 07/13/2009 09:48 am
Ah, I should learn to read,, thanks.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: osiossim on 07/13/2009 10:53 am
Stragenly, there is nothing on Malaysian media as well. But the launch vehicle is in vertical position now.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: thomson on 07/13/2009 11:48 am
(My first post.) Previous launches were aborted/postponed several times. The launch window is 5 hours long. During previous launch (was it 3rd flight?) they were able to abort, analyze the issue, restart the countdown and acually launch within an hour or so.

What are the chances that Falcon will fly within this launch window?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/13/2009 11:51 am
Welcome to the site's forum Thomson.

=====
To all. We're going to end up with a live event thread with 50 posts with URLs to other sites saying "we aren't sure of the launch window" - which is going to be a nightmare on a thread which is very long already.

Let's wait for OFFICIAL confirmation of the launch window and go with that.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: osiossim on 07/13/2009 01:40 pm
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/7/13/nation/4307299&sec=nation

RazakSAT set for launch
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 01:47 pm
How would that be resolved then - in STS or SpaceX favor?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/13/2009 01:51 pm
Rumor floating around work that STS requires a range asset used by SpaceX for this launch. Can't personally see why that would be true, but, we'll see.

Tracking station? TDRS time? Recycle time on one?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: thomson on 07/13/2009 02:14 pm
According to http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/13/live-coverage-spacex-falcon-1-flight-5-razaksat/ (http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/13/live-coverage-spacex-falcon-1-flight-5-razaksat/), there are actually 3 sats on-board: RazakSAT and two cube sats (InnoSat and CubeSat).

RazakSAT is 180kg. How big is an average cube sat? Are those two are going to be deployed to the same orbit as primary payload?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 02:18 pm
That information is outdated, there are no cube sats onboard after the vibration dampener had to be installed.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nate_Trost on 07/13/2009 02:51 pm
If they haven't adjusted procedures, past launch experiences with waits on temperatures would make launching right at the start of their window highly unlikely....
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ineedalife999 on 07/13/2009 02:58 pm
I believe that the space tracking radars at Kwajelein are used to support the shuttle, as the only other space tracking radar site in the Pacific is on Oahu.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: soldeed on 07/13/2009 03:04 pm
According to http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/13/live-coverage-spacex-falcon-1-flight-5-razaksat/ (http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/13/live-coverage-spacex-falcon-1-flight-5-razaksat/), there are actually 3 sats on-board: RazakSAT and two cube sats (InnoSat and CubeSat).

RazakSAT is 180kg. How big is an average cube sat? Are those two are going to be deployed to the same orbit as primary payload?


If you check that website again, you will see they have corrected themselves on the cubesat issue
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/13/2009 03:10 pm
I believe that the space tracking radars at Kwajelein are used to support the shuttle, as the only other space tracking radar site in the Pacific is on Oahu.

Guam?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 03:25 pm
If the Falcon goes at the start of the window (something Falcon is yet to achieve), and the Shuttle launches on time (at 22:51), then the launches will be nine minutes apart. I believe this will be the shortest ever gap between two orbital launches. I quickly wrote a programme to analyse Jonathan McDowell's launch log, and the closest launches I could find were of a Diamant A and a Voskhod on 8 February 1967; at 09:39 and 10:19 respectively (40 minutes apart). A Thor-Burner had launched earlier on the same day, and all three launches were within 150 minutes of each other. Obviously this analysis does not take into account a number of (failed) launches with no known time.

Shuttle window closes a few seconds after 22:56, so a gap of less than four minutes is possible.

Having rechecked these details, I have found two launches within the space of two minutes, on 18 August 1960: A Thor-Agena at 19:57 followed by a Thor-Ablestar at 19:58.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Art LeBrun on 07/13/2009 03:29 pm
If the Falcon goes at the start of the window (something Falcon is yet to achieve), and the Shuttle launches on time (at 22:51), then the launches will be nine minutes apart. I believe this will be the shortest ever gap between two orbital launches. I quickly wrote a programme to analyse Jonathan McDowell's launch log, and the closest launches I could find were of a Diamant A and a Voskhod on 8 February 1967; at 09:39 and 10:19 respectively (40 minutes apart). A Thor-Burner had launched earlier on the same day, and all three launches were within 150 minutes of each other. Obviously this analysis does not take into account a number of (failed) launches with no known time.

Shuttle window closes a few seconds after 22:56, so a gap of less than four minutes is possible.

Having rechecked these details, I have found two launches within the space of two minutes, on 18 August 1960: A Thor-Agena at 19:57 followed by a Thor-Ablestar at 19:58.

VAFB with Discoverer 14 followed by AMR with Courier 1A....thanks for the timing information.

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ineedalife999 on 07/13/2009 03:31 pm
I thought Guam was a Comms station, but I may be wrong. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Surveillance_Network

But they can land the shuttle there!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/13/2009 03:35 pm
The odds of both vehicles launching on time is rather slim given the weather at KSC and SpaceX still being something of a wildcard from an operational standpoint.  Probably better odds that neither launch today.

But that's just me, the proud pessimist.  At least when I'm wrong, it's because something good happened...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/13/2009 04:58 pm
SpaceX's webcast page now says that the webcast will start at 3:40pm  PDT:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php

So coverage will start 20 min before the launch window as they have previously stated.

P.S. It still says flight 4 at the top of the page, but the text is new, as it was not there an hour ago.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/13/2009 05:09 pm
Okay, now the top banner says "Falcon 1: RazakSAT Launch Webcast"

New: SpaceX's main index page now has the link to the webcast:
"Falcon 1: RazakSAT Launch Scheduled Today"
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: osiossim on 07/13/2009 05:29 pm
Errrr. What is the equvalent tof PDT to CET? What time is this 3:40 PDF in Europe?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 05:31 pm
Errrr. What is the equvalent tof PDT to CET? What time is this 3:40 PDF in Europe?

22:40 GMT
23:40 BST
00:40 CEST
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Almurray1958 on 07/13/2009 05:33 pm
try here http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ for all time zones, also you can set up clocks to compare times in several different locations.

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/13/2009 05:42 pm
I forget, did they say the TPS was going to be on this flight or not?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/13/2009 05:49 pm
I forget, did they say the TPS was going to be on this flight or not?

Same TPS as Flight 4, whose first stage burned up.  New TPS that might enable recovery to debut on Falcon 9/1e.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/13/2009 05:50 pm
I forget, did they say the TPS was going to be on this flight or not?
If i recall they took off the TPS to keep margins high for the launch..just like removing the cubesats
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/13/2009 06:07 pm
I forget, did they say the TPS was going to be on this flight or not?
If i recall they took off the TPS to keep margins high for the launch..just like removing the cubesats

They removed the cubesats because they added the SoftRide vibration damper at the payload adapter.  They wouldn't fly without TPS.  The question was (or at least it should have been) whether they beefed up the TPS, and they haven't.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 06:10 pm
I forget, did they say the TPS was going to be on this flight or not?
If i recall they took off the TPS to keep margins high for the launch..just like removing the cubesats

They removed the cubesats because they added the SoftRide vibration damper at the payload adapter.  They wouldn't fly without TPS.

In this case TPS refers to the recovery TPS (only used if the first stage is being recovered). IIRC, they flew without it on the last launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 06:11 pm
They wouldn't fly without TPS.  The question was (or at least it should have been) whether they beefed up the TPS.

They are flying without recovery hardware on the 1st stage. It's been all posted in this thread already.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/13/2009 06:15 pm
I recall Musk saying (paraphrasing) that they flew with recovery hardware (parachutes etc.) on flight 4 and had TPS intended to enable recovery, but it turned out to be insufficient.  Since they're not beefing up the TPS for flight 5, makes no sense to fly the recovery hardware.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nate_Trost on 07/13/2009 06:26 pm
Except I would say: flight 4 worked fine, why change the configuration and remove the recovery hardware?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/13/2009 06:33 pm
Except I would say: flight 4 worked fine, why change the configuration and remove the recovery hardware?

Why waste the recovery h/w if you know it will burn up anyway??  save it for a flight where you plan to beef up the shielding
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 06:34 pm
Except I would say: flight 4 worked fine, why change the configuration and remove the recovery hardware?
Mass margin.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/13/2009 06:59 pm
Launch preview:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/07/live-falcon-1-razaksat-for-malaysias-atsb/ - by William Graham.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/13/2009 08:02 pm
The webcast portal is up, looks like they are testing or geting ready to test it.

http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/13/2009 08:14 pm
It's been that way for over an hour, at one point it actually showed a video stream of a frozen counter at T-02:30:00 and then it stopped again.

BTW, anyone know of a good method for recording the stream? Does VLC cut it?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Andrewwski on 07/13/2009 08:43 pm
Nope...I believe we've found screen recorders to be the only way in the past.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris-A on 07/13/2009 09:46 pm
New mini-update: "Webcast pending--please stay tuned for udpates."
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/13/2009 09:48 pm
Hearing a new launch time of 02:00Z
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: amon on 07/13/2009 09:56 pm
I have just spent the last hour catching up with the thread from the start and thought I would through in one answer to a question raised way back. Someone was wondering about the use of names like 'Merlin'. Well, if you look at the two engines you will note they are named Merlin and Kestrel. Now, what else do you know of that are named Merlin and Kestrel? If you grew up building Airfix models of WWII British fighter planes, you should immediately know the answer!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: KGyST on 07/13/2009 09:58 pm
CubeSat has three standard weights: 0,5 or 1,0 or 2,0 kg.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kanarkusmaximus on 07/13/2009 10:05 pm
CubeSat has three standard weights: 0,5 or 1,0 or 2,0 kg.

Close, but not exactly. :)

A standard 10x10x10 cm Cubesat should be below 1,0 kg. There are possible Cubesat versions - 0,5, 2 and 3 units in size and weight. 0,5 unit should be below 0,5 kg, 2 unit should be below 2 kg and 3 unit should be below 3 kg. The most popular of course is 1 unit Cubesat with 1kg maximum weight.

Of course, deviation is possible, depending on how close you want to stick to one standard or the other, which is important for Cubesat deployer (there are now several options, some of them allow for different maximum weights).
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: A8-3 on 07/13/2009 10:08 pm
I have just spent the last hour catching up with the thread from the start and thought I would through in one answer to a question raised way back. Someone was wondering about the use of names like 'Merlin'. Well, if you look at the two engines you will note they are named Merlin and Kestrel. Now, what else do you know of that are named Merlin and Kestrel? If you grew up building Airfix models of WWII British fighter planes, you should immediately know the answer!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Kestrel
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/13/2009 10:09 pm
I have just spent the last hour catching up with the thread from the start and thought I would through in one answer to a question raised way back. Someone was wondering about the use of names like 'Merlin'. Well, if you look at the two engines you will note they are named Merlin and Kestrel. Now, what else do you know of that are named Merlin and Kestrel? If you grew up building Airfix models of WWII British fighter planes, you should immediately know the answer!


Well, in addition to being Rolls-Royce airplane engines from the 1930s, they're also two extremely similar-looking birds of prey (like falcons)...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Apollo-phill on 07/13/2009 10:11 pm
Someone was wondering about the use of names like 'Merlin'. Well, if you look at the two engines you will note they are named Merlin and Kestrel. Now, what else do you know of that are named Merlin and Kestrel?


Merlin and Kestrel are the names of two falcon bird species.

And the name of the rocket is..........Falcon  ::)


Phill
UK
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris-A on 07/13/2009 10:13 pm
"Estimated webcast start time: 6:40 PDT."

Edit: we have video/picture, maybe a test
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: StuffOfInterest on 07/13/2009 10:15 pm
Someone was wondering about the use of names like 'Merlin'. Well, if you look at the two engines you will note they are named Merlin and Kestrel. Now, what else do you know of that are named Merlin and Kestrel?


Merlin and Kestrel are the names of two falcon bird species.

And the name of the rocket is..........Falcon  ::)

That naming scheme fits in with the LH2/LOX upper stage they are working on, Raptor.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 10:16 pm
"Estimated webcast start time: 6:40 PDT."

Which just about confirms that they are targeting 02:00 GMT.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: hypermecanix on 07/13/2009 10:16 pm
Hello everybody,

Can someone recall the parameters of this flight for me ? (orbit altitude and inclinaison, s/c weight)

Thx
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: pbreed on 07/13/2009 10:24 pm
I hope this goes well.
The timing with respect to  the current NASA commission and COTS would be bad for a failure.

Building Hardware is different than building software it takes a bit more work to make it consistent.  I hope it is a lesson that  Spacex has learned, the 1st stage separation/2nd stage start up looked a bit scary even on the flight that worked.

I'm completely wiped from three days in the desert and get to watch both Spacex and the Shuttle launch within an hour of each other. Needless to say I'm not going to accomplish much this afternoon.

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/13/2009 10:28 pm
the web cast update page has gone back to "web cast pending"..hope that isn;t a bad thing.
jb

edit:even Kimbals tweets and his blog http://kwajrockets.blogspot.com/ (http://kwajrockets.blogspot.com/) don't mention the launch..geesh.  what good is this internet thing for!!  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/13/2009 10:28 pm
Status is back to "Webcast pending--please check back for updates.". That doesn't sound encouraging.

Hello everybody,

Can someone recall the parameters of this flight for me ? (orbit altitude and inclinaison, s/c weight)

Thx

685 kilometres, 9 degrees, 180 kilograms.
I did put them in the article (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/07/live-falcon-1-razaksat-for-malaysias-atsb/)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: pbreed on 07/13/2009 10:40 pm
The Webcast still says will start at 6:40PM.

It would be really nice if they included a time zone.


Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: patmamu on 07/13/2009 10:43 pm
lol well at least we can rule out GMT to EST so far :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/13/2009 10:44 pm
OK..... Audience now looks to you SpaceX to give us a launch today.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/13/2009 10:44 pm
The Webcast still says will start at 6:40PM.

It would be really nice if they included a time zone.




It said "6:40 PM PDT" earlier...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: hypermecanix on 07/13/2009 10:49 pm
How come the launch window is so long ?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: amon on 07/13/2009 10:50 pm
Given that it is a remote sensing satellite and a small one, they probably do not care about the initial orbit ground track, only about inclination and apogee/perigee. It's not like they have to actually rendezvous with another craft.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: hypermecanix on 07/13/2009 10:59 pm
I read spaceX is using pneumatic separation systems.
Is this technology used on another launch vehicle ?

In their previous flight, they have not yet tested separation between s/c and upper stage. Is this again a pneumatic system ?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/13/2009 11:02 pm
I read spaceX is using pneumatic separation systems.
Is this technology used on another launch vehicle ?

In their previous flight, they have not yet tested separation between s/c and upper stage. Is this again a pneumatic system ?

Yes and no
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/13/2009 11:02 pm
How come the launch window is so long ?

Because there are no requirements constraining it
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kkattula on 07/13/2009 11:08 pm
I read spaceX is using pneumatic separation systems.
Is this technology used on another launch vehicle ?

In their previous flight, they have not yet tested separation between s/c and upper stage. Is this again a pneumatic system ?

Flight 2 did eject the payload after the second stage shutdown. Just not at orbital velocity.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/13/2009 11:19 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Michael Bloxham on 07/13/2009 11:19 pm
When is this thing taking off? How many hours from now to avoid confusion with time zones please.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/13/2009 11:19 pm
No it says 4:15pm PST. Maybe delay was because tracking requirement for Space shuttle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: hypermecanix on 07/13/2009 11:22 pm
Nasa is providing the ground tracking radars for SpaceX ?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: sdsds on 07/13/2009 11:22 pm
When is this thing taking off? How many hours from now to avoid confusion with time zones please.

T-0 could be less than one hour from now.

EDIT: ... or could be more than three hours from now.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/13/2009 11:46 pm
Nasa is providing the ground tracking radars for SpaceX ?

NASA has none in the Pacific
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris-A on 07/14/2009 12:17 am
I spy countdown clock. T-2:14:00
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ST47 on 07/14/2009 12:21 am
Does that mean we're really launching then (which would coincide with 730 pm pdt) or are there built-in holds? Do we get a launch timeline for the falcon I or is it too new for fancy PR info?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 12:25 am
yes and no and yes
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Swatch on 07/14/2009 12:42 am
Jim, I think there were 4 questions there.... :)  (but only 3 question marks)

Where are you guys seeing the countdown clock?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ST47 on 07/14/2009 12:43 am
It disappeared :(

We're at T-1:47.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:06 am

Timestamp update.. still appears to be on time

7:00 pm PDT: Estimated T-zero at 7:30pm PDT


.......

edit  - no worries.. just reposting... :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 02:07 am
Posts in this thread are either update to the launch time, or specific to the launch.

Chat away as much as you want about media players in this thread:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17809.0

Roger, I was still tidying the thread.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 02:11 am
16mph wind
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:13 am
hmm, well it is about 17 minutes to a t-0 at 7:30 PDT....
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:16 am
Last update was at 02:00, at which time they were still on for 02:30.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/14/2009 02:21 am
I think Chris did away with the post that had the direct link to the video feed.  That was on-topic and a great find that is more about this launch than about media players.  So I'll stubbornly repost it and risk facing the wrath of moderation:

http://bglive-a.bitgravity.com/spacex/highquality/native
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:21 am
Now about 10 minutes until launch, still nothing.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: braddock on 07/14/2009 02:21 am
twitter chatter says GO t-40 min.  make of it what you will.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: tobi453 on 07/14/2009 02:22 am
Launch is now planned for 03:00 GMT.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:23 am
Interesting the amount of secrecy here compared to Elon's past efforts.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Andrewwski on 07/14/2009 02:23 am
twitter chatter says GO t-40 min.  make of it what you will.

What's the twitter URL?

Most sense I could make of it would be they are go and at T-40...making launch just after 8 PM PDT?  Assuming no holds...

That's a guess anyway.  Not a lot of info to work with here.  :-\
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:23 am
twitter chatter says GO t-40 min.  make of it what you will.

Do you have a URL for that?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: braddock on 07/14/2009 02:24 am
http://twitter.com/brutelkerek
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:28 am
Seems like a reputable source but SpaceX site still claims a 7:30PDT launch
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 02:29 am
Heard the only delay so far has been having to replace a leaky ground helium valve.  The delay took longer than expected is why the move from 2Z to 3Z.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:30 am
webcast starts:
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:30 am
and here we go
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 07/14/2009 02:30 am
Webcast is live.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:31 am
First images.... confirming 8PDT launch... says commentary shortly.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:31 am
Webcast started
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kq6ea on 07/14/2009 02:31 am
Just went live!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:31 am
t-minus 30 minutes. looks much better than KSC
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 02:31 am
The amount if information witheld is ridiculous. I expected things to become more open and streamlined after flight 4, not the exact opposite. It's as if they're doing this out of spite.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 02:32 am
I think Chris did away with the post that had the direct link to the video feed.  That was on-topic and a great find that is more about this launch than about media players.  So I'll stubbornly repost it and risk facing the wrath of moderation:

http://bglive-a.bitgravity.com/spacex/highquality/native

Na, I copied it across :)  I was just annoyed with getting endless e-mails complaining about the media player posts.

Way hey, we have launch coverage!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:32 am
Ascension Island green.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:32 am
Ascension Island tracking station is go
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:33 am
Pad crew clear of the pad. (I assume after fixing the faulty valve that Antares mentioned)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:33 am
Pad crew has taken cover.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 02:33 am
Crew has reached shelter
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:34 am
Initiating LOX topping
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:35 am
LOX topping is nominal on both stages
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:37 am
100.7% on stage 1 LOX.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:37 am
possible weather constraint and possible hold at T-15 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:37 am
Weather is a constraint, hold at T-15 mins is likely.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:38 am
Stage 1 and 2 fill-and-drain cycling complete and normal.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:38 am
Rocket is fully fuelled.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:38 am
That weather sure gets around.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:39 am
no lightening or thunderstorms... just rain forcast
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:39 am
No thunderstorms in the area.

Makes a welcome change...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:39 am
Not thunderstorms as posited by LC, just rain showers.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:39 am
Though report is of no thundershower.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:39 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:39 am
T- 22 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:40 am
RCO is having communication problems.

EDIT: Fixed.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:40 am
Range is green.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:40 am
Range go at this time.

Sounds like the LC was about to sneeze...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: gladiator1332 on 07/14/2009 02:40 am
safety green
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:41 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but LC is El Segundo, correct?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:41 am
Winds green.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:41 am
T-20 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 02:41 am
Did anyone happen to catch the comment about propellant temperatures in the background?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:41 am
T-20 minutes and counting.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:41 am
Did anyone happen to catch the comment about propellant temperatures in the background?

I think he said that they were in limits through to the end of the window.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: TrueBlueWitt on 07/14/2009 02:42 am
I really wish they'd kill the huge banner across the screen! I want to see the whole LV!

edit:  Post number 500 :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:42 am
Did anyone happen to catch the comment about propellant temperatures in the background?

Yeah, think he said "they will remain above our minimum temps through the window". So that is a good thing.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 02:42 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:43 am
T- 18 minutes and counting
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Almurray1958 on 07/14/2009 02:43 am
Did anyone happen to catch the comment about propellant temperatures in the background?

didn't catch it all,

Based on current  conditions, expect fuel temps to be at maximum throughout the window
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:43 am
Weather predicted red at T-0
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: yg1968 on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
I wish the "live RazakSAT" banner wouldn't take so much of the screen on the webcast video.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
Weather expected to be READ at T-0 - expected to be Green at 15:30
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ST47 on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
weather will be red at 1500 local, green 1530
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
Weather forecast to be red at 1500 but green at 1530. (I assume local time)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kq6ea on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
Weather expected to be green at 15:30, but going into a hold at 15:00
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: amon on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
If there is someone at SpaceX here, could you request the banner be taken off of the rocket image?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
Hold at T-15, new launch time is 03:35 due to weather and COLAs.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
Holding at T-15 mins. L-45 minutes. Red weather (where have we heard that before!)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:44 am
Weather reported as red... Expected to be green at 8:35PDT which is our new launch time.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:46 am
T-15 minutes and holding, L-50 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:46 am
T-15 and holding.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:46 am
T-15 minutes and HOLDING
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 02:46 am
Holding at T-15 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:46 am
T-15:00 and holding due to weather, the banner is too big!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 02:47 am
The hold timer is increasing?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:48 am
Someone must have read your post... the banner has been removed!!  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ckiki lwai on 07/14/2009 02:48 am
Hurray the banner is gone!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:48 am
LOX topping continuing.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:49 am
LOX topping normal in both stages.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Lee Jay on 07/14/2009 02:49 am
Holding at T-15 mins. L-45 minutes. Red weather (where have we heard that before!)

That annoying storm at KSC really hauled butt to get over to Kwaj in time for this launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: chawleysnow on 07/14/2009 02:49 am
The hold timer is increasing?

A "+" here, a "-" there...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jeff Bingham on 07/14/2009 02:50 am
wow...ask and ye shall receive, on the banner! Understandably, their customer might want to see it briefly flashed again a time or two, but it's nice to see the full view of the vehicle. Go Falcon!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: dragon44 on 07/14/2009 02:50 am
Hurray the banner is gone!

I emailed Branden. Don't know if he removed it or if adding the hold clock changed it. I guess we'll see when the hold clock disappears.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: rdale on 07/14/2009 02:51 am
Radar loop - http://www.rts-wx.com/radar/loops/CAPPI_Z_150.shtml

Current obs - http://www.rts-wx.com/obs/surface/metars/translated.shtml

Upperair map (balloon launch) - http://www.rts-wx.com/obs/ua/skewt.shtml
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:51 am
you can really see the cloud deck, but as long as there isnt any lightning I think we will be fine:
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: gladiator1332 on 07/14/2009 02:51 am
Man it was blue skies a few minutes ago!!! I think the sun is camera shy today :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:53 am
I have to admit,,, this is the way I like to watch a launch - controller chatter and focused camera's on the vehicle... no talking heads trying to fill time needlessly...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: daver on 07/14/2009 02:54 am
Here is another feed.  It didn't have the banner.  I found the link on the twitter link posted earlier. http://www.atsb.my/
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris-A on 07/14/2009 02:54 am
Found the weather radar
http://www.rts-wx.com/radar/latest_images/CAPPI_Z_150.shtml

Edit: ops, sorry :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 02:54 am
SpaceX can't afford talking heads.  'Course, NASA probably shouldn't.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: gladiator1332 on 07/14/2009 02:55 am
3:20 local to come out of the hold


spoke too soon on the talking heads  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: grakenverb on 07/14/2009 02:55 am
I'm sitting in my favorite chair, checking weather in the SOUTH PACIFIC in real time and watching LIVE images of a rocket about to blast off.  WELCOME TO THE FUTURE, lads and lassies.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 02:55 am
Hold will be released at 03:20 for launch at 03:35
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:55 am
I have to admit,,, this is the way I like to watch a launch - controller chatter and focused camera's on the vehicle... no talking heads trying to fill time needlessly...

I spoke too soon :(
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:55 am
Cassie sounds excited
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:55 am
SpaceX PAO on.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 02:56 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: rdale on 07/14/2009 02:57 am
Found the weather radar
http://www.rts-wx.com/radar/latest_images/CAPPI_Z_150.shtml

Looks familiar ;)

Radar loop - http://www.rts-wx.com/radar/loops/CAPPI_Z_150.shtml

Current obs - http://www.rts-wx.com/obs/surface/metars/translated.shtml

Upperair map (balloon launch) - http://www.rts-wx.com/obs/ua/skewt.shtml
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 02:58 am
Looks like rain at the pad now.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:58 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 02:58 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 02:58 am
Few slides about the sat:

Target altitude 685km alt at 9 degrees.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 02:59 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 02:59 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: amon on 07/14/2009 02:59 am
I am sure she is! She was excited about the new job the last time I saw her even. I'm glad to hear her on the air.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:00 am
definitely raining now...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 03:00 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:00 am
Her Malay pronunciation is terrible (not really her fault). But she's enthusiastic so that's nice.  :D
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:01 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:01 am
304 sec Isp and about 78K lbs of thrust from the main engine.

Also I heard LOX topping is still going well.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:02 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:02 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:02 am
First stage batteries are fully charged.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Comga on 07/14/2009 03:03 am
Did Max just say that the delay between the first stage MECO and second stage ignition is four seconds?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:04 am
Weather not looking so hot at the moment.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: just-nick on 07/14/2009 03:04 am
RCO sounds like he's eating a sandwich.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 03:05 am
Did Max just say that the delay between the first stage MECO and second stage ignition is four seconds?

First stage separation and Kestrel ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:05 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:06 am
About half an hour away from launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 03:06 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:06 am
The darkest part of the sky seems to be moving off now... sky getting a bit lighter
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/14/2009 03:07 am
Hope the camera dry's off before flight ... Can you imagine sending someone out to clean the camera. Though, they do seem to be taking NSF suggestions tonight :D
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:07 am
Weather briefing at 15 past hour and a probably pickup of the count at 20 past.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Swatch on 07/14/2009 03:07 am
Send somebody out to clean off the lens!

Bummer, we're gonna end up with a subpar launch vid cuz of the H2O. :(


Looks like a weather briefing 10 min before scheduled countdown pickup.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ST47 on 07/14/2009 03:08 am
Planned count resume at 0320 from T-15. Wx briefing at 0315, don't know if it will be streamed.

Add me to the list of people wanting a clean camera. Hey, they got rid of the banner for us! :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:09 am
Send somebody out to clean off the lens!

Bummer, we're gonna end up with a subpar launch vid cuz of the H2O. :(


Looks like a weather briefing 10 min before scheduled countdown pickup.

Hopefully there'll be a camera on the rocket to make up for it. There has been on all four previous flights. The vibrations from launch shake off most of the water.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:09 am
Planned count resume at 0320 from T-15. Wx briefing at 0315, don't know if it will be streamed.

Add me to the list of people wanting a clean camera. Hey, they got rid of the banner for us! :)

considering it is on an island, I hope they employ Olympic class oarsmen.....
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 03:09 am
Send somebody out to clean off the lens!

Bummer, we're gonna end up with a subpar launch vid cuz of the H2O. :(


Looks like a weather briefing 10 min before scheduled countdown pickup.

Drops are all migrating slowly, we will be good.  (This should be a RainX commercial).
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: grakenverb on 07/14/2009 03:09 am
Perhaps LV will clear the lens on liftoff. 
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:11 am
Malaysian flag on the left, American on the right
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: dragon44 on 07/14/2009 03:11 am
Perhaps LV will clear the lens on liftoff. 

Branden just changed views. The enclosure doesn't have a wiper blade.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:11 am
Send somebody out to clean off the lens!

Bummer, we're gonna end up with a subpar launch vid cuz of the H2O. :(


Looks like a weather briefing 10 min before scheduled countdown pickup.

Hopefully there'll be a camera on the rocket to make up for it. There has been on all four previous flights. The vibrations from launch shake off most of the water.

Ecliptic Enterprises' website (manufacturer of RocketCams) doesn't show Falcon on their schedule. (though SpaceX might have their own home-grown system instead)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ST47 on 07/14/2009 03:11 am
Lol, ron. I thought I saw a map of the island in the Falcon I user's manual, and there appeared to be some launch support buildings on the island itself.

But they did manage to find a dry camera angle!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:12 am
Fuel LOX and Helium all holding at 100%
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:12 am
Send somebody out to clean off the lens!

Bummer, we're gonna end up with a subpar launch vid cuz of the H2O. :(


Looks like a weather briefing 10 min before scheduled countdown pickup.

Hopefully there'll be a camera on the rocket to make up for it. There has been on all four previous flights. The vibrations from launch shake off most of the water.

Ecliptic Enterprises' website (manufacturer of RocketCams) doesn't show Falcon on their schedule. (though SpaceX might have their own home-grown system instead)

I think SpaceX have their own system. None of the other Falcons were listed as RocketCam missions.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:14 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:15 am
Should I keep posting pictures?

I have it, just post if I miss something (but thanks for the help)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: gladiator1332 on 07/14/2009 03:15 am
hey i see blue sky!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:15 am
Some blue sky showing in the top right picture... looks like weather won't be a mission killer today...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:15 am
Fuel temperatures are still go.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:15 am
Fuel temps have good margin to limits.

Looks like blue skies are heading towards the pad - a good sign.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: grakenverb on 07/14/2009 03:16 am
Send somebody out to clean off the lens!

Bummer, we're gonna end up with a subpar launch vid cuz of the H2O. :(


Looks like a weather briefing 10 min before scheduled countdown pickup.

Hopefully there'll be a camera on the rocket to make up for it. There has been on all four previous flights. The vibrations from launch shake off most of the water.

Ecliptic Enterprises' website (manufacturer of RocketCams) doesn't show Falcon on their schedule. (though SpaceX might have their own home-grown system instead)

I think SpaceX have their own system. None of the other Falcons were listed as RocketCam missions.


I sure hope so...............  only reason I'm sitting in front of the laptop when I should be sleeping
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:16 am
Posted July 13, 2009 - 20:15 PDT

Three small logos on the Falcon 1 today--ATSB, MOSTI and Angkasa. ATSB, Astronautic Technology Sdn Bhdm is our customer, MOSTI is the Ministry of Science Technology and Innovation and Angkasa, the Malaysian Space Agency.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:17 am
weather update
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:17 am
Weather briefing underway on the "Met Net".
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:18 am
Briefing completed
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:18 am
count to start in 3 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:19 am
Weather briefing complete it sounds. Green at T-0.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:19 am
Weather is green, picking up the count in 3 minutes for 03:35.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:19 am
L-18 minutes now.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:20 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Swatch on 07/14/2009 03:20 am
That camera is gonna make me seasick...

Must be windy there... anybody got the wind numbers?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:21 am
T-15 minutes and counting
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:21 am
T-15 minutes and counting.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:21 am
Hold released, T-15 minutes and counting.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:21 am
Polling in work.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:21 am
Polling underway for terminal count.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:22 am
All stations are ready.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 03:22 am
It's gotta work - the CE is German. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:23 am
Polling in work.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:23 am
All stations are go for launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:23 am
Polling is GO! LD clear for launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:24 am
As per usual, let's keep the chatter down during the last few mins of the count and ascent.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kq6ea on 07/14/2009 03:24 am
Yep, getting down to the point where the hair on the back of your neck starts to rise!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:26 am
T-10 minutes.

Automatic sequence start.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:26 am
T- 10 Minute  - Terminal count phase
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:26 am
T-10 minutes and counting. In the terminal count.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:26 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:27 am
Pump chill started.
TTBs to internal.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:27 am
FTS on internal.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:27 am
"Strongback" retracting.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:28 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:28 am
strongback down:
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:28 am
Strongback retraction complete
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:29 am
FTS checks underway.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:29 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:29 am
Self-align running.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 03:29 am
Question for later: why are there 3 LOX vents?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:30 am
Self-align in progress (I assume for the INS)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 03:30 am
Question for later: why are there 3 LOX vents?

engine chilldown?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: UprightCitizen on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
Question for later: why are there 3 LOX vents?

We were discussing this in the IRC chat that I am in right now too. We are all wondering the same thing and if anyone has an answer, I'm interested in hearing as well.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
Cassie - "We'd like to wish the best of luck to NASA on their launch of STS-127"
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
Question for later: why are there 3 LOX vents?

Vents at:
1st stage.
Interstage.
2nd stage.

Nice touch by Cassie about STS-127. You wouldn't get that from Virgin Galatic.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: UprightCitizen on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
T-5 minutes and counting
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
range is red
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
Range is red
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
Range RED!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:31 am
Letting clocks roll.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 03:32 am
And they don't stop the count. Range ETRO 30 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:32 am
Sounds like they're trying to fix it without aborting the terminal count.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:32 am
Sounds like a transient red, should be green by T-0?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:32 am
Battery heaters stopping.
Helium load stopping.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Hydraulic pressure set.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Hydraulic pressure set.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Posted July 13, 2009 - 20:31 PDT

Vehicle has already seen wet dress rehersal and static fire in April.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
T-3 minutes and counting, range still red.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: UprightCitizen on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Question for later: why are there 3 LOX vents?

Vents at:
1st stage.
Interstage.
2nd stage.

Nice touch by Cassie about STS-127. You wouldn't get that from Virgin Galatic.

Thanks for explaination Chris.

Also, agree with you about Virgin and the congrats to STS-127. Never would hear that from a Virgin launch! ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Ignition enabled.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Is the Range run by the Army?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Swatch on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Sounded like Redmon(?) froze.... perhaps they run Windoze

Only 30 seconds to recheck, so probably not bad they kept count running.

Redmon was recycled... range is GREEN!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Range is green
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: UprightCitizen on 07/14/2009 03:33 am
Range is green
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:34 am
LOX topping complete, configuring ground LOX system for liftoff
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:34 am
Range recycle, allowing count to continue. Would have been an abort at 1min 45 second otherwise.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:34 am
T-2 mins
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:34 am
Less than 2 minutes to go.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:34 am
T-90 seconds

SpaceX is green
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
Internal sequence started
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
Ok, normal launch coverage people from now until through ascent please. Keeps the duplicates down.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
Range green.

Vehicle on internal power.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
Range is green, on internal power, heaters stopped
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
T-60 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
T-60 seconds.

Go Falcon!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:35 am
T-30 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
Water on
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
Images required!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
T-10 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
Liftoff
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
LIFTOFF!! GO FALCON GO!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: arachnitect on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
Go SpaceX!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:36 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
Supersonic at T+60 seconds.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
Max-Q
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
500 m/s
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:37 am
Through MaxQ.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:38 am
Past Max-Q
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:38 am
T+90 seconds looks nominal first stage.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:38 am
Velocity 830 m/sec, altitude 30 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:38 am
T+120 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:38 am
1300 m/s, 38 km up
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:38 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
38km altitude passing T+120 seconds.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Reducing AoA for MECO.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Trimming alpha in preparation for MECO
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Staging
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
MECO! Good 1-2 sep!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Kestrel ignition confirmed
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Good 1-2 sep. Staging.

Second stage ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Second stage start!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Fairing Sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:39 am
Fairing sep
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:40 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:40 am
Stiffening bands gone
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:40 am
Kestrel stiffening bands have separated.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:40 am
4 minutes into the launch
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:40 am
Altitude 172 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:40 am
2nd stage propulsion is nominal.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
192km up
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
T+4:30, 3200 m/sec.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
recording attempt failed on my end
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
Nozzle getting quite hot there...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
Smooth sailing again, no visible slosh at all.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
T+5
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
Nominal second stage flight.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:41 am
Still nominal
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:42 am
3600 m/sec velocity at 230km altitude. Officially in space.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 03:42 am
Looked like 1st stage roll oscillation like the last flight.  Also looked like pitching at MECO 1/2 sep.  Couldn't tell if there was recontact or not.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:42 am
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:43 am
4150m/sec at 255 km altitude.

About 2.5 mins until SECO.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: arachnitect on 07/14/2009 03:43 am
Alt: 260 Km.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kraisee on 07/14/2009 03:44 am
Look at that nozzle glow...

Ross.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:44 am
38 minute coast phase between first and second burns
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:44 am
I assume that's just the exhaust.

4800 m/sec at 265 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:44 am
T+8 mins
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:44 am
Pad safed.

5400 m/sec at 267 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:44 am
Pad safing completed
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:45 am
Expecting TM dropout soon.

Altitude 266 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
TM and video dropping out.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
SECO
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
SECO:
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
Nominal LOS
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
SECO!

Now in parking orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
still wallows around
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
End of webcast.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: floron on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
that was beautiful ^_^
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Zachstar on 07/14/2009 03:46 am
Ending the webcast? What?!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Naito on 07/14/2009 03:47 am
They made it!!!! CONGRATS SPACEX!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: bad_astra on 07/14/2009 03:47 am
I just want to say WOW
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ford Mustang on 07/14/2009 03:47 am
They made it!!!! CONGRATS SPACEX!!!

Not done yet.  Still have to re-fire the engine and separate the payload.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: vt_hokie on 07/14/2009 03:47 am
Wow, well that was pretty neat! 
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/14/2009 03:47 am
Woot party at Elron's!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:47 am
Well done everyone with the launch coverage, that worked out nicely.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: gladiator1332 on 07/14/2009 03:48 am
Well that could not have gone any smoother
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: grakenverb on 07/14/2009 03:48 am
Godspeed, SpaceX!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Graham on 07/14/2009 03:48 am
They made it!!!! CONGRATS SPACEX!!!

Still about 40 minutes and another burn until S/C separation. Don't count your chickens before they've hatched.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 03:48 am
They made it!!!! CONGRATS SPACEX!!!

No patting of back until relight, and start up of RazakSAT
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mjcrsmith on 07/14/2009 03:48 am
Congrats to SpaceX.  Really liked the video from the launch vehicle.

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: floron on 07/14/2009 03:49 am
Woot party at Elron's!

and then on to Elon's! woo! ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 03:49 am
Remember everyone, restart and sep is still to come (not that we're going to see it) so this is not a completed mission yet.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 03:49 am
Hold your congratulations everyone, they still have a ways to go. But good job to them so far! :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kraisee on 07/14/2009 03:49 am
There seemed to be a slight oscillation on the Upper Stage burn.   I'm guessing that was all still 'nominal' though.

And was it me, or did that US also seem to burn longer than they thought?   I wonder what that was about...

Either way, nicely done by the looks of it Space-X!

Ross.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: duane on 07/14/2009 03:49 am
Never gets old watching any launch. Always waiting with baited breath hoping it wont blow up !!!! 

Good going. Now lets see you guys get a F9 up without incident!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 03:50 am
They could have at least let us know how close to the target parking orbit they got.

Looked good so far, but that wobbling made me nervous.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jaythehokie on 07/14/2009 03:51 am
am i wrong or has there not been a successful re-firing of the Kestrel engine before?  More uncharted territory to forge through before builiding on that reputation Launch 4 gained the company...

Best of luck to SpaceX!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jeff Bingham on 07/14/2009 03:51 am
Will they do a rebroadcast of the launch video at some point?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: duane on 07/14/2009 03:52 am
am i wrong or has there not been a successful re-firing of the Kestrel engine before?  More uncharted territory to forge through before builiding on that reputation Launch 4 gained the company...

Best of luck to SpaceX!!
It was refired on flight 4
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 07/14/2009 03:52 am
am i wrong or has there not been a successful re-firing of the Kestrel engine before?  More uncharted territory to forge through before builiding on that reputation Launch 4 gained the company...

Best of luck to SpaceX!!

They did on flight 4 to test the relight
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: rsnellenberger on 07/14/2009 03:52 am
am i wrong or has there not been a successful re-firing of the Kestrel engine before?  More uncharted territory to forge through before builiding on that reputation Launch 4 gained the company...

Best of luck to SpaceX!!
I'm pretty sure they fired the Kestrel back up on the last flight...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: daver on 07/14/2009 03:52 am
WTG SpaceX :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Peter NASA on 07/14/2009 03:52 am
I would have liked it, for confidence, for them to show second stage's second burn.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 03:52 am
am i wrong or has there not been a successful re-firing of the Kestrel engine before?  More uncharted territory to forge through before builiding on that reputation Launch 4 gained the company...

Best of luck to SpaceX!!

Relight was completed on the last launch
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: vt_hokie on 07/14/2009 03:53 am

Looked good so far, but that wobbling made me nervous.

Me too...more oscillation than I expected pretty much throughout the entire launch!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: R.Simko on 07/14/2009 03:53 am
YEEEEEHAAAAAA, Way to go SpaceX.   Looks like 2 in a row.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jaythehokie on 07/14/2009 03:54 am
okay... I guess I missed it on the webcast... everyone was so excited they acheived orbit for the first time i guess it kinda got lost in the shuffle.  no worries!  Go SpaceX!! Go RazakSAT!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/14/2009 03:54 am
Will they do a rebroadcast of the launch video at some point?

It should show up on their website.  My live feed kept freezing and restarting minutes ahead of where it was.  Very buggy stream here.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/14/2009 03:55 am
I would have liked it, for confidence, for them to show second stage's second burn.

Wonder if they would have any telemetry for the second burn, sounds like it will be half way arround the world over africa when the burn occurs.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 03:55 am
hands up on who is staying up to see when they let us know how second stage reignition goes? :)
well done so far Spacex..
jb
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: DaveS on 07/14/2009 03:57 am
I would have liked it, for confidence, for them to show second stage's second burn.

Wonder if they would have any telemetry for the second burn, sounds like it will be half way arround the world over africa when the burn occurs.
Second burn should be over Ascension Island.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:57 am
I would have liked it, for confidence, for them to show second stage's second burn.

Wonder if they would have any telemetry for the second burn, sounds like it will be half way arround the world over africa when the burn occurs.

flight 4 had telemetry and 3-4 seconds of video of the restart. I would imagine they would want to get that data confirmed for their customer as soon as it occurs.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Andrewwski on 07/14/2009 03:58 am
I have video recorded, it's going to take me a little while to get it up as it was one weird feed.  Check the video section later.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/14/2009 03:58 am

Let's see, awake at work in the morning and keeping job, vs. this ... Tough choice... Way to go spaceX. Good launch.

Now if they read NSF, next launch at a reasonable hour for us east coasters ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 04:01 am
Well congrats on what looked like a very routine F1 flight (if two succesful flights qualifies as routine).. I must say I miss the cheering crowd back at SpaceX.. I always thought that added some fun and emotion to these events.. This launch was a bit more anticeptic.. just glad it made it ok... (pending second burn and satellite release of course)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/14/2009 04:02 am
It didn't seem to wobble any more than on flight 4.  Does it really wobble more than other launch vehicles, or does SpaceX simply give us a better view of the wobbling than other launch providers?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cd-slam on 07/14/2009 04:05 am

Let's see, awake at work in the morning and keeping job, vs. this ... Tough choice... Way to go spaceX. Good launch.

Now if they read NSF, next launch at a reasonable hour for us east coasters ;)
Hey, it was just nicely before lunch for their paying customers...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: scotty125 on 07/14/2009 04:06 am
I'd have loved to see an external shot of staging...those looked like some pretty hairy oscillations.  The hunting during the second stage burn reminded me a lot of the DAC films taken during LM ascent, especially right before cutoff.  I think Ross was right...it seemed like the second stage burned about 25 seconds longer than predicted.

Pretty cool video...I'm of the opinion NASA needs to hang a few more cameras on their vehicles, including shuttle.  I haven't met anyone that doesn't get fired up when they see a good on-board shot, whether they give a tinker's cuss about spaceflight or not!  The DIRECT guys might want to pick some good camera angles and design 'em in right from the start, rather than depending on just engineering views...got to get the constituency fired up!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 04:06 am
It wobbled just as much as flight 4 during 2nd stage burn, but at different times. Flight 4 wobbled for some 45 secs starting with about T+05:30 and then Kestrel coughed up something that required the guidance to compensate, also killing the wobble. Around SECO it was very stable. This flight wasn't nearly as stable when SECO was called, but was stable earlier.

Interestingly, Kestrel also burped at around the same time as the last time - an ablative chamber "feature"?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/14/2009 04:07 am
Intuitively I would say it looks, and is wobbly just because it's a small rocket. Smaller oscillations would have greater effect on it with it's one engine. I'm no aerospace engineer though, perhaps someone knows a better explanation.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jorge on 07/14/2009 04:12 am

Pretty cool video...I'm of the opinion NASA needs to hang a few more cameras on their vehicles, including shuttle.

Seven cameras (not even counting onboard) isn't enough for you?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:14 am
One theory is asymmetric coking on an RP engine at low pressure and low MR.

Edit: anyone recall how much longer than expected the first burn was on flight 4?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 04:16 am
mmm..Anyone know how/when we will know that the circular burn and S/C separation worked?  I'm thinking it should be happening soon if I understood what they said during the web cast.
jb
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 04:16 am
Antares, any inside info on the initial orbital parameters?

They left that one hanging in the air, as far as we know it could have underperformed and yet there's cheering here. I dunno, I'd like to put that concern to bed. And myself...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 04:18 am
I think they changed the timing of the "stiffening band" seperation on this flight. Seems like last flight it was before fairing sep and now its after. Anybody else notice this?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:18 am
My guess: this orbit is nominal.  It should shut down on guidance.  The question would be if there's enough propellant left onboard to make the mission orbit, if the first burn was long as Ross and Scotty125 observe.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:19 am
I think they changed the timing of the "stiffening band" seperation on this flight. Seems like before it was before fairing sep and now its after. Anybody else notice this?

It just melts off like the RL10B-2
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/14/2009 04:20 am
Intuitively I would say it looks, and is wobbly just because it's a small rocket. Smaller oscillations would have greater effect on it with it's one engine. I'm no aerospace engineer though, perhaps someone knows a better explanation.

The on-board camera must be using an extremely wide angle lens.  This would magnify oscillation effects I think. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: scotty125 on 07/14/2009 04:22 am
True, but only a couple are live feeds...the SRB cameras produce some interesting footage, but the lenses are subject to contamination from the plumes as soon as they start to tumble, or at least the early ones were.

There's no better PAO event than a live launch with great footage, save maybe a lunar EVA... :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: R.Simko on 07/14/2009 04:22 am
It sounded to me like the engine restart would be at about 12:30 AM  Eastern Standard Time.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/14/2009 04:23 am
My guess: this orbit is nominal.  It should shut down on guidance.  The question would be if there's enough propellant left onboard to make the mission orbit, if the first burn was long as Ross and Scotty125 observe.

The Flight 4 SECO1 was expected to be 9 m 39 sec.  This one was at 9 m 40 sec or so. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 04:23 am
Wasn't it only a 30 minute coast?

It sounded to me like the engine restart would be at about 12:30 AM  Eastern Standard Time.

Ah right, let's see how fast they turn around news on s/c sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jongoff on 07/14/2009 04:24 am
Wasn't it only a 30 minute coast?

Yeah, I thought they said 28min.

~Jon
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 04:24 am
I heard 39 min? Oh well.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jongoff on 07/14/2009 04:26 am
I heard 39 min? Oh well.

If so, that would place it about now.  I wonder if they're going to do any updates on their webcast page.  They have those notes down below the actual webcast screen...

~Jon
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/14/2009 04:27 am
I heard 39 min? Oh well.

I noted a 38 minute coast according to the webcast announcer. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/14/2009 04:29 am
Not seeing any vids of the launch online yet.. oh, where's John44???
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Andrewwski on 07/14/2009 04:31 am
This has been one he** of a stream to record.  There's a few of us that have been working on it and have some sort of recording - now it's figuring out how to make that into a playable file.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nascent Ascent on 07/14/2009 04:31 am
What is the purpose of the stiffening band and why is it jettisoned?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: braddock on 07/14/2009 04:31 am
Will it take time for them to verify the final orbit?  Does that require multiple observations, or is it instantaneous?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 04:33 am
They had final orbital information very quickly on flight 4.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/14/2009 04:33 am
Other news sites reporting that the burn "should have" taken place and the spacecraft "should have" separated by now as the vehicle "should" be in range of the ground stations in the Atlantic by now... We'll (as usual) have actual confirmation here first, I'll wager!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:34 am
What is the purpose of the stiffening band and why is it jettisoned?

1st stage loads, and it's unneeded during second stage flight.  Same as RL10B-2
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nate_Trost on 07/14/2009 04:34 am
Just looked at the flight 4 video, it was a bit hard to tell with the video breakup, but SECO on flight 5 looks like at *most* 3-4 seconds more than flight 4 based on the +mission time overlay.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/14/2009 04:34 am
Will it take time for them to verify the final orbit?  Does that require multiple observations, or is it instantaneous?

The on-board guidance system should give them an instantaneous number, if they have good telemetry at the time (it appeared they did). 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 04:35 am
"Payload separation and 2nd stage relight confirmed!!"

http://twitter.com/wakeUpEarly
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/14/2009 04:36 am
*applause*

!!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/14/2009 04:36 am
"Payload separation and 2nd stage relight confirmed!!"

http://twitter.com/wakeUpEarly

AWESOME NEWS!  I was expecting we'd see it here first!  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:37 am
"Payload separation and 2nd stage relight confirmed!!"

http://twitter.com/wakeUpEarly

Hopefully in the opposite order ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 04:38 am
I just hope he got that backward
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 04:38 am
cool...hope the news is correct!!!
BTW who is wakeupoearly?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/14/2009 04:39 am
Is there a second stage deorbit burn?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 04:41 am
"Payload separation and 2nd stage relight confirmed!!"

http://twitter.com/wakeUpEarly

Errrr, but who is that?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: braddock on 07/14/2009 04:41 am
This internet thing is getting out of hand....from the floor of HQ (presumably):
http://img268.yfrog.com/i/8tk.jpg/
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: R.Simko on 07/14/2009 04:41 am
Good work SpaceX.   Let's hope Falcon 9 flight 1 is every bit as successfull.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/14/2009 04:41 am
Is there a second stage deorbit burn?

AFAIK, the 2nd stage doesn't have TPS or plans for recovery (I believe it was MUsk who said that F9's second stage was planned for eventual recovery FYI).  I'm not sure if there's a deorbit burn to destroy the stage once it's been used.  Seems a waste of extra fuel for a first operational flight.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 04:41 am
cool...hope the news is correct!!!
BTW who is wakeupoearly?

My best guess is he works for SpaceX, at LC40.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 04:44 am
This is way too tinpot for my liking. I'd want to see official confirmation.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:44 am
Depletion burn (or blowdown) will most likely be out of plane to change the inclination.  Less of a chance of collision in that case.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: blazotron on 07/14/2009 04:45 am
Update here:
http://img268.yfrog.com/i/8tk.jpg/
now says nominal 2nd stage burn and sep complete.  Not sure who it is, though.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: soldeed on 07/14/2009 04:45 am
Is the satellite alive?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 04:45 am
This is way too tinpot for my liking. I'd want to see official confirmation.
I'm with you Chris... I hate.."but I read it on twitter"...
but I'm still hoping its true. :)
jb

edit..pics look like a party at Hawthorn? (sp?)  so maybe Elon gave them the good news
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 04:46 am
Ok, it's confirmed (a top NASA guy who deals with them confirmed it to me, and he's one of my sources, so it's as confirmed as it gets bar a press release :))

Congrats SpaceX!

And thanks for everyone's patience with the coverage on this thread. It was getting a bit out of control, so there was some housekeeping required, but everyone got with the program when we most needed it, so you all have my thanks, especially those that contributed to the coverage.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/14/2009 04:47 am
Surprised there isn't an "official" news release yet.. probably just crossing the "t"s and dotting the "i"s...


EDIT: just saw Chris' post... that's good enough for me!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 04:47 am
WELL DONE..
Now to bed and have my kids wake me in 5 hours lol
jb
edit:Can't wait to read what Spacex has to say about it... :)
and lets hope some HD clips are out on the web somewhere so I have some morning Videos to watch with my son...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 04:49 am
Surprised there isn't an "official" news release yet.. probably just crossing the "t"s and dotting the "i"s...

And poppin' the tops...go SpaceX
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jimvela on 07/14/2009 04:49 am
Ok, it's confirmed (a top NASA guy who deals with them confirmed it to me :))
Congrats SpaceX!

Agreed.  Congratulations SpaceX!

F1 finally put a paying payload into orbit. 

Lets hope the payload is alive and healthy.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Hootz on 07/14/2009 04:50 am
Are correct orbital parameters implied by the SpaceX announcement?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 04:51 am
Chris, does that include healthy spacecraft?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 04:53 am
Spaceflightnow also has confirmation by a "SpaceX spokesperson".

Congratulations to all involved on what looked like a near-flawless launch. With little fanfare on this (almost to the point of looking like they're hiding something) and mostly in the shadow of STS-127 launch campain, they finally got this one done.

If I were to comment on the lack of any public and press info, I'd say it might have had something to do with certain accusations that tended to float around about them being all-hype and that they should "put their money where their mouth is". Hopefully, this success is just the beginning of a long succesful streak.

No doubt a confidence builder for the F9 campain.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2009 04:54 am
Chris, does that include healthy spacecraft?

No. Just a good second burn and good s/c sep, that's all I got.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 04:54 am
Congrats to SpaceX! Another great omen for their future. :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 04:55 am
here is a youtube clip

here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfdk_VZMjQI)
not sure quality or how to just post the link
jb
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: astronaut23 on 07/14/2009 04:57 am
Do the shuttle engines glow red like that on the way up.  Or do they have a better cooling system?   I know this is a one time use and throw away engine.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ApolloLee on 07/14/2009 05:02 am
As they would say in sports.... Space X is on the board! Many congrats.

The future is just beginning.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 05:05 am
Do the shuttle engines glow red like that on the way up.  Or do they have a better cooling system?   I know this is a one time use and throw away engine.

Shuttle engines HAVE a cooling system.  This one, like the RL10 and AJ10 for instance, has NO cooling system.  It just gets hot and radiates.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Damon Hill on 07/14/2009 05:05 am
Do the shuttle engines glow red like that on the way up.  Or do they have a better cooling system?   I know this is a one time use and throw away engine.

This engine is radiatively cooled and the glow is normal for that kind of design. 
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: JimO on 07/14/2009 05:06 am
I just checked the leading Malaysian newspapers and theres no news there yet.

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: blazotron on 07/14/2009 05:06 am
Do the shuttle engines glow red like that on the way up.  Or do they have a better cooling system?   I know this is a one time use and throw away engine.

There are three main types of cooling systems, regenerative (fuel passed through tubes making up chamber and nozzle walls to absorb heat, resulting in a low temperature nozzle), ablative (heat is absorbed by sacrificial material in the chamber/nozzle melting/vaporizing away), and radiative (heat is radiated from a glowing hot nozzle).  The SpaceX kestrel has a radiatively cooled nozzle, which is why it glows.  It basically heats up until the rate of heat loss to radiation is equal to the rate of heat addition from the combustion products.  The shuttle main engines (as well as the SpaceX Merlin C and later versions which power the first stage of Falcon use regenerative cooling and so stay at low temperature and do not glow.  The choice of radiatively cooled nozzle is not so much because it is throw away but because more complex systems are not not needed on the upper stage engines, so eliminating them reduces weight, increases performance, and lowers chance of malfunction. 
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: HMXHMX on 07/14/2009 05:07 am
Do the shuttle engines glow red like that on the way up.  Or do they have a better cooling system?   I know this is a one time use and throw away engine.

Shuttle engines HAVE a cooling system.  This one, like the RL10 and AJ10 for instance, has NO cooling system.  It just gets hot and radiates.

The RL-10 is regeneratively cooled to about 57:1 as I recall, and then radiatively cooled in the extended nozzle versions.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/14/2009 05:12 am
Shuttle engines HAVE a cooling system.  This one, like the RL10 and AJ10 for instance, has NO cooling system.  It just gets hot and radiates.
The RL-10 is regeneratively cooled to about 57:1 as I recall, and then radiatively cooled in the extended nozzle versions.

Yes, yes, was just trying to explain quickly for the new poster.  The radiative on the RL10 is often seen in rocket cams.  The regen part is essential to its power cycle, as we know.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: rumble on 07/14/2009 05:13 am
Congrats, SpaceX!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: A_M_Swallow on 07/14/2009 05:13 am
Well done SpaceX.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: soldeed on 07/14/2009 05:22 am
Well now that an official payload has been orbited perhaps some potential customers who may have been reluctant to commit  will now take the plunge. Or so I hope. Deploying a payload was the only undemonstrated thing space X had not yet done and now that they have I am completely confident in the falcons and expect the first F-9 flight to go off without a hitch, whenever it goes.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: astronaut23 on 07/14/2009 05:27 am
Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 05:30 am
From Spaceflight Now:

"We nailed the orbit to well within target parameters...pretty much a bullseye. Satellite has separated and is communicating with (the) ground," Musk said.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 05:33 am
Well now that an official payload has been orbited perhaps some potential customers who may have been reluctant to commit  will now take the plunge. Or so I hope. Deploying a payload was the only undemonstrated thing space X had not yet done and now that they have I am completely confident in the falcons and expect the first F-9 flight to go off without a hitch, whenever it goes.

There are plenty of things unique to the Falcon 9 that have not been proved out by the Falcon 1.  I would not be quite that confident.  We don't even know if the spacecraft survived, or if it's in the right orbit yet.  Either one means failure.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Hootz on 07/14/2009 05:34 am
..and with that, hearty congratulations to Elon and his whole team. WOW.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: G-pit on 07/14/2009 05:37 am
Quote from the launch updates:

"Second burn and satellite separation nominal. Falcon 1 has successfully deployed RazakSAT into the correct orbit."

Go SpaceX :-).
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: G-pit on 07/14/2009 05:40 am
So, how long until they can begin to check that the spacecraft is working properly? Hours or days?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/14/2009 05:44 am
From Spaceflight Now:

"We nailed the orbit to well within target parameters...pretty much a bullseye. Satellite has separated and is communicating with (the) ground," Musk said.

YES!  Congratulations to SpaceX, their staff, and Mr Musk.  The space industry has just changed...  a little.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/14/2009 05:50 am
So, how long until they can begin to check that the spacecraft is working properly? Hours or days?

Yeah I would guess that just because the satellite is communicating with the ground, doesn't mean that it's unharmed. That's why the launch was delayed in the first place, since they believed that the vibrations would cause damage.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: osiossim on 07/14/2009 06:08 am
Congratulations,

But there is no mass media news about the result and I could not even see the confirmation on ATSB's web site. Also, the video stream on SpaceX web site is not working and the youtube video finishes at 9 minutes 55 seconds.

I hope everything is allright.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: GI-Thruster on 07/14/2009 07:03 am
Congrats SpaceX!

Would be great to see an F9 fly this year.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Crispy on 07/14/2009 07:11 am
Great job SpaceX :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Bubbinski on 07/14/2009 07:15 am
Good work Space X.  Looking forward to seeing Falcon 9 go up now.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jimvela on 07/14/2009 07:22 am
So, how long until they can begin to check that the spacecraft is working properly? Hours or days?

If they survived launch without damage they probably know that by about now.  The rest of us might never really know.

Actual (operational) comissioning a spacecraft can take quite a long time, even if you're really well prepared.

All the really hard stuff remains-
+  Is your FSW really right?
+  How do you calibrate  your instrument?
+  How do you operationally execute- e.g. ground ops, scheduling, imaging methodology, addressing all of the little quirks of your spacecraft and instrument...
+  How do you get enough comm time to maximize data collection from the instrument?
+  Are your procedures for operations, anomaly resolution, table updating, FSW updates, etc actually right?

It could be that they're busy as hell right now- it's do or die time for the S/C and its systems.  I've seen teams deal with life-or-death issues for spacecraft immediately after launch.  A great team deals with issues, a poor team stands around and watches helplessly as the s/c dies.

We might know if a few days or weeks some of those details...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: pippin on 07/14/2009 07:38 am
Do the shuttle engines glow red like that on the way up.  Or do they have a better cooling system?   I know this is a one time use and throw away engine.
If you want to see a _really_ glowing hot engine bell watch out for Ariane 1-4 launch vids. They had radiation cooled 1st stage engines.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Kaputnik on 07/14/2009 10:01 am
Had to go to bed last night, have skipped the last 25 pages, great news, well done to everyone at SpaceX!!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: thomson on 07/14/2009 11:22 am
Congratulations, SpaceX!

I've seen the webcast (replay actually, it was around 4am in Europe) and there seems to be kind of outburst at T+0:0:33. What is that?

Theoretical question: if RazakSAT was damaged during launch (e.g. due to excessive vibrations), will SpaceX get paid? During other commercial launches (by other companies, of course), was there a case when payload was delivered, but somehow damaged during delivery? How such case was dealt with?

Don't get me wrong. I wish SpaceX the very best. I just want to make sure that this indeed is a complete success, no a 99% almost-success :) It's almost to good to be true.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 11:27 am
I've seen the webcast (replay actually, it was around 4am in Europe) and there seems to be kind of outburst at T+0:0:33. What is that?

Vehicle punching through a cloud layer.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: wannamoonbase on 07/14/2009 11:28 am
Congrats to SpaceX.  I hope this helps land more paying payloads.

I'm looking forward to the first Falcon 9 attempt.  They have learned lots on Falcon 1.  However, Falcon 9 is going to be a different animal.  Some similarities but no where near proven.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 11:41 am

Pretty cool video...I'm of the opinion NASA needs to hang a few more cameras on their vehicles, including shuttle. 

Not always feasible on existing vehicles.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 11:50 am
It didn't seem to wobble any more than on flight 4.  Does it really wobble more than other launch vehicles, or does SpaceX simply give us a better view of the wobbling than other launch providers?

Yes and no
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/14/2009 11:55 am

Pretty cool video...I'm of the opinion NASA needs to hang a few more cameras on their vehicles, including shuttle. 

Not always feasible on existing vehicles.

I have to say that it was difficult to work out where the camera was and what it was showing on the LRO/LCROSS launch (the continual LOS didn't help).  Where is the camera on the Atlas-V-401?

Back on the subject, was it me or was the usual slick SpaceX PR machine absent for this launch? The webcast seems to have been squeezed out at the last moment and cut off very abruptly.  Has Elon reduced the marketing budget or is their usual Director of Marketing on vacation so he couldn't supervise the troops?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 12:01 pm

I have to say that it was difficult to work out where the camera was and what it was showing on the LRO/LCROSS launch (the continual LOS didn't help).  Where is the camera on the Atlas-V-401?


There were two, one aft facing and one forward facing
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 12:01 pm
It didn't seem to wobble any more than on flight 4.  Does it really wobble more than other launch vehicles, or does SpaceX simply give us a better view of the wobbling than other launch providers?

Yes and no

I'll expand on this with a question: how many other liquid upper stages of this small size have had onboard cameras (AND a high T/W so any movement of the nozzle translates into a significant torque) to clearly show their attitude stability instead of wiggles on telemetry graphs?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 12:11 pm
It didn't seem to wobble any more than on flight 4.  Does it really wobble more than other launch vehicles, or does SpaceX simply give us a better view of the wobbling than other launch providers?

Yes and no

I'll expand on this with a question: how many other liquid upper stages of this small size have had onboard cameras (AND a high T/W so any movement of the nozzle translates into a significant torque) to clearly show their attitude stability instead of wiggles on telemetry graphs?

T/W is not a consideration.  Movement is movement.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mwfair on 07/14/2009 12:13 pm
and there is nothing hidden by wiggles on a graph.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/14/2009 12:16 pm
@ Jim

Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective.  I don't think anyone doubts that Falcon-1 wiggles around during MECO, first stage jettison and second stage engine ignition and even noticably at SECO.  The important question is how important is this?

1) Has it or could it impact on the successful deployment of a payload?

2) Is it a safety hazard (either to the payload or to people down-range)?

3) As Falcon-9 is using Merlin engines too, could these motions 'scale up' to the larger launcher and be more violent?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: eeergo on 07/14/2009 12:16 pm
I have to say that it was difficult to work out where the camera was and what it was showing on the LRO/LCROSS launch (the continual LOS didn't help).  Where is the camera on the Atlas-V-401?

To expand a bit on this over what Jim has already answered, I'd say the downward-facing camera was at the top of the first stage "copper" cylinder, where it meets the white cone connecting the different diameters. The upward facing camera is a bit more problematic to locate, but IIRC the retrograde separation motors were quite low in the first stage, and they could be seen firing from the views this camera provided. So it was probably somewhere on the kerosene tank surface, perhaps housed in a feedline fairing?

BTW, I wasn't able to watch the launch yesterday live (way too late for us in Europe, even though it's summertime :) ), so I'd like to thank everyone who contributed for giving me the chance to relive the excitement. Great job, SpaceX, looking forward to the recoverable Falcon 1! ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: pippin on 07/14/2009 12:32 pm
1) yes, as seen on F1-2
2) like any other loss of control. That's what range safety is for.
3) Of course they could. Or they could cancel each other out. We will see. I'd generally say the more mass you've got the more inertia you've got so any motions would really have to sync up to make things worse.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: madscientist197 on 07/14/2009 12:35 pm
Theoretical question: if RazakSAT was damaged during launch (e.g. due to excessive vibrations), will SpaceX get paid? During other commercial launches (by other companies, of course), was there a case when payload was delivered, but somehow damaged during delivery? How such case was dealt with?

It would probably be covered by insurance. However, if the payload wasn't designed for known launch conditions (e.g. vibro-acoustics) then they might not get a payout.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/14/2009 12:43 pm
1) yes, as seen on F1-2

I imagine the 'wiggle' was a lot worse on flight 2.  Has this problem been mitigated at all since then or has SpaceX just been a lot luckier?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 12:49 pm
@ Jim

Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective.  I don't think anyone doubts that Falcon-1 wiggles around during MECO, first stage jettison and second stage engine ignition and even noticably at SECO.  The important question is how important is this?


If it were a max payload mission, it have implications.  The performance is lost with this wiggles
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 12:55 pm
T/W is not a consideration.  Movement is movement.

Would an engine accelerating the stage at say 3 G produce the same torque (and so attitude rate per unit of guidance reaction time) as an engine producing 0.3 G, with all other things considered constant - moment arm, stage mass, deflection angle, etc.?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ChrisC on 07/14/2009 01:15 pm
A great team deals with issues, a poor team stands around and watches helplessly as the s/c dies.  We might know if a few days or weeks some of those details...

Just an excerpt ... Great post jimvela, thanks!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nate_Trost on 07/14/2009 02:08 pm
As far as I can tell, the F1 second stage only seems to use the Kestrel for adjustment during second stage burns and not any secondary thrusters. Is this relatively unique and contributes to the apparent control response issues? How does the F1 second stage flight response compare to a LV with a solid upperstage motor?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: robertross on 07/14/2009 02:40 pm
Went back and read through many of the posts post launch.

Congrats SpaceX...great way to prove to the Augustine Commission, and the world in general that you are making progress and can get them into orbit.

And if those in charge read this, it's obvious a bit more PR on launch day would go a long way in helping your cause. Always lots of publicity on hardware and future plans, but your audience needs you all the way to orbit.

There were a bunch of folks here turning blue for news on separation, and I agree it was nail biting time.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/14/2009 02:43 pm
Flight 2 failure was caused by LOX sloshing and mitigated by tank baffle modifications.  The wobble was much much worse than on flights 4 or 5. 

The remaining wobble may be an indication that the baffle still needs a bit of fine-tuning.  Or maybe its just needs some tuning of the control algorithms.

Assuming the final orbit really was close to a bullseye as Musk claimed, the F1 guidance system in its current state seems to be quite capable of satisfying customer requirements given a similar payload mass margin.

For every satisfied customer, they get a new set of telemetry data to help refine their algorithms and allow for tighter margins.  As they establish reliability, they can begin to optimize performance.  Reliability is obviously the top priority.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 02:44 pm
1.  Is this relatively unique and contributes to the apparent control response issues?
2.  How does the F1 second stage flight response compare to a LV with a solid upperstage motor?

1.  no, it is SOP.

2.  Pegasus and Taurus are smooth.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/14/2009 02:47 pm
As far as I can tell, the F1 second stage only seems to use the Kestrel for adjustment during second stage burns and not any secondary thrusters.

F1 second stage has a single pressure-fed engine.  Kestrel gimbals for pitch and yaw control, but attitude thrusters are required for roll control.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: yg1968 on 07/14/2009 02:47 pm
I have posted the video of the entire webcast here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17815.msg436491
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/14/2009 02:51 pm
1.  Is this relatively unique and contributes to the apparent control response issues?
2.  How does the F1 second stage flight response compare to a LV with a solid upperstage motor?

1.  no, it is SOP.

2.  Pegasus and Taurus are smooth.

Is there a solid motor size below which TO is negligible?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 02:53 pm
2.  Pegasus and Taurus are smooth.

Is there a solid motor size below which TO is negligible?

I believe "smooth" in this context was referring to attitude stability, not vibrational environment. Pegasus and Taurus have solid stages so no propellant sloshing and consequently no wobble.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kkattula on 07/14/2009 03:22 pm
SpaceX have linked the U-Tube video on their website. :)

I wonder if their publicity department may be a little busy preparing stuff for the Augustine Commission or something?  Fair enough if they are.


Congrats & much appreciation for letting us watch anyway.

Can't wait for Falcon 9.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:52 pm
well.. .Thank you to yg1968  for the video post (hopefully spacex will provide a higher def version again like they did with the last flight - hint hint... ;) )

I slowed down the video during stage separation and to my eye it all appeared nominal - no contact with the engine bell that I can see... It looks like a narrow fit but it seemed to come apart clean

Here are a few pictures of the sequence in question... Hope it is not too many - I just wanted to show the sequence...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:52 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:53 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:53 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 03:53 pm
Last ones..
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: nooneofconsequence on 07/14/2009 04:32 pm
@ Jim

Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective.  I don't think anyone doubts that Falcon-1 wiggles around during MECO, first stage jettison and second stage engine ignition and even noticably at SECO.  The important question is how important is this?


If it were a max payload mission, it have implications.  The performance is lost with this wiggles
Only matters if its intrinsic to the design. No one expects/uses/relies on max performance in the early development cycle of a LV.

May I suggest we quantify such characteristics and see if Space-X's development processes can refine the design - I think most of this is immature GNC software that needs more flight experience rather than a flawed design.

Don't think F1e and Pegasus/Taurus I are excellent comparisons - a soild second stage is much simpler. Orbital and Space-X get about the same kudo's at the early stages - Orbital being the more steady dependable turtle to Space-X 's flashy, flamboyant, over the top speed and goals. Interesting contrast - both are enjoyable to watch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/14/2009 04:40 pm
Here's an on-board video of an Ariane 5 launch.  Notice the horizon "wiggling" as the ascent proceeds, about 3:30-4:00 and later into the video.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtE0A1IaOU8

I'm going to look for some comparable on-board Centaur and Delta upper stage video.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 04:45 pm
Here's an on-board video of an Ariane 5 launch.  Notice the horizon "wiggling" as the ascent proceeds, about 3:30-4:00 and later into the video.   


I'm going to look for some comparable on-board Centaur and Delta upper stage video.

 - Ed Kyle

Good find Ed... Next to that the Falcon looks rock steady.... I think even the shuttle stack has some wiggle to it (I seem to recall people mentioning it in the STS125 launch from the Tank perspective). Not as much but definitely it occurs..
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 04:55 pm
... I think even the shuttle stack has some wiggle to it (I seem to recall people mentioning it in the STS125 launch from the Tank perspective). 

That was the vehicle flexing
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 04:57 pm
Actually, that sporadic rolling motion of the Ariane first stage seems like an intentional thing to me - maybe a thermal constraint roll or something. I didn't notice any significant wobbling Ed speaks of.

Slightly related to that - inaugural Atlas V launch, video after 6:00 shows noticeable RL-10 gimballing. Hard to judge from two different cameras and FOVs, but I'd say more gimballing than Kestrel for most of the flight. By the same token that affects performance, does it not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EldwbkVyeP0
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 04:58 pm
... I think even the shuttle stack has some wiggle to it (I seem to recall people mentioning it in the STS125 launch from the Tank perspective). 

That was the vehicle flexing

The flexing I remember Jim.. I will have to dig into it when I am home tonight but I seem to recall there was some obvious correction right after SRB sep... More obvious last launch than before....
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 05:01 pm
Here's an on-board video of an Ariane 5 launch.  Notice the horizon "wiggling" as the ascent proceeds, about 3:30-4:00 and later into the video.   


Most of that is a roll rate
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 05:02 pm

 I will have to dig into it when I am home tonight but I seem to recall there was some obvious correction right after SRB sep...

That is not the issue.  the issue is the rocking or wiggling back and forth
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: R.Simko on 07/14/2009 05:04 pm
I hope SpaceX posts engine restart and deployment of the sat., if it's possible on their website.   
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Almurray1958 on 07/14/2009 05:12 pm
I hope SpaceX posts engine restart and deployment of the sat., if it's possible on their website.   

Posted July 13, 2009 - 22:20 PDT

Second burn and satellite separation nominal. Falcon 1 has successfully deployed RazakSAT into the correct orbit. 

from here: http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/14/2009 05:12 pm
Slightly related to that - inaugural Atlas V launch, video after 6:00 shows noticeable RL-10 gimballing. Hard to judge from two different cameras and FOVs, but I'd say more gimballing than Kestrel for most of the flight. By the same token that affects performance, does it not?


The vehicle isn't moving
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/14/2009 05:21 pm
Given that this is the fifth launch of a new launch system built by a new constructor with no background in the field, SpaceX must be very proud that the only thing that the quibblers here can find wrong is a minor, off nominal, "wiggling". ;D

I just hope that this success brings SpaceX a lot of new Falcon 1 contracts.

(Army on the ground = 24)   ::)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 05:35 pm
The vehicle isn't moving

Which means slight cosine losses anyway each time the engine gimbals to maintain vehicle control. No doubt something already accounted for in the vehicle performance margin. I don't see why that couldn't be the case with F1 as well, the wobble seems confined enough.

It might not be implausible to suggest the reduction in performance is less this way than what would be brought about by adding more mass to baffles. But then again, I'm just an enthusiast. The real question is whether the slosh motion still has a chance to get into a positive feedback loop with the guidance and spiral out of control. These last two flights kept it at bay, definitely different than Demo 2 but you never know. I'd also rather have a steady vehicle. Maybe on F1e with more capability...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/14/2009 05:52 pm
SpaceX now has a "highlights" video of flight5 on their video page:

http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=40&cat=recent

Includes second burn, but no footage of spacecraft sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 05:58 pm
SpaceX now has a "highlights" video of flight5 on their video page:

http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=40&cat=recent

Includes second burn, but no footage of spacecraft sep.

Nice.. even showed the restart of kestral for circularizing the orbit (certainly is a short burn). The only thing missing is the satellite deploy
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: robertross on 07/14/2009 06:00 pm

Here are a few pictures of the sequence in question... Hope it is not too many - I just wanted to show the sequence...

Thanks stockman for posting that sequence, as I can't watch YouTube yet (maybe this fall).
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 06:05 pm
The only thing missing is the satellite deploy

In pitch darkness, I'd venture a guess you wouldn't see much. ;D
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 06:06 pm
The only thing missing is the satellite deploy

In pitch darkness, I'd venture a guess you wouldn't see much. ;D

Good point.. :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: nooneofconsequence on 07/14/2009 06:10 pm
Wouldn't have been too hard to have a few "white light" LED's on the camera to see payload  sep with. Bigger issue probably was supporting the video downlink with the telemetry.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 06:18 pm
Where would you put the LEDs? Between 2nd stage and the payload was the SoftRide vibration dampener.

As they say, better is the enemy of good enough. Keeping it simple and light. We should be grateful they make it standard practice to put onboard cameras on such a small vehicle at all.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: yg1968 on 07/14/2009 06:39 pm
Ascension reacquires signal from the SpaceX highlights video:
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Yegor on 07/14/2009 06:44 pm
Congratulations to all with the first successful commercial flight of SpaceX!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Avron on 07/14/2009 07:07 pm
Very nice , congrats, wonder if the 1st stage was tracked back to earth... I guess all the recovery stuff was taken off to reduce load for this launch
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cheesybagel on 07/14/2009 07:07 pm
Contact has been made with the satellite:
http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425261
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: gospacex on 07/14/2009 07:10 pm
Congratulations Elon!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: pippin on 07/14/2009 07:12 pm
Here's an on-board video of an Ariane 5 launch.  Notice the horizon "wiggling" as the ascent proceeds, about 3:30-4:00 and later into the video.   


I'm going to look for some comparable on-board Centaur and Delta upper stage video.

 - Ed Kyle

Good find Ed... Next to that the Falcon looks rock steady.... I think even the shuttle stack has some wiggle to it (I seem to recall people mentioning it in the STS125 launch from the Tank perspective). Not as much but definitely it occurs..
No wonder.
This isn't realtime but double speed.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: marsavian on 07/14/2009 07:15 pm
Contact has been made with the satellite:
http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425261


He also announced that SpaceX has agreed to launch the two micro-satellites CubeSAT and InnoSAT, meant for educational purposes, next year on Falcon 9.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/14/2009 07:24 pm
Contact has been made with the satellite:
http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425261



NOW can we call this a successful flight!!  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/14/2009 07:32 pm
Very nice , congrats, wonder if the 1st stage was tracked back to earth... I guess all the recovery stuff was taken off to reduce load for this launch

There were several comments during the launch that they were receiving good telemetry on both stages after separation.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: nooneofconsequence on 07/14/2009 07:33 pm
Contact has been made with the satellite:
http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425261



NOW can we call this a successful flight!!  :)
Not yet - Jim has to go over the telemetry so as to show all the ways it wasn't as good as Celta or Taurus or Pegasus  :)

Seriously, I'm just ecstatic that we don't have another Kistler!

We've got a new LV provider, and that's great for our industry!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/14/2009 07:35 pm
There were several comments during the launch that they were receiving good telemetry on both stages after separation.

That would be before the 1st stage was cooked on reentry. Remember that during staging it's going at 2.8 km/s uphill so it's got a couple of minutes before reentering. The same thing happened on previous flights.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 07:51 pm
I (like Ed) have been looking through various onboard video from Delta II/IV and Atlas flights. Most don't show a clean view of the horizon at all but the ones that do are pretty stable with any disturbances settling out within a few oscillations.

I think the "wobbliness" of the stage is probably a combination of the small size, liquid fuel nature (which magnifies the effect of any slosh) and maybe a guidance system that needs a little more fine-tuning. Still it is a great accomplishment for SpaceX and they should be congratulated. :) I can't wait for F9 - that will really be a sight!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: iamlucky13 on 07/14/2009 09:40 pm
About the guidance system needing fine tuning:

I believe it was in a previous thread on this site that someone reported (although no corroboration provided) that SpaceX had changed the attitude control logic from a proportional algorithm to a proportional-integral one. That may have helped somewhat, but obviously the wobble is still there.

It may be that eliminating the wobble is of minor concern to them, or they've had trouble reducing it further. It's possible for the latter that, rather than further improvements to control, they need improvements to the mechanical hardware. Any actuator has limits on its accuracy, due to factors like hysteresis or temperature response. If that's the case, it's going to take longer and be more expensive to sort out the wobble.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/14/2009 11:22 pm
It was great to see they got the circularization burn video..cool to see. Love to see more F1 launches but they seem to be few on the manifest for now.  I'm assuming the F1e maiden flight will just have some cubesats or some other "non crucial"  (not sure what word to use there ) payload on board?
A little off topic...
anyone think it is strange the spacex/Elon haven't made their own press release over their success?  I was half expecting one in my e-mail box this morning...
cheers
jb
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: blazotron on 07/15/2009 03:36 am
I (like Ed) have been looking through various onboard video from Delta II/IV and Atlas flights. Most don't show a clean view of the horizon at all but the ones that do are pretty stable with any disturbances settling out within a few oscillations.

I think the "wobbliness" of the stage is probably a combination of the small size, liquid fuel nature (which magnifies the effect of any slosh) and maybe a guidance system that needs a little more fine-tuning. Still it is a great accomplishment for SpaceX and they should be congratulated. :) I can't wait for F9 - that will really be a sight!

The Eutelsat W4 on Atlas 3 near the page bottom here:
http://www.eclipticenterprises.com/gallery_rocketcam.shtml
has some notable oscillation during flight.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/15/2009 04:45 am
I guess I just don't get this debate.

Falcon 1 is a bargain basement launcher, of course it has wobbly 1st and 2nd stages, uneven heating of the 2nd stage ablative, and any number of other quirks. 

If the rocket reaches the proper orbit, without damaging the cargo, and can do it at a lower cost, who cares about reaction control that needs fine tuning.

The US now has a launcher, not just power point presentations, that is inline with the costs of Russian, Chinese, and Indian rockets. 

IF SpaceX starts producing the Falcon 1 at any significant rate, which the manifest indicates they won't, I wonder what Orbital's response would be?  Price war in the small launchers really could change things significantly.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/15/2009 05:17 am
I (like Ed) have been looking through various onboard video from Delta II/IV and Atlas flights. Most don't show a clean view of the horizon at all but the ones that do are pretty stable with any disturbances settling out within a few oscillations.

I think the "wobbliness" of the stage is probably a combination of the small size, liquid fuel nature (which magnifies the effect of any slosh) and maybe a guidance system that needs a little more fine-tuning. Still it is a great accomplishment for SpaceX and they should be congratulated. :) I can't wait for F9 - that will really be a sight!

The Eutelsat W4 on Atlas 3 near the page bottom here:
http://www.eclipticenterprises.com/gallery_rocketcam.shtml
has some notable oscillation during flight.

I did see that, however that looked like the oscillations were in first stage flight. Falcon showed some similar rolling motion but I think it is more acceptable in first stage because you are still dealing with aero loads etc.

As for why we are debating this, for me at least it is just a curiosity and nothing more, not an indictment of the engineering or design of Falcon. But it is ignoring seemingly small things like this that could (of course, not will) manifest in a serious problem down the road. Like I said, they got their payload into the right orbit and intact, so they deserve everyone's congratulations. Perhaps they should look into this just a little, try to understand it, and they will have one less thing to worry about in the future.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/15/2009 05:25 am
I believe it was in a previous thread on this site that someone reported (although no corroboration provided) that SpaceX had changed the attitude control logic from a proportional algorithm to a proportional-integral one.

I thought that was Antonio suggesting they should.

It may be nothing, and they'll have to answer it when customers start asking.  Similar to the hydrogen fireball on Delta IV.  It ain't pretty but it works.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Art LeBrun on 07/15/2009 05:30 am
Very transient but some Atlases had a clockwise roll at liftoff that was quickly damped out. Not sure of the cause unless it was the single turbine exhaust duct on the A-D and SLV-3 versions............
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/15/2009 06:22 am
This site (http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=35578) reports RazakSAT is in a 674.6 x 694.7 km, 9.0 deg inclination orbit.

That gives eccentricity of 0.0014 and semimajor axis of 684.7 km
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/15/2009 06:58 am
This site (http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=35578) reports RazakSAT is in a 674.6 x 694.7 km, 9.0 deg inclination orbit.

That gives eccentricity of 0.0014 and semimajor axis of 684.7 km

Doesn't seem to be too far off target then. SpaceX PAO gave the target orbit as 685km circular at 9 degrees.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kkattula on 07/15/2009 08:02 am
...
A little off topic...
anyone think it is strange the spacex/Elon haven't made their own press release over their success?  I was half expecting one in my e-mail box this morning...
cheers
jb

Maybe the customer asked them not to without clearing with them first. There was a little tension when the vibration issue was discovered.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/15/2009 05:14 pm
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact:
Emily Shanklin | Director, Marketing and Communications
[email protected]
310.363.6733

SPACEX’S FALCON 1 SUCCESSFULLY DELIVERS RAZAKSAT SATELLITE TO ORBIT

Hawthorne, CA (July 15, 2009) - Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX<http://www.spacex.com/>) announces the successful launch of Falcon 1<http://spacex.com/falcon1.php#falcon1_overview> and delivery of Malaysia’s RazakSAT into the correct orbit.

“This marks another successful launch by the SpaceX team,” said Elon Musk, CEO and CTO of SpaceX.  “We are pleased to announce that Malaysia’s RazakSAT, aboard Falcon 1, has achieved the intended orbit.”

Falcon 1, a two-stage, liquid oxygen/rocket-grade kerosene vehicle designed and manufactured by SpaceX, lifted off Monday, July 13, at 8:35 pm (PDT).  Lift off occurred from the Reagan Test Site (RTS) on Omelek Island at the U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll (USAKA) in the Pacific Ocean, approximately 2,500 miles southwest of Hawaii.

RazakSAT was designed and built by Astronautic Technology (M) Sdn Bhd (ATSB), a pioneer and leader in the design and manufacture of satellites in Malaysia.

“Our ground systems were able to pick up communication from RazakSAT on its first pass,” said Norhizam Hamzah, Senior Vice President / Chief Technical Officer, Space Systems Division, ATSB.  “The satellite is communicating as expected and our team will continue to monitor the data closely.”

Preliminary data indicates that the RazakSAT, equipped with a high resolution Medium-Sized Aperture Camera (MAC), achieved the intended Near-Equatorial Low Earth Orbit (NEqO) at 685 km altitude and a 9 degree inclination. The payload is expected to provide high resolution images of Malaysia that can be applied to land management, resource development and conservation, forestry and fish migration.

For more information about the Falcon family of vehicles, and to watch the Falcon 1 Flight 5 video, visit the SpaceX website at www.spacex.com<http://www.spacex.com/>

About SpaceX

SpaceX is developing a family of launch vehicles and spacecraft intended to increase the reliability and reduce the cost of both manned and unmanned space transportation, ultimately by a factor of ten. With the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 vehicles, SpaceX offers highly reliable/cost-efficient launch capabilities for spacecraft insertion into any orbital altitude and inclination. Starting in 2010, SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft will provide Earth-to-LEO transport of pressurized and unpressurized cargo, including resupply to the International Space Station (ISS).

Founded in 2002, SpaceX is a private company owned by management and employees, with minority investments from Founders Fund and DFJ.  The SpaceX team now numbers nearly 800, with corporate headquarters in Hawthorne, California.   For more information, please visit the company’s web site at www.spacex.com<http://www.spacex.com/>.
# # #



Photo Links:
http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/Liftoff_south_FULL_QQ9L7636.jpg
http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/Liftoff_south_FULL_WIDE_RO8A1280.jpg
http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/Liftoff_west_FULL_WIDE_NN6P2062.jpg

Photo Caption:  Liftoff of the Falcon 1 RazakSAT mission, from the SpaceX launch site on Omelek Island, US Army Kwajalein Atoll, in the Central Pacific, on 14 July 2009 at 03:35 UTC.  Credit: SpaceX
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/15/2009 06:59 pm
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact:
Emily Shanklin | Director, Marketing and Communications
[email protected]
310.363.6733

SPACEX’S FALCON 1 SUCCESSFULLY DELIVERS RAZAKSAT SATELLITE TO ORBIT
...

About a day and a half late on that press release.  The stories have already been written on this one.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jabe on 07/15/2009 07:31 pm
About a day and a half late on that press release.  The stories have already been written on this one.

 - Ed Kyle
pretty anti climatic.. but this makes it truly official.  I wonder why the delay?  I was expecting a little more flair to it for some reason. :)
jb
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nate_Trost on 07/15/2009 07:58 pm
The people who have to sign off on PR content are all really really really busy?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: marsavian on 07/15/2009 08:01 pm
About a day and a half late on that press release.  The stories have already been written on this one.

 - Ed Kyle
pretty anti climatic.. but this makes it truly official.  I wonder why the delay?  I was expecting a little more flair to it for some reason. :)
jb

Probably making 100% sure this time before claiming complete success.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: zaitcev on 07/15/2009 08:08 pm
The US now has a launcher, not just power point presentations, that is inline with the costs of Russian, Chinese, and Indian rockets.
I also think that it's quite surprising, although it's possible that the price is only sustainable as long as Falcon-1 taps on Elon's pocket. If it costs the same as today after 20 launches (in inflation-adjusted dollars), then perhaps we truly found a way to make a significant cost reduction.

Quote
IF SpaceX starts producing the Falcon 1 at any significant rate, which the manifest indicates they won't, I wonder what Orbital's response would be?  Price war in the small launchers really could change things significantly.
The thin manifest of Falcon-1 is my major concern. Where are all those smallsat people? If $7 million for half a ton is not good enough for them, what is? Will they show up if "Falcon-1z" costs $3 millon? If they don't show up, does it make the Elon's vision of price reduction bogus?

In this context I don't know if I have to worry about the way Falcon-1e chases payload capacity.

-- Pete
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/15/2009 08:12 pm
The cynic in me wonders if the slow response is due to SpaceX's focus moving to the Falcon-9, so flights of the Falcon-1 is reduced to 'other stuff we do'.  If so (especially when you consider the fact that Falcon-9 has never flown, indeed is not even flight-ready), I have to say it is a bit silly.

Re: Smallsats.  Either here or on the Q&A thread, someone mentioned that Elon Musk has said that a few small cubesats will be launched with a Falcon-9 some time.  With all due respect, why risk them on the Falcon-9? Put them on a F-1, get them up sooner and let the F-9 team focus on getting their own product operational - it is SpaceX's 'flagship' after all! I would have thought that Mr. Musk would have learnt from the test payloads he lost on early F-1 flights not to risk paying customers (or goodwill customers) payloads on untested or lightly-tested vehicles.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/15/2009 08:19 pm
a few small cubesats will be launched with a Falcon-9 some time.  With all due respect, why risk them on the Falcon-9? Put them on a F-1, get them up sooner and let the F-9 team focus on getting their own product operational

So you would rather they dedicated an entire F1 launch with the price tag it comes with just so they would carry a couple of kilograms to orbit? Wouldn't it be easier to simply shove the cubesats on one of the Dragon flights in the unpressurized trunk and have them have a simple deploy mechanism? Presto - virtually a free ride.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/15/2009 08:42 pm
Re: Smallsats.  Either here or on the Q&A thread, someone mentioned that Elon Musk has said that a few small cubesats will be launched with a Falcon-9 some time.  With all due respect, why risk them on the Falcon-9? Put them on a F-1, get them up sooner and let the F-9 team focus on getting their own product operational - it is SpaceX's 'flagship' after all! I would have thought that Mr. Musk would have learnt from the test payloads he lost on early F-1 flights not to risk paying customers (or goodwill customers) payloads on untested or lightly-tested vehicles.

In the next 18 months SpaceX has to construct and certify 27+56 Merlin IC (They only have 6), 6 Merlin Vac (only 1 currently), 2 Kestrel, 2 Falcon 1 2nd stages, and 2 new Falcon 1E 1st stages, 9 F9 1st Stages (have only 1), 9 F9 Second Stages(only have 1), and 4 Dragon Spacecraft (only have 1).  All this while finishing up SLC 40, COTS reviews, and expanding their workforce.

Being a cubesat launcher is the last of SpaceX's worries this year.  The real worry I have for SpaceX is that Falcon1 Flight 1 style failure of the Falcon 9 will not be tolerated.  If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/15/2009 08:46 pm


In the next 18 months SpaceX has to construct and certify 27+56 Merlin IC (They only have 6), 6 Merlin Vac (only 1 currently), 2 Kestrel, 2 Falcon 1 2nd stages, and 2 new Falcon 1E 1st stages, 9 F9 1st Stages (have only 1), 9 F9 Second Stages(only have 1), and 4 Dragon Spacecraft (only have 1).  All this while finishing up SLC 40, COTS reviews, and expanding their workforce.


I am not questioning your logic but I am just curious - where did you get these figures of exactly what they have made to date? Did you get a manifest of current product in their warehouse or are you basing it on some other information... Again, just curious if these are estimated numbers based on what have seen to date or if I have missed some document that outlines what they have actually manufactured to date...

thanks in advance.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/15/2009 08:51 pm
If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

That risk/no reward trade is something I hadn't thought of.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/15/2009 08:54 pm
If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

That risk/no reward trade is something I hadn't thought of.

Coincidentally, the same would apply for Ares I-X.

Both teams I think are secretly praying their vehicle at least gets far enough downrange so as to be out of plain sight and many of the cameras.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/15/2009 09:01 pm
The people who have to sign off on PR content are all really really really busy?

Press releases usually appear to come out of a "can", so to speak.  Pre-prepared and pre-approved, to some extent, with maybe a sentence or two customized with launch day specifics.  I wouldn't be surprised to see releases pre-prepared for both the possibility of success and failure.  ULA, Arianespace, ILS, etc., and their subcontractors, let the press releases fly seemingly within minutes of a launch mission's completion.

A company with now 800-ish employees doesn't have one person available with authority to communicate that company's greatest success to date to the news media?  I don't buy it. 

The result of this lack of communication?  See if you can find a SpaceX story at Aviation Week.  Do a search for "spacex" stories in the New York Times, or the Chicago Tribune, written during the past week.  Etc.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nate_Trost on 07/15/2009 09:03 pm
In the next 18 months SpaceX has to construct and certify 27+56 Merlin IC (They only have 6), 6 Merlin Vac (only 1 currently), 2 Kestrel, 2 Falcon 1 2nd stages, and 2 new Falcon 1E 1st stages, 9 F9 1st Stages (have only 1), 9 F9 Second Stages(only have 1), and 4 Dragon Spacecraft (only have 1).  All this while finishing up SLC 40, COTS reviews, and expanding their workforce.

Worse than that, they have to finish qualifying and start building the Merlins with the turbopump upgrade (for F1e and F9 Block II). So probably only 27 Merlin 1C and 56 Merlin '1D'.

Due to staffing up for COTS and CRS, in a way SpaceX is already too 'big' for Falcon 1. They don't even have current pricing for F1e, the initial number was $8.5 million. I'm guessing when numbers show up on the web site again it's at least $10 million. They have a $1,600 million contract to try and execute at the moment and a headcount of almost 800. In that context chasing a handful of Falcon 1e launches makes no sense.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/15/2009 09:14 pm
Good grief y'all.  The people who needed to know about the launch knew.  Go back up the thread and notice where Chris's confirmation of spacecraft sep came from: NASA HQ.

And the people who need to know about the pricing of Falcons know.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: yinzer on 07/15/2009 09:17 pm
Good grief y'all.  The people who needed to know about the launch knew.  Go back up the thread and notice where Chris's confirmation of spacecraft sep came from: NASA HQ.

And the people who need to know about the pricing of Falcons know.

It's still a noticeable shift from their previous behavior.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/15/2009 09:17 pm
They have a $1,600 million contract to try and execute at the moment and a headcount of almost 800. In that context chasing a handful of Falcon 1e launches makes no sense.


Not exactly.  They have a contract that could be up to 1.6 Billion.  They will be paid for each milestone they achieve for each mission.  Right now they have seen very little of this money.    They still need to complete COTS milestones too.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/15/2009 09:24 pm
It's still a noticeable shift from their previous behavior.

It's a little hypocritical to comment (not directed at you, but a general comment) on their lack of hyping-up the launch results everywhere, because not too long ago people were complaining about their overactive PR department.

You really cannot please everyone. I would rather have this outcome than a failed launch with a PR department swift to downplay it.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Pittsburgh on 07/15/2009 09:26 pm
I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jimvela on 07/15/2009 09:28 pm
Being a cubesat launcher is the last of SpaceX's worries this year.  The real worry I have for SpaceX is that Falcon1 Flight 1 style failure of the Falcon 9 will not be tolerated.  If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

Frankly, welcome to the launch vehicle provider business, SpaceX. 

It's what they wanted.  Now they have it. 

From here on out, they'll live or die based on how they perform (or don't). 

A really PR-conscious new provider might call the 1st F9 launch a test launch and lay the groundwork in everyone's mind that it's a test launch.  Might even get them some media exposure that way- Jane Sixpack loves drama, and Joe and the kids love to see things blow up.

I don't expect to see that first F9 end up a fireball on the pad or a hulk in the Banana river, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it ends up downrange in the Atlantic somewhere.

[edit- which coast is that pad on, again  ;) ]
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/15/2009 09:30 pm
I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

It isn't really criticism.  It is more a sort of bemused wonderment as to what gives. 

One thing that SpaceX could never be accused of was being shy about their achievements.  It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.  The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that something else (read: Falcon-9) is now their focus and Falcon-1 just isn't important enough to get the full court press treatment anymore.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jeff Bingham on 07/15/2009 09:44 pm
I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

It isn't really criticism.  It is more a sort of bemused wonderment as to what gives. 

One thing that SpaceX could never be accused of was being shy about their achievements.  It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.  The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that something else (read: Falcon-9) is now their focus and Falcon-1 just isn't important enough to get the full court press treatment anymore.

SpaceX's notification to the Congress indicated that information about the spacecraft would come from the Malaysians, not SpaceX, so I would tend to chalk up any delay or less than "timely" reports as being a function of the Malaysian processes of information disclosure, and nothing to do with SpaceX.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/15/2009 09:46 pm
Pesky customers ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris-A on 07/15/2009 11:32 pm
hi-res images from a press release here. ;)
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090715006131&newsLang=en
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/15/2009 11:46 pm
I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

It isn't really criticism.  It is more a sort of bemused wonderment as to what gives. 

One thing that SpaceX could never be accused of was being shy about their achievements.  It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.  The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that something else (read: Falcon-9) is now their focus and Falcon-1 just isn't important enough to get the full court press treatment anymore.
I am surprise how many people are underestimated their success. By the way it their second successfully launch not first one, as you mention.
I am amazed they will have two operational rocket done in 7 years period and without 1 bilion debt. I will call it success. At the end it is about price and reliability.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/15/2009 11:49 pm
Being a cubesat launcher is the last of SpaceX's worries this year.  The real worry I have for SpaceX is that Falcon1 Flight 1 style failure of the Falcon 9 will not be tolerated.  If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

Frankly, welcome to the launch vehicle provider business, SpaceX. 

It's what they wanted.  Now they have it. 

From here on out, they'll live or die based on how they perform (or don't). 

A really PR-conscious new provider might call the 1st F9 launch a test launch and lay the groundwork in everyone's mind that it's a test launch.  Might even get them some media exposure that way- Jane Sixpack loves drama, and Joe and the kids love to see things blow up.

I don't expect to see that first F9 end up a fireball on the pad or a hulk in the Banana river, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it ends up downrange in the Atlantic somewhere.

[edit- which coast is that pad on, again  ;) ]
Did you predicted same fate for flight 4 and 5. If you check flight compare with rocket it was perfect. The only more stable is Space shuttle, if you check pictures. But it cost 1 billion one flight ouch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jimvela on 07/16/2009 12:27 am
Did you predicted same fate for flight 4 and 5. If you check flight compare with rocket it was perfect. The only more stable is Space shuttle, if you check pictures. But it cost 1 billion one flight ouch.

First off, figure out which user you're replying to- I'm a different Jim than the fellow you're thinking of.  And I've been generally very supportive of SpaceX.  When they do well, I call it, and if I see otherwise I call that too.

Second, this launch was not perfect, nor was this launch campaign perfict (vibration isolators, microsat removal, anyone?)

Third, regarding
Quote
The only more stable is Space shuttle, if you check pictures.

I have friends working on other launch vehicles whom would not agree with that assessment.  We'll have to agree to disagree.

SpaceX did put a customer spacecraft in orbit, and I welcome the arrival of another company that can provide launch services.  It's good for me, we only build spacecraft, instruments, and subsystems.  Affordable launch is great for me, it means more opportunities for customers to spend their dollars on my hardware rather than send those very dollars to a launch services provider. 

Regarding the shuttle, that's just sour grapes.  I'm in the camp of the folks wanting a new exploration system that is affordable, but will tip my hat to the STS- when they're retired and in museums, there may not be anything like them for generations to come.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/16/2009 12:33 am
It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.
By the way it their second successfully launch not first one, as you mention.

No, they didn't operate the payload separation system on the first mission, which was otherwise successful but therefore not "full".
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Spacenuts on 07/16/2009 12:42 am
If my memory serves me correctly I believe Elon stated that he would probably never see profitability from the Falcon 1.  Setting aside the obvious discussion on accounting methods I would venture to say the "1" is almost profit free at the current price they offer or priced with a margin but not expecting the volume needed to put to rest the large r & d budget incured when they were putting the company together.  I would bet against an earlier comment that it is a "loss leader" such as some stores provide to get customers in the door though that is certainly a possibility.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/16/2009 02:14 am
Good grief y'all.  The people who needed to know about the launch knew.  Go back up the thread and notice where Chris's confirmation of spacecraft sep came from: NASA HQ.

And the people who need to know about the pricing of Falcons know.

Since the U.S. government is by far the biggest SpaceX customer, it would serve the company well, I think, to build a line of communication with the taxpaying public, who will be paying its bills.  The easiest way to do this would be to issue, *in a timely manner*, a simple press release that might get picked up by a wider group of news sources - to get the news out beyond the sites we space groupies all haunt.  Timely press releases after launches are *standard practice* in the line of business that SpaceX is striving to be in. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 07/16/2009 03:47 am
No, they didn't operate the payload separation system on the first mission, which was otherwise successful but therefore not "full".
Didn't they have a "simulated payload separation" immediately after MECO (well before the circularization burn)?  I'm pretty sure I remember that from the webcast at the time.

No idea how you "simulate" a payload separation if you have no payload.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: madscientist197 on 07/16/2009 04:38 am
Didn't they have a test payload -- 'ratsat'? Not actually a functional satellite, of course.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jcm on 07/16/2009 04:43 am
Didn't they have a test payload -- 'ratsat'? Not actually a functional satellite, of course.

Yes, but it only "simulatedly" separated. I guess they tested sending the electrical signal from the second stage to where the release mechanism would have been, but didn't have a real release mechanism.

Ratsat is still attached to the second stage, in a 621 x 643 km orbit, by design.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/16/2009 05:27 am
Timely press releases after launches are *standard practice* in the line of business that SpaceX is striving to be in.

51D, as usual, told us why the public release wasn't timely.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Pittsburgh on 07/16/2009 06:55 am
A company with now 800-ish employees doesn't have one person available with authority to communicate that company's greatest success to date to the news media?  I don't buy it. 

Or for that matter, update the launch manifest on their website.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: butters on 07/16/2009 09:49 am
I don't think it's that hard to understand why ATSB and associated Malaysian institutions might not have wanted their launch provider to engage in shameless American-style self-promotion.  It's their money.

The F9 maiden flight and the COTS flights will almost certainly receive the public relations treatment we've come to expect from SpaceX.  Ditto if they ever launch Bigelow habs or other privately-funded payloads.

The small sat market is at something of a crossroads, so the long-term outlook for the F1/F1e-class product is hard to predict.  Does SpaceX think they can turn a profit in this segment?  Will future developments like the Raptor hydrolox upper stage apply only to the F9-class product?  To what extent, if any, is F1 merely a stepping stone to F9?

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/16/2009 01:53 pm
No, they didn't operate the payload separation system on the first mission, which was otherwise successful but therefore not "full".
Didn't they have a "simulated payload separation" immediately after MECO (well before the circularization burn)?  I'm pretty sure I remember that from the webcast at the time.

No idea how you "simulate" a payload separation if you have no payload.

According to SpaceX update archives, falcon1 flight 2 "deployed the satellite mass simulator ring at the end of the flight", although, not at orbital velocity.

Does that count as a successful test of the spacecraft seperation system? I think it does, but others may disagree.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/16/2009 02:04 pm
Does that count as a successful test of the spacecraft seperation system? I think it does, but others may disagree.

Yes, it does.  However, the key point you made was that flight 2 didn't make it to orbit.  So, flight 5 is the first time all Falcon-1 system operated as intended in a fully-operational flight.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/16/2009 04:31 pm
Or for that matter, update the launch manifest on their website.

Is spaceX's primary purpose running websites or building rockets? Will an out of date website cost them any sales, will someone do a google search and say, my my, nice website, think I'll order a falcon. It would be nice, but keeping an website up todate requires people, just like building Faclon 1e, 9, and dragon. It is more important for them to talk to there customers, you know the people that buy the launches. As long as they are doing that, the website is a bonus for the rest of us to drool over... Really, updating it constantly is wasted money.

...gosh I just defended SpaceX. Must shower ;)

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/16/2009 04:32 pm
A company with now 800-ish employees doesn't have one person available with authority to communicate that company's greatest success to date to the news media?  I don't buy it.
Or for that matter, update the launch manifest on their website.

Well, the Jacobins have scared me away from this discussion.  My last words are that y'all gripe at them no matter what they do.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/16/2009 04:45 pm
My last words are that y'all gripe at them no matter what they do.

Seconded. I figured there'd be people downplaying a successful launch, but frankly, this is getting absurd. SpaceX isn't ULA, Arianespace, ILS, whatever. What's with these expectations they behave like them in some respects, but not in others (price, etc)?

Think about whether a serious customer will really judge a launch service provider based on their website and their exposure in the daily newspapers.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Paul Adams on 07/16/2009 04:56 pm
My last words are that y'all gripe at them no matter what they do.

Seconded. I figured there'd be people downplaying a successful launch, but frankly, this is getting absurd. SpaceX isn't ULA, Arianespace, ILS, whatever. What's with these expectations they behave like them in some respects, but not in others (price, etc)?

Think about whether a serious customer will really judge a launch service provider based on their website and their exposure in the daily newspapers.

I will third that!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/16/2009 05:05 pm
A company with now 800-ish employees doesn't have one person available with authority to communicate that company's greatest success to date to the news media?  I don't buy it.
Or for that matter, update the launch manifest on their website.

Well, the Jacobins have scared me away from this discussion.  My last words are that y'all gripe at them no matter what they do.

Agreed. If I had been Musk, last September, I might well have turned my back on the "nattering nabobs of negativism"*, turned off the website, and gone about my business.

* I wonder if anyone much younger than me remembers the speeches of VP Spiro Agnew, who tried to get us headed to Mars, post-Apollo, and then got caught cheating on his income taxes. He had a way with words, anyway.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/16/2009 05:05 pm
My last words are that y'all gripe at them no matter what they do.

Seconded. I figured there'd be people downplaying a successful launch, but frankly, this is getting absurd. SpaceX isn't ULA, Arianespace, ILS, whatever. What's with these expectations they behave like them in some respects, but not in others (price, etc)?

Think about whether a serious customer will really judge a launch service provider based on their website and their exposure in the daily newspapers.

My messages are not meant to be a "gripe" or complaint.  I only intend to point out that SpaceX could do much better at communicating with the press - and that has little to do with their web site.

Anyone reading this who is a U.S. taxpayer is a "SpaceX customer".  SpaceX has an opportunity to "wow" these "customers", by telling them how it might be able to save them money, for example.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/16/2009 05:07 pm
My last words are that y'all gripe at them no matter what they do.

Seconded. I figured there'd be people downplaying a successful launch, but frankly, this is getting absurd. SpaceX isn't ULA, Arianespace, ILS, whatever. What's with these expectations they behave like them in some respects, but not in others (price, etc)?

Think about whether a serious customer will really judge a launch service provider based on their website and their exposure in the daily newspapers.

My messages are not meant to be a "gripe" or complaint.  I only intend to point out that SpaceX could do much better at communicating with the press - and that has little to do with their web site.

Anyone reading this who is a U.S. taxpayer is a "SpaceX customer".  SpaceX has an opportunity to "wow" these "customers", by telling them how it might be able to save them money, for example.

 - Ed Kyle

Yes. And every time they did, in the past, the either got laughed at or accused of "hype" (to put it politely).
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/16/2009 05:09 pm
To be fair, after the flt 3 debacle, I pointed out if Musk wanted to have a credible media presense, he could just hire some RTV&P students from the nearest community college. It ain't rocket science. But I don't blame him for not caring what we'all think.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mmeijeri on 07/16/2009 05:09 pm
Not critisising them for this, but I don't understand why they haven't updated the manifest on their website's main page. This mission is still listed under upcoming missions.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/16/2009 05:15 pm

My messages are not meant to be a "gripe" or complaint.  I only intend to point out that SpaceX could do much better at communicating with the press - and that has little to do with their web site.

Anyone reading this who is a U.S. taxpayer is a "SpaceX customer".  SpaceX has an opportunity to "wow" these "customers", by telling them how it might be able to save them money, for example.

 - Ed Kyle
Yes. And every time they did, in the past, the either got laughed at or accused of "hype" (to put it politely).

If they used good corporate communication practices, they could tell their story factually and still do the "wow" thing. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jongoff on 07/16/2009 07:49 pm
Anyone reading this who is a U.S. taxpayer is a "SpaceX customer".  SpaceX has an opportunity to "wow" these "customers", by telling them how it might be able to save them money, for example.

That's a really naive way of looking at it.  Sure, SpaceX is getting a lot of its business from NASA.  And sure, most of NASA's money can be traced back to US taxpayers throughout the country.  But the reality is that the Northern Alabama Space Administration's main customer is a set of Senators and Congresspeople in a few states that most of us don't get to vote for/against.  Sure, you could say that SpaceX is spending your money and my money, but quite frankly, neither of us matter one bit when it comes to how that money of ours is spent.

But FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with how SpaceX handled things.  They're one of the more open space companies out there, and I really enjoyed watching them fly.

~Jon
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Spacenuts on 07/16/2009 08:08 pm
Ok, just took a very quick look at the ULA website.  Looks similar except that they don't give you a list of upcoming launches.  I also not that some of the announcements are posted a few days after the actual successfull launch.  Of note is that there are no updates from the head of the company talking about things going on between launches.

Any time Elon speaks his statements are picked apart down to the use of the word "will" as apposed to the word "may" and how that reflects on comments he made three years prior (may be exagerating but the point is made).  I attribute this to us trying to make the most out of what we wish was more information.  So, I for one am happy that I get anything other than a generic web page and the successfull launch notice.  Keep them updates a' comin.

Questions, how much of a new rocket are we dealing with for the "1e" version??  How much larger is the potential market with the increase in payload?  If the Falcon 1 series solid and reliable does anyone here think we will see a big increase in the number of flights on the list??
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: yg1968 on 07/16/2009 09:40 pm
Anyone reading this who is a U.S. taxpayer is a "SpaceX customer".  SpaceX has an opportunity to "wow" these "customers", by telling them how it might be able to save them money, for example.

That's a really naive way of looking at it.  Sure, SpaceX is getting a lot of its business from NASA.  And sure, most of NASA's money can be traced back to US taxpayers throughout the country.  But the reality is that the Northern Alabama Space Administration's main customer is a set of Senators and Congresspeople in a few states that most of us don't get to vote for/against.  Sure, you could say that SpaceX is spending your money and my money, but quite frankly, neither of us matter one bit when it comes to how that money of ours is spent.

But FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with how SpaceX handled things.  They're one of the more open space companies out there, and I really enjoyed watching them fly.

~Jon

I agree. I would also add that at some point this criticism of SpaceX becomes nit picking.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: docmordrid on 07/16/2009 10:13 pm
It's been nit-picky as a bunch of tween-age school girls for quite a while.  Yes; there have been things to discuss, but all too often that discussion is catty and sneering. 

Rather tedious, actually.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/16/2009 10:16 pm
It's been nit-picky as a bunch of tween-age school girls for quite a while.  Yes; there have been things to discuss, but all too often that discussion is catty and sneering. 

Rather tedious, actually.

Better than the school girl gushing and fawning that occurs more often
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: dunderwood on 07/16/2009 10:21 pm
Better than the school girl gushing and fawning that occurs more often

Honestly, the fawning and nitpicking are about the same on the annoyance scale.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: HMXHMX on 07/16/2009 11:10 pm
You haven't seen nitpicking at work until you sit though a mission assurance review conducted by Aerospace Corporation, or by a peeved insurance broker/underwriter who has to pay out a few hundred millions in claims.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Diagoras on 07/16/2009 11:47 pm
It's been nit-picky as a bunch of tween-age school girls for quite a while.  Yes; there have been things to discuss, but all too often that discussion is catty and sneering. 

Rather tedious, actually.

Seconded. Really, really seconded.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 07/17/2009 02:38 am
BTW, there's a whole slew of new Flight5 photos on the SpaceX update page:

http://www.spacex.com/launch_updates.php

Including some nice aerial shots.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/17/2009 02:43 am
BTW, there's a whole slew of new Flight5 photos on the SpaceX update page:

http://www.spacex.com/launch_updates.php

Including some nice aerial shots.

thanks.. nice clear pictures there.. I hope they release the full length launch in the higher def video that they obviously have...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nick L. on 07/17/2009 02:47 am
Honestly the "nit-picking" is not. It is a new vehicle and we are (I am at least) curious about the various differences between this and what we've seen before, and how they do things differently than other launch providers. How do they approach the common problems of getting to orbit differently from ULA/Arianespace/ILS/etc.? That is true for all vehicles, established or not. I am interested in the unique characteristics of each vehicle (like the fireball on D-IV) and Falcon is no exception. That is at least my motivation.

With that in mind the "fawning"/"cheerleading" is, to me, more irritating, as it is for the most part simply motivated by "yay, there's a launch provider that isn't the big bad establishment!" and not the technical details.

Just my 2 pennies.

Quote
BTW, there's a whole slew of new Flight5 photos on the SpaceX update page:

http://www.spacex.com/launch_updates.php

Including some nice aerial shots.

Awesome photos! Love the aerial shots.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Patchouli on 07/17/2009 03:08 am
I wonder if the upper stages on the F1Es will perform a deorbit burn after payload deployment?
If predictions of the launch market recovering soon are correct it's probably best to start doing some orbital debris mitigation.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: yg1968 on 07/17/2009 03:25 am
With that in mind the "fawning"/"cheerleading" is, to me, more irritating, as it is for the most part simply motivated by "yay, there's a launch provider that isn't the big bad establishment!" and not the technical details.

I think that the cheerleading is mostly motivated by the fact that the SpaceX costs per flight promises to be much cheaper than the competition. SpaceX has a chance to create a space tourism industry and their DragonLab also looks promising. Both of these industries aren't being served by any other commercial companies. At least not currently.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: pippin on 07/17/2009 07:00 am
promises
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: 8900 on 07/17/2009 09:31 am
I have one question to ask

(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1980/ariane5tail.jpg)
(http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/20090716_liftoffheli2.jpg)

the upper one is a photo of Ariane 5 launch and the lower one is a photo of the recent F1 launch
Why Ariane 5 has a long, white "smoke" tail extending from the launch pad to the sky during its ascend, but F1 has nothing except a short yellowish flame tail?
is it something to do with the fuel used? (Ariane 5 uses LOx/LH2 producing water vapor as combustion product while F1 uses kerosene, producing transparent CO2) or is the smoke tail produced by the SRBs on Ariane 5?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Skyrocket on 07/17/2009 09:35 am
Yep, different propellants. Arianes solid fuel boosters produce a lot of smoke, while Korosene/Lox does not.

An Atlas-V launch without boosters (also LOX/Kero) is similar smokeless.
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/330885main_launchHQ-m.jpg
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Skyrocket on 07/17/2009 09:38 am
Addendum: nearly all rockets have Water in their exhaust, which often generates contrails while flying through cold air layers.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/17/2009 10:21 am
Addendum: nearly all rockets have Water in their exhaust, which often generates contrails while flying through cold air layers.

Which tends to occur around max-Q. One of the flight 5 images shows the shadow on the clouds of this contrail.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/17/2009 11:01 am

My messages are not meant to be a "gripe" or complaint.  I only intend to point out that SpaceX could do much better at communicating with the press - and that has little to do with their web site.

Anyone reading this who is a U.S. taxpayer is a "SpaceX customer".  SpaceX has an opportunity to "wow" these "customers", by telling them how it might be able to save them money, for example.

 - Ed Kyle
Yes. And every time they did, in the past, the either got laughed at or accused of "hype" (to put it politely).

If they used good corporate communication practices, they could tell their story factually and still do the "wow" thing. 

 - Ed Kyle

No offense, but that is simply a form of "spin." Quite honestly, hereabouts SpaceX supporters of any stripe are treated in a way recognizably similar to the way DIRECT supporters are treated in certain segments of the blogosphere, i.e., "amazing peoples." It's "not a given," "are you an engineer?" etc. When people made comparable remarks about Sea Launch, for example, nothing of the kind occurred, and yet Sea Launch is now in Chapter 11, just where non-SpaceX supporters confidently predict SpaceX will wind up. I will tell you, the only reason ULA is a "given" and will not wind up in Chapter 11 is because DoD will not permit it (a la the Lockheed bailout of a few decades back). And the only reason SpaceX is not a "given" is because no one with the governmental authority to do so has said, "Make it so."

In my remarks about SpaceX, when discussing the possible future of SpaceX, I have been careful to include the phrase "when and if, if and when, if ever"* but to no avail. "SpaceX is not a given." Now, SpaceX has proven they can design and fabricate a launch vehicle, and use it to place a satellite in low earth orbit. And they have a government fee-for-service contract. What's not "given" about that? They could easily fail, but it's much more about cash flow than engineering now.

* The phrase has a literary antecedent. I think from a novel by the late A. Bertram Chandler (Rim Worlds stories), but my old books are packed away.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/17/2009 02:58 pm
Now *this* is what I'm talking about.  Something important has been happening on a tiny island in the western Pacific.  These two images speak volumes. 

SpaceX have a remarkable story to tell, and they've done a good job of it over the years, but they've been slow to tell it this week, of all weeks, for some reason.   

But enough about all that.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/17/2009 03:12 pm
If you're on this website, you're likely one to want ANYTHING to do with spaceflight to succeed as efficiently as possible, ULA, Orbital, Russians, Chinese, ESA etc. Spacex gets such "amazing peoples" likely from people like me, who want anything space to succeed, it doesn't matter really where it comes from. Having a successful spacex is not mutually exclusive to having success for everyone else. Can't people just be happy when they see good news about spaceflight, why should they get sneered at?

SpaceX is also a lot more ambitious, or at least open about it, which means it's very easy to get behind them and want them to succeed. Wouldn't it be a great thing if they could launch 7 people to the ISS on a rocket in the future? If that is successful, wouldn't it change spaceflight for the better? The way I see it, the more ambitious something is, the more people will want to see it work. That doesn't mean people are blind to failure, it just means they hope for the best.

I guess I just don't understand why wanting SpaceX to succeed is a bad thing...

The only gripes I have with spacex's media coverage is that they don't provide enough status updates on their progress. Is this due to a lack of transparancy due to being a private company? I'm not so sure. It feels like everyone in the space industry keeps very tight lipped.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/17/2009 03:15 pm
If you're on this website, you're likely one to want ANYTHING to do with spaceflight to succeed as efficiently as possible, ULA, Orbital, Russians, Chinese, ESA etc. Spacex gets such "amazing peoples" likely from people like me, who want anything space to succeed, it doesn't matter really where it comes from. Having a successful spacex is not mutually exclusive to having success for everyone else. Can't people just be happy when they see good news about spaceflight, why should they get sneered at?

SpaceX is also a lot more ambitious, or at least open about it, which means it's very easy to get behind them and want them to succeed. Wouldn't it be a great thing if they could launch 7 people to the ISS on a rocket in the future? If that is successful, wouldn't it change spaceflight for the better? The way I see it, the more ambitious something is, the more people will want to see it work. That doesn't mean people are blind to failure, it just means they hope for the best.

I guess I just don't understand why wanting SpaceX to succeed is a bad thing...

The only gripes I have with spacex's media coverage is that they don't provide enough status updates on their progress. Is this due to a lack of transparancy due to being a private company? I'm not so sure. It feels like everyone in the space industry keeps very tight lipped.

agree 100%...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: braddock on 07/17/2009 03:20 pm
Those aerial launch shots are incredible.  How did they get them?  I wouldn't think anything could be flying within miles of the launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/17/2009 03:21 pm
Those aerial launch shots are incredible.  How did they get them?  I wouldn't think anything could be flying within miles of the launch.

Why not... It is probably flying at a safe enough distance to avoid any mishap... Probably using a long range camera as well. I have to say seeing the Falcon just haning there in mid air is quite beautiful...

This one is my personal favourite... :)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/17/2009 03:36 pm
It's the irrational expectation of success or the irrational planning of how things will go post-success-that-hasn't-happened yet.  That's what people get griped at for.

Conversely, the only thing I think that's improperly nit-picked is this post-launch press release.  They should be subject to the same technical scrutiny as anyone else.

And, something I thought of regarding the ULA comparison above: how many more people can name the CEO of SpaceX than can name the CEO of ULA?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/17/2009 03:37 pm
I love the last picture, it's my new desktop. I like seeing the tiny island that the launch takes place from. It seems as far as you can get from the giant launch complexes at the cape, instead of a huge steel complex, just vegetation and a pristene ocean.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/17/2009 03:47 pm
It's the irrational expectation of success or the irrational planning of how things will go post-success-that-hasn't-happened yet.  That's what people get griped at for.

Conversely, the only thing I think that's improperly nit-picked is this post-launch press release.  They should be subject to the same technical scrutiny as anyone else.

And, something I thought of regarding the ULA comparison above: how many more people can name the CEO of SpaceX than can name the CEO of ULA?

Well, the reason I can get hyped about spacex is because I actually didn't expect the F1 flt 5 to succeed just due to it's record. With the Shuttle or other rockets, there's not as much excitement as wonder; with spacex, i'm on the edge of my seat wondering if there's going to be a problem. I guess that just says if you want to make your rockets exciting have the fail half the time =/

I reckon people know a lot more about SpaceX just because it's a lot smaller, it's easier to get to know a company that's up and coming, than a huge corperation ex: it's easier to know the workings of Apple than Microsoft. It's also very new, people like me learn about the company because it grows with them, when I started learning about the space industry ULA was already in place, it just feels a bit intimidating...

Musk like Apple, is a bit of a hype generator, I actually think he spends more time with Tesla than SpaceX, but he really spends his time selling is product. Whether he should spend more time building and managing spacex better rather than selling it better, is beyond me to answer.

I'm a little suprised that people expect SpaceX to succeed, especially when they've had a pretty rocky start. Stating that SpaceX will be successful as a *fact*, that's going too far IMHO.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: HOTTOL on 07/17/2009 04:37 pm
Did you notice the fairly large dent in the interstage rim just after stage sep ? !
I'm nearly sure to see both stages shaking a bit at the beginning of stage sep sequence. Some lock being ruptured at that point ?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/17/2009 07:09 pm

I thought that was ice on the camera lense... (your reffering to the big white cloud like chunk missing from the interstage, right?)

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: nooneofconsequence on 07/17/2009 07:27 pm
It doesn't suit Space-X to crow at the moment. They are playing at a bigger game you are not looking at.

When they do next crow, it will be deafening. Need not worry about them someway losing their voice or having a personality transplant ...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mmeijeri on 07/17/2009 07:33 pm
Can you say more Gandalf? ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/17/2009 07:34 pm
I dunno what you mean by "bigger game" I think they're really concentrated on getting COTS done properly. They may have dreams of something bigger, but I don't think they'll try anything else until Dragon's up and running.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: HOTTOL on 07/17/2009 09:31 pm

I thought that was ice on the camera lense... (your reffering to the big white cloud like chunk missing from the interstage, right?)



Yes Kevin, this is what I'm refering to.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: HMXHMX on 07/18/2009 12:22 am

I thought that was ice on the camera lense... (your reffering to the big white cloud like chunk missing from the interstage, right?)



Yes Kevin, this is what I'm refering to.

It was ice or other debris.  It's pretty clear on the video.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Nascent Ascent on 07/18/2009 12:43 am
Regarding fawning and crowing...

I can understand this and sympathize with this more than I can the nitpicking.

Frankly, it's exciting to think about a vigorous and successful private company being able to launch hardware and humans into space.

It's particularly exciting to think about this in light of the fickle and inconsistent support of our Federal government.

This 40th anniversary drives home this point even more so.

We've seen decades of wasted opportunities and half-hearted attempts.  And even the good concepts - were squandered by cost cutting and numerous changes of direction by new Presidential administrations.  It's now more a political football that gets kicked around from time to time. 

And I'm really afraid Obama is going be an un-supporter and do very little - and this is really ironic considering the massive nonsense pork spending he and his Democratic friends are currently engaging in.

So, yeah,  I'm kind of burned out with our US manned space program.

Therefore, I can understand why someone might be a bit of SpaceX pollyanna. It's refreshing to see someone (Musk) with deep pockets and a vision and the chutzpah to back up his words with REAL action.  Yes, SpaceX has made some mistakes and they'll make more.  But at least they are doing something.

And I'd much rather fawn and crow over a good or mediocre plan implemented now, than a half-baked plan watered down and implemented on an ever-changing budget.  We've had enough of that over the past 35 years, thank you very much.

NA
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: stockman on 07/18/2009 02:50 am
Regarding fawning and crowing...

I can understand this and sympathize with this more than I can the nitpicking.

Frankly, it's exciting to think about a vigorous and successful private company being able to launch hardware and humans into space.

It's particularly exciting to think about this in light of the fickle and inconsistent support of our Federal government.

This 40th anniversary drives home this point even more so.

We've seen decades of wasted opportunities and half-hearted attempts.  And even the good concepts - were squandered by cost cutting and numerous changes of direction by new Presidential administrations.  It's now more a political football that gets kicked around from time to time. 

And I'm really afraid Obama is going be an un-supporter and do very little - and this is really ironic considering the massive nonsense pork spending he and his Democratic friends are currently engaging in.

So, yeah,  I'm kind of burned out with our US manned space program.

Therefore, I can understand why someone might be a bit of SpaceX pollyanna. It's refreshing to see someone (Musk) with deep pockets and a vision and the chutzpah to back up his words with REAL action.  Yes, SpaceX has made some mistakes and they'll make more.  But at least they are doing something.

And I'd much rather fawn and crow over a good or mediocre plan implemented now, than a half-baked plan watered down and implemented on an ever-changing budget.  We've had enough of that over the past 35 years, thank you very much.

NA


Another great summary and  statement that I fully agree with.. well said.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mlorrey on 07/18/2009 02:54 am
Better than the school girl gushing and fawning that occurs more often

Honestly, the fawning and nitpicking are about the same on the annoyance scale.

Well some of us grew up being taught "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all..." I'd much rather be a gusher than a trasher, particularly about people who are also positive, and forward looking, and energetic, and moreover, not wasting my money on bureaucratic games.

Which would you rather be around, the bubbly positive girl who works her way through school and pays her own way, or the bitchy snobby girl who expects you to pay for everything?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: MP99 on 07/18/2009 09:18 am
SpaceX have a remarkable story to tell, and they've done a good job of it over the years, but they've been slow to tell it this week, of all weeks, for some reason.   


The only gripes I have with spacex's media coverage is that they don't provide enough status updates on their progress. Is this due to a lack of transparancy due to being a private company? I'm not so sure. It feels like everyone in the space industry keeps very tight lipped.


When they were assembling Falcon 9 at the Cape early this year, the updates seemed nearly continuous - and it was great.

The contrast with this, where they have only their second successful flight (and by no means a foregone conclusion that it would succeed IMO) is astonishing - hard to believe it's the same company. Although they're plainly focusing all their effort on F9, this is a big step forward for that programme, too - it validates common components, construction methods, procedures, design principles, and edges forward my personal hope that F9 flight 1 will perform to the level of F1 flight 2 - a partial launch success, most major systems demonstrated, lots of test data generated so that flight 2 has a chance of reaching orbit and at least testing Dragon re-entry.


Musk like Apple, is a bit of a hype generator, I actually think he spends more time with Tesla than SpaceX, but he really spends his time selling is product. Whether he should spend more time building and managing spacex better rather than selling it better, is beyond me to answer.

Well, "Musk like Steve Jobs" - and look what happened to Apple's share price when he took ill.

Not saying Musk is ill, but is he having to spend so much time with Tesla at the moment that he can't even do a bit of hype for only SpaceX's second successful launch?

The noise on this thread is justified to the extent that this is a complete change of MO for a company not shy of publicity before. Could this be in some way to do with the COTS relationship with NASA?

cheers, Martin
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/18/2009 01:46 pm

Which would you rather be around, the bubbly positive girl who works her way through school and pays her own way, or the bitchy snobby girl who expects you to pay for everything?

The one that gets you .....................   ;)

Which basically means the one who gets you to orbit.

As for "paying" the way, Spacex has received more money from NASA than Musk has put in.  This is the opposite of the EELV development.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/18/2009 04:10 pm
Quote
When they were assembling Falcon 9 at the Cape early this year, the updates seemed nearly continuous - and it was great.

The contrast with this, where they have only their second successful flight (and by no means a foregone conclusion that it would succeed IMO) is astonishing - hard to believe it's the same company.

I'm sorry.  Are y'all illiterate?  51D told us why SpaceX didn't go crazy with PR's early in the week: the customer, Malaysian ATSB, wanted to be the first to the press.  It did seem out of character before that nugget was shared with us, but that explained it.  Stop being blind and use this valuable forum for its insider info.

Quote
Therefore, I can understand why someone might be a bit of SpaceX pollyanna. It's refreshing to see someone (Musk) with deep pockets and a vision and the chutzpah to back up his words with REAL action.  Yes, SpaceX has made some mistakes and they'll make more.

The problem is they are making the same mistakes others have made when the lessons learned are widely available.  This is largely due to a lack of systems engineering in their approach, though it's increasing.  Because Elon said he thinks/thought systems engineering is an unwarranted artifact of the government approach to development, I blame his ego.  He and his company are learning, though, evidenced by the last 2 Falcon 1's.  The question is how many IFA's buried themselves in the design of F9 and Dragon before the robustness was institutionalized.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: nooneofconsequence on 07/18/2009 04:47 pm
As for "paying" the way, Spacex has received more money from NASA than Musk has put in.  This is the opposite of the EELV development.
Different times & history. Different objectives & scope. Way different risks - as you know.

Required a different approach. So far its working.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Comga on 07/18/2009 04:49 pm
<snip> The question is how many FA's buried themselves in the design of F9 and Dragon before the robustness was institutionalized.

Pardon me but "FA's"?  Flight Anomalies? Faulty Analysis? Foolish Answers? Failed Anachronisms?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/18/2009 04:53 pm
Failed acronym on my part I suppose ;) Flight Anomaly.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 07/18/2009 04:55 pm
Failed acronym on my part I suppose ;) Flight Anomaly.

That certainly makes more sense in the above sentence than Failure Analysis!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cixelsyD on 07/18/2009 06:48 pm
I'm sorry.  Are y'all illiterate?  51D told us why SpaceX didn't go crazy with PR's early in the week: the customer, Malaysian ATSB, wanted to be the first to the press.  It did seem out of character before that nugget was shared with us, but that explained it.  Stop being blind and use this valuable forum for its insider info.

Well I'm fine with no updates on the F1 flt 5, I didn't complain about that. I was saying that the F9 could use more updates. The last one was a month ago, and the one before that I believe many months prior. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind seeing a blog on their progress or something of the sort.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/18/2009 07:39 pm
Well I'm fine with no updates on the F1 flt 5, I didn't complain about that. I was saying that the F9 could use more updates. The last one was a month ago, and the one before that I believe many months prior. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind seeing a blog on their progress or something of the sort.

Prior to the end of the year last year, SpaceX's updates came at a pace of one every 1 or 2 months.  I expect that pace to continue right up until October, then a flurry before launch.  If you read the last update they will have a lot to brag about around August 1st, if all goes according to plan.

Keep checking the updates forum on the forum, because SpaceX is great about giving the watchers information at conferences like the one happening this weekend.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/18/2009 09:16 pm
It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.
By the way it their second successfully launch not first one, as you mention.

No, they didn't operate the payload separation system on the first mission, which was otherwise successful but therefore not "full".

If I follow your logic of successfully mission,
Apollo 7,8,9,10 were not successful full missions because they didn't land on the Moon? Are you kidding me?
In my opinion full successfully mission if I achieve my objectives. falcon I flight 1,2,3 were not successfully missions, they plan to achieve orbit.But flight 4 and 5 was it.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/18/2009 09:21 pm
Did you predicted same fate for flight 4 and 5. If you check flight compare with rocket it was perfect. The only more stable is Space shuttle, if you check pictures. But it cost 1 billion one flight ouch.

First off, figure out which user you're replying to- I'm a different Jim than the fellow you're thinking of.  And I've been generally very supportive of SpaceX.  When they do well, I call it, and if I see otherwise I call that too.

Second, this launch was not perfect, nor was this launch campaign perfict (vibration isolators, microsat removal, anyone?)

Third, regarding
Quote
The only more stable is Space shuttle, if you check pictures.

I have friends working on other launch vehicles whom would not agree with that assessment.  We'll have to agree to disagree.

SpaceX did put a customer spacecraft in orbit, and I welcome the arrival of another company that can provide launch services.  It's good for me, we only build spacecraft, instruments, and subsystems.  Affordable launch is great for me, it means more opportunities for customers to spend their dollars on my hardware rather than send those very dollars to a launch services provider. 

Regarding the shuttle, that's just sour grapes.  I'm in the camp of the folks wanting a new exploration system that is affordable, but will tip my hat to the STS- when they're retired and in museums, there may not be anything like them for generations to come.

Please let me know what give them this conclusion. Do they have flight data for Falcon I flight 5. what i did it I watch all available launch on youtube and try to compare them. My conclusion about instability of Falcon are nonsense, other rocket mostly more unstable too and more violently.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/18/2009 09:25 pm
If my memory serves me correctly I believe Elon stated that he would probably never see profitability from the Falcon 1.  Setting aside the obvious discussion on accounting methods I would venture to say the "1" is almost profit free at the current price they offer or priced with a margin but not expecting the volume needed to put to rest the large r & d budget incured when they were putting the company together.  I would bet against an earlier comment that it is a "loss leader" such as some stores provide to get customers in the door though that is certainly a possibility.

I will be not so sure. They have almost total control over production cost 90% items build in house. And if they will able to recover 1 stage, they will be almost no limit lower cost. They could learn how change to survive better in ocean and how to refurbish faster.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/18/2009 09:27 pm
other rocket mostly more unstable too and more violently.

Huh?  Where is your data for this?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/18/2009 09:47 pm
If you're on this website, you're likely one to want ANYTHING to do with spaceflight to succeed as efficiently as possible, ULA, Orbital, Russians, Chinese, ESA etc. Spacex gets such "amazing peoples" likely from people like me, who want anything space to succeed, it doesn't matter really where it comes from. Having a successful spacex is not mutually exclusive to having success for everyone else. Can't people just be happy when they see good news about spaceflight, why should they get sneered at?

SpaceX is also a lot more ambitious, or at least open about it, which means it's very easy to get behind them and want them to succeed. Wouldn't it be a great thing if they could launch 7 people to the ISS on a rocket in the future? If that is successful, wouldn't it change spaceflight for the better? The way I see it, the more ambitious something is, the more people will want to see it work. That doesn't mean people are blind to failure, it just means they hope for the best.

I guess I just don't understand why wanting SpaceX to succeed is a bad thing...

The only gripes I have with spacex's media coverage is that they don't provide enough status updates on their progress. Is this due to a lack of transparancy due to being a private company? I'm not so sure. It feels like everyone in the space industry keeps very tight lipped.
nicely express, this is reason I fan of  spacex for 6 years.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: jhoblik on 07/18/2009 10:00 pm
other rocket mostly more unstable too and more violently.

Huh?  Where is your data for this?
where are your data. I watch 20 launch videos of different rockets and compare them.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/18/2009 10:08 pm
other rocket mostly more unstable too and more violently.

Huh?  Where is your data for this?
where are your data. I watch 20 launch videos of different rockets and compare them.

Oh boy.  This is going to be fun.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Paul Adams on 07/18/2009 10:19 pm
Let the games begin!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/18/2009 10:22 pm
other rocket mostly more unstable too and more violently.

Huh?  Where is your data for this?
where are your data. I watch 20 launch videos of different rockets and compare them.

this is too easy.  I will let some one else step in
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: nomadd22 on 07/18/2009 11:00 pm
other rocket mostly more unstable too and more violently.

Huh?  Where is your data for this?
where are your data. I watch 20 launch videos of different rockets and compare them.

this is too easy.  I will let some one else step in

 You might want to spend a little more time browsing the forum. Although you're not likely to find me and Jim going to see Brokeback Mountain any time soon, I and anybody else who frequents this place will admit that he knows more about the launch systems of the last fifty years and their performance than any other four people combined.
 You best pick another battle.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Art LeBrun on 07/18/2009 11:25 pm
Hey, hey (facetiously)) - where is the video for Atlas 179D in launching Mariner II? Supposedly 36 rolls before stabilizing (vernier lockover).


Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Danderman on 07/19/2009 12:41 am
Hey, hey (facetiously)) - where is the video for Atlas 179D in launching Mariner II? Supposedly 36 rolls before stabilizing (vernier lockover).

I knew an engineer involved in that launch, and he told me that the rolls actually secured some loose part that generated the rolls in the first place.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mlorrey on 07/19/2009 01:51 am
If my memory serves me correctly I believe Elon stated that he would probably never see profitability from the Falcon 1.  Setting aside the obvious discussion on accounting methods I would venture to say the "1" is almost profit free at the current price they offer or priced with a margin but not expecting the volume needed to put to rest the large r & d budget incured when they were putting the company together.  I would bet against an earlier comment that it is a "loss leader" such as some stores provide to get customers in the door though that is certainly a possibility.

I will be not so sure. They have almost total control over production cost 90% items build in house. And if they will able to recover 1 stage, they will be almost no limit lower cost. They could learn how change to survive better in ocean and how to refurbish faster.

BTW: What happened with recovery of the first stage on this mission, wasn't that going to be attempted?

Personally I dont see why someone doesn't develop a one-man capsule to fly on Falcon 1. I imagine the USAF would go nuts for one man orbital fighters/satellite inspectors.

Here's a basic schematic of the idea:
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: dunderwood on 07/19/2009 03:43 am
Quote
Personally I dont see why someone doesn't develop a one-man capsule to fly on Falcon 1. I imagine the USAF would go nuts for one man orbital fighters/satellite inspectors.

Orbital fighter?  What exactly are you going to fight?  Satellite inspector?  How much maneuvering fuel does that capsule contain?

Any capsule on F1 would be have to be Mercury style or smaller.  Little bit of attitude control, and some retros.  I don't think you have the mass to put up a lifting body reentry vehicle.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/19/2009 12:26 pm

Here's a basic schematic of the idea:

A.  The launch costs are more than 8 million
B.  The F1 would have trouble with the wings
3.  Your cost numbers have no basis in reality, even going by Musk's proposed Dragonlab numbers
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/19/2009 03:22 pm
Personally I dont see why someone doesn't develop a one-man capsule to fly on Falcon 1. I imagine the USAF would go nuts for one man orbital fighters/satellite inspectors.

Here's a basic schematic of the idea:

You are WAY underestimating the weight of the vehicle you drew.  Facon 1 can carry 950 lbs into orbit.  TPS, Pressure vessel, fuel, wings, engines, and a person are not going to fit in 950 lbs easily.

To put this in perspective
(http://www.eaglerider.com/Image.axd?ImageID=331)
Falcon 1 could put this motorcycle with a 10 year old girl wearing a bathing suit into orbit.  Now for this to work you have to make a capsule of the same mass as this motorcycle, and find a 100 lb person to fly it, and die if any component of the vehicle doesn't work perfectly.  Good luck


Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Antares on 07/19/2009 03:50 pm
It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.
By the way it their second successfully launch not first one, as you mention.
No, they didn't operate the payload separation system on the first mission, which was otherwise successful but therefore not "full".
If I follow your logic of successfully mission,
Apollo 7,8,9,10 were not successful full missions because they didn't land on the Moon? Are you kidding me?
In my opinion full successfully mission if I achieve my objectives. falcon I flight 1,2,3 were not successfully missions, they plan to achieve orbit.But flight 4 and 5 was it.

There is a difference between a fully successful mission and a successful full mission, depending on what the operational purpose of full missions is after flight tests are over.  Apollo 7-10 were not successful full moon-landing missions, but they weren't meant to be.  Similar with Falcon 1.4.  It met all of its stated objectives, but it did not separate a spacecraft, which with a post-sep CCAM I would define as making a full mission when the intent of the operational system is satellite launches.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Patchouli on 07/19/2009 04:01 pm
Personally I dont see why someone doesn't develop a one-man capsule to fly on Falcon 1. I imagine the USAF would go nuts for one man orbital fighters/satellite inspectors.

Here's a basic schematic of the idea:

You are WAY underestimating the weight of the vehicle you drew.  Facon 1 can carry 950 lbs into orbit.  TPS, Pressure vessel, fuel, wings, engines, and a person are not going to fit in 950 lbs easily.


Actually it would be possible for someone could ride a falcon 1 up but it would be dangerous.
You'd be limited to the 3 to 9 hour life support duration of the space suit and a reentry system with little redundancy.
Think of it as the ultimate parachute high jump.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/moose.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/paracone.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/geleraft.htm
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/19/2009 04:56 pm

Personally I dont see why someone doesn't develop a one-man capsule to fly on Falcon 1. I imagine the USAF would go nuts for one man orbital fighters/satellite inspectors.

Falcon 1 can lift, supposely, 470 kg to a LEO when launched straight east from Kwajalein.  It has only demonstrated something like 180 kg to date.  It would only be able to lift perhaps 290 kg to the sun sync orbit used by most spy satellites.  Either way, not enough mass for a manned spacecraft.  The Mercury capsule weighed something like 1.4 tonnes, not including the escape rocket.  It was only able to stay in orbit for one day, and could not change its orbit.     

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kkattula on 07/19/2009 07:23 pm
Falcon 1e, which all future Falcon 1 launches will be, will supposedly lift over 1,000 kg.

Somewhere there is a thread discussing whether a modern day Mercury could mass less than 1,000 kg.  I think it could.  LAS might be a bit tricky.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/19/2009 08:05 pm
Falcon 1e, which all future Falcon 1 launches will be, will supposedly lift over 1,000 kg.

Somewhere there is a thread discussing whether a modern day Mercury could mass less than 1,000 kg.  I think it could.  LAS might be a bit tricky.

Maybe 1 tonne to the 9 deg orbit, but Falcon 1e would still only be doing something like 600 to 650 kg maybe to a polar orbit.  Even assuming 1 tonne, such a spacecraft isn't going to be able to change its orbit significantly, which it would have to do to "inspect" satellites as was suggested in the original post - unless the inspections were planned to be quick flybys, in which case a human pilot would be useless.

Falcon 1 might be able to lift people on suborbital shots.  Multi-million dollar 15 minute joyrides.  (Not from Kwajalein though.)

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 07/19/2009 08:14 pm
Falcon 1 might be able to lift people on suborbital shots.  Multi-million dollar 15 minute joyrides.  (Not from Kwajalein though.)

You know that there are people who would pay for it. ;D

I'll hang around for Dragon to be proven and the seat price to go down a tad though.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: MKremer on 07/19/2009 08:45 pm
Falcon 1 might be able to lift people on suborbital shots.  Multi-million dollar 15 minute joyrides.  (Not from Kwajalein though.)

You know that there are people who would pay for it. ;D

Sure. They could market it as "Relive the experiences of the first Mercury astronauts!"
(complete with waiting in choppy seas for recovery  :D )
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/19/2009 08:48 pm
Falcon 1e, which all future Falcon 1 launches will be, will supposedly lift over 1,000 kg.

Somewhere there is a thread discussing whether a modern day Mercury could mass less than 1,000 kg.  I think it could.  LAS might be a bit tricky.

Maybe if you burned the LAS for added delta-V after SECO and sep, it would at least pay for its own mass?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: William Barton on 07/19/2009 08:49 pm
Falcon 1 might be able to lift people on suborbital shots.  Multi-million dollar 15 minute joyrides.  (Not from Kwajalein though.)

You know that there are people who would pay for it. ;D

I'll hang around for Dragon to be proven and the seat price to go down a tad though.

With any luck at all, seat prices will come down to my range while I'm still younger than Methuselah!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mmeijeri on 07/19/2009 08:50 pm
Maybe if you burned the LAS for added delta-V after SECO and sep, it would at least pay for its own mass?

Now there's an interesting suggestion! I don't know if it would work, but it's certainly an original idea. It might turn out not to be a good idea of course...
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: MKremer on 07/19/2009 09:05 pm
Maybe if you burned the LAS for added delta-V after SECO and sep, it would at least pay for its own mass?

Now there's an interesting suggestion! I don't know if it would work, but it's certainly an original idea. It might turn out not to be a good idea of course...

Adds additional complexity (and increases LOM/LOC risk numbers). KISS is to eject the LAS as soon as possible after ignition of the final stage to orbit, and add the LAS's mass into the boost calculations. (and if there's not enough confidence in that orbital stage to do it that way, it's time to redesign)

Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/19/2009 09:20 pm
Maybe if you burned the LAS for added delta-V after SECO and sep, it would at least pay for its own mass?

Now there's an interesting suggestion! I don't know if it would work, but it's certainly an original idea. It might turn out not to be a good idea of course...

Old idea
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mlorrey on 07/19/2009 11:37 pm

Here's a basic schematic of the idea:

A.  The launch costs are more than 8 million
B.  The F1 would have trouble with the wings
3.  Your cost numbers have no basis in reality, even going by Musk's proposed Dragonlab numbers

A. All the news reports say its an 8 million dollar launch cost. This 2003 article on spacex.com quotes $6 million: https://spacex.com/media.php?page=6. Spaceref quotes $6.7 million: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18353  DailyKos says $8 million: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/14/753329/-Yesterday-began-the-dawn-of-a-new-era-in-space-exploration
B. Falcon might have trouble with the wings, thats for some simulator and wind tunnel time to determine. Its not that hard to design a vehicle to develop zero lift at zero angle of attack. The design as is keeps the wings clear of the upper stage.
C. Richard Garriot just paid $35 million for a ride on Soyuz, so the competitors numbers are accurate. The soyuz ride price tends to vary with the Ruble/Dollar exchange rate, which is highly dependent on oil prices. earlier this year or last, russia had upped the price to $47 mil but dropped it down recently. They are still charging NASA $47 million a seat for soyuz rides to ISS.

Given my quote on the cost of the F1 launch costs, plus some added costs to handle a manned payload (50% markup is significant), and avoiding the design stupidities of the Shuttle, the costs are reasonable. Even allowing for a budget to develop the pod at over $100 million using SpaceX manufacturing techniques and amortizing those costs over 40 flights per pod.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Jim on 07/19/2009 11:43 pm

B. Falcon might have trouble with the wings, thats for some simulator and wind tunnel time to determine. Its not that hard to design a vehicle to develop zero lift at zero angle of attack. The design as is keeps the wings clear of the upper stage.
C. Richard Garriot just paid $35 million for a ride on Soyuz,


b.  The issue is that a zero AOA flight is impossible and then there are gusts

C.  The numbers  I refer to that have no basis in reality is your per unit cost of the spacecraft. 

You haven't done anything except powerpoint concepts.  When have you bent metal on a real spacecraft?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: iamlucky13 on 07/19/2009 11:44 pm
Falcon 1e, which all future Falcon 1 launches will be, will supposedly lift over 1,000 kg.

Somewhere there is a thread discussing whether a modern day Mercury could mass less than 1,000 kg.  I think it could.  LAS might be a bit tricky.

Wikipedia lists the masses of Mercury-Atlas 6 at 1935 kg at liftoff (includes LAS?) and 1354 kg in orbit. Mercury capsules had no OMS...just a basic RCS and a set of solid-fueled retro rockets.

I'd bet you could, for enough risk acceptance, make a spacecraft light enough for an F-1e, but I certainly wouldn't ride it.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/19/2009 11:59 pm
Lets keep this on topic or I may as well lock it, thanks.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: NUAETIUS on 07/20/2009 12:22 am
Lets keep this on topic or I may as well lock it, thanks.

There is really not much else to talk about for this launch, no accident report, vehicle is in the proper orbit, all pictures that are likely to get released have been.

I say lock it for a few weeks, that way the chatter about the next manned Falcon 1s and SpaceX PR debate.  This thread is 15 pages too long and growing.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mlorrey on 07/20/2009 02:45 am
Falcon 1e, which all future Falcon 1 launches will be, will supposedly lift over 1,000 kg.

Somewhere there is a thread discussing whether a modern day Mercury could mass less than 1,000 kg.  I think it could.  LAS might be a bit tricky.

Quite right. Minus the escape tower, Mercury was 1354 kg. Personally I consider escape towers as a waste of mass and money. Most launch mishaps are going to be on the pad or a second stage separation/ignition failure. In the first case you wont survive even with an escape tower, in the second you dont need an escape tower.

So, can we drop the mass by 1/4? Thats not hard with modern technologies. In my experience with high performance fighter jets compared to 1950's era technology, the 1950's tech tended to be 40-50% avionics mass as a percent of dry weight. Clearly with modern electronics technologies, we can cut that mass by 80-90%. I can't find a Mercury mass budget T.O., can someone post one up if they have it?
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: mlorrey on 07/20/2009 02:48 am

B. Falcon might have trouble with the wings, thats for some simulator and wind tunnel time to determine. Its not that hard to design a vehicle to develop zero lift at zero angle of attack. The design as is keeps the wings clear of the upper stage.
C. Richard Garriot just paid $35 million for a ride on Soyuz,


b.  The issue is that a zero AOA flight is impossible and then there are gusts

C.  The numbers  I refer to that have no basis in reality is your per unit cost of the spacecraft. 

You haven't done anything except powerpoint concepts.  When have you bent metal on a real spacecraft?

Real spacecraft, no. Real fighter aircraft, yes. Aerospace engineering, from my education, is pretty common between spacecraft and high performance aircraft. Not completely so, but enough.

Zero AOA isnt impossible at all, particularly given a ballistic trajectory.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Art LeBrun on 07/20/2009 03:03 am
Falcon 1e, which all future Falcon 1 launches will be, will supposedly lift over 1,000 kg.

Somewhere there is a thread discussing whether a modern day Mercury could mass less than 1,000 kg.  I think it could.  LAS might be a bit tricky.

Quite right. Minus the escape tower, Mercury was 1354 kg. Personally I consider escape towers as a waste of mass and money. Most launch mishaps are going to be on the pad or a second stage separation/ignition failure. In the first case you wont survive even with an escape tower, in the second you dont need an escape tower.


In the days of Mercury there were many failure modes beyond what you stated. Also on pad failures are very escapable due to abort sensing instrumentation and that fact that rockets almost never abruptly explode on the pad (Atlas 11F might be the exception).
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: The-Hammer on 07/20/2009 03:09 am
I consider escape towers as a waste of mass and money. Most launch mishaps are going to be on the pad or a second stage separation/ignition failure. In the first case you wont survive even with an escape tower, in the second you dont need an escape tower.

I'm certain Vasili Lazarev, Oleg Makarov, Vladimir Titov and Gennady Strekalov would disagree.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Chandonn on 07/20/2009 03:32 am
Lets keep this on topic or I may as well lock it, thanks.

There is really not much else to talk about for this launch, no accident report, vehicle is in the proper orbit, all pictures that are likely to get released have been.

I say lock it for a few weeks, that way the chatter about the next manned Falcon 1s and SpaceX PR debate.  This thread is 15 pages too long and growing.

AGREED!  The launch was successful, the satellite is in orbit, and the Falcon 1 is over (now on to the Falcon 9 and the Falcon 1e).  The conversation is getting way off-topic and tedious.  It is time to close the thread.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: kkattula on 07/20/2009 05:54 am
Agreed.

Move the capsule discussion back to here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=13815.msg321757;topicseen#new
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: Carl G on 08/02/2009 05:05 am
Unlocked, as there's no reason for it to be locked.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: cuddihy on 08/03/2009 02:44 am

A. All the news reports say its an 8 million dollar launch cost. This 2003 article on spacex.com quotes $6 million: https://spacex.com/media.php?page=6. Spaceref quotes $6.7 million: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18353  DailyKos says $8 million: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/14/753329/-Yesterday-began-the-dawn-of-a-new-era-in-space-exploration


I believe those numbers are from when SpaceX was trying to drum up customers (theoretical supply exceeded demand). Now they have more missions on their manifest than they can handle.

Let's do some math on supportability at profit:

First, some non-negotiables:
Range fees and related govt services for launch: $140-160,000
US Merchant ship from Long Beach to Omelek for first stage: $200-350,000. (likely higher because no paying cargo on return)
Two-way C130 from CA to Kwaj for second stage: $90-100,000.

Ok, so your transportation and range fees have left you with $7.5 Million for everything else, including pad techs, launch and flight support engineers (some travel costs assoc), machinsts, materials, and fuel (including fuel to support your Omelek facility generators)

First split out the 1st stage engine. Say a Merlin 1C costs you $750,000. I think too low, but it's a start.

Okay, so a little over $6.7M left. Let's make this easy and assume the materiel for the rest of the rocket cost $0.01 total.

Now, if you figure an average engineer / technician /machinist cost of
$150,000/ year, that buys you only 45 people at a launch rate of 1/year. That's the rate they currently have planned, by the way.

But we know they have 4-5 people out in Omelek. So that's actually only 40 people to work on your rocket. Is that in any way sustainable?

Say they quadruple their launch rate. Ok, now you have 180 people to build your rocket... or rather 180 people to build one rocket every three months. Is that workable? Unlikely.

We know that SpaceX had north of 500 people, probably at least a third to a half of whom were focused on ensuring their first commercial flight went off right, while they spent 9 months building and preparing flight 5.

You can only guesstimate so much. But it's a pretty safe bet that Falcon 1 isn't sustainable at $8Million, either at a flight rate of 1 a year or 4 a year.

My spidey intution says an optimal flight rate for a F1 sized rocket at $8 Million per launch is between 12-14 launches per year (at least 1 a month). Oh, and do it from CONUS.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: corrodedNut on 08/04/2009 04:23 pm
SpaceX now has Hi-res images of F1 flight5 on their photo page:

https://spacex.com/photo_gallery.php

Three different shots, enjoy!
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14
Post by: ugordan on 08/04/2009 04:48 pm
SpaceX now has Hi-res images of F1 flight5 on their photo page:

I was kinda hoping those 3 would be the helicopter shots. Turns out it's the same 3 high res ground shots that went out with the press release, but never made it on their site in full res.