Quote from: deltaMass on 07/29/2015 04:04 pmIf he is still using the ARC balance, then it uses special "C-flexural" bearings. These come with an intrinsic restoring force and prevent the balance from acting like a ballistic galvanometer.http://c-flex.com/These bearings are now beloved these many years by Woodward. As a matter of fact, right after the "null result report" by Tajmar and Buldrini re. a Woodward Effect experiment they reported upon at STAIF2006, Tom Mahood (an ex-student of Woodward whose M.Sc. thesis was on the Woodward Effect) went off to his well-equipped home workshop and ran up the "ARClite", which Woodward has used ever since. It was a copy of the Buldrini design.Therefore, it is most likely that this persistent measured force is a real force and really is persistent.He says he used a knife edge balance, which is what's shown in the photo. There is no bearing. The only restoring force is gravity acting on the counter weight. He's counter-balanced the EM drive to the resolution of 1 uN of force. Which means, the restoring force must be < 1 uN. I would agree that IF there were a bearing with a restoring force, then to persist in the displaced position would require a continuous force. But given that it was simply a knife edge, there is nothing but gravity to restore the displacement back to the origin. A good control test would've been to displace the EM drive to this level of displacement with the power off, and then determine how long it takes to restore the displacement back to the origin.IMO, the correlation with temperature is a red herring. Both are slow to change and he didn't do anything to investigate if they are or are not correlated.Todd
If he is still using the ARC balance, then it uses special "C-flexural" bearings. These come with an intrinsic restoring force and prevent the balance from acting like a ballistic galvanometer.http://c-flex.com/These bearings are now beloved these many years by Woodward. As a matter of fact, right after the "null result report" by Tajmar and Buldrini re. a Woodward Effect experiment they reported upon at STAIF2006, Tom Mahood (an ex-student of Woodward whose M.Sc. thesis was on the Woodward Effect) went off to his well-equipped home workshop and ran up the "ARClite", which Woodward has used ever since. It was a copy of the Buldrini design.Therefore, it is most likely that this persistent measured force is a real force and really is persistent.
Quote from: JasonAW3 on 07/29/2015 05:06 pmWelp, Looks like either there really is something to this EM Drive or as CalTech physicist Sean Carroll says, “My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time...”http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809 An old saying is that, when a scientist says something is impossible, then he is most assuridly wrong.OK, here's the "physicist" with the not-so-well thought out response (couldn't remember, thks). Caltech as well...nice. I bet he is an inspiration to all his students and institution.Its taken me a couple of days to analyze and read the most recent test results; months, overall to figure out what the story is. This guy spouts off within hours indicates his "insight" is not 20/20.Regardless, he'd best read NSF for analysis of potential problems with the recent test plus improvements that can be made. Critics without solutions or real efforts are simply wasting bandwidth...IOW, a very low Q factor
Welp, Looks like either there really is something to this EM Drive or as CalTech physicist Sean Carroll says, “My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time...”http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809 An old saying is that, when a scientist says something is impossible, then he is most assuridly wrong.
An old saying is that, when a scientist says something is impossible, then he is most assuridly wrong.
Quote from: LasJayhawk on 07/29/2015 05:04 pmIf I am to presume that I can get thrust out of this thing by exciting modes in the microwave band, I'm forced to assume the same thing could happen in the infrared band.In that case the residual heat could be stimulating the EM drive effect (assuming it exists, or course) That's assuming an infrared reflector is in place in the apparatus. I don't think so.
If I am to presume that I can get thrust out of this thing by exciting modes in the microwave band, I'm forced to assume the same thing could happen in the infrared band.In that case the residual heat could be stimulating the EM drive effect (assuming it exists, or course)
NSF-1701 - 245x261x261 Yang-Shell - 229x196x196 This is the final summary output from the log file.run 0 finished at t = 13.054 (6527 timesteps)Total number of slices 14, the last 14 of 32 full cycles, or periods at 0.1 period intervals. That is, at 30.7, 30.8 and so forth to 32.0 periods of the drive center frequency.Number of time steps, 6527 and total meep time = 13.054 time units.
Same antenna, 58 mm in the y direction, Ez excitation.(set! antlongx 0) ; direction vector of dipole antenna SI units(set! antlongy 0.058) ; = 58 mm(set! antlongz 0)
Quote from: rfmwguy on 07/29/2015 05:19 pmQuote from: JasonAW3 on 07/29/2015 05:06 pmWelp, Looks like either there really is something to this EM Drive or as CalTech physicist Sean Carroll says, “My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time...”http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809 An old saying is that, when a scientist says something is impossible, then he is most assuridly wrong.OK, here's the "physicist" with the not-so-well thought out response (couldn't remember, thks). Caltech as well...nice. I bet he is an inspiration to all his students and institution.Its taken me a couple of days to analyze and read the most recent test results; months, overall to figure out what the story is. This guy spouts off within hours indicates his "insight" is not 20/20.Regardless, he'd best read NSF for analysis of potential problems with the recent test plus improvements that can be made. Critics without solutions or real efforts are simply wasting bandwidth...IOW, a very low Q factor Isn't that the third time that critical article has been linked to in this thread.
What is the point of spending one's life evincing physical law when one doesn't stand behind the theory and the myriads of experiments which back up that theory? Carroll's reaction is entirely natural and understandable. He is also smarter than most (all?) here. Don't be so quick to judge - he isn't. He has 400 years of theory and experience at his back. That's a slow burn of hard-won knowledge and observation of how our world works. It's called "science".
...Carroll's reaction is entirely natural and understandable. He is also smarter than most (all?) here. Don't be so quick to judge - he isn't. He has 400 years of theory and experience at his back. That's a slow burn of hard-won knowledge and observation of how our world works. It's called "science".
Quote from: deltaMass on 07/29/2015 05:57 pmWhat is the point of spending one's life evincing physical law when one doesn't stand behind the theory and the myriads of experiments which back up that theory? Carroll's reaction is entirely natural and understandable. He is also smarter than most (all?) here. Don't be so quick to judge - he isn't. He has 400 years of theory and experience at his back. That's a slow burn of hard-won knowledge and observation of how our world works. It's called "science".Couldn't agree more.Go on reddit and read the comment sections of all most any post on the emdrive, such as here. You will find heaps of post talking about the dogmatic mainstream, and how they were too busy being pompous and full of themselves to give a lone wolf inventor a chance, and we'd be to pluto by now if it weren't for the ivory tower elitists holding the little guy down.The recent "good" news has emboldened people who want nothing more than to see mainstream physics fail, because it would be gratifying for them to have their preconceived notions validated. If I had to guess, people like Carroll get tired of people rooting for them to fail, so they lash out. If they this thing turns out to be bunk, how many "believers" will admit that they were wrong, and caught up in the hype? If this thing works as claimed, how many pages of gloating will we see coming out of forums and news articles, lambasting Carroll as a dogmatic? My guess is close to zero and a lot, respectively.
I mostly agree, but with a few caveats: - Yes, lots of people would like to see physics or big science fail for once. Why? because we are human, that's why. We are basically irrational apes and we root for the underdog and hate the authority "restricting" us. Science is not really an enemy of course, it's just the method and the changing dialectic discourse of what we know about the world thanks to that method, but in the eye of many, it represents the closet thing to ecclesiastic authority. And even more now, when it has imbibed itself (and being mixed up) with some political and societal opinions (e.g. climate politics and its detractors are always fighting for saying they have the scientific truth on their side).
- The impact of this being true and the unfairness of having Carroll's or other people's egos bruised are hardly on the same league. If the fans are wrong, the critics can gloat but hardly anyone else will be impacted in particular, on the contrary case, the critics get the bashing and gloating by virtue of being in the tiny minority vs a spiteful majority. But so what? the critics won't die because of it and if something like this is true, life as we know it will change and everyone on Earth (including the critics) will be impacted.
Quote from: deltaMass on 07/29/2015 05:57 pmWhat is the point of spending one's life evincing physical law when one doesn't stand behind the theory and the myriads of experiments which back up that theory? Carroll's reaction is entirely natural and understandable. He is also smarter than most (all?) here. Don't be so quick to judge - he isn't. He has 400 years of theory and experience at his back. That's a slow burn of hard-won knowledge and observation of how our world works. It's called "science".Couldn't agree more.Go on reddit and read the comment sections of all most any post on the emdrive, such as here. You will find heaps of post talking about the dogmatic mainstream, and how they were too busy being pompous and full of themselves to give a lone wolf inventor a chance, and we'd be to pluto by now if it weren't for the ivory tower elitists holding the little guy down.The recent "good" news has emboldened people who want nothing more than to see mainstream physics fail, because it would be gratifying for them to have their preconceived notions validated. Smart and prestigious people support mainstream physics, and nothing is more gratifying to the underdog than seeing smart and prestigious people fail. If I had to guess, people like Carroll get tired of people rooting for them to fail, so they lash out. If this thing turns out to be bunk, how many "believers" will admit that they were wrong, and caught up in the hype? If this thing works as claimed, how many pages of gloating will we see coming out of forums and news articles, lambasting Carroll as a dogmatic? My guess is close to zero and a lot, respectively.
Quote from: wallofwolfstreet on 07/29/2015 06:26 pmQuote from: deltaMass on 07/29/2015 05:57 pmWhat is the point of spending one's life evincing physical law when one doesn't stand behind the theory and the myriads of experiments which back up that theory? Carroll's reaction is entirely natural and understandable. He is also smarter than most (all?) here. Don't be so quick to judge - he isn't. He has 400 years of theory and experience at his back. That's a slow burn of hard-won knowledge and observation of how our world works. It's called "science".Couldn't agree more.Go on reddit and read the comment sections of all most any post on the emdrive, such as here. You will find heaps of post talking about the dogmatic mainstream, and how they were too busy being pompous and full of themselves to give a lone wolf inventor a chance, and we'd be to pluto by now if it weren't for the ivory tower elitists holding the little guy down.The recent "good" news has emboldened people who want nothing more than to see mainstream physics fail, because it would be gratifying for them to have their preconceived notions validated. Smart and prestigious people support mainstream physics, and nothing is more gratifying to the underdog than seeing smart and prestigious people fail. If I had to guess, people like Carroll get tired of people rooting for them to fail, so they lash out. If this thing turns out to be bunk, how many "believers" will admit that they were wrong, and caught up in the hype? If this thing works as claimed, how many pages of gloating will we see coming out of forums and news articles, lambasting Carroll as a dogmatic? My guess is close to zero and a lot, respectively. Don't mistake my enthusiasm for believing science hype. If this blows a gasket than we will have learned something, if it works then we will have learned much more. There is no bad data.What I find extremely interesting is the chance we might find new physics at work here. To me there is a good chance of that. There is so much we don't know. For a quick instance, where does the extra spin come from on a proton? Simple question. I think anyone who empirically states they know it all is being a pompous ass and as bad as ones pushing SciFi science.Nature could care not one iota about your ego.Shell
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/29/2015 07:14 pmQuote from: wallofwolfstreet on 07/29/2015 06:26 pmQuote from: deltaMass on 07/29/2015 05:57 pmWhat is the point of spending one's life evincing physical law when one doesn't stand behind the theory and the myriads of experiments which back up that theory? Carroll's reaction is entirely natural and understandable. He is also smarter than most (all?) here. Don't be so quick to judge - he isn't. He has 400 years of theory and experience at his back. That's a slow burn of hard-won knowledge and observation of how our world works. It's called "science".Couldn't agree more.Go on reddit and read the comment sections of all most any post on the emdrive, such as here. You will find heaps of post talking about the dogmatic mainstream, and how they were too busy being pompous and full of themselves to give a lone wolf inventor a chance, and we'd be to pluto by now if it weren't for the ivory tower elitists holding the little guy down.The recent "good" news has emboldened people who want nothing more than to see mainstream physics fail, because it would be gratifying for them to have their preconceived notions validated. Smart and prestigious people support mainstream physics, and nothing is more gratifying to the underdog than seeing smart and prestigious people fail. If I had to guess, people like Carroll get tired of people rooting for them to fail, so they lash out. If this thing turns out to be bunk, how many "believers" will admit that they were wrong, and caught up in the hype? If this thing works as claimed, how many pages of gloating will we see coming out of forums and news articles, lambasting Carroll as a dogmatic? My guess is close to zero and a lot, respectively. Don't mistake my enthusiasm for believing science hype. If this blows a gasket than we will have learned something, if it works then we will have learned much more. There is no bad data.What I find extremely interesting is the chance we might find new physics at work here. To me there is a good chance of that. There is so much we don't know. For a quick instance, where does the extra spin come from on a proton? Simple question. I think anyone who empirically states they know it all is being a pompous ass and as bad as ones pushing SciFi science.Nature could care not one iota about your ego.ShellThis Carroll guy is quite an active writer: http://preposterousuniverse.com with impressive credentials (which I checked out myself rather than relying on others). We do have to understand critics and proponents have a lot at stake if they choose the wrong side...especially in writing You and I think alike...any data is useful...too many theories for and against out there for me.NSF-1701 extended static temp testing probably tonight.Also, you asked me a question and I totally "spaced" it...sorry.