NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Chinese Launchers => Topic started by: Phillip Clark on 11/27/2011 12:27 pm
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LAUNCH DAY Coverage with video links begins here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27391.270
DOCKING Coverage begins here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27391.msg917866#msg917866
MANUAL DOCKING TEST Coverage begins here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27391.855
RE-ENTRY AND LANDING Coverage begins here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27391.975
=------=
At the suggestion of TonyQ last week, I have now had a chance to do (in the words of a cricket commentator many years ago) some mental arithmetic with a pocket calculator to see when it is reasonable to expect the Shenzhou 9 launch. Any such calculations must come with a health warning because I am looking at the decay rate of Tiangong 1 and future decay rates are difficult to predict with accuracy because we do not know how the upper atmosphere's density will vary.
Anyway, here goes.
I looked at three periods of Tiangong 1 decay, as follows: dates are given as days of the year, and then the orbital period at that time is shown:
Period 1 278.8187 - 91.3725 min to 298.7771 - 91.2010 min
mean decay rate is -0.008593 min/day
Period 2 308.4507 - 91.2259 min to 319.2649 - 91.1595 min
mean decay rate is -0.006140 min/day
Period 3 322.5959 - 92.0136 min to 331.1051 - 91.9699 min
mean decay rate is -0.005136 min/day
For part of Period 2 Shenzhou 8 was attached and this will have affected the decay rate. So I have used only the decay rates for Periods 1 and 3. The geometric mean of these is -0.006643 min/day.
The 31 circuit repeating orbit period is ~91.20 minutes, so the orbital period has to drop from 91.9699 minutes: with the mean decay rate this will take 115.9 days from day 331.1051 in 2011, which brings us to day 82 in 2012, which is March 22.
So these ball-park calculations suggest that the launch of Shenzhou 9 in the final third of March 2012 is a reasonable expectation.
Please do not remind me if this turns out to be wrong!!!!!
(Have I missed any horrendous typos? - apologies if I have!)
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Thanks Phil, for making such excellent use of your pocket calculator!
Chinese internet sources were already suggesting a March/April launch date for SZ-9 and your calculations come up with a date which slots right into that range.
Obviously some external factors could cause things to change, but the Chinese have said they don't expect to re-boost TG-1 again before the SZ-9 flight, so this is starting to look fairly solid for a late March manned mission.
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From SpaceDaily: First Crew for Tiangong (http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/First_Crew_for_Tiangong_999.html).
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From SpaceDaily: First Crew for Tiangong (http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/First_Crew_for_Tiangong_999.html).
Thank you for the name-check, Morris!
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Linked from a posting on the www.9ifly.cn forum:-
http://guba.eastmoney.com/look,002025,4012701390.html
Online translation:-
"Shenzhou 9 on January 23 ascends to the heavens, on January 26 to the heavenly palace (Tiangong) carry out the docking.
It is reported Shenzhou 8 appraisal reports already completed, 119 scientific researches are successful. Shenzhou 9 will launch on January 23, 2012, will carry 3 people to ascend to the sky (includes first female astronaut), and on January 26 once more will dock with the heavenly palace (Tiangong)"
I've no idea now credible the source website is and I cannot find any other reports. The 9ifly posters seems to be treating the report with understandable scepticism!
Discuss!
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Linked from a posting on the www.9ifly.cn forum:-
http://guba.eastmoney.com/look,002025,4012701390.html
Damn! If this is true (and I'm deeply doubtful about it), this are very unexpected news. On the other hand being trusty, means that Chinese specialists are 101% confident about the system and that SZ-8 was an astounding success.
Phil, can you please tell us about the orbital position of TG-1 in this time frame? Also, if it is too high then TG-1 will have to use a good amount of propellant to maneuver to a lower orbit and then go up again, unless SZ-10 will make a jump on the schedule as well.
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Linked from a posting on the www.9ifly.cn forum:-
http://guba.eastmoney.com/look,002025,4012701390.html
Online translation:-
"Shenzhou 9 on January 23 ascends to the heavens, on January 26 to the heavenly palace (Tiangong) carry out the docking.
It is reported Shenzhou 8 appraisal reports already completed, 119 scientific researches are successful. Shenzhou 9 will launch on January 23, 2012, will carry 3 people to ascend to the sky (includes first female astronaut), and on January 26 once more will dock with the heavenly palace (Tiangong)"
I've no idea now credible the source website is and I cannot find any other reports. The 9ifly posters seems to be treating the report with understandable scepticism!
Discuss!
Sounds like a hoax to me: January 23 fell exactly on the first day of the Chinese new year, so I would expect that all engineers would be back to their homes at that time (I wouldn't even bet on ANY Chinese orbital launch attempt in late January 2012). Plus this article came from a stock-trading website, of all places... :P
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Sounds like a hoax to me: January 23 fell exactly on the first day of the Chinese new year, so I would expect that all engineers would be back to their homes at that time (I wouldn't even bet on ANY Chinese orbital launch attempt in late January 2012). Plus this article came from a stock-trading website, of all places... :P
Well, then that says it all...
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Whilst I share everyone's instinctive scepticism here, there was this CCTV report, filed just after SZ-8/TG-1 docking, which indicated that Spring Festival (aka Chinese New Year) would see the settling of SZ-9 and 10 crews.
http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/2011-11-14/220361560563.html
Coincidence?
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Whilst I share everyone's instinctive scepticism here, there was this CCTV report, filed just after SZ-8/TG-1 docking, which indicated that Spring Festival (aka Chinese New Year) would see the settling of SZ-9 and 10 crews.
http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/c/v/2011-11-14/220361560563.html
Coincidence?
I think so. And then the new report just confused the dates saying that SZ-9 would be launched on January.
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I am preferring to stick with the maths over this, and looking for Shenzhou 9 at the end of March. Unless the Chinese decide to manoeuvre Tiangong 1 down in the meantime or its orbital decay rate suddenly increases.
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The assembly of CZ-2F (Y9) has started
(source (http://www.calt.com/xwzx/zyxw/20111222112717e5ccb7.html) in Chinese)
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The assembly of CZ-2F (Y9) has started
(source (http://www.calt.com/xwzx/zyxw/20111222112717e5ccb7.html) in Chinese)
Cool! Hopefully we will see soon more. Last coverage was great.
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The assembly of CZ-2F (Y9) has started
(source (http://www.calt.com/xwzx/zyxw/20111222112717e5ccb7.html) in Chinese)
This would mean that SZ-9 is quite unlikely to be launched in March 2012, since if it's three months before launch the rocket stages would already been assembled prior to transporting to JSLC.
An article in the Hong Kong Commerce Daily points to a more likely June 2012 launch date. (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=168270&fromuid=19646)
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A direct link to HKCD (in Chinese) confirming a June launch
http://www.hkcd.com.hk/content/2011-12/21/content_2869006.htm
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That will mean at least one reboost for the Tiangong 1 orbit before the launch takes place.
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That will mean at least one reboost for the Tiangong 1 orbit before the launch takes place.
I think I'd prefer to rely on the veracity of Phil's numbers, which tied in with earlier media reports, and clearly all pointed to a March launch, than a single, unofficial news report from HK.
Also, my machine translations of the text seems to say SZ-9 will fly by June (i.e. in the first half of the year), which has been the official line for a long time.
If the plan was to launch in June, would they not have sent TG-1 into the right parking orbit after SZ-8 left?
The photo of the SZ-9 launcher released by CALT could ofcourse be taken anytime and doesn't necessarily reflect the current situation.
I do think that the Chinese set out to obfuscate our collective wish to track these things with accuracy!!
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New estimate(s) of likely SZ-9 launch, based on orbital decay rate, which appears to have slowed since a December 15th changed to TG-1's orientation.
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09.php
Any of our orbital mechanics experts care to comment?
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Shenzhou-9 being prepared for a manned, 10-day mission: http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftech.sina.com.cn%2Fd%2F2012-01-11%2F15166627689.shtml
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New estimate(s) of likely SZ-9 launch, based on orbital decay rate, which appears to have slowed since a December 15th changed to TG-1's orientation.
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09.php
Any of our orbital mechanics experts care to comment?
Zarya website reporting a further orientation change on 12th January to further slow the rate of orbital decay:-
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09.php
Seems that this might delay bringing TG-1 into the correct orbit for SZ-9 operations until June. :-\
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There are rumors of a possible delay to the second semester of 2012.
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I wish that the people who claim that the Chinese are going to land people on the Moon Real Soon Now would get together with the people who are watching how the Chinese actually meet their schedules.
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I wish that the people who claim that the Chinese are going to land people on the Moon Real Soon Now would get together with the people who are watching how the Chinese actually meet their schedules.
I think this posting should be in the Chinese manned lunar programme thread. However, a definition of "real soon" would be useful. In July 1999 I predicted a Chinese landing in time for the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11, but since then we know from Chinese statements that they are thinking about the middle of the next decade (2020s) which would stretch the definition of "real soon" somewhat.
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I have been looking at the recent decay rate of Tiangong 1 and have come up with revised estimates for the Shenzhou 9 launch, assuming that it comes when the orbit reaches the level of the 31 circuits repeater.
Assuming a constant decay rate then the launch would be around June 10.
More realistically, the lower the orbit decays the more that the decay rate will increase, and this could result in a projected launch around April 15.
Of course, orbital manoeuvres by Tiangong or other changes in the decay rate caused by attitude changes, etc, could negate these calculations. If I had to put my money on a date then it would be the second half of April, but time will tell.
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
If it's true, then it looks like they found more problems than we expected...
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
If it's true, then it looks like they found more problems than we expected...
If this is correct then it would explain the delay in the Shenzhou 9 launch beyond March and also the shift of Shenzhou 10 to next year.
Have I missed something which indicates that there were some serious problems with Shenzhou 8?
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
If it's true, then it looks like they found more problems than we expected...
If this is correct then it would explain the delay in the Shenzhou 9 launch beyond March and also the shift of Shenzhou 10 to next year.
Have I missed something which indicates that there were some serious problems with Shenzhou 8?
Haven't seen any rumors about that. Maybe the Chinese ran out of money for a manned flight this year. ;)
Seriously, it could just mean that the Chinese are cautious, or that there are delays in the training of the next crew.
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
This is a major surprise and let-down, if true.
I must admit, I hadn't expected that. Delays, yes, but not another unmanned flight. I also fail to see the point in it. If the crew's not ready, why not wait longer until it is? Or would that mean that SZ-10 would then have to be delayed beyond the life-expectancy of TG-1?
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If there were no problems with Shenzhou 8 and the problem is a delay in crew training pushing the first visit to Tiangong 1 beyond the module's operating lifetime, why not just fly the delayed Shenzhou 9 manned and shift Shenzhou 10 to Tianging 2 so that module hosts three visits?
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If there were no problems with Shenzhou 8 and the problem is a delay in crew training pushing the first visit to Tiangong 1 beyond the module's operating lifetime, why not just fly the delayed Shenzhou 9 manned and shift Shenzhou 10 to Tianging 2 so that module hosts three visits?
Dunno. Even the Chinese are baffled on this piece of news. What is strange is that the same news report said that SZ-9 may see the test of hatch opening between SZ-9 and TG-1. ???
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If there were no problems with Shenzhou 8 and the problem is a delay in crew training pushing the first visit to Tiangong 1 beyond the module's operating lifetime, why not just fly the delayed Shenzhou 9 manned and shift Shenzhou 10 to Tianging 2 so that module hosts three visits?
Dunno. Even the Chinese are baffled on this piece of news. What is strange is that the same news report said that SZ-9 may see the test of hatch opening between SZ-9 and TG-1. ???
My wierd humour has come up with the concept of a dummy astronaut being mounted on a catapult in SZ9 and when the hatches open it is fired from SZ9 to TG1 as the first crew transfer .......
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
That's a post to an internet forum with only http://www.sina.com.cn/ given as the source. Do you have a better link?
Reading the Google translation, it seems that Shenzhou 9 will pressurise the space between the docked vehicles, making sure there are no leaks. Maybe they had a problem with this on Shenzhou 8.
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WOW.... Shenzhou 9 will be launched in June.... UNMANNED!? That's beyond surprising! :o
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176961&fromuid=19646)
That's a post to an internet forum with only http://www.sina.com.cn/ given as the source. Do you have a better link?
Reading the Google translation, it seems that Shenzhou 9 will pressurise the space between the docked vehicles, making sure there are no leaks. Maybe they had a problem with this on Shenzhou 8.
Hold on a second. The news article has disappeared from the website of the newspaper that published the article. (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=176993&fromuid=19646)
Conspiracy? Fake? ::)
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If there were no problems with Shenzhou 8 and the problem is a delay in crew training pushing the first visit to Tiangong 1 beyond the module's operating lifetime, why not just fly the delayed Shenzhou 9 manned and shift Shenzhou 10 to Tianging 2 so that module hosts three visits?
Dunno. Even the Chinese are baffled on this piece of news. What is strange is that the same news report said that SZ-9 may see the test of hatch opening between SZ-9 and TG-1. ???
My wierd humour has come up with the concept of a dummy astronaut being mounted on a catapult in SZ9 and when the hatches open it is fired from SZ9 to TG1 as the first crew transfer .......
Or... they could always resort to their earlier policy on crew selection:
http://www.theonion.com/video/china-launches-first-willing-manned-mission-into-s,14273/ (http://www.theonion.com/video/china-launches-first-willing-manned-mission-into-s,14273/)
;D Sorry, couldn't resist....
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What is strange is that the same news report said that SZ-9 may see the test of hatch opening between SZ-9 and TG-1. ???
Ummm...Chinese Robonaut? :D
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Here is an English language version of the same story, which seems to be translated from the original Chinese reports, although it does quote a specific individual within CAST:-
http://english.cri.cn/6909/2012/02/15/2941s681248.htm
Although our friends on the 9ifly.cn forum are now casting doubt on the original source of this information, as it has apparently disappeared, it does look legitimate.
This report does make very specific mention of testing the 'passageway' between SZ and TG which seems to imply one of three things:-
1. Whatever testing of the integrity of the docking they did on SZ-8 wasn't 100% successful, and they feel they need to re-visit it?
2. They planned to test this in manned flight (this could be why there was uncertainty over whether the crew of SZ-9 would actually enter TG) but no longer feel comfortable doing this, for whatever reason?
3. It was never really planned to fly a crew on SZ-9 and it was always planned to test this in unmanned mode.
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Let us hope that that if there was some sort of pressure equalisation problem it was with SZ8 rather than TG1.
I am sure that the Chinese always hoped to fly SZ9 as a manned mission, but with the option of it being unmanned if there was a problem on SZ8.
With the original story apparently disappearing, maybe it was plain wrong? If SZ9 is unmanned this must be the first major setback in the programme since the SZ2 descent module's "hard" landing.
Again, if there was some sort of pressurisation problem somewhere within SZ8 I wonder if the Chinese thought "Soyuz 11", even though their crew would be in pressure suits all of the way down.
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Even if there is a problem in pressurising the TG/SZ vestibule, it still doesn't explain the need to fly uncrewed, since it is not a life-threatening problem.
They could still launch fully crewed, and if the pressurisation works, great, open the hatches, and if it doesn't, bring the crew back down as planned.
That however would constitute a failure, and so I think going uncrewed is more to do with saving face, since if they say they aren't intending to open the hatches, then they cannot fail to do so. ;)
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If it was intended to test TG accesibility during SZ-8 and it was not successful, maybe it was planned to solve problem and send unmanned SZ-9 to try it again. I doubt anyone wanted manned SZ-9 after flight of SZ-8 - as it thus not fulfilled requirement for manned flight. Moving flights of next spacecrafts to the right maybe means only difficulties to achieve it. Then it cannot be connected with astronaut training. Financial difficulties seem to sound good, but more than improbable. ;D
I am in some way disappointed finally, because only a few months ago I was thinking that Tiangong-2 somtimes in december could be very interesting step. ;D
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If we look back we see that SZ-9 was planned to be a unmanned mission and that consistent rumors about being crewed were more consistent after SZ-8.
I now believe that SZ-8 must have had some kind of problem because is doesn't look very practical and a logical step to launch another unmanned flight if the previous one was 100% successful. On the other hand the problem can be on TG-1.
The initial analysis on the SZ-8 mission looks to have been very optimistic, leading to the rumored schedule of a flight in March and another at the end of 2012. Deeper analyses must have shown some kind of problem, leading to a delay of the missions and probably placing TG-1 in some kind of orbital attitude leading to a delay on the decay rate (in this way leading to the delay of the missions).
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Well in any case I think we could disregard the news report I put here yesterday: the only source that states that SZ-9 will be an unmanned mission has deleted the article from the newspaper's website. Given how high profile SZ-8 was, I would had thought that there would be rumors spreading around the Internet by now if any major problems has developed during any phase of the mission, and the lack of any of them makes me quite suspicious of the article I put here.
Anyway, it seems that the this can be put to rest with a letter from Wang Wenbao, the director of the Chinese Manned Spaceflight Office, to the workers of the CMSO just before the Chinese new year: (http://www.cmse.gov.cn/news/show.php?itemid=2181)
.... This excitement emerges from the glorious mission we will undertake in the new year. According to the plans of the manned spaceflight program, we will complete the manned rendezvous and docking mission in 2012. Being the first manned spaceflight mission since SZ-7 4 years ago, it will be a difficult yet glorious mission of huge importance, and one in the limelight of the Chinese people. ....
So looks like a reporter has jumped the gun.... ::)
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If we look back we see that SZ-9 was planned to be a unmanned mission and that consistent rumors about being crewed were more consistent after SZ-8.
In this case it is not such as obvious and more explanations are possible. ???
I'm not sure however if it is possible, the report about unmanned SZ-9 is only rumor when in same time CRI is quoting researcher named Zhu Yilin saying SZ-9 will be unmanned (in link posted by tonyq). In fact he stated that Shenzhou-9 only major task will be hatch opening.
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When Shenzhou 8, 9 and 10 were originally discussed shorty after the Shenzhou 7 flight, they were portrayed as being an unmanned docking mission followed by two manned docking missions.
I think that last year's uncertainty whether Shenzhou 9 would be piloted or not was simply Chinese caution in case there was some major failure with Shenzhou 8.
Perhaps what we are getting now is a garbled version of the internal discussions of some unspecified failure during the Shenzhou 8 mission as the role and schedule of Shenzhou 9 is being debated. Whatever the issue was, I think that it was enough to delay the next flight and thus result in the Chinese adjusting the decay rate of Tiangong 1.
Right now, maybe the Chinese themselves haven't decided whether the fly the mission with or without a crew.
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If there is a problem with Tiangong they will launch another one that will be better.
It's due to be deorbited soon anyway. Seems like it was more of a test program for them but I like that there was hope of some HSF in there :D
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If there is a problem with Tiangong they will launch another one that will be better.
It's due to be deorbited soon anyway. Seems like it was more of a test program for them but I like that there was hope of some HSF in there :D
Where is your source for this statement?
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Right now, maybe the Chinese themselves haven't decided whether the fly the mission with or without a crew.
This English language report suggests that Phil may well be on the right lines here:-
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/202936/7730800.html
Firstly, People's Daily should be a credible, semi-official source, and it is dated today, so should be fresher information than yesterday's report, so worth looking at what it says:-
"China will launch another spacecraft in June to dock with its Tiangong-1 space lab, and one more spaceship next year to conduct a more demanding manual docking, according to sources with the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CAST)........
......Shenzhou-9 and Shenzhou-10 are part of the program to establish a manned space station, earlier reports only said the two would be launched in the first and second half of this year, and no information about crew was released.
The Shenzhou-9 mission will still focus on docking, separating and docking with Tiangong-1 to ensure safety in the coming manned mission......
Shenzhou-9 will try opening the passageway linking the spaceship and Tiangong-1 when they dock, a move not carried out in the Shenzhou-8 mission...........
However, Pang Zhihao, a researcher from CAST, said it has not been decided whether the Shenzhou-9 mission will be manned or not.
I does not say anywhere that Shenzhou 9 will be unmanned, just that no decision has yet been made. Also, how realistic would it be for the 'passageway link' to be opened, without a human crew being aboard the craft to actually do this?
It also implies that Shenzhou 9 will dock and undock automatically, regardless of whether there is a crew, and that manual docking will be attempted only on Shenzhou 10.
Perhaps what all this really means is that any crew on Shenzhou 9 will not enter Tiangong. That will wait until Shenzhou 10 and the main objective is to ensure the connection is robust?
I hope that this report and the detail contained within it suggest the 'unmanned' rumours may be just that, and that, officially at least, the Chinese are still to make a final decision on the crewing of Shenzhou 9?
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If Shenzhou 9 is launched with a crew on board then I see no reason for that crew not to board Tianging 1. While the Chinese are cautious, I think that docking with but not entering Tiangong 1 would be a senseless mission rather than caution.
Remember 41 years ago when Soyuz 10 docked with Salyut and then returned to Earth with the Soviet Union claiming that the crew was never intended to enter the station? No-one believed it (outside the Soviet Union!).
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And the myth's officially busted. (http://news.xinhuanet.com/tech/2012-02/17/c_111537512.htm) :)
A spokesperson for the Chinese Manned Space Exploration office has announced today that Shenzhou 9 and its crew of three will perform a mission that includes a manual docking test and perform experiments on board Tiangong 1. Launch will occur sometime between June and August.
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And the myth's officially busted. (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=177336&fromuid=19646) :)
A spokesperson for the Chinese Manned Space Exploration office has announced today that Shenzhou 9 and its crew of three will perform a mission that includes a manual docking test and perform experiments on board Tiangong 1. Launch will occur sometime between June and August.
Good, thank you for that!
Do we have any information or speculation on who the crew will be? I'm still guessing they're holding out to SZ-10 for the first female taikonaut.
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And the myth's officially busted. (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=177336&fromuid=19646) :)
A spokesperson for the Chinese Manned Space Exploration office has announced today that Shenzhou 9 and its crew of three will perform a mission that includes a manual docking test and perform experiments on board Tiangong 1. Launch will occur sometime between June and August.
It'd be easier for me to assess your messages if you could provide original sources, in this instance Xinhua, instead of referring to 9ifly every time. 9ifly is a nice and pro forum but if it is official news you're quoting, where the news comes from matters.
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It'd be easier for me to assess the message if you could provide original sources, in this instance Xinhua, instead of referring to 9ifly every time. 9ifly is a nice and pro forum but if it is official news you're quoting, where the news comes from matters.
Point taken. Thanks!
Good, thank you for that!
Do we have any information or speculation on who the crew will be? I'm still guessing they're holding out to SZ-10 for the first female taikonaut.
I don't think we will know about that until a month or so before launch, but it's China we are speaking about, so who knows?
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Specualtion that no HSF would happen was false.
Thankyou for this news 8)
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Here's the direct link to the news article.
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2012-02-17/142923949794.shtml
Babelfish translation:
"Our country will implement heavenly palace one with the Shenzhou nine manned rendezvous docking mission The Shenzhou ninth airship plan selects machine the launch June to August Broad net Beijing on February 17 the news (by Zong Zhaodun) China manned space program news spokesperson (17th) announced today that our country in this year implementation heavenly palace one with the Shenzhou nine manned rendezvous docking mission, will realize the astronaut to rendezvous manually controlled docking, confirms the rendezvous docking technology comprehensively. Will undertake this task the flight to be composed while the group by 3 astronauts. According to the duty plan, the Shenzhou ninth airship will select machine the launch June to August, carries on manned rendezvous docking with in-orbit movement's heavenly palace goal flight vehicle. The astronaut will enter a heavenly palace work and the life, the development related space science experiment, after completing the task returns to the ground. It is reported that in 2011 implements heavenly palace obtains the complete success after the Shenzhou eight rendezvous docking mission, undergoes the comprehensive summary and the overall assessment, project various systems meets the execution manned rendezvous docking mission requirement. At present, a heavenly palace goal flight vehicle in-orbit work is normal, has the astronaut to be resident the condition; The Shenzhou ninth airship, the Long March two F launch vehicle has completed the general equipment department, before is carrying on leaving the plant each test; The astronaut is carrying out the duty training; System each preparatory work progress and so on decoy launching, landing field, observation correspondence are smooth."
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That's much better news to wake up to............
It almost looks as if the rogue report of a couple of days ago has forced the hand of the Chinese to put out this official, and fairly comprehensive, announcement and we now have confirmation that there will be a crew of 3. In previously statements they'd been hedging their bets on 2 or 3, and they will enter Tiangong, not simply dock and depart.
Do we have any information or speculation on who the crew will be? I'm still guessing they're holding out to SZ-10 for the first female taikonaut.
At the time of SZ-8 and TG-1 the Chinese announced that they had a training group of nine (7 men and 2 women) for the SZ-9 and SZ-10 flights. Now that we have clarity of crew size, I'd suggest that it is very likely these 9 are formed into 3 potential crews (1 with 3 men, 2 with two men/1 woman), and probably have been for some time.
Whether the 3 man crew are already assigned to SZ-9, or whether the most suitable crew, overall, will be determined nearer to the launch, is impossible to say. However, if my theory is sound, then there is a distinct possibilty of a female taikonaut on (at least) the back-up crew.
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That's much better news to wake up to............
Do we have any information or speculation on who the crew will be? I'm still guessing they're holding out to SZ-10 for the first female taikonaut.
At the time of SZ-8 and TG-1 the Chinese announced that they had a training group of nine (7 men and 2 women) for the SZ-9 and SZ-10 flights. Now that we have clarity of crew size, I'd suggest that it is very likely these 9 are formed into 3 potential crews (1 with 3 men, 2 with two men/1 woman), and probably have been for some time.
Whether the 3 man crew are already assigned to SZ-9, or whether the most suitable crew, overall, will be determined nearer to the launch, is impossible to say. However, if my theory is sound, then there is a distinct possibilty of a female taikonaut on (at least) the back-up crew.
I bet for the female presence in the SZ-09 crew. I don't know if space authorities are very confident in female capacities (as we saw historically >:( ) and, as I think they are only trying to fly a woman for public relations maybe they think it's better to fly her on a shorter flight.
And maybe authorities are looking for a "strong" crew if they are planning a long duration with the SZ-10 flight aboard TG-1
But who knows...
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Only a couple of weeks ago, Fei Junlong said, on Chinese TV, that the two women were fully trained and ready and waiting to be assigned to a mission, and that one of them would fly in 2012. As commnader of the taikonaut team, he would surely have known, at that time, that SZ-10 had slipped to 2013, so make of that what you will...........
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CCTV coverage of today's news, which is said to show the assembly of of SZ-9 hardware.
Also shots of a possible SZ-9 crew in the descent module simulator. This is new footage and not archive take from SZ-7. I don't recognise either of the men who are seen quite clearly. The person to the left of the screen could be a man or a woman.
http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=132097
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This is a video capture from the video at 00:50''
In the screen seems to be...
a women with long hair?
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CCTV coverage of today's news, which is said to show the assembly of of SZ-9 hardware.
Also shots of a possible SZ-9 crew in the descent module simulator. This is new footage and not archive take from SZ-7. I don't recognise either of the men who are seen quite clearly. The person to the left of the screen could be a man or a woman.
http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=132097
The storyline with the video on that page says: "The new space docking mission will be realized by astronauts' manual operation, another chance for China to test its docking technology, the spokesman said."
Would that mean that the docking operation itself will be conducted manually?
IIRC, so far it was always said that SZ-9 would perform automatic docking (like SZ-8, but with a crew on board) and only SZ-10 would perform a manual docking.
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Also shots of a possible SZ-9 crew in the descent module simulator. This is new footage and not archive take from SZ-7. I don't recognise either of the men who are seen quite clearly. The person to the left of the screen could be a man or a woman.
The cosmonaut in the right coach can be Li Qinglong. Here's his 2008 photo (to the left of Zhai Zhigang): (http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2008-09/24/xin_37209052418339371088241.jpg)
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According to this article from today, it is planned to launch SZ-10 this year.
China plans to launch two more spacecraft - Shenzhou IX and Shenzhou X - this year to further test the technologies. Previously, officials had only been certain that the Shenzhou X spacecraft would carry astronauts on board, the first Chinese female astronaut likely being among them.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-02/18/content_14637950.htm (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-02/18/content_14637950.htm)
Not sure if the information is correct.
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The tiny graphics at the bottom of the picture on http://bbs.voc.com.cn/topic-3685609-1-1.html seems to suggest we can expect further spacewalks during the Tiangong era...
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Yes Igor, I also think that person is Li Qinglong. I have no idea who is on the centre couch though. I suspect it may be someone we have not seen a photograph of previously.
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If there are EVAs during missions to the current Tiangong design, then I would expect them to be via the orbital module since there is no sign of an EVA hatch on Tiangong itself.
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The tiny graphics at the bottom of the picture on http://bbs.voc.com.cn/topic-3685609-1-1.html seems to suggest we can expect further spacewalks during the Tiangong era...
Surely without some provision/capability for EVA in the Tiangong era, the SZ-7 EVA breakthrough would have been a dead end project?
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From Xinhua, China prepares for manned space docking this year: engineer (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-03/01/c_131440672.htm).
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So, now NO boarding of Tiangong-1...Another case of garbled info/translation issues, or has the actual flight plan changed?
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So, now NO boarding of Tiangong-1...Another case of garbled info/translation issues, or has the actual flight plan changed?
Actually the actual quote means that at least one astronaut will be working/resting inside Shenzhou-9 at all times during the docked period. He didn't specify if he meant the same person always staying in SZ-9 (probably not), or the reason behind the decision (maybe it's simply a lack of capacity in supporting three person living inside TG-1 at all times, or that volume space is limited....).
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Safety concerns was mentioned too. In case of emergency, one astronaut on board Shenzhou means maybe faster reaction to such situation. For next flight it seems that all crew will transfer to Tiangong.
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Safety concerns was mentioned too. In case of emergency, one astronaut on board Shenzhou means maybe faster reaction to such situation. For next flight it seems that all crew will transfer to Tiangong.
I suspect that this reflects the usual very cautious approach of the Chinese and the desire to distinguish the tasks of the SZ-9 and SZ-10 missions.
It appears SZ-9 will be a carefully managed, cautious, entry to TG-1. Presumably they will isolate the descent module - leave one, (maybe two astronauts initially) in there before opening the access from the orbital module to TG-1. Maybe the crew will wear spacesuits or some other form of life-support when they initially leave SZ.
Leaving someone in SZ may be a safety measure, or it may simply be a logistical one, connected with capacity or consumables. Whilst the person on SZ-9 maybe rotated, I'd speculate that it will be the same person, as presumably they will have been trained for whatever unplanned scenarios the Chinese envisage might arise, which, in extreme or catastrophic circumstances could include a solo return to earth.
If the same person is going to remain in SZ-9 for the duration, this could indicate a relatively short flight.
SZ-10 will probably see a move to a 'shirt sleeve' environment and everyone boarding TG-1 concurrently.
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From Xinhua, Upgraded carrier rocket ready for China's first manned space docking: official (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-03/03/c_131444180.htm).
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Shenzhou 9 will fly in space for 13 days (http://www.hi.chinanews.com/hnnew/2012-03-04/214420.html)
According to this Chinese language report, 3 days in solo flight, and 10 days docked to TG-1
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Female Astronaut may fly on Shenzhou 9 (http://www.shxb.net/html/20120306/20120306_305688.shtml)
More quotes from Qi Faren today, about SZ-9 plans. I cannot see this reported on any of the English language Chinese websites, so relying on machine translation, this says that it is hoped to fly a female astronaut on SZ-9, although the final decision will depend their on examination results and will be made at the last moment.
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(...) this says that it is hoped to fly a female astronaut on SZ-9, although the final decision will depend their on examination results and will be made at the last moment.
This seems to be somewhat contradictory: According to Xinhua, the same Qi Faren had said in an interview last week, that the authorities have picked three astronauts for the manned docking already. See http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-03/01/c_131440672.htm
If this is the case, wouldn't the authorities already have decided, which one of the females, if any, would fly? Or could his statement from last week mean, that three astronauts had been picked and trained to perform the manual docking, and one each of them is assigned to each of the three crews (main, backup, support crews)?
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Totally agree that these messages are contradictory, and they are apparently coming from the same official!! This report puts Qi's latest comments into English, and the gist is still the same - the actual SZ-9 crew has not been finalised.
Chinese Spacewomen brace for possible lift-off (http://www.china.org.cn/china/NPC_CPPCC_2012/2012-03/07/content_24828020.htm)
I'd guess that you are right, that his remarks last week were actually intended to refer to the fact that there are three docking specialsts in the training group (of 9), rather than a specific crew of three. There are many previous examples where Chinese reporters have picked up comments by officials incorrectly.
His latest comments (which are being reported in more depth on Chinese language sites) seem to say that they would prefer to fly a female taikonaut, if they complete all their examinations satisfactorily, over the next few weeks.
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From Xinhua Shenzhou-9 may take female astronaut to space: official (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-03/12/c_131461219.htm).
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Tony Quine's latest on the female taikonaut situation:
Another article related to this by Tony Quine:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/03/china-paving-the-way-for-first-female-taikonaut/
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A spokesperson for the Chinese Manned Space Exploration office has announced today that Shenzhou 9 and its crew of three will perform a mission that includes a manual docking test and perform experiments on board Tiangong 1. Launch will occur sometime between June and August.
Seen on this web http://www.sinodefence.com/shenzhou/shenzhou9.asp (http://www.sinodefence.com/shenzhou/shenzhou9.asp)
"The latest speculation suggested that the Shenzhou 9 launched had been delayed until June 2012. This will allow the third Tianlian 1 tracking and data relay satellite (TDRS) to be launched to form a global TDRS network with the two satellites already in orbit".
This webpage was updated on January 1st
China launch schedule
2012
June - CZ-2F/G - JSLC, 921 - SZ-9 Shenzhou-9
July - CZ-3C - XSLC, LC2 - TL-1C Tianlian-1C
Changes on February 24
Changes on February 26
Changes on February 27
Changes on March 3
And Satori on the Chinese Schedule is pointing the Tianlian-1C launch, on July.
Is needed a 3rd Tianlian to support communications for the scheduled longest chinese spaceflight (13 days) ?
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Just been playing with the numbers for the Tiangong 1 orbit.
As of Mar 14.03 the orbital period was 91.5117 minutes. The decay rate in recent days has averaged -0.00482 minutes/day. Assuming a linear decay rate - which is always dangerous! - this means that the repeating orbit period of 91.22 minutes will be reached in 60-61 days, suggesting a Shenzhou 9 launch in mid-May.
Of course, orbital tweaks or the Chinese otherwise adjusting the decay rate can easily change this estimate by a few weeks, pushing the launch opportunity into June.
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The first souvenir envelopes have already been designed by Shanghai Academy of Space Technology. No launch month is given on the envelopes.
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Contradictory information regarding the SZ-9 launch date:-
Chinese language report says that SZ-9 will be taken to Jiuquan next month:-
http://business.sohu.com/20120326/n338913067.shtml
SZ-8 and TG-1 were both delivered around 8 weeks before launch, so a repeat would take us into June.
However, the new orbital parameters of TG-1, which was boosted to a higher orbit on 23rd March, currently suggests a much later launch in August:-
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09.php#ndot2
Presumably, the TG-1 rate of decay can be accelerated, if appropriate.
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Contradictory information regarding the SZ-9 launch date:-
Chinese language report says that SZ-9 will be taken to Jiuquan next month:-
http://business.sohu.com/20120326/n338913067.shtml
SZ-8 and TG-1 were both delivered around 8 weeks before launch, so a repeat would take us into June.
However, the new orbital parameters of TG-1, which was boosted to a higher orbit on 23rd March, currently suggests a much later launch in August:-
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09.php#ndot2
Presumably, the TG-1 rate of decay can be accelerated, if appropriate.
I don't think it's contradictory:
Maybe they are just keeping all their options open. They had stated earlier, that the SZ-9 launch is planned between June and August. So, by delivering SZ-9 to Jiuquan next month, they can make sure that it is going to be ready in June, if everything else is, while the latest boost of TG-1 gives them the time to delay until August if needed, without having to reboost it again.
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My own calculations suggest that following the most recent Tiangong 1 manoeuvre, the station will be at the "right altitude" - in the 31 circuits repeating orbit - for the Shenzhou 9 launch during the final third of July.
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My own calculations suggest that following the most recent Tiangong 1 manoeuvre, the station will be at the "right altitude" - in the 31 circuits repeating orbit - for the Shenzhou 9 launch during the final third of July.
Has Shenzhou not enough margin to reach higher altitudes also?
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I don't think it's contradictory:
Maybe they are just keeping all their options open. They had stated earlier, that the SZ-9 launch is planned between June and August. So, by delivering SZ-9 to Jiuquan next month, they can make sure that it is going to be ready in June, if everything else is, while the latest boost of TG-1 gives them the time to delay until August if needed, without having to reboost it again.
I agree with the logic of what you say. When they announced the planned June to August launch window it seemed likely that June was their target at that time, (otherwise, why mention it at all) and the July to August period was for contingencies. Moving the hardware to the launch site shortly suggests that they are still getting everything in position for a June launch. However, I'm not sure how possible it would be to significantly increase the orbital decay rate of TG-1 to get it back down to the 'right altitude' 4 to 6 weeks earlier than the current rate will achieve?
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My own calculations suggest that following the most recent Tiangong 1 manoeuvre, the station will be at the "right altitude" - in the 31 circuits repeating orbit - for the Shenzhou 9 launch during the final third of July.
Has Shenzhou not enough margin to reach higher altitudes also?
I don't know what SZ cabability is, but the previous SZ missions have operated at c330km x c340km orbital parameters, so it would seem unlikely that this will be varied significantly on SZ-9
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou.php
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My own calculations suggest that following the most recent Tiangong 1 manoeuvre, the station will be at the "right altitude" - in the 31 circuits repeating orbit - for the Shenzhou 9 launch during the final third of July.
Has Shenzhou not enough margin to reach higher altitudes also?
As has just been commented, all Shenzhou flights starting with #2 have used the ~330-340 km 31-circuits repeating orbit.
Shenzhou might well be able to fly higher, but for space station missions it is an advantage to have the station in something close to a repeating orbit, so that it you have a launch delay then there is another opportunity in 2-3 days time.
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As has just been commented, all Shenzhou flights starting with #2 have used the ~330-340 km 31-circuits repeating orbit.
Shenzhou might well be able to fly higher, but for space station missions it is an advantage to have the station in something close to a repeating orbit, so that it you have a launch delay then there is another opportunity in 2-3 days time.
Thanx for the explanations. Will make the procedures also easier and comparable if you use always the same parameters I think. Shy question about ISS: Do we have there also such a fixed orbit for visiting vehicles? In my memory not as for example ATV is used to boost the ISS.
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Female taikonaut in training
http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2012/04-07/3801981.shtml
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Oh no it's not !!!
Although this image has been used quite extensively in Chinese media, it is actually my very good friend, South Korean Soyeon Yi, training at GCTC in 2007!!
Pretty sad that the Chinese media have so little knowledge of their own manned space programme that they make such a daft error. :(
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Oh no it's not !!!
Although this image has been used quite extensively in Chinese media, it is actually my very good friend, South Korean Soyeon Yi, training at GCTC in 2007!!
Pretty sad that the Chinese media have so little knowledge of their own manned space programme that they make such a daft error. :(
Now I see it also. The not chinese like instructors in the background should have made me suspicious. Thank you for correction tonyq!
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CCTV has announced that Shenzhou-9 has been delivered to JSLC
http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120409/116924.shtml
In the case of SZ-8, delivery to Jiuquan took place 8/9 weeks before the eventual launch. TG-1 was delivered at end June 2011 and looked likely to launch in late August until deferred due the the launch failure earlier that month.
If these dates do give us any guidance, then it seems the Chinese are working towards a SZ-9 launch around first/second week in June.
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In the case of SZ-8, delivery to Jiuquan took place 8/9 weeks before the eventual launch. TG-1 was delivered at end June 2011 and looked likely to launch in late August until deferred due the the launch failure earlier that month.
If these dates do give us any guidance, then it seems the Chinese are working towards a SZ-9 launch around first/second week in June.
In case everything goes well and the launch happens in first weeks of June, I think SZ-10 could well be launched this year. In ideal case 4 manned space launches are prepared for near time and I do not see in such a development technical problems not to launch it in late autumn. :)
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Video of the SZ-9 actually arriving at JSLC:-
http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120409/117792.shtml
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Via 9ifly space forum, Shenzhou-9 at Jiuquan.
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It looks as if the forward (orbital) module has solar panels attached which is a surprize. The Chinese have never depicted a Shenzhou docking with anything with solar panels on its forward module.
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It looks as if the forward (orbital) module has solar panels attached which is a surprize. The Chinese have never depicted a Shenzhou docking with anything with solar panels on its forward module.
I think Shenzhou will not fly with orbital module solar panels more. Or it was not planned. It was said that SZ-8 will have last, more significant modifications if I remember correctly.
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It looks as if the forward (orbital) module has solar panels attached which is a surprize. The Chinese have never depicted a Shenzhou docking with anything with solar panels on its forward module.
I think Shenzhou will not fly with orbital module solar panels more. Or it was not planned. It was said that SZ-8 will have last, more significant modifications if I remember correctly.
I agree with you totally - yet the photo above appears to show folded solar panels on the cylindrical forward module. It's not the descent module, clearly, since there's the transfer tunnel from the descent module at the bottom.
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It looks as if the forward (orbital) module has solar panels attached which is a surprize. The Chinese have never depicted a Shenzhou docking with anything with solar panels on its forward module.
I think Shenzhou will not fly with orbital module solar panels more. Or it was not planned. It was said that SZ-8 will have last, more significant modifications if I remember correctly.
I agree with you totally - yet the photo above appears to show folded solar panels on the cylindrical forward module. It's not the descent module, clearly, since there's the transfer tunnel from the descent module at the bottom.
It seems logical to have solar panels on the Orbital Module if the intent is to leave it docked to Tiangong as a building block to expand the station. It would be helpful to find out what equipment is inside the OM. There may be higher power demands because of that.
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Via 9ifly space forum, Shenzhou-9 at Jiuquan.
Apparently these are OLD photographs of Shenzhou 6...... :P
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Via 9ifly space forum, Shenzhou-9 at Jiuquan.
Apparently these are OLD photographs of Shenzhou 6...... :P
Thank you - excitement over.
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Via 9ifly space forum, Shenzhou-9 at Jiuquan.
Apparently these are OLD photographs of Shenzhou 6...... :P
Thank you for clarification! bah! :P
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Some very interesting insight into possible SZ-9 launch dates here:-
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09Analysis.php
Essentially identifies two primary launch opportunies ~29th May or ~17th July, with the latter favoured at present due to TG-1 decay rate.
However, with SZ-9 already at Jiuquan, this would imply it being processed there for roughly five weeks longer than the previous three manned related flights?
It will be interesting to see when the Long March turns up at Jiuquan, as this might give us our next clue to their precise plans.
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Some very interesting insight into possible SZ-9 launch dates here:-
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09Analysis.php
Essentially identifies two primary launch opportunies ~29th May or ~17th July, with the latter favoured at present due to TG-1 decay rate.
However, with SZ-9 already at Jiuquan, this would imply it being processed there for roughly five weeks longer than the previous three manned related flights?
It will be interesting to see when the Long March turns up at Jiuquan, as this might give us our next clue to their precise plans.
This should happen within a week or so: the rocket has passed the readiness review for rocket transferal to JSLC on April 11.
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=188615&fromuid=19646)
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Via 9ifly space forum, Shenzhou-9 at Jiuquan.
Apparently these are OLD photographs of Shenzhou 6...... :P
I thought same before. Photos from weibo can be interesting, though no one can claim they are not 5 years old... ;D ;D
No new comments about launch date? Till now it seems august term is still not ruled out officialy.
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All gone very quiet on the SZ-9 front, with no new Chinese media commentary for 2/3 weeks, and particularly, no report of the launcher being delivered to JSLC.
Based on the sequence of events leading up to the previous SZ/TG related launches, it needs to be there very soon, if they are going to make the early June window............
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Some good news: the Long March 2F rocket has been completed, and on today a delivery ceremony will take place at CALT's plant before the rocket heads to JSLC via rail. (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=192901&fromuid=19646)) Last year the rocket for TG-1 was delivered on July 15 and was originally tracking for launch on August 30 (before the SJ-11 launch failure happened)(photos here (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=84&pid=140139&fromuid=19646)), so maybe the Chinese are thinking of launching in late June - early July?
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That is good news. For SZ-8, the equivalent dates are 24th September and 31st October; 37 days from arrival at JSLC to launch. Presumably it will leave the plant soon after today's ceremony, so how long does the rail journey take?
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The ceremony itself: http://www.calt.com/xwzx/zyxw/2012050512215011b2d8.html (http://www.calt.com/xwzx/zyxw/2012050512215011b2d8.html)
P.S. The press release confirms that there will be one woman taikongnaut on board!
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I am not cross-checking with Bob Christy's data to ensure that my thoughts are independent of his. Currently, it looks as if the orbit of Tiangong 1 will reach the 31 circuits repeating orbit altitude around the end of the first week of July or the beginning of the second week.
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I am not cross-checking with Bob Christy's data to ensure that my thoughts are independent of his. Currently, it looks as if the orbit of Tiangong 1 will reach the 31 circuits repeating orbit altitude around the end of the first week of July or the beginning of the second week.
Bob Christy's detailed analysis (on the previous landing times for Shenzhou missions and the orbit variations of TG-1) points to mid-July as the currently most probable launch window, but an earlier opportunity in late June is also possible.
Link (http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09Analysis.php)
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Some good news: the Long March 2F rocket has been completed, and on today a delivery ceremony will take place at CALT's plant before the rocket heads to JSLC via rail. (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=192901&fromuid=19646)) Last year the rocket for TG-1 was delivered on July 15 and was originally tracking for launch on August 30 (before the SJ-11 launch failure happened)(photos here (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=84&pid=140139&fromuid=19646)), so maybe the Chinese are thinking of launching in late June - early July?
Per Xinhua news, both the processing team and the rocket itself arrived at JSLC yesterday. (http://news.xinhuanet.com/2012-05/10/c_111924427.htm)
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Now that the booster is actually at JSLC, we can ponder some interesting dates:-
TG-1 booster arrived 23rd July for planned launch on 30th August (which was of course delayed due to SJ-11 event) Processing time 38 days
SZ-8 booster arrived 24th September for launch 1st November (local time, and correcting my post above) Processing time 38 days
SZ-9 booster arrived 9th May - possible processing time 38 days - projected launch date 16th June?
I'm not suggesting this is a definitive date; only the Chinese know their plans, but it would seem to fit the previously achieved schedule.
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Some good news: the Long March 2F rocket has been completed, and on today a delivery ceremony will take place at CALT's plant before the rocket heads to JSLC via rail. (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=192901&fromuid=19646)) Last year the rocket for TG-1 was delivered on July 15 and was originally tracking for launch on August 30 (before the SJ-11 launch failure happened)(photos here (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=84&pid=140139&fromuid=19646)), so maybe the Chinese are thinking of launching in late June - early July?
Per Xinhua news, both the processing team and the rocket itself arrived at JSLC yesterday. (http://news.xinhuanet.com/2012-05/10/c_111924427.htm)
Video:
http://military.cntv.cn/program/jsbd/20120510/116786.shtml (http://military.cntv.cn/program/jsbd/20120510/116786.shtml)
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Warning, take the news below with a large bag of salt!
A forum member claimed that Shenzhou 9 will be launched "around June 28". Can't judge his truthfulness at this moment, but he also claimed that the next Chinese launch will carry a radar satellite. So maybe he's an insider, or he's not. :-\
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=194590&fromuid=19646)
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Now that the booster is actually at JSLC, we can ponder some interesting dates:-
TG-1 booster arrived 23rd July for planned launch on 30th August (which was of course delayed due to SJ-11 event) Processing time 38 days
SZ-8 booster arrived 24th September for launch 1st November (local time, and correcting my post above) Processing time 38 days
SZ-9 booster arrived 9th May - possible processing time 38 days - projected launch date 16th June?
I'm not suggesting this is a definitive date; only the Chinese know their plans, but it would seem to fit the previously achieved schedule.
In addition to the factors in my previous post, 16th/17th June has also been computed at www.zarya.info as the start of an 8 day launch window, which would allow SZ-9 to rendezvous and dock with TG-1, and then return after 13 days and land, in daylight, in the target landing area.
The previous such window is in late May - now far too soon - and the next one, possible, but improbable, is in mid-July - a fallback option maybe.
The date referred to above, 28th June, does not support the flight plan already publicised, unless the overall mission pattern is to be very different to previous SZ missions, which seems highly unlikely.
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Just had a look at the latest Tiangong 1 orbital data and the lab should be in the 31-circuits repeating orbit at the end of June.
So we might see Shenzhou 9 in the last 7-10 days of June?
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A mobilization meeting of the launch team for the SZ-9 mission took place at Jiuquan to prepare for the upcoming launch.
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This source (http://club.china.com/data/thread/1011/2741/15/68/7_1.html) reports that the launch will occur at "around June 20", with the flight duration around 10 days. Crew consists of two male and one female.
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Since it is people we are talking about, two men and one woman.
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From the 9ifly Chinese space forum, the Shenzhou-9 crew mission patch.
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This source (http://club.china.com/data/thread/1011/2741/15/68/7_1.html) reports that the launch will occur at "around June 20", with the flight duration around 10 days. Crew consists of two male and one female.
A 13 day flight duration, 2 days prior to docking, 10 day stay at TG-1, plus return, was first mentioned by the Chinese in early March, and has been repeated many times so this looks solid as an official planned duration. Perhaps this poster's '10 days' refers to the TG-1 occupation, rather than the whole mission.
The window for a 13 day flight opens on 17th June, which is not far away from 'around 20th June'. Although it makes sense to aim for the start of the window, in case of unplanned delays.
Unless we get some solid information to the contrary, 17th June still looks good for the planned launch, as things stand right now, although I'm unsure what time, and whether that would then be 16th June in Europe and US!!
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From the 9ifly Chinese space forum, the Shenzhou-9 crew mission patch.
Wow, that is... not what I expected. I like the 'Shenzhou-9 patch' produced for the recent Chinese movie better!
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I suppose that the upper words in the patchs aren´t related to the crew...
Anyone with Chinese language skills could translate these words?
Thanks.
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I suppose that the upper words in the patchs aren´t related to the crew...
Anyone with Chinese language skills could translate these words?
Thanks.
It's China's first manned rendezvous and docking mission.
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Another hint on the launch date: Companies are preparing to issue launch day covers on June 15.
Co-incidence? ::)
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=197837&fromuid=19646)
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A stationary prepared by China Space Post Office for the upcomming SZ-9 mission. Does it show the planned primary crew? Can anybody identify the signatures?
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I won't pretend I can read Chinese, but the woman's signature does seem to match a know autograph of Wang Yaping.
However, the image doesn't look that much like her, and we can't be sure this is the prime crew; the post office could have made proofs of both crews?
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A stationary prepared by China Space Post Office for the upcomming SZ-9 mission. Does it show the planned primary crew? Can anybody identify the signatures?
“(照片仅为示意,非航天员)”
Understand? ;D
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A stationary prepared by China Space Post Office for the upcomming SZ-9 mission. Does it show the planned primary crew? Can anybody identify the signatures?
“(照片仅为示意,非航天员)”
Understand? ;D
OK - so that says:- "Photo only indicative. Not astronauts"
But the top line "航天员签名" says "Signature of the astronauts"
So can anyone tell what the signatures say? Do they reflect the names of known astronauts? I've already illustrated that the woman's appears to, but it would be useful to have the views of a Chinese speaker!
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I think this photo of the SZ-7 crew shows the image above is a photoshopped mock-up, but the signatures are still a point of interest?
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A stationary prepared by China Space Post Office for the upcomming SZ-9 mission. Does it show the planned primary crew? Can anybody identify the signatures?
“(照片仅为示意,非航天员)”
Understand? ;D
OK - so that says:- "Photo only indicative. Not astronauts"
But the top line "航天员签名" says "Signature of the astronauts"
So can anyone tell what the signatures say? Do they reflect the names of known astronauts? I've already illustrated that the woman's appears to, but it would be useful to have the views of a Chinese speaker!
The signatures don't match, so I'm inclined to agree that the people on this are not astronauts.
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On different aspect of the mission, TG-1 has now lowered its orbit to prepare for the mid June launch window
http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/Shenzhou09.php#sz9
Now that TG-1 has successfully completed this necessary adjustment, I wouldn't be surprised if a specific launch date/time is released unofficially in the next few days.
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Latest hint at 9ifly is that the launch will occur NET June 18.
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According to a poster today, at 9ifly, the fuelling of Shenzhou 9 (the spacecraft, not the booster!) began on 28th May. In the case of SZ-7, this milestone was undertaken at T-18 days, which would take us to 15th June?
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Even the sub-contractors of SZ-9 are now saying "NET mid-June" now.... probably June 15 (from philately sources and using previous experience in launch preparations).
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=200011&fromuid=19646)
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I'm open for ideas regarding this image:
(http://www.9ifly.cn/data/attachment/forum/201206/02/122651yrjz4u4mnay4mju4.jpg)
(from: http://www.9ifly.cn/thread-964-23-1.html )
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The woman next to Yang Liwei is this person:-
http://www.9abc.net/index.php/archives/68086
She has been a senior official in the astronaut training programme since before SZ-5. I am 99% certain there are no taikonauts in this photo, and ofcourse, we don't know where or when it was taken?
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BTW the banner above reads: "Training class for preliminary medical assessment for the selection of the second astronaut class". So I'll guess the people in the photo are officials instead of astronauts.
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Yuanwang-6 arrived at Fiji to monitor the SZ-9 docking mission (image and info from 9ifly space forum).
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OK, here's an analysis of the launch windows of SZ-9, using the longitude of the ascending node of TG-1 during the launch of SZ-8 (which should have more or less the same launch profile) and project it to the case of SZ-9. (thanks to 9ifly member darklighter (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=200637&fromuid=19646))
These three equations are useful for the calculations:
Due to the oblate shape of the Earth, the LAN of an object in orbit actually moves around. The rate of change of the LAN can be estimated by this equation:
ΔΩ = -9.964 * (Re / a)^3.5 * (1 - e^2)^0.5 * cos(i) (Eq. *)
Re = Earth radius (6,378,138 m)
a = orbit's semi-major axis
e = eccentricity
i = equatorial inclination
Then we can get the LAN of TG-1 at any time: Ωt(t) = Ωt0 + ΔΩt * (t - Tt0) + 360 * n1 (Eq. 1) (n1 is an integer such that Ωt(t) is between 0 and 360)
To get the relationship of the LAN of the chasing spacecraft (SZ-9 in this case) at orbit insertion and the launch time, we can use a similar launch and compare the LAN with its launch time, and project it to this launch. Here the reference launch is SZ-8.
Ω0(t) = (t - T0h) * ωe + Ω0h + 360 * n2 (Eq. 2)
t = launch time
ωe = Earth's angular rotation speed (= 360.9856 deg./day)
n2 is an integer such that Ωt(t) is between 0 and 360
Combining the last two equations, we have
T = (ωe * T0 - ΔΩ * T1 + Ω1 - Ω0 + 360 * n)) / (ωe - ΔΩ) (Eq. 3)
T0 is the launch time of the spacecraft of our reference launch. In this case it's the launch time of SZ-8, 2011-10-31 21:58:10 UTC (40847.915394 days since 1900-01-01 00:00:00 UTC).
Ω0 is the LAN of TG-1 during our reference launch. From NORAD data, it's about 359.762 deg.
T1 is the epoch time of the target spacecraft (TG-1) for a certain TLE. Here we use the TLE data on June 2 @ 08:54 UTC (41062.371069 days since 1900-01-01 00:00:00 UTC).
Ω1 is the LAN of TG-1 at T1, which is 141.0052 deg.
ΔΩ is the rate of change of the LAN of TG-1 in the orbit as shown in the TLE at T1. Assume that TG-1 is in a 336 km circular orbit, the rate is -6.1102 deg/day.
Thus we can calculate the launch time of SZ-9 at n days after last October 31 (launch of SZ-8). So for n=224 (June 10), T = 41070.559211 (= 13:25:16 UTC on June 10). For others days, substitute a different value of n.
He calculated the launch windows of SZ-9 as follows: (Given that TG-1 can still change its orbit, the error is about 5 minutes)
UTC Beijing time
2012-06-10 13:25:16 2012-06-10 21:25:16
2012-06-11 12:57:26 2012-06-11 20:57:26
2012-06-12 12:29:36 2012-06-12 20:29:36
2012-06-13 12:01:46 2012-06-13 20:01:46
2012-06-14 11:33:56 2012-06-14 19:33:56
2012-06-15 11:06:05 2012-06-15 19:06:05
2012-06-16 10:38:15 2012-06-16 18:38:15
2012-06-17 10:10:25 2012-06-17 18:10:25
2012-06-18 09:42:35 2012-06-18 17:42:35
2012-06-19 09:14:45 2012-06-19 17:14:45
2012-06-20 08:46:55 2012-06-20 16:46:55
2012-06-21 08:19:05 2012-06-21 16:19:05
2012-06-22 07:51:15 2012-06-22 15:51:15
2012-06-23 07:23:25 2012-06-23 15:23:25
2012-06-24 06:55:35 2012-06-24 14:55:35
2012-06-25 06:27:45 2012-06-25 14:27:45
2012-06-26 05:59:55 2012-06-26 13:59:55
2012-06-27 05:32:05 2012-06-27 13:32:05
2012-06-28 05:04:15 2012-06-28 13:04:15
2012-06-29 04:36:24 2012-06-29 12:36:24
2012-06-30 04:08:34 2012-06-30 12:08:34
Note: Apparently the current trend points to launch at around June 15 (and I heard a rumor that it might even be moving up (!)), and the Chinese television channels are now starting to play promos about upcoming coverage of the mission, so sit back and enjoy the show... ;D
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It's nice seeing launch dates move to the left and not the right!
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SZ-9's targeted launch time atm is 16 June 10:41 UTC
It's planed as a maximum 13 day mission.
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SZ-9's targeted launch time atm is 16 June 10:41 UTC
Is it possible to have a source of this information?
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SZ-9's targeted launch time atm is 16 June 10:41 UTC
Is it possible to have a source of this information?
It's appearing on some media sites, supposedly "sources from Beijing". But I've seen other dates too.
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SZ-9's targeted launch time atm is 16 June 10:41 UTC
Is it possible to have a source of this information?
I've sent you a PM
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Ofcourse, if this date (16th) turns out to be correct, China's first woman taikonaut will be launched into space on the 49th anniversary of the first spaceflight by a woman.
Coincidence?
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Ofcourse, if this date (16th) turns out to be correct, China's first woman taikonaut will be launched into space on the 49th anniversary of the first spaceflight by a woman.
Coincidence?
I don't think this was long-term planned but I think that the Chinese will possibly exploit the coincidence.
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Ofcourse, if this date (16th) turns out to be correct, China's first woman taikonaut will be launched into space on the 49th anniversary of the first spaceflight by a woman.
Coincidence?
...and if it goes the 18th, it marks 29 years since the first U.S. female crew member.
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If the SZ-9 Shenzhou-9 launch will take place on June 16, then we should expect that the CZ-2F Chang Zheng-2F (Y9) should be transported to the launch pad around next Saturday, June 9.
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I had checked back in the Shenzhou 7 thread and found that the vehicle was rolled to the pad on September 20 and launched on September 25. So it may be a few days yet.
The crew for that mission was announced at a press conference on the day before the launch. This level of secrecy in China may be normal, but it is annoying.
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I had checked back in the Shenzhou 7 thread and found that the vehicle was rolled to the pad on September 20 and launched on September 25. So it may be a few days yet.
The crew for that mission was announced at a press conference on the day before the launch. This level of secrecy in China may be normal, but it is annoying.
Not 100% correct.
The crew were named in official media at T-9 days, and full biographies etc were published.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=5137.105
A recent poster a 9ifly is suggesting that roll out to the pad will be tomorrow (9th) too, but with launch on 15th?
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Chinese media coverage now confirms that SZ-9 is ready to be moved to the launchpad on Saturday 9th June.
http://news.xinmin.cn/domestic/gnkb/2012/06/09/15079255.html
Based on previous SZ's and TG-1, this suggests a launch in 5-7 days.
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Chinese media coverage now confirms that SZ-9 is ready to be moved to the launchpad on Saturday 9th June.
http://news.xinmin.cn/domestic/gnkb/2012/06/09/15079255.html
Based on previous SZ's and TG-1, this suggests a launch in 5-7 days.
Great news! Thanks Tony!
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It's 'rollin...... ;D
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News report on the rocket roll-out: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120609/105025.shtml (http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120609/105025.shtml)
Apparently SZ-9 arrived at JSLC on April 9 and the rocket arrived on May 9.
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Some more publicity:
China Plans Its First Manned Space Docking By KEVIN DREW June 9, 2012
At: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/science/space/china-plans-its-first-manned-space-docking.html
"HONG KONG — China’s space agency said on Saturday that it will launch astronauts later in June to perform the country’s first manned space docking, the latest step in the country’s ambitious plan for space exploration."
:)
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Is there some way we can be notified in advance of when the launch will be? I'd rather not miss this launch.
Regards Peter
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By the way I can confirm that the rocket has now rolled out to the pad. The only launch concern left however is birds. :)
cheers Peter
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Is there some way we can be notified in advance of when the launch will be? I'd rather not miss this launch.
Regards Peter
Well, stay tuned on nasaspaceflight.com!! ;)
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I hope you don't mind me posting this. This news article has just been released regarding the launch.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/china-embarks-on-its-own-space-race/story-fn6ck55c-1226390057428
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I hope you don't mind me posting this. This news article has just been released regarding the launch.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/china-embarks-on-its-own-space-race/story-fn6ck55c-1226390057428
A question is whom the Chinese are in a race with? India? Japan? After all, a one-horse race isn't a race at all.
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A question is whom the Chinese are in a race with? India? Japan? After all, a one-horse race isn't a race at all.
With Russia?
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A question is whom the Chinese are in a race with? India? Japan? After all, a one-horse race isn't a race at all.
Everybody. Anybody. Nobody.
I get the impression that their program is in large part because they see certain desirable goals, and are working on reaching those goals, irrespective of whatever anyone else does. They think very long term.
I don't know how much it's a nationalistic pride thing (which is where the 'race' aspects typically come into play). The Chinese are going through a pretty big nationalistic pride thing these days, and that might be a factor in their program, but I don't have a good sense for how big a factor that is for their decision-makers.
Noel
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So far we're not getting any indication that foreign journalists will be invited to the launch site. This close to the launch date, I think we can assume there will NOT be such an invitation, you think?
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Please keep in mind for upcoming mission assessment, my crazy idea that Tiangong-1 is not a one-time intermediate test vehicle for the large CZ-5-launched Mir-class station. It could also, in later incarnations, serve as a 'Mission Module' [docked to an advanced Shenzhou/airlock], for human flight beyond LEO, including lunar vicinity and Sun-Earth L2, over the next decade or so. And even farther out, in time and in space.
Crazy idea, I know. But there's a lot of effort going into its development and long-duration certification, including as a test bed for regenerative life support systems -- a lot more than justified merely as a 'docking target' that will be thrown away after a single mission.
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Are they planning on broadcasting the launch?
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A question is whom the Chinese are in a race with? India? Japan? After all, a one-horse race isn't a race at all.
Everybody. Anybody. Nobody.
I get the impression that their program is in large part because they see certain desirable goals, and are working on reaching those goals, irrespective of whatever anyone else does. They think very long term.
I don't know how much it's a nationalistic pride thing (which is where the 'race' aspects typically come into play). The Chinese are going through a pretty big nationalistic pride thing these days, and that might be a factor in their program, but I don't have a good sense for how big a factor that is for their decision-makers.
Noel
My experience (or impression) got in conversations with the Chinese conservatives is, that they are still under selective blockade and embargo. They once told me that 'everytime we manage to get the ability of producing some blocked materials or mastering some advanced technologies, you western countries will remove the ban on selling or transferring your similar ones to us; if there were no sanctions there previously, then your price labeled on these things to us will drop sharply.' So, repeating what we have done in the past (which they have not yet) then becomes reasonable. Nationalistic pride still plays an important role in a large part of their population, but expressed in different ways. The old nationalistic pride which was once interpreted into their communist ideology had long been faded away :(, they now become more focused on ‘the revival course’—restore and regain their traditional glory they enjoyed before 1840s.
As to the 2nd question, they often hold a perspective or concept of viewing and planning things in a very long term (often 100+ years). They have idioms like'富不过三代'(fortune lasts no longer than 3 generations),'君子之泽五世而斩'(benefits earned via nobility will be exhausted in 5 generations),'十年树木百年树人'(it takes 10 years to grow a tree, but 100 years to make a gentleman),'虽九世之仇可报也'(it is justified to revenge a blood feud even if this was formed 9 generations ago) and many other similar ones. They have a very different attitude to the matter of time from us. When doing businesses with Chinese officials, I was quite shocked when I heard that they have a long long plan for what their successors should do— Medium and long-term development plan, 2000-2040 :o My Aussie state government only concerns about what will happen in the next election >:(...
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Are they planning on broadcasting the launch?
CCTV has broadcast their other manned programme launches live in recent years, so I see now reason why that should change this time around.
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Are they planning on broadcasting the launch?
CCTV has broadcast their other manned programme launches live in recent years, so I see now reason why that should change this time around.
Awesome, thanks.
As a side note, CNN doesn't seem to know the launch date (that's what made me think to ask). Has a date been set besides "mid-June"?
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So far we're not getting any indication that foreign journalists will be invited to the launch site. This close to the launch date, I think we can assume there will NOT be such an invitation, you think?
This sort of thing might need a new "policy" thread, but why should the Chinese invite foreign visitors to its launches - manned or unmanned?
There seems to be an assumption these days that there should be access to everything when this has never been the case with space programmes because of military and general technology restrictions.
We should be pleased that we can look forward to live TV coverage of the key events of the Shenzhou 9 (and later 10, etc) missions.
By the way Jim, I know that they were unmanned, but when were you invited to see live Israeli launches? And if you weren't why not criticise Israel as well for not being open? Fair is fair!!!!!
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Are they planning on broadcasting the launch?
CCTV has broadcast their other manned programme launches live in recent years, so I see now reason why that should change this time around.
Awesome, thanks.
As a side note, CNN doesn't seem to know the launch date (that's what made me think to ask). Has a date been set besides "mid-June"?
Please, read the thread before asking. For several times now the launch date has been discussed on this thread and on the 'China Launch Schedule' thread.
Launch window opens on the 14th and several rumors have been given the launch date as the 15th or 16th. On the 'China Launch Schedule' thread we have 1041UTC on June 16 from a «secure» but unofficial source.
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[quote author=Phillip Clark link=topic=27391.msg914267#msg914267
By the way Jim, I know that they were unmanned, but when were you invited to see live Israeli launches? And if you weren't why not criticise Israel as well for not being open? Fair is fair!!!!!
[/quote]
But apples ain't oranges.
I was invited to the last Israeli manned launch, ahem.
Earlier this year there had been scuttlebutt in Beijing -- and I heard it there myself -- that there would be international invitations to this launch, for the first time.
That's the reason for my interest, this time. I never complained about previous launchings. And it takes a grumpy geezer to read a 'complaint' into my factual question.
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'everytime we manage to get the ability of producing some blocked materials or mastering some advanced technologies, you western countries will remove the ban on selling or transferring your similar ones to us; ...' So, repeating what we have done in the past (which they have not yet) then becomes reasonable.
I expect that you're right, that that's a factor - but I also get the strong sense that they are also interested in doing stuff the rest of the world hasn't done yet, and that they are quite prepared to be pathfinders. (If nobody else follows them, all the better, from their POV, I suspect.) I've read some things (sorry, don't have a URL) that suggest that they see a very large-scale space presence as key in the long run (up to a century out, and more).
They have a very different attitude to the matter of time from us. When doing businesses with Chinese officials, I was quite shocked when I heard that they have a long long plan for what their successors should do
The Japanese are just the same on that (albeit on a smaller scale), FWTW.
Noel
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A question is whom the Chinese are in a race with? India? Japan? After all, a one-horse race isn't a race at all.
It really seems they are in a race with themselves. They are running their own race, and those are the people that tend to win.
I don't think the Chinese really cares what ESA/NASA do, and only tangently care about JAXA because they are locals. They know politically they are not going to be allowed to participate with anything carrying an American flag.
I wish them all the luck in the world, GO CHINA!
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'everytime we manage to get the ability of producing some blocked materials or mastering some advanced technologies, you western countries will remove the ban on selling or transferring your similar ones to us; ...' So, repeating what we have done in the past (which they have not yet) then becomes reasonable.
I expect that you're right, that that's a factor - but I also get the strong sense that they are also interested in doing stuff the rest of the world hasn't done yet, and that they are quite prepared to be pathfinders. (If nobody else follows them, all the better, from their POV, I suspect.) I've read some things (sorry, don't have a URL) that suggest that they see a very large-scale space presence as key in the long run (up to a century out, and more).
They have a very different attitude to the matter of time from us. When doing businesses with Chinese officials, I was quite shocked when I heard that they have a long long plan for what their successors should do
The Japanese are just the same on that (albeit on a smaller scale), FWTW.
Noel
The Chinese patiently waited more than 99 years for the return of Hong Kong.
Compare that to 'some' on this side of the globe who blow their stack, blow their cool when an interesting rocket launch attempt is delayed 24 hours.
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According to this report, the two taikonaut crews also arrived at the launch site yesterday, and have entered into quarantine.
http://news.sohu.com/20120610/n345185266.shtml
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Ahem. English translation please?
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When speculating on the launch date, it is worth noting that SZ-7 and SZ-8 were both moved to the pad at T-5 days. TG-1 was too, in anticipation of launch on 27th September, which was then delayed 2 days by weather issues.
For both SZ-5 and SZ-7 (can't find it for SZ-6) the crews arrived at JSLC at T-4 days. We know this crew arrived yesterday.
Putting all this together, there seems to be no reason why they shouldn't be in a position to launch on 14th June?
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This site http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2012-06-10/013924565621.shtml points to a June 16 launch date.
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Rumors on 9ifly that the chosen feminine taikonaut is Wang Yaping.
This choice is not very strange because Yaping seams to have a Tereshkova's like past. Her family has a rural background. Her parents are peasants that plant cherries and her two sisters still live with their parents. Yaping left home and made a military career becoming cargo plane pilot. Her choice would be a PR and propaganda boost to the Chinese space program. On the other hand, Liu Yang family has some military connections and her choice could make some damage to the program.
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Ahem. English translation please?
An old Russian saying, from the Soviet era:
Optimists study English.
Pessimists study Chinese.
Realists study the Kalashnikov rifle gun.
Couldn't resist, really :-)
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CCTV news is reporting tonight that Tiangong-1 has been moved into a lower orbit and that "on June 16 three astronauts, including a woman, will board the Shenzhou-9, blasting off into space".
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Here are the two crews.
From left, Wang Yaping, ??, NieHaisheng, Liu Yang, ??, Jing Haipen
I do not recognise the unknown men from previous images.
Crew 1
Nie Haisheng
??
Wang Yaping
Crew 2
Jing Haipen
??
Liu Yang
There is no indication of which crew is prime and which is back-up.
On 9ifly they have an image of the crew 2 planting a tree, but I don't attach any significance to this, as I imagine they all plant trees.
Would someone as senior as Nie Haisheng be asked to serve a backup again?
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Two more photos of one of the crews planting trees at JSLC:
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How new is this?
Chinese female astronaut to join Shenzhou-9 docking mission
English.news.cn | 2012-06-11 11:46:44 | Editor: Lu Hui
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/11/c_131644304.htm
One of the two female astronauts, Liu Yang(L) and Wang Yaping (R), from the Wuhan Flight Unit, will join Shenzhou-9 manned spacecraft docking mission with Tiangong-1 spacecraft in mid-June. They are selected as members of the first batch of female astronauts in China because of their excellent flight skills and psychological quality.
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Here are the two crews.
From left, Wang Yaping, ??, NieHaisheng, Liu Yang, ??, Jing Haipen
I do not recognise the unknown men from previous images.
Crew 1
Nie Haisheng
??
Wang Yaping
Crew 2
Jing Haipen
??
Liu Yang
There is no indication of which crew is prime and which is back-up.
On 9ifly they have an image of the crew 2 planting a tree, but I don't attach any significance to this, as I imagine they all plant trees.
Would someone as senior as Nie Haisheng be asked to serve a backup again?
Thanks tonyq.
Between this and your speculation on the other thread, is it fair to speculate that the crews are:
Prime: Nie Haisheng (CDR), Chen Quan, Wang Yaping
Back-up: Jing Haipeng (CDR), Liu Wang, Liu Yang
Sorry for mixing threads.
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The speculation on the other thread was without the photos, and Chen Quan and Liu Wang were just educated guesses. I'm not sure who the two unflown guys pictured today are are. The guy in Nie's crew could be Chen Quan, but I'm not sure.
I would say that it is 75% sure that you have the crews the right way round, for three reasons:-
1. Nie is a very senior guy, and I don't think they would have him as a back-up for the second successive mission
2. Jing Hiapeng probably unlikely to fly consecutive missions, especially ahead of Nie
3. There is a lot of speculation on Chinese and some English forums that Wang Yaping will be the first woman. Many of these posters are claiming their sources as people close to JSLC.
However we can't be 100% sure until an official announcement
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I'm not saying the Chinese are following exactly the same traditions than the russians but...
Here are the two crews.
From left, Wang Yaping, ??, NieHaisheng, Liu Yang, ??, Jing Haipen
Russians (and foreigners flying on a Soyuz) only plant trees if they are prime crew and they haven't been launched from Baikonur previously
Two more photos of one of the crews planting trees at JSLC:
Watching the picture planting trees, the man on the right is Jing Haipen, and watching the haircut of the woman (is short on her ear side) I think isn't the identified as Wang Yaping on the “two crews together” picture.
Hope the Chinese authorities will announce crews soon... :)
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Hot off the presses:
Crew 1: Nie Haisheng, Zhang Xiaoguan, Wang Yaping
Crew 2: Jing Haipeng, Liu Wang, Liu Yang
I wonder which crew is going up... ::)
Source: http://www.huanqiu.com/ (http://www.huanqiu.com/)
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Slightly better quality photos:
http://lk.astronautilus.pl/temp/pfa/sz9-1.jpg (http://lk.astronautilus.pl/temp/pfa/sz9-1.jpg)
http://lk.astronautilus.pl/temp/pfa/sz9-2.jpg (http://lk.astronautilus.pl/temp/pfa/sz9-2.jpg)
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From the 9ifly Chinese space forum, the Shenzhou-9 crew mission patch.
Seems this is the patch that will be worn by engineers; the official crew patch looks much better, though we don't have a detailed photo yet...
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From Xinhua, Shenzhou-9 may face thunder, high temps: experts (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/11/c_131645642.htm).
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Has there been any mention of the names of the three taikonauts of the third crew (support crew)?
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According to an English language report on CCTV, the female crew member will be designated 'Mission Expert', and will undertake an experiment programme on TG-1. It doesn't sound as if they have an active role in flying Shenzhou.
This suggests that, although both are Air Force pilots, their accelerated training ( recruitment to launch in two years) results in the capabilty to serve as an MS or SFP, in NASA/Roskosmos language.
Presumably, this means that, as well as flying a woman for publicity or political purposes, the Chinese will also have demonstrated a capabilty to train and fly engineers, doctors, or other specialists, to TG-2 and TG-3, without taking them out of their mainstream career for many years. Neat!
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From Xinhua, Shenzhou-9 full-system drill a success: official (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/index.htm).
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Looks like the rumors about the Jing Haipeng, Liu Wang, Liu Yang crew are getting bigger
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news.ifeng.com is saying that SZ-10 Shenzhou-10 can be launched before the end of the year.
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So how does this work?
Nobody knows until they walk over to the pad?
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On June 11 there was a full-systems drill of the Shenzhou-9 launch. The taikonauts participated on the drill walking into the capsule.
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Interesting to see that the Chinese has already put water recovery / oxygen generation and urine reprocessing systems on TG-1.... I thought TG-1 would have a simpler system.
The same article also mentions that TG-1 is equipped with most of the exercising equipments on ISS (but no mentioning of a treadmill....), and that the SZ-9 crew will carry out a fire drill during the mission.
Apparently the crew will do their initial docking automatically. During their stay, they will undock from the station and will attempt a manual re-docking.
I wonder how large does TG-1's interior compare with the ISS modules: the article reports that TG-1's volume is around 40 m3, with about 15 m3 of usable free space.
Source 1 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=202594&fromuid=19646)
Source 2 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=202549&fromuid=19646)
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On June 11 there was a full-systems drill of the Shenzhou-9 launch. The taikonauts participated on the drill walking into the capsule.
Notice the second picture for the Terminal Countdown Demonstration Test: the "ignition time" is set to 14:37:21 local. Does that means that the real launch is scheduled at 10:37:21 UTC on June 16? ::) (apparently given that TG-1's orbit has been lowered yesterday, the predicted launch time is just off by 4 seconds! (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=202700&fromuid=19646))
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Has there been any mention of the names of the three taikonauts of the third crew (support crew)?
IIRC, I don't recall a third crew on SZ-6/7....
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From the http://www.spacechina.com website:
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Has there been any mention of the names of the three taikonauts of the third crew (support crew)?
IIRC, I don't recall a third crew on SZ-6/7....
There was a third crew for SZ-6 Liu Buoming and Jing Haipeng, but there wasn't for SZ-7.
According to Chinese statements last year, they selected a nine person 'advance training group' to provide crews for both SZ-9 and SZ-10, so there should be another three men in the background here somewhere, but whether they comprise another crew as such, no-one can say.
It will be interesting to see if the back-up crew for SZ-9 simply moves across to become the SZ-10 prime crew, or if all the pieces of the jigsaw will go up in the air, again!!
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There was a third crew for SZ-6 Liu Buoming and Jing Haipeng, but there wasn't for SZ-7.
I think Chinese use support crews (they did on SZ5 and SZ6) but they didn't identify in SZ7, and also I think they will not announce now.
According to Chinese statements last year, they selected a nine person 'advance training group' to provide crews for both SZ-9 and SZ-10, so there should be another three men in the background here somewhere, but whether they comprise another crew as such, no-one can say.
It will be interesting to see if the back-up crew for SZ-9 simply moves across to become the SZ-10 prime crew, or if all the pieces of the jigsaw will go up in the air, again!!
Being SZ10 a similar mission (+endurance) than SZ9, and expecting a near flight (in this year?), I think Chinese probably use the same pool of 9 cosmonauts eliminating the two women and the flown "operator" of SZ9, assuming the SZ9 CDR, the role of SZ10 Backup CDR.
Talking about patches, I'm not absolutely sure because I don't read Chinese, but it seems that the names of the cosmonauts never appeared on the official mission patches. Is it true?
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Talking about patches, I'm not absolutely sure because I don't read Chinese, but it seems that the names of the cosmonauts never appeared on the official mission patches. Is it true?
True. Maybe its just not the Chinese way, or it has to do with the late decision on which crews actually flies the mission.
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Novosti Kosmonautiki news page, this morning, seems to be reporting the emergence of new information in the last 24 hours, that SZ-9 prime crew will be:-
Nie Haisheng
Chen Quan
Wang Yaping
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/news.shtml
I will add (and risk making a fool of myself) that from study of the CCTV video coverage, I do not think that it was the Jing/Liu/Liu crew that undertook the TCDT yesterday.
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The 72h countdown for the launch of Shenzhou-9 has started!
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From Xinhua, Shenzhou-9 enters final pre-launch phase (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/13/c_131650972.htm).
From Chinadaily, Space program seeks a mother's touch (http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-06/13/content_15496806.htm).
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Novosti Kosmonautiki news page, this morning, seems to be reporting the emergence of new information in the last 24 hours, that SZ-9 prime crew will be:-
Nie Haisheng
Chen Quan
Wang Yaping
Nope, this was an old version, now partially corrected.
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From Xinhua, Shenzhou-9 enters final pre-launch phase (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/13/c_131650972.htm).
From Chinadaily, Space program seeks a mother's touch (http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-06/13/content_15496806.htm).
Although the Chinese have been reporting right through their selection process that their female candidates had to be married with children, interviews today with family members of both Liu and Wang confirm that in fact neither has kids!
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It doesn't help much but... (from http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2012-06-14/015224587274.shtml)
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Other images of the June 11 test (from http://it.sohu.com/20120613/n345490319.shtml)
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From Xinhua, Drill carried out on entire system of Shenzhou-9 spacecraft (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/video/2012-06/13/c_131649673.htm) (launch on June 16).
From Xinhua, Love in Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/13/c_131651067.htm).
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From Xinhua, China's manned spacecraft in final preparations for mid-June launch (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/13/c_131651147.htm)
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What time is the launch? (sorry)
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What time is the launch? (sorry)
Probably at 1037:21UTC on June 16.
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Thanks. Much appreciated!
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Air route closures:
A0656/12 (Issued for ZLHW ZBPE ZSHA ZHWH) - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY
N4204E10033-N4026E10006-N3435E11915-N3605E12012 BACK TO
START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY
INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 16 JUN 10:22 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 11:10 2012. CREATED:
14 JUN 03:22 2012
A0657/12 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY
N3457E12043-N3416E12000-N3220E12400-N3321E12400 BACK TO
START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY
INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 16 JUN 10:22 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 11:12 2012. CREATED:
14 JUN 03:23 2012
A0658/12 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY
N3147E10333-N2921E10750-N3017E10828-N3228E10359 BACK TO
START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY
INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 16 JUN 12:14 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 13:01 2012. CREATED:
14 JUN 03:24 2012
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From Xinhua, Last fuelling drill for Shenzhou-9's approaching launch (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/video/2012-06/14/c_131652557.htm).
From Xinhua, Lauching tower of Shenzhou-9 spacecraft in NW China (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/14/c_131651536.htm).
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Rescue drill for the SZ-9 mission (with Jing Haipeng, Liu Wang and Liu Yabg participation?): http://slide.news.sina.com.cn/c/slide_1_31978_23996.html#p=1.
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An interesting set of images about the launch preparations can be found at http://news.sina.com.cn/photo/kanjian/24.html
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"VIDEO:SHENZHOU-9 ENTERS PRE-LAUNCH PHASE"
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newshour/20120614/103566.shtml
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few pics from cctv-news broadcast http://imgur.com/a/q6Tln
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Fueling of the Chang Zheng-2F/G launch vehicle will start in a few hours.
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The pre-launch press conference is scheduled at 06:00 GMT (or just over 2 hours from now). We should know about who is flying the mission by then (the astronauts will attend a media event at 09:00 GMT). If I have time I might be able to transcribe. :)
BTW anyone interested in an "OMG it's the Shenzhou party thread"? ;D
Edit: press conference now expected at 07:00 GMT
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Does anyone know of a non buffering cctv-news feed?
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BREAKING NEWS:
Launch time 10:37 UTC on June 16. Crew is, as expected, Jing Haipeng + Liu Yang + Liu Wang
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BREAKING NEWS:
Launch time 10:37 UTC on June 16. Crew is, as expected, Jing Haipeng + Liu Yang + Liu Wang
Thank you! Jia you!
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CCTV news is now playing recorded interviews with the three crew members. Jing said that he had 1500 - 2000 times of docking trainings by now! :o
He also reported that the training required them to dock with an angular deviation of only 1 degree.
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Liu Wang, who was first in the manual docking examinations, said that his ability in the docking procedures was due to "inborn talent". ::) (although he also said that he had lengthy discussions with CAST engineers on the phone)
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Liu Wang now praising his parents for supporting his road to a fighter jet pilot and astronaut. He also reported to have "100% confidence" in getting the job done.
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Hmm.... Liu Yang said that her original dream was to become an OL, until her high school senior year class teacher decided to help her to apply for a pilot spot in the air force without discussing with her, and now she ended up as an astronaut! ::)
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Yawn..... most parts of the interviews were about the advantages of having a veteran commander, the people they care about the most during the mission (Jing Haipeng's wife, Liu Wang's mother and Liu Yang's husband), the songs they will hear during the mission, yada yada.... :P
And right at the same time, the reporter is also reporting about China's newest deep-sea research submersible going for a 7000 meter dive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaolong_(submersible)).
In the meantime, here're some pictures of the prime crew during the countdown test on Tuesday...
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I wish this crew a successful and safe mission! China's expanding manned space program is something we should all be proud of. The more humans in space, the better! :)
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Attached is a crew profile video
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According to CCTV English language reporting, this crew were selected as the prime crew in March 2012
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In the meantime, here're some pictures of the prime crew during the countdown test on Tuesday...
In one of the pictures (SZ9060) we see Liu Yang in the left-hand seat with Liu Wang in the right-hand seat. On Soyuz, the left-hand seat is the flight engineer, with the right-hand seat available for (for example) a spaceflight participant. So far, we have considered Liu Yang and Wang Yaping to be of 'spaceflight participant' rank. So, why is she in the left-hand seat?
Is the configuration different on Shenzhou?
Was this simply a training and not taken 2 days ago during the countdown rehearsal?
Is the image simply mirror imaged?
Or is she really the prime flight-engineer?
Edit: Inserted picturename.
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In the meantime, here're some pictures of the prime crew during the countdown test on Tuesday...
In one of the pictures (SZ9060) we see Liu Yang in the left-hand seat with Liu Wang in the right-hand seat. On Soyuz, the left-hand seat is the flight engineer, with the right-hand seat available for (for example) a spaceflight participant. Is the configuration different on Shenzhou?
Was this simply a training and not taken 2 days ago during the countdown rehearsal?
Is the image simply mirror imaged?
Or is she really the prime flight-engineer?
Edit: Inserted picturename.
Why would the configuration necessarily be the same as Soyuz?
The 'junior' crew member on SZ sits to the left of the commander.
And you are right, in their abridged training, the two women seem to have been brought up to a similar level of proficiency to an SFP.
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This is a pretty good site with latest updates, including links to today's press conference:
http://english.people.com.cn/102775/205303/index.html
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In one of the pictures (SZ9060) we see Liu Yang in the left-hand seat with Liu Wang in the right-hand seat.
You may note that in this particular image Jing Haipeng and Liu Wang use space suits with the Shenzhou-7 patch while Liu Yang's suit is patch-free. So I think it is a way old photo.
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in Shenzhou-6 left place was free.
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Anyone seen any official confirmation of the back-up crew, or any images or portraits of them?
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Attached is a video of the Shenzhou-9 crew being introduced to the press
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I'm not saying the Chinese are following exactly the same traditions than the russians but...
Here are the two crews.
From left, Wang Yaping, ??, NieHaisheng, Liu Yang, ??, Jing Haipen
Russians (and foreigners flying on a Soyuz) only plant trees if they are prime crew and they haven't been launched from Baikonur previously
Two more photos of one of the crews planting trees at JSLC:
Watching the picture planting trees, the man on the right is Jing Haipen, and watching the haircut of the woman (is short on her ear side) I think isn't the identified as Wang Yaping on the “two crews together” picture.
Hope the Chinese authorities will announce crews soon... :)
It's seems Chinese follow the same traditions as Russians ;D
Any news about the backup (and support) crews:
-Option a) Nie Haisheng - Chen Quan - Wang Yaping ?
-Option b) Nie Haisheng, Zhang Xiaoguan, Wang Yaping ?
And a better caption of the patch (from the previously posted SZ9059 picture)
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Did anyone managed to get the video where the Shenzhou-9 mission taikonauts meet press?
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Did anyone managed to get the video where the Shenzhou-9 mission taikonauts meet press?
It's here, with English voiceover
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120615/116899.shtml
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Some additional pix of the crew and the crew training can be found here:
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-15/108518.shtml
Some pix of the Chinese training facilities can be found here:
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-15/108402.shtml
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Why would the configuration necessarily be the same as Soyuz?
It wouldn't. :) I just didn't know that it differed. Hence my question. Thanks for your answers!
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Quite a few nice pictures! Looks they have re-build some of the installations at NASA ;-) On the second picture, the control panel for the spacecraft looks quite different to the soyuz one, any idea if this is completely self developed? And the last picture, hmm, have my questions ;-) (Edit: looks like an US Abrams main battle tank, count of wheels and signature, but the side line looks a little bit different, but why they have such a picture in the space training centre?)
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Training photos image dump: ;)
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In the meantime, here're some pictures of the prime crew during the countdown test on Tuesday...
In one of the pictures (SZ9060) we see Liu Yang in the left-hand seat with Liu Wang in the right-hand seat. On Soyuz, the left-hand seat is the flight engineer, with the right-hand seat available for (for example) a spaceflight participant. Is the configuration different on Shenzhou?
Was this simply a training and not taken 2 days ago during the countdown rehearsal?
Is the image simply mirror imaged?
Or is she really the prime flight-engineer?
Edit: Inserted picturename.
Why would the configuration necessarily be the same as Soyuz?
The 'junior' crew member on SZ sits to the left of the commander.
And you are right, in their abridged training, the two women seem to have been brought up to a similar level of proficiency to an SFP.
in Shenzhou-6 left place was free.
From Soyuz-12 to Soyuz-40 the Flight Engineer flied on the right seat.
http://www.spacefacts.de/mission/alternate/photo/soyuz-14_3.jpg
http://www.spacefacts.de/mission/alternate/photo/soyuz-39_3.jpg
I think China bought an old Soyuz spacecraft to the Russians but I don't remember which model.
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I think China bought an old Soyuz spacecraft to the Russians but I don't remember which model.
It was a Soyuz TM.
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Ascent/on-orbit Shenzhou visibility -- Taiwan and Okinawa
Get the word out to any observers you know of on those islands
to watch for the Shenzhou launch -- they might have spectacular
back-lit dusk apparitions.
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There's no chance of live video of this is there? Is it still all secret squirrel?
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There's no chance of live video of this is there? Is it still all secret squirrel?
Very good chance of live launch video, I'd say 100% but you never know. CCTV News covered it last time.
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Here are some CCTV News clips:
1) Launch center fuels carrier rocket of Shenzhou-9 => http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=144805
2) Chinese astronauts ready for space mission => http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=144800
3) Astronauts on Shenzhou-9 spaceship confirmed => http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=144773
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If you have a BIG dish, you-all can get CCTV on satellite G-3C on the Ku band.
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3) Astronauts on Shenzhou-9 spaceship confirmed => http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=144773
They'll be on there for 12 hours?
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CCTV is on dish network.
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I think China bought an old Soyuz spacecraft to the Russians but I don't remember which model.
It was a Soyuz TM.
I have no information to confirm that the Chinese bought a Soyuz.
There is a long standing story that a Zond landed off course in China
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I think China bought an old Soyuz spacecraft to the Russians but I don't remember which model.
It was a Soyuz TM.
I have no information to confirm that the Chinese bought a Soyuz.
There is a long standing story that a Zond landed off course in China
The first Soyuz test flight, Cosmos 133, was of course and would have landed in China, so was commanded to self destruct. The Chinese may have recovred some bits but it would not have been very useful and of course was over 40 years ago.
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I think China bought an old Soyuz spacecraft to the Russians but I don't remember which model.
It was a Soyuz TM.
I have no information to confirm that the Chinese bought a Soyuz.
There is a long standing story that a Zond landed off course in China
The first Soyuz test flight, Cosmos 133, was of course and would have landed in China, so was commanded to self destruct. The Chinese may have recovred some bits but it would not have been very useful and of course was over 40 years ago.
I should elaborate; in the case of the Zond, the destruct command was sent when the descent module was below the horizon, and supposedly the capsule landed intact in China, where it was put on exhibit at the PLA museum for many years.
On a related note, I was told by a "highly placed source" in Russia that the Chinese did not pay for an APAS.
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Moved for live coverage
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I should elaborate; in the case of the Zond, the destruct command was sent when the descent module was below the horizon, and supposedly the capsule landed intact in China, where it was put on exhibit at the PLA museum for many years.
On a related note, I was told by a "highly placed source" in Russia that the Chinese did not pay for an APAS.
It is was a Zond the options are:
Cosmos 146 and 154, whose fate is obscure and may have reentered (but could have ended up anywhere anywhere).
Three unnamed launch failures (the most likely?)
Of the named Zonds, 4 came down in the Atlantic, 5 and 8 in the Indian Ocean, 6 and 7 in the USSR.
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Looks like the ignition time is set at 10:37:29 UTC, with liftoff 3 seconds later. (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=203707&fromuid=19646))
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Has CNTV stated when (or if) they'll start broadcasting?
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Hopefully live coverage of Shenzhou 9's launch will be available from
http://english.cntv.cn/live/
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The CMSEO web site is actually pretty good.
Some interesting stuff at http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1204
CZ-2F Y9 will enter orbit at T+585 seconds.
I have so far on the crew:
Jing Haipeng 景海鹏
Born: 1966 Oct 24, Shanxi province
Selected 1998 Jan
Rank: Brigadier (daxiao, 大校)
Crew: Shenzhou 7 神舟七号 fanhuicang zhishou hangtianyuan (descent module monitor astronaut)
Shenzhou 9 指令长 zhi ling zhang (commander)
Liu Wang 刘旺
Born: 1969 Mar Shanxi province
Selected 1998 Jan
Rank: Brigadier
Crew: Shenzhou 9 (position TBD)
Liu Yang 刘洋
Born 1978 Oct Henan province
Selected 2010 May
Rank: Major (shaoxiao, 少校)
Crew: Shenzhou 9 ( position TBD)
Does anyone have the positions of Liu Wang and Liu Yang? by which I mean, the equivalent of 神舟七号 fanhuicang zhishou hangtianyuan (descent module monitor astronaut) like Jing was on his last flight (what we might translate as Command Module Pilot :-))
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CCTV is on dish network.
I found it-channel 884. But it's CCTVESPANOL. A Chinese space launch in Spanish, this could be interesting... :D
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Looks like the ignition time is set at 10:37:29 UTC, with liftoff 3 seconds later. (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=203707&fromuid=19646))
according to this (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=6&pid=158910&fromuid=10)),the liftoff time is set at 10:37:29 UTC ,I’m quite sorry for my fault
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CNTV WILL be broadcasting the launch.
Here's the link to coverage:
http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
Note that it doesn't start until 14:00 BJT.
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Jing Haipeng 景海鹏
Rank: Brigadier (daxiao, 大校)
Liu Wang 刘旺
Rank: Brigadier
In both cases, I prefer the rank to be given as Senior Colonel (four stars vs. one star for Major General in China (and Russia)).
Does anyone have the positions of Liu Wang and Liu Yang? by which I mean, the equivalent of 神舟七号 fanhuicang zhishou hangtianyuan (descent module monitor astronaut) like Jing was on his last flight (what we might translate as Command Module Pilot :-))
It seems none official source point to such positions.
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There is a long standing story that a Zond landed off course in China
This should refer to a launch of 1969-11-28 when Proton third stage failed near the end of its burn and the calculated impact point was 200 km north of Harbin in China. The payload was experimental craft L-1E, the same as Kosmos-382 one year later.
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English language broadcast is on:
mms://a529.l7906022528.c79060.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/529/79060/v0001/reflector:22528
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Andrey Krasilnikov who whatches the English broadcast caught explanation of cosmonaut roles (not formal positions). Liu Wang is essentially SZ-9 pilot and he's interchangeable with Jing Haipeng. Liu Yang is primarily TG-1/SZ-9 payload commander.
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I wish this crew a successful and safe mission! China's expanding manned space program is something we should all be proud of. The more humans in space, the better! :)
2012 will be remembered in history as a great year for space flights ;)
first commercial spacecraft docks at the ISS
first manned docking performed by China
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Very cool graphics...
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CCTV coverage is first class, although the online streaming is about 25 seconds behind 'live'.
The guy who is anchoring the studio discussion seems to be much better briefed and prepared than the people fulfilling that role on previous launches.
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Here you have the taikonauts positions inside SZ-9
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Well guys, I'll have to leave. Fell free to post some shots of the live webcast during launch.
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Walking out to the pad.
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Lets see if I can do this...
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Well guys, I'll have to leave. Fell free to post some shots of the live webcast during launch.
Thanks Rui.
I'll be here in about an hour, as I'm sorting out Rui's article with images.
Seriously, got to read this article. VERY meaty, will be the best preview article on the Western sites by far.
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Sorry 'bout the .png. This one's .jpg
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3
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Sat and put boots on.
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Talking about the deorbit and reentry process and about how it is different from Soyuz
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I am watching on http://english.cntv.cn/live/ but the connection isn't very good. It might be my internet connection of course, but can anyone suggest a better link please?
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switching to command center
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First one in.
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Boarding SZ9
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First seated; second getting seated; third entering through the orbital module.
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Liu Yang getting in
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Jing getting in. They're boarding fast!
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'white room' already being cleaned out
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Back to launch control room. Talking about TG1's air purifying systems
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Commentator: Yesterday TG1 has made a
manure. manoevre.
;D
Love this chinese accent.
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Seating order:
(1) Liu Wang to OM, then to the right seat.
(2) Liu Yang to OM, then to the left seat.
(3) Jing Haipeng to OM, papers signed, broadcast terminated.
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Video with lots of very nice images of the chinese space program. But I'm not fast enough to capture it all. Sorry guys!
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..
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Background story about life around JQ space center. Very nice. But not very interesting to post pictures.
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Report about training
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CCTV stream is excellent. We'll get some good launch shots out of this.
Laggy though.
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Here's Rui's extensive 3,000 word overview for the launch:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/chinese-long-march-2fg-launch-historic-shenzhou-9-mission/
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I'm not fast enough. More reports about the manned space program. Lots of good images. But I'm missing them....
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Now a story about a meeting between the Chinese president and the queen of Denmark. I won't bother you with pictures..
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Now a story about a meeting between the Chinese president and the queen of Denmark. I won't bother you with pictures..
You're doing great. I'll be joining in about T-60 with my VLC stuff.
If anyone has an alternative to mms://a529.l7906022528.c79060.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/529/79060/v0001/reflector:22528 - please post, as it's laggy.
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Some fantastic coverage, plus archive and training footage emerging today.
Why we have all the 'secret squirrel' stuff between missions and then this great outpouring of info. when there's a flight is so frustrating.
Also note that the B/U crew have totally vanished.....no names, no photos and nowhere to be seen at the launch site, unlike previous flights, when they weren't too far away.
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That was a very nice movie about the buildup to the SZ9 mission. I was watching too intently to grab screenshots. Sorry. :)
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Now a story about a meeting between the Chinese president and the queen of Denmark. I won't bother you with pictures..
You're doing great. I'll be joining in about T-60 with my VLC stuff.
If anyone has an alternative to mms://a529.l7906022528.c79060.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/529/79060/v0001/reflector:22528 - please post, as it's laggy.
a) you should know better. laggy != buffering
b) all streams have been buffering like crazy for 3 days, if you want to try other cctv channels: http://watch.squidtv.net/asia/china.html#01
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Start of launch pad swing arms opening.
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More nice pics. :)
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..
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Now a story about a meeting between the Chinese president and the queen of Denmark. I won't bother you with pictures..
You're doing great. I'll be joining in about T-60 with my VLC stuff.
If anyone has an alternative to mms://a529.l7906022528.c79060.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/529/79060/v0001/reflector:22528 - please post, as it's laggy.
http://www.tv007.net/tv/21.html
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Thanks, but it's a VLC link I need, for screenshots.
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Official speaking the usual beautiful words...
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That was a very nice movie about the buildup to the SZ9 mission. I was watching too intently to grab screenshots. Sorry. :)
Most of those video packages eventually turn up here and can be downloaded at your convenience:-
http://search.cntv.cn/english/index.shtml?&type=web&qtext=Shenzhou-9
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SZ8 - TG1 impressions...
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..
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..
-
..
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That was a very nice movie about the buildup to the SZ9 mission. I was watching too intently to grab screenshots. Sorry. :)
Most of those video packages eventually turn up here and can be downloaded at your convenience:-
http://search.cntv.cn/english/index.shtml?&type=web&qtext=Shenzhou-9
That's good. :) It's very nice coverage although not really a lot of news for those of us following spaceflight closely.
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I would be interested if the Chinese announce an actual mass for Shenzhou 9: I don't think that they did this for Shenzhou 8.
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Report about the fairing and LAS
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Launch simulations
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Spiff, what is shown in sz9_38?
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oohhh, nice cgi...
-
..
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CZ-2F/G Y9 launch cyclogram
-
.
-
.
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Spiff, what is shown in sz9_38?
Test of the LAS on a rocket sled. :)
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Spiff: Are you getting your screencaps off http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml ?
If yes that's funny, because I only get a replay of the crew introduction there..
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Interesting that the diagrams regularly show three people in Tiangong 1, although the Chinese have said that one person will always remain in Shenzhou 9. Also, I think I heard a comment that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module will be where the third crew member will sleep, with only two sleep areas inside Tiangong itself.
-
interview with Karl Bergquist?
Intl. relations director ESA (or some title like that. Correct me if I'm wrong)
-
This stream seems to be running more smoothly in VLC: mms://219.90.61.6/cctv9-tw
But the bitrate is not so good..
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Spiff: Are you getting your screencaps off http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml ?
If yes that's funny, because I only get a replay of the crew introduction there..
indeed I am. Odd....
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This stream seems to be running more smoothly in VLC: mms://219.90.61.6/cctv9-tw
But the bitrate is not so good..
AWESOME! Thanks, that's so much better. Now I can help Spiff ;D
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Chinese specialist commenting that China will welcome intl. coorperation and also intl astronauts on future TG stations. I think that's a first....
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This stream seems to be running more smoothly in VLC: mms://219.90.61.6/cctv9-tw
But the bitrate is not so good..
AWESOME! Thanks, that's so much better. Now I can help Spiff ;D
Especially when things start to move fast. Windows cut'n'paste program is waaaayyyy to slow for a launch. I should get VLC too, people seem happy with it here...
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1H05
-
Interesting debate on NASA's future direction. John Lewis noting his usually strange stance by citing Planetary Resources and not SpaceX, etc.
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Interesting that the diagrams regularly show three people in Tiangong 1, although the Chinese have said that one person will always remain in Shenzhou 9. Also, I think I heard a comment that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module will be where the third crew member will sleep, with only two sleep areas inside Tiangong itself.
I'm guessing Yang is the one sleeping in SZ9. Separation of sexes and all that....
... talking about asteroid mining
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Presenter has to note SpaceX. Chinese guest knows his stuff, even mentions SLS!
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talking 'bout SpaceX and cancelled constellation program now.
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T-1h
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John Lewis doing his usual routine of slagging off NASA.
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Prof. Lewis not making any nice NASA comments....
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http://v.ifeng.com/live/#5435BFA3-210B-4F4F-A90F-BCB1C4C40D59 works also that + Greenshot open source screengrabber give better quality grabs than using vlc. just sayin
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I hope they'll allow her to get out of there!
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That's a lot of pad structure to rotate out with 50 mins to go!
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Ah she just reported that she is...
I'm happy for her. :)
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Let's keep the chatter down. Getting close to launch.
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Weather is 'favorable'
Upper platforms have rotated away. Missed the screenshot though.
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Some fantastic coverage, plus archive and training footage emerging today.
Why we have all the 'secret squirrel' stuff between missions and then this great outpouring of info. when there's a flight is so frustrating.
Also note that the B/U crew have totally vanished.....no names, no photos and nowhere to be seen at the launch site, unlike previous flights, when they weren't too far away.
I agree with you Tony.
The only doubt for the B/U crew is Liu Wang's backup
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Launch control room. With nice explanation about functions that I mostly missed. Silly me...
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Live view of the reentry module with crew.
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Review of the docking system by the very knowledgeable guy on the panel.
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T-45 minutes.
Like this guy. He's objective and knowledgable.
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Service Tower starting to open up!
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anyone recording the broadcast?
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whoops, chris made the same comment already. :)
Tower rotating away.
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Faster than the Shuttle RSS.
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We don't use solids, we use liquids, as they are more reliable. ATK won't be retweeting that! ;)
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more, with ticker comment especially for Chris (and other british)
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whoops, chris made the same comment already. :)
Tower rotating away.
It's cool! I'd rather have a duplicate, rather than miss something! ;) Yes, enjoying the ticker reference! Won't say anymore or I'll have to moderate myself :)
Only took about three mins to rotate that all the way out. Top level next.
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beautiful rocket in afternoon sun.
-
.
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HD television screenshot
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You really can see the Soyuz reference design via the capsule view. Very similar! Heh, ticker again. ;D
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comparing ShenZhou to Soyuz.
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HD television screenshot
Where can we find that HD feed?
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Nice sideway on view.
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Top level (or middle level) opening.
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Yeah, one more level to go after this one opens.
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You really can see the Soyuz reference design via the capsule view. Very similar! Heh, ticker again. ;D
But definitely larger.
-
-
-
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Must be coming up on pad clear.
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Yep, ground crew departing.
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tower opening further
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Darn it, I lost the feed. Anyone else have this problem?
-
.
-
VLC is intermittent for me. Requesting the HD stream address.
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And the last platforms opening.
-
-
Yes, the streams are getting patchy. Don't need 50 people to post it.
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final part of tower opening
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-
.
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T-20 mins.
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T-20 and all systems on my feed are still working well. (Desparately looking for some wood to knock on)
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Another web feed from rt.com: http://rt.com/on-air/china-launch-first-manned-mission/
-
.
-
Lift-off time set for 18:37:24 or 25 Beijing.
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more hi-def screenshot - from a satellite feed, not a web address.
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Looks like they are conducting a poll.
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.
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T-15 mins.
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T-15m.
My feed is a bit behind. I'll try to keep going through launch, but it will be a bit delayed.
polling
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T-11 mins on the clock.
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initial orbit 200x330 if I heard correctly
-
-
T-11m
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Ignition time set to 18:37:21, expected take off at 18:37:24.909
-
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They polled all the consoles (call sign No. 26, 27 etc. , which apparently is similar to the Russian routine), all GREEN. The launch director (console no. 0) also called for the last teams at the pad to retreat.
BTW today's launch director is Wang Jun.
-
-
more polling going on
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Coming up on T-5 minutes
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T- 6 mins
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Crew just closed visors
-
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Now polling the tracking ships downrange...
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.
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Some of the top people ready to watch the launch.
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T-60 seconds.
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officials
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1 minute
-
LAUNCH!!
-
-
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First use of onboard rocketcam! ??
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Staging. Booster Sep.
-
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Booster sep view
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Wow, some great views. Fairing Jettison.
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Late launch images. :)
-
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more
-
-
-
.
-
-
.
-
.
-
.
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In orbit.
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compulsory waving
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Well done China! I salute you - we ALL salute you. All the greatest success for this important mission and may your great crew return safely.
GO CHINA!! :)
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S/C Sep!
Wow, sep was dramatic.
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Congratulations China! Sorry about that, but it seems my RT feed was about 1 min ahead of the CCTV one.
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Crew happy. Gave a handshake, didn't capture it though.
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Looks like stage 2 sep happened just after engine cutoff - I thought there was a couple minute delay on earlier flights
solar panels deployed!
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Solar Arrays deployed
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on orbit!
Happy Chinese engineers! :)
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Solar arrays deployed
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Thumbs up!
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Congratulations China, Marvellous views!
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Captured ingition:
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Right, I've got to go do day job stuff, so many thanks to Spiff for this great work with the coverage.
Here's Rui's great article on the launch:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/chinese-long-march-2fg-launch-historic-shenzhou-9-mission/
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launch replays including happy melodramatic music. Cant blame them. GO CHINA!
:)
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I saw something on the spacecraft appear to move right after that post-separation attitude burn. Any idea what it was?
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Thanks for the screenshots Chris and Spiff! After some adventure trying to get a working feed I turned on CNN just before main ignition and caught the first couple of minutes of the liftoff, but they didn't go up to booster separation, much less spacecraft separation.
So it was good to see the spacecraft sep stills here.
Congratulations and good luck to the Shenzhou 9 crew.
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Thank you everyone for the coverage - it was filling in the gaps nicely as my internet connection was freezing!
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Nice pics of boosters and booster sep
(sorry about the 5 pics per post)
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Looks like stage 2 sep happened just after engine cutoff - I thought there was a couple minute delay on earlier flights
solar panels deployed!
The second stage main engine shuts down at T+ 463 seconds, but the verniers burn for another 2 minutes and shut down at T+ 582 seconds. S/C separation comes 3 seconds later.
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EDIT: Poor or no coverage on Sky News, CNN, Fox, BBC World and others? Terrible! Even I didn't expect that. :( That's why sites like this are the future of Space News, not 'mainstream' media.
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Right, I've got to go do day job stuff, so many thanks to Spiff for this great work with the coverage.
Here's Rui's great article on the launch:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/chinese-long-march-2fg-launch-historic-shenzhou-9-mission/
You're quite welcome! Happy to finally be doing something back for this fantastic site!
Lots of happy Chinese officials now.
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Go China! Congrats! :)
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Back in the studio
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we all have "manipulation & control on what the common people should know",ah, you can search the independent movie: war on democracy :'( :-[
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Now to patiently wait for YouTube to get the complete launch video loaded up so I can download it
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the 9:00pm news on cctv-13 is usually a repeat of the 7:00pm cctv-1 news, but today they produce a new one due to the SZ-9 mission ::)
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Now to patiently wait for YouTube to get the complete launch video loaded up so I can download it
OR, you could wait for John44 to post it in better quality:
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=1&id=1&Itemid=57
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EDIT: Poor or no coverage on Sky News, CNN, Fox, BBC World and others? Terrible! Even I didn't expect that. :( That's why sites like this are the future of Space News, not 'mainstream' media.
CNN's iPad app didn't have live coverage of this. However it covered all of Nik Wallenda's tightrope walk last night. Priorities. :(
However at least their cable channel had the launch live and I caught it just in time. Hopefully NSF.com can develop an iPad/Android app in the future that will offer full coverage plus the forums. And I'm willing to keep subscribing to L2 to help fund it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViA5iCHcdTg
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Pre-launch events and lift-off photos: http://news.ifeng.com/photo/hdnews/detail_2012_06/16/15349162_0.shtml
-
EDIT: Poor or no coverage on Sky News, CNN, Fox, BBC World and others? Terrible! Even I didn't expect that. :( That's why sites like this are the future of Space News, not 'mainstream' media.
The same in Europe. News channels did not mention the launch, not even in the "urgent news lines". Instead they report about the investigation of a recent multiple child murderer (the father of the kids)... I just phoned one of those main stream channels and gave them NASA Spaceflight.com as the reference. But still no reaction...
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When will the docking and crew ingress of TG-1 expected to take place?
-
EDIT: Poor or no coverage on Sky News, CNN, Fox, BBC World and others? Terrible! Even I didn't expect that. :( That's why sites like this are the future of Space News, not 'mainstream' media.
Very disapointing, especially given the massive coverage of SpaceX.
However CCTV is the mainstream media of the future.
A BBC story has just gone up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18458544
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When will the docking and crew ingress of TG-1 expected to take place?
I heard that the docking is scheduled at around 06:00 UTC on June 18 (2 pm Beijing / 2 am EDT / 8 am CEDT).
-
Waiting for object 38461 in U.S. catalog.
-
The fact that the middle astronaut has to launch in that position really brings home how small the capsule is.
-
The fact that the middle astronaut has to launch in that position really brings home how small the capsule is.
It's already quite spacey.... look at Soyuz! ::) (for those who don't know, Shenzhou's descent module is 2.6 meters in diameter, compared to 2.2 meters of the Soyuz)
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... and then I got called away. After most of the action luckily enough. :)
Here's just a couple of other random screenshots to finish of my contribution to the launch.
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.
-
.
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CCTV reporter said docking on Monday 18th would be 15:00 Beijing time.
-
The exact launch time is 10:37:24.558 UTC (last digit a bit uncertain).
-
CCTV reporter said docking on Monday 18th would be 15:00 Beijing time.
If Beijing is on summer time that matches 06:00 UTC nicely
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Great coverage here! Thanks a lot! And congrats to China, of course!
Did anybody catch the orbital parameters? Initial orbit was planned to be perigee 200 km and apogee 330 km. Was this achieved?
-
Congrats to China!
Thanks for such great coverage everyone!
-
Well done! Good motivation for us in the west…
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CCTV reporter said docking on Monday 18th would be 15:00 Beijing time.
If Beijing is on summer time that matches 06:00 UTC nicely
they had tried to use summer time in the 1980s, but finally stopped this practice long ago, so, 15:00 BJ local time= 7:00 UTC
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Well done China.
I hope we will be able to spot the Shenzou 9 in the sky along with the Chinese "Space Station".
-
EDIT: Poor or no coverage on Sky News, CNN, Fox, BBC World and others? Terrible! Even I didn't expect that. :( That's why sites like this are the future of Space News, not 'mainstream' media.
That's for sure. I don't even bother to watch TV any more.
I've watched live Russian launches on the web, thanks to heads-up alerts from this site.
Alas, despite hearing about this launch last night, I completely forgot to watch it this morning. :( But that's my own fault.
My sincere best wishes to the Chinese. We're still at an early stage where every manned flight is a big deal.
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For those who missed the launch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9DDnRRgtQ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9DDnRRgtQ4)
-
The exact launch time is 10:37:24.558 UTC (last digit a bit uncertain)
Another image: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/16/131657547_51n.jpg
See enlarged view on picture 1.
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You can't really expect good coverage in the US of a Communist competitor's launch. Even the latest Dragon mission never rated so much as a mention on TV down here. I do recall seeing something about the very first (non-ISS) Dragon where it was described as the 'replacement shuttle' not 'shuttle replacement', and the capsule itself was referred to as "...the aircraft."!
Forget about free-to-air coverage. Most people don't care, or have the attention-span of goldfish and journalists treat them accordingly :( Just be happy L2 is here.
-
Photos of the pre-launch departure ceremony:
-
And of the launch:
-
Any word of visual sightings from Okinawa and Kyushu?
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Spacecraft separation took place at 1046:58.841UTC.
-
The exact launch time is 10:37:24.558 UTC (last digit a bit uncertain)
Another image: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/16/131657547_51n.jpg
See enlarged view on picture 1.
More pictures at the Beijing control center:
-
Initial orbital parameters were 200.019 x 330.163 x 42.836 degrees
-
Photo 106 on previous page shows spectators viewing the launch.
Would you say they are less than a mile away.... seem to be in front of the "VAB" which I believe is a mile from the pad.
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Congrats to China! Next step rendezvous and docking.
-
That was all mighty impressive. It is a shame that the Chinese do it so infrequently, Hopefully that will start to change now!
As an aside, I think that Major Liu Yang takes the title of the most recently born person to fly in space, from Soyeon Yi. (October 1978 versus June 1978).
Will Wang Yaping, who is born in January 1980, become the first 80's child in space on SZ-10, or has her chance gone?
-
Can anyone confirm that the docking with TG-1 is schedule for 0625UTC on June 18?
-
That was all mighty impressive. It is a shame that the Chinese do it so infrequently, Hopefully that will start to change now!
As an aside, I think that Major Liu Yang takes the title of the most recently born person to fly in space, from Soyeon Yi. (October 1978 versus June 1978).
Will Wang Yaping, who is born in January 1980, become the first 80's child in space on SZ-10, or has her chance gone?
According to my info, Wang Yaping was born in April 1978.
-
Was this the first time China provided live coverage with so much details? That means they have enough confidence in the success. And rightly so.
Great news! Congrats to China!
-
Can anyone confirm that the docking with TG-1 is schedule for 0625UTC on June 18?
Being selfish, if it is then I can watch it before I have to set off to work! But I'll miss the entry into Tiangong.
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CZ-2F/G Y9 launch cyclogram
Can someone confirm the correct translation?
Separation LES 120.000
End boosters and 1 stage burn 154.790
Boosters separation 159.003
Stage 1 separation 159.503
PLF separation 212.503
Second stg main engine cut-off463.091
Second stg vernier cut-off 582.091
Shenzhou-9 separation 585.091
Did anyone managed to get the actual flight times?
-
That was all mighty impressive. It is a shame that the Chinese do it so infrequently, Hopefully that will start to change now!
As an aside, I think that Major Liu Yang takes the title of the most recently born person to fly in space, from Soyeon Yi. (October 1978 versus June 1978).
Will Wang Yaping, who is born in January 1980, become the first 80's child in space on SZ-10, or has her chance gone?
According to my info, Wang Yaping was born in April 1978.
I agree that April 1978 has been widely reported, but according to a Chinese language book 'Flowers in the Sky' (published by the PLA in 2009) about female pilots, and profiling both Liu and Wang, she is born 27th January 1980. This also ties in with her biography, which says she was 17 when she went to aviation college in 1997.
She probably lied about her age at some time to get into pubs and clubs ;)
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Initial orbital parameters were 200.019 x 330.163 x 42.836 degrees
First U.S. elset gives 42.71°, 197.2x315.5 km over sphere and 202.2x321.7 km over Earth ellipsoid, 89.54 min.
-
Various reports today that suggest SZ-9 will conduct an initial automated docking with TG-1, and then at some unspecified point will undock, and attempt to re-dock manually. This will mimic the SZ-8 mission (although obviously both docking were automated).
I'm sure that this is the first time this flight plan has been mentioned and that all previous Chinese statements had inferred that the initial docking would be manual?
-
More pictures at the Beijing control center
Thank you!
So for the history exact launch times of all Shenzhou spacecrafts (in UTC):
Shenzhou-1 - 19.11.1999 22:30:03.500
Shenzhou-2 - 09.01.2001 17:00:03.561
Shenzhou-3 - 25.03.2002 14:15:03.544
Shenzhou-4 - 29.12.2002 16:40:03.543
Shenzhou-5 - 15.10.2003 01:00:03.497
Shenzhou-6 - 12.10.2005 01:00:03.583
Shenzhou-7 - 25.09.2008 13:10:04.988
Shenzhou-8 - 31.10.2011 21:58:10.430
Shenzhou-9 - 16.06.2012 10:37:24.558
Sorry for many figures.
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Spacecraft separation took place at 1046:58.841UTC.
so launch +574 s which is slightly earlier than expected.
Watching the stream I thought it was about a minute earlier than that, I guess I need to check my ntp server...
She probably lied about her age at some time to get into pubs and clubs
ROTFLMAO!
Do we have exact birthdate for Liu Wang or Liu Yang? I have 1969 Mar and 1978 Oct respectively.
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Various reports today that suggest SZ-9 will conduct an initial automated docking with TG-1, and then at some unspecified point will undock, and attempt to re-dock manually
There is information in Xinhua report (in Russian) that the first (automated) docking will be on June 18th, the first undocking and the second (manual) docking will be on June 24th.
http://russian.news.cn/dossiers/2012-06/16/c_131657557.htm
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CZ-2F/G Y9 launch cyclogram
Can someone confirm the correct translation?
Separation LES 120.000
End boosters and 1 stage burn 154.790
Boosters separation 159.003
Stage 1 separation 159.503
PLF separation 212.503
Second stg main engine cut-off463.091
Second stg vernier cut-off 582.091
Shenzhou-9 separation 585.091
Did anyone managed to get the actual flight times?
Close. The second term is booster separation, the third one being first stage shutdown and the fourth one being first stage separation.
The actual flight times can be seen at 1:41 in this launch replay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQht3L8aOs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQht3L8aOs)
Separation LES 120.274
Boosters separation 153.765
Stage 1 shutdown 155.090
Stage 1 separation 156.428
PLF separation 208.978
Second stg main engine cut-off455.903
Second stg vernier cut-off 571.276
Shenzhou-9 separation 574.316
-
Various reports today that suggest SZ-9 will conduct an initial automated docking with TG-1, and then at some unspecified point will undock, and attempt to re-dock manually. This will mimic the SZ-8 mission (although obviously both docking were automated).
I'm sure that this is the first time this flight plan has been mentioned and that all previous Chinese statements had inferred that the initial docking would be manual?
The fact that two dockings are planned, the first automated and the second manual, had been mentioned about four days ago by one of the leading engineers of China's manned space program in an interview with Chinese media: http://www.stdaily.com/stdaily/content/2012-06/12/content_480726.htm
The flight plan has also been mentioned at yesterday's press conference by Mrs. Wu Ping, spokesperson of CMSE: http://english.people.com.cn/202936/7847875.html
You can find the text of her statement here: http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1204
-
Various reports today that suggest SZ-9 will conduct an initial automated docking with TG-1, and then at some unspecified point will undock, and attempt to re-dock manually. This will mimic the SZ-8 mission (although obviously both docking were automated).
I'm sure that this is the first time this flight plan has been mentioned and that all previous Chinese statements had inferred that the initial docking would be manual?
Thanks for that clarification. So it has only emerged in the last few days, that there will be both manual and automatic dockings.
The fact that two dockings are planned, the first automated and the second manual, had been mentioned about four days ago by one of the leading engineers of China's manned space program in an interview with Chinese media: http://www.stdaily.com/stdaily/content/2012-06/12/content_480726.htm
The flight plan has also been mentioned at yesterday's press conference by Mrs. Wu Ping, spokesperson of CMSE: http://english.people.com.cn/202936/7847875.html
You can find the text of her statement here: http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1204
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At this time I'm puzzle by the lack of information or any photos regarding the back-up crew. Your thoughts?
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Close. The second term is booster separation, the third one being first stage shutdown and the fourth one being first stage separation.
Separation LES 120.274
Boosters separation 153.765
Stage 1 shutdown 155.090
Stage 1 separation 156.428
PLF separation 208.978
Second stg main engine cut-off455.903
Second stg vernier cut-off 571.276
Shenzhou-9 separation 574.316
Nice. Are these times relative to ignition, or relative to liftoff?
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Jing Haipeng 景海鹏
Rank: Brigadier (daxiao, 大校)
Liu Wang 刘旺
Rank: Brigadier
In both cases, I prefer the rank to be given as Senior Colonel (four stars vs. one star for Major General in China (and Russia)).
Does anyone have the positions of Liu Wang and Liu Yang? by which I mean, the equivalent of 神舟七号 fanhuicang zhishou hangtianyuan (descent module monitor astronaut) like Jing was on his last flight (what we might translate as Command Module Pilot :-))
It seems none official source point to such positions.
But "Senior Colonel" doesn't really have any resonance for UK and US readers. "Brig" (as a field rank above Col., not as a US-style general officer rank) is familiar to Brits, and to Dr Who fans in the US :-)
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Does anyone have the positions of Liu Wang and Liu Yang? by which I mean, the equivalent of 神舟七号 fanhuicang zhishou hangtianyuan (descent module monitor astronaut) like Jing was on his last flight (what we might translate as Command Module Pilot :-))
It seems none official source point to such positions.
So perhaps for now we can record them as just 'hangtianyuan' (astronaut)
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Can someone check my math: I believe that Liu Yang is the 57th woman in space
(and 535th hominid, defining space as above 80 km)
I note that the first woman astronaut born in China was Shannon Lucid; Liu Yang is of course the first Han woman and first female Chinese citizen in space.
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I believe that Liu Yang is the 57th woman in space
By my count she is the 56th. No. 55 was Shannon Walker (http://www.collectspace.com/review/womeninspaceday.html) in 2010.
And it has probably already been mentioned (I haven't read the entire thread) but Liu launched on the 49th flight anniversary of the first woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova.
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I believe that Liu Yang is the 57th woman in space
By my count she is the 56th. No. 55 was Shannon Walker (http://www.collectspace.com/review/womeninspaceday.html) in 2010.
And it has probably already been mentioned (I haven't read the entire thread) but Liu launched on the 49th flight anniversary of the first woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova.
Hmm yes - I incorrectly included McAuliffe, sorry
Thanks for the correction
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(http://i.imgur.com/TIFSI.png)
parameter name, actual measured value, theoretical value
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Are these times relative to ignition, or relative to liftoff?
Jonathan, simple math gives you an answer: 10:46:58.841 UTC (SZ-9 separation time) minus 09:34.316 equals 10:37:24.525, i.e. close to 10:37:24.558 (CZ-2F/G liftoff time).
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Do we have video or still-images of the crew removing their pressure-suits and going into...shirtsleeve environment?
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Are these times relative to ignition, or relative to liftoff?
Jonathan, simple math gives you an answer: 10:46:58.841 UTC (SZ-9 separation time) minus 09:34.316 equals 10:37:24.525, i.e. close to 10:37:24.558 (CZ-2F/G liftoff time).
RIght, I wasn't certain that sep time was independent data - thanks.
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But "Senior Colonel" doesn't really have any resonance for UK and US readers. "Brig" (as a field rank above Col., not as a US-style general officer rank) is familiar to Brits, and to Dr Who fans in the US :-)
True, but Senior Colonel is still a Colonel while Brigadier General is already a General. Different level, which is important in the military service.
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But "Senior Colonel" doesn't really have any resonance for UK and US readers. "Brig" (as a field rank above Col., not as a US-style general officer rank) is familiar to Brits, and to Dr Who fans in the US :-)
True, but Senior Colonel is still a Colonel while Brigadier General is already a General. Different level, which is important in the military service.
Indeed it is, which is why your post is puzzling -- please re-read jcm's post above, where he explains that the British rank of "Brigadier" (to which he was referring) is NOT on the same level as the US rank of "Brigadier General", but IS on the same level as your "Senior Colonel".
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BBC News and Sky did not cover the launch live although CNN Europe did break into their normal programming to show it. It was quite a while before the UK's news programmes showed any interest. The ITV 10pm broadcast was great fun with some great gems such as:
"If all goes according to plan for the three astronauts it will herald China's arrival as a key player in the space race."
"first to dock with China's orbiting space laboratory which will eventually become a fully fledged space station"
They also described Liu Yang as a fighter pilot.
Without doubt the best place to watch/read about the launch was this website and the links provided. Thanks to all involved.
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Very interesting. No female astronauts from China have ever gone to space before. Wow. :) Anyway, I congratulate Mrs. Liu Yang, the first-ever female "taikonaut". ^_^ 幹得好,朋友! (well done, friend)!
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BBC News and Sky did not cover the launch live although CNN Europe did break into their normal programming to show it. It was quite a while before the UK's news programmes showed any interest. The ITV 10pm broadcast was great fun with some great gems such as:
"If all goes according to plan for the three astronauts it will herald China's arrival as a key player in the space race."
"first to dock with China's orbiting space laboratory which will eventually become a fully fledged space station"
They also described Liu Yang as a fighter pilot.
Without doubt the best place to watch/read about the launch was this website and the links provided. Thanks to all involved.
I missed most of this event but this website has the best coverage that I can see out there. I think I've read every post in this thread. Well done everyone for the informative coverage. Looking forward to the docking coverage.
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Congratulations China! Not only on the launch, but on what looks like one of the most amazing broadcasts. I'm just seeing bit around here, but it seems to have been very informative.
BTW, what did the expert revealed about the docking system?
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It was very interesting to actually be in China (Suzhou) for this launch. I will add my congratulations on an excellent launch.
Being in a hotel here I was able to see the very limited coverage on CNN and BBC, but I was also able to see the CCTV channels. CCTV News was helpful for the English descriptions, but much of the commentary was painful to long endure. CCTV1 was similar, but with Chinese commentary. CCTV4 was the saving grace, carrying mostly the raw feeds from the launch site and control center. Although I could not understand the language, the rhythms of a launch are very familiar.
I was particularly happy to get long looks at the operation of the launch pad structures. RSSx8 is quite the system. I was also surprised by seeing all of the swing-arms retracted before T-0, but that may be an advantage to a rocket without cryogenic propellants (all stages are apparently N2O4/UDMH.)
Well done
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But "Senior Colonel" doesn't really have any resonance for UK and US readers. "Brig" (as a field rank above Col., not as a US-style general officer rank) is familiar to Brits, and to Dr Who fans in the US :-)
True, but Senior Colonel is still a Colonel while Brigadier General is already a General. Different level, which is important in the military service.
Right that was exactly my point - a "Brigadier" (UK) is NOT a "Brigadier General" (US) - the level break is at a different point in the UK system, or maybe I've got it all wrong - Chris could straighten me out on this point.
Apologies because we are getting a wee bit off topic here!!
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Great start to an important mission. My best wishes are with the Chinese.
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I can hardly believe how the news here treats this historic moment in space. A small link on the CNN page.
Is there something so horridly wrong about being happy that China is the third nation to have launched a woman into space or a mission to a space station?
Congress treats their space program like crap because of issues completely outside of it. Conspiracy theories fly. The thought of cooperation is seen as the great evil here.
I don't see this as some kind of china .gov media PR stunt. I see it as a wonderful moment for the people of China. Is that so wrong CNN and other major media?
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We really need to think about how we are treating the Chinese especially when it relates to the ISS. We should invite Liu Yang as a special Chinese envoy to the station. You need to start somewhere. We need to think back to Apollo-Soyuz and that situation at the time. The space programs needs that kind of moment all over again.
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I can hardly believe how the news here treats this historic moment in space. A small link on the CNN page.
Is there something so horridly wrong about being happy that China is the third nation to have launched a woman into space or a mission to a space station?
Congress treats their space program like crap because of issues completely outside of it. Conspiracy theories fly. The thought of cooperation is seen as the great evil here.
I don't see this as some kind of china .gov media PR stunt. I see it as a wonderful moment for the people of China. Is that so wrong CNN and other major media?
USA has long been dedicated in “painting” China as an evil Communist Dictatorship to all people on this earth who are all living in the Anglo-Saxon mastered White race centred Old World Order (which was established since the industrial revolution).
China's image on Western Mainstream Press or Media must be linked to "human rights, boarder disputes, poor, corruption, grey side in its society"and so on(mainly buzz-phrases and political double-standard). Any "totally positive" story about China will not allowed to be published without manipulation. They never really have ever cared about justice or fair or general welfare of people other than the WASPs . This "political correctness" also can be well applied to other western developed industrial countries. Deutsche Welle broadcasted the SZ-9 news using a very "twisted tune".
But I shall say, that if you have a historic view, east aisa was always the main player on our planet for the most part of human history(BC 1600-AD1840),and still is the main power which is not under total Western control nowadays. The east asian countries are just recovering from the low tide and back to status quo.So,this is unacceptable to the Amaricans,then, it must be an evil, at least to the politicians. Jon Meade Huntsman,Jr. has publicly talking about using "our friends within China to destory the industrial progresses and unity of China, so then we(the US)can regain our industries and Up, and China shall Down".
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A/ Do we know what model cameras the taikonauts are carrying aboard?
B/ Are there plans to release any hi-res shots of TG-1 on orbit or are we going to end up in a Salyut-1 situation: despite the historic nature of the station being the world's first, not a single on-orbit shot released EVER, despite the collapse of the USSR...
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Right that was exactly my point - a "Brigadier" (UK) is NOT a "Brigadier General" (US) - the level break is at a different point in the UK system, or maybe I've got it all wrong - Chris could straighten me out on this point.
Apologies because we are getting a wee bit off topic here!!
The easy thing to do in these cases is to consult the NATO standards. Brigadier General(US) and Brigadier(UK) are both NATO rank OF-6 and therefore equivalent, as is, for example the Greek rank of Taxiarchos. A usual practice is to term them all 'One Stars'. The easiest way to access the NATO rank system is via Wikipedia, which is, on this occasion, reliable.
If 'General' had any particular importance in this context then, because they don't have any rank containing a word equivalent to 'General' all Greek officers, including the head of their army, would rank somewhere around a US/UK Colonel. Also the British rank of Field Marshal would rank below a US Brigadier General when in fact it outranks all UK 'Generals' and is equivalent to the US rank General of the Army - they are 'Five Stars'.
The words used to describe a rank are a poor guide as there are many peculiarities. For example, in the British army 'Corporal' is the name given to men of the Household Cavalry who hold the NATO rank of OR-6. In the rest of the British army the rank is usually named Sargent and it is equivalent to a US Army or Marine Staff Sargent and they all outrank a USAF Staff Sergeant (the equivalent being Technical Sargent).
Anyway, back to the topic
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Congratulations, China!
In the spirit of good-natured national rivalry, let the race into the cosmos continue! And may the friendship between nations be strengthened in the great void.
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I can hardly believe how the news here treats this historic moment in space. A small link on the CNN page.
Is there something so horridly wrong about being happy that China is the third nation to have launched a woman into space or a mission to a space station?
Congress treats their space program like crap because of issues completely outside of it. Conspiracy theories fly. The thought of cooperation is seen as the great evil here.
I don't see this as some kind of china .gov media PR stunt. I see it as a wonderful moment for the people of China. Is that so wrong CNN and other major media?
It's not just China. The U.S. media ignores the U.S. space program, too. They are equal opportunity when it comes to turning a blind eye toward space. The Shuttles have gotten more coverage on their way to museums than they have since the Columbia disaster.
My thought is that the U.S. media in general doesn't want to do something that they think will lead to a new space race. And that they have the impression the public they want to speak to isn't interested They've had polls showing just about everyone under 40 has no interest in space exploration and consider it a waste of money. No, I can't tell you where they found their sample, but I suspect a small "smarter than thou" coffee shop in some metro area. ;)
So it's not nationalism or racism so much as apathy and wanting to keep the news narrative on the stories they hope to win media awards with, would be my guess.
Personally I consider it a landmark event and a great thing for humanity. The people who've worked on this are lucky to have had the opportunity to do so, have done a great job, and are clearly supported better from upstairs than many working on our own efforts have been.
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PLEASE! No politics here on the LIVE thread, I want to read updates to this mission. We can talk about space politics and country issues on other threads. Thanx.
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At this time I'm puzzle by the lack of information or any photos regarding the back-up crew. Your thoughts?
I'm puzzled too. However, this post-launch news package does contain a studio interview with Nie Haisheng. Can any of our Chinese speakers tell is if he says anything about his role, or the back-up crew generally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHp0pNgrEk&feature=g-all-u
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At this time I'm puzzle by the lack of information or any photos regarding the back-up crew. Your thoughts?
I'm puzzled too. However, this post-launch news package does contain a studio interview with Nie Haisheng. Can any of our Chinese speakers tell is if he says anything about his role, or the back-up crew generally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHp0pNgrEk&feature=g-all-u
Well he said that their post-launch role is providing ground support, as they have gone through the same training and exams as the prime crew. He said that they can provide help to the prime crew if they have any problems in orbit, even by using simulators. They would also be able to support them psychologically.
So that's more or less similar to the role of ground support astronaut/cosmonaut teams in the US and Russia.
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I'm not sure if this is right or not, but it states that the automatic docking to TG-1 is scheduled at 09:00 - 09:30 UTC tomorrow, while the manual docking test is scheduled at 04:40 - 05:10 UTC on June 24.
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=204204&fromuid=19646)
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At this time I'm puzzle by the lack of information or any photos regarding the back-up crew. Your thoughts?
I'm puzzled too. However, this post-launch news package does contain a studio interview with Nie Haisheng. Can any of our Chinese speakers tell is if he says anything about his role, or the back-up crew generally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHp0pNgrEk&feature=g-all-u
Well he said that their post-launch role is providing ground support, as they have gone through the same training and exams as the prime crew. He said that they can provide help to the prime crew if they have any problems in orbit, even by using simulators. They would also be able to support them psychologically.
So that's more or less similar to the role of ground support astronaut/cosmonaut teams in the US and Russia.
Thanks for that very helpful translation. That's good. At least there is some acknowledgement that they are the back-up crew, and there is nothing sinister in the lack of names, biographies or photos.
I'd guess, that unless the Chinese have some fundamentally different programme planned for SZ-10 (for example a much longer two person mission) they will become the prime crew for that flight. It seems the interval will be only 6-8 months, so very little time to prepare a completely different team.
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Shenzhou 9's second and third burns has been completed at 04:45 and 09:17 UTC today (the first one was at 17:30 UTC yesterday). Two more burns will take place at 14:34 UTC and on the 24th orbit respectively to set up the catch up to TG-1.
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=204228&fromuid=19646)
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Still no complete backup crew named?
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Shenzhou 9's second and third burns has been completed at 04:45 and 09:17 UTC today (the first one was at 17:30 UTC yesterday). Two more burns will take place at 14:34 UTC and on the 24th orbit respectively to set up the catch up to TG-1.
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=204228&fromuid=19646)
Compared with Dragon (2400 N) or Soyuz (2700 N), Shenzhou has some larger main engines (4 x 2500 N), anyone knows why Shenzhou needs larger ones than other capsules?
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Do we have exact birthdate for Liu Wang or Liu Yang? I have 1969 Mar and 1978 Oct respectively.
Liu Yang exact birthdate is Oct 6th, 1978 according her school certificates from this photos: http://pic.news.sohu.com/group-353783.shtml#3 &
http://pic.news.sohu.com/group-353783.shtml#5 !
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Do we have exact birthdate for Liu Wang or Liu Yang? I have 1969 Mar and 1978 Oct respectively.
Liu Yang exact birthdate is Oct 6th, 1978 according her school certificates from this photos: http://pic.news.sohu.com/group-353783.shtml#3 &
http://pic.news.sohu.com/group-353783.shtml#5 !
great, thanks!
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Shenzhou 9's second and third burns has been completed at 04:45 and 09:17 UTC today (the first one was at 17:30 UTC yesterday). Two more burns will take place at 14:34 UTC and on the 24th orbit respectively to set up the catch up to TG-1.
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=964&pid=204228&fromuid=19646)
Compared with Dragon (2400 N) or Soyuz (2700 N), Shenzhou has some larger main engines (4 x 2500 N), anyone knows why Shenzhou needs larger ones than other capsules?
Where do the thrust figures of the Dragon and the Soyuz come from? I checked the Soyuz figures, and apparently its main engine on the TMA version has a maximum thrust of 6000 N.
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Where do the thrust figures of the Dragon and the Soyuz come from? I checked the Soyuz figures, and apparently its main engine on the TMA version has a maximum thrust of 6000 N.
Dragon: 6x Draco of 400N, Soyuz: found on a NASA specs sheet from progress. Looked on Wikipedia, but found no numbers.
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At this time I'm puzzle by the lack of information or any photos regarding the back-up crew. Your thoughts?
According to this link: http://news.sohu.com/s2012/shenzhou9/index.shtml
there is back-up crew, but not official photo exect one like
http://lk.astronautilus.pl/temp/pfa/sz9-1.jpg !
I have found at: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html interesting photos, but none of back-up crew :(
Please let us know if someone sees somewhere?
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I have found at: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html interesting photos, but none of back-up crew :(
On your link: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html the second photo looks like a photoshop fake... look at the two faces and the hairs, something of the two photos is manipulated.
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It's possible ;)
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Photo's of the crater the LES made here; http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2012-06/17/c_123294842_3.htm
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Photo's of the crater the LES made here; http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2012-06/17/c_123294842_3.htm
More pix of rocket debris (other location) here: http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-17/108946.shtml
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I have found at: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html interesting photos, but none of back-up crew :(
On your link: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html the second photo looks like a photoshop fake... look at the two faces and the hairs, something of the two photos is manipulated.
I spotted that too. For some reason, her head from the photo in uniform has been photoshopped onto the spacesuit picture? Very strange, as this seem to be her formal spacesuit portrait.
A nice selection of pictures from the flag and tree ceremony too, but as you say, still no images of the B/U crew - just that one rather grainy shot of all six?
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Still no complete backup crew named?
Hi Joachim, welcome to the forum!
I think we can be 100% sure of the Nie/Zhang/Wang crew. Although there has been no formal announcement, we are 100% certain of the identities of Nie and Wang, from earlier images. Zhang has also been identified in Chinese media and some personal info. was published by newspapers in his home town, so I think we can be 99% sure on him too.
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Hi All,
New here to these parts. I just read Rui Barbosa article on Shenzhou mission on the front page where it says that the orbital module has its own solar panels but seeing some of the pictures earlier in this thread, I can't see any solar panels on that part of the spaceship, only on the service module. Is this correct?
Cheers,
JT355
p.s. Congrats China!!!
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Hi All,
New here to these parts. I just read Rui Barbosa article on Shenzhou mission on the front page where it says that the orbital module has its own solar panels but seeing some of the pictures earlier in this thread, I can't see any solar panels on that part of the spaceship, only on the service module. Is this correct?
Cheers,
JT355
p.s. Congrats China!!!
You are right. SZ-9 has no solar panels on the orbital module.
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Do The Farmers get to keep the rocket parts that fall on them?
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Do The Farmers get to keep the rocket parts that fall on them?
I don't think so. Everything is collected by the military (some parts may still contain toxics on them).
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Has someone seen the official portraits of the astronauts in a hi res version?
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Has someone seen the official portraits of the astronauts in a hi res version?
I have some photos...
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Thank you very much.
What we now need is a lerge version of the patch.
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Another view of fairing debris (found close to Shenzhou-8's CZ-2F fairing debris in North Shaanxi province)
(source (http://roll.sohu.com/20120617/n345838125.shtml))
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Still no complete backup crew named?
Hi Joachim, welcome to the forum!
I think we can be 100% sure of the Nie/Zhang/Wang crew. Although there has been no formal announcement, we are 100% certain of the identities of Nie and Wang, from earlier images. Zhang has also been identified in Chinese media and some personal info. was published by newspapers in his home town, so I think we can be 99% sure on him too.
This site (halfway down) gives an overview of all six crewmembers (prime and back-up).
http://news.sohu.com/s2012/shenzhou9/index.shtml
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Photo's of the crater the LES made here; http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2012-06/17/c_123294842_3.htm
I am not sure, but I think this has not been posted here yet:
Here is a report about the LES on CNTV with some interesting footage of the assembly and some LES launch test. http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120614/109246.shtml (Footage starts at about 1:19)
(I have no idea, how the ejection seat test on a rocket sled shown around 1:32 relates to the LES.)
At the end of the report some figures are shown (3, 73, 1.5, 500). Could somebody who understands Chinese please translate the meaning?
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Another view of fairing debris (found close to Shenzhou-8's CZ-2F fairing debris in North Shaanxi province)
(source (http://roll.sohu.com/20120617/n345838125.shtml))
Google translation of that website says that the pics on that site show "Shenzhou VIII" fairing?
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Photo's of the crater the LES made here; http://news.xinhuanet.com/photo/2012-06/17/c_123294842_3.htm
I am not sure, but I think this has not been posted here yet:
Here is a report about the LES on CNTV with some interesting footage of the assembly and some LES launch test. http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120614/109246.shtml (Footage starts at about 1:19)
(I have no idea, how the ejection seat test on a rocket sled shown around 1:32 relates to the LES.)
At the end of the report some figures are shown (3, 73, 1.5, 500). Could somebody who understands Chinese please translate the meaning?
The LES motors fire for 3 seconds and provides 73 tonnes of thrust. The system can brings the spacecraft up to 1.5 kilometers vertically and 500 meters horizontally away from the malfunctioned rocket.
Another view of fairing debris (found close to Shenzhou-8's CZ-2F fairing debris in North Shaanxi province)
(source (http://roll.sohu.com/20120617/n345838125.shtml))
Google translation of that website says that the pics on that site show "Shenzhou VIII" fairing?
Yup the article is about the Shenzhou 9 fairing, but the photos are from the Shenzhou 8 launch.
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Great! Thanks a lot!
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Has someone seen the official portraits of the astronauts in a hi res version?
I have some photos...
Thanks for these photos. What is your source if I may ask?
Lots of pictures are posted in various Chinese news websites, but usually these come with annoying logos, and some can only be saved using the print screen option. It takes me quite some time to check all these sites.
Is there perhaps a site of the Chinese space program itself (like TsPK in the case of Soyuz missions)?
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Has someone seen the official portraits of the astronauts in a hi res version?
I have some photos...
Thanks for these photos. What is your source if I may ask?
Lots of pictures are posted in various Chinese news websites, but usually these come with annoying logos, and some can only be saved using the print screen option. It takes me quite some time to check all these sites.
Is there perhaps a site of the Chinese space program itself (like TsPK in the case of Soyuz missions)?
These are from a Xinhua news article: http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2012-06/15/c_123289243_2.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2012-06/15/c_123289243_2.htm)
As for a site of the Chinese manned space program itself.... there's the China Manned Space Engineering Office site (http://www.cmse.gov.cn/) (but it isn't very detailed :-[).
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Some pix of the crew having changed into their flight overalls
source: http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-17/108999.shtml
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I have found at: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html interesting photos, but none of back-up crew :(
On your link: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html the second photo looks like a photoshop fake... look at the two faces and the hairs, something of the two photos is manipulated.
I agree too -- there are identical stray hairs on her forehead, and eyeball highlights, and other shiny skin hotspots.
I'm going to pursue this but need to make sure I properly credit the origin, aside from nasaspaceflight.com's forum -- if you have a name you wish to get credit to, please email me at [email protected].
THANKS for bringing this to all of our attentions!
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I'm going to pursue this but need to make sure I properly credit the origin, aside from nasaspaceflight.com's forum -- if you have a name you wish to get credit to, please email me at [email protected].
No need to quote me ;-) I'm sure others have seen this also.
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On your link: http://bbs.qx818.com/thread-141564-1-1.html the second photo looks like a photoshop fake... look at the two faces and the hairs, something of the two photos is manipulated.
I spotted that too. For some reason, her head from the photo in uniform has been photoshopped onto the spacesuit picture? Very strange, as this seem to be her formal spacesuit portrait.
The same situation was in 2005 with below attached Shenzhou-VI taikonauts portraits...the same suit with their head!
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Here is a much nicer, and apparently genuine portrait style image of Major Liu Yang.
Whilst including a woman in this crew has certainly garnered a great deal of domestic and international publicity, I suspect that the eventual significance of her inclusion will be rather different.
She (and presumably Wang Yaping) have been put through an abridged training regime, which allowed them to undertake sufficient basic training and mission specific training, to be assigned to a Shenzhou flight in well under two years. (May 2010 to March 2012).
Presumably this has created a training template, which could allow genuine Mission Specialist (engineers, doctors etc) to participate in the SZ missions to TG-2 and TG-3 , even though they may not have been recruited yet.
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Here is another one of her, together with her husband, who also serves in the military.
Now, on this one her face, smile and hair seem to look like on the one above, posted by tonyq... One of them must be another photoshop job? Question is, which one? My guess is, this one with the husband is the original, and he has been deleted for the other one.
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Why the fascination with the female crew member?
We and the Russians have been flying women into space for decades.
She is there to do a job, not gawk at.
They are selected to fill a crew because they can do the job.
Besides this is a "Live Updates" thread, not a beauty contest.
BTW, congratulations to the Chinese for a successful launch and LEO insertion, and best wishes for completion of a successful mission.
Back on topic, please.
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Why the fascination with the female crew member?
We and the Russians have been flying women into space for decades.
She is there to do a job, not gawk at.
They are selected to fill a crew because they can do the job.
Besides this is a "Live Updates" thread, not a beauty contest.
BTW, congratulations to the Chinese for a successful launch and LEO insertion, and best wishes for completion of a successful mission.
Back on topic, please.
The Russians have only flow about three women in the past five decades. The first two were only for political stunts.
Here is another one of her, together with her husband, who also serves in the military.
Now, on this one her face, smile and hair seem to look like on the one above, posted by tonyq... One of them must be another photoshop job? Question is, which one? My guess is, this one with the husband is the original, and he has been deleted for the other one.
They're not the same image, look at her collar. I think the pictures were just taken very close to one another.
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The first two were only for political stunts
Who was the second?
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The first two were only for political stunts
Who was the second?
Svetlana Savitskaya - First woman to perform an EVA. Its been almost twenty years since Russia launched their last female cosmonaut (Yelena Kondakova).
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Svetlana Savitskaya - First woman to perform an EVA
You have forgotten that her spacewalk was in her second flight in 1984. Her first flight was in 1982 and it does not relate with any political stunts. But I agree about Valentina Tereshkova.
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Svetlana Savitskaya - First woman to perform an EVA
You have forgotten that her spacewalk was in her second flight in 1984. Her first flight was in 1982 and it does not relate with any political stunts. But I agree about Valentina Tereshkova.
Andrey - so you don' t think the timing of Savitskaya's first and second flights was related to the announcement of Sally Ride's upcoming flight and, for the second, Kathryn Sullivan's EVA? At the time it seemed to those of us in the West to be a clear propaganda response - no Russian women in space since 1963, US decides to fly a woman, suddenly a Russian woman flies.
This was not helped by the tone of the Soviet documentaries of the time emphasizing in a hilariously sexist way how Soviet technology had advanced to the point that women could now perform EVAs, and the lack of followup (no full integration of women into the cosmonaut corps) was a contrast to NASA, where Ride's mission had a propaganda component but later flights by Resnik, Lucid, etc. were just business as usual.
Kondakova of course is a slightly different story.
[Edit: I hate to find myself channelling JimO here :-):-) You know that in general I have lots of respect for the former USSR program. I'm just relating what was a strong personal impression of mine about those events as a young person at the time]
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Andrey - so you don't think the timing of Savitskaya's first and second flights was related to the announcement of Sally Ride's upcoming flight and, for the second, Kathryn Sullivan's EVA? At the time it seemed to those of us in the West to be a clear propaganda response - no Russian women in space since 1963, US decides to fly a woman, suddenly a Russian woman flies
It was an initiative of Valentin Glushko at the end of 1970 years to include women in Salyut crews. In my opinion, the first flight of Svetlana Savitskaya was not political stunt and the cancelled first flight of Irina Pronina too. It is simply coincidence with announcement of female flights on Space Shuttle. As for the second flight of Svetlana Savitskaya, yes, her spacewalk was political stunt and the cancelled third flight too.
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MODERATOR NOTE: Let's get this back on track here, guys. This thread is for LIVE UPDATES for the ongoing Shenzhou 9 mission - not for a discussion on politics of women in space.
Any further posts on this matter will be deleted back so live updates on Shenzhou 9 can proceed on track.
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What time is CCTV going to broadcast the Docking?
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MODERATOR NOTE: Let's get this back on track here, guys. This thread is for LIVE UPDATES for the ongoing Shenzhou 9 mission - not for a discussion on politics of women in space.
Any further posts on this matter will be deleted back so live updates on Shenzhou 9 can proceed on track.
Apologies, Chris, you are quite correct (but I thank Andrey for his interesting and convincing comment). Rapped knuckles appropriately smarting.
Back on topic:
Object 37820 (Tiangong 1) is in a 329 x 339 km orbit
Object 38462 (Shenzhou 9) maneuvered from 261 x 315 km to 315 x 326 km around 1440 UTC today according to the TLEs.
Object 38461 (second stage rocket) has decayed to 195 x 300 km so far (from 202 x 312 km initial)
Objects 38463 to 38465 have now been cataloged in 204 x 487 km orbits - note the ~170 km higher apogee, which is characteristic of the second stage separation motor covers ejected from the CZ-2 series rockets - there are usually 4 of them so we may expect another object to be found.
I also predict that Space-Track will swap 38461 and 38462 when they realize that 38461 is not the payload.
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Shenzhou 9 will take over active control of the "formation flight" while over the tracking station in Chile in just less than two hours from now (03:45 UTC). Today's docking profile should be the same one as the one tested by Shenzhou 8, which puts the docking about 140 minutes after that, or around 06:10 UTC.
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Thanks GP. I'll add a link to the opening post to class this as the start of docking coverage.
There will be an article for this after docking via Rui. Everyone get the coffee on!
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Shenzhou 9 will take over active control of the "formation flight" while over the tracking station in Chile in just less than two hours from now (03:45 UTC). Today's docking profile should be the same one as the one tested by Shenzhou 8, which puts the docking about 140 minutes after that, or around 06:10 UTC.
Not sure of time convertion, but docking - on preflight timelines - was scheduled for approximately 1500 local time Beijing.
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Great news. Looking forward to the docking coverage in this thread. Expect it to be just as good as for the launch.
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Screenshots from CCTV report on the mission
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[off topic] start a thread in 'space history', please
Substitute message: I'm presuming nobody has heard of any launch/insertion visual sightings from Kyushu and/or Okinawa?
How about any visuals anywhere in the world the last 24 hours or so?
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Shenzhou 9 will take over active control of the "formation flight" while over the tracking station in Chile in just less than two hours from now (03:45 UTC). Today's docking profile should be the same one as the one tested by Shenzhou 8, which puts the docking about 140 minutes after that, or around 06:10 UTC.
But how about a timeline for first entry into Tiangong?
Considering their standard prudence, will it even occur within 24 hours of docking?
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and after replay of the CCTV story, screenshot from the spacecraft
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They're not the same image, look at her collar. I think the pictures were just taken very close to one another.
I'm not so sure. Push the contrast to max on the no-hubbie view, and you may see what I did -- the black field below her right ear to her shoulder, inside her transparent helmet face, is not part of the suit structure, it's more of her husband's shirt that was mistakenly left in by the retoucher. It's not in the earlier photo of her in the spacesuit.
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(Don't know if this was posted here before, but it might be informative for the upcoming docking.)
Here is a CCTV report about the rendezvous and docking system with some interesting shots of the computer screen that is used for the docking, some simulator that is used for training as well as other hardware: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120614/109205.shtml
Anybody here who understands Chinese, who wants to give us a short summary of anything interesting being said in the comment or the interview? Is there any mention of what technology they use for approach (Laser, Radar, etc.)?
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So I make it two hours to docking on the schedule.
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(Don't know if this was posted here before, but it might be informative for the upcoming docking.)
Here is a CCTV report about the rendezvous and docking system with some interesting shots of the computer screen that is used for the docking, some simulator that is used for training as well as other hardware: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120614/109205.shtml
Anybody here who understands Chinese, who wants to give us a short summary of anything interesting being said in the comment or the interview? Is there any mention of what technology they use for approach (Laser, Radar, etc.)?
Hi long time lurker here.
They got laser, radar and camera onboard.
Information from last Shenzhou 8 mission (sorry, both in Chinese):
Mission design:
http://www.cmse.gov.cn/uploadfile/news/uploadfile/201110/20111030120144818.pdf
Laser system:
http://159.226.88.179:880/limesurvey/upload/surveys/52412/files/7.%E5%BA%94%E7%94%A8%E4%BA%8E%E5%A4%A9%E5%AE%AB%E4%B8%80%E5%8F%B7%E4%BA%A4%E6%B1%87%E5%AF%B9%E6%8E%A5%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E6%BF%80%E5%85%89%E9%9B%B7%E8%BE%BE%E5%90%88%E4%BD%9C%E7%9B%AE%E6%A0%87.pdf
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So I make it two hours to docking on the schedule.
That's correct.
As of 03:53 UTC Shenzhou 9 is 52 kilometers behind Tiangong 1, and has taken over active control of the approach. The 3 astronauts have returned to the descent module and has donned their in-flight pressure suits in preparation for docking.
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CTV confirmed burn
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live view from MCC, 5 km between Shenzhou 9 and Tiangong-1
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CCTV still running its normal news.
One for Rui... ;) (Apologies to all the Dutch on here).
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Shenzhou 9 will take over active control of the "formation flight" while over the tracking station in Chile in just less than two hours from now (03:45 UTC). Today's docking profile should be the same one as the one tested by Shenzhou 8, which puts the docking about 140 minutes after that, or around 06:10 UTC.
But how about a timeline for first entry into Tiangong?
Considering their standard prudence, will it even occur within 24 hours of docking?
Xinhua news reported that crew entry is scheduled at 09:22 UTC today. (http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2012-06-18/123824612091.shtml (http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2012-06-18/123824612091.shtml))
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CCTV still running its normal news.
One for Rui... ;) (Apologies to all the Dutch on here).
LOL
Ronaldo's double saved the day! Rui must be very excited ;D
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Yeah, Andre on the ISS won't be happy! Russia out too, another shock, so the Russian side of the ISS won't be happy either! (Keeping it on topic ;))
I'm guessing this "news hour" will end at the top of the hour and we'll get into the coverage. Manic sports presenter! ;D
EDIT: Nope, no CCTV coverage yet.
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The cntv.cn schedule says the program of Shenzhou 9 starts at 3:30. So, 10 more minutes.
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CCTV coverage has started: http://english.cntv.cn/live/ (http://english.cntv.cn/live/)
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Yep, here we go. Thanks Joey and welcome to the site's forum (posting)
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coverage starting
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about 1hr 30 minutes to docking
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the same panelists from launch
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about 1hr 30 minutes to docking
That's about an hour later than earlier posts indicated... is this official?
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recorded video showing crew
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news explaining Tiangong-1
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Shenzhou 8 docking was 1:19:30 from launch.
For Shenzhou 9, it'd be 06:07 UTC.
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Yep, here we go. Thanks Joey and welcome to the site's forum (posting)
Thanks for the welcome, Chris. I'm watching the Chinese version.
I watched both TG1 and SZ8 and their docking through this forum. I really like the atmosphere here. It's not just a project for any nation, but for all human kind. And we should cheer for every little step forward achieved by any country.
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view inside training mockups
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At 400m from CCTV reporter.
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cctv reviewing the Shenzhou 8 mission
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NASATV doesnt have these slick graphics
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SZ-9 now only 150 meters away.
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at 200m from CCTV reporter.
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NEws reports 30 minutes to docking
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Approaching the 30 m stationkeeping point.
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past 140 meter point per CCTV
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looks like sunset
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lots of station keeping
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Live Broadcast:
http://big5.cntv.cn/gate/big5/news.cntv.cn/special/shenjiu/
Better to use IE browser
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view from Shenzhou of tiangong-1 from 30 meters
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Anyone able to capture a good res image of the below, please?
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per CCTV expert, vehicles communicating
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looks like the crew is recording the docking from their perspective
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moving in to dock
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Final approach!
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Wow, that's a reasonably fast docking velocity!
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contact capture!
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Anyone able to capture a good res image of the below, please?
I can get you one from Sky satellite in a few moments.
EDIT:
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waiting for alignment to settle, then will retract
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Anyone able to capture a good res image of the below, please?
I can get you one from Sky satellite in a few moments.
Cheers Aaron :)
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Ring retracted!
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Anyone able to capture a good res image of the below, please?
watch from CNTV , it's good quality (640 X 480)
http://big5.cntv.cn/gate/big5/news.cntv.cn/special/shenjiu/
(IE browser)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQaHCkYohqw&feature=youtu.be
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tiangong firing engines to push the two craft together according to CCTV space expert
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Burst of applause in Mission Control.
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Open hatch of the entry module.
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Tremendous achievement!! :)
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Gong xi nimen! :D
Congratulations to China. A fantastic achievement.
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View from TG-1:
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Coming up.
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Just waiting for an ingress time now.
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Rui's article for docking:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/chinas-shenzhou-9-successfully-docks-with-tiangong-1/
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I think I heard the lady reporter at BACC mention a '1700 entry time', which would be 0900 UTC...
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CCTV went off for 2 hours, So back about 09:00 UTC.
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NEws reports 30 minutes to docking
Please, can anyone confirm this? :
Watching the picture of the SZ9 crew inside de DM, it seems to me that Liu Wang is seated for the docking in the CDR (centre) seat.
This remember me the Apollo CSM transition to dock with the LM :)
PS
Watching that some people like football I have started a football thread on General discussion. Do you like football?
(EDIT: I've love a football thread, especially with England's game coming up, but it's off topic for this site :( - Chris).
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the relative speed of final approach seems quite fast when compared with ATV docking to ISS
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OABvq-m8Wdg
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Some rather interesting CGI going on CCTV now.
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And a CGI view of TG-1 now
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Svetlana Savitskaya - First woman to perform an EVA
You have forgotten that her spacewalk was in her second flight in 1984. Her first flight was in 1982 and it does not relate with any political stunts. But I agree about Valentina Tereshkova.
Andrey - so you don' t think the timing of Savitskaya's first and second flights was related to the announcement of Sally Ride's upcoming flight and, for the second, Kathryn Sullivan's EVA? At the time it seemed to those of us in the West to be a clear propaganda response - no Russian women in space since 1963, US decides to fly a woman, suddenly a Russian woman flies.
This was not helped by the tone of the Soviet documentaries of the time emphasizing in a hilariously sexist way how Soviet technology had advanced to the point that women could now perform EVAs, and the lack of followup (no full integration of women into the cosmonaut corps) was a contrast to NASA, where Ride's mission had a propaganda component but later flights by Resnik, Lucid, etc. were just business as usual.
Kondakova of course is a slightly different story.
[Edit: I hate to find myself channelling JimO here :-):-) You know that in general I have lots of respect for the former USSR program. I'm just relating what was a strong personal impression of mine about those events as a young person at the time]
Speaking of Savitskaya (now a Russian Duma member), CCTV is playing an interview with her right now!
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Interesting photos from SZ-9 landing and evacuation drill (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/202936/7846663.html).
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This guy is awesome. He's like China's Jim Oberg!
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This guy is awesome. He's like China's Jim Oberg!
Very informative, and his English is excellent with technical & science terms and explanations.
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This guy is awesome. He's like China's Jim Oberg!
He's great! And I really like this guys tie.
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Confirmation about seat change for automatic docking to be prepared if something goes wrong.
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He's a very good anchor.
Latest is they are still checking the TG-1 air samples.
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CCTV reporter says first astronaut should enter in 'a few minutes' with the second in 30 minutes.
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I am having ratty VLC connection; any alternatives currently available?
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NEws reports 30 minutes to docking
Please, can anyone confirm this? :
Watching the picture of the SZ9 crew inside de DM, it seems to me that Liu Wang is seated for the docking in the CDR (centre) seat.
This remember me the Apollo CSM transition to dock with the LM :)
PS
Watching that some people like football I have started a football thread on General discussion. Do you like football?
(EDIT: I've love a football thread, especially with England's game coming up, but it's off topic for this site :( - Chris).
That's correct. The crew actually were assigned positions for the manual docking. Liu Wang is assigned in position 01, and will be the pilot in control of the docking. CDR Jing Haipeng is assigned to position 02, assisting Liu in the docking. Liu Yang is assigned to position 03, in which her duties are monitoring equipment and playing with the video camcorder. ;)
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I am having ratty VLC connection; any alternatives currently available?
This one has been stable for me:
mms://219.90.61.6/cctv9-tw
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Live views now
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Live view inside TG-1
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Into the internal channel.
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Hatch is open
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They've got a key to open the hatch!
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Heh!
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Already rather busy!
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How large it is! Historic moment, first time since MIR we have two orbiting space stations manned.
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Checking out the com systems now. And now the computer is on!
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The current CAPCOM:
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Commentary: Video is transmitted over chinas own data relay satellite network.
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Happy about something! Commentators not sure what the milestone was,
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It seems to me they will hate to rethink a lot of their hand- and foot-restraints; these loops on flexible surfaces don't seem very stable...
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All three inside now!
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Photo op!
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Control room going wild at the photo op!
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I thought they had previously said someone was going to remain in SZ-9 at all times?
Didn't take long to abandon that rule!
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I though that had previously said someone was going to remain in SZ-9 at all times?
Didn't take long to abandon that rule!
CCTV also said the 2nd astronaut would not enter until 30 minutes after the first if I heard correctly, which didn't occur.
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Right, that'll do it for me. Thanks to Aaron and Ron earlier, and everyone who joined in.
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Fantastic coverage, both from CCTV and everyone who chipped in to this thread. Thanks to everyone.
It's hard not to be mightily impressed by the quality and openness of the Chinese coverage and the way they have made something which is incredibly difficult, and which they are doing for the first time, look so routine. Congratulations to them on a brilliant show, so far.
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They mentioned interesting tech information - TG-1 and SH-9 use diffrent volt supply. TG-1 uses 100 volt DC if I heard correctly. I'm asking for confirmation of that :) Do we have "Mr. Tiangong" on board? :D
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CCTV still running its normal news.
One for Rui... ;) (Apologies to all the Dutch on here).
Hey, no offense. I actually made a little money by betting the Dutch nationaal soccer team would not win the match against Portugal. :)
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Is it the second time ever that two space stations are simultaneously manned in orbit? (after Mir EO-28 / Soyuz TM-30 and STS-101 on ISS in May 2000)
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Skylab Salyut ? Salyut 6/7 ? Salyut 7/Mir ?
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Talks about dozens of experiments in the next days. Comparing it to ISS. Not shy to point that Tiangong-1 is very small compared to ISS.
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Skylab Salyut ? Salyut 6/7 ? Salyut 7/Mir ?
During the Skylab flights the Soviets lost three space stations to launch failures and on-orbit lost of control (DOS-2/DOS-3(Kosmos-557)/Salyut-2), so they only made two flights during May 1973 - February 1974, of which the flight of Soyuz 13 coincides with the stay of Skylab 4.
The last crew on Salyut 6 (Kovalyonok/Savinykh) left on May 26, 1981, and Salyut 7 wasn't launched until April 1982.
The Soyuz T-15 crew (Kizim/Solovyov) went back and forth between Salyut 7 and Mir during their flight in 1986, but the two were never manned simultaneously.
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Congrat! Now we have two orbital space stations manned in LEO.
Just a few questions
1. It seems that they don't need glove and mask when entering TG-1, which ISS astronauts are required to put on before entering any new visiting spacecrafts.
2. The spacelab seems a little bit empty, a bit too neat and tidy, without all the racks and etc, only thing that stand out inside is the computer console.
3. The mission is surprisingly transparent to the outside world, given the inherent secretive nature of China's space program. With live videos inside the TG-1 and the SZ-9 showing its interior in HQ, great details can be seen for everyone who have internet connection. I remember last year some commentators suggest TG-1 maybe a military space station, now I think the suggestion probably becomes a myth as no military station will have its interior images and videos broadcast to the world in real time.
anyway, good job China. 2012 is really a great year for spaceflight: first commercial flight to ISS, first Chinese manned docking, and curiosity landing on Mars
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This concludes the special coverage of today.
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CCTV coverage ending, They did an immense job! The length and detail of coverage was amazing.
I'd like to see a US Network do similar in todays world. ;D
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That's correct. The crew actually were assigned positions for the manual docking. Liu Wang is assigned in position 01, and will be the pilot in control of the docking. CDR Jing Haipeng is assigned to position 02, assisting Liu in the docking. Liu Yang is assigned to position 03, in which her duties are monitoring equipment and playing with the video camcorder. ;)
Thanks Galactic Penguin SST :)
The current CAPCOM:
Remember that young face. Maybe he's an Group 2 astronaut (if Chinese do the same than the US)
Two orbital space stations manned in LEO!
Congrats to China and to all of us interested in manned spaceflight !
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1. It seems that they don't need glove and mask when entering TG-1, which ISS astronauts are required to put on before entering any new visiting spacecrafts.
As TG-1 is NOT the visiting spacecraft, it should be no real problem as any particles from start and visit of SZ-8 should be out of the floating air.
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Checking out the com systems now. And now the computer is on!
I wonder what operating system they have on those computers...
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Congrat! Now we have two orbital space stations manned in LEO.
Just a few questions
1. It seems that they don't need glove and mask when entering TG-1, which ISS astronauts are required to put on before entering any new visiting spacecrafts.
2. The spacelab seems a little bit empty, a bit too neat and tidy, without all the racks and etc, only thing that stand out inside is the computer console.
3. The mission is surprisingly transparent to the outside world, given the inherent secretive nature of China's space program. With live videos inside the TG-1 and the SZ-9 showing its interior in HQ, great details can be seen for everyone who have internet connection. I remember last year some commentators suggest TG-1 maybe a military space station, now I think the suggestion probably becomes a myth as no military station will have its interior images and videos broadcast to the world in real time.
anyway, good job China. 2012 is really a great year for spaceflight: first commercial flight to ISS, first Chinese manned docking, and curiosity landing on Mars
I believe that there are indeed reconnaissance payloads on TG-1 (an infrared telescope and an optical telescope), but I always believe it's more of a "hitchhiking" payload (as with the small classified payloads on the Shuttle in the 80's / 90's or the payloads on the orbital modules of previous Shenzhou flights), plus the two probably are not used when TG-1 is manned (and they don't need crew interaction). Thus calling it a military station is still way over the top.
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1. It seems that they don't need glove and mask when entering TG-1, which ISS astronauts are required to put on before entering any new visiting spacecrafts.
As TG-1 is NOT the visiting spacecraft, it should be no real problem as any particles from start and visit of SZ-8 should be out of the floating air.
It is possibly checked before entering. According to Chinese reports, Tiangong 1 has around 7000 parameters being monitored. And around 900 were checked daily by the ground control.
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Skylab Salyut ? Salyut 6/7 ? Salyut 7/Mir ?
During the Skylab flights the Soviets lost three space stations to launch failures and on-orbit lost of control (DOS-2/DOS-3(Kosmos-557)/Salyut-2), so they only made two flights during May 1973 - February 1974, of which the flight of Soyuz 13 coincides with the stay of Skylab 4.
The last crew on Salyut 6 (Kovalyonok/Savinykh) left on May 26, 1981, and Salyut 7 wasn't launched until April 1982.
The Soyuz T-15 crew (Kizim/Solovyov) went back and forth between Salyut 7 and Mir during their flight in 1986, but the two were never manned simultaneously.
Oops! I missed out STS-88/Mir EO-26 and STS-96/Mir EO-27 in December 1998 and May 1999!
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1. It seems that they don't need glove and mask when entering TG-1, which ISS astronauts are required to put on before entering any new visiting spacecrafts.
As TG-1 is NOT the visiting spacecraft, it should be no real problem as any particles from start and visit of SZ-8 should be out of the floating air.
Did SZ-8 even open its hatch? I wouldn't have thought it was possible with a robot vehicle unless they contrapted a remote door system for both SZ and TG.
By the way: Congratulations to the Chinese space agency and its personnel on the first crewed flight to Tiangong-1; I wonder how long before we see a version of this vehicle with a propulsion module at the back heading off to LLO?
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...
3. The mission is surprisingly transparent to the outside world, given the inherent secretive nature of China's space program. With live videos inside the TG-1 and the SZ-9 showing its interior in HQ, great details can be seen for everyone who have internet connection. I remember last year some commentators suggest TG-1 maybe a military space station, now I think the suggestion probably becomes a myth as no military station will have its interior images and videos broadcast to the world in real time.
...
Exactly! For those who always look at China and the Chinese with their colored glasses and suspect there are military connections behind every Chinese space mission, should slap themselves hardly!! Shame on them!!
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looks like the crew is recording the docking from their perspective
Hey everyone, thanks for coverage! Missed it completely this morning.
A question: As seen in one of the pictures, crew is wearing their sokol suits, but they haven't got their visors closed and aren't wearing gloves. So, what's the point of wearing a spacesuit if it doesn't protect you from a vacuum?
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Rui's article for docking:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/chinas-shenzhou-9-successfully-docks-with-tiangong-1/
Thanks Rui! Lots of interesting stuff about Tiangong 2 and 3 that I didn't know until I checked out the China threads. The Chinese sure have been hiding their light under a bushel.
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NEws reports 30 minutes to docking
(EDIT: I've love a football thread, especially with England's game coming up, but it's off topic for this site :( - Chris).
Well, not a sports fan here, but I can see the argument for discussing flying objects on ballistic trajectories. Perhaps in addition to the suborbital thread (which I would prefer to focus on exoatmospheric flights) we add an endoatmospheric thread? ;-)
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The very rapid approach phase is quite striking - only a few minutes to go from 150m or so to the brief 30m stationkeeping and then in for capture. Suggests a bit more solid construction than US vehicles?
Love the key in the hatch - obviously to keep US astronauts from coming
to visit uninvited ;-)
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Fantastic acheivement for China, congrats!
And thanks to all for that overnight coverage.
(I'm still smarting from the 24hrs LeMans all-nighter!)
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The very rapid approach phase is quite striking - only a few minutes to go from 150m or so to the brief 30m stationkeeping and then in for capture. Suggests a bit more solid construction than US vehicles?
Love the key in the hatch - obviously to keep US astronauts from coming
to visit uninvited ;-)
I believe the final approach relative speed is in the order of 0.2 m/s. The APAS system requires a larger impact force in order for the capturing process to work properly. Shuttle dockings are slower because both it and Mir/ISS are of very large mass, while in this case both are 8 tonnes class spacecrafts.
How fast did Soyuz TM-16 dock?
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BTW as advised by Philip Clark, if we only count resident crews on space stations (so discounting short flights with the Shuttle crews and short Soyuz flights), then today is a big moment in human spaceflight history, because today marks the first time two space outposts are in active operation simultaneously! This I think should be celebrated as a milestone of the development of human spaceflight, as flights to the final frontier (or at least the part close to home ;)) becomes more common.
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YT video of the hatch opening/enter for those who missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvwKB2jblwk&list=UUdF5d0UwSJJunRcRVzP1uDg&index=1&feature=plcp
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If I look at the screenshots with the astronauts inside TG-1, I have my questions if the stated 15m3 are not to less for the pressurized volume. It looks like more than 30m3 for me. Any references about this?
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If I look at the screenshots with the astronauts inside TG-1, I have my questions if the stated 15m3 are not to less for the pressurized volume. It looks like more than 30m3 for me. Any references about this?
I'll have to dig into the Xinhua archives, but I remember that the 15m3 figure refers to the volume that astronauts can freely move around. TG-1's pressurized volume is actually at 40m3 (compared with 48m3 for the cargo compartment of the ATV).
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Is there information available concerning what type CO2 removal, and Oxygen replentishment systems are used?
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Is there information available concerning what type CO2 removal, and Oxygen replentishment systems are used?
Non-regenerating ones. In the talks on CCTV they talked about TG-2 which should include regenerating ones like on the ISS, but they not decided yet, which system they want to use, it's still in development they told.
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Congrats China!
Check out the deck of TG-1 in the ingress video - the first space trampoline? :D
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looks like the crew is recording the docking from their perspective
Hey everyone, thanks for coverage! Missed it completely this morning.
A question: As seen in one of the pictures, crew is wearing their sokol suits, but they haven't got their visors closed and aren't wearing gloves. So, what's the point of wearing a spacesuit if it doesn't protect you from a vacuum?
The suits are usually only worn during launch and re-entry because those are the most violent portions of the flight.
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Yes but why wear them at all with open visors and no gloves? Didn't they take off the suits after launch, and then put them back on for docking?
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looks like the crew is recording the docking from their perspective
Hey everyone, thanks for coverage! Missed it completely this morning.
A question: As seen in one of the pictures, crew is wearing their sokol suits, but they haven't got their visors closed and aren't wearing gloves. So, what's the point of wearing a spacesuit if it doesn't protect you from a vacuum?
The suits are usually only worn during launch and re-entry because those are the most violent portions of the flight.
Also, the visors can be closed and sealed rapidly; no point risking getting out of the suits entirely until the post-launch checks are complete and the vehicle's integrity is relatively sure.
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Very cool! Congratulations to China. :)
One question, though - While TG-1 is clearly customized to act as a mini-station, does it not overall look more like a large Progress craft? - I.e. these types of spacecraft will act as cargo resupply ships to future larger space stations? This would mean that TG-1 is similar in size and capability to ATV.
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This guy is awesome. He's like China's Jim Oberg!
I didn't know JimO had a clone :o ;D
Anyway fantastic coverage by the NSF team as usual, was glad you guys got this so I was able to read about it later, as I could not follow it live.
Congratulations to china on their first Space Station, here's to hoping it proves successful in the long term.
And then there were two space stations in orbit around our earth......really starting to feel 2001ish in here 8)
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3. The mission is surprisingly transparent to the outside world, given the inherent secretive nature of China's space program. With live videos inside the TG-1 and the SZ-9 showing its interior in HQ, great details can be seen for everyone who have internet connection. I remember last year some commentators suggest TG-1 maybe a military space station, now I think the suggestion probably becomes a myth as no military station will have its interior images and videos broadcast to the world in real time.
Exactly! For those who always look at China and the Chinese with their colored glasses and suspect there are military connections behind every Chinese space mission, should slap themselves hardly!! Shame on them!!
Noty true, the interior photos are not proof. There still can be military objective and hardware onboard
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3. The mission is surprisingly transparent to the outside world, given the inherent secretive nature of China's space program. With live videos inside the TG-1 and the SZ-9 showing its interior in HQ, great details can be seen for everyone who have internet connection. I remember last year some commentators suggest TG-1 maybe a military space station, now I think the suggestion probably becomes a myth as no military station will have its interior images and videos broadcast to the world in real time.
Exactly! For those who always look at China and the Chinese with their colored glasses and suspect there are military connections behind every Chinese space mission, should slap themselves hardly!! Shame on them!!
Noty true, the interior photos are not proof. There still can be military objective and hardware onboard
Before other members here wrote this post off as "inflammatory", let me explain that there are many cases in which some public information is released, but which the objectives of the flight could still be military. Example: the 10 military Space Shuttle flights.
I personally don't think that TG-1 has a major military mission, but the interior photos isn't actual proof.
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Have there been any clear, unobstructed views of the "back wall" of the station, where the supposed telescopes would be installed? I think, so far we have only seen the entry hatch and the sidewalls. (But I might have missed the looks at the back wall since I had to work and could not follow the whole coverage.)
EDIT: Did they really have to use a key to open the station's hatch? Is there really a lock, like you would find at an entry door to a house? Why that? Paranoia? Or is this "key" more like a simple tool to unlatch the hatch?
Did any of the American or Russian space stations ever have a lock that had to be opened with a key?
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I'm nut sure what the point of these 'military' telescopes on TG-1 would be.
This is just such an ass-backwards idea from the 60's - manned orbiting ground observation for military purposes has not made any sense since... ever. That's why there are regular spy-sats out there - and China has plenty of those.
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I'm nut sure what the point of these 'military' telescopes on TG-1 would be.
This is just such an ass-backwards idea from the 60's - manned orbiting ground observation for military purposes has not made any sense since... ever. That's why there are regular spy-sats out there - and China has plenty of those.
*shrug* It's hard to say what their purpose is if we don't know anything about them. ;)
It is pretty unlikely that this is primarily a military platform. This is clearly a civilian platform that might have ancillary military/classified packages.
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It is pretty unlikely that this is primarily a military platform. This is clearly a civilian platform that might have ancillary military/classified packages.
As every picture can be used for military use also. And so what? The chinese can do on their station what they want to do.
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I'm nut sure what the point of these 'military' telescopes on TG-1 would be.
This is just such an ass-backwards idea from the 60's - manned orbiting ground observation for military purposes has not made any sense since... ever. That's why there are regular spy-sats out there - and China has plenty of those.
Military and industrial spying are one in the same from my experiences with China.
subject change: From the outside desk model the station has a "hubble" look.
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It is pretty unlikely that this is primarily a military platform. This is clearly a civilian platform that might have ancillary military/classified packages.
As every picture can be used for military use also. And so what? The chinese can do on their station what they want to do.
Did I ever say otherwise?
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It is pretty unlikely that this is primarily a military platform. This is clearly a civilian platform that might have ancillary military/classified packages.
As every picture can be used for military use also. And so what? The chinese can do on their station what they want to do.
Did I ever say otherwise?
No, but I don't understand why we should discuss about this. It's a no topic.
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It's looks like a lot of the inside is hidden "behind the curtains", at one point in the video he briefly opens one curtain, then refastens it. It least it looks that way, but I could be way off.
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3. The mission is surprisingly transparent to the outside world, given the inherent secretive nature of China's space program. With live videos inside the TG-1 and the SZ-9 showing its interior in HQ, great details can be seen for everyone who have internet connection. I remember last year some commentators suggest TG-1 maybe a military space station, now I think the suggestion probably becomes a myth as no military station will have its interior images and videos broadcast to the world in real time.
Exactly! For those who always look at China and the Chinese with their colored glasses and suspect there are military connections behind every Chinese space mission, should slap themselves hardly!! Shame on them!!
Noty true, the interior photos are not proof. There still can be military objective and hardware onboard
Before other members here wrote this post off as "inflammatory", let me explain that there are many cases in which some public information is released, but which the objectives of the flight could still be military. Example: the 10 military Space Shuttle flights.
I personally don't think that TG-1 has a major military mission, but the interior photos isn't actual proof.
Exactly. There is a thing called a "Potemkin Village" which is little more than 'window dressing' for public/civilian consumption.
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Have there been any clear, unobstructed views of the "back wall" of the station, where the supposed telescopes would be installed? I think, so far we have only seen the entry hatch and the sidewalls. (But I might have missed the looks at the back wall since I had to work and could not follow the whole coverage.)
EDIT: Did they really have to use a key to open the station's hatch? Is there really a lock, like you would find at an entry door to a house? Why that? Paranoia? Or is this "key" more like a simple tool to unlatch the hatch?
Did any of the American or Russian space stations ever have a lock that had to be opened with a key?
You mean like this? (see photos below)
As for the key... I prefer the simpler explanation (a simple tool to unlatch the hatch)
I'm nut sure what the point of these 'military' telescopes on TG-1 would be.
This is just such an ass-backwards idea from the 60's - manned orbiting ground observation for military purposes has not made any sense since... ever. That's why there are regular spy-sats out there - and China has plenty of those.
*shrug* It's hard to say what their purpose is if we don't know anything about them. ;)
It is pretty unlikely that this is primarily a military platform. This is clearly a civilian platform that might have ancillary military/classified packages.
I understand that it's a cheap way to get new sensors that needed to be tested to fly in orbit before putting them on operational spysats. It might have started out when the Chinese developed an "improved" Shenzhou orbital module, and provide spaces for hitchhiking payloads. When Shenzhou's role was transformed into a space ferry, the prototype space lab/cargo supply craft was used for this purpose. It's no different than military payloads flying with the Shuttle (see Teal Ruby, STS-39 etc.).
GPS
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The very rapid approach phase is quite striking - only a few minutes to go from 150m or so to the brief 30m stationkeeping and then in for capture. Suggests a bit more solid construction than US vehicles?
Love the key in the hatch - obviously to keep US astronauts from coming
to visit uninvited ;-)
I believe the final approach relative speed is in the order of 0.2 m/s. The APAS system requires a larger impact force in order for the capturing process to work properly. Shuttle dockings are slower because both it and Mir/ISS are of very large mass, while in this case both are 8 tonnes class spacecrafts.
Right, has nothing to do with "solid construction" or not.
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It is pretty unlikely that this is primarily a military platform. This is clearly a civilian platform that might have ancillary military/classified packages.
As every picture can be used for military use also. And so what? The chinese can do on their station what they want to do.
Did I ever say otherwise?
No, but I don't understand why we should discuss about this. It's a no topic.
*shrug* If 8900 and Beidou can assert the station is non-military, then others have the right to respond. If this is a "no topic", then it should be trimmed back to 8900's initial assertion; otherwise it should be allowed to continue in its entirety.
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*shrug* If 8900 and Beidou can assert the station is non-military, then others have the right to respond. If this is a "no topic", then it should be trimmed back to 8900's initial assertion; otherwise it should be allowed to continue in its entirety.
Though preferably in another thread on that topic, not this Live update thread.
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*shrug* If 8900 and Beidou can assert the station is non-military, then others have the right to respond. If this is a "no topic", then it should be trimmed back to 8900's initial assertion; otherwise it should be allowed to continue in its entirety.
Though preferably in another thread on that topic, not this Live update thread.
Point conceded.
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The very rapid approach phase is quite striking - only a few minutes to go from 150m or so to the brief 30m stationkeeping and then in for capture. Suggests a bit more solid construction than US vehicles?
Love the key in the hatch - obviously to keep US astronauts from coming
to visit uninvited ;-)
I believe the final approach relative speed is in the order of 0.2 m/s. The APAS system requires a larger impact force in order for the capturing process to work properly. Shuttle dockings are slower because both it and Mir/ISS are of very large mass, while in this case both are 8 tonnes class spacecrafts.
Higher approach speeds do stress the pressure vessel more, however as TG1 is only going to be operated for a comparatively shorter period that should not be that big of a problem.
However the above does demonstrate why NASA is going to replace the APAS system with NDS for commercial crew. (Just short comment, back to Shenzhou 9)
The cloth handles though dont look that stable for moving around the inside of the module, I guess it is fine for short stays in a "prototype" but hopefully in the future the handrails will be the solid type seen in ISS.
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It's looks like a lot of the inside is hidden "behind the curtains", at one point in the video he briefly opens one curtain, then refastens it. It least it looks that way, but I could be way off.
in the training module copy they have on earth, its shown that they have enough room under the rug to hide a treadmill and other exercise equipment as well as cargo rack to hold their experiment.
this would match the rumour that TG1 was designed to serve as automated cargo ship like the ESA's ATV to future space station.
;D
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It's looks like a lot of the inside is hidden "behind the curtains", at one point in the video he briefly opens one curtain, then refastens it. It least it looks that way, but I could be way off.
in the training module copy they have on earth, its shown that they have enough room under the rug to hide a treadmill and other exercise equipment as well as cargo rack to hold their experiment.
this would match the rumour that TG1 was designed to serve as automated cargo ship like the ESA's ATV to future space station.
;D
Yeah, calling TG-1 a full-fledge space station is a little stretch, IMHO. It's more like a cargo ship like ATV, since there's only one docking port and it has such a small volume (which means it can't be resupplied while manned like many other space stations), or maybe "proto-space station" like the earlier Salyut space stations (later Salyuts and the Skylab and MIR and ISS all had multiple docking ports, so at least theoretically they could be resupplied while remaining occupied). Not that that's any less of an accomplishment! It's quite helpful for a much larger space station in the future, and I hope China gets there (I know they have plans).
Arguably, ATV could also be considered a space station if it had an APAS or NDS port on it.
It's good China is starting out with the APAS-inspired docking port, since that makes the later inevitable cooperation between China and the US, Russia, Europe, Japan, and others easier.
Of course, spacecraft like TKS blur the lines even more between space station and cargo spacecraft... plus adding in the capability to be launched manned!
Congratulations, again, China, on a successful mission thus far. :)
Now that they have mastered in-space rendezvous and docking, they can go to the Moon (if not its surface) if they decide to do so.
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Congrats China!
Check out the deck of TG-1 in the ingress video - the first space trampoline? :D
Stretch-fabric covers over the equipment located in the 'floor'.
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Stretch-fabric covers over the equipment located in the 'floor'.
Yes, I know that, I was only joking. ;)
As Ron said, the hand/footholds on those covers don't look very easy to use - at least not as easy as the solid ones on ISS.
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Noty true, the interior photos are not proof. There still can be military objective and hardware onboard
Before other members here wrote this post off as "inflammatory", let me explain that there are many cases in which some public information is released, but which the objectives of the flight could still be military. Example: the 10 military Space Shuttle flights.
I personally don't think that TG-1 has a major military mission, but the interior photos isn't actual proof.
Well, I would say in the other way around: if there is no concrete proof that it has link to a military mission, then we shouldn't say that.
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I guess this is the 'key' to open the Tiangong hatch: http://scitech.people.com.cn/GB/25509/55912/239673/244895/18221392.html
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I guess this is the 'key' to open the Tiangong hatch: http://scitech.people.com.cn/GB/25509/55912/239673/244895/18221392.html
A similar Russian device is used on both the probe & drogue and APAS (including PMA) hatches on ISS.
It's not really a "key" per se, just something which is rotated in order to undo the latches holding the hatch closed. It is basically a removable equivalent of the latch/unlatch handle on the CBM and Shuttle ODS hatches - which on those hatches is part of the hatch structure itself.
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As always thanks to ALL on NSF for complete coverage.
On the issue of the key(s)there are two Tintanium keys for a manned Soyuz launch.
My source for this is unfortunately an episode of pawn stars on the Bio channel.
The curator of a small space museum tried to sell both keys believing they were the launch keys for an ICBM from the cold war era,an expert on these matters was called in and confirmed that they were used in the launching of a Soyuz.
Since so much of Shenzhou is based on the Russian/Soviet model it makes sense.
The curator was offered $2000 but did not sell.
Like everyone else here I would also like to add my congratulations to China.
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I believe the final approach relative speed is in the order of 0.2 m/s. The APAS system requires a larger impact force in order for the capturing process to work properly.
Is this actually true?
If there a source for this assertion?
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I to would also like to add my congratulations to China. Not an easy thing to do the first time, or any time. I got in late but was able to play catch-up via the great coverage here, as always thanks to all involved.
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Yeah, calling TG-1 a full-fledge space station is a little stretch, IMHO. It's more like a cargo ship like ATV, since there's only one docking port and it has such a small volume (which means it can't be resupplied while manned like many other space stations), or maybe "proto-space station" like the earlier Salyut space stations (later Salyuts and the Skylab and MIR and ISS all had multiple docking ports, so at least theoretically they could be resupplied while remaining occupied).
Well, now you're proposing a definition of a space station, one that happens to fit your preconceptions. I think calling it a cargo ship is a bit mean, but I would be ok with calling TG-1 and early DOS/Almaz 'spacelabs' as a category of 'dwarf space station'. (Soyuz-4/Soyuz-5 was also sometimes claimed as a 'space station' by the USSR)
Your suggestion as I understand it is for a fully-adult space station to require (a) accommodation for at least two visiting vehicles and (b) a minimum (but unspecified by you) internal pressurized volume? I can see the argument for (a) but I don't see a particular place to draw the line in (b) so I'm not convinced. I propose to call TG_1 a space station, albeit a small one.
(to preempt the moderator, further generic discussion of the space station boundary should be on some other thread but I'm not sure where...)
By the way, the official CMSE report on the docking gives 2:07pm Bei.Time as the docking time (vs 2:08pm reported elsewhere)
http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1206 :
June 18, CMSE News] The first manned space docking of China succeeded Monday afternoon with the coupling of the Shenzhou 9 spacecraft and Tiangong-1 lab module.
The procedure began with the Shenzhou 9, with three astronauts aboard, moving to a location 52 km away from the Tiangong-1 at noon Monday. The spacecraft then slowly drifted toward the Tiangong-1 before making contact with the module at 2:07 p.m.
The docking was completed in less than eight minutes.
China's first successful unmanned space docking was completed last year with the docking of the Shenzhou 8 spacecraft and the Tiangong-1.
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Yeah, calling TG-1 a full-fledge space station is a little stretch, IMHO. It's more like a cargo ship like ATV, since there's only one docking port and it has such a small volume (which means it can't be resupplied while manned like many other space stations), or maybe "proto-space station" like the earlier Salyut space stations (later Salyuts and the Skylab and MIR and ISS all had multiple docking ports, so at least theoretically they could be resupplied while remaining occupied).
Well, now you're proposing a definition of a space station, one that happens to fit your preconceptions. I think calling it a cargo ship is a bit mean, but I would be ok with calling TG-1 and early DOS/Almaz 'spacelabs' as a category of 'dwarf space station'. (Soyuz-4/Soyuz-5 was also sometimes claimed as a 'space station' by the USSR)
Your suggestion as I understand it is for a fully-adult space station to require (a) accommodation for at least two visiting vehicles and (b) a minimum (but unspecified by you) internal pressurized volume? I can see the argument for (a) but I don't see a particular place to draw the line in (b) so I'm not convinced. I propose to call TG_1 a space station, albeit a small one.
(to preempt the moderator, further generic discussion of the space station boundary should be on some other thread but I'm not sure where...)
By the way, the official CMSE report on the docking gives 2:07pm Bei.Time as the docking time (vs 2:08pm reported elsewhere)
http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1206 :
June 18, CMSE News] The first manned space docking of China succeeded Monday afternoon with the coupling of the Shenzhou 9 spacecraft and Tiangong-1 lab module.
The procedure began with the Shenzhou 9, with three astronauts aboard, moving to a location 52 km away from the Tiangong-1 at noon Monday. The spacecraft then slowly drifted toward the Tiangong-1 before making contact with the module at 2:07 p.m.
The docking was completed in less than eight minutes.
China's first successful unmanned space docking was completed last year with the docking of the Shenzhou 8 spacecraft and the Tiangong-1.
I opened a new thread some time ago: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29184.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29184.0)
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There is an interesting design feature on Tiangong 1 and Shenzhou 9 hatch door: a small window at center of the doors. It allows the crew to have optical observation during final approach, docking and hatch opening, though the SZ-9 crew stayed in the reentry capsule this time.
As for Tiangong 1's space station qualification, I prefer to call it a mini space station. This is because TG-1 is equipped with many components commonly seen on a space station (even early Soviet stations did not have):
- Micrometeoroid shield
- Six control moment gyroscopes (CMGs)
- An improved environment control and life support system (ECLSS) with experimental water vapour separation and water electrolysis.
- A more comprehensive system health monitoring system with 7000 parameters monitored.
- Centralised control from TG-1 for altitude control, power, communication, data management and environment control. Many systems on the visiting vehicles can be shut down.
- More habitation facilities than that on a transport vehicle. Some of them are for long term occupation, for example, exercise facility.
I don't think ATV or Soyuz have all these. It is planned to develop a cargo vehicle based on TG but this is another story.
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There is an interesting design feature on Tiangong 1 and Shenzhou 9 hatch door: a small window at center of the doors. It allows the crew to have optical observation during final approach, docking and hatch opening, though the SZ-9 crew stayed in the reentry capsule this time.
Interesting but not unique. The shuttle's docking hatch had a window in the center, which was used for the centerline docking camera. Likewise Orion has a window in the docking hatch which is used for the docking camera and the VNS lidars.
A hatch window on the target vehicle isn't unique, either: the ISS CBMs have a hatch window for the centerline berthing cameras.
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Did any of the American or Russian space stations ever have a lock that had to be opened with a key?
Skylab had some sort of locking mechanism. Not sure how it operated or if it required a physical key.
See: http://www.astronautix.com/articles/skyyfate.htm
The station, never designed to be resupplied, was retired after the third mission ended on February 8, 1974. On the remote chance somebody else would venture aboard, the departing astronauts left a bag of food, clothing, film, and camera filters near the front hatch, tied securely to the telescope control panel. As they left the station, they removed the inside locking pin from the airlock hatch -- in effect, putting out the welcome mat.
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Have there been any clear, unobstructed views of the "back wall" of the station, where the supposed telescopes would be installed? I think, so far we have only seen the entry hatch and the sidewalls. (But I might have missed the looks at the back wall since I had to work and could not follow the whole coverage.)
EDIT: Did they really have to use a key to open the station's hatch? Is there really a lock, like you would find at an entry door to a house? Why that? Paranoia? Or is this "key" more like a simple tool to unlatch the hatch?
Did any of the American or Russian space stations ever have a lock that had to be opened with a key?
Alright, here is the "key", just a metal handle to latch or unlatch the hatch.
The Chinese character on the left is "Unlatch", "Latch" on the right.
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Here's a video of the crew's first day in TG-1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elmieFXfXtY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elmieFXfXtY)
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By the way, the official CMSE report on the docking gives 2:07pm Bei.Time as the docking time (vs 2:08pm reported elsewhere)
My calculation from video yields 14:07:05 plus-minus one second.
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Yeah, calling TG-1 a full-fledge space station is a little stretch, IMHO. It's more like a cargo ship like ATV, since there's only one docking port and it has such a small volume (which means it can't be resupplied while manned like many other space stations)
I think that it's been established that TG1 is based on the the Chinese equivalent of ATV. Oddly enough, the Chinese seem to have taken the concept of ATV and gone in the opposite direction. Whilst ESA have built the cargo ship and are thinking about turning it into a DSH, the Chinese seem to have started with a DSH (Just imagine it with a couple of propulsion modules on the back end heading off to EML or LLO) and are going to later use it as the basis of an automatic heavy resupply vehicle.
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I think that it's been established that TG1 is based on the the Chinese equivalent of ATV. Oddly enough, the Chinese seem to have taken the concept of ATV and gone in the opposite direction. Whilst ESA have built the cargo ship and are thinking about turning it into a DSH...
I miss the longer roadmap in the ESA activities... it was stupid to build ATV for billions of euros and finish this project after 5 resupply missions.
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I think that it's been established that TG1 is based on the the Chinese equivalent of ATV. Oddly enough, the Chinese seem to have taken the concept of ATV and gone in the opposite direction. Whilst ESA have built the cargo ship and are thinking about turning it into a DSH...
I miss the longer roadmap in the ESA activities... it was stupid to build ATV for billions of euros and finish this project after 5 resupply missions.
please take that to the appropriate ATV thread. This is a live update thread. Let's keep it that way.
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No sure if this was shown but, it is a great overview of the launch. It shows LAS, booster and first stage separation clearly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQht3L8aOs&feature=related
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New footage, including using exercise bike.
http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120619/116365.shtml
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New footage was funny. Looks like the Chinese have to test what's working in space and what not. Reminds me a little bit at the first videos we saw from the skylab missions. Be sure the chinese will improve fast.
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Yeah, calling TG-1 a full-fledge space station is a little stretch, IMHO. It's more like a cargo ship like ATV, since there's only one docking port and it has such a small volume (which means it can't be resupplied while manned like many other space stations)
I think that it's been established that TG1 is based on the the Chinese equivalent of ATV. ....
Not to my satisfaction. What's holding me up is two issues -- where are its own maneuvering thrusters for an active docking? And why is its volume so very large -- pack it with supplies and you far exceed the booster's performance. That volume to me indicates original intent for human habitation, from the pre-blueprint stage.
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And why is its volume so very large -- pack it with supplies and you far exceed the booster's performance.
Because the TG class of spacecrafts are made for the new boosters. There are a few remarks on previous statements around, which hints in this direction.
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No sure if this was shown but, it is a great overview of the launch. It shows LAS, booster and first stage separation clearly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQht3L8aOs&feature=related
Thanks for the link - some very nice shots there!
But seeing the 1st stage separation more clearly makes me curious - Why in the world are they separating the boosters just a second before the 1st stage? Why not just keep the boosters attached until the stage separation and have 4 less separation events to worry about?
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No sure if this was shown but, it is a great overview of the launch. It shows LAS, booster and first stage separation clearly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQht3L8aOs&feature=related
Thanks for the link - some very nice shots there!
But seeing the 1st stage separation more clearly makes me curious - Why in the world are they separating the boosters just a second before the 1st stage? Why not just keep the boosters attached until the stage separation and have 4 less separation events to worry about?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=14392.msg813258#msg813258 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=14392.msg813258#msg813258)
This new version of the LM-2F rocket uses lengthened liquid boosters with a higher propellant load (the boosters for the original LM-2F separates at ~T+140s), and probably the engineers decided not to fix the boosters to the first stage, since it would require in-depth investigation on the effect of series staging (if it ain't broke, don't fix it).
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Yeah, calling TG-1 a full-fledge space station is a little stretch, IMHO. It's more like a cargo ship like ATV, since there's only one docking port and it has such a small volume (which means it can't be resupplied while manned like many other space stations)
I think that it's been established that TG1 is based on the the Chinese equivalent of ATV. ....
Not to my satisfaction. What's holding me up is two issues -- where are its own maneuvering thrusters for an active docking? And why is its volume so very large -- pack it with supplies and you far exceed the booster's performance. That volume to me indicates original intent for human habitation, from the pre-blueprint stage.
TG-1 actually does have maneuvering thrusters... they were actually fired during docking, I believe. (please correct me if I'm wrong!)
And TG-1 has less volume than ATV (and many things are volume-constrained, not mass-constrained). China is working on an Ariane V-class launch vehicle, as well, as others have noted.
And, of course, ATV is basically designed with the idea of possibly having another docking port in back to act as a mini space station.
The line is blurry, but I think the argument is very strong that TG-1 and ATV are the same class of vehicle, whatever that is.
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Here's a video of the crew's first day in TG-1:
Can you please do a summary of the day activities in TG-1? I can't find any info about those.
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Xinhua picture of Liu Yang appears to be doctored
"Want China Times" Staff Reporter, Taipei
2012-06-19
13:26 (GMT+8)
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120619000071&cid=1101
A photo of Liu Yang, China's first female astronaut, published by state news agency Xinhua has been found to be remarkably similar to another photo in which she wears a military uniform, prompting speculation on the internet that the picture of Liu in a spacesuit may have been modified from the earlier photo.
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Can you please do a summary of the day activities in TG-1? I can't find any info about those.
I'll give it a shot.
According to CCTV, the astronauts:
1. air sampled the TG-1
2. video conferenced and exchanged emails with ground control,
footage: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120619/116776.shtml
3. placed some new equipments
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Xinhua picture of Liu Yang appears to be doctored
"Want China Times" Staff Reporter, Taipei
2012-06-19
13:26 (GMT+8)
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120619000071&cid=1101
A photo of Liu Yang, China's first female astronaut, published by state news agency Xinhua has been found to be remarkably similar to another photo in which she wears a military uniform, prompting speculation on the internet that the picture of Liu in a spacesuit may have been modified from the earlier photo.
wow, yeah. The loose hairs are a dead giveaway.
Question is: why.
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I don't see why the photo-shopping has to have some sinister motive behind it. As others have pointed out, this seems to be a common occurrence in their Astronaut pictures for some reason.
Laziness combined with an overestimation of their own photo-shopping skills, perhaps? It is also possible that 'shopping of official pictures is a common occurrence in Chinese society.
(I'm not casting judgement... In the U.S. the high school graduation portrait industry uses photoshop even more, just in different ways) ;)
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I don't see why the photo-shopping has to have some sinister motive behind it. As others have pointed out, this seems to be a common occurrence in their Astronaut pictures for some reason.
Laziness combined with an overestimation of their own photo-shopping skills, perhaps? It is also possible that 'shopping of official pictures is a common occurrence in Chinese society.
(I'm not casting judgement... In the U.S. the high school graduation portrait industry uses photoshop even more, just in different ways) ;)
It's pretty common in NASA crew portraits as well. The crew is often photoshopped in front of a background. Also, it's usually difficult to get all six ISS expedition crewmembers in the same place at the same time, so often the final portrait is a composite of two groups of three.
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And why is its volume so very large -- pack it with supplies and you far exceed the booster's performance.
Because the TG class of spacecrafts are made for the new boosters. There are a few remarks on previous statements around, which hints in this direction.
The volume looks large, one reason is because the four sides are not all filled with racks of experiments and hence not crowded. When you look at the released figure pressurized volume is 530 cu ft and the whole thing weights 8 tonnes.
In comparison the ISS harmony node provides 2666 cu ft of pressurized volume.
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Some pictures (screengrabs) of the June 19 activities are posted here:
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-19/109512.shtml
As far as I can recall, no 'real pictures' (i.e. no screengrabs) of onboard activities has ever been published of Shenzhou missions.
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Next Live Coverage will be on June 24, 2012 - Shenzhou-9 mission to conduct a manual docking test with Tiangong-1.
http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
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Nice pic of Tiangong with docked Shenzou during a solar transit
source: http://spaceweather.com/submissions/large_image_popup.php?image_name=Su-Shaojie-Tiangong_Shengzhou_transit_1340117693.jpg
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Communication between Control Center and Tiangong-1
http://big5.cntv.cn/gate/big5/news.cntv.cn/china/20120620/100030.shtml
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Does anybody know where the toilet facilities are onboard. How does it work in space?
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(I'm not casting judgement... In the U.S. the high school graduation portrait industry uses photoshop even more, just in different ways) ;)
I totally agree -- this is merely 'cleanup' and 'layout' editing, no indication of deliberate historic falsification -- as in the notorious cases of Soviet cosmonauts being airbrushed out in the 1960s.
By the way -- another mythical aspect of the launch -- UFOs spotted passing booster:
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981413467
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2012-06/20/content_25698635.htm
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Laziness combined with an overestimation of their own photo-shopping skills, perhaps? It is also possible that 'shopping of official pictures is a common occurrence in Chinese society.
Seems to be --- a Google search for "photoshop disasters china" turns up obviously faked shots of provincial officials doing road inspections. So, they do this sort of thing regularly, in all sorts of contexts, and it's not really likely that this instance has any particular significance.
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Next Live Coverage will be on June 24, 2012 - Shenzhou-9 mission to conduct a manual docking test with Tiangong-1.
http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
So this would be at the end of their stay, with landing on the 25th?
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Next Live Coverage will be on June 24, 2012 - Shenzhou-9 mission to conduct a manual docking test with Tiangong-1.
http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
So this would be at the end of their stay, with landing on the 25th?
Nope, it's more like within their middle of their stay: the undocking and landing is scheduled on the 29th.
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Thanks!
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A few news reports for the last two days (sorry, all in Chinese):
Astronauts have started their major work in space: biological experiments (using themselves as the target). TG-1 also made a maneuver yesterday to put SZ-9 ahead of TG-1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px7TY2HedLs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px7TY2HedLs)
The first live video communication session from TG-1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXMwWyUn_w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXMwWyUn_w)
The astronauts trying out the bicycle on board:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSqknSlD-Qw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSqknSlD-Qw)
...and the crew playing around in TG-1. Apparently the Chinese has invented a new activity for spaceflight rest periods: playing with the video-camcorder. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWN8IJwiZuA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWN8IJwiZuA)
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Ha, did Liu Yang show a device that looked like an ipod?
And can anyone identify the location of the window they were looking out through on TG-1?
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Ha, did Liu Yang show a device that looks like an ipod?
And can anyone identify the location of the window they were looking out through on TG-1?
Looks like there are several windows in TG-1: two on each side of the two sleep stations, and one on the lower-left side of TG-1's front side.
You can see the windows on the ground training model of TG-1 in this window, starting from 18:00 : http://military.cntv.cn/program/jsbd/20120619/116483.shtml (http://military.cntv.cn/program/jsbd/20120619/116483.shtml)
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Some Chinese reporters got a chance to ask questions with the 3 Russian cosmonauts on the ISS the day after the launch at MCC-M (I believe it was a Russian media event), and the answers are, well, interesting... ::)
(http://v.ifeng.com/news/world/201206/d6cfac30 (http://v.ifeng.com/news/world/201206/d6cfac30))
Reporter: You might know that China has launched a manned spacecraft on the 16th, kicking off the second phase of the construction of the future Chinese space station. I would like to ask what's your opinion on China's recent developments in spaceflight?
Oleg Kononenko: You know that famous Soviet aerospace engineer Boris Chertok once said: "The Chinese would be one who would complete the next step (of advancements in spaceflight?).", and I happen to agree with that.
Reporter: Would you try to contact the Chinese astronauts?
Oleg Kononenko: It would be great if I can meet with the Chinese astronauts! During my first spaceflight in 2008, the Chinese launched Shenzhou 7 in September of that year and completed their first EVA. A year later I met the SZ-7 crew members in Korea, and I said to them it would be great if I could meet them in space.
It would be interesting to see what the other three on the ISS would say about this matter.... ::)
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Ha, did Liu Yang show a device that looks like an ipod?
And can anyone identify the location of the window they were looking out through on TG-1?
Looks like there are several windows in TG-1: two on each side of the two sleep stations, and one on the lower-left side of TG-1's front side.
You can see the windows on the ground training model of TG-1 in this window, starting from 18:00 : http://military.cntv.cn/program/jsbd/20120619/116483.shtml (http://military.cntv.cn/program/jsbd/20120619/116483.shtml)
Thanks!
Screenshots:
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Ha, did Liu Yang show a device that looks like an ipod?
And can anyone identify the location of the window they were looking out through on TG-1?
Looks like there are several windows in TG-1: two on each side of the two sleep stations, and one on the lower-left side of TG-1's front side.
I think there is only one window in the sleep area.
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Sorry I made a mistake.
The window should be the red one.
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Some onboard pix (video stills) of June 20 and June 21 can be seen here:
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-20/109700.shtml
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-21/109794.shtml
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Interesting medical equipment to measure body parameters for medical research... can anybody here tell me (approximately) how it works?
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Some Chinese reporters got a chance to ask questions with the 3 Russian cosmonauts on the ISS the day after the launch at MCC-M (I believe it was a Russian media event), and the answers are, well, interesting... ::)
(http://v.ifeng.com/news/world/201206/d6cfac30 (http://v.ifeng.com/news/world/201206/d6cfac30))
Reporter: You might know that China has launched a manned spacecraft on the 16th, kicking off the second phase of the construction of the future Chinese space station. I would like to ask what's your opinion on China's recent developments in spaceflight?
Oleg Kononenko: You know that famous Soviet aerospace engineer Boris Chertok once said: "The Chinese would be one who would complete the next step (of advancements in spaceflight?).", and I happen to agree with that.
Reporter: Would you try to contact the Chinese astronauts?
Oleg Kononenko: It would be great if I can meet with the Chinese astronauts! During my first spaceflight in 2008, the Chinese launched Shenzhou 7 in September of that year and completed their first EVA. A year later I met the SZ-7 crew members in Korea, and I said to them it would be great if I could meet them in space.
It would be interesting to see what the other three on the ISS would say about this matter.... ::)
I wouldn't be surprised if US astronauts voiced similar pleasantries.
The borders we work so hard to put up here on Earth are not visible from space. Literally and figuratively.
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Some Chinese reporters got a chance to ask questions with the 3 Russian cosmonauts on the ISS the day after the launch at MCC-M (I believe it was a Russian media event), and the answers are, well, interesting... ::)
(http://v.ifeng.com/news/world/201206/d6cfac30 (http://v.ifeng.com/news/world/201206/d6cfac30))
Reporter: You might know that China has launched a manned spacecraft on the 16th, kicking off the second phase of the construction of the future Chinese space station. I would like to ask what's your opinion on China's recent developments in spaceflight?
Oleg Kononenko: You know that famous Soviet aerospace engineer Boris Chertok once said: "The Chinese would be one who would complete the next step (of advancements in spaceflight?).", and I happen to agree with that.
Reporter: Would you try to contact the Chinese astronauts?
Oleg Kononenko: It would be great if I can meet with the Chinese astronauts! During my first spaceflight in 2008, the Chinese launched Shenzhou 7 in September of that year and completed their first EVA. A year later I met the SZ-7 crew members in Korea, and I said to them it would be great if I could meet them in space.
It would be interesting to see what the other three on the ISS would say about this matter.... ::)
I wouldn't be surprised if US astronauts voiced similar pleasantries.
The borders we work so hard to put up here on Earth are not visible from space. Literally and figuratively.
That's not /entirely/ true... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/06/india-pakistan-border-iss_n_951002.html
(Being a stickler since 1985... ;))
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Sorry I made a mistake.
The window should be the red one.
Dou you have a bigger version of the screenshot with the view towards the front of the cabin with the light streaming in through the window (at lower left in your collage)? I have not seen the footage that this scene is from...
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Sorry I made a mistake.
The window should be the red one.
Dou you have a bigger version of the screenshot with the view towards the front of the cabin with the light streaming in through the window (at lower left in your collage)? I have not seen the footage that this scene is from...
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CNTV video update of June 22
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newshour/20120622/101964.shtml
Liu Yang's had to work the night shift (on June 21). Apart from checking all the equipment and sending data back to the control centre, she took some time out during night duty to play Rubic’s cube and clean up the space lab.
source: http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120622/100172.shtml
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More news reports from today (unfortunately it's in Chinese... :-[)
Notice how Liu Yang tries to flip over in space! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQX3jT6qVg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQX3jT6qVg)
And here's a surprising report: the first ever manual attitude control of the Shenzhou spacecraft (along with Tiangong 1) was completed 6 hours ago, using the "joysticks" located in SZ-9's descent module. I thought something like this would have been attempted by Shenzhou 6.... :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glc7t-2DTZM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glc7t-2DTZM)
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It seems like the lack of hard handles to hold on to is making movement around the cabin more challenging than it would be otherwise.
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It seems like the lack of hard handles to hold on to is making movement around the cabin more challenging than it would be otherwise.
Rememberv that these people are still very new to the experience and not as graceful as later. Look at video of astronauts arriving from the Shuttle at Mir or the ISS, there is a real contrast between the clumsy new arrivals and the people who have been there for months, who, by comarison, are as graceful as fish.
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Oh sure, experience would help. But, the soft handles and walls would not help. Imagine walking around in a house made from foam floors and cloth walls. It would be hard to keep your balance - not a direct analog to TG1 of course, but I think it is a factor.
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O the other hand they doubtless save a lot of weight and are less hazardous.
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Notice how Liu Yang tries to flip over in space! :)
Apparently, somersaults in space will not be an olympic sport any time soon.
And here's a surprising report: the first ever manual attitude control of the Shenzhou spacecraft (along with Tiangong 1) was completed 6 hours ago, using the "joysticks" located in SZ-9's descent module. I thought something like this would have been attempted by Shenzhou 6.... :-\
And that is a surprise, indeed. This is not your grandpas space station.
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CNTV video (in English) of the activities of June 22
http://english.cntv.cn/program/china24/20120622/103105.shtml
Transcript:
Five days after the successful docking of Shenzhou 9 with Tiangong-1, for the first time, astronauts have manually changed the attitude control for both modules.
Liu Wang turned off the control system on Tiangong-1 around noon Friday Beijing time. When Shenzhou-9 took charge of the flight of the joint space modules, Liu Wang tested three different kinds of positioning of the modules.
When they aren’t controlling the direction of the mission, the three astronauts are getting used to space life. On Thursday night, they had the chance to talk on the phone with their families.
Liu Wang even played harmonica for his wife to celebrate her birthday. But the most active member among the three is Liu Yang, the only female astronaut on the mission. Video footage shows that she often practices somersaults in the lab.
According to the center, the three astronauts are getting prepared for the first-time crew-guided docking on Sunday.
And here's a video about the food onboard for the taikonauts
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120623/100522.shtml
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Brief [quotable] report:
BEIJING, June 23 (Xinhua) -- A manual docking will be conducted between the Shenzhou-9 manned spacecraft and the orbiting Tiangong-1 lab module around 12 p.m. Sunday, according to a spokesperson of China's manned space program
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Objects catalogued so far by USSTRATCOM
38461 SZ-9 2012-032A
38462 CZ-2F R/B 2012-032B
38463 OBJECT C 2012-032C
38464 OBJECT D 2012-032D
38465 OBJECT E 2012-032E
38467 OBJECT F 2012-032F
Objects C, D, E and F could be retrorocket fairings from CZ-2F/G second stage
Edit:
Also an additional object:
38520 CZ-2F DEB 2012-032G
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CCTV will have live reports of the manual docking test starting from 03:55 UTC (source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=9648&pid=205975&fromuid=19646)).
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Undocking will be at 11:08 CST (03:08 UTC).
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What is the best live stream today? I have a fast connection. Preferably something that is unlikely to go down if there are a lot of people watching.
Thanks Peter
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What is the best live stream today? I have a fast connection. Preferably something that is unlikely to go down if there are a lot of people watching.
Thanks Peter
CNTV
http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
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I see the weather conditions in space are calm for the docking :o
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120624/100076.shtml
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Undocking will be at 11:08 CST (03:08 UTC).
And that will be now!
50 mins to CCTV coverage.
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The undocking command has been issued.
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Shenzhou-9 has undocked.
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300 meters.
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Watch this chinese live coverage,
http://big5.cntv.cn/gate/big5/news.cntv.cn/special/shenjiu/index.shtml
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140 meters.
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Slightly off-topic question: when was the last time a Soyuz spacecraft did a manual docking?
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BTW the English live coverage has started.
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CCTV English coverage has begun.
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VLC link?
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when was the last time a Soyuz spacecraft did a manual docking?
Soyuz TMA-19 re-docking to ISS by Fyodor Yurchikhin on June 28, 2010.
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VLC link?
http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
(That's not a VLC Link - Chris).
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A VLC link would be most appreciated. None of the links posted so far are working for me. Plugin+browser issues in Chrome and FF.
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Apologies - I thought that the footage shown was the live docking. It was in fact a replay of the automatic docking.
One question - which of the 3 taikonauts will do the first manual docking?
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This link is working for me
http://www.cctv-9.com/2005/default.asp?videoName=live&videoSpeed=300
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Thank-you so much!
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A question. If something went wrong and the Shenzhou was damaged during docking but the spacecraft was still able to dock with the Tiangong, what recuse options exist for the Taikonauts and how long could they stay up in the Tiangong?
Also would there be any spacecraft available anywhere (Spacex?) that could ferry up supplies (oxygen etc) at short notice until some sort of rescue craft could be arranged?
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which of the 3 taikonauts will do the first manual docking?
Liu Wang.
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This link is working for me
http://www.cctv-9.com/2005/default.asp?videoName=live&videoSpeed=300
that link hits mms://4.71.37.8/cctv9-200 which works but is low res.
poked a couple of other 'rates' (300,400,480)... nothing.
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I'm thinking Apollo 13 with Chinese characteristics...
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Good enough, pberrett! Thanks! :)
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VLC user please try this: mms://a529.l7906022528.c79060.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/529/79060/v0001/reflector:22528
Interesting to see that Shenzhou has both a rotational and translational joystick (I believe Soyuz put both functions into a single joystick).
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I must compliment CCTV on their graphics - simply awesome 3d graphics.
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CCTV English translation of a Chinese explanation of docking controls
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Overview of how it's complex.
10 minutes to the events.
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By the way, if anyone's willing, I'll take a couple of better res shots if possible (for Rui's article).
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Simulator docking training explanations.
Live to Shenzhou interior
.
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About to start.
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Three minutes.
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140 meters
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TG-1 arrays aligned.
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Manual control
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MANUAL CONTROL!
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"waiting for the perfect conditions"
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Thanks for the nicer shots Aaron! :)
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Must be waiting for Shenzhou to enter China's space. Has anybody noticed that the CCTV live time is about 3 minutes slower than UTC?
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Thruster firings showing.
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0.4m per second closure.
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Chinese version of LiDAR working.
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50 meters.
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30 meter parking point.
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And onwards.
20 meters.
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15 meters. Looks very good.
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10 meters. A bit left and right, but very steady.
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1 meter
docked
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Docking!
Congratulations!
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Very nice
Congrats China
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Contact and capture!
Lovely job!
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ten minutes of checking docking out
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All looks very nominal.
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TV discussion of future docking, thrusters, simulators
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Is a 40cm /sec docking fast by the standards of other nations?
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compliments on docking, clapping
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Both vehicles secured.
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astronauts shaking hands
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Happy Chinese....
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Yep. And happy space cadets everywhere!
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CCTV - "Practice makes perfect. And this is a good example of this."
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Talking about flags on Zhenzhou that flew on Soyuz, ISS...
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I will now have to get a Tiangong-Shenzhou docking model. I just looked on Ebay. Apart from being somewhat expensive they come from the US!
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John Lewis actually doing well on the question about NASA. Funny how he's (rightly) defending commercial LEO, taking it away from the government, to the Chinese! ;D
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Discussion of manual versus automatic control of spacecraft.
John Lewis discussing Mars, asteroid, and ISS missions. Government versus private spacecraft.
China expert - future space station, proposed heavy lift launchers
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And the Chinese expert, who's been brilliant throughout, defends the need for a HLV for Deep Space! ;D
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He talks about a mission to an Asteroid, obviously in a US context but would China currently have the capability to send a manned mission to an Asteroid?
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I followed Shenzhou 9 on n2yo.com and noticed that CCTV's live broadcast time is about 3 minutes slower than UTC. See the attached screen grab made when CCTV time turned 12:58 (which should be 04:58:00 UTC plus minus 1 sec), but UTC on n2yo.com was 05:00:54. Does anybody know why CCTV clock is slower?
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I followed Shenzhou 9 on n2yo.com and noticed that CCTV's live broadcast time is about 3 minutes slower than UTC. See the attached screen grab made when CCTV time turned 12:58 (which should be 04:58:00 UTC plus minus 1 sec), but UTC on n2yo.com was 05:00:54. Does anybody know why CCTV clock is slower?
Probably just the delay of internet broadcasting.
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He talks about a mission to an Asteroid, obviously in a US context but would China currently have the capability to send a manned mission to an Asteroid?
Humans currently lack such an ability.
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Providing a variety of info about the spacesuits and EVAS
This was fun! Gotta go! :)
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I followed Shenzhou 9 on n2yo.com and noticed that CCTV's live broadcast time is about 3 minutes slower than UTC. See the attached screen grab made when CCTV time turned 12:58 (which should be 04:58:00 UTC plus minus 1 sec), but UTC on n2yo.com was 05:00:54. Does anybody know why CCTV clock is slower?
Because you are watching a webcast.
Here over air, the time difference between my MacBook Air's clock (synced with time.apple.com) and the clock on television in the control room is only 3 to 4 seconds.
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Rui's article for the manual docking:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/06/shenzhou-9-conducts-manual-docking-test-tiangong-1/
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I followed Shenzhou 9 on n2yo.com and noticed that CCTV's live broadcast time is about 3 minutes slower than UTC. See the attached screen grab made when CCTV time turned 12:58 (which should be 04:58:00 UTC plus minus 1 sec), but UTC on n2yo.com was 05:00:54. Does anybody know why CCTV clock is slower?
I watched it on a satellite dish, I noticed that web stream is at least 2 mins behind, it's probably a thing from signal conversion.
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Some commentary about the Russian space program now...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Byz8T1w1hI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Byz8T1w1hI)
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John Lewis actually doing well on the question about NASA. Funny how he's (rightly) defending commercial LEO, taking it away from the government, to the Chinese! ;D
I'd like to hear that.
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Good to see the task well done :-)
Undocking will be at 11:08 CST (03:08 UTC).
yaohua2000, thank you for valuable comments. I would propose another designation for Chinese time because CST stands for Central Standard Time for decades and matches Houston. To avoid confusion, I propose BJT (Beijing Time).
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UPDATE 1-China manned docking a key step for space station Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:15am EDT
At: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/24/china-space-idUSL3E8HO03M20120624
See also:
Will China overtake America in space?
By Joan Johnson-Freese, Special to CNN June 20, 2012
At: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/20/opinion/freese-china-space/index.html
Will China Blast Past America In Space?
At: http://www.npr.org/2012/06/22/155582842/will-china-blast-past-america-in-space
Edited.
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Are the final undocking and de-orbit times public anywhere yet?
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"After the manual docking, the astronauts will stay inside the complex for another six days before they return to the Earth."
From: http://english.cntv.cn/special/shenzhou9/index.shtml
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Are the final undocking and de-orbit times public anywhere yet?
Only prediction at http://www.zarya.info/Calendar.php ;(
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Some interesting pictures on Xinhua
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/24/c_131672698.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/24/c_131672698.htm)
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Are the final undocking and de-orbit times public anywhere yet?
Undocking will happen on the 28th and astronauts will return on the 29th - according to a guy who's noted it privately to us. Actual times, don't know.
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Some interesting pictures on Xinhua
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/24/c_131672698.htm (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/24/c_131672698.htm)
Still just low-res screen captures. :-\
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At 4 p.m. local time, Liu Wang opened the hatch of the Tiangong module and entered the station, followed by the other taikonauts. In a video message later in the day, they congratulated China’s ‘oceanauts’ Ye Cong, Liu Kaizhou and Yang Bo in their submersible who reached a depth of 7,020 meters beneath the surface in a test dive in the Pacific Ocean. “We wish China’s manned submersible cause greater achievement! May our motherland prosper!” the taikonauts said.
source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-06/24/c_131673022.htm
In addition, the crew made preparations to continue their set of experiments. It was also reported that Liu Yang had been knitting a traditional Chinese decoration that symbolizes good luck.
Video: http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120625/108993.shtml
Pictures (screen grabs): http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-24/110207.shtml#nextpage
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On June 26, Chinese President Hu Jintao came to the Beijing Aerospace Control Center, accompanied by senior leaders Jia Qinglin, Li Changchun, Xi Jinping and Li Keqiang.
In a conversation with the three taikonauts, Hu extended his sincere greetings to the trio.
“You have spent nearly 10 days in space, we care about you. How are you feeling?” asked the president.
Mission commander Jing said they were in good condition and told the president: “Chinese astronauts have their own home in space now. We are proud of our country!”
Hu also asked whether their assignments were going well. Jing replied that all work was going smoothly, the manual docking had been completed successfully and the crew members were doing scientific experiments as planned.
President Hu Jintao said he was glad to hear that the crew were all in good condition and that their experiments were going on smoothly. He highlighted that China’s first manual docking was a historic moment in the country’s space program and its success means China has completely grasped space docking technologies. He said: “As the astronauts of China’s first manned space docking mission, your performance has been excellent and you three have made great contributions to the development of China’s manned space program. Our country and people appreciate your efforts. We hope you will work closely and carefully to complete the next tasks. We and your family members are awaiting your safe return home.”
In response, commander Jing Haipen expressed the team’s confidence, stating: “We are sure to remember firmly the directions of President Hu and complete our tasks.” The three astronauts saluted the president at the end of their talk.
sources: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-06/26/c_131676447.htm
and http://english.cntv.cn/program/newshour/20120626/113451.shtml
Photos: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/26/c_131676545_2.htm
Video (summary): http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120626/113769.shtml
Full video here: http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120626/109096.shtml
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Backgrounder: Tiangong-1's planned missions
06-26-2012 10:11 BJT
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120626/108785.shtml
"After rendezvous and docking, Tiangong-1 and Shenzhou-9 will orbit together. This will form the second mission."
And the third mission, Shenzhou-10, is expected early next year.
Moreover, this article also explicitly describes a FOURTH mission to Tiangong-1.
"The fourth mission will create a new platform for carrying out scientific research experiments.
Within a weightless environment, it’s important to test the physical condition of the human body. A series of experiments will focus on protecting the astronauts from the effects of weightlessness and maintaining their cardio and muscular functions. Biological and space material tests will also be carried out. They will form part of the research into the environment the astronauts will be exposed to."
Is that a manned 'Shenzhou-11', or something else?
OR -- will both the second mission AND the third mission BOTH be performed by the current Shenzhou-9? And Shenzhou-10 does the FOURTH and last mission of tiangong-1?
Dang, this ambiguity of translation is frustrating.
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Backgrounder: Tiangong-1's planned missions
06-26-2012 10:11 BJT
http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20120626/108785.shtml
"After rendezvous and docking, Tiangong-1 and Shenzhou-9 will orbit together. This will form the second mission."
And the third mission, Shenzhou-10, is expected early next year.
Moreover, this article also explicitly describes a FOURTH mission to Tiangong-1.
"The fourth mission will create a new platform for carrying out scientific research experiments.
Within a weightless environment, it’s important to test the physical condition of the human body. A series of experiments will focus on protecting the astronauts from the effects of weightlessness and maintaining their cardio and muscular functions. Biological and space material tests will also be carried out. They will form part of the research into the environment the astronauts will be exposed to."
Is that a manned 'Shenzhou-11', or something else?
OR -- will both the second mission AND the third mission BOTH be performed by the current Shenzhou-9? And Shenzhou-10 does the FOURTH and last mission of tiangong-1?
Dang, this ambiguity of translation is frustrating.
Could the "fourth mission" in the Tiangong program be to the second space station, Tiangong-2?
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I have a feeling that 'mission' means 'goal' in this context, not a literal separate flight of a Shenzhou spacecraft...
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It is a bit ambiguous, although there has never been any previous mention of a fourth mission to TG-1 and yesterday's statements regarding the costs of the programme referred to a phase which ended with SZ-10.
However, I thought that this was an interesting quote, from the item which Jim highlighted:-
"Zhang said, "The space lab is like a house, if we don’t use it very often micro-organisms and bacteria build up. For example, if the space lab door is closed for half a year, it’s very likely we won’t be able to open it after this time. That can make the whole mission very risky."
This seems to say that they won't want to leave TG-1 unoccupied for more than six months, which suggests the next flight will be later this year, rather than 2013, as most recent reports have suggested.
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Given the inability of TG-1 to be resupplied, it seems questionable if they would be able to have multiple manned missions to it.
That is, unless they launched it packed with supplies for multiple visiting crews. But with its small size, how many missions could that be?
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Given the inability of TG-1 to be resupplied, it seems questionable if they would be able to have multiple manned missions to it.
That is, unless they launched it packed with supplies for multiple visiting crews. But with its small size, how many missions could that be?
Bring the supplies with you, in the orbital module of the Shenzhou.
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Given the inability of TG-1 to be resupplied, it seems questionable if they would be able to have multiple manned missions to it.
That is, unless they launched it packed with supplies for multiple visiting crews. But with its small size, how many missions could that be?
Bring the supplies with you, in the orbital module of the Shenzhou.
How much extra can the CZ-2F carry? They could have the volume for more supplies in the OM but not the extra lift to spare.
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I have a feeling that 'mission' means 'goal' in this context, not a literal separate flight of a Shenzhou spacecraft...
You are correct. In the original Chinese text, the term means "goal" or "task" as in there are four goals for the Tiangong-1 mission during its 2 years in orbit:
1. to rendezvous with Shenzhou-8 and assist its docking with Tiangong-1 serving as the destination;
2. to guarantee safety of astronauts living and working in it for a short period;
3. to carry out space applications including space environment observations, space medicine experiments, and space warfare technology experiments;
4. to establish a space experimental platform for short-term manned operations and long-term unmanned operations in order to accumulate experience for building a space station in the future
Chinese description of Tiangong-1 mission can be found here:
http://www.stdaily.com/special/content/2011-10/14/content_356266.htm
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Given the inability of TG-1 to be resupplied, it seems questionable if they would be able to have multiple manned missions to it.
That is, unless they launched it packed with supplies for multiple visiting crews. But with its small size, how many missions could that be?
The Soviets did this with Salyuts 4 and 5 and intended to do it with Salyuts 1 and 3 (plus the failed Salyuts). So, why can't the Chinese do the same?
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Some TV pix of Liu Yang doing tai chi during her second night shift; see
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-27/110681.shtml
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Way back when TG-1 was being discussed on the old Chinese Space thread I understood that there were to be three missions to the spacecraft:
* Shenzhou 8 - Uncrewed
* Shenzhou 9 - Crewed
* Shenzhou 10 - Crewed.
Two crewed missions of 3-6 weeks duration each wouldn't be too much. Tiangong-1 probably launched with most of the supplies for this with extra perishable supplies launchedd on the Shenzhou with the mission crew.
After SZ-10, attention will doubtless turn to developing and launching the Mir-clone TG-2. We might also see their MHLV, Long March 5, make an appearance along with a Zond-like lunar flyby (the latter for propeganda purposes only).
[edit]
Some TV pix of Liu Yang doing tai chi during her second night shift;
Tai Chi in space? That's a new one for mitigating the affects of microgravity on the human body! I'm sure lots of doctors might be very interested to see how using isokinetics work out!
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Way back when TG-1 was being discussed on the old Chinese Space thread I understood that there were to be three missions to the spacecraft:
* Shenzhou 8 - Uncrewed
* Shenzhou 9 - Crewed
* Shenzhou 10 - Crewed.
Two crewed missions of 3-6 weeks duration each wouldn't be too much. Tiangong-1 probably launched with most of the supplies for this with extra perishable supplies launchedd on the Shenzhou with the mission crew.
After SZ-10, attention will doubtless turn to developing and launching the Mir-clone TG-2. We might also see their MHLV, Long March 5, make an appearance along with a Zond-like lunar flyby (the latter for propeganda purposes only).
[edit]
Some TV pix of Liu Yang doing tai chi during her second night shift;
Tai Chi in space? That's a new one for mitigating the affects of microgravity on the human body! I'm sure lots of doctors might be very interested to see how using isokinetics work out!
It was my impression that TG-2 and -3 would be upgraded versions of the first, and the fourth station would be like Mir.
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I have a feeling that 'mission' means 'goal' in this context, not a literal separate flight of a Shenzhou spacecraft...
You are correct. In the original Chinese text, the term means "goal" or "task" as in there are four goals for the Tiangong-1 mission during its 2 years in orbit:
1. to rendezvous with Shenzhou-8 and assist its docking with Tiangong-1 serving as the destination;
2. to guarantee safety of astronauts living and working in it for a short period;
3. to carry out space applications including space environment observations, space medicine experiments, and space warfare technology experiments;
4. to establish a space experimental platform for short-term manned operations and long-term unmanned operations in order to accumulate experience for building a space station in the future
Chinese description of Tiangong-1 mission can be found here:
http://www.stdaily.com/special/content/2011-10/14/content_356266.htm
In many Chinese reports on their spacelab and space station, the abbreviation 'JEM' is used. Easy to confuse with the Japanese ISS segment, what does the 'Chinese JEM' stand for?
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Moderator - maybe this discussion should be moved elsewhere?
I disagree that Tiangong 2 will be a "Mir clone" as suggested above.
Such a module would need a variant of the CZ-5 launch vehice to carry it into orbit, and the CZ-5 isn't going to debut until 2014 at the earliest.
On the other hand, Tiangong 2 is due next year. We know from the pre-launch photos that there was a back-up to Tiangong 1 built, so I believe that the back-up vehicle will be modified to act as Tiangong 2, maybe with more science equipment on board, capable for supporting longer visits by three crews, but still with only the one docking port.
That would take us to 2015-2016 and then the launch of Tiangong 3 aboard maybe the second or third CZ-5 vehicle - assuming successful Shenzhou visits and CZ-5 debuts, of course..
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From Xinhua via People's Daily: Landing zone gears up for Shenzhou-9 return (http://english.people.com.cn/202936/7855406.html).
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I disagree that Tiangong 2 will be a "Mir clone" as suggested above.
Such a module would need a variant of the CZ-5 launch vehice to carry it into orbit, and the CZ-5 isn't going to debut until 2014 at the earliest.
A lot depends on how much of a rush the Chinese are in; all previous evidence and launch rates suggests that they have no particular interest in hurrying.
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Start a new thread on TG-2. No more on this UPDATE thread (should be bloody obvious, but clearly not).
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Start a new thread on TG-2. No more on this UPDATE thread (should be bloody obvious, but clearly not).
I have initiated a thread called "Tiangong 2 and Tiangong 3" in the Chinese section ...............
Maybe that will be the appropriate place to discuss what may and may not be expected on these stations and their supporting Shenzhou missions.
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Some TV pix of Liu Yang doing tai chi during her second night shift; see
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2012/06-27/110681.shtml
In video:
http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120627/102000.shtml
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Notice for closure of air space for SZ-9's landing (source: http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=8196&pid=206972&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=8196&pid=206972&fromuid=19646))
A0798/12 (Issued for ZBPE ZLHW) - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY
N430400E1024100-N431800E1140300-N420900E1140500-N402100E1025900
BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO
FLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 29 JUN 01:36 2012 UNTIL 29 JUN 02:17 2012 ESTIMATED.
CREATED: 27 JUN 06:10 2012
A0797/12 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY
N431400E1090900-N414300E1091500-N421100E1140000-N431600E1135200
BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO
FLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 29 JUN 01:36 2012 UNTIL 29 JUN 02:17 2012 ESTIMATED.
CREATED: 27 JUN 06:08 2012
This fits exactly with the estimated landing time of 01:59 UTC by Bob Christy: http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/9/Shenzhou9LandingEvents.php (http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/9/Shenzhou9LandingEvents.php)
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Hi guys and gals,while things are quiet on the update thread,any news as to if the times estimated here will come to pass?
I am hanging around now that I have a bit of spare time.
anyone know if CCTV will cover it live?
UTC time would be the ideal as it does not cause any petty squabbling between Nations. :)
Thank you all so much in advance.
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Hi guys and gals,while things are quiet on the update thread,any news as to if the times estimated here will come to pass?
I am hanging around now that I have a bit of spare time.
anyone know if CCTV will cover it live?
UTC time would be the ideal as it does not cause any petty squabbling between Nations. :)
Thank you all so much in advance.
According to this Chinese report:
http://news.china.com.cn/zhuanti/szjh/2012-06/27/content_25745539.htm
the astronauts will return on the morning of June 29, and CCTV will cover it live from Beijing Aerospace Command and Control Center with commentary by Sun Wei, senior engineer of the Beijing Institute of Tracking and Telecommunications Technology. China time is 8 hours ahead of UTC.
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This fits exactly with the estimated landing time of 01:59 UTC by Bob Christy: http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/9/Shenzhou9LandingEvents.php (http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/9/Shenzhou9LandingEvents.php)
That website (http://www.zarya.info/Diaries/China/Shenzhou/9/Shenzhou9Diary.php) shows undocking occurring at 01:20 UTC which is in just under 2 hours, Ill keep an eye on CCTV, see if they show it, Theres nothing in the schedules unfortunately.
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There should be two more events, undocking of SZ-9 from TG-1 on Thursday and re-entry of SZ-9 on Friday Beijing time. I do not know the exact time as of now for these two events, but I am sure the re-entry will be broadcast live on CCTV.
I am surprised there is no mention of them launching a BX-1 microsatellite like they did in SZ-7 to provide a better view of the mission.
(http://www.thespacereview.com/archive/1235a.jpg)
Images from the BX-1 on SZ-7's re-entry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gucoUoG2XTo
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Hi guys and gals,while things are quiet on the update thread,any news as to if the times estimated here will come to pass?
I am hanging around now that I have a bit of spare time.
anyone know if CCTV will cover it live?
UTC time would be the ideal as it does not cause any petty squabbling between Nations. :)
Thank you all so much in advance.
According to this Chinese report:
http://news.china.com.cn/zhuanti/szjh/2012-06/27/content_25745539.htm
the astronauts will return on the morning of June 29, and CCTV will cover it live from Beijing Aerospace Command and Control Center with commentary by Sun Wei, senior engineer of the Beijing Institute of Tracking and Telecommunications Technology. China time is 8 hours ahead of UTC.
Again much appreciated mate,thanks so much. :)
I should ask has undocking taken place or what do posters think,will it be like a Soyuz,that is will they be able to undock and land within hours?
still miss the shuttles,they may have had faults but the crew never had to undock and hard land with almost no margin to check the systems out. ;D
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Latest news: Liu Wang is in the controls as Shenzhou 9 prepares to undock from Tiangong 1. (source: http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=9648&pid=207024&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=9648&pid=207024&fromuid=19646))
Edit: Confirmed separation
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English CCTV News simply said it undocked, no video sadly.
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They aren't landing in a few hours are they? Because they undocked.
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They aren't landing in a few hours are they? Because they undocked.
Nope, they seems to be following the Shenzhou 8 procedures of landing 25 hours after undocking: at around 02:00 UTC tomorrow. See the air space closure notices several posts above.
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English CCTV News simply said it undocked, no video sadly.
Thanks for update Mapperuo, for what it is worth even though China has allowed much live coverage for parts of a mission,they tend to time delay anything on its first test in case of disaster.
not to stray off topic too much but I think NASA also built in a short time delay after Challenger,after all when a crew is lost,the first to know should be their Family.
Really sad that almost every schoolkid were watching Challenger,some of them never recovered,I will leave it there except to say that a time delay is no harm in some circumstances.
cheers
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Video of hatch closure at 22:37 UTC yesterday: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120628/104467.shtml (http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120628/104467.shtml)
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Video of hatch closure at 22:37 UTC yesterday: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120628/104467.shtml (http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120628/104467.shtml)
Nice one GP,I always think that lovers of spaceflight see beyond borders and politics,rather they see the big picture,thank you for that. :)
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CCTV English just ran a short report with video now, couple screenshots from it.
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http://scitech.people.com.cn/n/2012/0628/c239673-18399663.html
Undocking time 0922 Beijing time
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Re-entry has been confirmed to be Friday morning 10:00hrs Beijing time ! I am sure it will be covered live on state television being the first female Taikonaut and all !
BEIJING, June 28 (Xinhua) -- Shenzhou-9 manned spacecraft will return to the Earth around 10 a.m. Friday, a spokesperson of China's manned space program announced here Thursday.
Shenzhou-9 spacecraft and Tiangong-1 lab module has been successfully separated by manual operation Thursday morning, according to the Beijing Aerospace Control Center.
It was the first time for China's spacecraft and target module to be disjoined by manual operation.
The three Chinese astronauts returned to Shenzhou-9 spacecraft from Tiangong-1 lab module at 6 a.m. Thursday, to prepare for the manual separation attempt.
Liu Wang conducted the manual operation to separate Shenzhou-9 spacecraft and the orbiting Tiangong-1. He will continue manual operation and steer the spacecraft to a safety distance.
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CCTV English just ran a short report with video now, couple screenshots from it.
And a video in Chinese: http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120628/108872.shtml (http://news.cntv.cn/china/20120628/108872.shtml)
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http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2012/06-28/3991797.shtml
according to sources, after the undocking, the crew attempted another manual docking approach, but not docking.
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http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2012/06-28/3991797.shtml
according to sources, after the undocking, the crew attempted another manual docking approach, but not docking.
Specifically, they retreated to the 5 kilometers point, then did a manual approach to within 140 meters of TG-1. Hopefully the Chinese planned a photography session with an astronaut peeking out of the orbital module's front window! :)
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If you need more pictures, here are some views of some hi-fidelity models I brought back from Beijing in April:
www.jamesoberg.com
If anyone wants to copy them over to here, be my guest.
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http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2012/06-28/3991797.shtml
according to sources, after the undocking, the crew attempted another manual docking approach, but not docking.
Specifically, they retreated to the 5 kilometers point, then did a manual approach to within 140 meters of TG-1. Hopefully the Chinese planned a photography session with an astronaut peeking out of the orbital module's front window! :)
Google translate's version makes it sound as if this is a story from yesterday saying what was planned, rather than a report confirming it happened - can you clarify?
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CCTV English coverage begins 09:00 Beijing tomorrow, 01:00 UTC.
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Live broadcast will commence on most CCTV stations at 21:00hrs EST
I bet the three Taikonauts can't wait to get out their capsule for some fresh air after spending 24 hours in that cramp capsule !
(Note: Don't embed massive images. That's someone elses work - the (c) was a clue - Chris).
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Better than two weeks in Gemini!
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Having lots of internet problems (my service provide decided no one will be up past midnight, so they are upgrading the backbone - thanks!) so I'll need everyone's help with the landing.
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CCTV special coverage is starting
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Everything is ready for the return...
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Talking about the mission...
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Hu Jintao calling SZ-9
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VLC or alternate link, anyone?
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VLC or alternate link, anyone?
http://www.cctv-9.com/2005/asx/live/live_300.asx
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Last day of fun in zero-g...
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Retro-bracking in 16 minutes?
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Hummm... ;)
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Local weather fine for landing.
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Training for the search and recovery crews...
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Talking about the future space station
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Talking about the Chinese collaboration on ISS on the Alpha-magnetic spectrometer.
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Reentry module has separated from the orbital module.
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Talking about space disasters during reentry...
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Russia choose Siberia for the return of manned space missions? What?
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Back-up of landing site is on the sea.
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Add the winds can't be higher than 10 km/h.
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Looking for the link to CCTV. Lots of pages to go through....anyway thanks for the coverage. Using F5 key liberally.
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http://www.cctv-9.com/2005/asx/live/live_300.asx
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Add the winds can't be higher than 10 km/h.
Real numbers...nice LOL
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Thanks Robertross!
Edit: just tried it and not working on my Mac. But I'm using
mms://4.71.37.8/cctv9-200
on my VLC and it's working okay.
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Preliminary estimate of landing zone in autonomous Mongolia
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Descent module has separated.
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Reentry module has separated!
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Wow, quite a bit of shake on those solar arrays!
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Great capture on that sequence Rui!
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Graphics on SZ-9 return at http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-06/29/c_131683203.htm
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Great capture on that sequence Rui!
Thanks!
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recovery helicopters being deployed to landing area
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Damn! This guy is always asking what can go wrong!
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Reentry images!!!!!!!!!!
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They are bringing up Columbia's fate & wing strike...
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They certainly have good optical tracking capabilities...wow, quite a steady image!
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Predicted landing point is 111.4 deg. East, 42.325 deg. North.
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SZ-9 leaving black-out zone.
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Out of the blackout
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successful chute deployment!
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Predicted landing point is 111.4 deg. East, 42.325 deg. North.
Second prediction: 42.283 N, 111.284 E
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IR image feed...sweet :)
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The heat shield dropped off (I imagine as planned)
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A calm MCC...so that means no issues...LOL
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Propellant dispersal/purge
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Predicted landing point is 111.4 deg. East, 42.325 deg. North.
Second prediction: 42.283 N, 111.284 E
Third prediction: 42.267 N, 111.295 E
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touchdown!
congrats to China!!
It landed upside down
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Geee! That was violent!
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Wow did a flip.. That would have been quite a ride!
Congratulations!
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Geee! That was violent!
Yeah, big time!
Great screen capture again, and thanks for the images.
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Did they cut the chutes before touchdown? If so, that shouldn't happen, should it?
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Did they cut the chutes before touchdown? If so, that shouldn't happen, should it?
It was coming down at a fair clip anyway, but I think I saw both happen near-simultaneous (but I could be wrong).
It was like a controlled explosion (of course retro-rockets being fired 1 meter before hitting the ground seems quite jarring)
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People already near SZ-9.
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Appears they landed next to a trail or road. Might help getting the vehicles in close.
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I find it amazing how the ground crews are CARRYING so much equipment with them to the landing site: in their hands and even with crates on their backs, from the helicopters a ways away
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Checking Radiation levels and will cover shields
Met ship in ten min.
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I find it amazing how the ground crews are CARRYING so much equipment with them to the landing site: in their hands and even with crates on their backs, from the helicopters a ways away
Terrain appears a bit too rugged for a close-by chopper landing.
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Checking Radiation levels and will cover shields
Met ship in ten min.
Toxic propellent levels.
If there were a radiation danger, I'd be both worried and very surprised. :D
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Well, congrats China! Your first full crewed rendezvous & docking mission....and you made it look as easy as Dragon's rendezvous with ISS. :)
Remember: It's only about two days until we get to do this all over again (for the Soyuz TMA-03M return from ISS).
And on that note: For the history buffs, will this be the shortest amount of time in history between crew returns from space?
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For the history buffs, will this be the shortest amount of time in history between crew returns from space?
There were seven minutes between Vostok-3 and Vostok-4 landings.
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There were seven minutes between Vostok-3 and Vostok-4 landings.
Thanks anik. :)
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SUVs... Lots of SUVs... bit different than seeing a few big military trucks the Russians use.
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Thx for the updated images/info.
And thanks to the folks posting the re-entry & landing info & images earlier!
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TG-1 designed to stay in orbit for two years.
Fuel use better than expected....oonly used 25% so hope to extend life for much longer.
TG-1 to be put into a higher orbit shortly.
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Less than 3 cubic meters of space in entry cap.
More room than a Soyuz Announcer says
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Astronauts taking their time coming out - 3 of them plus a member of the ground crew in there for a while. All 3 have unstrapped - must be a tangle in there.
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Xinhua news says the astronauts will come out in about 25 minutes.
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My feed is dropping now...
they are getting used to gravity again and will stay inside for 25 min or more.
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Still waiting for Jing Haipeng, Liu Wang and Liu Yang to come out of SZ-9.
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our SZ-9 is far better than Soyuz...
best solar arrays, better than used on ISS
SZ- is made out of alum also larger than Soyuz
far better sensor systems.....
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Just thinking out loud,
13 days in space
Landing
auto docking
manual docking
also have EVA done in past mission
all China now needs is a Lunar lander.
announcer talking now about apollo 17
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Just thinking out loud,
13 days in space
Landing
auto docking
manual docking
all China now needs is a Lunar lander.
talking now about apollo 17
Need a TLI and return to Earth confirmed. More Apollo 8 than 11 or 17.
Russia (Soviets) had several space stations, yet never got a human close to the Moon.
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Just thinking out loud,
13 days in space
Landing
auto docking
manual docking
all China now needs is a Lunar lander.
talking now about apollo 17
Huh? What do you mean? The Russians have the same capability and they haven't been to the moon. Having a lander still doesn't mean they can get to the moon. No large rocket or upperstage.
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Jing Haipeng is out...
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Liu Wang is out...
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Jing Haipeng is out...
Looks in pretty good condition. Especially as there aren't 1/2 dozen people constantly hovering around him afterward.
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Liu Wang is out...
Happy astronaut!
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Excellent screen captures Satori... many thanks!
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L Wang is last out..
relay story of how she is a pilot who remained calm when flying into birds....one reason she might have been chosen for this mission.
she has a major smile.....
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Liu Yang is out!...
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Mission completed successfully!
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...and that's all from me guys! Have a good night!!
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...and that's all from me guys! Have a good night!!
Thanks for the excellent coverage!
And congratulations to China for this succesfull mission - looking forward to the next time we have 2 manned space stations in orbit!
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Congratulations China on a most excellent mission.
Thanks very much Rui et. al. for the most excellent coverage.
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Excellent coverage guys. I won't go off topic and moan about why I was unable to be around. Aaron and some of the other UK know what I mean!
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[China] Landing of Shenzhou 9 in China
Published on Jun 28, 2012 by SpaceVidsNet
The Shenzhou 9 spacecraft successfully touched down in the Inner Mongolia region of China today June 29th at 02:02 UTC. Touch down was quite rough with the space capsule toppling over itself and stopping on its side however this is normal and was planned and the crew are reporting to be fine.
Video also includes the separation of the re-entry module from the propulsion module and re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere.
The crew will egress after they have adapted to the gravity of Earth. Their mission a complete success as they became the first Chinese manned craft to automatically dock and enter the Tiangong-1 Spacelab. They also then performed the first manual docking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh0ws7EJgQ4
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...and that's all from me guys! Have a good night!!
Thanks very much for the updates/caps!
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Looking at the videos of the landing, it appears that maybe only 1 of the terminal braking thrusters fired, the one opposite the descent velocity/drift vector (ie- upwind). That probably helped the end-over-end flip on landing. (The distant images of the capsule after landing appears to support that - only one quarter of the shiny aft end looks darker/blackened.)
Oh, and definitely congrats to China for a successful mission!
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Checking Radiation levels and will cover shields
Met ship in ten min.
Toxic propellent levels.
If there were a radiation danger, I'd be both worried and very surprised. :D
IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
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Live briefing on now about mission
http://www.cctv-9.com/2005/default.asp?videoName=live&videoSpeed=300
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Checking Radiation levels and will cover shields
Met ship in ten min.
Toxic propellent levels.
If there were a radiation danger, I'd be both worried and very surprised. :D
IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
I think so, you mean the Cesium source sends out gamma rays that are reflected off the ground and received by a sensor to determine the altitude right? This was actually one of the last components of the Shenzhou that was imported (but the Chinese started to build them by themselves since SZ-8).
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Checking Radiation levels and will cover shields
Met ship in ten min.
Toxic propellent levels.
If there were a radiation danger, I'd be both worried and very surprised. :D
IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
I think so, you mean the Cesium source sends out gamma rays that are reflected off the ground and received by a sensor to determine the altitude right? This was actually one of the last components of the Shenzhou that was imported (but the Chinese started to build them by themselves since SZ-8).
Yes. Was wondering if the Chinese is using something else instead.
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Photos of the landing:
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The landed capsule:
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Crew egress:
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And the whole crew after landing:
(All photos from Xinhua News via http://www.9ifly.cn/thread-9647-71-1.html (http://www.9ifly.cn/thread-9647-71-1.html))
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The landed capsule:
Certainly does appear that only one of the retros fired on landing.
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Crew egress:
Thanks. They all look alert, healthy, and happy!
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Still more photos of landing processing:
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Has someone seen the exactly landing coordinates?
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IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
I think so, you mean the Cesium source sends out gamma rays that are reflected off the ground and received by a sensor to determine the altitude right? This was actually one of the last components of the Shenzhou that was imported (but the Chinese started to build them by themselves since SZ-8).
Meanwhile people from TsNII RTK in St.Petersburg, Russia, believe SZ-9 still used their Kaktus-2V gamma altimeter sixteen of which has been ordered by the Chinese. Of course they may be wrong.
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Has someone seen the exactly landing coordinates?
I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PduaBWVSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PduaBWVSE)
that shows the last predicted landing site coordinates as 111.295 degrees East and 42.267 degrees North.
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IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
I think so, you mean the Cesium source sends out gamma rays that are reflected off the ground and received by a sensor to determine the altitude right? This was actually one of the last components of the Shenzhou that was imported (but the Chinese started to build them by themselves since SZ-8).
Meanwhile people from TsNII RTK in St.Petersburg, Russia, believe SZ-9 still used their Kaktus-2V gamma altimeter sixteen of which has been ordered by the Chinese. Of course they may be wrong.
That would be interesting....but for reference here's an article from CASIC (http://www.casic.com.cn/n113/n191/c520209/content.html) that indicates that the made-in-China gamma altimeter has been in work for a decade: it was first tested in 2004, then was used as a back-up unit on the Shenzhou 7 mission, and finally switched to the prime position on Shenzhou 8.
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Liu Yang is out!...
This video capture moment deserves repeating. Unlike the (obviously posed) photos with the flowers taken shortly after, this seems entirely genuine!
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Regarding the video:
Is it normal for a Soyuz descend module to rotate so heavily under the chute?
And are the landing rockets supposed to fire so late?
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Regarding the video:
Is it normal for a Soyuz descend module to rotate so heavily under the chute?
And are the landing rockets supposed to fire so late?
Yes, it's a single bridle (wouldn't call it that fast a rotation, though),
and yes, they fire around 1-2m above the surface.
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Still more photos of landing processing:
Thanks for the photos!
Very happy for China. This is not an easy endeavour to be in, and they pulled it off extremely well.
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According to online sources that I checked this morning - BBC Online and Spaceflight Now - the landing time for Shenzhou 9 was either 3 or 5 minutes past the hour. However, when I was watching the descent the onscreen timer appeared to show landing at around 1m 16s past the hour. Then again, my sight is lousy.
Can anyone clarify this, please? And do we have times for the OM separation and retrofire, please?
A very pleasing mission, the Chinese should be delighted. Now for Shenzhou 10!
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Still more photos of landing processing:
Thanks for the photos!
Very happy for China. This is not an easy endeavour to be in, and they pulled it off extremely well.
Absolutely. I wasn't able to follow the landing live, but was delighted to see they had landed in an apparently uneventful fashion.
It is hard not be impressed by the way China are knocking off several key objectives and milestones each time they fly. What they are doing is not easy or without risk, but they do make it look routine.
Roll on SZ-10.
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It is hard not be impressed by the way China are knocking off several key objectives and milestones each time they fly. What they are doing is not easy or without risk, but they do make it look routine.
Ditto. They were quite clear about their mission goals in advance and they ticked them off one after the other. Their technology -- and their public relations strategy -- is very respectable.
Can we open a thread discussing aspects of a Shenzhou docking to ISS?
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The landed capsule:
Certainly does appear that only one of the retros fired on landing.
Doesn't this suggestion deserve some more serious attention?
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Is the heat shield ejected before touchdown? Seems the underside of the capsule is rather clean.
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Can we open a thread discussing aspects of a Shenzhou docking to ISS?
You forgot the smilie at the end of that post ;)
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Thanks to everybody here for the great coverage and the pics, videos and links!
Is the heat shield ejected before touchdown? Seems the underside of the capsule is rather clean.
Yes, just like Soyuz, the heat shield is ejected to uncover the gamma ray altimeter and the braking rockets.
For Soyuz, the heat shield is ejected at about 3 km altitude, IIRC, but I don't know at which altitude this is done for Shenzhou. Maybe somebody else here knows.
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The landed capsule:
Certainly does appear that only one of the retros fired on landing.
Doesn't this suggestion deserve some more serious attention?
Judging by the footage, I come to a diffrent conclusion; some lateral movement during touchdown, combined with landing on a slope, caused the DM to flip. Even after landing, resting on the ground, it was almost upside down.
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The landed capsule:
Certainly does appear that only one of the retros fired on landing.
Doesn't this suggestion deserve some more serious attention?
The explanation is probably quite simple.
The descent module is swinging as it comes down and just before landing it is at a slight angle to the ground and moving in relation to the ground, both in the direction it will role on landing. Therefore, the retro rockets gave an additional extra push in the direction it roles. I heard and saw nothing on the live feed to suggest Mission Control were concerned.
I conclude from the above that the retros probably worked normally and it was only how the landing was perceived by our eyesight that suggested something was not quite correct.
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Has someone seen the exactly landing coordinates?
I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PduaBWVSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PduaBWVSE)
that shows the last predicted landing site coordinates as 111.295 degrees East and 42.267 degrees North.
Thanks to 9ifly member darklighter, we've probably got the most precise landing co-ordinates to date: 42.263327 N, 111.278869 E. :o
(http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=9647&pid=207807&fromuid=19646 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=9647&pid=207807&fromuid=19646))
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IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
I think so, you mean the Cesium source sends out gamma rays that are reflected off the ground and received by a sensor to determine the altitude right? This was actually one of the last components of the Shenzhou that was imported (but the Chinese started to build them by themselves since SZ-8).
Meanwhile people from TsNII RTK in St.Petersburg, Russia, believe SZ-9 still used their Kaktus-2V gamma altimeter sixteen of which has been ordered by the Chinese. Of course they may be wrong.
Considering this picture posted by Galactic Penguin, I hope for those operators that SZ-9 wasn't using a Cesium altimeter. I know the Russians always steer well clear of the bottom side of the descent module.
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...and do we have the precise times of the modules separation, entry interface, chutes deploy, shield deploy and landing?
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Congratulations, China, on a successful and safe mission. :)
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Is the heat shield ejected before touchdown? Seems the underside of the capsule is rather clean.
Right about 2:10 on the landing video you can see it ejected in the infra-red view.
I would really like to make notice of the spectacular landing video that was provided. All the way from re-entry to the landing "roll out" it was better than anything I've ever seen outside a shuttle landing. For all the secrecy and media spin that is inherent in their system of government the Chinese have proven to be very adept at providing some great live images. Great stuff.
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[quote author=Yoxonaut link=topic=27391.msg923686#msg923686
The explanation is probably quite simple.
The descent module is swinging as it comes down and just before landing it is at a slight angle to the ground and moving in relation to the ground, both in the direction it will role on landing. Therefore, the retro rockets gave an additional extra push in the direction it roles. I heard and saw nothing on the live feed to suggest Mission Control were concerned.
I conclude from the above that the retros probably worked normally and it was only how the landing was perceived by our eyesight that suggested something was not quite correct.
[/quote]
I looped the superb-quality video about 25 times and have reached the same conclusion, the end-over-end was induced by the contact attitude and horizontal rate. Thanks, Yoxonaut! Please hang around here and add more!
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So we can be sure that all soft landing motors succesfully fired?
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I never saw the SZ reentry vehicle purging spent propelant; I even got concerned when it ocurred. Does Soyuz does it so? I never wondered if the hydrogen peroxide were to be purged in the case of Soyuz landings.
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Is the heat shield ejected before touchdown? Seems the underside of the capsule is rather clean.
Right about 2:10 on the landing video you can see it ejected in the infra-red view.
Yeah, it gave me a moment of pause before I realized what it was. Quite an incredible video capture to see that live in IR.
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I would really like to make notice of the spectacular landing video that was provided. All the way from re-entry to the landing "roll out" it was better than anything I've ever seen outside a shuttle landing
+1
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It is hard not be impressed by the way China are knocking off several key objectives and milestones each time they fly. What they are doing is not easy or without risk, but they do make it look routine.
Ditto. They were quite clear about their mission goals in advance and they ticked them off one after the other. Their technology -- and their public relations strategy -- is very respectable.
Can we open a thread discussing aspects of a Shenzhou docking to ISS?
Re ISS and Shenzhou, I didn't realise that there is a science fiction or fantasy thread on here .........
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...and do we have the precise times of the modules separation, entry interface, chutes deploy, shield deploy and landing?
According to the upper right corner of the attached image, landing time was 02:02:36.760 UTC (10:02:36.760 Beijing). I am not 100% certain of the number "6" in the time.
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Can we open a thread discussing aspects of a Shenzhou docking to ISS?
[/quote]
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28465.0
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...and do we have the precise times of the modules separation, entry interface, chutes deploy, shield deploy and landing?
According to the upper right corner of the attached image, landing time was 02:02:36.760 UTC (10:02:36.760 Beijing). I am not 100% certain of the number "6" in the time.
But the title reads "Landing Location Prediction".
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...and do we have the precise times of the modules separation, entry interface, chutes deploy, shield deploy and landing?
According to the clock on the live feed from Mission Control the landing time was 10:01:16 Beijing Time (02:01:16 UTC)
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According to the clock on the live feed from Mission Control the landing time was 10:01:16 Beijing Time (02:01:16 UTC)
I have also seen time 10:01:16 on webcast, but I think that it is incorrect.
For determination of actual landing time I have used this (http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7679:shenzhou-9-returns-to-earth-safe-and-sound-&catid=1:latest) video. At 00:52 in the video we see 09:51:00 time, at 03:12 - 09:53:20, at 05:32 - 09:55:40, at 06:32 - 09:56:40, at 12:34 - 10:02:43, at 13:51 - 10:04:00. You can compare these times.
Landing has occured at 12:40 in the video, so it is 10:02:49.
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Flash of the retros reflecting on the parachute at 10:02:50.060
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PduaBWVSE
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Well done China! Thanks again for the needed kick in the butt, we need it to keep motivated… ;D
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Thank you Anik and WM68 for clarifying the landing time.
Now I am dreaming of there being times times of the OM separation and retrofire being "out there" somewhere, please! The CCTV coverage in English did not show the OM separation, just noted that it had taken place.
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Having a lander still doesn't mean they can get to the moon. No large rocket or upperstage.
They shouldn't need anything bigger than the equivalent of a Centaur if they use a refuelable lander and put it through TLI mostly dry. The Long March 2F second stage looks large enough, but of course it is too large to be launched fully fueled, so it would have to be modified to refuel in LEO first.
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Having a lander still doesn't mean they can get to the moon. No large rocket or upperstage.
They shouldn't need anything bigger than the equivalent of a Centaur if they use a refuelable lander and put it through TLI mostly dry. The Long March 2F second stage looks large enough, but of course it is too large to be launched fully fueled, so it would have to be modified to refuel in LEO first.
Mike Griffin said he was worried that the Chinese could land on the Moon with their existing launch vehicles. Strange that the US can't. ::)
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Having a lander still doesn't mean they can get to the moon. No large rocket or upperstage.
They shouldn't need anything bigger than the equivalent of a Centaur if they use a refuelable lander and put it through TLI mostly dry. The Long March 2F second stage looks large enough, but of course it is too large to be launched fully fueled, so it would have to be modified to refuel in LEO first.
Mike Griffin said he was worried that the Chinese could land on the Moon with their existing launch vehicles. Strange that the US can't. ::)
The strange thing is that the Chinese are thinking of building a 100-tonne-to-LEO class heavy lift launcher, using multiple engines of the RD-180 class. (see the Chinese section for details) ::)
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Photos of the SZ-9 descent module arriving in Beijing (which would be turned over to CAST for post-landing processing):
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IIRC the Soyuz got a radioactive Cesium altimeter. Does the Senzhou-9 have this device?
I think so, you mean the Cesium source sends out gamma rays that are reflected off the ground and received by a sensor to determine the altitude right? This was actually one of the last components of the Shenzhou that was imported (but the Chinese started to build them by themselves since SZ-8).
Meanwhile people from TsNII RTK in St.Petersburg, Russia, believe SZ-9 still used their Kaktus-2V gamma altimeter sixteen of which has been ordered by the Chinese. Of course they may be wrong.
Considering this picture posted by Galactic Penguin, I hope for those operators that SZ-9 wasn't using a Cesium altimeter. I know the Russians always steer well clear of the bottom side of the descent module.
If you look closely at the picture that you posted, there is a metal cover installed right near the elbow of the operator in orange clothes who takes the camera from the guy in white. This cover was clearly installed after landing, as it is not there on the pics that were made a little earlier, immediately after landing. This covers the Cesium altimeter. So, hopefully, the operators should be safe. In the pictures without the cover, the international sign for radiation can clearly be seen there in this location.
This picture here is quite interesting:
Obviously, the guys are trying to upright the DM. The radiation sign is clearly visible on the bottom of the DM. The cover seems to have fallen off, as it is lying on the ground, with one of the guys even pointing at it. You can almost hear him shouting: "Hey! Wait, the cover has fallen off!" ;)
(On other pics you can see that at least one of the cover's clamps was not installed correctly.)
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I think China bought an old Soyuz spacecraft to the Russians but I don't remember which model.
It was a Soyuz TM.
A bit late to follow this up. I was told at the time by someone who was talking with people inside Energiya that the Soyuz was stripped of all internal equipment before it was shipped to the Chinese: so they only got the shell.
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Another interesting detail:
One of the design changes in the Shenzhou descent module seems to be the relocation of the four landing rockets.
Originally, the four rockets were installed in four separate locations, forming the four corners of an imaginary rectangle. See the first photo, showing SZ-5 after landing.
Now, the landing rockets are installed in two opposite locations as pairs. See the second photo, showing SZ-9.
This change must have happened after SZ-7. Although I have seen only a quite dark low res pic of the SZ-7 DM underside, it seems to confirm that SZ-7 had the same configuration of the landing rockets as SZ-5. See the third photo, showing SZ-7.
Since SZ-8 and SZ-9 are supposed to be quite similar, I would suppose that SZ-8 had the same layout of the landing rocket installation as SZ-9, but I have not seen any pics of SZ-8 to prove it.
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Thank you Anik and WM68 for clarifying the landing time.
Now I am dreaming of there being times times of the OM separation and retrofire being "out there" somewhere, please! The CCTV coverage in English did not show the OM separation, just noted that it had taken place.
Orbital module separation time: 6/29/2012 01:16:06.520 UTC
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If you look closely at the picture that you posted, there is a metal cover installed right near the elbow of the operator in orange clothes who takes the camera from the guy in white. This cover was clearly installed after landing, as it is not there on the pics that were made a little earlier, immediately after landing. This covers the Cesium altimeter. So, hopefully, the operators should be safe. In the pictures without the cover, the international sign for radiation can clearly be seen there in this location.
This picture here is quite interesting:
Obviously, the guys are trying to upright the DM. The radiation sign is clearly visible on the bottom of the DM. The cover seems to have fallen off, as it is lying on the ground, with one of the guys even pointing at it. You can almost hear him shouting: "Hey! Wait, the cover has fallen off!" ;)
(On other pics you can see that at least one of the cover's clamps was not installed correctly.)
Thanks for pointing that out. That does indeed seem to explain everything. (Using Cesium altimeters or not, and the closeness of recovery crew to the bottom.) :)
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Having a lander still doesn't mean they can get to the moon. No large rocket or upperstage.
They shouldn't need anything bigger than the equivalent of a Centaur if they use a refuelable lander and put it through TLI mostly dry. The Long March 2F second stage looks large enough, but of course it is too large to be launched fully fueled, so it would have to be modified to refuel in LEO first.
Mike Griffin said he was worried that the Chinese could land on the Moon with their existing launch vehicles. Strange that the US can't. ::)
The strange thing is that the Chinese are thinking of building a 100-tonne-to-LEO class heavy lift launcher, using multiple engines of the RD-180 class. (see the Chinese section for details) ::)
Strange thing also is that powerpoints are cheap ;). By the same merit, the US is "thinking about" interstellar space travel (i.e. the DoD's 100 year starship).
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A yes, the "PowerPoint rocket race" - the most competitive race of them all. ;D
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The objects catalogued as 2012-032C, D, F and G are all clearly what I call the separation motor caps from the CZ-2F/G second stage. These four objects are all showing as having decayed from orbit on June 18.
Object 2012-032E is still showing as being in orbit but its initial orbit was (Epoch Jun 21.92): incl - 42.80 deg, period - 90.95 minutes, perigee - 263 km, apogee - 379 km. This orbit is totally different from the eccentric orbits for the four separation motor caps.
The orbit for 2012-032E is virtually the same as the orbit for Shenzhou 9 after its first manoeuvre, so I am calling it "Shenzhou 9 debris".
Any suggestions what it might prepresent, please?
Approaching two days after the Shenzhou 9 recovery and USSTRATCOM has yet to catalogue the orbital module which will still be in orbit.
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I have been looking at the orbital data for Tiangong 1 and Shenzhou 9 covering the period between the final undocking and the crew’s return to Earth. Jonathan McDowell reported earlier on here that the final undocking had been on June 28 at 09:22 Beijing Time = 01:22 UT.
The final set of orbital data for Tiangong before the undocking to be issued was (times are in decimals of a day UT): Jun 27.82, 327-336 km. Then after the undocking Tiangong performed a small orbital manoeuvre:
Pre-manoeuvre Jun 28.51 330-333 km
Post-manoeuvre Jun 28.55 335-338 km
No further manoeuvres are apparent through to the end of June 30. We can expect further manoeuvres in the next week or so to raise the orbit significantly, as happened after the Shenzhou 8 return.
Now to Shenzhou 9 and things aren’t quite so clear. The final orbit to be issued before the final undocking dated back to Jun 26.54. After the undocking the following orbital data were issued:
Jun 28.38 294-371 km
Jun 28.45 334-342 km
Jun 28.57 334-355 km
Jun 28.62 333-347 km
Jun 28.83 334-355 km
The first or these orbits is clearly wrong if we are to believe any of the remaining orbits! The second and third orbits suggest that after the undocking Shenzhou also raised itsorbit twice, by a larger amount than did Tiangong. If the third and fifth orbits – which are consistent – are to be believed then the fourth orbit is also in error: maybe it was “prepared in advance” and then overtaken by the manoeuvre to 355 km.
When the Shenzhou 9 orbital module is finally catalogued I would expect that it is in a 334-355 km orbit (less a bit for orbital decay since it separated: of course, the is also the delta-V of the separation!).
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Another interesting detail:
One of the design changes in the Shenzhou descent module seems to be the relocation of the four landing rockets.
Originally, the four rockets were installed in four separate locations, forming the four corners of an imaginary rectangle. See the first photo, showing SZ-5 after landing.
Now, the landing rockets are installed in two opposite locations as pairs. See the second photo, showing SZ-9.
This change must have happened after SZ-7. Although I have seen only a quite dark low res pic of the SZ-7 DM underside, it seems to confirm that SZ-7 had the same configuration of the landing rockets as SZ-5. See the third photo, showing SZ-7.
Since SZ-8 and SZ-9 are supposed to be quite similar, I would suppose that SZ-8 had the same layout of the landing rocket installation as SZ-9, but I have not seen any pics of SZ-8 to prove it.
Here's one picture of SZ-8 DM. You can see the same layout of landing rocket installation as SZ-9.
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2011/11-17/75075.shtml (http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2011/11-17/75075.shtml)
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The Shenzhou capsule was re-opened on July 1, and items inside were recovered, including experiment samples, medical samples, and postal items. Samples include Chinese pu’er tea, micro-chips and plant seeds.
Video: http://english.cntv.cn/program/newshour/20120701/104907.shtml
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The objects catalogued as 2012-032C, D, F and G are all clearly what I call the separation motor caps from the CZ-2F/G second stage. These four objects are all showing as having decayed from orbit on June 18.
Object 2012-032E is still showing as being in orbit but its initial orbit was (Epoch Jun 21.92): incl - 42.80 deg, period - 90.95 minutes, perigee - 263 km, apogee - 379 km. This orbit is totally different from the eccentric orbits for the four separation motor caps.
The orbit for 2012-032E is virtually the same as the orbit for Shenzhou 9 after its first manoeuvre, so I am calling it "Shenzhou 9 debris".
Any suggestions what it might prepresent, please?
Approaching two days after the Shenzhou 9 recovery and USSTRATCOM has yet to catalogue the orbital module which will still be in orbit.
Interesting.
I'm not convinced the first TLE for E is the same object as the later ones - it might really be G. That leaves an object which appears June 21 (but probably separated earlier) and decays slowly. Something that came off during the rendezvous burns?
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The objects catalogued as 2012-032C, D, F and G are all clearly what I call the separation motor caps from the CZ-2F/G second stage. These four objects are all showing as having decayed from orbit on June 18.
Object 2012-032E is still showing as being in orbit but its initial orbit was (Epoch Jun 21.92): incl - 42.80 deg, period - 90.95 minutes, perigee - 263 km, apogee - 379 km. This orbit is totally different from the eccentric orbits for the four separation motor caps.
The orbit for 2012-032E is virtually the same as the orbit for Shenzhou 9 after its first manoeuvre, so I am calling it "Shenzhou 9 debris".
Any suggestions what it might prepresent, please?
Approaching two days after the Shenzhou 9 recovery and USSTRATCOM has yet to catalogue the orbital module which will still be in orbit.
Interesting.
I'm not convinced the first TLE for E is the same object as the later ones - it might really be G. That leaves an object which appears June 21 (but probably separated earlier) and decays slowly. Something that came off during the rendezvous burns?
I didn't want to over-complicate things! The first two elsets for 32E suggested that it was a separation motor cover but then F and G were catalogued which were clearly covers and after a gap of a few days elsets appeared for E showing it in the orbit which I quoted.
I agree that the first orbits issued for E probably relate to F or G - after all, they were catalogued significantly after C, D and E. The decay rate of E is quite slow from the TLEs.
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Another interesting detail:
One of the design changes in the Shenzhou descent module seems to be the relocation of the four landing rockets.
Originally, the four rockets were installed in four separate locations, forming the four corners of an imaginary rectangle. See the first photo, showing SZ-5 after landing.
Now, the landing rockets are installed in two opposite locations as pairs. See the second photo, showing SZ-9.
This change must have happened after SZ-7. Although I have seen only a quite dark low res pic of the SZ-7 DM underside, it seems to confirm that SZ-7 had the same configuration of the landing rockets as SZ-5. See the third photo, showing SZ-7.
Since SZ-8 and SZ-9 are supposed to be quite similar, I would suppose that SZ-8 had the same layout of the landing rocket installation as SZ-9, but I have not seen any pics of SZ-8 to prove it.
Here's one picture of SZ-8 DM. You can see the same layout of landing rocket installation as SZ-9.
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2011/11-17/75075.shtml (http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2011/11-17/75075.shtml)
Thanks! This confirms my supposition.
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The landed capsule:
Certainly does appear that only one of the retros fired on landing.
Doesn't this suggestion deserve some more serious attention?
Judging by the footage, I come to a diffrent conclusion; some lateral movement during touchdown, combined with landing on a slope, caused the DM to flip. Even after landing, resting on the ground, it was almost upside down.
I just watched the landing again and the roll is quite spectacular.
How narrow is the ceasium altimeter? Could one side of the DM touch the surface of a slope, before the altimeter trips?
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Less than 3 cubic meters of space in entry cap.
More room than a Soyuz Announcer says
Officially, Soyuz has 4 cubic meters in the descent module.
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The quoted Soyuz volume may be toal pressurised while the quoted Shenzhou figure may free volume.
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The roll on landing looks entirely plausible given the rate of drift and the slope. It doesn't look to me like you would need any additional torque to tip it.
The angle it's at on the lines means the COG is already close to the leeward side of capsules base when it makes contact and inertia plus any remaining tug from the chutes carries it over.
It looks within the normal range of landing behaviour we see with Soyuz.
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Just noticed in the article covering the landing that the solar arrays are stated to be 0.5 and 1.5 W should that be kW. And over what time? Per hour?
Just a nit. Great article otherwise
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And over what time? Per hour?
If I remember my high school science (oh how long ago that was) the watt is a measure of joules of energy per second, so 1W is one joule per second generated.
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Robert Christy has suggested on the SEESAT mailing list that "A possibility arises that Tiangong and the OM could be station-keeping.
If close enough together, ground-based tracking sensors might not be
able to differentiate them sufficiently to measure the OM orbit, hence
no catalogue number yet."
Personally I doubt this because the orbital modules carried for the Tiangong missions do not have their own propulsion systems (do they?) and unless they have battery power then they have no source of power without their solar panels.
I also doubt that the Chinese would endanger Tiangong 1 by leaving an uncontrollable orbital module close to the station.
Of course, I could easily be wrong! Maybe some visual observations of Tiangong will solve the mystery. As of now, the Shenzhou 9 orbital module is still "missing in action".
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Some pix of the Shenzhou-9 crew welcomed back home
source: http://stock.591hx.com/article/2012-06-30/0000524408s.shtml
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It is approaching a week without the Shenzhou 9 orbital module being catalogued.
Following on from a suggestion by Robert Christy, maybe the two-lines for Tiangong 1 are really for the orbital module and Tiangong has manoeuvred up but this has not been spotted by USSTRATCOM.
Then again, how can you lose something the size of Tiangong in orbit for nearly a week?
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It is approaching a week without the Shenzhou 9 orbital module being catalogued.
Following on from a suggestion by Robert Christy, maybe the two-lines for Tiangong 1 are really for the orbital module and Tiangong has manoeuvred up but this has not been spotted by USSTRATCOM.
Then again, how can you lose something the size of Tiangong in orbit for nearly a week?
But do we know for sure that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module even left in space? It lacks its own solar panels, so it would just be dead junk within hours. I would have assumed that just like a typical Soyuz mission profile, the deorbit burn was made while the orbital module was still attached.
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It is approaching a week without the Shenzhou 9 orbital module being catalogued.
Following on from a suggestion by Robert Christy, maybe the two-lines for Tiangong 1 are really for the orbital module and Tiangong has manoeuvred up but this has not been spotted by USSTRATCOM.
Then again, how can you lose something the size of Tiangong in orbit for nearly a week?
But do we know for sure that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module even left in space? It lacks its own solar panels, so it would just be dead junk within hours. I would have assumed that just like a typical Soyuz mission profile, the deorbit burn was made while the orbital module was still attached.
All Shenzhou orbital modules are discarded before the retrofire burn takes place and the separation velocity from the remaining spacecraft is insufficient to bring it out of orbit.
And yes, like the orbital modules from Shenzhou 7 and 8, the one from 9 would be just another piece of inert space junk after separation.
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It is approaching a week without the Shenzhou 9 orbital module being catalogued.
Following on from a suggestion by Robert Christy, maybe the two-lines for Tiangong 1 are really for the orbital module and Tiangong has manoeuvred up but this has not been spotted by USSTRATCOM.
Then again, how can you lose something the size of Tiangong in orbit for nearly a week?
But do we know for sure that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module even left in space? It lacks its own solar panels, so it would just be dead junk within hours. I would have assumed that just like a typical Soyuz mission profile, the deorbit burn was made while the orbital module was still attached.
All Shenzhou orbital modules are discarded before the retrofire burn takes place and the separation velocity from the remaining spacecraft is insufficient to bring it out of orbit.
And yes, like the orbital modules from Shenzhou 7 and 8, the one from 9 would be just another piece of inert space junk after separation.
I have checked the Space Track data, and I believe that NORAD has misidentify the OM: it could be 2012-032E/38465. The TLE before June 29 might be attributed to a second stage separation motor cover (there are 4 of them, often in eccentric orbits), but those objects that should have been the covers (2012-032C/D/F/G), as well as the second stage (2012-032B) have all re-entered, while 2012-032E is currently tracked in a 259 x 365 km orbit, in consistency with SZ-9's final orbit. My guess is that NORAD simply messed up the identities.
P.S. TG-1 is in a 329 x 340 km orbit.
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Ignoring the orbits for 2012-032E which clealry relate to a separation motor cap, the first set of data for this object in its 15.8 revs/day orbit was epoch 2012 173.91783160 which is Jun 21, so it cannot be the orbital module.
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Ignoring the orbits for 2012-032E which clealry relate to a separation motor cap, the first set of data for this object in its 15.8 revs/day orbit was epoch 2012 173.91783160 which is Jun 21, so it cannot be the orbital module.
I concur with Phillip. 2012-032E elements for June 21, 23, 26 and later are consistent and probably belong to the same object and this is not the OM.
The SZ-9 OM has not been catalogued nor in 2012-032 neither in 2011-053 groups of objects which is strange.
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But do we know for sure that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module even left in space? It lacks its own solar panels, so it would just be dead junk within hours. I would have assumed that just like a typical Soyuz mission profile, the deorbit burn was made while the orbital module was still attached.
All Shenzhou orbital modules are discarded before the retrofire burn takes place and the separation velocity from the remaining spacecraft is insufficient to bring it out of orbit.
And yes, like the orbital modules from Shenzhou 7 and 8, the one from 9 would be just another piece of inert space junk after separation.
Any - yet - the orbital module is not being tracked! If up there, it should be easily tracked.
This is why I'm not taking your "All Shenzhou orbital modules are discarded before the retrofire burn takes place" statement at face value. What is your reference? Just because they have done it in the past does not mean it will always happen.
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I have seen renderings of Shenzhou with solar panels on the orbital module. Is this incorrect?
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I have seen renderings of Shenzhou with solar panels on the orbital module. Is this incorrect?
Back in the early days of the program, the Shenzhou spacecraft features a functioning orbital module that could be flown as a free-flyer spacecraft. So from Shenzhou 1 to Shenzhou 6 the orbital module have solar panels and thrusters for use during the free-flying period. The production version (including Shenzhou 8/9), however, does not feature this design.
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But do we know for sure that the Shenzhou 9 orbital module even left in space? It lacks its own solar panels, so it would just be dead junk within hours. I would have assumed that just like a typical Soyuz mission profile, the deorbit burn was made while the orbital module was still attached.
All Shenzhou orbital modules are discarded before the retrofire burn takes place and the separation velocity from the remaining spacecraft is insufficient to bring it out of orbit.
And yes, like the orbital modules from Shenzhou 7 and 8, the one from 9 would be just another piece of inert space junk after separation.
Any - yet - the orbital module is not being tracked! If up there, it should be easily tracked.
This is why I'm not taking your "All Shenzhou orbital modules are discarded before the retrofire burn takes place" statement at face value. What is your reference? Just because they have done it in the past does not mean it will always happen.
If you check the Chinese statements for the events prior to recovery you will see that the time of the orbital module separating is always prior to retrofire. Therefore the orbital modules are discarded in orbit and until now they have been almost immediately catalogued in orbit.
Why there is the delay in cataloguing the orbital module from Shenzhou 9 is a mystery.
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The Shenzhou 9 orbital module has finally been catalogued: 2012-032H/38550. No two-lines for it yet, though.
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I made an e-mail suggestion to Robert Christy concerning the Shenzhou 9 and Tiangong 1 data and he has confirmed the hypothesis that I put forward.
After the undocking some element sets were issued for Shenzhou 9 with epochs Jun 28.45, 28.57, 28.62 and 28.83. These were not Shenzhou 9 at all but were Tiangong 1 as it started to manoeuvre to a higher orbit. Orbital data for the actual Shenzhou 9 continued to be issued under the catalogue number and international designator of Tiangong 1 until the Shenzhou recovery: then the orbital module data were issued under the Tiangong designator.
So, one mystery solved!
Another mystery is how the sensor and computer systems that the safety of the western world depend upon can mistake the Shenzhou orbital module for Tiangong 1 and how that same system can manage to lose an 8.6 tonnes space station in orbit!!!!
Sleep well ................
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In my last posting I should have said that Tiangong 1 is now in a 91.74 minutes, 354-365 km orbit.
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Now that we have sorted out the mystery of the missing orbital module and space station, there is still the question of the piece of debris 2012-032E/38645.
When this object was originally catalogued on June 17 the initial orbit was 91.46 minutes, 204-488 km but only two element sets were issued which had the same epoch and resulted in the same orbital data. This orbit looked like one of the four separation motor caps.
When it looked as if the object had been decayed from orbit, starting on June 21.98 data were issued which showed that there was an object in a 90.95 minutes, 263-379 km orbit. There is no suggestion that this was the same object catalogued on June 17 - the catalogue number and international designator were re-assigned to a different object for some unknown bureaucratic reason.
One of the intermediate orbits of Shenzhou 9 was 90.29 minutes, 262- 316 km and the similarly of the perigee with 32E suggests that the debris might have come from Shenzhou rather than being CZ-2F debris as USSTRATCOM is calling it. 32E is still in orbit, decaying slowly. So it appears to be a real object.
Any suggestions what this might be? Other than some random debris dropping off Shenzhou, I wonder if there is a cover over the docking system at launch and this is shed once the spacecraft is in orbit - maybe by no more than the docking ring firing forward to its docking position, propelling the cover to a higher-apogee orbit. However this is simply a guess. I am open to suggestions (like "get a life").
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From Xinhua,
U.S. space community reacts warmly to China's Shenzhou-9 launch (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-07/10/c_131704678.htm).
Three Shenzhou-9 astronauts to meet media after two-week rest (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-07/13/c_131713033.htm).
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From Xinhua,
Chinese astronauts healthy after docking mission (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-07/14/c_131714727.htm).
Astronauts in good shape after return (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-07/14/c_131715640.htm).
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From Xinhua,
Chinese astronauts healthy after docking mission (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-07/14/c_131714727.htm).
Astronauts in good shape after return (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-07/14/c_131715640.htm).
I was discussing this with someone on Facebook yesterday evening. Some of the comments made by Liu Yang are suggestive that this might be her only flight. Then again, maybe I am reading too much into the quotes and also something "may have been lost in the translation".
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China only has a few female Astronauts - perhaps they simply want to give each a turn, over time?
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From Xinhua,
Chinese astronauts healthy after docking mission (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-07/14/c_131714727.htm).
Astronauts in good shape after return (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-07/14/c_131715640.htm).
I was discussing this with someone on Facebook yesterday evening. Some of the comments made by Liu Yang are suggestive that this might be her only flight. Then again, maybe I am reading too much into the quotes and also something "may have been lost in the translation".
I read the same thing into Liu Yang's comments. In any event, she is China's Tereshkova and it must be doubtful that she will be allowed to fly again. She is now a 'National Treasure'.
Initial reports suggest a woman is slated to fly on SZ-10 too, and this must be Wang Yaping. She may ultimately be better placed than Liu to fly more than once, as she won't acquire the same status as Liu.
China only has a few female Astronauts - perhaps they simply want to give each a turn, over time?
It is well recorded that China has only two female astronauts, Liu Yang and Captain Wang Yaping. I doubt that Chinese crew selection involves giving candidates 'turns', otherwise Jing Haipeng would not have flown a second time when several colleagues from the 1998 group have not even been assigned to a back-up or support crew.
Crews appear to be selected according to the needs of each mission. I believe this is why Wu Jie and Chen Quan made the back-up crews for earlier missions, but were not in any subsequent prime crews. Presumably they didn't meet the requirements for those missions.
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Thanks for that: I thought there were three candidates! But I have no doubt that in time China will fly a lot more than Russia's only three experienced Cosmonauts...
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Two very nice postal covers about the SZ-9 mission. Pay attention to the number 5. It looks like it shows a taikonaut in a EVA training with a very different EVA suit.
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From Xinhua,
Shenzhou-9 astronauts send thank-you note to Hong Kong ahead of visit (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/09/c_131773758.htm).
Chinese astronauts share feelings with Hong Kong media (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/10/c_131776796.htm).
Hong Kong people share joy of nation's manned space program: Chief Executive (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/10/c_131776920.htm).
Some 1,000 HK students meet Shenzhou-9 astronauts (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/11/c_131778216.htm).
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Interesting report here, that during their visit to Hong Kong the three SZ-9 astronauts have each received rewards from Tsang Hin Chi Manned Space Foundation recognising their efforts.
http://finance.sina.com.cn/leadership/crz/20120812/072612825421.shtml
Apparently they will each receive HK$1.25 milion (GBP103k or USD160k).
In addition the other 18 Chinese astronauts will share HK$2.5 million which amounts to GBP11k/USD16k each.
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From Xinhua,
Shenzhou-9 astronauts send thank-you note to Hong Kong ahead of visit (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/09/c_131773758.htm).
Chinese astronauts share feelings with Hong Kong media (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/10/c_131776796.htm).
Hong Kong people share joy of nation's manned space program: Chief Executive (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/10/c_131776920.htm).
Some 1,000 HK students meet Shenzhou-9 astronauts (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/11/c_131778216.htm).
I have visited the SZ-9 exhibition yesterday, and there are some really interesting things there, including:
- the SZ-9 descent module and main landing parachute
- Liu Yang's intra-vehicular suit
- Several dozen photos from SZ-9 and other previous missions, including more than twenty hi-res in-flight photos of the SZ-9 mission (!).
- Other flight equipment
I have took quite a few pictures, will upload them later today.
GPS
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Were there any SZ-9 souvenirs on sale? Any sign of the mission patch?
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From Xinhua,
Shenzhou-9 astronauts send thank-you note to Hong Kong ahead of visit (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/09/c_131773758.htm).
Chinese astronauts share feelings with Hong Kong media (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/10/c_131776796.htm).
Hong Kong people share joy of nation's manned space program: Chief Executive (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/10/c_131776920.htm).
Some 1,000 HK students meet Shenzhou-9 astronauts (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-08/11/c_131778216.htm).
I have visited the SZ-9 exhibition yesterday, and there are some really interesting things there, including:
- the SZ-9 descent module and main landing parachute
- Liu Yang's intra-vehicular suit
- Several dozen photos from SZ-9 and other previous missions, including more than twenty hi-res in-flight photos of the SZ-9 mission (!).
- Other flight equipment
I have took quite a few pictures, will upload them later today.
GPS
As promised, here are the photos:
Firstly, the descent module of Shenzhou 9:
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The long-awaited in-flight photos...
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The long-awaited in-flight photos...
What, no chopsticks?
(No offense intended to anyone. I've attempted to use them when eating Chinese food, but I'm not very good at it.)
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For the likes of patch collectors like Jacques: ;)
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Liu Yang's ascent/entry suit.
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Some Earth photos taken by the Chinese astronauts (the first one is from SZ-5, the next two from SZ-6, the next two from SZ-7 and the remaining ones from SZ-9):
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Other equipment shown:
First two photos: the main descent parachute
Next four photos: food packages, rescue pack and medical tools
Last photo: Liu Yang's "penguin suit"
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Did you by any chance make a hi-res photo of this:
a new space station design, first time seen in HK,aug 2012
(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28142.30)
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It seems that Liu Wang will be visiting the Berlin Air Show on Friday:-
http://www.collectspace.com/sightings/
I understand that this is connected to the return of the IAF flag which, having previously flown on Soyuz, Shuttle and ISS, was brought back from Tiangong 1, by the crew of Shenzhou 9.
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Did you by any chance make a hi-res photo of this:
a new space station design, first time seen in HK,aug 2012
(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28142.30)
Macau SZ-9 exhibition
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Is there any information or announcements, if the SZ-9 equipment will be exhibited at the China Airshow in Zhuhai in November?
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I've a question about the Shenzhou 9 patch:
Is someone able to translate the Chinese words at the top of the patch?
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I've a question about the Shenzhou 9 patch:
Is someone able to translate the Chinese words at the top of the patch?
You mean this one (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27391.msg943364#msg943364)? It reads: "First (Chinese) manned rendezvous and docking mission".
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Yes. Thank you very much.
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This is a curious image, which I initially thought showed the SZ-9 back-up crew arriving at the launch centre on 9th June.
However on closer review, it is Nie Haisheng, Liu Wang and Wang Yaping, i.e. two back-ups and one prime crew member.
Does this raise a question over whether the final crews were not actually settled at this stage?
Do we know if the Chinese fly their prime and back-up crews on different aircraft, like the Russians?
It may be that they all flew together and simply piled off the plane in a random sequence, but then we do have a 'crew' here Commander, Docking pilot and woman, so it doesn't look like an arbitrary disembarkation.
Thoughts anyone? :-\
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A friend - Jorge Cartes from Spain - wants to create a most accurate artwork of the Shenzhou 9 patch.
It seems that he still has problems with the top legend of the patch.
He wrote me:
"we still have a problem. The translate to chinese of "First manned rendezvous and docking mission" is this: 首次载人航天交会对接和坞特派团
So far away from the real thing... We need that some one who speak chinese could translate us it. Do you know some one? (I really only need the "letters" to draw them)"
Who is able to help him?
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A friend - Jorge Cartes from Spain - wants to create a most accurate artwork of the Shenzhou 9 patch.
It seems that he still has problems with the top legend of the patch.
He wrote me:
"we still have a problem. The translate to chinese of "First manned rendezvous and docking mission" is this: 首次载人航天交会对接和坞特派团
So far away from the real thing... We need that some one who speak chinese could translate us it. Do you know some one? (I really only need the "letters" to draw them)"
Who is able to help him?
Trust me, those online translators are not that reliable.... ;)
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Galactic Penguin SST can you please contact Jorge Cartes (he created several Space Shuttle ans ISS patches) via [email protected]?
He needs a good view of the phrase on original chinese, without translation.
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A friend - Jorge Cartes from Spain - wants to create a most accurate artwork of the Shenzhou 9 patch.
It seems that he still has problems with the top legend of the patch.
He wrote me:
"we still have a problem. The translate to chinese of "First manned rendezvous and docking mission" is this: 首次载人航天交会对接和坞特派团
So far away from the real thing... We need that some one who speak chinese could translate us it. Do you know some one? (I really only need the "letters" to draw them)"
Who is able to help him?
"First manned rendezvous and docking mission" in chinese is :"首次载人交会对接任务"
for example,a official topic:
http://zhuanti.spacechina.com/n240328/index.html
我国首次载人交会对接任务圆满成功
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From Xinhua, Shenzhou-9 crew honored with medals (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-10/03/c_131886759.htm).
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Shenzou 9 crewmember Liu Wang joins in on meeting of heads of ESA and China Manned Space Agency.
8 october 2012
Wang Zhaoyao, Director General of the China Manned Space Agency, accompanied by the first Chinese female astronaut, Liu Yang, met ESA Director General Jean-Jacques Dordain at the Agency’s headquarters in Paris on 8 October.
Mr Dordain congratulated Mr Wang on the successful Shenzhou-9 mission, stating how impressed he had been when learning of the flawless automatic and manual docking with Tiangong-1.
Following earlier discussions, the two sides have agreed to continue talking about possible avenues for cooperation between ESA and the China Manned Space Agency (CMSA).
A delegation from CMSA and the Chinese Astronaut Centre will visit the European Astronaut Centre in Cologne in the near future with a view to sharing experiences in astronaut training.
Another potential area of cooperation could be joint scientific experiments carried out on the Tiangong space laboratory.
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMSHVERI7H_index_0.html (http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMSHVERI7H_index_0.html)
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There is coverage of Liu Yang's presentation at IAC 2012, last week, here:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfnpy_2vYcE&feature=relmfu
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From Xinhua, Ceremony held to honor Shenzhou-9 crew (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-10/29/c_131938183.htm).
Awarding ceremony held to honor Shenzhou-9 crew in Beijing (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-10/30/c_131938466.htm)
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Just wondering ..... was a mass announced for Shenzhou 9? I know that SZ 8 was said to be 8,082 kg.