Quote from: RonM on 09/19/2014 05:06 PMQuote from: aero on 09/19/2014 04:58 PMHere is a paper written to describe the Casimir energy between a metallic plate and a dielectric plate within a cavity. The configuration is somewhat similar to the Tapered Cavity tested at EagleWorks. http://math.scichina.com:8081/sciAe/EN/abstract/abstract377962.shtml#I wonder if someone can help interpret this paper. To me, it does not seem consistent with what has been published elsewhere, in particular I see an unfamiliar term Quotewhere -pi/(24a^2) is the Casimir force between two ideal conducting plates separated by a.But also this paper is developed in a reference system where c=1, h-bar=1. That is a common system but how does one convert the results into standard units of measure. I forgot, if I ever knew how.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_lighthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_constantWell yes I know that, but the author uses "1" in the equations derivation for each of these terms so where do I substitute the real values back into the end result to get real measurable values? Am I forced to carefully follow the derivation through to the end then know where the c's and h-bars go? (numerator, denominator, power, etc.)

Quote from: aero on 09/19/2014 04:58 PMHere is a paper written to describe the Casimir energy between a metallic plate and a dielectric plate within a cavity. The configuration is somewhat similar to the Tapered Cavity tested at EagleWorks. http://math.scichina.com:8081/sciAe/EN/abstract/abstract377962.shtml#I wonder if someone can help interpret this paper. To me, it does not seem consistent with what has been published elsewhere, in particular I see an unfamiliar term Quotewhere -pi/(24a^2) is the Casimir force between two ideal conducting plates separated by a.But also this paper is developed in a reference system where c=1, h-bar=1. That is a common system but how does one convert the results into standard units of measure. I forgot, if I ever knew how.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_lighthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_constant

Here is a paper written to describe the Casimir energy between a metallic plate and a dielectric plate within a cavity. The configuration is somewhat similar to the Tapered Cavity tested at EagleWorks. http://math.scichina.com:8081/sciAe/EN/abstract/abstract377962.shtml#I wonder if someone can help interpret this paper. To me, it does not seem consistent with what has been published elsewhere, in particular I see an unfamiliar term Quotewhere -pi/(24a^2) is the Casimir force between two ideal conducting plates separated by a.But also this paper is developed in a reference system where c=1, h-bar=1. That is a common system but how does one convert the results into standard units of measure. I forgot, if I ever knew how.

where -pi/(24a^2) is the Casimir force between two ideal conducting plates separated by a.

@Rodal Thanks for that. So what the paper shows is a very different Casimir force resulting from the containment vessel, (the cavity). But it doesn't show any reason to expect an unbalanced force giving the thrust. Ok, I'll keep looking if something else strikes me. But it seems essential to include the RF waves in the equations somehow. I have found a way to do that (I think) but it requires some public domain software and 100 hours on a super computer. (Not very supper, only 1000 processors) still, that is 250 times more processors than I have on my machine, so the calculations would take me what, about 1000 days?But I wouldn't know how to set up the models anyway.

i don't know for sure but i assume that the thinking is that once you have the force manifest in space you can grab it and manipulate it. if it were negative if you push it it comes toward you. So you'd presumably push on it from the direction you want to go and then it would react by moving opposite of the force you applied. even better if it was subject to amplification.

I am not convinced that the conventional force fields and inertial forces involved have been adequately investigated to ascertain that they are not responsible for the measured thrust forces.

QuoteI am not convinced that the conventional force fields and inertial forces involved have been adequately investigated to ascertain that they are not responsible for the measured thrust forces.Did you mean "internal?"

No, I meant inertial. The thrust forces are measured in an inverted torsional pendulum that is known to exhibit parasitic motions due to coupling of torsional with swinging modes. One of the coupling modes couples the inertia of swinging in one direction with the motion of swinging in the perpendicular direction, leading to a parasitic torsional force. Another coupling mode couples the velocities of swinging motion (in perpendicular directions to each other) resulting in another parasitic torsional force. Thus, torsional forces can be measured that are not due to a thrust from the EM drive. They need to use magnetic damping to try to cancel these parasitic modes. Magnetic damping may cancel the parasitic modes and/or may produce further parasitic modes. This is why at MIT Aero & Astro the inverted pendulum is constructed such as to keep the thruster horizontal at all time, to eliminate these parasitic instabilities

Another thing I have been wondering about, especially given the requirement for an exact placement of the dielectric resonator: maybe this really is some sort of 'microwave drive' that works because of its shape and placement of microwave source? A sort of geometric loophole? No invocation of exotic quantum mechanics or violation of conservation of momentum. If so, would it still be useful in space?

- radiation pressure building between device and chamber walls, effectively exchanging momentum with something else heavy nearby (so : not useful in space)

My other thought is some sort of 'Dark Matter' or 'Dark Energy' interaction - microwaves are cited in efforts to detect Dark Matter at least; maybe under the right conditions they could 'excite' Dark Matter or Dark Energy. But that's just a wild guess.

QuoteMy other thought is some sort of 'Dark Matter' or 'Dark Energy' interaction - microwaves are cited in efforts to detect Dark Matter at least; maybe under the right conditions they could 'excite' Dark Matter or Dark Energy. But that's just a wild guess.Don't be too concerned about posting a wild guess. I wonder how often good ideas start with a wild guess that evolves. A lot of the time, would be my wild guess.

You can have a heck of a lot of hamsters walking inside a cylindrical spacecraft, and also pushing and pulling against its ends but the center of mass of the spacecraft is not going to translate at all.The reason why the cylinder will rotate on a surface on Earth is because of gravity and friction between the cylinder and the surface. Sorry, there ain't no friction against a fixed background when you are in space. Just walking, pushing and pulling inside a spacecraft won't translate the center of mass of the spacecraft. You can also play with a tennis ball against one of the spacecraft's walls and that still won't translate he center of mass of the spacecraft. For the spacecraft's center of mass to move you have to let the tennis balls (or photons, or whatever) escape the spacecraft.