Author Topic: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon  (Read 1529949 times)

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2520 on: 02/11/2009 04:13 am »
3) Beal pulls the plug, citing EELV as the cause. His company did not qualify to bid on EELV payloads. SpaceX ends up with some Beal assets from the fire sale.


Umm, is there any actual evidence of this?

It looked more like Beal couldn't close his business case even after development specifically because of a combination of the commercial GlobalstartTeledesicIridiumWhatever LEO market meltdown and the recurring production cost of his ablative engines and composite bodies, but he publicly blamed it on EELV, and if I remember correctly, NASA unfairness.

It's a habit of those who haven't had a successful launch of their prospective vehicle yet.

If you'll remember Musk pulled the same schtick just a few years ago, claiming SpaceX should have been able to compete for Falcon V launches from 2006 going forward. Hmm, that looks like a dumb lawsuit from this vantage point.

Maybe it paved the way for COTS A-C, though?

I thought the spacex complaint was due to ULA impeding Spacex operations at Vandenberg?

ULA didn't exist back then.  Moving SpaceX off SLC 3W was an Air Force call, as I remember it, that had to do with Atlas V needing to move onto the pad directly adjacent to the original Vandenberg SpaceX site.  No one "impeded" SpaceX operations.  SpaceX may be moving to SLC 4E, according to [edited to correct link

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=09000064807e2c1b ]

The SpaceX complaint had to do with the Air Force decision to award long-term EELV contracts to Boeing and Lockheed Martin.     

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 07:22 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline ugordan

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2521 on: 02/11/2009 08:44 am »
So after an intense (and appreciated) stream of news and photos, and a big rush to get the F9 to the Cape by year's end and upright within weeks, SpaceX has gone extremely quiet.  Not even a word on F1 Flight 5 which should be coming up in a few weeks.

There's a lot of people on this forum that seem to prefer a 'quiet progress' strategy, so I guess you cannot please all. :D

It's clear that work is progressing at LC40 with the infrastructure, at least. I'm sure the SpaceX 'hype machine' will be back in the near future when a new milestone has been reached.

Yes, it would seem some people prefer frequent updates, while others label it as mere hype. Either way, a writeup by Elon requesting your help for securing funding for COTS-D is here: http://spacex.com/cotsd.php

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2522 on: 02/11/2009 12:51 pm »
according to file:///C:/DOCUME~1/TRJOHN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/NOAA-NMFS-2008-0332-0001.htm

Ed, isn't that file on your local harddrive? Just pointing out a linking error...
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Offline R.Simko

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2523 on: 02/11/2009 02:57 pm »
Great video of Falcon 9/Dragon.  Elon Musk is right, America can not only save money and close the gap by funding COTS D, but it can create American jobs and a back-up system to whatever rocket system NASA goes with.  A lot of people don't even know that SpaceX exists.  SpaceX should be running full page newspaper adds to make the general public aware of them.

Offline ugordan

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2524 on: 02/11/2009 03:45 pm »
The general public is not interested in SpaceX, NASA or space at all for that matter. What SpaceX needs to do is demonstrate F9 and Dragon work. That would give much more weight to statements about sending people into space than their track record so far. Before demonstrating that I don't personally think any COTS-D funding is plausible.

Since that is still say 6 months into the future (optimistically), that makes the 2011 manned flight target overoptimistic.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2525 on: 02/11/2009 03:51 pm »
Yep, once F9 (and Dragon cargo) flies, there will be a lot more weight behind the words.

Offline NUAETIUS

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2526 on: 02/11/2009 06:16 pm »
Is it just me, or does the new IRSO (Indian) capsule look a whole lot like the Dragon Space Capsule?


"In its maiden manned mission, ISRO's largely autonomous 3-ton capsule will orbit the Earth at 248 miles (400 km) in altitude for up to seven days with a two-person crew on board, ISRO chairman G. Madhavan Nair announced Jan. 3 at the Indian Science Congress held in Shillong. The capsule will be designed to carry three people, and a planned upgraded version will be equipped with a rendezvous and docking capability, he said."

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090211-india-manned-spaceship.html

Next thing you know China will have a Chinese moon lander that looks just like the MOD-1 from Armadillo. 
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 06:18 pm by NUAETIUS »
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Offline bad_astra

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2527 on: 02/11/2009 06:17 pm »
Agreed, it's a bit too early for SpaceX to be asking for a grassroots "write your congressman on behalf of my multimillion dollar privately held company so I can make more millions" campaign.

Inventive, though! No point doing that till Falcon 9 puts something in orbit.
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2528 on: 02/11/2009 06:28 pm »
NUAETIUS,
SpaceX weren't the first to come up with a 'truncated cone' capsule - I seem to recall some early OSP/CEV proposals that had the same outline, and probably earlier examples as well. The shape is an efficient volume/mass trade-off.

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2529 on: 02/11/2009 06:32 pm »
NUAETIUS,
SpaceX weren't the first to come up with a 'truncated cone' capsule - I seem to recall some early OSP/CEV proposals that had the same outline, and probably earlier examples as well. The shape is an efficient volume/mass trade-off.

I recall Soyuz and Shenzhou.

Offline NUAETIUS

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2530 on: 02/11/2009 06:56 pm »
NUAETIUS,
SpaceX weren't the first to come up with a 'truncated cone' capsule - I seem to recall some early OSP/CEV proposals that had the same outline, and probably earlier examples as well. The shape is an efficient volume/mass trade-off.

I looked at those, and all the other capsules had a different top to bottom ratio, different window placement (or no windows), different placement of the door...  etc.

All I am pointing out is just like the Chinese space capsule looks and shares many design characteristics with the Soyuz (by design), this capsule seems to share a lot of design characteristics with the Dragon.  It can either be seen as India copying SpaceX, or India made the same design choice as SpaceX, either way it is a validation of SpaceX's design that the Indian Space Agency made the same choice.

I think it's great, can't wait for the day that Iran, China, India, the US, the EU, Russia, and Japan all have independent means to get to space.  Completion is good.
“It has long been recognized that the formation of a committee is a powerful technique for avoiding responsibility, deferring difficult decisions and averting blame….while at the same time maintaining a semblance of action.” Augustine's Law - Norm Augustine

Offline Pheogh

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2531 on: 02/11/2009 07:12 pm »
Could someone perhaps enlighten the conversation with what the primary drivers are for the diameter height ratio on a crew "capsule" I am sure there are thousands but what are the primaries? heating, aero-loads,..etc?

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2532 on: 02/11/2009 07:19 pm »
according to file:///C:/DOCUME~1/TRJOHN~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/NOAA-NMFS-2008-0332-0001.htm

Ed, isn't that file on your local harddrive? Just pointing out a linking error...

Thanks for pointing this out.  Try this link to get to the document.

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=09000064807e2c1b

 - Ed Kyle

Offline William Barton

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2533 on: 02/11/2009 07:33 pm »
Could someone perhaps enlighten the conversation with what the primary drivers are for the diameter height ratio on a crew "capsule" I am sure there are thousands but what are the primaries? heating, aero-loads,..etc?

I have wondered about that too. Vostok/Voskhod was a sphere, and most capsules are a shape with a circular base that would sit inside a sphere. Discoverer/Corona (other than Shuttle) being the notable exception that reenters narrow-end first, with CXV modeled on that.

I should add, I'm guessing these shapes are not absolutely necessary, based on K-1 and Falcon upper stage recovery plans.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 07:34 pm by William Barton »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2534 on: 02/11/2009 07:50 pm »
Could someone perhaps enlighten the conversation with what the primary drivers are for the diameter height ratio on a crew "capsule" I am sure there are thousands but what are the primaries? heating, aero-loads,..etc?

There is a discussion of this in Section 5 of the ESAS report.  Basically, smaller sidewall angles provide more internal volume, but at the cost of moving the center of gravity forward, making reentry stability an issue (and increasing total mass).  For a lunar mission, NASA decided that a Falcon-like capsule shape would require an undesirable reduction in radiation shielding to keep the center of gravity aft and the mass in check.  The shape was thought to be workable for LEO missions.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 07:54 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline MP99

Questions (probably for Jim) wrt horizontal->vertical:

What arrives from the payload processing guys? I'm shooting in the dark that it is a fully encapsulated payload with the fairing and  mounting bracket ready to be bolted to the vehicle. Umbilicals and interfaces attached to something temporary for transportation. That would leave little to be done with the payload at the pad?

Since the Delta-IV is integrated horizontally, why do they take it vertical without the payload?  They have a huge MST that allows them to stack the payload after the rocket is vertical. Why? They must have a good reason, but it doesn't seem to apply to Falcon-9. Or does it?


The payload comes to the pad mount on a payload adapter, inside the fairing with the inflight disconnects mated.  The adapter is mated to the upperstage and cables are connected from the upperstage to the adapter.

There is work done at the pad such as removal of sensor covers, arming plug removal, battery enable plugs installed, and on rare occasions, RTGs installed

The good reason is that is was customer requirements in the EELV procurement, something Spacex hasn't considered in their conops and will have trouble with the NEEP


Jim,

do you have any thoughts how big a job it would be for SpaceX to create new launch infrastructure to offer access to the payload after the vehicle has gone vertical? Fairing sounds like it would be a major obstacle with anything like the current support config.

Are there other major shortfalls in their conops compared to established launch operators?

Many thanks, Martin

Offline Jim

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2536 on: 02/11/2009 10:03 pm »
Great video of Falcon 9/Dragon.  Elon Musk is right, America can not only save money and close the gap by funding COTS D, but it can create American jobs and a back-up system to whatever rocket system NASA goes with. 

That is just plain silly.  Falcon 9 is not a given.  Cargo Dragon is not a given. 

Again, this is like expecting an expansion NFL franchise to win a Super Bowl their first year in the league

Offline Antares

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2537 on: 02/11/2009 11:47 pm »
Yeah, but I think they had a lot more draft picks than the typical expansion team.  There's a lot of former Old-Space (and possibly more important airliner) people there.  It's not all rookies, and the rookies were blue chippers.  Granted, maybe not the SB, but I think they've got playoff caliber skills right now.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2538 on: 02/11/2009 11:54 pm »
Great video of Falcon 9/Dragon.  Elon Musk is right, America can not only save money and close the gap by funding COTS D, but it can create American jobs and a back-up system to whatever rocket system NASA goes with. 

That is just plain silly.  Falcon 9 is not a given.  Cargo Dragon is not a given. 

Again, this is like expecting an expansion NFL franchise to win a Super Bowl their first year in the league

So would Orbital be the Arizona Cardinals in that analogy..... which reminds me.

Offline R.Simko

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #2539 on: 02/12/2009 12:09 am »
I guess you could say that Ares 1 is not a given either.

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