Author Topic: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread  (Read 38385 times)

Offline Da Vinci

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #60 on: 01/16/2014 03:02 pm »
Urg, I get lots of people like this feature, but can there please please please be an option in your profile to not show 'likes' at the bottom of the posts when you're logged in? They look incredibly ugly and break up the flow of the thread even worse than the signatures.

Offline Sesquipedalian

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #61 on: 01/16/2014 04:47 pm »
Really like the like button. I believe it will cut down on a lot of uncivil posts as people can like a post that is knowledgeable and supported by facts, as opposed to serial ranting borne of emotion.

And yet, several posts that you have "Liked" have been heavily emotion-based, and light on facts.

Offline Lar

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #62 on: 01/16/2014 05:24 pm »
Really like the like button. I believe it will cut down on a lot of uncivil posts as people can like a post that is knowledgeable and supported by facts, as opposed to serial ranting borne of emotion.

And yet, several posts that you have "Liked" have been heavily emotion-based, and light on facts.

And THAT may be a reason to suppress who likes what and just show counts. I don't know that we want to go down the "your likes are not as valid as my likes" road
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Offline Ford Mustang

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #63 on: 01/16/2014 07:15 pm »
Really like the like button. I believe it will cut down on a lot of uncivil posts as people can like a post that is knowledgeable and supported by facts, as opposed to serial ranting borne of emotion.

And yet, several posts that you have "Liked" have been heavily emotion-based, and light on facts.

While the statement may or may not be true, as I have not checked, this is one downside to the current "X likes this post."  It's going to end up in an uncivilized manner when certain members like only certain style of posts, which could then be used against them in a "flame war".  If there is an option to change member names to "X-number-of-members likes this post" or "X people like this post", that would benefit the whole forum IMO.
« Last Edit: 01/16/2014 07:16 pm by Ford Mustang »

Offline MP99

Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #64 on: 01/16/2014 07:46 pm »
Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but there should be a link from your profile to view the posts that you've liked. I expect a fair number of people are going to want to use it as a "bookmarking" facility.

Its already there, under your profile, under posts and then the liked entry

I either am looking in the wrong place or it's not quite working right. It doesn't change what it shows when compared to recent posts. On the other hand "topics" works, it shows me topics I started.

I believe you are in the right place, but fear that it is broken.  It doesn't seem to switch to any "liked" posts.

looks like it, i'll raise a problem report with the plugin devs, however i'm hearing that "likes" will be included in the next release of the forum software, so dev. work might halt on the plugin....

@Jester,

BTW, it looks like this is intended to be the subset of the existing "messages" list (IE stuff that I have posted), which someone else has liked.

AJA was asking for a facility to list other people's posts which he has liked.



@AJA,

I'd caution not to use the facility for "favouriting", otherwise you may find yourself "liking" a post which you don't like, just to be able to find it again.

I find Evernote very useful for this sort of thing, and even works (after a fashion limited by Android), on Tapatalk and the Mobile view.

cheers, Martin

Offline MP99

Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #65 on: 01/16/2014 07:49 pm »
Right, test like thread... :)

in the mean time, during my rant, I've had a play with the likes and I THINK i've solved the issue breaking likes.

caveat:

- It only works on this default theme (mobile theme is out, needs work anyway)
- you can only like every 300 seconds (for now, until I get the software bugs worked out)
- you need to have at least 1 like yourself before you can like somebody else.
- the double likes on the bars will go once I clean the software (theme issue)
- double entry in stats needs fixing, i know
- you can only "like" the fist post in the thread for now (might change that, up to Chris)
- you can not like your own post
- silly hearts replaced (thanks QuantumG for the icon)


tweaks coming....
I ironically don't like it. I think it may give undue weight to inaccurate statements that may sound correct to uninitiated.

However, you have the option of liking any posts which correct the inaccuracy.

(You may find yourself liking a lot of Jim's posts.  ;D)

cheers, Martin

Offline veblen

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #66 on: 01/16/2014 07:56 pm »
Really like the like button. I believe it will cut down on a lot of uncivil posts as people can like a post that is knowledgeable and supported by facts, as opposed to serial ranting borne of emotion.

And yet, several posts that you have "Liked" have been heavily emotion-based, and light on facts.

That is your opinion.

Offline veblen

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #67 on: 01/16/2014 07:59 pm »
Really like the like button. I believe it will cut down on a lot of uncivil posts as people can like a post that is knowledgeable and supported by facts, as opposed to serial ranting borne of emotion.

And yet, several posts that you have "Liked" have been heavily emotion-based, and light on facts.

And THAT may be a reason to suppress who likes what and just show counts. I don't know that we want to go down the "your likes are not as valid as my likes" road

That's seems civil, optimal, yes.

Offline Sesquipedalian

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #68 on: 01/16/2014 08:37 pm »
Really like the like button. I believe it will cut down on a lot of uncivil posts as people can like a post that is knowledgeable and supported by facts, as opposed to serial ranting borne of emotion.

And yet, several posts that you have "Liked" have been heavily emotion-based, and light on facts.

And THAT may be a reason to suppress who likes what and just show counts. I don't know that we want to go down the "your likes are not as valid as my likes" road

That's actually a good point, but it's not what I was trying to point out.  The intention of my post was to highlight the contradiction between what he said and what actually happened.  Some people may think that this feature helps to promote reasonable, fact-based posts, but the truth of the matter is that "Likes" are based in emotion.

So you end up with posts that are emotionally and rhetorically charged, with not a shred of factual data contained in them, garnering dozens of likes on one side; while on the other side, dispassionately or boringly written factual rebuttals get no "Likes".

Consider Jim's posts.  They're chock full of interesting first-hand information and loads of historical data, but they're also very terse and abrupt, which to a lot of people comes across as rude.  How many "Likes" would Jim's posts get?

What I, and a few other people, are trying to point out, is that the "Like" system is not a good way to evaluate post quality; it's merely a social tool.  Now, if that's the direction the mods want to take the site, that's their prerogative, but people shouldn't be fooled into thinking this feature is something it's not.
« Last Edit: 01/16/2014 08:38 pm by Sesquipedalian »

Offline Lar

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #69 on: 01/16/2014 08:52 pm »
You make good points.

And I won't put words in Chris's mouth but I doubt very much he wants to take the site in that direction, one of the very attractive things about this site is how high quality the discourse is here, in general. 

Users were clamoring for this feature but if it trends too far in that direction I would not at all be surprised if he had it turned off again completely.

I think my suggestion of not showing WHO liked something might help somewhat to remove personalization but you are right that there remains the danger of rabble rousing posts getting a lot of likes. Jim has a few likes already though, I saw.

What matters more than absolute "like" numbers is what is DONE with the numbers. If it's essentially nothing, it's not as bad as if one gets badges or worse, people start saying things like "my post must be right it got a lot of likes" ... exactly where we don't want to go. Works great for humor forums though!
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Offline veblen

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #70 on: 01/16/2014 09:31 pm »
It's a fun feature that apparently some people don't want because they are unhappy that viewpoints they don't agree with are collecting likes. Chris can take it down if he wants. Sheesh!

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #71 on: 01/16/2014 10:22 pm »
It's a fun feature that apparently some people don't want because they are unhappy that viewpoints they don't agree with are collecting likes. Chris can take it down if he wants. Sheesh!

I don't think we got more than five people who don't like it, out of the thousands and thousands of logged in members who visit this forum each day. NONE of the fears noted have materialized. It's been used well but with moderation and it's hardly intrusive at all.

For example, the amount of "+1" posts has gone down from 10-15 per day to one, as a sign of improved quality. Some people who have been holding an opinion that a lot of people on the thread have countered have found likes to their post, aiding their confidence in continuing to hold their position (a huge deal on a forum where some posters are over-active with their positions, that can drown out and discourage counter arguments).

It'll be monitored over the coming weeks, but so far it's clearly working.
« Last Edit: 01/16/2014 10:23 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline KelvinZero

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #72 on: 01/18/2014 11:48 pm »
There is a problem with forum threads (on any site) that often the most active threads are just the ones which have the most indefensible positions and everyone is jumping on to say so.

It is good if there is some other way to measure the worth of a thread than it's activity. I don't know if this is really it but we will see.

I think my own 'like' etiquette will be to avoid using it to 'like' one side of an argument. In this case it is practically a dislike, just jumping in and shouting "Yeah" over somebody else's point without giving them anything to respond to.. So I guess I will mainly restrict it to OP or posts that stand on their own.

It occurred to me, it could be useful in future to search by posts I have liked also, sorting like putting a star by emails. Maybe that is a good way of thinking of it: this is something I might want to find again.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #73 on: 01/18/2014 11:52 pm »
It occurred to me, it could be useful in future to search by posts I have liked also, sorting like putting a star by emails. Maybe that is a good way of thinking of it: this is something I might want to find again.

Do we have this feature yet? How do I access it?
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #74 on: 01/19/2014 12:00 am »
There is a problem with forum threads (on any site) that often the most active threads are just the ones which have the most indefensible positions and everyone is jumping on to say so.

That is simply not the case here.  Our more active threads are processing and launch threads, or continuous update threads such as Flight Assignments to future dev.

We do not have threads that are based on "the most indefensible positions" here. The only way that would be the case here is if we allowed some idiot to start a "Man did not land on the moon - discuss". We obviously do not allow that here.

Hope we're clear on that.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #75 on: 01/19/2014 12:02 am »
It occurred to me, it could be useful in future to search by posts I have liked also, sorting like putting a star by emails. Maybe that is a good way of thinking of it: this is something I might want to find again.

Do we have this feature yet? How do I access it?


He suggested it four minutes before you asked if it was a feature yet? I don't think even the world's best programmer could have implemented it within that timeframe.

And that sounds like a lot of work/not viable - so that'll likely be a no.

What you see is good enough.
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Offline rdale

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #76 on: 01/19/2014 03:50 am »
In the time you spent writing that response, couldn't you have programmed that feature in yourself and added another to pre-emptively take care of the next request too? :)

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #77 on: 01/19/2014 05:48 am »
So just hypothetically, would it be possible for someone to post a message, have a second person like it, and then have the first person go back and edit the message so that it said something completely different?
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #78 on: 01/19/2014 01:32 pm »
So just hypothetically, would it be possible for someone to post a message, have a second person like it, and then have the first person go back and edit the message so that it said something completely different?

I wouldn't expect a member of this site to do that, but if they did, it would show as "edited", someone would very likely report it to mod and the post (and like) would be removed.
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Offline AndrewJ

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Re: New NSF "Likes "Feedback Thread
« Reply #79 on: 01/19/2014 02:14 pm »
Hello,

I've been reading NASA Spaceflight for several years now, and have been very impressed by what I've seen. There is plenty of factual information and informed opinion, along with effective moderation. You can be justifiably proud of the very high signal-to-noise ratio that is present on these forums.

That is why I'm baffled by the decision to add the "Likes" to the forum. This is pure, self-inflicted, noise.

I hope people will be evaluating each post (theirs or others) on its contents and merit, not vying for social pats on the head from whichever clique of "likers" happens to be operating at the time, or letting their judgment of a post be swayed by the mood of the "liking" crowd.

Let the posts stand on their own merits, without throwing social pressure into the mix. After all, this is NASA Spaceflight, not some high-school chit-chat.

Fortunately, there is a simple solution for me. A combination of Firefox and the Adblock add-on allow me to select specific elements of a page to hide. Now all the "Likes" are gone, and the clear information signal is visible again.


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