Author Topic: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion  (Read 1386125 times)

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #960 on: 02/19/2010 12:58 pm »

If there is a major conflict of interest then Orbital's LAS division could be sold off, possibly via a management buy out.

There is no LAS "division".  It is not a standalone product.
« Last Edit: 02/19/2010 12:59 pm by Jim »

Online TOG

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 223
  • Near Chicago, Illinois
  • Liked: 65
  • Likes Given: 58
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #961 on: 02/19/2010 01:20 pm »
Any news (and hopefully pictures/video) of the rollout yet?
M's Laws of Aerodynamics:                                    On Physics Exam:
1) if you push anything hard enough it will fly          Q)The allegory of Schrödinger's cat shows what?
2) if you stop pushing it stops flying                        A)That Shrödinger was a sadistic cat hater

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #962 on: 02/19/2010 01:34 pm »
not yet

Offline HMXHMX

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1710
  • Liked: 2215
  • Likes Given: 662
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #963 on: 02/19/2010 02:28 pm »
If the the spaceflight now article about orbital offer the Orion LAS on the market is true:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1002/18orionlas/

Then I have 2 questions.

If Orbital offered a resized LAS for Dragon, would the R&D and production techniques they have developed for Orion be applicable to a Dragon LAS, meaning less than a 2-3 year development time?

How likely would a deal between Orbital and SpaceX for LAS be considering they are competing for future cargo contracts for ISS?

I do not think the Orion LAS has any application to Dragon or for that matter, any commercial capsule.  Too expensive and too many Gs (the high G due directly to the Ares first stage issues).

I also am fairly sure there is no chance that SpaceX will buy an LAS from an outside supplier. It's totally out of character.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7206
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 806
  • Likes Given: 900
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #964 on: 02/19/2010 02:31 pm »
Any news (and hopefully pictures/video) of the rollout yet?

Jim, are you at KSC today? If so, has there been any talk around the water cooler about doings at LC-40?
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #965 on: 02/19/2010 02:39 pm »

Jim, are you at KSC today? If so, has there been any talk around the water cooler about doings at LC-40?

there is no talk since they are isolated.  I can watch out my window and can see the pad in the distance.

Offline corrodedNut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1542
  • Liked: 216
  • Likes Given: 133
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #966 on: 02/19/2010 02:59 pm »
I can watch out my window and can see the pad in the distance.

Can you see the erector? If not, do you remember the last time you saw it out?

Thanks

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37441
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #967 on: 02/19/2010 03:12 pm »
I can watch out my window and can see the pad in the distance.

Can you see the erector? If not, do you remember the last time you saw it out?

Thanks

I saw it out a few weeks ago

Offline StuffOfInterest

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
  • Just interested in space
  • McLean, Virginia, USA
  • Liked: 920
  • Likes Given: 231
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #968 on: 02/19/2010 06:12 pm »

Jim, are you at KSC today? If so, has there been any talk around the water cooler about doings at LC-40?

there is no talk since they are isolated.  I can watch out my window and can see the pad in the distance.
Now there's a window I'd love to have a webcam pointed out. :)  Sadly, would probably violate all sorts of rules.

Offline Antares

  • ABO^2
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • Done arguing with amateurs
  • Liked: 371
  • Likes Given: 228
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #969 on: 02/20/2010 03:01 am »
I suspect there are *videos* (more than just one camera), some by SpaceX and some by others.

Which, praytell, "others" are going to be out at Kwaj?  It ain't Spring Break in Cocoa Beach.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline Antares

  • ABO^2
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • Done arguing with amateurs
  • Liked: 371
  • Likes Given: 228
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #970 on: 02/20/2010 03:06 am »
as did the late-lamented Kistler who would have given us real reusable LV's, had Musk not seen his chance and put the boot in to kill competition in COTS.

That's a serious accusation. Provide proof or edit your post.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline SpacexULA

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 73
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #971 on: 02/20/2010 04:00 am »
I suspect there are *videos* (more than just one camera), some by SpaceX and some by others.
 - Ed Kyle

And I am sure that almost all launch failures have TONS of unreleased data.  Telemetry, camera angles, internal reports, pictures of debris, saftey review reports from the people involved.  The write up of the person that didn't properly check the nut.

So you will not be happy till you have every camera angle, the picture of the payload that supposedly landed back on the island (you know they took pictures of that), pictures of the burn remains they had to pick off the reef.  pictures of Elon's tear strewn face when it went off course....

I mean seriously we know they FUBARed their 1st launch.  What profit would there be in letting us see all the gristly details... even though I would LOVE to see the hole in the roof the payload made. ;)
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15391
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8566
  • Likes Given: 1356
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #972 on: 02/20/2010 04:24 am »
I suspect there are *videos* (more than just one camera), some by SpaceX and some by others.
 - Ed Kyle

And I am sure that almost all launch failures have TONS of unreleased data.  Telemetry, camera angles, internal reports, pictures of debris, saftey review reports from the people involved.  The write up of the person that didn't properly check the nut.

So you will not be happy till you have every camera angle, the picture of the payload that supposedly landed back on the island (you know they took pictures of that), pictures of the burn remains they had to pick off the reef.  pictures of Elon's tear strewn face when it went off course....
*Don't* speak for me.  Please.
Quote
I mean seriously we know they FUBARed their 1st launch.  What profit would there be in letting us see all the gristly details... even though I would LOVE to see the hole in the roof the payload made. ;)

I haven't asked for "every camera angle" or "grisly details".  The point I am making is that SpaceX has not provided *even one* angle that actually shows the failure - a level of absolute information control not seen with other launch services providers.  If Arianespace is brave enough to show its Ariane 5 careening out of control, SpaceX should be willing to show what it has had to overcome to achieve success.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15391
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8566
  • Likes Given: 1356
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #973 on: 02/20/2010 04:39 am »
I suspect there are *videos* (more than just one camera), some by SpaceX and some by others.

Which, praytell, "others" are going to be out at Kwaj?  It ain't Spring Break in Cocoa Beach.

Plenty of possibilities.  Non-SpaceX test range tracking assets are one possibility.  Range contractors and/or U.S. Army personnel are other possibilities.  Payload "customer" personnel (U.S. Air Force) provide another set of possibilities.  And heck, who knows, maybe some Marshallese resident of the Atoll (not all islands on the Atoll are reserved for the range - and it is no longer a U.S. territory) took a picture or two. 

 - Ed Kyle

Offline kkattula

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3008
  • Melbourne, Australia
  • Liked: 656
  • Likes Given: 116
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #974 on: 02/20/2010 03:13 pm »
I've seen plenty of footage of all three failures, as they developed. Showing the cause of each one:

  Fuel line on fire, engine cut-off, horizon tipping sideways, ground getting closer

  Nozzle bumping the interstage, small wobble growing from positive fedback

  Stage reconnect, engine explosion.

What I haven't seen is final consequences for each failure. Which, while possibly spectacular or at least mildly interesting, wouldn't add to our knowledge of either the root problem, or the steps taken to fix it.

Offline cheesybagel

  • Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #975 on: 02/20/2010 04:32 pm »
For me one question is why has SpaceX been increasing their headcount so much. They probably needed more staff for doing the capsule work, including small hypergolic engines. They needed to ramp up engine production for Falcon 9. They also have more launch sites now.

However, given Falcon 9 reuses components from Falcon 1, why all this headcount? Is SpaceX doing parallel engine development work? Just how big are their ambitions, considering they only had one successful launch for a paying customer so far?

Offline FinalFrontier

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4490
  • Space Watcher
  • Liked: 1332
  • Likes Given: 173
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #976 on: 02/20/2010 05:35 pm »
For me one question is why has SpaceX been increasing their headcount so much. They probably needed more staff for doing the capsule work, including small hypergolic engines. They needed to ramp up engine production for Falcon 9. They also have more launch sites now.

However, given Falcon 9 reuses components from Falcon 1, why all this headcount? Is SpaceX doing parallel engine development work? Just how big are their ambitions, considering they only had one successful launch for a paying customer so far?

It is suspected that Spacex has its own "skunk works". They are developing, or thought to be developing, or wildly speculated to be developing ;) : New upper stage, hydrolox RAPTOR engine for it, perhaps a new first stage engine, perhaps TWO new first stage engines, potential high energy third stage for future ventures :).
3-30-2017: The start of a great future
"Live Long and Prosper"

Offline Nate_Trost

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
  • Liked: 47
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #977 on: 02/20/2010 08:39 pm »
Over the next four years, SpaceX needs to build fifteen Falcon 9s and fifteen Dragons for COTS and CRS alone, I think manufacturing and operations staff have been the majority of the hires over the past couple years.

Between finishing Dragon, developing a crewed Dragon, the Merlin turbopump upgrade/Block II F9, I think their engineering/development folks are still pretty busy. Who knows how much (if any) serious work has been done on F9H or 'Raptor' yet. I'd be a bit surprised if SpaceX could financially afford to develop a LH2 engine and upper stage just yet.

Offline Lee Jay

  • Elite Veteran
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8566
  • Liked: 3603
  • Likes Given: 327
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #978 on: 02/20/2010 08:47 pm »
Over the next four years, SpaceX needs to build fifteen Falcon 9s and fifteen Dragons for COTS and CRS alone,

Wow...when you put it like that, you realize that's 150 Merlin's, or just short of one a week!

Online ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8520
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 3543
  • Likes Given: 759
Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion
« Reply #979 on: 02/20/2010 08:48 pm »
Over the next four years, SpaceX needs to build fifteen Falcon 9s and fifteen Dragons for COTS and CRS alone,

Wow...when you put it like that, you realize that's 150 Merlin's, or just short of one a week!

That just about was their target production rate, IIRC.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0