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Robotic Spacecraft (Astronomy, Planetary, Earth, Solar/Heliophysics) => Space Science Coverage => Topic started by: sanman on 07/15/2012 12:24 AM

Title: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
Post by: sanman on 07/15/2012 12:24 AM
ISRO is getting ready for a 2013 mission to Mars:

http://www.indianexpress.com/video/national/6/mission-to-mars-in-2013-isro/10969 (http://www.indianexpress.com/video/national/6/mission-to-mars-in-2013-isro/10969)

http://news.in.msn.com/national/india-all-set-to-give-go-ahead-for-mars-mission-1 (http://news.in.msn.com/national/india-all-set-to-give-go-ahead-for-mars-mission-1)

(http://kaw.stb.s-msn.com/i/14/0BFED4AE072C6FFF1F9CF267E118.jpg)
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sfjcody_ on 07/15/2012 10:07 AM
Very unlikely that this will launch in 2013. I'm going to say 2016 at the earliest.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: manboy on 07/16/2012 12:19 PM
Very unlikely that this will launch in 2013. I'm going to say 2016 at the earliest.
I don't know why they're even claiming it would launch in 2013, hell the design isn't even finalized yet.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: baldusi on 07/16/2012 03:15 PM
Is 2013 even a launch window to Mars?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Drkskywxlt on 07/16/2012 03:26 PM
2013 is a launch window.  MAVEN is launching next fall.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Phillip Clark on 07/18/2012 08:59 AM
Maybe 2013 is when the next *phase* of the Indian Mars programme is started/launched?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 07/23/2012 01:36 AM
It's only supposed to be a 25-kg probe. There may not be a whole lot to finalize or design into it.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: plutogno on 07/23/2012 05:17 AM
25 kg is the mass of the payload, not that of the whole probe!
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: plutogno on 07/27/2012 07:26 AM
a few more details
http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/isro-prl-scientists-discuss-mars-venus-plans-at-cospar-2012/
looks like the payload has been more than halved at 10.5 kg
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 08/04/2012 12:47 AM
Cabinet approval recieved:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-19110039

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2012/08/03/India-gives-go-ahead-to-Mars-mission/UPI-52351344039610/

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3723817.ece

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/cabinet-approves-mission-to-mars/articleshow/15343494.cms

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indias-space-mission-to-send-a-satellite-to-mars/1/211722.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-india-space-marsbre8720qs-20120803,0,317295.story

Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 08/28/2012 12:52 PM
ISRO interested in Mars methane:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/space/india-aims-to-crack-methane-mystery-with-mars-mission_796271.html
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: plutogno on 08/28/2012 04:50 PM
apparently there was some harsh debate on the Mars mission in India
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/08/qualms-about-indias-plan-for-a-2.html
note also that the probe name should be Mangalyaan
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Star One on 08/28/2012 08:18 PM
Do any of their launch vehicles actually have the throw capacity to put a significant & useful payload into orbit around Mars, as that second link certainly makes it sound like this isn't the case?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Dalhousie on 08/29/2012 01:34 AM
Do any of their launch vehicles actually have the throw capacity to put a significant & useful payload into orbit around Mars, as that second link certainly makes it sound like this isn't the case?

The PSLV can put 1.4 tonnes into a GTO and and the 1.3 tonne Chandrayaan 1 mission to the Moon.  It is quite relaiable and should be more than adequate.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Star One on 08/29/2012 05:49 PM
Do any of their launch vehicles actually have the throw capacity to put a significant & useful payload into orbit around Mars, as that second link certainly makes it sound like this isn't the case?

The PSLV can put 1.4 tonnes into a GTO and and the 1.3 tonne Chandrayaan 1 mission to the Moon.  It is quite relaiable and should be more than adequate.

But wouldn't it be better to wait for the GSLV MK III?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: plutogno on 08/29/2012 05:54 PM

But wouldn't it be better to wait for the GSLV MK III?

normally yes. but I remain convinced that the haste with which the mission has been approved, in spite of the launch window opening practically tomorrow (in 14 months, which will require a very fast development and testing phase), has something to do with the fact that China will likely launch something to Mars in 2016
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Star One on 08/29/2012 06:47 PM

But wouldn't it be better to wait for the GSLV MK III?

normally yes. but I remain convinced that the haste with which the mission has been approved, in spite of the launch window opening practically tomorrow (in 14 months, which will require a very fast development and testing phase), has something to do with the fact that China will likely launch something to Mars in 2016

I agree that's why I fear that as a result of this undue haste there is far higher likelihood that the mission will end negatively. Something which will not stand any future Mars exploration by the country in good stead.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 08/30/2012 02:42 PM
Actually, the main reason for the haste is because of the fallout of a political corruption scam. One of the junior coalition partners upon which the govt is dependent for survival, was given control of the telecom ministry as a perk. They then promptly used their control over that ministry to set up a lucrative scam which would see satellite bandwidth sold off for next to nothing to a foreign interest. Actually, the foreign interest was a shell company set up on behalf of some American VIPs including former US SecState Madeleine Albright.

When news of the scam broke, the govt was in a panic, because it knew it couldn't prosecute its coalition partner without suffering a collapse of the govt, triggering fresh elections. They don't want to go for early elections at all costs, because they know they'd all lose badly. So they did the only thing they could - they put all the blame on the ISRO chief at the time of the scam, Dr G Madhavan Nair, for not exercising adequate oversight.

Well, Dr Nair protested very loudly, and was not a willing fall guy, and some senior colleagues even resigned in protest too. But the ruling politicians were determined to save their own necks at all costs, and blacklisted him from holding any govt positions, along with a few others. Dr Nair is most famous as the driving force behind India's Chandrayaan mission to the Moon, and of course is widely respected in Indian space circles and at ISRO.

The handling of the whole mess caused a lot of heartburn at ISRO, leaving a lot of people feeling demoralized. So the Prime Minister's Office has recently decided to throw up a Mars mission as a sop for ISRO's beleaguered scientists. That's why the whole Mars mission is going from conception to imminent launch in record time. When politicians worry about losing face, then money is quick to flow, and the normally lean-funded ISRO isn't going to turn it down.

Well, you know the old saying - "Found a horseshoe, so let's go buy a horse!"  ;D
Wag the dog, anyone?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 09/08/2012 10:44 PM
India's politically embattled Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is increasingly trying to associate himself with ISRO, hoping that the national pride it invokes will rub off on him

http://hillpost.in/2012/09/09/india-from-ferrying-rockets-on-cycles-to-eyeing-mars/50880/general/hp_bureau

Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Salo on 09/09/2012 11:35 AM
Mars mission aimed at scientific development, not space war: ISRO

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/article3877463.ece
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Salo on 09/09/2012 11:37 AM
India plans to launch, in 2013, its maiden mission to Mars. Called Mangalyaan, it will be an unmanned orbiting mission to study the atmosphere of the Red Planet.

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/economy/article-isro-launches-100th-mission-prime-minister-witnesses-historic-event-310529

MangalYaan (MARS Orbiter Mission - MOM):

http://www.issdc.gov.in/mangalyaan.html
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 09/18/2012 04:22 AM
ISRO again confirms November 2013 as planned launch date:

http://www.firstpost.com/tech/indias-mars-mission-to-begin-november-2013-459232.html
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 09/21/2012 06:15 PM
Hindustan Aeronautics delivers Mars orbiter mission satellite structure to ISRO http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/hindustan-aeronautics-delivers-mars-orbiter-mission-satellite-structure-to-isro/articleshow/16490582.cms (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/hindustan-aeronautics-delivers-mars-orbiter-mission-satellite-structure-to-isro/articleshow/16490582.cms)

The satellite structure is an assembly of composite and metallic honeycomb sandwich panels with a central composite cylinder," HAL Chairman R K Tyagi said.  ISRO will build the other satellite subsystems and scientific payload onto this structure.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 09/22/2012 08:30 AM
http://www.firstpost.com/fwire/hal-makes-mars-orbiter-panels-for-space-agency-464340.html
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 10/09/2012 12:15 AM
India test-fires Mars mission engine

The engine, known as the liquid apogee motor (LAM), was fired for about 670 seconds at Isro's Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre at Mahendra Giri in Tamil Nadu. "The test was successful and will go on for about 45 days.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-test-fires-Mars-mission-engine/articleshow/16732473.cms
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 10/09/2012 04:07 AM
Did the project actually started one or two years ago? I can't see the developers churning out probe structures and engines a month or two after it started development...

So the "final approval" in August is actually a promise that all fundings and government approvals have been secured?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: plutogno on 10/09/2012 05:21 AM
Did the project actually started one or two years ago? I can't see the developers churning out probe structures and engines a month or two after it started development...

I think structures and systems are mostly based on Chandrayaan. instruments will be a different game, however...
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 10/11/2012 06:35 AM


http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/india-isro-test-fires-mars-orbiter-mission-engine-2012/

Quote
On Monday, the Indian Mars Orbiter Mission program crossed an important milestone with the successful test firing for the first time of the liquid apogee motor.

AsianScientist (Oct. 11, 2012) – On Monday, the Indian Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) program crossed an important milestone with the successful test firing for the first time of the liquid apogee motor at 1 am (IST).

Speaking to Asian Scientist Magazine, ISRO chief spokesperson Devi Prasad Karnik said that the engine was fired for about 670 seconds and the test would go on for another 45 days.

The test was carried out at ISRO’s Liquid Propulsion Systems Center at Mahendra Giri in Tamil Nadu. The engine is fired during orbit raising maneuvers.

An ISRO official said that the challenge in the mission was that the engine has to restart after 300 days when the orbiter enters the Martian orbit.

According to the present Mars mission profile, after launch, the 1,350 kg orbiter will operate around the earth-bound orbit six times as its altitude is raised before it begins its 300-day journey towards the Red Planet.

A chart prepared by ISRO showed that in the final orbit the orbiter’s furthest point from earth will be 215,000 km and the nearest 600 km.

After going around the earth six times, the orbiter will depart for Mars on November 26, 2013 and enter the Mars orbit on September 21, 2014. This is known as the Mars Orbit Insertion and is a crucial and nail biting operation.

In a recent visit to the ISRO Satellite Center at Bangalore, Asian Scientist Magazine had the opportunity to see the orbiter in the clean room. In the coming days, it will be prepared for the challenging mission and it will start undergoing various tests from March 2013.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/15/2012 02:10 PM
Any news and updates about the construction of the orbiter and its instruments? Are there any data available on the technical specifications of the science instruments and the orbiter itself?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 12/15/2012 04:05 PM
Any news and updates about the construction of the orbiter and its instruments? Are there any data available on the technical specifications of the science instruments and the orbiter itself?

This is old news about possible payloads
http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/isro-indian-mission-to-mars-red-planet-2013/
The December conference report states that the 10 Indian Martian experiments suggested are:

1) Probe For Infrared Spectroscopy for Mars (Prism) which will study certain aspects of the Martian atmosphere and “spatial and seasonal variations of these gases over the lifetime of the mission.”

2) Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyzer (Menca) which will analyze the Martian upper atmosphere-exosphere region 400 km above the surface.

3) Another instrument (Tis) will measure thermal emissions from the surface of the Red Planet. Its primary science goals include mapping the surface composition and mineralogy of Mars and understanding the dynamics of the Martian atmosphere by monitoring carbon dioxide levels.

4) Using radio signals to study the atmosphere.

5) Mars Color Camera (MCC) which can image from a highly elliptical orbit of 500 km x 80,000 km. It will be designed as a multi-purpose instrument which can image the topography of the Martian surface and map Martian polar caps. “It is expected to observe and help in furthering our understanding of events like dust storms and dust devils. From an elliptical orbit around Mars, the camera will return high quality visual images of Mars, its moons, asteroids and other celestial bodies from close quarters,” the report states.

6) A Methane Sensor For Mars (MSM) has been recommended for detecting methane in the Martian atmosphere.

7) A Mars Radiation Spectrometer (Maris) which can measure and characterize charged particle background levels during the cruise and orbit phase of the spacecraft. This instrument will play an important role for a possible future human mission to Mars as it will determine radiation exposure doses.

8.) A Plasma and Current Experiment (Pace) which will assess what is known as “atmospheric escape and processes of the Martian atmosphere and the structure of the Martian tail.”
9) A microwave remote sensing technique for sounding the Martian atmosphere. Scientists connected with this instrument say that it will be designed to be minimally affected during a dust storm.


10) A suite of instruments to detect plasma waves in the Martian atmosphere.

only some of the 10 experiments and payloads will be selected, with a focus on experiments that have not been done before

From http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=775497:

ISRO has also "gone through" preliminary design of a 1,315 kg satellite bus of "Chandrayaan heritage" for the mission. "Building (of the satellite bus) is going on," he said.

ISRO officials said the Mars orbiter will be placed in an orbit of 500x80,000 km around the Red planet and will have a provision for carrying nearly 25 kg of scientific payloads on-board.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/15/2012 04:21 PM
Any news and updates about the construction of the orbiter and its instruments? Are there any data available on the technical specifications of the science instruments and the orbiter itself?

This is old news about possible payloads
http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/isro-indian-mission-to-mars-red-planet-2013/
The December conference report states that the 10 Indian Martian experiments suggested are:

1) Probe For Infrared Spectroscopy for Mars (Prism) which will study certain aspects of the Martian atmosphere and “spatial and seasonal variations of these gases over the lifetime of the mission.”

2) Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyzer (Menca) which will analyze the Martian upper atmosphere-exosphere region 400 km above the surface.

3) Another instrument (Tis) will measure thermal emissions from the surface of the Red Planet. Its primary science goals include mapping the surface composition and mineralogy of Mars and understanding the dynamics of the Martian atmosphere by monitoring carbon dioxide levels.

4) Using radio signals to study the atmosphere.

5) Mars Color Camera (MCC) which can image from a highly elliptical orbit of 500 km x 80,000 km. It will be designed as a multi-purpose instrument which can image the topography of the Martian surface and map Martian polar caps. “It is expected to observe and help in furthering our understanding of events like dust storms and dust devils. From an elliptical orbit around Mars, the camera will return high quality visual images of Mars, its moons, asteroids and other celestial bodies from close quarters,” the report states.

6) A Methane Sensor For Mars (MSM) has been recommended for detecting methane in the Martian atmosphere.

7) A Mars Radiation Spectrometer (Maris) which can measure and characterize charged particle background levels during the cruise and orbit phase of the spacecraft. This instrument will play an important role for a possible future human mission to Mars as it will determine radiation exposure doses.

8.) A Plasma and Current Experiment (Pace) which will assess what is known as “atmospheric escape and processes of the Martian atmosphere and the structure of the Martian tail.”
9) A microwave remote sensing technique for sounding the Martian atmosphere. Scientists connected with this instrument say that it will be designed to be minimally affected during a dust storm.


10) A suite of instruments to detect plasma waves in the Martian atmosphere.

only some of the 10 experiments and payloads will be selected, with a focus on experiments that have not been done before

From http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=775497:

ISRO has also "gone through" preliminary design of a 1,315 kg satellite bus of "Chandrayaan heritage" for the mission. "Building (of the satellite bus) is going on," he said.

ISRO officials said the Mars orbiter will be placed in an orbit of 500x80,000 km around the Red planet and will have a provision for carrying nearly 25 kg of scientific payloads on-board.

That was rather old info (the conference was a year ago), and I see that there's a list of the 7 chosen instruments here:

- Probe For Infrared Spectroscopy for Mars (Prism)
- Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyzer (Menca)
- "TIS" instrument (thermal emissions)
- Mars Color Camera (MCC)
- Methane Sensor For Mars (MSM)
- Mars Radiation Spectrometer (Maris)
- Plasma and Current Experiment (Pace)

What I would like to know is who are in charge of each of the 7 instruments, when are they supposed to be completed and integrated with the flight article, and what are their specific capabilities (e.g. camera resolution, types of particles to be detected by the particle experiments etc.) In any case, given that the ultimate suite of instruments are only confirmed several months before, I somehow feel that the chance of it meeting the 2013 launch window is close to nil, given previous experiences of building interplanetary probes around the world....
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 12/15/2012 04:35 PM
According to ISRO Chairman, main objective of the mission is to successfully insert the spacecraft into the intended orbit around Mars. So they may go ahead with the launch given the basic orbiter design is complete.

From space application center, ISRO, dated  12 July 2012

Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Sparky on 12/18/2012 07:46 AM
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find this question addressed anywhere. Will Mangalyaan have relay capabilities for surface probes the way Mars Express (and Odyssey and MRO) does? Since I haven't seen it advertised, I will assume no.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/18/2012 07:58 AM
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find this question addressed anywhere. Will Mangalyaan have relay capabilities for surface probes the way Mars Express (and Odyssey and MRO) does? Since I haven't seen it advertised, I will assume no.

Given that the Indians are sending this orbiter to familiarize themselves with BEO operations, I don't think that communication relay operations are on their horizon yet...... so no.

BTW I would be grateful if someone can find detailed presentations on the technical specifications of the spacecraft and science instruments..... the ISRO website on this little Mars orbiter don't link to anything else......  :-X
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 12/18/2012 05:31 PM
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find this question addressed anywhere. Will Mangalyaan have relay capabilities for surface probes the way Mars Express (and Odyssey and MRO) does? Since I haven't seen it advertised, I will assume no.

There will not be any surface probe, so Mangalyaan does not need such capability. BTW scientific objectives of Mangalyaan are following:

(i) to understand surface features of Mars like morphology, topography and mineralogy.
(ii) to study the dynamics of the upper atmosphere of Mars, effects of solar wind and radiation and the escape of volatiles to Space and
(iii) to observe Phobos and to estimate the orbits of asteroids during the Mars Transfer Trajectory.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Star One on 12/18/2012 05:58 PM
If this is a success are there any indications of plans for further Mars missions by ISRO?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: plutogno on 12/18/2012 06:10 PM
I think they hinted at a second orbiter in the late 10s
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 12/18/2012 06:53 PM
If this is a success are there any indications of plans for further Mars missions by ISRO?

In 2012-2017 five years plan profile image, one Mars mission, Mars 2, is shown in 2018. GSLV variants may be used for delivering more payloads to near circular orbit.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Sparky on 12/18/2012 07:11 PM
There will not be any surface probe, so Mangalyaan does not need such capability. BTW scientific objectives of Mangalyaan are following:

(i) to understand surface features of Mars like morphology, topography and mineralogy.
(ii) to study the dynamics of the upper atmosphere of Mars, effects of solar wind and radiation and the escape of volatiles to Space and
(iii) to observe Phobos and to estimate the orbits of asteroids during the Mars Transfer Trajectory.

My gut reaction was to say the Europe does some relay for NASA surface ops via Mars Express, even though the rovers are not their missions, but I sort of forgot about Beagle 2.

That being said, it would be nice to have, and perhaps ISRO will have a relay package on their next orbiter.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 12/18/2012 07:49 PM
There will not be any surface probe, so Mangalyaan does not need such capability. BTW scientific objectives of Mangalyaan are following:

(i) to understand surface features of Mars like morphology, topography and mineralogy.
(ii) to study the dynamics of the upper atmosphere of Mars, effects of solar wind and radiation and the escape of volatiles to Space and
(iii) to observe Phobos and to estimate the orbits of asteroids during the Mars Transfer Trajectory.

My gut reaction was to say the Europe does some relay for NASA surface ops via Mars Express, even though the rovers are not their missions, but I sort of forgot about Beagle 2.

That being said, it would be nice to have, and perhaps ISRO will have a relay package on their next orbiter.

That is very much possible. correct me if I am wrong that NASA will have to provide the relay package or atleast the package specifications.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Star One on 12/19/2012 07:17 PM
There will not be any surface probe, so Mangalyaan does not need such capability. BTW scientific objectives of Mangalyaan are following:

(i) to understand surface features of Mars like morphology, topography and mineralogy.
(ii) to study the dynamics of the upper atmosphere of Mars, effects of solar wind and radiation and the escape of volatiles to Space and
(iii) to observe Phobos and to estimate the orbits of asteroids during the Mars Transfer Trajectory.

My gut reaction was to say the Europe does some relay for NASA surface ops via Mars Express, even though the rovers are not their missions, but I sort of forgot about Beagle 2.

That being said, it would be nice to have, and perhaps ISRO will have a relay package on their next orbiter.

That is very much possible. correct me if I am wrong that NASA will have to provide the relay package or atleast the package specifications.

If it's anything like the TGO with ESA I would have thought NASA would provide the communications package pre-built by them?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/04/2013 04:29 PM
India reaches out for Mars in October

 India’s space mission to Mars, expected to be launched in October, will look for signature of life and the reasons for loss of atmosphere on the red planet, a top scientist said here.

“We should get the five payloads by March and we plan to start integrating them in the satellite from April,” Jitendra Nath Goswami, director of the Physical Research Laboratory and closely involved with the Mars mission, said.

As per existing plans, the satellite is expected to exit the Earth’s orbit on November 26 and embark on the journey to Mars which is expected to last for around 300 days. The scientists have drawn up plans to insert the satellite in an orbit around Mars on September 22 next year.

“The previous missions to Mars have shown that there was water on the planet. We would want to know how and why the planet lost water and carbon dioxide,” Goswami told reporters on the sidelines of the 100th Indian Science Congress here. “Nobody has done research why water was lost. We are trying to do things which were not precisely or exactly done,” Goswami said.

Payload
Among the payloads for the mission is the Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyser which would study the Martian atmosphere and a Methane Sensor to look for of the gas, considered as a signature for life, on the planet.

“We want to know whether the source of methane is thermogenic or biogenic,” he said. The Thermal Infrared Imaging System would take pictures of the planet during the night.

Challenges

A key challenge before the scientists is navigating the spacecraft from the earth to Mars in deep space using the Deep Space Network at Baylalu on the outskirts of Bangalore.

Another challenge would be to re-activate the temporary inactive sub-systems of the spacecraft once it reaches Mars after a 10-month journey through deep space.

Orbiter
The liquid rocket engine, capable of generating a 440 Newton thrust, would be required to steer the spacecraft into the Martian orbit.

The spacecraft will have bi-propellant system using monomethylhydrazine and di-nitrogen tetroxide as fuel with additional safety and redundancy features for Mars orbit insertion.

The spacecraft, with a 1350 kg lift-off mass, will have a single solar array with three panels of 1400 x 1800 mm capable of generating 750 watts of power in the Martian orbit.

It will also be equipped with a 36 AH Lithium-ion battery for power storage.

For attitude and orbit control, the spacecraft will be equipped with four reaction wheels, eight thrusters of 22 Newton each and a 440 Newton liquid rocket engine.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130104/news-current-affairs/article/india-reaches-out-mars-october
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/04/2013 04:47 PM
Quote
“We should get the five payloads by March and we plan to start integrating them in the satellite from April,”

This sounds awfully tight to meet the October launch date (for comparison, what is the current integration status of MAVEN?).......  :o

Hopefully the Indian engineers and scientists aren't under too much pressure to meet the 2013 window - just as the Russians/Americans had learned the painful lesson of skipping whole system testing on Phobos-Grunt/MCO/MPL.........  :-X
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/04/2013 10:05 PM
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/05/2013 02:49 AM
Mars orbiter payloads: (information collected from internet)

1. Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyser (MENCA) 
MENCA (Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyser) is based on the technique of quadrupole mass spectrometry and it operates in the mass range of 1-300 amu. The scientific objective of MENCA is to explore the Martian exospheric neutral density and composition at an altitude of ~500 km and above from the surface of Mars and to examine its radial, diurnal, and seasonal variations. The low inclination of the proposed orbit will provide an opportunity to encounter Phobos, one of the two natural satellites of the Mars, on few occasions. This will enable to estimate the upper limits of the neutral density distribution around it. The study of Martian exosphere is important for understanding the escape rate of of Martian atmosphere and its impact on Mars’ climate change.

2. Lyman Alpha Photometer (LAP)
Measurement of atmospheric deuterium to hydrogen abundance ratio (D/H) is vital to examine the escape process of water in the current atmosphere and also understand the loss process of water in the evolutionary history of a planet. Lyman Alpha Photometer (LAP) is a miniaturized ultraviolet photometer primarily designed for D/H measurement of the upper atmosphere of Mars.

3. Methane Sensor for Mars (MSM)
It is designed to measure methane in the Martian atmosphere with ppb accuracy and map its sources. It is based on Fabry Perot (FP) etalon filters that work on the principle of multiple beam interferometry.

4. Thermal infrared Imaging Spectrometer (TIS)
It is a grating based spectromete that uses un-cooled micro-bolometer array as detectors. TIS will measure thermal emissions from mars surface.

5. Mars Color Camera (MCC)
It is designed to work in the visible range (0.4 micron- 0.7 micron) and is optimized to work from a highly elliptical orbit 500 x 80,000 km.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 01/05/2013 03:04 AM
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/01040907-isro-mars-update.html

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-mission-launch-in-october/article4272603.ece

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-set-to-launch-Mars-mission-in-November/articleshow/17895263.cms

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mars-mission-gets-october-2013-launch-date-deadline-as-india-reaches-out-to-the-stars/1054576/0

http://spaceref.com/mars/curiousmars-2013-to-debut-u-s-and-indian-mars-atmospheric-orbiters-while-challenging-china-in-asian.html
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/06/2013 05:03 PM
Mars orbiter payloads (Total wight = 14.49 kg):

1. Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyser (MENCA)  wt = 4 kg
MENCA (Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyser) is based on the technique of quadrupole mass spectrometry and it operates in the mass range of 1-300 amu. The scientific objective of MENCA is to explore the Martian exospheric neutral density and composition at an altitude of ~500 km and above from the surface of Mars and to examine its radial, diurnal, and seasonal variations. The low inclination of the proposed orbit will provide an opportunity to encounter Phobos, one of the two natural satellites of the Mars, on few occasions. This will enable us to estimate the upper limits of the neutral density distribution around it. The study of Martian exosphere is important for understanding the escape rate of of Martian atmosphere and its impact on Mars’ climate change.

2. Lyman Alpha Photometer (LAP) wt = 1.5 kg
Measurement of atmospheric deuterium to hydrogen abundance ratio (D/H) is vital to examine the escape process of water in the current atmosphere and also understand the loss process of water in the evolutionary history of a planet. Lyman Alpha Photometer (LAP) is a miniaturized ultraviolet photometer primarily designed for D/H measurement of the upper atmosphere of Mars. LAP will measure the present day D/H ratio that will be compared with the original D/H ratio estimated from observing pristine comets and asteroids. The comparison will tell us how much hydrogen and therefore water has been lost over the life time of the planet.

3. Methane Sensor for Mars (MSM) wt = 3.59 kg
It is designed to measure methane in the Martian atmosphere with ppb accuracy and map its sources. It is based on Fabry Perot (FP) etalon filters that work on the principle of multiple beam interferometry.

4. Thermal infrared Imaging Spectrometer (TIS) wt = 4 kg
It is a grating based spectrometer that uses un-cooled micro-bolometer array as detectors. TIS will measure thermal emissions from mars surface.

5. Mars Color Camera (MCC) wt = 1.4 kg
It is designed to work in the visible range (0.4 micron- 0.7 micron) and is optimized to work from a highly elliptical orbit 500 x 80,000 km.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/india-scales-down-mars-mission/article4279757.ece

I feel the current proposed orbit 500x80,000 might have changed as the payload weight has come down from previous 25 kgs to roughly 15 kgs allowing for more fuel that in turn will allow for orbit corrections at Mars.  or they are adding more redundancy features and autonomous capabilities to the orbiter.   

Mars Orbiter replica
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Satori on 01/07/2013 10:37 AM
From Xinhua, India scales down experimental flying payloads for exploring Mars (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2013-01/06/c_132084250.htm).
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 01/08/2013 09:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQIF9gvLKc
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/08/2013 05:15 PM
From NDTV video
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: Star One on 01/08/2013 05:37 PM
This all seems very rushed I hope this aspect doesn't come back to haunt them.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/08/2013 06:19 PM
This all seems very rushed I hope this aspect doesn't come back to haunt them.


ISRO and other concerned institutions are trying there best to meet the 2013 launch window. Its a technology demonstration mission. What ever may be the outcome, the learning will help in the future missions.

The main challenges ISRO is looking to overcome are:

Radiation shielding: In the Mars mission, the orbiter  will have to face prolonged radiation in the Van Allen belt. This necessitates augmented  radiation shielding for the orbiter.

In-built autonomy: Due to the large distance of 55-400 million km between Earth and Mars, there is a one way communication delay of 20 minutes. This necessitates high order of autonomy in-built within Mars orbiter.

Robust and reliable subsystems: Mars orbiter will take 300 days to reach the Mars where its subsystems will be switched on again. This demands robust and reliable subsystems design for the success of the mission. Particularly, propulsion system that will have to work again after 300 days of journey to Mars.

Mars orbit capture: Mars orbit insertion is the most critical part of the mission that will decide its success.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 01/08/2013 11:39 PM
It's always good to be pushing the envelope, because that let's you know where your deficiencies are.

Plus it's good practice for future lunar missions, since Mars is harder to reach and operate at across a distance.

At $80M, it's not like ISRO is risking the half-billion-dollar cost of NASA's Mars missions. And if it's successful, it could pave the way for more such low-cost missions.

I didn't realize the Van Allen belt exposure would be higher for this mission as compared to Chandrayaan lunar mission. Is it because Trans-Mars-Injection has to be done from a higher Earth orbit than Trans-Lunar-Injection?
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/09/2013 04:39 AM

I didn't realize the Van Allen belt exposure would be higher for this mission as compared to Chandrayaan lunar mission. Is it because Trans-Mars-Injection has to be done from a higher Earth orbit than Trans-Lunar-Injection?

My guess, It is to do with the radiation exposure duration. Chandrayaan TLI took place after 14 days. During this period, the craft was passing through the belt. In the case of Mangalyaan, TMI will take place after close to 30 days (assuming Oct 23 launch and Nov 26 TMI), so much longer exposure duration.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: sanman on 01/10/2013 11:09 PM
So I guess the spiral out to TMI is longer than the spiral out to TLI, thus resulting in the greater duration of Van Allen Belt exposure.
Title: Re: ISRO Preps for 2013 Mars Mission
Post by: antriksh on 01/11/2013 03:51 AM
From what I have gleaned from the net about the orbits, the final apogees before insertion are 267,000 km for CH and 215,000 km for MA. The perigees are 250 km for CH and 600 km for MA.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 02/11/2013 04:10 AM
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/26/2013 06:07 AM
Informative short paper about the mission to be presented on the 44th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/pdf/2760.pdf (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/pdf/2760.pdf)
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Star One on 03/01/2013 04:06 PM
Is there any possibility this mission will be delayed because of concerns over the comet approaching Mars and any difficulties it may cause even with a near miss?
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/02/2013 06:00 AM
I think its very unlikely that a comet will stop ISRO launching the probe. More likely are technical problems on the ground.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Star One on 03/02/2013 09:23 AM
I think its very unlikely that a comet will stop ISRO launching the probe. More likely are technical problems on the ground.

True. It's a very tight schedule they have set themselves, reminds me of the early days of Soviet interplanetary exploration.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: sanman on 03/02/2013 03:21 PM
Well, like Tito & Co, they are racing to meet a planetary alignment deadline.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/30/2013 03:51 AM
Maybe flying to Mars is easier than I thought.....  :P

From Twitter some minutes ago:

Quote
Pradeep ‏@pradx
India's Mars orbiter payloads to be handed over to Bangalore tmrw for tests and integration. Spacecraft progressing per timeline.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: sanman on 04/08/2013 04:31 AM
ISRO ponders delaying Mars mission over fears of comet:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1819996/report-dna-exclusive-comet-mars-isro-s-rs450cr-dream-mission
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/08/2013 04:41 AM
ISRO ponders delaying Mars mission over fears of comet:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1819996/report-dna-exclusive-comet-mars-isro-s-rs450cr-dream-mission

Well if the reporters aren't exaggerating (somehow I think they are though  ::)) then someone at ISRO needs to be fired for using bizzare reasons for delaying a mission, either for cover up of other schedule delays or not using common sense.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Star One on 04/10/2013 07:46 PM
ISRO ponders delaying Mars mission over fears of comet:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1819996/report-dna-exclusive-comet-mars-isro-s-rs450cr-dream-mission

Curious doesn't seem to bothering NASA or ESA and their craft.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/11/2013 06:09 AM
ISRO ponders delaying Mars mission over fears of comet:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1819996/report-dna-exclusive-comet-mars-isro-s-rs450cr-dream-mission

Well if the reporters aren't exaggerating (somehow I think they are though  ::)) then someone at ISRO needs to be fired for using bizzare reasons for delaying a mission, either for cover up of other schedule delays or not using common sense.

I took a look at the article - the reason given is hilarious: the methane sensor (one of the science instruments on board) may have recorded those CH4 et al. particles from the comet tail instead of Mars, thus contaiminating the data. Seriously - that's a problem!? That spacecraft may have the closest pass to the comet of all Mars orbiters - by far, and the Indians think that's an issue? They are actually in the prime position for gathering some data on the comet by luck.....

Can any experts on trace gas detection shed some light on the excuse?
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: sanman on 04/18/2013 03:18 AM
Mars Orbiter on track, comet no deterrent: ISRO chief

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Mars-Orbiter-on-track-comet-no-deterrent-Isro-chief/articleshow/19606336.cms
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/18/2013 03:24 AM
Mars Orbiter on track, comet no deterrent: ISRO chief

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Mars-Orbiter-on-track-comet-no-deterrent-Isro-chief/articleshow/19606336.cms

Yeah, the explanation in the article above is lousy at best....

Wondering if it actually shows that the final testing is behind schedule a la Phobos Grunt in 2009.....  ::)
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: sanman on 04/18/2013 03:37 AM
I don't know where you're going, man. If they've made an announcement, it's to quell speculation. The previous article that I posted before about the comet was itself just speculation, and not citing any named source at ISRO. That happens a lot in the Indian media - pretty routine.

Anyway, I'll keep my fingers crossed for November, and we'll see how things work out.

Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/18/2013 03:44 AM
I don't know where you're going, man. If they've made an announcement, it's to quell speculation. The previous article that I posted before about the comet was itself just speculation, and not citing any named source at ISRO. That happens a lot in the Indian media - pretty routine.

Anyway, I'll keep my fingers crossed for November, and we'll see how things work out.



Same here. Even from the science return perspective this mission may return some new information on Mars (methane trace gases), not to mention this may serve as a benchmark on the Indian ability to develop and operate complex spacecrafts.

BTW I have seen many names for the spacecraft - is the "Mangalyaan" moniker unofficial?
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: sanman on 04/18/2013 08:10 PM
Haha, I think it depends on who one talks to.

In the wake of Chandrayaan ( "Chand" = Moon, "yaan" = chariot/craft), when the Mars mission was announced, then some watchers took to a similar naming convention ("Mangal" = Mars). So the nickname "Mangalyaan" was adopted.

But I think people at ISRO formally call it "Mars Orbiter Mission" (MOM).

But yeah, I think methane results would be useful to corroborate against what NASA will get from its latest MAVEN probe. Multiple sources of data are best.

It's too bad that ISRO won't be able to try another bistatic test with NASA, as was attempted between Chandrayaan and LRO (didn't work out due to Chandrayaan system failure under lunar-reflected radiation).
Bistatic radar response would be an excellent way to find water ice, due to its unique signature.

Oh well, hopefully some future missions will attempt this. In order to produce a detailed map of Martian ice.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 27, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 04/22/2013 02:07 AM
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 27, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/22/2013 04:19 PM
IIRC, the November 27 date is actually the day the spacecraft should made its final TMI burn. Since it needs several burns to get it out of Earth's orbit, I suggest keeping the October date for the launch itself.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 27, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 04/22/2013 04:47 PM
IIRC, the November 27 date is actually the day the spacecraft should made its final TMI burn. Since it needs several burns to get it out of Earth's orbit, I suggest keeping the October date for the launch itself.

Quote from the Time of India article dated April 18 (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-04-18/science/38646117_1_mars-orbiter-mission-martian-dust-storms-methane-sensor):
Quote
The Mars Orbiter, set to be launched on November 27...
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 27, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/22/2013 04:51 PM
IIRC, the November 27 date is actually the day the spacecraft should made its final TMI burn. Since it needs several burns to get it out of Earth's orbit, I suggest keeping the October date for the launch itself.

Quote from the Time of India article dated April 18 (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-04-18/science/38646117_1_mars-orbiter-mission-martian-dust-storms-methane-sensor):
Quote
The Mars Orbiter, set to be launched on November 27...

Yeah I saw that one - but I specifically remember an earlier news report that gave the October 25 launch date with November 27 as the TMI burn date - you might check the earlier posts here for confirmation.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 25, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 04/22/2013 07:25 PM
I specifically remember an earlier news report that gave the October 25 launch date with November 27 as the TMI burn date
OK, let's try October again: an official from ISRO recently said (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-beckons-isro-orbiter-taking-shape/article4559157.ece) that "the satellite is expected to exit the Earth orbit on November 26/27"
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 2013
Post by: input~2 on 05/02/2013 06:37 AM
ISRO Chairman said the Mars Orbiter was set to be launched in November (http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-tamilnadu/mars-orbiter-on-schedule-isro-chief/article4675180.ece)
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 2013
Post by: sanman on 05/20/2013 05:44 PM
Here's a new article on the Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM):

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?contentId=14101697&programId=1073755753&tabId=13&categoryId=-201541


and also an interview with ISRO chief Radhakrishnan in which he comments about various topics, including the Mars mission:

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?contentId=14101698&programId=1073755753&tabId=13&categoryId=-201541

Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, November 2013
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 05/21/2013 07:08 AM
Thanks Sanman! The article says the following about the launch date:

“We will have to launch the rocket on October 22, so that it can depart the Earth's orbit on November 26 and enter the Martian orbit on September 21, 2014.”
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 22, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 05/21/2013 07:42 AM
Thanks. I have now corrected the planned launch date in the title of this thread.
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 22, 2013
Post by: Star One on 05/23/2013 07:17 PM
Thanks for those interesting articles Sanman. This is certainly an extraordinarily ambitious mission for them to attempt and you can only wish them the best of luck with it. 
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 22, 2013
Post by: sanman on 05/29/2013 05:59 AM
Another article on the Mars Orbiter Mission:

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130529/news-current-affairs/article/isro-readies-launch-orbiter-mars-not-so-fast-say-ministers?page=show
Title: Re: ISRO Mars Mission, PSLV C25, October 22, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 06/14/2013 03:05 AM

 1) The integration of the spacecraft purse, comprising the structure and several sub-systems, including power systems, controlling systems, telemetry and command systems, has begun at the Isro Satellite Centre

2) This process is likely to take another four weeks, following which the integration of the payloads will commence. “We will move the satellite and the spacecraft to Sriharikota by September, from where it will be launched.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/338379/india039s-mars-mission-takes-shape.html
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 22, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 06/26/2013 03:47 AM
"Nasa is providing the deep space navigation and tracking support to this mission during the non-visible period of the Indian Deep Space Network," said a US state department announcement.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Nasa-to-partner-Isro-in-Indias-Mars-mission/articleshow/20769793.cms
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 22, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 06/28/2013 06:54 PM
Caution: high resolution
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 07/01/2013 07:12 PM
I heard a tentative launch date of October 21 for PSLV C25 during the post-C22 launch speeches on July 1
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 12:11 AM
Been following this a little, still amazed at how ambitious this is for India! As with others, I wish them the best of luck as someone told me Mars is a tricky place to get to;).
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 12:17 AM
Also, a question on an observation I have made: will the orbiter have a single solar array or two? The first picture on the first page posted by sanman appears to have two solar arrays and then on page 6 antriksh posted a picture (mom1.jpg) and in it, it says power would be provided by one solar array. Is the first picture of the orbiter just wrong?

EDIT: Panel/Array confusion; my bad.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 07/02/2013 02:53 AM
Also, a question on an observation I have made: will the orbiter have a single solar array or two? The first picture on the first page posted by sanman appears to have two solar arrays and then on page 6 antriksh posted a picture (mom1.jpg) and in it, it says power would be provided by one solar array. Is the first picture of the orbiter just wrong?

Mars orbiter will have a single solar array of 3 solar panels. (MOM5.jpg)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 03:20 AM
Mars orbiter will have a single solar array of 3 solar panels. (MOM5.jpg)

Ahhhh thanks. Got my solar array and solar panels confused ::). Dumb me! :)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: AJA on 07/02/2013 05:09 PM
Can someone expand the acronyms in the ISRO brochure picture below? I didn't get SPDM (in the context of the Solar Arrays), CASS, SPSS (I assume it's Solar Position Sensor ___ ?), LE (as in the 440 N thruster), and CCSDS, BDH, SSR, TTC (Telemetry and Telecommand?) in the context of communications...

Also, which one of those five pictured payloads can perform Plasma and current experiments? Or are they going to use the radio antennae to measure the electromagnetic environment local to the orbit? And why is the spectromer called "neutral"? Any mass-spec has to ionise the entering species (or use ionised species entering the aperture) in order to resolve them..

Btw, IIRC, we first had to raise the orbit, and even then lost Chandrayaan 1 earlier than scheduled because of some thermal issues right? Does anyone have a link to the official ISRO analysis report? AFAIK, Chandrayaan didn't have any active Thermal management systems - and that doesn't seem to have changed for Mangalyaan either. If our thermal modelling for the fairly unique, and highly elliptical orbit that our Mars orbiter is going to use is similarly off - as it was for the Lunar orbit, we're risking a premature shutdown here. Again.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: sanman on 07/02/2013 06:57 PM
Can someone expand the acronyms in the ISRO brochure picture below? I didn't get SPDM (in the context of the Solar Arrays), CASS, SPSS (I assume it's Solar Position Sensor ___ ?), LE (as in the 440 N thruster), and CCSDS, BDH, SSR, TTC (Telemetry and Telecommand?) in the context of communications...

Also, which one of those five pictured payloads can perform Plasma and current experiments? Or are they going to use the radio antennae to measure the electromagnetic environment local to the orbit? And why is the spectromer called "neutral"? Any mass-spec has to ionise the entering species (or use ionised species entering the aperture) in order to resolve them..

Btw, IIRC, we first had to raise the orbit, and even then lost Chandrayaan 1 earlier than scheduled because of some thermal issues right? Does anyone have a link to the official ISRO analysis report? AFAIK, Chandrayaan didn't have any active Thermal management systems - and that doesn't seem to have changed for Mangalyaan either. If our thermal modelling for the fairly unique, and highly elliptical orbit that our Mars orbiter is going to use is similarly off - as it was for the Lunar orbit, we're risking a premature shutdown here. Again.

Somehow I don't think overheating will be an issue for a Mars orbiter, since it's a good deal farther from the Sun. Even though Mars has a higher albedo than our own Moon (.15 vs .12), the solar flux hitting the Moon is 1367.6 W/m^2 while for Mars it's 591.3 W/m^2, which is less than half.
Besides, the MOM will have a highly elliptical orbit, which only brings it to within 580km of Mars on its closest approach. That's much higher than Chandrayaan-1's 100km orbit.

Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: sanman on 07/03/2013 03:55 AM
This is a Mars feature from Newsclick India from 10 months ago, which talks about NASA's Curiosity mission, and also about ISRO's planned Mars Orbiter Mission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJjWCURsMwQ
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: AJA on 07/03/2013 06:49 AM
Somehow I don't think overheating will be an issue for a Mars orbiter, since it's a good deal farther from the Sun. Even though Mars has a higher albedo than our own Moon (.15 vs .12), the solar flux hitting the Moon is 1367.6 W/m^2 while for Mars it's 591.3 W/m^2, which is less than half.
Besides, the MOM will have a highly elliptical orbit, which only brings it to within 580km of Mars on its closest approach. That's much higher than Chandrayaan-1's 100km orbit.

Here ( http://www.slideshare.net/IngesAerospace/2-spacecraft-thermal-environments - page 56) they model the temperature of a reference sphere (an isothermal, black body - I assume using Wein's displacement law) for a Mars orbital height of a tenth of the planet's radius (~386 km). With spatially varying albedo (polar ice caps etc.), as well as Mars' orbital eccentricity, the worst case range of instantaneous temperature (aka min-max), over a single orbit is found to span 111 K to 284 K: for an zero solar beta angle, at perihelion). Even at apphelion, the temperature range for the same orbit remains at around 150K, from the same minimum. And average temperature: ~200K. Numerically, that's a decent sized swing, centred around some electron-stopping cold. I don't know if this gets accentuated or attenuated in Mangalyaan's planned orbit.

I don't know if they've got any heat pipes (http://www.thermalengineer.com/library/heatpipes.html), as they're also considered passive. But yeah, with the external 'temperatures' being low, they're relying exclusively on the heat of instrument operation to self-provide the environment they (and the reaction wheels) need. Which means that the spacecraft will have to be really well insulated. (cf, one of the non-special-purpose 741 has a 218 K lower temp limit). Also, what happens if they're required to turn off one of the instruments to prevent damage to it, or to prevent battery drain? Alternatively, can they operate all of them simultaneously without overheating? The mass-spec probably generates quite a bit when on. What's on my mind is that there's nothing dedicated to this function. Oh well..

Unless of course, they've designed and manufactured electronics that operates at similar external temperatures and don't need blankets. That'd be awesome - a scalable solution capable of doing away with the mass of these systems on future missions.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: sanman on 07/09/2013 04:31 AM
So, launch near end of October, and Earth departure near end of November:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1858148/report-isro-gears-up-for-ambitious-mars-mission


AvWeek:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_07_04_2013_p0-593978.xml
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 07/21/2013 11:16 AM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
Post by: Salo on 07/21/2013 07:11 PM
http://zeenews.india.com/news/space/mars-mission-not-for-pride-we-mean-business-isro_863654.html
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/24/2013 04:09 PM
An excellent book on Indian Mars Mission can be found here:
http://rd.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-81-322-1521-9/page/1

Very good material and it's freely accessible at this moment.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: plutogno on 07/25/2013 06:10 PM
not everybody is happy with the Mars mission
http://www.firstpost.com/india/mars-mission-is-a-publicity-stunt-former-isro-chief-madhavan-nair-982779.html
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 07/26/2013 03:19 AM
not everybody is happy with the Mars mission
http://www.firstpost.com/india/mars-mission-is-a-publicity-stunt-former-isro-chief-madhavan-nair-982779.html

 All the detractors are harping on one point that not much can be done with 15 kg of scientific payloads without trying to understand that this mission is a low cost technology & capability demonstration mission rather than a scientific mission.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: Dalhousie on 07/27/2013 12:38 AM
Or that quite a bit can be achieved with 15 kg if it collects that that has not been collected before.

Some of the criticism is quite risible, about the orbit for example.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 07/27/2013 04:24 PM
Or that quite a bit can be achieved with 15 kg if it collects that that has not been collected before.

Some of the criticism is quite risible, about the orbit for example.

Main objective of this mission is to demonstrate the capability of putting a probe around Mars. Its like a low cost capability demonstration mission before ISRO undertakes more costly missions with heavier orbiters.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: sanman on 07/27/2013 05:23 PM
It's too bad a larger payload couldn't have been launched. On the other hand, it's a perfectly good launch window that shouldn't go to waste, since it won't be around for another 3 years after that.

Using this window to test out navigating a minimal science payload to Mars orbit can perhaps be better than risking a bigger, more expensive payload on the first time out. After all, it will allow ISRO to get a better idea of the issues to be encountered along the way, unlike how they were caught off guard by lunar-reflected radiation which ultimately destroyed the Chandrayaan-1 orbiter.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: sanman on 07/28/2013 01:47 AM
Mars payload integration begins on Monday:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/347560/mars-project-payload-integration-begin.html
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 08/28/2013 02:31 AM
Static test of PSOM XL for Mars mission successful

The Shar scientists have successfully conducted some vital static tests for strap-on motor (PSOM-XL) related to PSLV-C25/Mars mission at Satish Dhawan Space Centre at 4.35 pm on Monday. The mission is scheduled for launch in October this year. Tests were conducted in presence of the ISRO chairman, Dr K. Radhakrishnan.

The objectives of the test include evaluation on the adequacy of PSOM-XL type motor (which was already used in the launch of PSLV-C11, C17 and C19 flights earlier). PSLV-C11 was the one used for India’s first Moon Mission ‘Chandrayaan-1’.

The ignition transient performance of PSOM-XL motor with RLV-SB igniter was also evaluated apart from ballistic performance of the motor. A test to revalidate the effectiveness of water based Post Fire Quenching/Cooling System at PSOM-XL level was also one of the objectives of the test held on Monday.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130827/news-current-affairs/article/static-test-mars-mission-successful
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 08/30/2013 12:53 AM
Mars mission spacecraft clears Thermo-vaccum test

"The test went off flawlessly. There were no problems either with the payloads or the spacecraft," an Isro official told TOI on Wednesday.

In the next phase, the spacecraft will be subjected to an acoustic and vibration test to assess its response again in a simulated launch environment. "Once this is completed, the spacecraft will be moved to Sriharikota sometime in the middle of September," the official said.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: AJA on 08/30/2013 11:07 AM
Mars mission spacecraft clears Thermo-vaccum test

"The test went off flawlessly. There were no problems either with the payloads or the spacecraft," an Isro official told TOI on Wednesday.

In the next phase, the spacecraft will be subjected to an acoustic and vibration test to assess its response again in a simulated launch environment. "Once this is completed, the spacecraft will be moved to Sriharikota sometime in the middle of September," the official said.

from http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-08-29/science/41579438_1_spacecraft-five-payloads-isro-official

Does anyone know if LV assembly has begun?

Also, about the PSOM-XL water based Post Fire Quenching/Cooling mechanism: Seems like they're evaluating what happens when the boosters are dunked in water. Why? Are they planning on making the solid motors reusable? Or is the Quenching/Cooling for pad infrastructure?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: K210 on 09/01/2013 11:40 AM
Mars mission spacecraft clears Thermo-vaccum test

"The test went off flawlessly. There were no problems either with the payloads or the spacecraft," an Isro official told TOI on Wednesday.

In the next phase, the spacecraft will be subjected to an acoustic and vibration test to assess its response again in a simulated launch environment. "Once this is completed, the spacecraft will be moved to Sriharikota sometime in the middle of September," the official said.

from http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-08-29/science/41579438_1_spacecraft-five-payloads-isro-official

Does anyone know if LV assembly has begun?

Also, about the PSOM-XL water based Post Fire Quenching/Cooling mechanism: Seems like they're evaluating what happens when the boosters are dunked in water. Why? Are they planning on making the solid motors reusable? Or is the Quenching/Cooling for pad infrastructure?
LV assembly began on august 4th, PSLV C-25 is being readied for a late october/early november launch.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: isro-watch on 09/01/2013 10:17 PM
Mars mission spacecraft clears Thermo-vaccum test

"The test went off flawlessly. There were no problems either with the payloads or the spacecraft," an Isro official told TOI on Wednesday.

In the next phase, the spacecraft will be subjected to an acoustic and vibration test to assess its response again in a simulated launch environment. "Once this is completed, the spacecraft will be moved to Sriharikota sometime in the middle of September," the official said.

from http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-08-29/science/41579438_1_spacecraft-five-payloads-isro-official

Does anyone know if LV assembly has begun?

Also, about the PSOM-XL water based Post Fire Quenching/Cooling mechanism: Seems like they're evaluating what happens when the boosters are dunked in water. Why? Are they planning on making the solid motors reusable? Or is the Quenching/Cooling for pad infrastructure?

My source tells me of a problem they faced in PSOM-XL motor in IRNSS-1 flight !!! ISRO wanted to verify the motor's starting sequence
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/01/2013 11:36 PM
My source tells me of a problem they faced in PSOM-XL motor in IRNSS-1 flight !!! ISRO wanted to verify the motor's starting sequence

Huh. That explains the motor evaluation. But I still can't make sense of Post-Fire quenching.

Anyway, what happened?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: sanman on 09/07/2013 12:20 AM
India set to launch Mars mission in November: UR Rao

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/india-set-to-launch-mars-mission-in-november-ur-rao_874760.html


Quote
Rao outlined nine challenges for the space programme: food security, energy security, environmental security, resource security, space security, space transportation, search for life, exploring universe and colonisation of Mars.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: isro-watch on 09/08/2013 04:07 AM
My source tells me of a problem they faced in PSOM-XL motor in IRNSS-1 flight !!! ISRO wanted to verify the motor's starting sequence

Huh. That explains the motor evaluation. But I still can't make sense of Post-Fire quenching.

Anyway, what happened?

It appears that one of the strap-on motors did not start on time and had a small time lag before it started up...
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/09/2013 02:01 PM



PSLV expected to be ready for spacecraft integration on October 10.
Thermo-vacuum testing completed, orbiter to be unveiled next week


http://www.deccanherald.com/content/355807/isro-unveil-mars-orbitor-mission.html (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/355807/isro-unveil-mars-orbitor-mission.html)




I'm slightly confused as to what unveiling means. Are they talking about the release of an official press kit / DECU film?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: chota on 09/10/2013 12:30 PM
Quote


I'm slightly confused as to what unveiling means. Are they talking about the release of an official press kit / DECU film?

The media will be shown the spacecraft inside the clean room, where it is being built
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: go4mars on 09/10/2013 02:18 PM
India set to launch Mars mission in November: UR Rao

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/india-set-to-launch-mars-mission-in-november-ur-rao_874760.html


Quote
Rao outlined nine challenges for the space programme: food security, energy security, environmental security, resource security, space security, space transportation, search for life, exploring universe and colonisation of Mars.
Nice find.   A new meaning for the colloquial term "Indian Colony"!  Nicely done India.  Good form!
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 09/11/2013 12:04 PM
ISRO MARS ORBITER First Image
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 09/12/2013 03:04 AM
In a first, two civilian ships to support Mars orbiter launch

For the first time in the history of India's space flights, two civilian ships will play a supporting role in India's forthcoming flight to Mars designated as the Mars Orbiter Mission.

the current plans project that the 70-metre antenna of Nasa's deep space network at Canberra in Australia will acquire the first signal of the crucial Mars orbiter insertion in September 2014 after a nearly 300-day flight.


Lessons learnt from the Chandrayaan mission have been embedded into the Mars mission. "The powering system of the spacecraft has been changed

the mission had incorporated a number of redundant systems to ensure a successful Mars capture of the spacecraft. "The on-board autonomy called for the development of 68 new software modules,''

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/In-a-first-two-civilian-ships-to-support-Mars-orbiter-launch/articleshow/22503832.cms
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 09/12/2013 11:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yCIvNTEqJpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxEMUZit_Fw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQC4nomnJrE
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/21/2013 11:07 AM

Because ISRO keep mentioning the search for CH4 as one of the 'main goals', this recent news is relevant:

Curiosity doesn't detect Methane (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20130919.html)


- Six detection runs: presumably in slightly different locations, albeit all 'local' as opposed to global - when comparing a rover's and an orbiter's footprints. Nonetheless, they do say that even if localised methane (up to 45 ppb) had dispersed globally, it should've been above detection threshold.
- Upper limit for concentration established, based on their confidence in the measurement protocol, plus the sensitivity of the Tunable Laser Spectrometer (part of Sample Analysis at Mars) is 1.3 ppb (One sixth of previous estimates)


Uniquely,
Quote
The laboratory also can concentrate any methane to increase the gas' ability to be detected. The rover team will use this method to check for methane at concentrations well below 1 part per billion.


... so the window's probably open on lower concentrations.


Anyway, my question is: Does anyone know of the figure of sensitivity for our CH4 detector on the orbiter? Or even the precision of the Fabry-Perot Etalon interferometer that we're using in the instrument?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21 - November 7, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/22/2013 01:04 PM
Launch now planned on October 28: http://www.hindustantimes.com/HTNext/ZanyScience/India-s-Mars-Mission-lift-off-date-pushed-ahead-by-a-week/Article1-1125600.aspx (http://www.hindustantimes.com/HTNext/ZanyScience/India-s-Mars-Mission-lift-off-date-pushed-ahead-by-a-week/Article1-1125600.aspx)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: Star One on 09/22/2013 02:10 PM
It gets a bit of a mention in this new BBC news article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24165219
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: plutogno on 09/23/2013 06:57 AM
Launch now planned on October 28

any idea of the reason for this delay?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/28/2013 03:17 AM
I don't think there was ever a launch date mentioned. I don't think the media get pork-chop / tree-ring diagrams. This is the first launch date mentioned, although the window's been mentioned.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: Star One on 09/28/2013 10:15 AM

I don't think there was ever a launch date mentioned. I don't think the media get pork-chop / tree-ring diagrams. This is the first launch date mentioned, although the window's been mentioned.

Whenever I have seen any kind of timeframe mentioned for this it has usually just said October without any specific date being given.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 09/30/2013 03:32 AM
Interview with Dr V. Adimurthy, Senior Advisor (Interplanetary Missions), ISRO,
and Dean (R & D) at the Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology (IIST).


Edit by mod: not reproduced for copyright reason
(Source (http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/461/bbm%253A978-81-322-1521-9%252F1.pdf?auth66=1380712324_5c831c451671dde3edffcf40660f9132&ext=.pdf))
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/30/2013 03:51 AM
What's the daily launch window for October 28 and beyond?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 10/02/2013 02:22 AM
"The spacecraft has cleared all environmental tests and will now be moved to Sriharikota in a special container with environmental monitoring system. It will reach Sriharikota by Thursday afternoon,” Isro chairman Dr K Radhakrishnan said.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Spacecraft-for-Mars-to-reach-Sriharikota-today-for-tests/Article1-1129894.aspx
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 10/02/2013 08:53 AM
What's the daily launch window for October 28 and beyond?

According to http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Spacecraft-for-Mars-to-reach-Sriharikota-today-for-tests/Article1-1129894.aspx (http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Spacecraft-for-Mars-to-reach-Sriharikota-today-for-tests/Article1-1129894.aspx), the launch time is 10:45 UTC (4:15 pm local) - the spacecraft has just been transported to the launch site yesterday night.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: AJA on 10/03/2013 04:24 AM

Quote
India's Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) spacecraft was shipped out of the city today for the October 28 launch from the Sriharikota spaceport, setting the stage for final preparations for the odyssey to the red planet. "It was put in a special container where we have the monitoring of the environment inside", an official of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) told PTI here. Accompanied by a convoy, the truck-trailer carrying the container is currently on its way by road Sriharikota, where it's slated to reach tomorrow afternoon. Gandhi Jayanti day was chosen for the journey as traffic would be less.

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/mars-spacecraft-shipped-out-of-bangalore-for-oct-28-mission-113100200583_1.html (http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/mars-spacecraft-shipped-out-of-bangalore-for-oct-28-mission-113100200583_1.html)


Doesn't SHAR have an airstrip?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/03/2013 07:54 AM
ISRO site updated

Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/03/2013 08:01 AM

Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/05/2013 12:01 PM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 10/05/2013 02:16 PM
NASA DSN stations may not be available to support MOM during the early phases of the mission
http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/1898741/report-us-shutdown-may-mar-india-s-mars-mission
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/US-govt-shutdown-may-force-Isro-to-delay-October-28-Mars-mission-launch-by-2-years/articleshow/23546498.cms
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/05/2013 03:38 PM
India’s October 28 Mars mission on schedule: ISRO



http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/indias-october-28-mars-mission-on-schedule-isro/article5204371.ece
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: sanman on 10/05/2013 09:01 PM


Quote
There has been no communication from NASA to ISRO saying that it would not support the Indian mission, sources said.

It's better to verify explicitly, rather than to assume
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: sanman on 10/06/2013 11:37 PM
NASA seems to have given assurances to ISRO on support for the mission:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Nasa-reaffirms-support-to-Indias-Mars-orbiter-mission-Isro/articleshow/23602788.cms
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/07/2013 02:20 AM
ISRO should go for dedicated ships to cover blind spots during such missions.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: Star One on 10/07/2013 03:24 PM

ISRO should go for dedicated ships to cover blind spots during such missions.

Probably not worth the expense at this time keeping in mind the current frequency of such missions.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: abhishek on 10/09/2013 08:05 AM
Friends whats the official name of the satellite ?

Media is calling it mangalyaan where are there is no mention of the term "mangalyaan" in isro press release.

The people at isro are calling it simply mars orbiter.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: Salo on 10/09/2013 01:16 PM
Mars orbiter mission (MOM):
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/mission-objective.aspx
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/09/2013 02:49 PM

ISRO should go for dedicated ships to cover blind spots during such missions.

Probably not worth the expense at this time keeping in mind the current frequency of such missions.


But this help from NASA is also not free. ISRO is paying roughly Rs 70 crores.

Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: abhishek on 10/10/2013 10:31 AM
friends,

will the mission get affected due to the tropic cyclone which will hit Andhra pradesh in next two days ?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/10/2013 12:16 PM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/16/2013 03:08 AM
Mars orbiter mission likely on Oct. 28

1. The date will be formally fixed on October 18 after readiness reviews across the launch centre, half-a-dozen international ground stations, tracking hub ISTRAC, the Indian Deep Space Network in Bangalore and the two ship-carrying-terminals that ISRO has deployed in the South Pacific, where the fourth and last stage of the launch will take place.

2. ISRO’s weather assessment gives it a 10-day clear time within the overall period of October 28–November 19

3. There is now a system moving in the South Pacific and ISRO has to monitor it. These are part of operational challenges.

4. The mission readiness review team and the Launch Authorisation Board are due to meet on October 17. The spacecraft will be put on the launcher on October 18 and another round of readiness checks will be done on the combined entity.


Source: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/mars-orbiter-mission-likely-on-oct-28/article5237981.ece?homepage=true
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/16/2013 03:13 AM
India sails into Fiji for space mission

1. An 18-member team of top scientists and engineers from India's International Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is in the country to pave the way for India's first-ever satellite mission to the Red Planet later this month.

2. one ship, which would monitor the tracking of the satellite, was in Fiji while another would arrive on Saturday.

Source: http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=248333

 ;D
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: sanman on 10/16/2013 08:56 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXUkP2bkyc
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: sanman on 10/16/2013 09:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60JKhlqy5Bg
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: AJA on 10/16/2013 04:30 PM
Does anyone know what's happening with the investigation into the prop leak from the 2nd stage of the GSLV whose launch was scrubbed recently? Since it's a common stage to both the GSLV and the PSLV, I'd have thought they would've wanted to rule out a manufacturing/design issue (and thereby green light the use of a whole batch of 2nd stage components) - before they go ahead and approve C-25.

Also, what's with the need for the tracking ships in the South Pacific? We've got a two week+ launch window, so we'll surely have the ability to loiter in the initial injected parking orbit for a fair number of revs, before the orbiter is tele-commanded to perform either the EBNs (expansion anybody?) or the TMI? Isn't the PSLV fully autonomous from launch to payload injection? Sure, it'd be nice to have unbroken, live telemetry - but bad weather which anchors the ships at port shouldn't be a showstopper suo motu.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/17/2013 03:31 AM
Being able to monitor critical burns is crucial for understanding what went wrong if something does go wrong. There have been many failures where there was no monitoring during critical propulsion or landing manoeuvres, e.g., Fobos-Grunt, Beagle 2, Mars Observer, Mars Polar Lander and CONTOUR. This makes trying to find the cause of the failure very difficult. Even knowing simple things like the time of the failure and speed of the spacecraft can be of great benefit. If something does go wrong, knowing what went wrong allows you to make corrections for the next mission. India should be commended for putting in the extra effort for the additional monitoring in the Pacific Ocean.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 10/17/2013 11:03 AM
Quote
“The exact date and time of the launch will be decided in a meeting today. So by tomorrow, we will get to know the exact time and date of the launch,”
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-begins-preparations-for-launch-of-indias-first-mars-mission/article5243641.ece
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/17/2013 04:01 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mTsTZCumVc
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/18/2013 02:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl2FKBTW3Q8
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/18/2013 02:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o16zI9aINg
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 28, 2013 (ETD 1045UTC)
Post by: m.prasad on 10/18/2013 03:56 PM
Launch delayed to 6th Nov evening...!
Pls refer  Eenadu - Telugu Paper (http://eenadu.net/news/newsitem.aspx?item=national&no=23)
Archive Link (http://archives.eenadu.net/10-18-2013/news/newsitem.aspx?item=national&no=23)

Thx
~Prasad
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 10/18/2013 08:10 PM
Thanks, Prasad!
"Launch  in the first week of November according to ISRO"
 source (http://www.andhrabhoomi.net/content/pslv) (in Telugu)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: sanman on 10/18/2013 10:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDGpRAkI_80
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: sanman on 10/18/2013 11:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXjuuOFPltg
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: antriksh on 10/19/2013 05:52 AM
India-US-orbiters-to-reach-Mars-within-24-hours-of-each-other



Missions Ahead

Quote
Isro is buzzing with activity - not just for MOM but also for a slew of projects, scheduled for the next five years. Kumar says that a successful Mars mission will not only boost India's confidence but also open doors for next-generation technology which will help future space endeavours. After Mangalyaan, ISRO is planning Chandrayaan II which will have a rover to collect and analyze samples from the lunar surface. India is also planning to launch its first dedicated astronomy satellite - ASTROSAT - after which the ambitious Aditya project will come into action. The project intends to study Coronal Mass Ejection (CME) from L1, one of the Lagrangian points between Sun and Earth which will facilitate the craft's remaining at the same position with least effort, for the observation.

About manned space missions, Kumar says it would be the next logical step. "We are slowly building capacity for it and I hope it culminates at an opportune time. Our immediate goal is to put man in orbit (Lower Earth Orbit). The next one will be to prolong the mission and later to conduct space flights," he said.

It seems there are two Aditya missions, Aditya 1 (800 Km orbit) & Aditya L1 (Lagrangian point)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/India-US-orbiters-to-reach-Mars-within-24-hours-of-each-other/articleshow/24354937.cms?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 10/19/2013 02:11 PM
India's Mars mission postponed by a week due to bad weather in Pacific Ocean (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-postponed-by-a-week-due-to-bad-weather-in-pacific-ocean-434425?curl=1382191614)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 10/19/2013 02:27 PM
Quote
...for tracking launch of PSLV XL C25/Mars Orbiter Mission, SCI Nalanda is required to be located around 19 degrees South latitude and 160 degrees West longitude while SCI Yamuna (second ship) is required to be positioned 20 degrees South latitude and 130 degrees West longitude
http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=248660
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 10/19/2013 02:45 PM
SCI YAMUNA
Destination19S 130W
ETA2013-10-27 09:00 UTC
Info Received2013-10-19 13:29

SCI NALANDA
DestinationSUVA.FIJI
ETA2013-10-18 13:00 UTC
Info Received2013-10-19 13:31
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 10/20/2013 01:12 PM
Mars launch setback as Isro finds snag onboard tracking ship (http://www.deccanchronicle.com/131020/news-current-affairs/article/mars-launch-setback-isro-finds-snag-onboard-tracking-ship)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: bolun on 10/22/2013 11:50 AM
India Mars launch stokes Asian space race with China

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24550971
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: sanman on 10/22/2013 01:16 PM
ISRO's Mars Orbiter and NASA's MAVEN may cruise to Mars together

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Isros-Orbiter-Nasas-Maven-may-cruise-together-to-Mars/articleshow/24507096.cms

I'm wondering if perhaps both probes might be able to take measurements while flying together? There may be certain phenomena they can jointly verify due to their mutual proximity while in transit.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 6, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 10/22/2013 02:46 PM
Reports today confirms that the new launch time is on November 5 at 09:06 UTC (2:36 pm local): http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Oct22_2013 (http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Oct22_2013)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/25/2013 03:03 AM
MOM on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/26/2013 05:26 AM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: AJA on 10/26/2013 12:32 PM
This discussion is WAY too early (and given that this is their maiden Mars mission - probably way too morbid: atleast I'm 95% sure that ISRO will say so), but I'm just putting this up here for future reference.


What are the End-of Scientific-Mission plans? (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31872.msg1112474#msg1112474) Notwithstanding my own reply (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31872.msg1112841#msg1112841) to the linked post, Would the relatively large eccentricity (that 80,000 km apo-ares, which - IIRC took some flak) - offer any significant improvement in Earth-Mars data-rates, if the orbiter joins the relay team? Especially since this is being touted as a technology demonstration mission...
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: Danderman on 10/26/2013 03:03 PM
No data relay is possible for MOM unless it is secretly carrying the appropriate transponder.

There really needs to be some sort of international convention so that Mars orbiters can operate together to form a network.

Title: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: Star One on 10/26/2013 05:44 PM
No data relay is possible for MOM unless it is secretly carrying the appropriate transponder.

There really needs to be some sort of international convention so that Mars orbiters can operate together to form a network.

Maybe because it's mostly an engineering test flight they didn't look into it.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 10/27/2013 05:52 AM
according to ISRO's facebook page:
The second ship SCI Nalanda also left Fiji islands for its designated position in the Pacific Ocean at around 12:00 UT on October 26, 2013, intended to track the upper stages of the PSLV C25 Launch of Mars Orbiter Mission.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 10/27/2013 09:17 AM
Positions of TTC ships according to AIS data:

SCI Yamuna: date Oct 26 1925UTC, S19.48764 W168.2404 Speed: 8.6 kt, Course: 90°
SCI Nalanda: date Oct 26 2100UTC S18.36061 E179.4911 Speed: 7.1kt, Course: 92°
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/27/2013 10:43 AM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 10/28/2013 08:24 AM
Navigational warnings
Danger zones should correspond to strap-on 1,2,3,4/strap-on 5,6/ 1st stage/fairing/2nd stage/3rd stage

241001 Z / OCT
...PSLV- C25 ROCKET LAUNCHING
SCHEDULED FROM LAUNCH PAD 13-43.9N 080-14.2E BETWEEN 0830 UTC TO 1200 UTC
FROM 05 NOV TO 07 NOV 13
2. DANGER AREAS ARE AS FOLLOWS
(A) DANGER ZONE–1
CIRCLE OF 10 NM AROUND THE LAUNCHER
(B) DANGER ZONE–2
(I) 13-45N 080-45E (II) 13-25N 080-40E
(III) 13-15N 081-25E (IV) 13-35N 081-30E
(C) DANGER ZONE – 3
(I) 13-30N 082-10E (II) 13-00N 082-05E
(III) 12-30N 084-00E (IV) 13-00N 084-05E
(D) DANGER ZONE – 4
(I) 13-00N 084-15E (II) 12-25N 084-10E
(III) 12-10N 085-05E (IV) 12-45N 085-10E
(E) DANGER ZONE – 5
(I) 11-50N 088-25E (II) 11-10N 088-15E
(III) 10-55N 089-10E (IV) 11-35N 089-20E
(F) DANGER ZONE – 6
(I) 10-30N 094-30E (II) 08-30N 094-30E
(III) 08-30N 095-40E (IV) 10-30N 095-40E
(G) DANGER ZONE – 7
(I) 17-00S 130-00W (II) 19-00S 130-00W
(III) 09-00S 090-00W (IV) 07-00S 090-00W
3. CAUTION ADVISED
4. CANCEL THIS MSG 071001 UTC NOV 13
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 10/28/2013 12:38 PM
Another brief article from Pallava Bagla, with embedded video:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/with-upcoming-mars-mission-india-looks-to-join-elite-club-438419
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 10/29/2013 09:37 AM
ISRO to begin countdown for India’s Mars Orbiter Mission on Sunday (http://www.firstpost.com/india/isro-to-begin-countdown-for-indias-mars-orbiter-mission-on-sunday-1200169.html)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 10/31/2013 06:41 AM
Peanuts, anybody? :)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/31/2013 06:45 AM
ISRO will lose 'sight' of Mars Orbiter before ships pick up signals

Officials at the Mission Control Centre at SDSC let on that the 'quiet' period will be between 15-20 minutes, "We will not be able to see the pitch, yaw, roll, corrections that the ships is making for that time. We will extrapolate its trajectory and hope that the on-board computer makes the corrections as programmed," said the official. The data will be logged and downloaded to ISRO's servers as soon as the ship's receivers pick up the telemetry signals from the ship.

Source: http://newindianexpress.com/nation/ISRO-will-lose-sight-of-Mars-Orbiter-before-ships-pick-up-signals/2013/10/30/article1864477.ece
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/31/2013 06:47 AM
Peanuts, anybody? :)
Yeah !!!  ;D
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/31/2013 07:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0-Ygp4ZzjYA
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: AJA on 10/31/2013 02:16 PM
UPDATE: Launch rehearsal that started at 6:08 IST today (0038 UTC) completed successfully.

Peanuts, anybody? :)

Is that you, or did JPL send that out to ISRO? Camaraderie win :)

Quick googling didn't give me anything... but I did find this summary of the various traditions written up for Curiosity's landing: http://zeenews.india.com/news/space/peanuts-eggs-and-pee-considered-good-luck-in-space-missions_793235.html
Quite a few things that I only learned today.

As far as ISRO traditions go.. I know that some Chairmen tend to visit the temples at Tirupati a few days before the launch. A standard good-luck / seeking-blessings puja for the vehicles/hardware (in addition to the Ramayana derived Ayudha Puja) is probably run of the mill too, and they've probably already crushed several lemons when they rolled the MLP/VAB (which pad is it launching from?). I'm envisioning a portly shaastri (priest) being taken up to the top of the mobile launch tower, to break a coconut, and sprinkle its water on; and apply vibhooti (sacred ash), and haldi (turmeric)-kumkum to the fairing. He'd probably feel denied too, a la Shepard - who wasn't allowed to 'kick the fins', when ISRO forbid him from tying the lemon-and-seven-chillies (http://www.indiamike.com/india/spirituality-and-religion-in-india-f54/7-chillies-and-a-lemon-t34637/) to any part of the vehicle and escort him off the pad :D (Note the contrast between Grissom's interpretation of tying a lemon to the Apollo 1 CM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_(automobile)))

Anyone have any info regarding space-mission specific rituals?

ISRO will lose 'sight' of Mars Orbiter before ships pick up signals

These ships just continue to astound. I'm assuming tracking the spacecraft while moving rapidly is not feasible? Even so, if you knew you were going to have an LOS, wouldn't you prefer to have it AFTER S/C injection, as opposed to during a coast prior to ignition of the last stage of your rocket? i.e. move both ships by the requisite amount, to the west? Unless of course, there's little/no time margin between S/C sep and nominal LOS by the second ship. Is it a case of faster-reacquisition of a bigger (4th stage+S/C) target with an additional (4th stage's) transmitter? Or a case of slower error propagation due to slower velocity earlier in the ascent?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 10/31/2013 03:36 PM

Peanuts, anybody? :)

Is that you, or did JPL send that out to ISRO? Camaraderie win :)



Taken from the Official FB page for MOM:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058#
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 10/31/2013 11:37 PM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/01/2013 09:45 PM
Oct 31, 2013

•Launch Rehearsal of PSLV-C25/Mars Orbiter Mission has been completed successfully in the afternoon on Oct 31, 2013.

•Launch Rehearsal of PSLV-C25/Mars Orbiter Mission commenced at 06:08 hrs (IST) on Oct 31, 2013 at First Launch Pad, SDSC SHAR.

•Vehicle systems powered and health is normal.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/01/2013 09:46 PM
Nov 01, 2013

•Launch Authorisation Board has approved & cleared the PSLV-C25/Mars Orbiter Mission launch on Nov 05, 2013 at 14:38 hrs (IST)

•56 and half hr countdown for launch will begin on Nov 03, 2013 at 06:08 hrs (IST)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/01/2013 09:51 PM
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/02/2013 04:32 AM
PSLV-C25 Brochure
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: dsmillman on 11/02/2013 12:30 PM
The brochures are available at:

http://isro.org/pslv-c25/brochure.aspx

Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/03/2013 04:32 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVDZT9FPuXw


Sorry to subject everyone to Mistahh Voiceovahh, but this is a fairly informative video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdcpihr-KR4
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/03/2013 11:07 AM
Pallav Bagla of NDTV gets some comments from NASA Chief Bolden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWyRhQzlEc
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/03/2013 03:12 PM
BBC Q&A with ISRO Chief Radhakrishnan:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24772147
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/03/2013 03:16 PM
MAVEN and MOM

http://www.universetoday.com/105772/maven-and-mom-missions-from-nasa-and-india-plan-martian-science-collaboration-in-orbit/

Hmm, I didn't realize MAVEN doesn't have a methane sensor.
I wonder what the opportunities are for collaboration between the 2 missions?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/03/2013 03:54 PM
Hmm, I didn't realize MAVEN doesn't have a methane sensor.
I wonder what the opportunities are for collaboration between the 2 missions?

Aside from maybe studying relatively fast, dynamic phenomenon like dust-storms, and wind systems - targeted observation which makes use of the fact that there's going to be another set of eyes looking at the same place - I don't think much. The orbits are way different. Isn't MAVEN's apoapsis inside the Mars Orbiter's periapsis? That said, mass-spec observations at different altitudes at same, or shortly spaced time-periods may, again, offer the possibility of observing the evolution of some phenomenon.

But if they're indeed able to find an area where they can collaborate - then why should it be limited only to MAVEN? Imaging can supplement MRO, Mars Express and MODY too. Maybe even the rovers.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/03/2013 05:59 PM
Yeah, too bad the PSLV doesn't have the oomph to get an orbiter to a more standard orbit around Mars. Would there be any possibility of trying an aerobraking maneuver to achieve this? Mars' atmosphere does extend to an exceptionally high altitude, so maybe such a move could be attempted once the main mission objectives have been fulfilled.

Hopefully this time the probe should have a fuller mission life, after learning lessons from Chandrayaan-1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py5Nn1Sr_CA
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/03/2013 06:48 PM
Nov 02, 2013

•All the pre-countdown activities have been completed satisfactorily and the 56 and half hr countdown of Mission will commence tomorrow at 06:08 hrs (IST).

•Pre-count down activities of Mission commenced at 08:45 hrs.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/03/2013 06:49 PM
Nov 03, 2013


•Propellant filling of PS4 stage and RCT completed.


•Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen (MON) filling of PS4 completed at 17:00 hrs (IST).


•Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen (MON) filling of PS4 under progress.


•Mono Methyl Hydrazine (MMH) filling of Reaction Control Thrusters (RCT) completed.


•Mono Methyl Hydrazine (MMH) filling completed.


•Propellant filling operations of Fourth Stage (PS4) are in progress.


•The 56 hr 30 min countdown of Mission commenced at 06:08 hrs (IST).
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/03/2013 09:39 PM
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/366871/mars-probe-study-comet-two.html

Quote
“The Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) will fly by the comet C/2013A1 when the probe is near the Mars orbit. The comet contains good amount of methane, which we hope to observe using our methane sensor,” M Annadurai, programme director of Indian Space Research Organisation’s (Isro) Mars mission, told Deccan Herald.

So I guess the comet might allow some kind of calibration test for the methane sensor? But if the comet hits the Martian atmosphere, won't that then contaminate or skew any readings that are taken of the planet? On the other hand, I've read that methane breaks down fairly quickly in the Martian atmosphere due to radiation, so maybe the effects of the comet won't last too long.

Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: Eric Hedman on 11/03/2013 09:41 PM
Washington Post article on mission:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/india-launches-mars-mission-as-international-space-race-grows-more-competitive/2013/11/03/34f4b796-44b9-11e3-95a9-3f15b5618ba8_story.html?tid=hpModule_949fa2be-8691-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z14 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/india-launches-mars-mission-as-international-space-race-grows-more-competitive/2013/11/03/34f4b796-44b9-11e3-95a9-3f15b5618ba8_story.html?tid=hpModule_949fa2be-8691-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z14)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/04/2013 04:15 AM
From the ISRO web page it seems that the liftoff time has slightly moved to 09:08 UTC.  :)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0906UTC)
Post by: beancounter on 11/04/2013 06:46 AM
Best wishes to ISRO for their Mars Mission.  :)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/04/2013 08:22 AM
Live broadcast will start Tuesday at 0830UTC on http://webcast.gov.in/live
(Another url to try is http://216.185.104.74/isro)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/04/2013 08:36 AM
Trajectories and Monitoring stations
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/04/2013 08:37 AM
Weather forecast from Kalpana
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/04/2013 09:08 AM
Nov 04, 2013

•Mandatory Checks and Preparations for Propellant filling operations of Second Stage (PS2) are in progress.
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/04/2013 10:54 AM
In the latter half, some description of the information readouts displayed on the large overhead screens in the control centre:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOYsleDERZk
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/04/2013 01:13 PM
Question: How is the 4th stabilized during the long coast period?

spin stabilized
or
RCS stabilized ?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/04/2013 01:52 PM
TTC ships recent positions via AIS

SCI Nalanda: 2013-11-03 2208UTC at 20.26937S 156.5747W Speed: 7.2kn Course: 91°
SCI Yamuna: 2013-11-04 0357UTC at 19.49518S 134.1281W Speed: 9.9kn Course: 89°
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/04/2013 02:00 PM
Question: How is the 4th stabilized during the long coast period?

spin stabilized
or
RCS stabilized ?

RCS
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/04/2013 02:28 PM
A better view of the predefined drop zones up to 2nd stage debris
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/04/2013 02:46 PM
UPDATE
PS-2 stage tanking commenced. (Mobile service tower's been retracted to 50m)

I'll rest a lot easier ~10 hours (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30160.msg1086245#msg1086245) after they complete tanking the second stage.. but that won't be for a while now.


TTC ships recent positions via AIS
SCI Nalanda: 2013-11-03 2208UTC at 20.26937S 156.5747W Speed: 7.2kn Course: 91°
SCI Yamuna: 2013-11-04 0357UTC at 19.49518S 134.1281W Speed: 9.9kn Course: 89°
Anyone know the weather forecast for their destination sites, for launch time tomorrow? Or willing to exercise Google-fu to get the relevant pictures from some Pacific maritime satellite?


And regarding science
Isn't MAVEN's apoapsis inside the Mars Orbiter's periapsis?
1. No (http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/MAVENFactSheet_Final20130610.pdf). So there's probably more room for collaborative sensing than I thought at first.


2. GOCE coming down, after an awesome mission, is also prompting me to ask: are all orbits equally sensitive to anisotropy in gravitational potential? Could the uncompensated "tugs" - due to Martian mascons - be more pronounced in an orbit with a large eccentricity, than a circular orbit? That'd lead to an observed spacecraft position, that is different from the expected spacecraft position - since the latter would, presumably, propagate the trajectory using an idealised version of a Martian sphere. If the DSN is sensitive enough to measure this difference, could you work backwards and derive the Martian analog of this (http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/GOCE/Earth_s_gravity_revealed_in_unprecedented_detail)?


Or is the computation involved too nightmarish - even for dynamicists?


3. Anything more than a tenuous coma encounter of C/2013 A1, might potentially be problematic. No Whipple shield. Anyone know what MMOD protection the orbiter has? Impact probability is pretty low right now. Anyway, who detected methane on the said comet? The Curiosity finding also mentions the lifetime of Methane on Mars - and it far exceeds the expected lifetime of the Orbiter. So there's no waiting out cometary 'contamination'. But then, comets have always been the putative delivery boys for compounds that enable life. So, the contamination would be exciting too.


PS - I found the lemon-and-seven-chillies "defacement" (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1114521#msg1114521) equivalent for the mission, in the brochure. (...the last Pie chart)
Also, Does anyone know how they're defining reliability in order to get a numerical value?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/04/2013 03:23 PM
Emily Lakdawalla's answers to FAQs about the Mission: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/10311230-india-prepares-to-take-flight-faq.html (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/10311230-india-prepares-to-take-flight-faq.html)


She links to this (http://www.iafastro.net/iac/archive/browse/IAC-10/A3/1/7879/) abstract, while illustrating the challenges of aero-braking.


<Wild speculation>
Does anyone know the deployment mechanism of the high-gain antenna and the solar panels? I'm thinking about it, since Wiedehopf's comment on the blogpost raises the issue of design symmetry to enable aero-braking; arguing that this orbiter isn't symmetric. But if they were able to fold the antenna for braking periods, and open it back out, it might be possible. I'm pretty sure they can't retract it once deployed, but thought I'd ask. In any case, with enough prop, an asymmetric design shouldn't be a showstopper?
</Wild speculation>
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/04/2013 03:46 PM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed/technology/nasa-team-sends-conventional-good-luck-peanuts-and-card-to-isro-scientists-/article1-1146303.aspx

(http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/2013/11/40c6e8ac-ba0b-4913-8026-1fa4f7dc194aMediumRes.JPG)

Apparently, NASA's lucky peanuts have been received:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed/science/ahead-of-mars-mission-temple-run-goes-hand-in-hand-with-rocket-science/article1-1147077.aspx

Quote
But beyond this, do superstitions and other beliefs have a hold on the scientists?
 
“Not really,” said Mylswamy Annadurai, the project director of moon missions Chandrayaan 1 and Chandrayaan 2. “I read a page of Bhagawad Gita daily and will do so on Tuesday.”
 
He added, “But yes I have just got a jar of peanuts and a good luck card from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory-Nasa. This is a very nice gesture. I will distribute these peanuts in my office on Tuesday morning.”
 
Scientists at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in National Aeronautics and Space Administration (Nasa) consider circulation of peanuts auspicious.

But I'll keep my fingers crossed just for extra good measure  ;)
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/04/2013 04:34 PM
Question: How is the 4th stabilized during the long coast period?

spin stabilized
or
RCS stabilized ?

RCS
Thanks! antriksh
Will the 4th stage be carrying more RCS propellant this time around? Also any modification to the propellant tanks(capacity augumentation) ?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/04/2013 05:56 PM
Does anyone know the deployment mechanism of the high-gain antenna and the solar panels?

I'm not sure about solar panel and antenna deployment; may be they are deployed via servo actuators?

Quote
I'm thinking about it, since Wiedehopf's comment on the blogpost raises the issue of design symmetry to enable aero-braking; arguing that this orbiter isn't symmetric. But if they were able to fold the antenna for braking periods, and open it back out, it might be possible. I'm pretty sure they can't retract it once deployed, but thought I'd ask. In any case, with enough prop, an asymmetric design shouldn't be a showstopper?

ISRO's "India's Maiden Odyssey to Mars" video (www.isro.org/video-mars.aspx, at 8:30, 10:00 and 10:55) states that the Liquid Apogee Motor (LAM) will be fired when spacecraft enters Martian sphere of influence, in order to slowdown spacecraft and place it in orbit.

Also, MOM brochure pages 3 and 8 (www.isro.org/pslv-c25/pdf/pslv-c25-brochure.pdf) give some info about Martian orbit insertion. Quoting them here:
"At the time the spacecraft reaches the closest approach to Mars (Periapsis), it is captured into planned orbit around Mars by imparting delta-v retro which is called the Martian Orbit Insertion (MOI) manoeuvre"

"Liquid Engine to be restarted after 10 months for Martian Orbit Insertion (MOI) manoeuvre"

"Additional pyros provided for MOI manoeuvres"


Does it mean that MOM doesn't use aero-braking for settling into orbit? It's relying on LAM/retro motors?
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/04/2013 06:12 PM
It's not going to use aero-braking to get into its planned orbit - they would have had to design the spacecraft specifically to allow that, which they haven't.

However, Emily speculated about how aero-braking would be a nice bonus to try out afterwards, once the mission's main objectives have all been achieved. I dunno how you can improvisationally attempt something like that - just do a brief retro-burn and retract the antenna and arrays at the last minute, maybe? Heh, it'd be a hoot if it works.  :D
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/04/2013 06:55 PM
Here's something I didn't notice before:

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/meaningful-scientific-experiments-to-be-conducted-on-the-red-planet/article5314754.ece

Quote
The Indian orbiter would have a useful life of at least six months around Mars, according to the ISRO Chairman. Once its mission was complete, the spacecraft would not be allowed to crash on the planet. There would be enough propellant to take the probe away from the Martian environment, he said.

Well, if that's nominally the case, then wouldn't there be enough propellant left to attempt aero-braking?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/04/2013 07:03 PM
Moved for live coverage.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Prober on 11/04/2013 07:58 PM
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/isro-gearing-up-for-mars-mission-on-november-5/article5298154.ece?ref=relatedNews

found this thread.....looking for a link for live feed?

Wishing India good luck on the mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/04/2013 08:32 PM
looking for a link for live feed?

Live broadcast will start Tuesday at 0830UTC on http://webcast.gov.in/live (http://webcast.gov.in/live)
(Another url to try is http://216.185.104.74/isro (http://216.185.104.74/isro))

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 11/04/2013 09:18 PM
I dunno how you can improvisationally attempt something like that - just do a brief retro-burn and retract the antenna and arrays at the last minute, maybe? Heh, it'd be a hoot if it works.  :D
No need to retract the array, your heating/attitude/structural limits just limit how deep you can go in a pass. Tricky, but not impossible for a spacecraft that wasn't designed specifically for aerobraking. IIRC Venus express has done some aerobraking experiments.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/04/2013 09:46 PM
Wishing everyone at ISRO all the best on this mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Jeff Lerner on 11/04/2013 09:50 PM
Good luck ISRO...here's hoping the Great Martian Ghoul takes this mission off....😃
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/04/2013 09:53 PM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/04/2013 09:54 PM
BBC article. Fair bit of justifying of the mission & its cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24729073
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/04/2013 09:56 PM

Standing on the shoulders of giants...
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/300day-mars-odyssey-begins-today/article5314752.ece (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/300day-mars-odyssey-begins-today/article5314752.ece)

Quote
S. Arunan, Project Director, ISRO’s Mars orbiter, said charging of the lithium-ion batteries on board the Mars spacecraft was under way on Monday afternoon. Mr. Arunan explained that the lithium-ion batteries were needed as a stand-by on board the spacecraft till the orbiter’s solar panels were deployed.
“In case the demand for power goes beyond the solar panels’ capacity, say during the eclipse conditions, the batteries will come to our rescue. These batteries will then be made operational. They are like the UPS [uninterrupted power supply],” he added.

Quote
ISRO’s Mars orbiter builders studied the successes and failures of the American, the Russian and the European Space Agency’s (ESA) missions to Mars before they built the spacecraft and the mission profile it should follow.
Mr. Arunan said: “We compiled the data of the failed scenarios of all the erstwhile launches of the U.S. Russia and the ESA. These failures have been reported well by their Failure Analysis Committees (FAC). We went through these FAC reports so that we do not make the same mistakes in our mission.”


So now that they've benefited directly from shared information, I'd love if it if they intensified the sharing of all their information too. ALL information... pertaining to successful and unsuccessful missions.


That said, go Mangalyaan!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/04/2013 10:01 PM
Tracking MOM

 The ignition of the fourth stage of PSLV-C25 and the separation of MoM from the rocket are planned to be monitored through two Ship Borne Terminals onboard SCI Nalanda and SCI Yamuna.

 Just few hours back both the ships reached their final positions as shown in the picture. Netizens may please note for about ten minutes between the separation of third stage of PSLV and ignition of fourth stage the vehicle will not be visible from any ground stations as will be evident in the Live telecast ...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/04/2013 10:02 PM
It’s T-11 hrs and counting, propellant fillings on the liquid second stage (PS2) of PSLV has just completed. The vehicle is now fuelled to its capacity. We present you the shot of PSLV at this point exactly at the first launch pad…
Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, November 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 01:46 AM
Question: How is the 4th stabilized during the long coast period?

spin stabilized
or
RCS stabilized ?

RCS
Thanks! antriksh
Will the 4th stage be carrying more RCS propellant this time around? Also any modification to the propellant tanks(capacity augumentation) ?

Main modifications as per PSLV C25 brochure:
The long coasting necessitated specific modification and validation of the coast phase guidance algorithm, on-board battery capacity augmentation, assessment on the performance of inertial systems for extended
Right duration and deployment of two Ship-borne Terminals to capture the critical telemetry data during Right in the non-visibility zone.
Additional provisions are made for the thermal management of Vehicle Equipment Bay, PS4 stage and also the Spacecraft elements considering the longer exposure to extreme cold space.

Pulsed RCS thrusters  and the main engines don't require any propellant augmentation.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 01:54 AM
William Graham's extensive preview article:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/india-mars-debut-pslv-mom/

----since retweeted by the Canadian Space Agency!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/05/2013 03:22 AM
It's not going to use aero-braking to get into its planned orbit - they would have had to design the spacecraft specifically to allow that, which they haven't.

However, Emily speculated about how aero-braking would be a nice bonus to try out afterwards, once the mission's main objectives have all been achieved. I dunno how you can improvisationally attempt something like that - just do a brief retro-burn and retract the antenna and arrays at the last minute, maybe? Heh, it'd be a hoot if it works.  :D
Using aerobraking on a vehicle not designed for it has been done before, with Magellan at Venus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magellan_(spacecraft)

You just need to go carefully and slowly, so you don't overheat anything important, or exceed RCS torques.

However, with such a large apogee, and only small drag allowed, it could take a *long* time to aerobrake.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 03:31 AM
Once the mission is complete in Mars orbit after six months, better option would be to orbit one of the moon, provided sufficient propellants or perhaps send it further ahead towards outer solar system and test communication etc.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/05/2013 05:27 AM
Any chance of crash landing or even (sort of) soft landing on one of the moons @ eom?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 06:19 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 06:28 AM
Both TTC ships seem to have reached their operational positions last night (UTC)
(data via AIS)

SCI Nalanda: 2013-11-04 2138UTC at 20.30019S 154.4998W Speed: 0.3kn Course: 324°
SCI Yamuna: 2013-11-04 2015UTC at 19.50101S 132.0015W Speed: 0.8kn Course: 268°
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 06:33 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 06:41 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 06:43 AM
So far, it seems that at least 3 channels will have live broadcast of the launch:
http://webcast.gov.in/live/
http://www.ndtv.com/video/live/channel/ndtv24x7
http://ibnlive.in.com/livetv/
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 06:59 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:11 AM
T-60 mins
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 07:32 AM
http://216.185.104.74/isro is on
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Apollo-phill on 11/05/2013 07:32 AM
I wish India all success with this mission and look owards a succsfl liftoff in just under the hour


Apollo-phill
UK
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:34 AM
Webcast has started!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 07:35 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 07:39 AM
server too busy  :'(
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Riley1066 on 11/05/2013 07:42 AM
I love the Tabla and Sitar ...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 07:42 AM
Watch live on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 07:43 AM
NDTV seems stable-ish.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 07:45 AM
Weather is green. Lots of caveats about how Mars missions have a high failure rate.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:46 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 07:46 AM
Although it seems very windy....
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:47 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 07:47 AM
T-25 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 07:48 AM
"It takes nine months for a baby to be born" - heh.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 07:49 AM
On the launch pad
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 07:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcSDOkDvyQ
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 07:54 AM
NDTV coverage is pretty good. Knowledgeable anchor and reporter.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:55 AM
T-16 mins
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:55 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 07:55 AM
..........
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 07:56 AM
Just went all green on the Mission Director's console. Launch authorised.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 07:56 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 07:57 AM
.......
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 07:57 AM
......
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 07:59 AM
http://216.185.104.74/isro has the least delay
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/05/2013 07:59 AM
NDTV coverage is pretty good. Knowledgeable anchor and reporter.

I really like reports from Mr. Pallav Bagla (https://twitter.com/pallavabagla ); his sci-tech coverage is usually good and fun to watch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:00 AM
T-10 mins!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:02 AM
Chris, is there a thread here someplace where members vent their frustration at talkative PAOs? :P
I can listen to integration/testing commentary later! Give me LAUNCH updates, at T-9 min!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:03 AM
T-8
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:04 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:05 AM
VIPs all seated.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:05 AM
Coming up to T-5 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:06 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:06 AM
Usual ISRO Bing Bongs on the count.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:06 AM
T-5 mins
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:06 AM
T-5
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:07 AM
First launch of vehicle in November!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:07 AM
Four mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:08 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:08 AM
T-3 m
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:08 AM
T-3 mins
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:09 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:09 AM
....
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:10 AM
T-60 seconds. God speed PSLV/MOM.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:11 AM
LAUNCH!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:11 AM
Ignition! And LAUNCH  8)!!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:12 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:12 AM
Air lit strap-ons ignited.


Ground lit strap-ons jettisoned.
1.2 km/sec


Air-lit strap-ons now separated.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:12 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:12 AM
T+60 seconds. Good first stage.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/05/2013 08:13 AM
Ground lit strap-ons separated.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Borklund on 11/05/2013 08:13 AM
GO GO GO!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:13 AM
Boosters sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:13 AM
Good second stage performance.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:13 AM
 :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:13 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:14 AM
PS-1 sep. PS-2 lit, now in closed loop guidance (apparently PS-1 wasn't?!)
At 82 km
v = 2.3 km/sec
~T+150s
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:14 AM
Boss keeping calm.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:15 AM
Fairing jettison.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:15 AM
PLF sep.
T+201s
2nd stage nominal
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:15 AM
heat shield seperatedm second stage performanc enormal
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:15 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/05/2013 08:15 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:16 AM
Staging!

2-3 sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:16 AM
PS-2 sep, PS-3 ignited
T+264s
130 km altitude
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:16 AM
Third stage ignited
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:16 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:16 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:17 AM
LOS SHAR-1
T+369s
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:17 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:18 AM
Third stage burnout.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/05/2013 08:18 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:18 AM
....
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:19 AM
Into the coast.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:19 AM
Entered long coasting phase of 28 minutes prior to 4th stage ignition
Port Blair, Brunei giving data for the next 17 min
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 08:19 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:20 AM
S/C transmitter 2, channel 23 on.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:20 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:21 AM
3rd stage separated.
T+587s


Port Blair LOS
@T+649s
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:21 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:22 AM
3,000 kms downrange. 203 km altitude. Close to orbital velocity for LEO.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:22 AM
Into promo videos during the coast.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:22 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:26 AM
Coasting normal
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:28 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:30 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlZ5shuUGq8
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:32 AM
Some over-performance on one of the plots. But they still said nominal.
Ground station LOS .
Waiting for AOS from SCI-Nalanda.
<Biting nails>
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:32 AM
...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/05/2013 08:33 AM
Some over-performance on one of the plots. But they still said nominal.
Ground station LOS .
Waiting for AOS from SCI-Nalanda.
<Biting nails>

Yes, even I was checking those graphs. Is that fine?? I am really tense here!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:34 AM
No direct telemetry due to tracking assets. However, there's clearly some lofting via over performance.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:34 AM
They say its normal
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 08:36 AM
also live on
http://www.24framesdigital.com/isro/webcast/051113/
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 08:42 AM
The higher altitude indicates that the insertion velocity is a little higher than expected. This means the next PS4 insertion burn will need a little less delta-V.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:42 AM
Coming to the end of the coast.....five mins to go.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:42 AM
Wow, that is some over-performance. Not to worry thogh. This can always be compensated by burning the next stage for a shorter time. It's under-performance (beyond correction margin of next stage) that's a problem.


SCI-Nalanda AOS! :D <Phew> EDIT: this happened at the time of edit, and not post. Mea culpa.
PS-4 ignition at T+2099.4s
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:43 AM
Can't help recalling the call via STS-1's launch! :) "You're lofting a little bit..."
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:45 AM
real time data
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 08:46 AM
PS4 Ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:46 AM
Both ships getting data.


PS-4 ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 08:46 AM
PS4 ignition has started
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:47 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 08:47 AM
PS4 performance nominal.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:48 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:48 AM
Performance nominal is the call.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:49 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 08:49 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:49 AM
Final leg to S/C Sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:52 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: isro-watch on 11/05/2013 08:52 AM
Per the graphs, the anomaly in altitude seems to be corrected a bit !
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:53 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 08:53 AM
Current apogee 10,000 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:53 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:53 AM
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 08:55 AM
PS4 end of burn. Apogee 23,492 km.

S/C separation.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:55 AM
PS-4 cutoff
Injection conditions achieved.


And...
S/C Sep! :D
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 08:55 AM
S/C sep OK!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 08:56 AM
..
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:56 AM
There we go! S/C Sep!

Congrats to all concerned!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 08:56 AM
And we have S/C Separation!!!

My congratulations!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 08:57 AM
Congratulations to ISRO and India for the successful orbit insertion of MOM! Best of luck for trans Mars insertion and Mars orbit insertion.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 08:58 AM
Caught this in the background of the Chairman speaking: Primary deployment over... (Arrays and/or Antennae?)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:58 AM
Very precise parameters.
Title: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/05/2013 08:58 AM
Congratulations to all at ISRO on the successful completion of the first stage of this mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 08:58 AM
William Graham's article - updated post launch:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/india-mars-debut-pslv-mom/

Thanks to all for the coverage on this live thread.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: SimonFD on 11/05/2013 08:58 AM
Fantastic effort! Well done to all involved  8)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 08:59 AM
Apparently the S/C initial orbit is very close to the wanted one:
observed: 246.9 x 23566.69 km x 19.2°
wanted: 250 x 23500 km x 19.2°

edit: refined values from TTC ship data
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/05/2013 08:59 AM
whew!! that was some 40 minutes!
congrats! isro
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Silmfeanor on 11/05/2013 09:00 AM
Congratulations to everyone involved and to all of India!
Now for the Journey to mars!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/05/2013 09:02 AM
Congratulations to ISRO  :D
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/05/2013 09:04 AM
Crucial parameter: Argument of perigee :
achieved: 282.785°
Wanted: 282.55°
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/05/2013 09:05 AM
Confirmation of deployment of solar arrays and antenna.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 09:05 AM
solar panels deployed!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 09:06 AM
Yeah.. Dr. S K Shivakumar (Director, ISRO Satellite centre) confirms both primary and secondary deployment (i.e. deployment to final configuration) of solar panels.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: rickl on 11/05/2013 09:06 AM
Congratulations, ISRO!


It was exciting to follow the mission here and on the various video feeds.  Good coverage.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/05/2013 09:11 AM
Congrats to ISRO! Hoping for a successful Mars orbital insertion!

Waiting for MAVEN to join it over there!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/05/2013 09:12 AM
Superb speech by Prof. UR Rao.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 09:13 AM
Haha..
Prof. U R Rao capturing the tense moments prior to AOS by the first ship.


LMAO. EPIC.
"Indians have no problem spending 5000 crores on Diwali crackers that don't go up 10 feet, but they're shouting about 450 crores to the Mars mission!"


(Btw, did anyone catch the peanut distribution? Did it happen? Maybe before coverage picked up)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/05/2013 09:13 AM
The Journey has started, hoping for the best!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/05/2013 09:16 AM
Heard the NDTV anchor (Vishnu Som) state that solar panel deployment confirmed
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 09:23 AM
Processing Highlights of India's First Mission to Mars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wWd6ZzdsAY

Mars Orbiter Processing Highlights of India's First Mars Mission

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCUrSBYsFhI

Launch of India's First Mission to Mars on PSLV Rocket

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM0k1dTDqpg
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 09:36 AM
That was cool. Still, we've a long way to go. ISRO chairman promises daily updates (watch the Facebook page, and their website), and says they expect to convene again for the GSLV launch before the year's out.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: MATTBLAK on 11/05/2013 09:40 AM
Good for them!! I hope it all goes really well.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: belegor on 11/05/2013 09:53 AM
Congratulations to ISRO and all involved in the mission!

Question for the more versed in mission design / orbital mechanics:
A Swiss newspaper wrote:
"After the launch, [in order to travel to Mars] it will first orbit Earth in an elliptical orbit, in order to gather speed with the help of the magnetic field."

Can someone explain, what is meant here (I've never heard of that before)? Or is it a mistake by the journalist?
If it is, what's the purpose of those successively higher elliptical orbits, as opposed to direct TMI?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/05/2013 10:04 AM
Well, I've repeatedly read on the net that ISRO's Mars orbiter will be sent to Mars via a slingshot maneuver - I presume this refers to a gravitational slingshot, since that's the only kind of slingshot I know of. So I assume the news source you referenced simply misspoke, and they really meant to say "help of the Earth's gravitational field".
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: belegor on 11/05/2013 10:10 AM
Thanks. That raises the question though, how do gravity assist manoeuvers work if you're staying in Earth's reference frame? I always thought of gravity assists as changes in speed in the heliocentric frame... But my understanding of orbital mechanics is very limited, so I'm happy to learn  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/05/2013 10:15 AM
No gravitational sling shot effect either.
The LAM will be fired repeatedly, increasing the velocity and hence raising the orbit incrementally.
Eventually the craft will attain escape velocity and break free from earth orbit.
The advantage of this incremental method is possibility of fine tuning orbit, while correcting for any errors.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/05/2013 10:18 AM
We have orbit parameters from NORAD...

2013-060A/39370 (MOM spacecraft) - 261 x 23927 km x 19.42°
2013-060B/39371 (PSLV 4th stage) - 265 x 23518 km x 19.16°
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/05/2013 10:22 AM
No gravitational sling shot effect either.
The LAM will be fired repeatedly, increasing the velocity and hence raising the orbit incrementally.
Eventually the craft will attain escape velocity and break free from earth orbit.
The advantage of this incremental method is possibility of fine tuning orbit, while correcting for any errors.

Thanks for that - sorry, my bad.  :-[

But so did the rocket overperformance help anything in this regard? Will it provide any extra mission performance, or will it simply not detract from nominal mission performance?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Silmfeanor on 11/05/2013 10:23 AM
No gravitational sling shot effect either.
The LAM will be fired repeatedly, increasing the velocity and hence raising the orbit incrementally.
Eventually the craft will attain escape velocity and break free from earth orbit.
The advantage of this incremental method is possibility of fine tuning orbit, while correcting for any errors.

I think the Oberth Effect works, though? You could characterise that as gravitational help. Still a stretch, however, so I guess it is just wrong in the articles.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: guckyfan on 11/05/2013 10:27 AM
But so did the rocket overperformance help anything in this regard? Will it provide any extra mission performance, or will it simply not detract from nominal mission performance?

They timed the 4th stage burn so they exactly hit the target orbit. If there was any spare capacity due to overperformance of the 3rd stage they did not use it. For whatever reason.

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Liss on 11/05/2013 10:35 AM
Congratulations to ISRO with a perfect launch!
Hope Mars departure burns will be perfect as well!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: robertross on 11/05/2013 11:13 AM
Congrats to the teams in India on a successful launch. I hope the craft does equally as well.

Thanks for the superb coverage guys!
Title: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/05/2013 11:47 AM
There is already over a 1000 comments on the BBC article on this mission, unfortunately it has partly degenerated into that old debate of why are they being sent aid when they are launching craft to Mars.:( The sheer level ignorance of some postings about this project is pretty depressing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/05/2013 12:36 PM
But so did the rocket overperformance help anything in this regard? Will it provide any extra mission performance, or will it simply not detract from nominal mission performance?

They timed the 4th stage burn so they exactly hit the target orbit. If there was any spare capacity due to overperformance of the 3rd stage they did not use it. For whatever reason.


There is a carefully planned and quite complex series of (6?) orbit raising maneuvers, ending with the spacecraft at a very specific location relative to Earth in  a few weeks, for the final trans-Mars insertion.  If they use any left-over performance here, the initial orbit will be longer, and all subsequent events will be thrown off.  (If there was enough over-performance, in theory they could switch to an entirely different sequence with one less phasing orbit.  But that much over-performance is unlikely, and the flight software surely could not make that switch anyway, no matter how much margin it thought it had...)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/05/2013 03:16 PM
Best photos I've ever seen of a PSLV (or even any Indian) launch! I nearly thought that's a Cape Canaveral Delta II launch at first glance!  8)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: ugordan on 11/05/2013 03:19 PM
Any higher resolution versions available?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: baldusi on 11/05/2013 03:48 PM
Those ARE amazing pictures. Perfect exposure and framing. Somebody there has finally put a pro at doing this things. Yet, ULA is still my second favorite at rocket pictures (the first is the guy who pictured Shuttle launches with a big format view camera).
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Elvis in Space on 11/05/2013 03:49 PM
There is already over a 1000 comments on the BBC article on this mission, unfortunately it has partly degenerated into that old debate of why are they being sent aid when they are launching craft to Mars.:( The sheer level ignorance of some postings about this project is pretty depressing.

Whenever I start reading message board/YouTube/Facebook comments I try to console myself that surely most of this represents one of the bottom layers of humanity. At the other end of the spectrum we have just witnessed one of the largest segments of Earth's population reach across space to another planet. It represents a wonderful achievement for India and the rest of us. Somehow I expect the mission to perform as well as the launching. A year from now I hope a billion people with a long history share the pride of knowing this was done with their own efforts. That should inspire them to even greater things.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/05/2013 03:50 PM
The launch as seen from some distance away:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUtX_7ekE9U

The same user has taken pretty good videos of quite a few launches out of Sriharikota before.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Artyom. on 11/05/2013 03:54 PM
Best photos I've ever seen of a PSLV (or even any Indian) launch! I nearly thought that's a Cape Canaveral Delta II launch at first glance!  8)
I totally agree! Wonderful photo 8)!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/05/2013 04:07 PM
There is a carefully planned and quite complex series of (6?) orbit raising maneuvers, ending with the spacecraft at a very specific location relative to Earth in  a few weeks, for the final trans-Mars insertion.  If they use any left-over performance here, the initial orbit will be longer, and all subsequent events will be thrown off.  (If there was enough over-performance, in theory they could switch to an entirely different sequence with one less phasing orbit.  But that much over-performance is unlikely, and the flight software surely could not make that switch anyway, no matter how much margin it thought it had...)

6 burns yeah.

I'm still not convinced about the flight-software being the show-stopper to over-performance exploitation. If the fourth stage was able to autonomously calculate a new burn time (and perhaps a new attitude of a primary thrust vector for its engine) - why can't the S/C do the same? In fact, the S/C doesn't even need to do it. All it needs to do is to be able to downlink telemetry, and undergo a GNC software update with new TIGs, and burn times?

I'm going to venture that it's the orbital mechanics that's responsible. i.e. if they didn't compensate for over-performance, the S/C would have to burn MORE propellant to get onto an appropriate Mars-transfer tranjectory.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 04:40 PM
Best photos I've ever seen of a PSLV (or even any Indian) launch! I nearly thought that's a Cape Canaveral Delta II launch at first glance!  8)

Thanks! That allows me to put the article top (previous lead photos were too low in resolution).

As far as the big global reaction being a negative one, a lot of it seems very uninformed. Certainly not seeing many British - the BBC site is a global site - go after that angle, not least due to our strong historical link with India, who are classed as friends.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: elakdawalla on 11/05/2013 04:54 PM
Any higher resolution versions available?
There are higher resolution versions on the Mars Orbiter Mission Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058) (and, via that, on my blog post (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11050201-picture-perfect-launch-for-mars-orbiter-mission.html) :) )
Title: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/05/2013 04:54 PM
There is already over a 1000 comments on the BBC article on this mission, unfortunately it has partly degenerated into that old debate of why are they being sent aid when they are launching craft to Mars.:( The sheer level ignorance of some postings about this project is pretty depressing.

Whenever I start reading message board/YouTube/Facebook comments I try to console myself that surely most of this represents one of the bottom layers of humanity. At the other end of the spectrum we have just witnessed one of the largest segments of Earth's population reach across space to another planet. It represents a wonderful achievement for India and the rest of us. Somehow I expect the mission to perform as well as the launching. A year from now I hope a billion people with a long history share the pride of knowing this was done with their own efforts. That should inspire them to even greater things.

I like your thinking on this issue.:)

OT those are possibly the best photos I have seen of a PSLV launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: ugordan on 11/05/2013 05:04 PM
There are higher resolution versions on the Mars Orbiter Mission Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058) (and, via that, on my blog post (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11050201-picture-perfect-launch-for-mars-orbiter-mission.html) :) )

Thanks, Emily!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: akula2 on 11/05/2013 05:14 PM
Very unlikely that this will launch in 2013. I'm going to say 2016 at the earliest.

There is already over a 1000 comments on the BBC article on this mission, unfortunately it has partly degenerated into that old debate of why are they being sent aid when they are launching craft to Mars. :( The sheer level ignorance of some postings about this project is pretty depressing.
Not only you, but many under-estimate Indians. This is mostly due to colonial arrogance and/or racist overtones.

Inturn, people like me who setup hi-end/tech companies around the world have a good laugh at them!  ;D

This is only baby steps, a long way to go for Indian Space story.

Thanks to all for updating this thread, very much appreciated.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/05/2013 06:02 PM

There are higher resolution versions on the Mars Orbiter Mission Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058) (and, via that, on my blog post (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11050201-picture-perfect-launch-for-mars-orbiter-mission.html) :) )


And thanks to you for tweeting out both the news article and the thread! It really is appreciated! :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: mdo on 11/05/2013 06:47 PM
Quote from: elakdawalla

Ah, another one of my favourite science writers joined the forum. Brilliant!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Jeff Lerner on 11/05/2013 07:20 PM
Any higher resolution versions available?
There are higher resolution versions on the Mars Orbiter Mission Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058) (and, via that, on my blog post (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11050201-picture-perfect-launch-for-mars-orbiter-mission.html) :) )

Good to see you on NSF Emily...been following you on The Planetary Society site and UMSF for awhile....welcome !!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Adonis1 on 11/05/2013 07:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOSwpQjtgl8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: elakdawalla on 11/05/2013 07:58 PM
Thanks for the welcome, folks. I lurk here a lot; it's the best place to find info on missions from agencies other than NASA and ESA.

Via Pradeep Mohandas on Twitter here is a link to a new standalone ISRO website for the Mars Orbiter Mission (http://isro.org/mars/home.aspx), but at the moment there is no new information there and most links take you back to isro.org. Worth watching for news.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Rocket Science on 11/05/2013 09:07 PM
Congratulations on your first journey to Mars!  May the voyage be smooth problem free ...
Thanks for the excellent coverage NSF! :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Danderman on 11/05/2013 09:17 PM
I was wrong, I didn't think they would make the launch window this time around.

I guess the lesson is that PSLV based projects seem to materialize and fly on time, whereas GSLV based projects, not so much.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 12:15 AM
Waiting eagerly for colored pics of mother Earth taken by MOM!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/06/2013 12:38 AM
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/mars-baton-shifts-to-istrac/article5318336.ece

Quote
First signals from the spacecraft showed it to be in good health, M.Annadurai, Programme Director of the Mars Orbiter Mission, told The Hindu in Bangalore.

“We started getting spacecraft telemetry from T+500 (T meaning the launch event) and took over after the satellite was separated” from the rocket, he said.

The satellite was going round Earth once in 6 hours 50 minutes in an elliptical orbit of 247 km x 23,564 km.

Between November 7 and December 1, ISTRAC would progressively stretch one end of the ellipse (at the apogee or farthest point from Earth) in six moves, called orbit raising manoeuvres.

Quote
Mr. Annadurai said scientists on the tracking mission were bracing themselves for the first and crucial post-launch manoeuvre at 1:15 a.m. on November 7. Prior to that, they had a rehearsal of the manoeuvre between midnight and 5 a.m. on Wednesday.

By December 1, the spacecraft must be put on the path to Mars.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:48 AM
For those who want to understand the MOM's Hohmann Transfer Orbits

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf4-1.php
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:55 AM
ISRO Chair interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bY-eZVFh2cE
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 03:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S8mcv3TDIIo
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/06/2013 04:54 AM
The reason why MOM has to do so many orbit raising manoeuvres is due to the low thrust of the main engine, only 440 Newtons for a spacecraft that is initially 1350 kg. That means initial acceleration is only 0.326 m/s². For a change of delta-V of say 1000 m/s, that would take about 3000 s or 50 minutes. The most efficient way to raise your orbit is to do them at perigee. If you burn too long, you won't be at perigee any longer and you'll be wasting propellant. So, you break up the burn into several segments, so your burns are as close to perigee as possible. This means several orbit raising manoeuvres that gradually raise apogee, before the final burn that puts you on a hyperbolic trajectory that leaves Earth on your way to Mars.

By the way, there are no slingshots or magnetic fields involved in this. To perform a slingshot requires three bodies, one of them being the spacecraft. Examples of the two other bodies are the Earth and the Moon (spacecraft in orbit around Earth slingshots past the Moon) or the Sun and the Earth (spacecraft in orbit around Sun slingshots past the Earth). As MOM is in orbit around Earth and won't be going near the Moon, there can be no slingshot.

The Earth's magnetic field is mostly used to orient certain spacecraft (for example that's what the Hubble Space Telescope does). The field is too weak to provide any useful propulsive force.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/06/2013 05:16 AM
From the ISRO Chair interview, the final trans Mars injection (TMI) burn is scheduled for 1 December.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/06/2013 05:21 AM
Orbit raising manoeuvre dates: November 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 16, and December 1.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mars-mission-Journey-has-only-begun-challenging-phase-is-coming-Isro-says/articleshow/25270007.cms
Quote
What follows in the next 10 days would be six crucial "orbit raising operations," in the wee hours of November 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 16.

And then, at 12.42am on December 1, the orbiter will leave the earth's orbit for a 300-day journey to the red planet.


Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/06/2013 11:53 AM
I have not seen it mentioned elsewhere. from the parameters of the first orbit, the orbital period seems to be close to 6h 50 min
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/06/2013 12:09 PM
MOM NORAD tracking:
http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=39370

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mars-Orbiter-Mission-most-tracked-spacecraft/articleshow/25326491.cms
Quote
It is now at an altitude of 17,376km going at a speed of 1.21km/second at 5.25pm [IST].

"The health of the spacecraft is being monitoring continuously as it is good," a spokesperson of Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) told The Times of India.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/06/2013 01:42 PM
Was it possible now or maybe possible at a future date (when the planets are in the right position ) to have a more energy efficient trajectory, with venus flyby ( gravitational slingshot ).

I remember seeing such a trajectory for a simulated Ares mission on youtube.

Such a trajectory if possible would mean more intrumentation payload , and bonus science @ venus flyby.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ugordan on 11/06/2013 01:44 PM
Such a trajectory if possible would mean more intrumentation payload , and bonus science @ venus flyby.

And probably also bonus thermal problems...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:02 PM
1. Early tomorrow (Thursday) at 1.17 a.m. the on-board motors of Mars Orbiter will be fired for around 200 seconds to raise its orbit by around 4,120 km to 28,785 km

2. around 40 kg of the on-board fuel was expected to be burnt in the first orbit raising activity slated for Thursday.

3. around 360 kg fuel was likely to be expended on the six orbit raising activities.

4. Mars Orbiter’s orbit would be raised on 7,10, 15 and 30 of November.

5. The fuel requirement in the Mars orbit is not much. The Orbiter needs only two kg fuel for six months.

So roughly 400-500 kg propellant will be left with the orbiter after six months of orbit around Mars.


Source: http://www.firstpost.com/india/mars-mission-isro-to-raise-mangalyaan-orbit-to-28485-km-tomorrow-1214513.html?utm_source=hp-footer
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:06 PM
Was it possible now or maybe possible at a future date (when the planets are in the right position ) to have a more energy efficient trajectory, with venus flyby ( gravitational slingshot ).

I remember seeing such a trajectory for a simulated Ares mission on youtube.

Such a trajectory if possible would mean more intrumentation payload , and bonus science @ venus flyby.

Future missions will use more powerful GSLV or LVM3, so perhaps such extreme trajectories may not be required.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/06/2013 02:10 PM
^ not clear if this includes fuel for breaking into mars orbit....
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:13 PM
Update ISRO FB:


ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft has to go several rounds around Earth to gradually increase its velocity to attain the escape velocity with minimum fuel consumption.
This is planned in a series of Midnight manoeuvers (a.k.a Earth Bound Manoeuvers) in which MOM’s engine will be fired in a direction tangential to Earth while MOM is at its closest orbital position to Earth.
The six ellipses represent the various orbits of the spacecraft around Earth and the outward trajectory represents the Trans-Mars Injection Manoeuver.

The first of this series of Midnight Manoeuvers is planned at 01: 17 Hrs IST tonight !
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:22 PM
^ not clear if this includes fuel for breaking into mars orbit....

Yeah, I didn't account for that. So also considering the MOI burn, perhaps roughly 50-100 kgs will be left.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/06/2013 02:25 PM
Nerve Center of MOM mission- ISTRAC
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Lars_J on 11/06/2013 03:55 PM
A great launch - Congratulations to all involved!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (ETD 0908UTC)
Post by: baldusi on 11/06/2013 05:39 PM
By the way, there are no slingshots or magnetic fields involved in this. To perform a slingshot requires three bodies, one of them being the spacecraft. Examples of the two other bodies are the Earth and the Moon (spacecraft in orbit around Earth slingshots past the Moon) or the Sun and the Earth (spacecraft in orbit around Sun slingshots past the Earth). As MOM is in orbit around Earth and won't be going near the Moon, there can be no slingshot.
Isn't the efficiency of the perigee burn given because of the Oberth Effect? If somebody tried to explain to a journalist that it takes advantage of the stronger gravitational field and subsequent maximum on momentum energy to maximize the efficiency of the reaction mass wrt to the apogee, I wouldn't be surprised if the journalist would have understood a slingshot and may be remembered the word field, thus, it surely meant a sling shot through the magnetic filed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/06/2013 06:15 PM
^ not clear if this includes fuel for breaking into mars orbit....

Yeah, I didn't account for that. So also considering the MOI burn, perhaps roughly 50-100 kgs will be left.

Plus, there will be at least three mid course corrections en route as well.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/A-star-trek-300-day-game-of-maths-maze-and-Mars/articleshow/25279010.cms   (second last para)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Olaf on 11/06/2013 06:54 PM
1. Early tomorrow (Thursday) at 1.17 a.m. the on-board motors of Mars Orbiter will be fired for around 200 seconds to raise its orbit by around 4,120 km to 28,785 km
If this is IST, than it just happened.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/06/2013 07:01 PM
Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
First Midnight Manouever of ISRO’s Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft completed successfully.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/06/2013 08:09 PM

Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
First Midnight Manouever of ISRO’s Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft completed successfully.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058

Good. One down five to go.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/06/2013 09:50 PM
^ not clear if this includes fuel for breaking into mars orbit....

Yeah, I didn't account for that. So also considering the MOI burn, perhaps roughly 50-100 kgs will be left.

This article says that their nominal objective is to use 800 kg of fuel for completing the mission, and they've kept 50 kg in reserve for any unplanned corrective maneuvers required:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/367441/saving-fuel-critical-mars-mission.html

If by some miracle everything were to go perfectly and that 50 kg reserve still remained, I wonder if it could be enough to fling it somewhere else? Is the asteroid belt too far?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/07/2013 12:29 AM
Attaching the details about apogee and perigee of MOM, as on Nov 6th and Nov 7th. Apogee has been increased from 23,903 km to 28,746 km.
(source: http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=39370)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/07/2013 01:57 AM
^ not clear if this includes fuel for breaking into mars orbit....

Yeah, I didn't account for that. So also considering the MOI burn, perhaps roughly 50-100 kgs will be left.

This article says that their nominal objective is to use 800 kg of fuel for completing the mission, and they've kept 50 kg in reserve for any unplanned corrective maneuvers required:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/367441/saving-fuel-critical-mars-mission.html

If by some miracle everything were to go perfectly and that 50 kg reserve still remained, I wonder if it could be enough to fling it somewhere else? Is the asteroid belt too far?

They can try for Vesta flyby! ISRO is already planning for a mission to Vesta.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/07/2013 05:29 AM
Isn't the efficiency of the perigee burn given because of the Oberth Effect?

Yes. For apogee raising or going into a hyperbolic trajectory, you want to do this during the fastest point of the trajectory, which is at perigee. Similarly, when going into orbit around another planet, you want to perform the braking burn as close to the planet as possible, but not too close as otherwise you could crash into the planet!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: bad_astra on 11/07/2013 07:02 AM
Is 2013 even a launch window to Mars?
Very unlikely that this will launch in 2013. I'm going to say 2016 at the earliest.
I don't know why they're even claiming it would launch in 2013, hell the design isn't even finalized yet.

You were saying?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/07/2013 07:12 AM
Delta-v required for MTT = 1525.5 m/s
Delta-v required for MOI = 1111.5 m/s
Total propellant requirement to achieve desired orbit around Mars = 777 kg
Total propellant available on the orbiter = 852 kg
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 11/07/2013 08:56 AM
November 07, 2013 
 
Mars Orbiter Spacecraft's Orbit Raised
 
The first orbit-raising manoeuvre of India's Mars Orbiter Spacecraft was performed at 01:17 hrs Indian Standard Time (IST) early this morning (November 07, 2013) when the 440 Newton Liquid Engine of the spacecraft was fired for 416 seconds by commanding it from Spacecraft Control Centre (SCC) at ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) at Peenya, Bangalore. With this engine firing, the spacecraft's apogee (farthest point to Earth) has been raised to 28,825 km, while its perigee (nearest point to Earth) is at 252 km.

 It may be recalled that Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, India's first interplanetary spacecraft, was launched into an elliptical earth orbit with a perigee of 248.4 km and an apogee of 23,550 km, inclined at an angle of 19.27 deg to the equator by India's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle in its twenty fifth flight (PSLV-C25). The achieved orbit was very close to the intended one. The launch was conducted from Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC) SHAR, Sriharikota on November 05, 2013. The launch of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft occurred as scheduled from the First Launch Pad at 2:38 pm IST after a fifty six and a half hour count down.

 Following its separation from the fourth stage of PSLV-C25 about 44 minutes after lift-off, the solar panels and the main dish shaped antenna of the Mars Orbiter spacecraft got successfully deployed. Subsequently, the other intended operations to accurately stabilise the spacecraft were also performed successfully.

 All systems onboard the spacecraft are functioning normally. Further orbit raising maneuvers using the 440 Newton Liquid Engine are planned in the coming few days following which the spacecraft will be put on Mars Transfer Trajectory on December 01, 2013. This enables Mars orbiter spacecraft to travel to the vicinity of Mars in September 2014 after a 300 day journey in deep space. At that time, the 440 Newton Liquid Engine is fired again to slow down the spacecraft to enable it to be captured by Martian gravity into an orbit around it.
 
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/07/2013 09:08 AM
November 07, 2013 
 
Mars Orbiter Spacecraft's Orbit Raised
 
The first orbit-raising manoeuvre of India's Mars Orbiter Spacecraft was performed at 01:17 hrs Indian Standard Time (IST) early this morning (November 07, 2013) when the 440 Newton Liquid Engine of the spacecraft was fired for 416 seconds by commanding it from Spacecraft Control Centre (SCC) at ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) at Peenya, Bangalore. With this engine firing, the spacecraft's apogee (farthest point to Earth) has been raised to 28,825 km, while its perigee (nearest point to Earth) is at 252 km.

I remember reading earlier that LAM will be fired for 200 seconds to raise apogee to 28K km. Now, they've fired it for 416 seconds. Is this something to be concerned about? Any idea how much fuel was used up?


Earlier report:
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/others/news/isro-gearing-up-to-raise-orbit-of-mars-orbiter-mission-mangalyaan-442358
Quote
"Early tomorrow (Thursday) at 1.17 a.m. the on-board motors of Mars Orbiter will be fired for around 200 seconds to raise its orbit by around 4,120 km to 28,785 km," S. Arunan, project director, Mars Orbiter Mission told IANS over phone from Bangalore Wednesday.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AlesH on 11/07/2013 12:39 PM
I remember reading earlier that LAM will be fired for 200 seconds to raise apogee to 28K km. Now, they've fired it for 416 seconds. Is this something to be concerned about? Any idea how much fuel was used up?
In my opinion were 200 seconds cited incorrectly. 416 seconds corresponds much better with engine capability (440 N thrust) as the maneuver delta-v was about 115 m/s (I assume) and the mass of the probe around 1350 kg. Fuel consumption for this maneuver is around 50 kg (according to my calculations [by Tsiolkovsky equation]).
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/07/2013 02:52 PM
Second orbit raising maneuver at 02:18 hrs IST, Nov 8th.

Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft will use its Liquid Engine for the second time, tonight at 02:18 Hrs IST, to further boost its velocity and soar higher.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/07/2013 08:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G97LFKpryU
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/07/2013 09:40 PM
What are the expectations around solar flare activity over the period of the voyage?

As we head for solar maximum, what are the implications of that for this mission?

Anybody know what if anything ISRO has done to mitigate the risks associated with this?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Stan Black on 11/07/2013 09:46 PM
Quote
The second orbit raising manueour of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 02:18:51 hrs(IST) on Nov 08, 2013, with a burn time of 570.6 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 28814 km to 40186 km.
http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx
Title: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/07/2013 10:21 PM
Quote
The second orbit raising manueour of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 02:18:51 hrs(IST) on Nov 08, 2013, with a burn time of 570.6 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 28814 km to 40186 km.
http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx

What is the planned maximum Apogee to be just before it leaves Earth orbit?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/07/2013 11:05 PM
Quote
The second orbit raising manueour of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 02:18:51 hrs(IST) on Nov 08, 2013, with a burn time of 570.6 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 28814 km to 40186 km.
http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx

What is the planned maximum Apogee to be just before it leaves Earth orbit?

200,000 KM / 95 hrs duration per orbit revolution

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/mangalyaan-pushed-further-away-from-earth-in-midnight-operation-scientists/297072?h_also_see (http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/mangalyaan-pushed-further-away-from-earth-in-midnight-operation-scientists/297072?h_also_see)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/07/2013 11:27 PM
BBC's Justin Rowlatt interviews Prof J N Goswami of PRL who is a science advisor to this mission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr87bMazZlA
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/08/2013 08:02 AM
What are the expectations around solar flare activity over the period of the voyage?

As we head for solar maximum, what are the implications of that for this mission?

Anybody know what if anything ISRO has done to mitigate the risks associated with this?

Is your concern about radiation? Like Chandrayaan-1, MOM uses a MAR31750 processor for data handling. According to the spec sheet the "R" in the part number indicates a "100 kRads (Si) Guaranteed Radiation Tolerance." (Whatever that means.)

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/08/2013 03:21 PM
What are the expectations around solar flare activity over the period of the voyage?

As we head for solar maximum, what are the implications of that for this mission?

Anybody know what if anything ISRO has done to mitigate the risks associated with this?

Is your concern about radiation? Like Chandrayaan-1, MOM uses a MAR31750 processor for data handling. According to the spec sheet the "R" in the part number indicates a "100 kRads (Si) Guaranteed Radiation Tolerance." (Whatever that means.)



http://www.q-tech.com/radiation.html
http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oce/llis/0824.html

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/08/2013 03:28 PM
Attaching the details about apogee and perigee of MOM as on Nov 8th. Apogee has been raised from 28,733  km to 40,016 km.
(source: http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=39370)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/08/2013 03:36 PM
Update about tonight's (02:10 IST, Nov 9) orbit raising manoeuver, from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
MOM’s Midnight Manoeuvers !

Tonight we have scheduled the largest leap by ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft so far. After raising its apogee to 30 thousand km and 40 thousand km respectively in the last two Midnight Manoeuvers, MOM is all set to gallop to an apogee of 70 thousand km in tonight’s firing of its Liquid engine scheduled at 02:10 Hrs IST.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AlesH on 11/08/2013 10:08 PM
Quote
09-11-2013 The third orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 02:10:43 hrs(IST) on Nov 09, 2013, with a burn time of 707 seconds has been successfully completed. The observed change in Apogee is from 40186km to 71636km

http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx  (http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/09/2013 12:46 AM
Attaching the details about apogee and perigee of MOM as on Nov 9th. Apogee has been raised from 40,016 km to 71,159 km.
(source: http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=39370)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: pospa on 11/09/2013 07:42 AM
Attaching the details about apogee and perigee of MOM as on Nov 9th. Apogee has been raised from 40,016 km to 71,159 km.
ISRO is reporting a bit different numbers: ... The observed change in Apogee is from 40186km to 71636km.
http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx
Why norad and isro has not the same numbers and who's numbers are more accurate?
Thx
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/09/2013 02:34 PM
I get the impression that these maneuvers are initiated from ground control when the satellite is at it perigee.
Can these maneuvers be automated and executed using a closed loop control methodology?

The craft should be able to figure out its proximity based on signal latency or a star map or even something as basic as a radar ..

What aspect of navigating the craft requires the maneuver to be initiated from ground control? (Other than the need to maintain control of sequential flow of events)

Thanks in advance for your insights!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jcm on 11/10/2013 02:04 AM
Attaching the details about apogee and perigee of MOM as on Nov 9th. Apogee has been raised from 40,016 km to 71,159 km.
ISRO is reporting a bit different numbers: ... The observed change in Apogee is from 40186km to 71636km.
http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx
Why norad and isro has not the same numbers and who's numbers are more accurate?
Thx

Probably different definitions - for example osculating versus mean elements. Also possibly both are inaccurate,
but I would use the SpaceTrack TLE values for software that expects TLE data; my guess is that the ISRO values
may reflect the actual heights on that orbit, but I haven't done any calculations to analyse it.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: baldusi on 11/10/2013 02:06 AM
I get the impression that these maneuvers are initiated from ground control when the satellite is at it perigee.
Can these maneuvers be automated and executed using a closed loop control methodology?

The craft should be able to figure out its proximity based on signal latency or a star map or even something as basic as a radar ..

What aspect of navigating the craft requires the maneuver to be initiated from ground control? (Other than the need to maintain control of sequential flow of events)

Thanks in advance for your insights!
Given the low perturbation orbit, they can predict with great precision where it is. They might have to update the necessary orbital parameters after each firing. At least that's how I would do it. I would require the ground to give it a "go for execute". Of course that's not actually sending the firing command. But rather uploading orbital parameters, getting a full check of status, and a time of firing. And when everything checks out a go ahead (like "fire in 5h, with xyz attitude to achieve a delta-v of Xm/s"). The delta-v is data that it gets from the inertial system. So it is sort of closed loop.
But GNC is the most sensitive technology, so i don't think they'll release much data.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 11/10/2013 05:28 AM
I get the impression that these maneuvers are initiated from ground control when the satellite is at it perigee.
I would assume they use command sequences uplinked in advance, which are executed by the spacecraft at specific times. All deep space and Mars orbit maneuvers will have to be done that way anyway, so it would be surprising if they did something different for the small part of the mission that is in earth orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/10/2013 02:40 PM
Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
The fourth Earth bound Manoeuver slated for 02:06 Hrs IST will hurl ISRO’s Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft to an apogee of about one lakh km [100,000 km].
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/10/2013 10:56 PM
ISRO MOM Facebook page says:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058?directed_target_id=0

Quote
During this firing an incremental velocity of 35 m/s has been imparted to the spacecraft. We will come back to you after Orbit determination.

I presume the 4th maneuver is complete, but that it'll take some time to verify whether it was successful.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/10/2013 11:14 PM
ISRO MOM Facebook page says:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058?directed_target_id=0

Quote
During this firing an incremental velocity of 35 m/s has been imparted to the spacecraft. We will come back to you after Orbit determination.

I presume the 4th maneuver is complete, but that it'll take some time to verify whether it was successful.

I've been observing it for the past hour. It seems to be gaining altitude while losing velocity. I've observed the velocity degrade from 11,400 KM/h to 9,999 KM/h See link:

http://www.satview.org/?sat_id=39370U

I believe its still decelerating.

Velocity of 35 m/s = (35 * 3600/1000) KM/hr = 126 KM/hr -- sounds like a course correction maneuver to me.

Is the loss in velocity due to attempt to gain Apogee? Or ..?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/10/2013 11:49 PM
Are you asking about the mechanics of an elliptical Earth orbit? At perigee the velocity will be very fast; at apogee very slow. See for example the attached calculations for one of the prior MOM orbits.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/11/2013 12:12 AM
Are you asking about the mechanics of an elliptical Earth orbit? At perigee the velocity will be very fast; at apogee very slow. See for example the attached calculations for one of the prior MOM orbits.

Hi sdsds, thanks for the info. Conceptually it makes sense to me. Satellite orbiting then may be considered as the "art of falling".

Would I be inaccurate in characterizing an orbit path as a path of controlled fall at a certain altitude with rate of acceleration being the controlling variable?

I guess I am re-acquainting myself with all that forgotten newtonian mechanics!!





Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/11/2013 12:28 AM
Do you guys think apogee determination would take long time as new apogee is largish (100k km)?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: eeergo on 11/11/2013 12:39 AM
I think it's safe to say the burn fell quite a bit shorter than planned. With no change in perigee, whose effect will be small anyway:

Inital orbit: 345.1x71636 km --> ~10.4542 km/s velocity at perigee.

Target orbit: 345.1(assumed)x100000 km --> ~10.5665 km/s velocity at perigee.

Therefore, the delta_v should be ~0.1123 km/s, or 112.3 m/s. If they are reporting only 35, clearly they're missing two thirds of the change in velocity (assuming just a premature cutoff, not pointing errors)

With a totally posigrade delta_v, the new apogee should be slightly under 79000 km.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/11/2013 03:04 AM
Unfortunately NORAD isn't helpful since their last TLE on the spacecraft is 2.5 days ago......

Let's hope it's the ISRO PAO being late on updates and not something going wrong......  ::)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/11/2013 03:28 AM
This analysis is speculative, based on the Facebook page indicating a delta-v of 35 m/s and no further information yet forthcoming from ISRO.

* The relative silence is understandable. ISRO uses India Standard Time which is UTC+5:30. It is thus now ~9:45 a.m. there. It may yet take some time for them to put together a news release.
* As indicated above, 35 m/s if accurate would leave MOM in an orbit with a considerably lower apogee than anticipated. (My spreadsheet shows a maximum of 78,250 km.)
* The good news is that they apparently have the 35 m/s value at all. That seems to imply they received from the spacecraft telemetry directly or indirectly providing this value. That seems to imply the spacecraft data management and communication capabilities were not adversely effected by an anomaly, if in fact an anomaly has occurred.
* It is unclear if they also know the duration of the burn, or the reason why the burn provided less delta-v than anticipated.
* It has not been clear (to me) for what percentage of the orbit they have telemetry coverage using ISRO assets. It is also unclear (as it was with the Russians with F-G) if their mission objectives would allow them to use e.g. NASA or ESA telemetry assets.

Breaking news:
A hiccup in the orbital maneuvers for Mars Orbiter Mission
Posted by Emily Lakdawalla
2013/11/10 10:06 CST

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11102001-a-hiccup-for-mars-orbiter-mission.html

In her blog Lakdawalla writes: I realize this post doesn't contain much information, but I wanted to have something in the blog before I went to bed. I will keep you informed of further developments as I find them out!

Thank-you very much for the update!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/11/2013 04:56 AM
The 440N LAM engine is a relatively mature engine.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1999ESASP.430..579S&defaultprint=YES&filetype=.pdf

It'll be interesting to understand what happened during the maneuver.

If I am not mistaken, ISRO has experience with these maneuvers having that similarly technical orbital maneuvers were undertaken for Chandrayaan-I mission.

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 11/11/2013 05:08 AM
* It has not been clear (to me) for what percentage of the orbit they have telemetry coverage using ISRO assets. It is also unclear (as it was with the Russians with F-G) if their mission objectives would allow them to use e.g. NASA or ESA telemetry assets.
In addition to their own tracking assets, they are getting a lot of DSN time, see http://www.cdscc.nasa.gov/Pages/trackingtoday.html and I would expect they have arrangements to ramp this up if there is an anomaly.

The current orbit is a lot better than what F-G had, it should be visible to a single station for many hours.

Unless there was an irrecoverable hardware failure like Akatsuki, it seems like they are in a pretty good position to recover.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/11/2013 06:04 AM
Quote
The health of ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft is normal.

In the fourth orbit raising operation conducted this morning (02:06 Hrs IST) the apogee of MOM spacecraft was raised to 78,276 km against the targeted apogee of about one lakh km.

This is because the incremental velocity imparted to the spacecraft was 35 m/s against the targeted 130 m/s.


A supplementary orbit raising operation is planned at 05:00 hrs IST on November 12 to raise the apogee to nearly one lakh km.


A detailed press note is appearing shortly on ISRO website.


https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1395620500675890&id=1384015488503058 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1395620500675890&id=1384015488503058)


EDIT:  The forum's new WYSIWYG editor, and I have a duel coming.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/11/2013 06:48 AM
India's Mars Mission hits first hurdle (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/11/2013 07:13 AM
Had been up most of the night scrounging around for updates. Thanks for updates and analysis.  Let's see how will it go.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/11/2013 07:55 AM
It seems ISRO was using the redundant paths introduced in the fuel line for this engine firing.

Quote
it encountered a problem when a specific redundancy test was being conducted and it failed to reach the desired velocity it was to achieve.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424 (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/11/2013 08:19 AM

It seems ISRO was using the redundant paths introduced in the fuel line for this engine firing.

Quote
it encountered a problem when a specific redundancy test was being conducted and it failed to reach the desired velocity it was to achieve.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424 (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424)

Thanks for that. I see that article is again talking about it slingshoting out of Earth orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/11/2013 08:42 AM
ISRO press release
http://www.isro.gov.in/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Nov11_2013
Quote
Supplementary Orbit Raising Manoeuvre Planned for Mars Orbiter Spacecraft
In the fourth orbit-raising operation conducted this morning (Nov 11, 2013), the apogee (farthest point to Earth) of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft was raised from 71,623 km to 78,276 km by imparting an incremental velocity of 35 metres/second (as against 130 metres/second originally planned to raise apogee to about 100,000 [1 lakh] km). The spacecraft is in normal health. A supplementary orbit-raising operation is planned tomorrow (November 12, 2013) at 0500 hrs IST to raise the apogee to nearly 1 lakh km.

During the orbit-raising operations conducted since November 7, 2013, ISRO has been testing and exercising the autonomy functions progressively, that are essential for Trans-Mars Injection (TMI) and Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI).

During the first three orbit-raising operations, the prime and redundant chains of gyros, accelerometers, 22 Newton attitude control thrusters, attitude and orbit control electronics as well as the associated logics for their fault detection isolation, and reconfiguration have been exercised successfully. The prime and redundant star sensors have been functioning satisfactorily. The primary coil of the solenoid flow control valve was used successfully for the first three orbit-raising operations.

During the fourth orbit-raising operations held today (November 11, 2013), the redundancies built-in for the propulsion system were exercised, namely, (a) energising the primary and redundant coils of the solenoid flow control valve of 440 Newton Liquid Engine and (b) logic for thrust augmentation by the attitude control thrusters, when needed. However, when both primary and redundant coils were energised together, as one of the planned modes, the flow to the Liquid Engine stopped. The thrust level augmentation logic, as expected, came in and the operation continued using the attitude control thrusters. This sequence resulted in reduction of the incremental velocity.

While this parallel mode of operating the two coils is not possible for subsequent operations, they could be operated independently in sequence.

So lots of redundancy testing is going on! This wouldn't be possible if they had gone directly for TMI.

Was testing the parallel mode  intentional to trigger thrust augmentation by attitude control thrusters?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/11/2013 09:00 AM

It seems ISRO was using the redundant paths introduced in the fuel line for this engine firing.

Quote
it encountered a problem when a specific redundancy test was being conducted and it failed to reach the desired velocity it was to achieve.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424 (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-mars-mission-hits-first-hurdle-444424)

Thanks for that. I see that article is again talking about it slingshoting out of Earth orbit.

Mostly media is using this terminology. Both Maven and MOM are following the same trajectory. Only difference is major part of Maven's delta-v is provided by the launcher, whereas in MOMs case its the spacecfrat itself that needs to generate additional 1555 m/s delta-v by progressively firing at the perigee.

Also because of such trajectory design ISRO is now getting time to test its systems designed for the first time for the Mars mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/11/2013 10:39 AM
Was testing the parallel mode  intentional to trigger thrust augmentation by attitude control thrusters?

I seriously doubt if this was intentional. I think something didn't work as expected for the 440N engine and as a result the attitude control thrusters fired. Such redundancy tests (at least with the propulsion system) can seriously put the whole mission in jeopardy and they must be aware of this. It's hard to believe that they didn't anticipate how the parallel mode would have behaved, they might have already simulated such tests at LPSC before launch. Not to mention they also lost some fuel (during s/c reorientation, perhaps?) in the process. Surely, something caught them off guard.


Anyway, fingers crossed, hope they will be back on track after tomorrow's manouver.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2013 11:55 AM
So it sounds like they have 2 fuel lines - a main one and an extra one for backup - and the fuel flow through each is regulated by their respective solenoid valve. So as a systems check, they tried to use the main fuel line / flow valve and that worked, then they tried to use the backup fuel line / flow valve and that worked, but when they tried to use both fuel lines  / flow valves at the same time, then that resulted in a stoppage of the fuel flow to the rocket motor and its shutoff.
The automatic thrust augmentation logic then kicked in to restart the motor, however the resulting orbit achieved was only 78K km instead of 100K km.

So what they've learned from this is that they cannot use both valves / fuel lines together at the same time.

I wonder why. Is it a pressure issue? Maybe they can't get the required pressure to push enough fuel through, if both valves are open instead of just either one?

Isn't this something that should have been tested on the ground first? I recall reading that ISRO did not build a duplicate mockup of the spacecraft for testing on the ground, but only tested using software simulations. Maybe this is something which would have turned up had they tested on a physical duplicate of the spacecraft.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/11/2013 12:18 PM
So it sounds like they have 2 fuel lines - a main one and an extra one for backup - and the fuel flow through each is regulated by their respective solenoid valve. So as a systems check, they tried to use the main fuel line / flow valve and that worked, then they tried to use the backup fuel line / flow valve and that worked, but when they tried to use both fuel lines  / flow valves at the same time, then that resulted in a stoppage of the fuel flow to the rocket motor and its shutoff.
The automatic thrust augmentation logic then kicked in to restart the motor, however the resulting orbit achieved was only 78K km instead of 100K km.

So what they've learned from this is that they cannot use both valves / fuel lines together at the same time.

I wonder why. Is it a pressure issue? Maybe they can't get the required pressure to push enough fuel through, if both valves are open instead of just either one?

Isn't this something that should have been tested on the ground first? I recall reading that ISRO did not build a duplicate mockup of the spacecraft for testing on the ground, but only tested using software simulations. Maybe this is something which would have turned up had they tested on a physical duplicate of the spacecraft.


They have tested propulsion system at sea level and simulated vacuum conditions. What could be use of a mode with both the valves opened?

BTW, from this, it seems it was intentional to test the augmentation logic. But they could have very well regulated the thrust of the main engine to trigger the same logic.

Quote
“The satellite’s engine doesn’t work when both coils are simultaneously on,” a spokesman for the ISRO told The Wall Street Journal.

“This is not at all a setback, we got our redundancies [backup plans] checked by this process,” said the spokesman, who declined to be named. He said it was not necessary for both coils to be on at the same time during the rest of the flight plan.

Quote
http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/11/11/first-hiccup-for-indias-mars-mission/

So their are two levels of redundancies for propulsion: 1) first is a redundant fuel line to the main engine that would be used in case the prime fuel line suffers failure and 2) is the use of attitude thrusters for augmentation/provision of thrust.

Now we know that the 2nd and the last option can provide 1/3 rd thrust required.

Hoping for the best!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/11/2013 12:27 PM
The LAM control software incorporates "Thrust level augmentation logic". So yes, it was intentional that that attitude control thrusters fired, when the S/C sensed that its main engine was not firing.


Using the dated specifications (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1999ESASP.430..579S&defaultprint=YES&filetype=.pdf) for a LAM that uses MMH/MON (as opposed to MMH/N2O4 - which is what Mangalyaan uses)- these 22N thrusters are designed for a cumulative operational lifetime of 70k sec, and for maximum continuous steady state firing of 10,000 sec (2h 45 min). So there shouldn't be issues there.


Warning: Speculation follows.


I worked on the image of the solenoid valve for the LAM from the same paper with GIMP, colour coding it to show the propellant flow path (as I understand it - caveat lector: The text description in the paper was obstruse, so I ignored it :P ), and I've attached two images. This is obviously very simplistic. Dark yellow is unfiltered prop/oxidiser, light yellow is the filtered stuff. Green denotes the filters, and red as well as blue denote the inner and outer solenoid windings respectively (single redundancy). The alternating blue-teal stripes (second image) show the helical spring that keep a flange of, and hence the whole of the pink plunger pressed flush against the grey walls. The pink plunger is made of a ferro(?)magnetic metal, and is the only bit that moves. If it's not clear from the diagram, the plunger's hollow and the prop flows through the plunger. The exit from the plunger is sealed flush against the grey walls when closed. The wires at the top are the power lines for the solenoids (and maybe other electronics  - sensor lines etc.)


Now, the interesting bit with respect to the 4th burn - is the arrangement of the coils. ISRO are saying that they can operate the valve on either chain - primary or the redundant secondary - but not both at once. One possible modality that reproduces the problem is if both solenoids have different polarities (in terms of their power connections). A passive metal doesn't care about the polarity of a magnet - it's still attracted to it. So in this case, the valve would remain operable on either chain. But if both are energised, then their fields cancel out, and the resulting magnetic force isn't strong enough to overcome the spring force.


Now given that this is a power connection, as well as ISRO permanently ruling out the possibility of concurrent operation of the valve through both chains, makes me think that this isn't an issue that cropped up post launch, and someone did indeed, get the polarities mixed up - during hard-wiring. (THAT Proton launch comes to mind). Then again, the polarities for the coil may be set by a solid state electronics, and may be software defined; but probably not rewritable. Or even if it's rewritable, it may've suffered a Single Event Latchup or a multi-bit error, that can't be detected/rectified by a software update, or power cycling.


As they say, this shouldn't really affect anything. Each coil should be more than powerful enough to operate the valve on its own. But that extra strength from simultaneous operation might've helped overcome some extra friction - due to corrosion/deposits/fuel freezing (in case the heaters gave out).




PS: Just read sanman and antriksh's posts immediately preceding this one. The paper, and the ISRO release say nothing about a backup fuel line and a second solenoid valve. I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming that the LAM only has two solenoid valves - one for the MMH, and one for the N2O4.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2013 12:41 PM
They have tested propulsion system at sea level and simulated vacuum conditions. What could be use of a mode with both the valves opened?

Well, if you're going to try something during the actual spaceflight, you'd better be aware ahead of time of what it's going to result in.

Quote
BTW, from this, it seems it was intentional to test the augmentation logic. But they could have very well regulated the thrust of the main engine to trigger the same logic.

I'm not sure that testing the thrust augmentation logic was intentional - it sounds like it fortunately kicked in on its own, although by then it was only able to achieve 78K km instead of the planned 100K km. Why would you intentionally perform a test that causes your orbit-raising to fall short?

In that case, it might have been better to do it earlier on, instead of during a longer orbit whose period might infringe on your Trans-Mars Injection window (Dec 1).

Quote
Quote
“The satellite’s engine doesn’t work when both coils are simultaneously on,” a spokesman for the ISRO told The Wall Street Journal.

“This is not at all a setback, we got our redundancies [backup plans] checked by this process,” said the spokesman, who declined to be named. He said it was not necessary for both coils to be on at the same time during the rest of the flight plan.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/11/11/first-hiccup-for-indias-mars-mission/

So their are two levels of redundancies for propulsion: 1) first is a redundant fuel line to the main engine that would be used in case the prime fuel line suffers failure and 2) is the use of attitude thrusters for augmentation/provision of thrust.

Now we know that the 2nd and the last option can provide 1/3 rd thrust required.

Hoping for the best!!

Damn chemicals and fluids - so unreliable. Maybe future missions should look at electric propulsion.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2013 01:52 PM


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24900271

Quote
Mr Bagla told BBC News that the attempt on Monday morning used up about 2kg of the craft's 852kg fuel load.

But Mr Bagla added that the spacecraft's insertion into Earth orbit after launch on 5 November had been so precise, 6kg of liquid fuel had been saved. Even with Monday's glitch, the mission still had a fuel surplus of 4kg.

Okay, so they're still ahead of the game
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/11/2013 02:09 PM


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24900271

Quote
Mr Bagla told BBC News that the attempt on Monday morning used up about 2kg of the craft's 852kg fuel load.

But Mr Bagla added that the spacecraft's insertion into Earth orbit after launch on 5 November had been so precise, 6kg of liquid fuel had been saved. Even with Monday's glitch, the mission still had a fuel surplus of 4kg.

Okay, so they're still ahead of the game
It seems to me it was really good to find this problem in Earth orbit.  Typically, planetary injection firings use all possible redundancy, since they are mission critical and can't be fixed from the ground, due to delays.  So I suspect the normal Mars-insertion mode would have been both coils/valves energized.  If so, and if the same problem re-occurred, it would be fatal to the mission.

So at least now they can re-program the burn to be try A, then if that does not work, try B.   MUCH better to find this now, rather than when you try to insert around Mars!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/11/2013 02:43 PM


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24900271

Quote
Mr Bagla told BBC News that the attempt on Monday morning used up about 2kg of the craft's 852kg fuel load.

But Mr Bagla added that the spacecraft's insertion into Earth orbit after launch on 5 November had been so precise, 6kg of liquid fuel had been saved. Even with Monday's glitch, the mission still had a fuel surplus of 4kg.

Okay, so they're still ahead of the game
It seems to me it was really good to find this problem in Earth orbit.  Typically, planetary injection firings use all possible redundancy, since they are mission critical and can't be fixed from the ground, due to delays.  So I suspect the normal Mars-insertion mode would have been both coils/valves energized.  If so, and if the same problem re-occurred, it would be fatal to the mission.

So at least now they can re-program the burn to be try A, then if that does not work, try B.   MUCH better to find this now, rather than when you try to insert around Mars!

Ahhh...Right! all redundancies should be used for critical operations like MOI. Now they will have to try if else. This should not be a big problem and a sw patch can easily take care of that if not already handled by fault tolerance and reconfiguration system.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2013 03:10 PM
Hopefully their software patch can be ready before Dec 1.

Still, it will be interesting to hear from their post-incident review on what caused the problem with using both fuel lines together.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Nomadd on 11/11/2013 04:03 PM
 You tend to open yourself up to unintended oscillations and shockwaves in some systems when you run multiple paths. But, I can see opening both paths when timing is critical, otherwise redundancy wouldn't do you any good. Depends on how smart the controller is. If it could almost instantaneously switch paths if one didn't respond as expected.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2013 10:55 PM
Update from ISRO's MOM Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058?directed_target_id=0

Quote
ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission
6 minutes ago
MOM’s Midnight Manoeuvers !

The supplementary orbit raising manoeuver of ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission spacecraft, to raise the apogee height to about 1 lakh km completed successfully.

Phew!

Just a reminder on Indian units:  1 lakh = 10^5        1 crore = 10^7
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: rickl on 11/11/2013 11:11 PM
Great news!  I was pretty worried yesterday.


It's interesting that the Indian language has short, simple words for such large numbers ("one hundred thousand" and "ten million" in English).
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2013 11:30 PM
I think the origin of India's numbering has to do with what's convenient to represent with the hand.
Base 10 numbering resulted from the 10 fingers we have.
The figure of 1 lakh as 10^5 perhaps because of the 5 digits of the hand.
And then 1 crore as 100 lakhs, because that was a convenient increment up.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/12/2013 02:42 AM
Posts in last few pages are amazing; they're very informative! By the way, here's an update from http://isro.org/mars/updates.aspx:
Quote
Fourth supplementary orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 05:03:50 hrs(IST) on Nov 12, 2013, with a burn Time of 303.8 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 78276km to 118642km.

And, I found this in one of their FB post's comments:
Quote
Question: Could you please check with ISRO whether energizing primary and redundant coils TOGETHER is a mandatory requirement for successful MOI? Now that this mode is ruled out, is ISRO confident of achieving MOI by energizing ONLY ONE COIL AT A TIME (either the primary, or redundant)? Thanks.

ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission: energizing primary and redundant coils together is not a mandatory requirement for MOI or any other phase.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/12/2013 03:17 AM
here's an update from http://isro.org/mars/updates.aspx:
Quote
Fourth supplementary orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 05:03:50 hrs(IST) on Nov 12, 2013, with a burn Time of 303.8 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 78276km to 118642km.

Excellent news! The next opportunity for a burn near perigee (one orbit later than this) appears to be around 46h45m later. That's almost two days, so ~02:45 IST on Nov 14, if my spreadsheet calculations are correct. It would be great to get a confirmation of that timing from ISRO, though!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/12/2013 03:34 AM
here's an update from http://isro.org/mars/updates.aspx:
Quote
Fourth supplementary orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 05:03:50 hrs(IST) on Nov 12, 2013, with a burn Time of 303.8 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 78276km to 118642km.

Excellent news! The next opportunity for a burn near perigee (one orbit later than this) appears to be around 46h45m later. That's almost two days, so ~02:45 IST on Nov 14, if my spreadsheet calculations are correct. It would be great to get a confirmation of that timing from ISRO, though!

Next burn early morning 16th. Now waiting for colored Earth shots!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/12/2013 05:34 AM
Next burn early morning 16th. Now waiting for colored Earth shots!!

I thought payload testing was scheduled for 11th. Has there been a change in plan- after next burn?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/12/2013 06:30 AM
Excellent news glad they recovered from the minor setback they had.

From the schedule of burns I saw earlier on this thread there appears to be something like a two week gap between the penultimate manoeuvre & the final firing to leave Earth orbit. Is this to allow equipment to be further checked out before it departs or is there more to it than this?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/12/2013 06:55 AM
Excellent news glad they recovered from the minor setback they had.

From the schedule of burns I saw earlier on this thread there appears to be something like a two week gap between the penultimate manoeuvre & the final firing to leave Earth orbit. Is this to allow equipment to be further checked out before it departs or is there more to it than this?

From the orbits of mars and earth, at the moment mars is ahead of earth, but the earth which moves faster in the inner orbit is catching up with mars. If the s/c were to leave earth orbit now it would have to travel a longer distance by itself. However if it leaves the earth orbit at end of the month, the earth would have carried it closer to mars and hence a lower travel distance.

My guess is that leaving earth's orbit around the end of the month results in an energy optimized trajectory.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/12/2013 10:49 AM

Excellent news glad they recovered from the minor setback they had.

From the schedule of burns I saw earlier on this thread there appears to be something like a two week gap between the penultimate manoeuvre & the final firing to leave Earth orbit. Is this to allow equipment to be further checked out before it departs or is there more to it than this?

From the orbits of mars and earth, at the moment mars is ahead of earth, but the earth which moves faster in the inner orbit is catching up with mars. If the s/c were to leave earth orbit now it would have to travel a longer distance by itself. However if it leaves the earth orbit at end of the month, the earth would have carried it closer to mars and hence a lower travel distance.

My guess is that leaving earth's orbit around the end of the month results in an energy optimized trajectory.

Thanks. I wondered if it was something like this that was the reason for the delay.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/12/2013 02:28 PM

Excellent news! The next opportunity for a burn near perigee (one orbit later than this) appears to be around 46h45m later. That's almost two days, so ~02:45 IST on Nov 14, if my spreadsheet calculations are correct. It would be great to get a confirmation of that timing from ISRO, though!

Note also that the two intermediate orbits, the one at 78100 and the one at 118400 km have a total period of 1615+2798 = 4413 minutes.
Two revolutions in a 350 x 100000 km orbit would have taken about 4460 minutes, so at the next perigee MOM will be more or less in the same point in space where it would have been if it had been inserted in the correct orbit from the start. I am definitely expecting the next maneuver for that time (shortly after 22UTC on Nov 13)!

edit: this of course assumes that the original targeted orbit was 350 x 100000 km
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/12/2013 05:28 PM
Excellent news glad they recovered from the minor setback they had.

From the schedule of burns I saw earlier on this thread there appears to be something like a two week gap between the penultimate manoeuvre & the final firing to leave Earth orbit. Is this to allow equipment to be further checked out before it departs or is there more to it than this?

From the orbits of mars and earth, at the moment mars is ahead of earth, but the earth which moves faster in the inner orbit is catching up with mars. If the s/c were to leave earth orbit now it would have to travel a longer distance by itself. However if it leaves the earth orbit at end of the month, the earth would have carried it closer to mars and hence a lower travel distance.

My guess is that leaving earth's orbit around the end of the month results in an energy optimized trajectory.
This is correct.  MAVEN is headed directly to Mars (no stay in earth orbit) and the window is from Nov 18th to Dec 7th (but other sources have a 36 day window, see http://www.space-flight.org/docs/2013_winter/FinalProgram.pdf ).  Assuming the optimum is in the middle of the window, the best time to leave Earth for Mars near the end of November.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/14/2013 12:25 AM
Satellite trackers are now reflecting changes in apogee and perigee. Attaching data taken after Nov 12th supplementary maneuver
(source: http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=39370)

By the way, any updates on payload tests? Especially camera :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/14/2013 05:05 AM
^perigee is lower than the previous reported ~345km??
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/14/2013 05:58 AM
MOM orbit at epoch of most recent TLE (Nov 12, 0003UTC):

269 x 117868 km x 19.29°
Argument of perigee: 287.14°


Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/14/2013 06:27 AM

^perigee is lower than the previous reported ~345km??

Is there anything to be concerned about with such a lower than expected perigee?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/14/2013 06:34 AM
Payload testing next week:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mangalyaan-instrument-test-next-week/articleshow/25720266.cms

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 11/14/2013 06:12 PM

^perigee is lower than the previous reported ~345km??

Is there anything to be concerned about with such a lower than expected perigee?

Well, lower perigee means more drag from the upper atmosphere (c.f. Skylab). So, in the long run, the orbit is going to be less stable and will decay faster. In the time-scale that MOM is scheduled to remain in its parking orbit, probably not.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/14/2013 06:51 PM


^perigee is lower than the previous reported ~345km??

Is there anything to be concerned about with such a lower than expected perigee?

Well, lower perigee means more drag from the upper atmosphere (c.f. Skylab). So, in the long run, the orbit is going to be less stable and will decay faster. In the time-scale that MOM is scheduled to remain in its parking orbit, probably not.

Is there likely to be any attempt to raise the perigee with the next burn?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: JWag on 11/14/2013 07:18 PM
I would've thought they deliberately lowered the perigee to take advantage of the Oberth effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect) when doing the final escape burn. 

Disclaimer: I'm not a rocket scientist and may have no idea what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 11/14/2013 08:09 PM
I would be cautious about assuming the "change" in perigee is a real change in the orbit.

If you look at the previous posts by vyoma, the perigee values have bounced around between 270-350 km before (e.g. http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1117771#msg1117771), but burns around perigee and drag shouldn't change the perigee altitude much. I don't have a good feeling what normal perturbations would be in that kind of orbit, but 80 km seems like a lot.

Different sources may also not be directly comparable http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1118227#msg1118227
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Danderman on 11/14/2013 08:28 PM
I would've thought they deliberately lowered the perigee to take advantage of the Oberth effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect) when doing the final escape burn. 


Unless you mean that "deliberately lowered the perigee" = letting natural drag reduce the perigee, any propulsive maneuver to lower the perigee would waste precious propellant.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 11/14/2013 08:39 PM
Unless you mean that "deliberately lowered the perigee" = letting natural drag reduce the perigee, any propulsive maneuver to lower the perigee would waste precious propellant.
The effect of drag on perigee would be negligible in any case, drag is mostly at perigee, which will only lower the apogee.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/14/2013 09:17 PM
Is there any chance there had been a very small retrograde maneuver (e.g. using RCS thrust) at the prior apogee resulting in the lower perigee, and this change wasn't reported until after the subsequent apogee-raising burn?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/15/2013 03:38 AM
I would've thought they deliberately lowered the perigee to take advantage of the Oberth effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect) when doing the final escape burn. 

Unless you mean that "deliberately lowered the perigee" = letting natural drag reduce the perigee, any propulsive maneuver to lower the perigee would waste precious propellant.

The trajectory design for TMI might have required them to lower the perigee (?)

The previous abnormal (4th) manoeuvre might have raised the perigee as a side effect, because the ACT's fired after the LAM failed to fire, thus the delay resulted in applying the thrust at sub-optimal positon in the orbit.....just guessing.

Added later:  Would be nice if "someone" can post the expected orbital parameters after each of the orbit rising manoeuvres.

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/15/2013 04:22 AM
Next orbit raising maneuver: 2 AM IST (approx), Nov 16.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/some-lunar-spell-on-way-to-mars/article5353014.ece
Quote
November 16, around 2 a.m., is when the craft is due to get its orbit raised for the fifth time and also the last time near the Earth. (ISRO discounts the November 12 correction as a supplement of the fourth operation.)

Quote
In the next few days through November 30, some payloads or instruments on the orbiter are to be switched on as part of trials.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/15/2013 11:38 AM
according to http://www.zarya.info/Calendar.php the perigee will be further reduced in tonight's burn
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/15/2013 02:35 PM
Here's the official update from ISRO MOM Facebook page, about next maneuver:
Quote
Tonight is going to be the culmination of the various baby steps MOM has been taking by gradually soaring to higher apogees around Mother Earth. This manoeuver, scheduled at 01:27 hrs IST, will take the spacecraft to - almost half the way to moon - about two lakh kilometers [200,000 km].
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/15/2013 06:25 PM
It is really very interesting how ISRO has gone about this mission. It has certainly made me think about the subject in a more comprehensive manner than before.

While not trivializing any aspect of rocketry and satellite navigation, this approach also helped demystify the subject and made me even more curious about science & technology. And I am just an enthusiast. If this mission has managed to inspire 100 smart students (which I am sure it already did), this mission is already a success!! Way to go and really impressive!

The 400N LAM engine uses hypergolic fuel (Monomethylhydrazine fuel and Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen). Is this a commonly used fuel for on board satellite navigation motors? Are there other fuels that offer similar performance/benefit profile? Could ISRO instead have used other fuels?

Does anyone know how much fuel a craft has to burn to attain a certain amount of velocity?
How much weight does fuel and associated storage and delivery mechanisms contribute to the overall weight of the craft?

Thinking wildly here .. would it be possible to "throw" MOM over to Jupiter and further if and when the Mars mission is completed? (assuming there is enough fuel to navigate/control attitude/altitude)

Or how about to Venus? By hopping off Earth's and Sun gravity?

Your insight would be appreciated!





Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/15/2013 07:09 PM
latest facebook update

Quote
440N Liquid Engine completed firing successfully to raise the apogee to about 1.92 lakh km in this 5th Manoeuver
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sdsds on 11/15/2013 07:53 PM
The 400N LAM engine uses hypergolic fuel (Monomethylhydrazine fuel and Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen). Is this a commonly used fuel for on board satellite navigation motors? Are there other fuels that offer similar performance/benefit profile? Could ISRO instead have used other fuels?

Yes MMH/MON is a common propellant combination. Yes, there are alternatives. ISRO undoubtedly chose this option because it is a tried-and-true technology with which they have deep familiarity.


Quote
Does anyone know how much fuel a craft has to burn to attain a certain amount of velocity?

This question is answered by the Rocket Equation, often also called the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation

according to http://www.zarya.info/Calendar.php the perigee will be further reduced in tonight's burn

latest facebook update

Quote
440N Liquid Engine completed firing successfully to raise the apogee to about 1.92 lakh km in this 5th Manoeuver

An apogee at 192000 km is not consistent with an orbital period of 91.25 hours (as reported at zarya.info) unless the perigee is raised to 1050 km. What am I missing?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/15/2013 08:13 PM
from the apogee distance of 192874 km reported here http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx and a perigee distance of 250 km I get a period of 91.3 hours
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Comga on 11/16/2013 02:14 AM
It is really very interesting how ISRO has gone about this mission. It has certainly made me think about the subject in a more comprehensive manner than before.

While not trivializing any aspect of rocketry and satellite navigation, this approach also helped demystify the subject and made me even more curious about science & technology. And I am just an enthusiast. If this mission has managed to inspire 100 smart students (which I am sure it already did), this mission is already a success!! Way to go and really impressive!

The 400N LAM engine uses hypergolic fuel (Monomethylhydrazine fuel and Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen). Is this a commonly used fuel for on board satellite navigation motors? Are there other fuels that offer similar performance/benefit profile? Could ISRO instead have used other fuels?

Does anyone know how much fuel a craft has to burn to attain a certain amount of velocity?
How much weight does fuel and associated storage and delivery mechanisms contribute to the overall weight of the craft?

Thinking wildly here .. would it be possible to "throw" MOM over to Jupiter and further if and when the Mars mission is completed? (assuming there is enough fuel to navigate/control attitude/altitude)

Or how about to Venus? By hopping off Earth's and Sun gravity?

Your insight would be appreciated!

Welcome
If you really want the fuel load and burn details read back page by page. It's all there in great detail not so long ago.

Those are indeed wild ideas. Wild to the point of silly. The solar system is an enormous structure. Spacecraft are built for specific purposes. Flitting about is pointless and impractical, most likely impossible. Plus there were already discussions of slightly less-than-impossible ideas like aero-braking for extended missions.

As it stands our Indian colleagues are doing remarkable things incredibly fast on extremely lean budgets. These are stellar and thoroughly admirable accomplisments.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/16/2013 02:59 AM
Updates on burn time, velocity boost and observed change in apogee, from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
The fifth orbit raising Manoeuver of ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft, starting at 01:27 hrs (IST) on Nov 16, 2013, with a burn Time of 243 seconds, and incremental velocity of 101.55 m/s has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 118642 km to 192874 km.

Attaching data collected from http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=39370, as on Nov 16th.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: cave_dweller on 11/16/2013 05:52 AM
It is really very interesting how ISRO has gone about this mission. It has certainly made me think about the subject in a more comprehensive manner than before.

While not trivializing any aspect of rocketry and satellite navigation, this approach also helped demystify the subject and made me even more curious about science & technology. And I am just an enthusiast. If this mission has managed to inspire 100 smart students (which I am sure it already did), this mission is already a success!! Way to go and really impressive!

The 400N LAM engine uses hypergolic fuel (Monomethylhydrazine fuel and Mixed Oxides of Nitrogen). Is this a commonly used fuel for on board satellite navigation motors? Are there other fuels that offer similar performance/benefit profile? Could ISRO instead have used other fuels?

Does anyone know how much fuel a craft has to burn to attain a certain amount of velocity?
How much weight does fuel and associated storage and delivery mechanisms contribute to the overall weight of the craft?

Thinking wildly here .. would it be possible to "throw" MOM over to Jupiter and further if and when the Mars mission is completed? (assuming there is enough fuel to navigate/control attitude/altitude)

Or how about to Venus? By hopping off Earth's and Sun gravity?

Your insight would be appreciated!

Welcome
If you really want the fuel load and burn details read back page by page. It's all there in great detail not so long ago.

Those are indeed wild ideas. Wild to the point of silly. The solar system is an enormous structure. Spacecraft are built for specific purposes. Flitting about is pointless and impractical, most likely impossible. Plus there were already discussions of slightly less-than-impossible ideas like aero-braking for extended missions.

As it stands our Indian colleagues are doing remarkable things incredibly fast on extremely lean budgets. These are stellar and thoroughly admirable accomplisments.

Pardon my naivete. I was under the impression if a craft can be maneuvered to transfer orbits using velocity and apogee, assuming there is enough fuel, I wondered if it would be possible to transfer a craft in Martian orbit to a helio centric orbit and then eventually on to another orbit ...

Since Mars has weaker gravity, my guess is that it should require less fuel to escape mars. Agreed the solar system is a huge space. And by that fact it would be impractical to carry and rely only on fuel for return journey from Mars (if humans ever got around to that). And if it were that it is possible to conduct a reverse hohmann transfer between mars and earth, I wondered it should be possible to then transfer to Venus using similar maneuvers.

Now, I am curious as to how a return travel from Mars would be conducted. I think I've found myself enough thoughts to be occupied for a while!




Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/16/2013 06:51 PM
The argument of the perigee of the orbit is now 288.88°
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Danderman on 11/16/2013 07:00 PM
assuming there is enough fuel, I wondered if it would be possible to transfer a craft in Martian orbit to a helio centric orbit and then eventually on to another orbit ...

There isn't enough fuel. Or propellant.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/16/2013 07:45 PM
assuming there is enough fuel, I wondered if it would be possible to transfer a craft in Martian orbit to a helio centric orbit and then eventually on to another orbit ...

There isn't enough fuel. Or propellant.

It's probably barely possible, but would requires a craft built just for this mission, consisting of almost all fuel and very little payload.   The Dawn mission has done exactly this to visit two asteroids, but to do so it had to use ion engines, and asteroids have much smaller gravity wells than Mars.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/16/2013 09:51 PM
I thought that with an elongated Mars orbit, that this would make it easier for MOM to escape Mars gravity for other nearby targets. Wolfram Alpha says the distance between Mars and the asteroid belt is about 1.6 AU, or 2.4 x 10^8 km. It also says that the distance between Mars and Jupiter's Trojan Asteroids is 2.5 AU, or 3.8 x 10^8 km.

Here is a list of asteroids which pass closest to Mars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mars-crossing_minor_planets

Not sure if it might be possible to take advantage of some useful orbital timing to visit one of these other objects.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/17/2013 07:15 AM
If there's surplus fuel left,  they would most likely attempt settling s/c in a lower orbit and do more useful science, something they otherwise can't do because of launch vehicle limitation. This might even help them to go for close flybys of Martian moons. Considering this is their maiden mission to Mars, I don't see them attempting over ambitious feats.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/19/2013 07:34 AM
I've moaned about this before, but the MAVEN launch has stoked me again. Why did we use tracking ships, and settle for a 10 min LOS, and a delayed launch, instead of requesting TDRS support? Don't tell me the former was actually cheaper...
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/19/2013 03:08 PM
The argument of the perigee of the orbit is now 288.88°
At launch it was ~282.752° , any idea if this change is good ( as per mission plan) or an anamoly?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/20/2013 01:12 PM
Here's an interview with ISRO chief, which has pretty detailed info on spacecraft operations and technicalities:
http://thehindu.com/opinion/interview/mars-orbiter-tests-have-shown-our-ability-to-predict-isro-chairman/article5372129.ece
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/20/2013 02:22 PM
MOM sends a postcard!!

First ever pic of Earth taken by Mars Color Camera. More on MOM FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/20/2013 03:09 PM
MOM sends a postcard!!

First ever pic of Earth taken by Mars Color Camera. More on MOM FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058

First ever colored shots by an Indian spacecraft!!!! 8)

Vasudev Kutumbakam
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Borklund on 11/20/2013 03:22 PM
Congratulations India and the ISRO :) I look forward to seeing pictures of Mars next year, fingers crossed!
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/20/2013 04:08 PM
Why 2013?

He said doing it January 2016 would be costlier for any agency. “The speed to be given to the spacecraft now is 2.5 km per second; in 2016 it would be 3.6 km per second and would need higher propulsion and lighter payloads” than the current 15 kg.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/mom-maven-a-tale-of-2-mars-orbiters/article5370153.ece
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 11/20/2013 09:19 PM
I wonder if they can get a picture of India at night sometime before Earth departure? Too bad they missed Diwali by a couple of weeks, or they could have gotten a good nighttime image.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/21/2013 08:07 AM
Here's an interview with ISRO chief, which has pretty detailed info on spacecraft operations and technicalities:
http://thehindu.com/opinion/interview/mars-orbiter-tests-have-shown-our-ability-to-predict-isro-chairman/article5372129.ece

I'm not sure if this was posted before, but the article says that trans Mars injection is at about 00:36 hours on 1 December. If that's Indian time (+5.5 hours), that should be 18:48 hours UTC on 30 November. Delta-V is 648 m/s for a 1,351 second burn (about 22 and a half minutes).
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/21/2013 09:47 AM
^ 22.5 minutes sounds like a pretty long burn time for the LAM - more than the launch time for a typical PSLV, 4 stages combined.

Any one know if the LAM ( assuming it is very similar to the LAM of ISRO's other sattelites) was fired for this long a period at one go?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/21/2013 02:56 PM
^ 22.5 minutes sounds like a pretty long burn time for the LAM - more than the launch time for a typical PSLV, 4 stages combined.

Any one know if the LAM ( assuming it is very similar to the LAM of ISRO's other sattelites) was fired for this long a period at one go?

Normal for LAM.

Quote
The first critical orbit-raising manoeuvre of GSAT-8 was successfully conducted at 03:58 hrs (IST) this morning (May 22, 2011) with the firing of the 440 Newton Liquid Apogee Motor (LAM) on board GSAT-8 for 95 minutes by commanding the satellite from ISRO's Master Control Facility (MCF) at Hassan in Karnataka.

http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?May22_2011
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/21/2013 03:03 PM
^antriksh: thanks! for clearing my query on LAM's endurance.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/22/2013 02:01 AM
Kurian Mathew
Principal investigator, Methane Sensors for Mars (MSM)

Mathew is aware of the keen gaze of the World space community on the methane sensors his team put together at Space Applications Centre, Ahmedabad. He however, wears the attention with rare grace and nonchalance. The sensors will measure methane levels in the Mars atmosphere.

"This is the first time that a differential radiometer based on Fabry-Perot Etalon filters will be used for remote sensing of a planetary atmosphere. Such a complex payload was realized in one-and-a-half years and the credit goes to the payload team who worked day and night under the leadership of associate project director S S Sarkar, and deputy project director A R Srinivasan," says Mathew.

Mars Orbiter Mission has a highly elliptical orbit which is generally not suitable for remote sensing. But this apparent drawback was made an advantage by a suitable imaging strategy. "At the apogee of the orbit, satellite altitude is about 80,000 km while the ground track velocity is less than 20m per sec. This means the MSM will look on the same ground scene for longer periods. By integrating the MSM signal for longer time intervals it is possible to increase the signal-to-noise performance of the sensor. So, even though the expected methane concentration in the Martian atmosphere is extremely low, we may detect it." Mathew said. "Retrieval of methane concentration from MSM data is a challenge as it requires correcting the data for absorption by carbon dioxide gas which constitutes about 95% of the Martian atmosphere," he added.

The MSM's sensitivity will be calibrated during the Earth-bound phase of the mission. "By measuring reflected solar radiation from the Earth surface it is possible to estimate methane concentration in the atmosphere which will validate the performance of the sensor."


Source: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-10-25/ahmedabad/43393926_1_mars-orbiter-mission-martian-atmosphere-payloads (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-10-25/ahmedabad/43393926_1_mars-orbiter-mission-martian-atmosphere-payloads)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/22/2013 02:02 AM
Ashutosh Arya

Principal Investigator, Mars Colour Camera (MCC)

When the Mars Colour Camera aboard Mangalyaan sends back the first colour images of the Martian surface in September next year, Ashutosh Arya and his team will heave a sigh of relief at Space Applications Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad. These will be India's first colour images from space by a camera developed indigenously by ISRO. The MCC will also record Mangalyaan's 10-month journey.

The size of a shoe box and armed with a high-resolution camera, the MCC's job is to click images of the red planet surface from the nearest and farthest points of Mangalyaan's orbit. Interestingly, Mangalyaan will enter its Mars orbit a few days before the ISON comet whizzes past the red planet. "Developed countries plan exclusive space missions to click images of comets. Mangalyaan will be there before the comet arrives near Mars. This gives us a unique opportunity to click images of the comet's tail," says Arya. Besides capturing the comet, the MCC will capture images of geological features on Mars - like rivers, valleys, delta, and dune structures. "MCC will work in synergy with the many sensors aboard Mangalyaan," says Arya.

Arya's team faced many challenges when designing the camera. The principal one was weight reduction and the stringent environmental tests. "The optics and the mechanical components were subject to severe thermoware and vibration tests and the camera remained intact. Another challenge was to make the camera meet our weight budget. We succeeded in both," says Arya. When MCC is 370km away from the Mars surface it provides a frame image of 25m x 25m. At the farthest point on the orbit, 80,000 km away, MCC provides a 4km x 4km field of view.

Source: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-10-25/ahmedabad/43393926_1_mars-orbiter-mission-martian-atmosphere-payloads (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-10-25/ahmedabad/43393926_1_mars-orbiter-mission-martian-atmosphere-payloads)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/22/2013 06:52 AM
When MCC is 370km away from the Mars surface it provides a frame image of 25m x 25m. At the farthest point on the orbit, 80,000 km away, MCC provides a 4km x 4km field of view.


really?!? this would mean that the camera has a centimeter-resolution at periapsis!
I think that these numbers do not refer to the field of view but to the pixel size, or to the spatial resolution.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: notsorandom on 11/22/2013 02:34 PM
When MCC is 370km away from the Mars surface it provides a frame image of 25m x 25m. At the farthest point on the orbit, 80,000 km away, MCC provides a 4km x 4km field of view.


really?!? this would mean that the camera has a centimeter-resolution at periapsis!
I think that these numbers do not refer to the field of view but to the pixel size, or to the spatial resolution.
Yes it must be referring to the spatial resolution and not the total image size size. The picture of Earth that was recently taken showed a much larger area than would have been possible if the MCC was only able to take 4 km wide images at Mars.  For comparison MRO is able to resolve at about 30 cm per pixel and HiRISE is a much larger and massive sensor.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/23/2013 04:11 AM
Quote
Of the orbiter’s five payloads, three had been tested from November 19. They are the MCC, the Martian Exospheric Neutron Composition Analyser to look at the exosphere of Mars and the Thermal Infrared Imaging System (TIIS) to study the Red Planet’s geological activity. “We switched on these three and their health is normal. They are basically working,

Quote
Mars spacecraft, said ISRO had successfully completed the calibration of the spacecraft’s high-gain and medium-gain antenna. “All the spacecraft systems are working normally. We are preparing for the orbiter’s trans-Mars insertion on December 1,”


http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/orbiters-mars-colour-camera-proves-itself-with-earth-pictures/article5380427.ece (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/orbiters-mars-colour-camera-proves-itself-with-earth-pictures/article5380427.ece)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/25/2013 02:43 AM
From The Hindu interview http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/interview/mars-orbiter-tests-have-shown-our-ability-to-predict-isro-chairman/article5372129.ece:
Quote
In the early hours of December 1, around 00.36 hours, we have the trans-Mars injection of our Mars spacecraft. On that day, we are going to use the 440 Newton liquid engine again to impart a delta-v, that is, an incremental velocity of nearly 648 metres a second to the spacecraft and the engine will burn for 1,351 seconds.
.
.
When this running of the 440 Newton liquid engine takes place on December 1, we also have eight numbers of 22 Newton control thrusters firing.

It seems 440N LAM and all 8 thrusters are going to fired together, on Dec 1. Is this maneuver specific to MOM? Or, is this a normal technique? Was it done in Chandrayaan-1 and/or any GSATs as well?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/25/2013 03:50 PM
@vyoma: you should e-mail them and ask :D
isrosocialmedia AT isro.gov.in

https://twitter.com/Mangalyaan1/status/403539759538384896




Also, NASA's "Eyes on the Solar System" (eyes.nasa.gov) has now added Mangalyaan to its virtual environment!
https://twitter.com/nasa_eyes/status/403666988230139905
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/27/2013 03:06 PM
An update about TMI:
Quote
"The trans-Mars injection- we are planning to depart on December 1, 2013 early hours of 00:49 hours IST and we are going to burn a liquid engine for duration of roughly 23 minutes which will impart an incremental velocity of 648 metres per second consuming a fuel of 198kgs," ISRO Scientific Secretary V Koteswara Rao told reporters here.

Quote
"We have planned right now four mid course corrections, first one will be around December 11- plus or minus a couple of days depending on the deviation how it is going."

"Second one will be in April 2014, third one will be in August 2014 and the last one- the fourth one will be on September 14 that is 10 days before we insert into Martian orbit. Couple of day's uncertainty will be there....," he added.

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report-isro-all-set-for-trans-mars-injection-on-december-1-1925902
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jcm on 11/27/2013 06:56 PM
@vyoma: you should e-mail them and ask :D
isrosocialmedia AT isro.gov.in

https://twitter.com/Mangalyaan1/status/403539759538384896




Also, NASA's "Eyes on the Solar System" (eyes.nasa.gov) has now added Mangalyaan to its virtual environment!
https://twitter.com/nasa_eyes/status/403666988230139905

Note that the @mangalyaan1 feed is apparently not an official ISRO twitter account - email to me from isrosocialmedia AT isro.gov.in as follows:

"We have not yet started any twitter feed. Please note that,
facebook.com/isromom is the only social media entity officially hosted by
ISRO."

Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/28/2013 04:07 AM
Here's another tidbit:
Quote
Mars Programme Director M Annadurai told reporters that the spacecraft would require fuel of 190 kg and time of 1,346 seconds to achieve trans-Mars injection. “Sixteen hours before firing, we will pre-load all commands to the spacecraft and six hours ahead of firing, we will verify whether all processes and commands are accurate.”

Quote
The fuel it has consumed so far is 338 kg. The total fuel spent by the time it reaches mars will be 832 kg, leaving 20 kg for rest of the activity of the spacecraft.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/371466/isros-mars-mission-all-set.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 11/28/2013 07:47 AM
A slide show on ISTRAC as it tracks MOM:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/science-technology/istrac-nerve-centre-of-indias-mars-mission/slideshow/26515582.cms
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 11/29/2013 08:05 AM
Two opportunities for MOI

Quote
“MAVEN upon reaching the designated Mars orbit will have only one chance to enter the the orbit, and if it does not do so, that will be the end. But we have an additional opportunity. In case we reach on September 24, 2014 and we are not able to perform the orbit insertion maneuver, we will have another opportunity after three days of orbiting Mars,” said MoM project director, M Annadurai

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-mom-has-edge-over-maven-say-isro-scientists-1926574 (http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-mom-has-edge-over-maven-say-isro-scientists-1926574)
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vineethgk on 11/29/2013 09:27 AM
I am wondering whether the above DNA report is correct or whether it is just a case of misreporting and typo (or even bluff)?

Quote
we will have another opportunity after three days of orbiting Mars
???

As per Emily's article in the link attached below, both MAVEN and MOM seem to get only a single chance to enter Martian orbit.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11220947-maven-mom-trajectory-explainer.html (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11220947-maven-mom-trajectory-explainer.html)

Quote
Both spacecraft get only one chance to enter Mars orbit. Mars Orbiter Mission will again be using its single 440-Newton rocket to perform the orbit insertion maneuver. MAVEN has six rocket motors, each of which can achieve 200 Newtons of thrust.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/29/2013 02:37 PM
Alright.... Alright. I'm not going to rant about the Indian Corporate Media again.

So, a sincere request: can you guys read the "articles" you share, perhaps even read the comments below said "articles", and then use your discretion? I'm now recovering from a self-inflicted concussion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Phfbkb1I88) thanks to having clicked on that DNA link.

As for the injection. It's not a discrete number of chances. It's a window that's determined by the delta-v margin still available to the spacecraft. (There may be other concerns to take care of, like ensuring the S/C isn't eclipsed, and has power etc. - but delta-v is a physical requirement, and likely to be the determining factor) Both MAVEN and Mangalyaan are in bound helio-centric orbits. That means, if they miss this particular window, they'll have another opportunity many many many years later when the alignments all match (if the S/C aren't yanked out of their heliocentric orbits by Jupiter, or if they don't collide with something in the asteroid belt... I don't know how far out they go if they miss capture burn). But I don't think they expect either S/C to survive that long. So it's essentially just this window.

Now, within that window, you're likely to have a single point at which the delta-v required for Mars orbit capture is minimum. But (and this is only the preliminary speculation of a someone not trained in orbital mechanics) if the S/C is using gravity assist to reduce its Mars-relative velocity (depends on the trajectory) - this minimum delta-v point may not be unique, and the set of all such points may not be contiguous. In effect, this offers multiple points for orbit capture with the same delta-v costs. But all these points still lie in the same window.

So, it may well be the case that MAVEN's trajectory doesn't exhibit a 'dual trough' in the "Delta-v required for MOI" vs "MET" graph; and Mangalyaan's does.

But it's definitely not "after 3 days in Martian orbit". Because..well, YOU DO AN MOI..... TO GET INTO MARTIAN ORBIT. That's either a solecism by Annadurai, or a typo by this "correspondent". It may be a second opportunity 3 days, after the first opportunity (and 3 days inside the Martian sphere of influence).




EDIT: Forgot to mention this. Comparisons between Mangalyaan and MAVEN are NOT inevitable. You could, you know... just NOT DO IT.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 07:19 AM
Reminder: MOM trans-Mars injection maneuver starts to-day November 30 at 1919UTC for a duration of 23 minutes
Title: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/30/2013 10:23 AM
Reminder: MOM trans-Mars injection maneuver starts to-day November 30 at 1919UTC for a duration of 23 minutes

I guess there is a very precise point in the orbit that the burn has to occur at & if they miss that can they just attempt it at the same point on the next orbit round, or is it not that straightforward?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/30/2013 12:15 PM
They can attempt another burn at next orbit but not without penalty on fuel.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/30/2013 12:36 PM
Reminder: MOM trans-Mars injection maneuver starts to-day November 30 at 1919UTC for a duration of 23 minutes

Will there be a webcast of this milestone, or just updates?
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: chota on 11/30/2013 12:42 PM
Mostly updates from https://www.facebook.com/isromom

Here are some more details on what happens

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-poised-for-final-toss-off-earth-on-sunday/article5407608.ece

Quote
upload the commands of sequence in a time-tagged manner based on various parameters

Quote
slightest deviation in time, duration of firing or the speed to be given to the spacecraft would be immediately red-flagged so that the controllers could set the contingencies in motion

Quote
The engine burn to push the satellite out will start when it is over HBK (Hartebeesthoek) 60 km north of Johannesburg in South Africa, and end somewhere over Bangalore

Quote
The engine burn was aimed at giving the satellite a final escape velocity (which should be a minimum of 10.7 km per second). At launch, it got the speed of 9.8 km per second. The six orbit raises added 0.873 km per second; the December 1 burn should give it the last push of 0.648 km a second — which all add up to the crucial velocity of about 11.4 km per second
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/30/2013 01:44 PM
Thanks Chota. Hoping for the best!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/30/2013 05:28 PM
Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
T - 01:00:00
On-board Computer takes over the operations.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 05:59 PM
Quote
Forward rotation of the spacecraft, to put it into the right orientation to fire, has commenced.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:01 PM
Forward rotation of the spacecraft, to put it into the right orientation to fire, has commenced. - 00:19 IST

Update: Forward rotation completed. (00:28 IST)


(PS - times are times of FB posts)

Btw, I've managed to commandeer a windows laptop to run Eyes. Got a couple of screenshots from NASA Eyes (where I'm watching this thing live.) I doubt real-time tracking will occur (and be reflected in the suite), but the trajectory shown should be accurate right up until TMI TIG.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:09 PM
Wow, just passed over the terminator, and it's just struck me that the burn is happening during local night. Spacecraft running purely off battery power. #NowJittery.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/30/2013 06:11 PM
Eight minutes to the burn if the timings are as noted above.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Maciej Olesinski on 11/30/2013 06:15 PM
Thanks for Twitter update! I am very interested in their mission but somehow it is hard for me to belive that they will succed
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:17 PM
a TIG-3 min, Orbiter ready to fire the LAM.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 06:19 PM
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 06:19 PM
Quote
The 440 N Liquid Engine has commenced its 23 minute long firing for Tran-Mars Injection.

This will impart an incremental velocity of 648 m/s consuming 198 kg of fuel.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:20 PM
Eyes is now just going along the old-pre burn trajectory. So that's that, until the DSN gets new trajectory.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/30/2013 06:20 PM
23 minutes of terror!!!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:24 PM
uhh.. they just deleted the post confirming ignition. The heck?


EDIT: It's back, and shows the original time of posting. Thanks for that Zuckerberg. :-/
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/30/2013 06:25 PM
Where did that post, about LAM, go?!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/30/2013 06:26 PM
I still see it?
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/30/2013 06:26 PM
Phew, that post came back up. Timestamp's still "6 minutes ago". May be a glitch in Facebook, or it was serving some old cached page :)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 06:28 PM
there are also live updates on the mission page http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 06:30 PM
Quote
10 minutes of firing completed. Performance normal so far. Liquid engine continues to fire as planned.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 06:32 PM
Quote
Just crossed the last perigee. Engine continues to fire as planned.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:39 PM
Whoa! I guess I was mistaken. "Eyes" is plotting an Earth escape trajectory. I just fast forwarded and checked.
EDIT: This may be the planned trajectory, as opposed to real-time telemetry.


Still very cool though :D


I'll get a grab of Mangalyaan at cut-off time shortly.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 06:40 PM
2 more minutes to go!

Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 06:42 PM
Quote
Tonight’s manoeuver has been completed, imparting the required incremental velocity of 648 m/s.

The orbit determination team will get us the orbit details soon.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 11/30/2013 06:44 PM
That all sounds very hopeful!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 06:48 PM
ISRO updates
Quote
Trans Mars Injection (TMI) operations completed successfully
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 06:49 PM
Quote
Liquid Engine propels MOM into Mars Transfer Trajectory and India into interplanetary space !
 
 Trans-Mars injection has been completed successfully.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 06:49 PM
The ISRO webpage (http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx) first updated to


> Trans Mars Injection (TMI) operations completed


And then changed to


> Trans Mars Injection (TMI) operations completed successfully.


:D


Here are the Eyes screenshots. I took the one from the south pole to show the altitude.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 11/30/2013 06:50 PM
Bon Voyage MOM!!!

Liquid Engine propels MOM into Mars Transfer Trajectory and India into interplanetary space !
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 06:52 PM
ISRO updates
Quote
Trans Mars Injection (TMI) operations completed successfully
Now replaced by
Quote
Trans Mars Injection (TMI) operations completed successfully. The liquid engine burn time was 1328.89 sec and the imparted incremental velocity was 647.96 m/sec.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 06:53 PM
Quote
The liquid engine burn time was 1328.89 sec and the imparted incremental velocity was 647.96 m/sec.

target was 648 m/s. and the burn was predicted to last 1351s
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/30/2013 06:55 PM
Quote
Liquid Engine propels MOM into Mars Transfer Trajectory and India into interplanetary space !

Trans-Mars injection has been completed successfully.

Relieved now! One of the longest 23 minutes I've experienced :) Congratulations to ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/30/2013 06:58 PM
Quote
The liquid engine burn time was 1328.89 sec and the imparted incremental velocity was 647.96 m/sec.

target was 648 m/s. and the burn was predicted to last 1351s

Looks like delta-v was achieved a bit sooner than they expected. If that's the case, then fuel consumption would be lesser than what they expected (198kg)?
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 07:08 PM
with today's burn India has already gone further than Russia had in the last 25 years...
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 11/30/2013 07:11 PM
Here's a snap from Eyes; MOM and MAVEN heading towards Mars.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 07:11 PM
Looks like delta-v was achieved a bit sooner than they expected. If that's the case, then fuel consumption would be lesser than what they expected (198kg)?


They definitely burnt less fuel than planned. But was the delta-v precise enough in terms of DIRECTION as well? Or will the fuel saved now have to simply be burnt later due to that directional imprecision? Won't know until they tell us. We know the engine operated on closed loop control (one of the interviews with the chairman linked earlier on this thread1), so it would've cut off as soon as it saw that it'd gotten the required delta-v.


1. Anyway, the orbiter should've been picked up by the DSN station in Canberra by now. I've seen those images of the antennae and the S/C they're talking to (see the MAVEN launch thread). Anyone know if DSN has a live page? I found only this: http://www.cdscc.nasa.gov/Pages/trackingtoday.html (http://www.cdscc.nasa.gov/Pages/trackingtoday.html)


2. Another space-history question for the buffs: How many escape burns/orbit insertion manoeuvres have been conducted during spacecraft night-time?


--------


1Confusingly, the latest Hindu article (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1126206#msg1126206) seemed to mention that the controllers could've stepped to begin contingency procedures in if something went awry. How? What are these procedures?
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 07:18 PM
http://www.cdscc.nasa.gov/Pages/trackingtoday.html (http://www.cdscc.nasa.gov/Pages/trackingtoday.html)


DSN Tracking schedule:

Quote
DSS-45 (34-metre)
November 2013
Sat 30    MOM
December 2013
Sun 1     MOM
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 11/30/2013 07:20 PM
2. Another space-history question for the buffs: How many escape burns/orbit insertion manoeuvres have been conducted during spacecraft night-time?

many Mars orbit injections have included periods in eclipse
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 07:29 PM
ISRO Press release

December 01, 2013       
Mars Orbiter Spacecraft Successfully placed in Mars Transfer Trajectory

The critical manoeuvre to place India's Mars Orbiter Spacecraft in the Mars Transfer Trajectory was successfully carried out in the early hours of today (Sunday, December 1, 2013). During this manoeuvre, which began at 00:49 today, the spacecraft's 440 Newton liquid engine was fired for about 22 minutes providing a velocity increment of 648 meters/second to the spacecraft. Following the completion of this manoeuvre, the Earth orbiting phase of the spacecraft ended. The spacecraft is now on a course to encounter Mars after a journey of about 10 months around the Sun.

It may be recalled that Mars Orbiter spacecraft was launched into an elliptical parking orbit with a perigee (nearest point to Earth) of 248 km and an apogee (farthest point to Earth) of 23,550 km by India's workhorse launch vehicle PSLV on November 5, 2013. Following this, the apogee height of the spacecraft's orbit was successively raised through a series of manoeuvres to nearly 1,93,000 km. Besides, health checks of the Mars Orbiter spacecraft as well as its payloads were performed. Since its launch, all systems on-board Mars Orbiter spacecraft are performing normally.

The spacecraft is being continuously monitored from the Spacecraft Control Centre at ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) in Bangalore with support from Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) antennae at Byalalu.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 11/30/2013 07:52 PM
"ISRO has planned four mid-course corrections in case of any deviation along [MOM's] path to the Martian orbit."
(source (http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-s-performs-trans-mars-injection-on-mom-113120100012_1.html))
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 11/30/2013 08:00 PM
"ISRO has planned four mid-course corrections in case of any deviation along [MOM's] path to the Martian orbit."
(source (http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-s-performs-trans-mars-injection-on-mom-113120100012_1.html))


They'll have to make interim burns anyway. Until I saw the Eyes visualisations, I hadn't realised that the TMIs for both MAVEN and Mangalyaan took them out of the orbital plane. (I wonder why that was done?)


So, do these 4 include planned burns? Seems to me you could always make adjustment burns at any point along the trajectory? (Obviously different dv costs)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 11/30/2013 08:38 PM
Congratulations to all at the ISRO on the successfully completion of this burn & now it's off to Mars. :)

News article covering this.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Isros-Mars-Orbiter-Mission-successfully-placed-in-Mars-transfer-trajectory/articleshow/26656881.cms

Congratulations from the Planetary Society.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/congratulations-due-to-india.html

BBC News article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25163113
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jabe on 11/30/2013 10:46 PM
quick question.. looking for the ISP of the rocket engine for the probe.  Anyone know details of it? Working backwards with the data given and I am guessing it is around 300s.  Anyone know for sure what it is?
jb
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: LouScheffer on 12/01/2013 03:02 AM
Wow, just passed over the terminator, and it's just struck me that the burn is happening during local night. Spacecraft running purely off battery power. #NowJittery.

It's not a coincidence.  Mars injections will always happen near local midnight, since that's when the orbital velocity of the probe adds directly to the velocity of the Earth around the Sun.  Furthermore, you want the burn to be close to the Earth for maximum energy gain.  So Mars injection from Earth orbit will always be in the dark.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 12/01/2013 03:38 AM
Those anxious moments

They have updated the image gallery with some pics of mission control snapped during TMI.

http://www.isro.org/mars/momimg.aspx
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2013 04:02 AM
quick question.. looking for the ISP of the rocket engine for the probe.  Anyone know details of it? Working backwards with the data given and I am guessing it is around 300s.  Anyone know for sure what it is?
jb

Correct. As per this paper extract (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1999ESASP.430..579S&db_key=AST&page_ind=1&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES) (though dated), ISRO LAM's Isp is 3041 Ns/kg. So, 3041/9.8 = 310s.

Complete paper here (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?db_key=AST&bibcode=1999ESASP.430..579S&letter=.&classic=YES&defaultprint=YES&whole_paper=YES&page=579&epage=579&send=Send+PDF&filetype=.pdf).
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 12/01/2013 09:11 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25163113

Quote
India's PSLV rocket - the second choice for the mission after a beefier launcher failed - was not powerful enough to send the MOM on a direct flight to Mars.

So engineers opted for a method of travel called a Hohmann Transfer Orbit to propel the spacecraft from Earth to Mars with the least amount of fuel possible.

OUCH!!!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jabe on 12/01/2013 10:57 AM
Correct. As per this paper extract (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1999ESASP.430..579S&db_key=AST&page_ind=1&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES) (though dated), ISRO LAM's Isp is 3041 Ns/kg. So, 3041/9.8 = 310s.

Complete paper here (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?db_key=AST&bibcode=1999ESASP.430..579S&letter=.&classic=YES&defaultprint=YES&whole_paper=YES&page=579&epage=579&send=Send+PDF&filetype=.pdf).
thanks for that find.
jb
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 12/01/2013 11:08 AM
Wow, just passed over the terminator, and it's just struck me that the burn is happening during local night. Spacecraft running purely off battery power. #NowJittery.

It's not a coincidence.  Mars injections will always happen near local midnight, since that's when the orbital velocity of the probe adds directly to the velocity of the Earth around the Sun.  Furthermore, you want the burn to be close to the Earth for maximum energy gain.  So Mars injection from Earth orbit will always be in the dark.

I get the orbital mechanics, especially after tussling with it so much in the last few days.

Having said that though, you don't NEED to have the velocity vectors of the Spacecraft align with that of the Earth, if you're not doing a Hohmann transfer. E.g. if the planetary alignments favour it, and you're going "in" first (perhaps wanting a Venusian gravity assist - maybe to reduce overall travel time del-v), then I can imagine doing the Earth departure burn somewhere around (but before) dawn - while still not diminishing the heliocentric velocity given to you by having launched from Earth. Actually, depending on how much you're going to gain in terms of a Venus assist, and the alignments, even a post dawn-pre-noon burn might work out.

In any case, I was originally referring to the numerous times when the engineering teams are willing to pay a delta-v price, and operate in a "more reliable" zone. So in this case, (still on a Hohmann transfer) maybe give up the benefits of the Oberth effect, and conduct the burn from a higher altitude, where there was still sunlight. That would've required a different argument of perigee for the initial launch orbit I guess.




OUCH!!!


??
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 12/01/2013 11:15 AM
OUCH!!!


??

BBC needs to check its orbital mechanics. everybody uses Hohmann transfer orbits to go to Mars, it's not just a clever option of ISRO to circumvent the limitations of the PSLV
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 12/01/2013 11:29 AM
OUCH!!!


??

BBC needs to check its orbital mechanics. everybody uses Hohmann transfer orbits to go to Mars, it's not just a clever option of ISRO to circumvent the limitations of the PSLV

lol, I thought as much.. but I didn't know why YOU were going "Ouch" :D I think Jonathan Amos might've been distracted at the time, or someone else wrote it for him :P
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 12/01/2013 11:38 AM
ISRO chief and Programme Director interviewed post TMI:

http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/preparedness-for-mars-mission-has-been-excellent-k-radhakrishnan-113120100194_1.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/isros-mars-orbiter-mission-completes-motherofall-manoeuvre/437106-11.html
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2013 01:59 PM
ISRO chief and Programme Director interviewed post TMI:

http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/preparedness-for-mars-mission-has-been-excellent-k-radhakrishnan-113120100194_1.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/isros-mars-orbiter-mission-completes-motherofall-manoeuvre/437106-11.html

Quote
Exactly one minute before the burn started, there was a thunderstorm there and we did not have the data from there when the engine was fired. But within five minutes they got it and we started getting the data in real time. So that is the five minutes gap.
That must've been scary :)

Quote
We have got the performance of the liquid engine and we got slightly, around 1.75%, more than what we assumed.
Any idea what does it mean? Is it similar to the over-performance that we sometimes see in launch vehicles?
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 12/01/2013 05:23 PM

@Business Standard, and CNN-IBN: If you're going to care about comparisons and historical records, atleast look them up first.


Quote
Considering that more than half the missions to Mars around the world have failed - and that no country has succeeded in its first mission - there is almost breathless waiting in the ISRO community.


ESA's Mars Express was their debut Mars Probe... (if this list is accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars) and is STILL operating, at 10+ years old.


Yeah, you can split hairs, and say ESA's not a "country", and that they used a Russian launcher etc. etc., but I'll remind you that we haven't managed to enter Mars orbit yet, and we've only achieved Earth escape, and a heliocentric orbit.


JAXA managed to do that with their first deep space mission to Halley's comet. Single country, own launcher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakigake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakigake)


Also.. Japan is definitely Asian. (So that makes us, at most, the second Asian country - even if you discount the erstwhile USSR to "leap into interplanetary space")


Quote
CNN-IBN: I believe there was some anxiety with no data being received at one ground station?
Dr Mylswamy Annadurai: This is at a South African ground station where because of a local thunderstorm, disruption happened. But that's also another testing moment to see how good the mission's autonomy worked. So without ground contact, it has done its function. Before going to Mars orbit where it is supposed to do its own manoeuvring without ground contact ... remember even there it takes 30- 40 minutes to carry out signals - it has already shown it has done its job perfectly. So that way, it's a blessing in disguise, we can tell you.
Looks like Mangalyaan is spin-stabilised :P All the orbit raising burns so far've been as autonomous as the TMI. The attitude control thrusters kicking in to augment the LAM on the 4th burn, was a trial by fire (literally) of the closed loop autonomy too - and an examination of whether the spacecraft can take care of anomalies. But none of the events so far have involved S/C transitioning to safe mode...unless they've exercised it specifically, with some remote HILS test.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 12/01/2013 07:10 PM
ISRO updates
Quote
Medium Gain Antenna of the Mars Orbiter Spacecraft is powered for long distance communication, subsequent to successful Trans Mars Injection (TMI) manoeuvre
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/02/2013 12:33 AM
Here's a nice animation of MOM and MAVEN, which I found on Facebook/Twitter, based on orbit data from NASA and ISRO:
http://sankara.net/mom.html

You can switch between geocentric and heliocentric phases.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 12/02/2013 05:27 AM
Mangalyaan becomes farthest object sent into space by India

Quote
According to sources, the spacecraft crossed the lunar orbit around 7.20 am IST and became the farthest Indian object from Earth, considering India's lunar mission Chandrayaan-1's aposelene of 200 km.

http://netindian.in/news/2013/12/02/00026916/mangalyaan-becomes-farthest-object-sent-space-india
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vineethgk on 12/02/2013 06:07 AM
I'm having a small math problem with the below report, dunno if this is a stupid noob question or if I missed something obvious..

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-spacecraft-cruising-towards-suncentric-orbit/article5410838.ece?homepage=true (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-spacecraft-cruising-towards-suncentric-orbit/article5410838.ece?homepage=true)

Quote
As it hurtles towards its planetary goalpost on a path of 680 million km, the Mars Orbiter will cover one million km each day, according to S.K. Shivakumar, Director of the ISRO Satellite Centre, which made the 1,330-kg satellite.

Assuming that the current escape velocity of the spacecraft as around 11 km/s, I do get the math of covering 1 million km a day. But with that speed, wouldn't we be covering only around 300+ million km in 300 days? How would we cover 680 million km within the same timeframe (unless the spacecraft receives an acceleration to attain nearly double the escape velocity, that is..). Do the planned mid-course corrections impart additional velocity to the spacecraft?  Or is there some figure or math that I got wrong here?

Thanks in advance..
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 12/02/2013 06:55 AM
Do the planned mid-course corrections impart additional velocity to the spacecraft?
Mid course corrections will only make tiny changes in velocity, a few meters per second most likely. They are only to fine tune the trajectory.
Quote
Or is there some figure or math that I got wrong here?
It's safe to assume numbers got garbled somewhere in the reporting, and there is probably little to be gained figuring out exactly where. It's possible the speaker was referring to different things, perhaps the distance traveled and the distance to Mars.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 12/02/2013 07:01 AM
Assuming that the current escape velocity of the spacecraft as around 11 km/s, I do get the math of covering 1 million km a day. But with that speed, wouldn't we be covering only around 300+ million km in 300 days? How would we cover 680 million km within the same timeframe (unless the spacecraft receives an acceleration to attain nearly double the escape velocity, that is..). Do the planned mid-course corrections impart additional velocity to the spacecraft?  Or is there some figure or math that I got wrong here?

11 km/s is the speed of the probe relative to Earth. that translates into more than 40 km/s relative to the Sun. then you have to consider that this speed is not constant at all along the elliptical orbit. it's not simple math anyway
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vineethgk on 12/02/2013 07:46 AM
Assuming that the current escape velocity of the spacecraft as around 11 km/s, I do get the math of covering 1 million km a day. But with that speed, wouldn't we be covering only around 300+ million km in 300 days? How would we cover 680 million km within the same timeframe (unless the spacecraft receives an acceleration to attain nearly double the escape velocity, that is..). Do the planned mid-course corrections impart additional velocity to the spacecraft?  Or is there some figure or math that I got wrong here?

11 km/s is the speed of the probe relative to Earth. that translates into more than 40 km/s relative to the Sun. then you have to consider that this speed is not constant at all along the elliptical orbit. it's not simple math anyway

Okay.. I get the general idea. There is a different frame of reference to consider while considering the distance and velocity, and I forgot that the orbital velocity would vary at different points of the orbit.

Thanks plutogno!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/02/2013 03:40 PM
Update from ISRO MOM mission page:
Quote
Spacecraft has travelled a distance of 536,000 km by 17:00 hrs (IST) of Dec 2, 2013. It has crossed the distance to Moon's orbit around Earth (mean distance 385,000 km) this morning.

edit: modified to "westernize" the distances in km
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/04/2013 12:22 AM
From http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx:
Quote
Spacecraft has traversed beyond the Sphere of Influence (SOI) of Earth extending about 925,000 km at around 1:14 hrs (IST) on Dec 4, 2013.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/04/2013 12:23 AM
In other news, how many MOM missions can you operate with the price of one Gareth Bale? The answer is 2. (http://www.strudel.org.uk/blog/astro/001036.shtml)  ;)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/04/2013 02:52 PM
An overview of Trajectory Correction Maneuvers (TCM) planned by ISRO for MOM. First one's on 11th Dec 2013.

Source: ISRO MOM Facebook page.
Title: Re: LIVE: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: akula2 on 12/06/2013 01:01 AM
It's interesting that the Indian language has short, simple words for such large numbers ("one hundred thousand" and "ten million" in English).
100,000 is 1,00,000 (lakh or some use lac)
1,000,000 (million) is 10,00,000 (just 10 lakh)
10,000,000 (10 million) is 1,00,00,000 (1 crore)
1,000,000,000 (billion) is 100,00,00,000 (100 crore) (highest unit in Hindi called: "Ek Arab")

Those are indeed wild ideas. Wild to the point of silly. The solar system is an enormous structure. Spacecraft are built for specific purposes. Flitting about is pointless and impractical, most likely impossible. Plus there were already discussions of slightly less-than-impossible ideas like aero-braking for extended missions.

As it stands our Indian colleagues are doing remarkable things incredibly fast on extremely lean budgets. These are stellar and thoroughly admirable accomplisments.
Many here aware how large Solar system is. There's nothing like wild ideas when it comes to few disciplines like Space or Engineering; Pioneer missions set themselves as 'living' examples. Or see the beauty of 'wildness' in RBSP with twin-spacecrafts. The same wildness was rewarded with a Nobel for chasing after God particle  :)

I'm sure (by experience) it's a matter of doing more missions with loads of dedicated funds, so MOM is rightly billed as a technology demonstrator  8)

So true, quite lean indeed. Many foreign employees shot questions on how India managed it etc.  Anyway, to the Prez Pranab, such budgets must be 'peanuts'  ;D (rejected aid, so British axed it. Thank god!). ISRO needs at least $3 billion allocation each year for 3-4 years to get that 'wild' drive on many levels. NASA allocated over $17 billion for this 2013, so they get to do many missions on various scales. ISRO's $850 million budget is severely constrained yet they're doing a good job. Very nice.

"We have not yet started any twitter feed. Please note that,
facebook.com/isromom is the only social media entity officially hosted by
ISRO."
That was expected - old habits die hard! I wrote to them 4 times with many inputs. ISRO should overhaul and use its website as the primary source (national brand) with loads of info/graphics/updates; FB/Twitter etc complementary or support tools. Example:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/rbsp/main/ (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/rbsp/main/)  (ongoing mission). 

Forgot to add, loved this FB photo:

(http://i43.tinypic.com/wgt8h3.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: chota on 12/06/2013 01:53 AM
^
"Ensure zero after filling"!!!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: akula2 on 12/07/2013 10:17 AM
Well, I take my words back regarding twitter stream!  :-X

Mars Orbiter Mission @Mangalyaan1  #Mangalyaan

India Space @India_inSpace

If anyone interested like me: MAVEN Mission @MAVEN2Mars
 



Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jcm on 12/10/2013 05:21 AM
Well, I take my words back regarding twitter stream!  :-X

Mars Orbiter Mission @Mangalyaan1  #Mangalyaan

India Space @India_inSpace

If anyone interested like me: MAVEN Mission @MAVEN2Mars
 





Yes, but @Mangalyaan1 is not an ISRO account as far as I can tell. Don't know about India in Space.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/10/2013 02:02 PM
I read in one of the comments by ISRO MOM Facebook page admin that MOM is approximately at a distance of 2,400,000 km from Earth and there's a 16 seconds delay in two-way communication.

And, here are few updates on TCM #1 that's tentatively scheduled at 6:30 AM IST Dec 11th 2013:
Quote
Controllers of its various systems met at tracking centre ISTRAC in the evening to take stock of its situation and plan the operation, called trajectory correction manoeuvre (TCM). Team ISRO calls it fine-tuning of its course.

This TCM is needed as the spacecraft slightly overachieved its parameter, which can happen during operations such as the crucial December 1 manoeuvre, said M. Annadurai, Programme Director of the Mars Orbiter Mission.

Monday’s meeting was to take stock, finalise the duration of firing the smaller thrusters — tentatively for about 40 seconds at 6.30 a.m. [IST] on December 11 — and the rest of the TCM-1 strategy.

This time, all eight small 22-Newton thrusters on the spacecraft would be used to minutely slow it down.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-craft-to-get-first-course-correction-tomorrow/article5441150.ece

Edit:
Here comes the official update from ISRO MOM Facebook page; refer attached image :)



Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/11/2013 01:48 AM
From ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission spacecraft started the 44 seconds long firing of its 22N thrusters, for the First Trajectory Correction Manoeuver.

Quote
First Trajectory Correction Manoeuver completed successfully.

And, from mission page http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx:
Quote
The first Trajectory Correction Manoeuvre (TCM) of Spacecraft was carried out successfully at 06:30 hrs (IST) by firing the 22 Newton Thrusters for a duration of 40.5 seconds. The spacecraft is travelling at a distance of about 29 lakh (2.9 million) km away from Earth.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 12/12/2013 04:25 AM
From the configuration of the RCS depicted in these pictures, and the fact that ALL 8 22N jets were fired for 40.5 seconds to give a translational delta-V correction...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405843782986895&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&permPage=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405843782986895&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&permPage=1)


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405969189641021&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&relevant_count=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405969189641021&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&relevant_count=1)

...tt seems that ANY attitude control manoeuvre with the thrusters would impart translational velocity to the spacecraft in the 'forward' direction (with respect to the LAM).


Do any other spacecraft have such a construction of their RCS jets?




Also, I'm interested in working out the required delta-v that would've allowed the LAM to be used instead of these thrusters - especially because firing 8 jets such that only one component of the reaction force from each jet contributes to the total force on the S/C with the other cancelled by an opposite jet ... is an inefficient ....propellant wise..


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405439613027312&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&comment_id=83418&offset=0&total_comments=76 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405439613027312&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&comment_id=83418&offset=0&total_comments=76)
So there's a curve, factoring in the transient time of the LAM startup (and other engineering constraints on the minimum fire time..), the delta-v required (variable), and the angle of cant of the RCS jets (constant).


I'm wondering.. if the shape of this curve wouldn't have offered a more fuel efficient TCM, wherein they allow the required correction to build to a level, and then use the LAM.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405718662999407&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&permPage=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1405718662999407&set=a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058&type=1&permPage=1)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: akula2 on 12/17/2013 06:32 AM
Yes, but @Mangalyaan1 is not an ISRO account as far as I can tell. Don't know about India in Space.
I'm not registered (only use them for corporate presence/support) on Twitter or FB, yet those twitter handles shed some info so it's kinda complementary to FB.

Something is better than nothing  :)
 
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/17/2013 02:17 PM
Yes, but @Mangalyaan1 is not an ISRO account as far as I can tell. Don't know about India in Space.
I'm not registered (only use them for corporate presence/support) on Twitter or FB, yet those twitter handles shed some info so it's kinda complementary to FB.

Something is better than nothing  :)

ISRO issued a press release about their official and various unofficial social media outlets:
http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Dec16_2013

As of now, ISRO MOM Facebook page is the only official page. Looks like they will be coming up with official social media presence for ISRO as a whole, as well:
https://www.facebook.com/isromom/posts/1407695689468371
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: akula2 on 12/18/2013 02:33 AM
@their official and various unofficial social media outlets

That press release makes no sense because it goes against the spirit of sharing knowledge. Example, Curiosity mission.

Anyway, it's nothing usual because last year I faced some hiccups while conducting feasibility on private partnership (my 4th company will be based in India/USA/Russia). The 'Raj' attitude and Red tape at many organizations must be shred. I hope the current AAP winds blow over the Southern states.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 12/18/2013 03:01 AM
That press release makes no sense because it goes against the spirit of sharing knowledge. Example, Curiosity mission.
It's clear that a fair number of people were confused by those unofficial accounts. I saw BBC quote the Mangalyaan1 twitter as if it were an official source, for example.

Clarifying which accounts are actually controlled by ISRO does not go "against the spirit of sharing knowledge", it helps people evaluate the sources.

Fan accounts are great, but it's in everyone's interest to distinguish them from actual sources inside the mission. This situation only arose because some of the unofficial accounts were (whether intentionally or not) easily mistaken for an official account. NASA has also gone after fan accounts which they thought were easily confused with official ones.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/18/2013 12:35 PM
Few updates on ISRO MOM:
Quote
“The Mars orbiter was more than four million km away as of yesterday. The spacecraft is in good health,” he said on Tuesday from Bangalore. Every day, precision ranging of the spacecraft was being done to know where exactly it was and how far away it was. Ground controllers from the ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) in Bangalore, and the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at Byalalu, near Bangalore, were communicating with the spacecraft.

Since the Mars spacecraft had travelled more than four million km away, “there is a communication delay of 12 seconds” each way, Dr. Radhakrishnan said.

Quote
The orbiter “is in a parabolic trajectory around the sun towards Mars” said Deviprasad Karnik, ISRO spokesperson. The spacecraft had to be “seen” continuously, that is, it should be monitored all the time. So ground controllers from ISTRAC and IDSN were communicating with it.

As of now, the ground controllers at the IDSN were communicating with the spacecraft, using the dish-antenna with a diameter of 18 metres. From April 2014, they would use the 32-metre antenna to keep a tab on it, Mr. Karnik said.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-well-on-its-way/article5471052.ece
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jcm on 12/18/2013 11:29 PM
Few updates on ISRO MOM:
Quote
The orbiter “is in a parabolic trajectory around the sun towards Mars” said Deviprasad Karnik, ISRO spokesperson. The spacecraft had to be “seen” continuously, that is, it should be monitored all the time. So ground controllers from ISTRAC and IDSN were communicating with it.
 
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-well-on-its-way/article5471052.ece
I really hope it's in an elliptical trajectory, not a parabolic one
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/19/2013 12:40 AM
Few updates on ISRO MOM:
Quote
The orbiter “is in a parabolic trajectory around the sun towards Mars” said Deviprasad Karnik, ISRO spokesperson. The spacecraft had to be “seen” continuously, that is, it should be monitored all the time. So ground controllers from ISTRAC and IDSN were communicating with it.
 
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-well-on-its-way/article5471052.ece
I really hope it's in an elliptical trajectory, not a parabolic one


Yes, spacecraft is in an elliptical trajectory around Sun. Here's a snippet from mission website:
http://www.isro.org/mars/navigation.aspx
Quote
The last manoeuver, termed as Trans Mars Injection (TMI), moved the spacecraft in the Mars Transfer Trajectory (MTT). Spacecraft crosses Earth’s Sphere of Influence (SOI) and enters heliocentric elliptic cruise phase.

http://www.isro.org/mars/mission-profile.aspx
Quote
2.   Helio Centric Phase
The spacecraft leaves Earth in a direction tangential to Earth’s orbit and encounters Mars tangentially to its orbit. The flight path is roughly one half of an ellipse around sun. Eventually it will intersect the orbit of Mars at the exact moment when Mars is there too.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 12/19/2013 03:02 AM


1. Mars Orbiter, which is currently at a distance of 60 lakh kilometers from Earth, has so far burnt about 55 per cent (470 kg) of the 850 kilograms of fuel it is carrying.

2. ISRO did not overspent fuel,despite the glitch that it encountered during the fourth burn.

3. About 200 kg of fuel will be burnt in a matter of 28 minutes on September 24, 2014, during the Mars Orbit Injection phase. About 190 kgs of fuel was spent on Tran-Mars Injection phase on December 1.

4. Ceramic Servo Accelerometer (CSA) that measures the precise amount of velocity the satellite gains when the thrusters are burnt have "enabled in preserving the fuel on-board.

5.  MOM is currently travelling at a speed of 3.4 km/s through space. By the time it reaches Mars, it will attain a velocity of 34 km/s.

6.  ISRO currently communicating with MOM using the on-board medium gain antenna.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mars-orbiter-spent-55--of-the-total-fuel-so-far-isro-scientist/1209273/0 (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mars-orbiter-spent-55--of-the-total-fuel-so-far-isro-scientist/1209273/0)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 12/19/2013 08:42 AM

2. ISRO did not overspent fuel,despite the glitch that it encountered during the fourth burn.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mars-orbiter-spent-55--of-the-total-fuel-so-far-isro-scientist/1209273/0 (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mars-orbiter-spent-55--of-the-total-fuel-so-far-isro-scientist/1209273/0)


IANAE..but it seems to me that the glitch, and the splitting of one burn into two.... would've actually SAVED fuel. The Oberth effect. It's the same logic as to why they had multiple orbit raising manoeuvres, instead of one big burn in the first place.


Yes, a premature cut-off would've resulted in a different-from-planned argument of apogee/perigee - but given it wasn't the escape burn, and that they were still in Earth orbit, a change of burn time of the subsequent burn would've compensated.

I assume other engineering considerations would've led to them deciding on the nominal number of orbit-raising burns. (Engine re-starts, time spent in Earth orbit, thermal environment etc. etc., and of course, TMI window)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: chota on 12/19/2013 10:56 AM
Here is the offical isro facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/isroofficial

Official twitter page
https://twitter.com/isroofficial
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: akula2 on 12/19/2013 11:48 AM
It's clear that a fair number of people were confused by those unofficial accounts. I saw BBC quote the Mangalyaan1 twitter as if it were an official source, for example.

Clarifying which accounts are actually controlled by ISRO does not go "against the spirit of sharing knowledge", it helps people evaluate the sources.

Fan accounts are great, but it's in everyone's interest to distinguish them from actual sources inside the mission. This situation only arose because some of the unofficial accounts were (whether intentionally or not) easily mistaken for an official account. NASA has also gone after fan accounts which they thought were easily confused with official ones.
Perhaps it's true on few cases but largely there is no harm in having several complimentary handles which serve more articles, updates, information and pictures:

@MarsCuriosity @MSL_101 @MarsWxReport

Anyway, let's all pray MOM delivers a great mission with 100% success  :)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 12/19/2013 03:59 PM
Why PSLV was chosen over GSLV?

Quote
“Coasting phase – where spacecraft travels on the velocity of the earlier burn – is not possible in GSLV. It is allowed only in PSLV. The other thing is that we already have had success in Chandrayaan when transfer orbit was possible. PSLV also saves fuel,” he said.

“Argument of perigee required for Mars mission was 270 degree, point of entry and velocity required is also not possible with GSLV that would have given 170 degree. Therefore, PSLV was selected as the launch vehicle,” he added.

http://www.dnaindia.com/ahmedabad/report-55l-km-away-stars-guide-mom-towards-red-planet-as-kirankumar-1937681

Looks like the GSLV, in it's present configuration, isn't favourable for interplanetary missions.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 12/31/2013 06:57 AM
Here's an insightful interview with ISRO chairman:
http://forbesindia.com/article/the-big-questions-for-2014/what-questions-will-isros-mission-answer/36789/1

Some highlights:
Quote
Mangalyaan’s new fault detection and reconfiguration systems can do it on their own.
If problems come up in a near-earth spacecraft, we send it into ‘safe’ mode from our ground stations. But Mangalyaan can get into safe mode by itself, turning its antennae towards the earth, to receive commands, and its solar panels towards the sun, for energy.

Quote
A series of commands are stored in the craft’s tele-command processor which activate its five instruments or payloads. But in case we require a new sequence of operations, there’s scope for that as well.

Quote
We’ve taken instruments that were made in India; no instrument was left behind for want of space. Can these instruments be tweaked to get more or varied information, as ongoing missions, like Nasa’s Curiosity Rover, can? No, the capabilities are fixed. But what can certainly be tweaked is where they make observations and how many more of those they make.

Quote
The commercial market has shown confidence in PSLV, which can do versatile launches. We have a French and a German satellite launch commissioned on PSLV and three UK satellites of 350-kg each will be launched using this rocket.

Quote
I think such missions also inspire the younger generation. In 2006, Isro received 24,000 applications for 268 positions. In 2009, post Chandrayaan-1, we received 140,000 applications for 371 seats. In 2012, we received 120,000 applications for just 22 posts!
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 01/14/2014 02:24 AM
Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
Mission Update: MOM

As on today Mars Orbiter is almost 11.04 Million km away from planet Earth, a signal from ground control station is taking almost 36.8 seconds to reach MoM... Usain Bolt would have run 345 m in that much time...
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 02/04/2014 05:25 AM
ISROMOM Facebook update

Quote
Another 233 days for MOM to reach Mars. MOM is 14.4 million km away from earth and moving at a velocity of 31.3 km/s with respect to Sun. As of now; a signal traveling at the speed of light takes around 48 seconds to reach MOM.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 02/09/2014 03:33 AM
Mission Update: MOM

Quote
MOM is now about 15 million km away from Earth. It now takes almost 2 minutes for a communication signal to go to MOM and come back, about the same time mom takes to make noodles !
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 02/11/2014 03:35 PM
ISRO MOM completes 100 days in space:
http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Feb11_2014
Quote
Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, India's first interplanetary probe, was launched by PSLV-C25 at 1438 hours on November 5, 2013 from Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharikota. In its voyage towards Mars, the mission successfully completes 100 days in space tomorrow (February 12, 2014).

Spacecraft health:
Quote
The spacecraft health is normal. The spacecraft is continuously monitored by the ground station of ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC), located at Byalalu, near Bangalore. Except for a 40 minute break in the Telemetry data received from the spacecraft to the ground station, data has been continuously available for all the 100 days.

Payload health:
Quote
On February 6, 2014, all the five payloads on Mars Orbiter spacecraft were switched 'ON' to check their health.

Distance:
Quote
The health parameters of all the payloads are normal. Presently, the spacecraft is at a radio distance of 16 million km causing a one way communication delay of approximately 55 seconds. After travelling the remaining distance of about 490 million km over the next 210 days, the spacecraft would be inserted into the Martian Orbit on September 24, 2014.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 02/12/2014 08:05 AM
MARS COLOR CAMERA ONBOARD MARS ORBITER MISSION: SCIENTIFIC OBJECTIVES &
EARTH IMAGING RESULTS
http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2014/pdf/2449.pdf
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: sanman on 02/20/2014 03:20 AM
To Mars on a budget

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/business/international/from-india-proof-that-a-trip-to-mars-doesnt-have-to-break-the-bank.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: hop on 02/20/2014 04:53 AM
To Mars on a budget

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/business/international/from-india-proof-that-a-trip-to-mars-doesnt-have-to-break-the-bank.html?_r=0
Somewhat related, this article http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/pavan-srinath-running-the-space-marathon-113121500647_1.html suggests that the oft-quoted $75 million isn't the whole story.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Blackstar on 02/20/2014 03:40 PM
Somewhat related, this article http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/pavan-srinath-running-the-space-marathon-113121500647_1.html suggests that the oft-quoted $75 million isn't the whole story.

Thanks for that. It confirms what I have long suspected, which is that the $75 million number was bogus. It does not include salaries!

I believe that I read somewhere that the 18-month timeframe is also a lie, and that preliminary work on the mission started several years earlier.

ISRO has always had an incentive to lowball this project publicly. They want to avoid being criticized for spending money on a "frivolous" Mars mission when people are starving. So they get around that by saying that they didn't spend a lot of money, and they did it fast, and aren't they great? And then they bask in the glow from comparing it to the crazy expensive NASA MAVEN mission. They're heroes!

That's not to say that this is an expensive mission, but we should be pretty skeptical of these claims.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Blackstar on 02/20/2014 03:46 PM
To Mars on a budget

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/business/international/from-india-proof-that-a-trip-to-mars-doesnt-have-to-break-the-bank.html?_r=0

That article was written by a business reporter, and I take issue with a number of things it claims. For instance:

"ISRO has learned to make cost-effectiveness a daily mantra. Its inexpensive but reliable launch capabilities have become popular for the launches of small French, German and British satellites."

Not really. They've struggled with reliability.

Also, a comparison between the Indian mission and NASA's MAVEN mission is not really that appropriate. MAVEN has much more capable instruments (maybe that's what the reporter means by "heavyweight") and does different stuff.

I also think there's a big question of reliability. The reporter mentions India's Moon mission, but does not mention that it died early. He misses the fact that their rocket has been unreliable. And if this Mars mission dies on the way to Mars, will it really be a bargain? And why does he seem to imply that not conducting extensive testing of the vehicle before flight is a good thing? That's the part that would scare the heck out of any spacecraft engineer.

And I'll add one more thing: the reporter really misunderstood the criticism and the history of India's space program. The criticism has been focused on their space exploration programs like Moon and Mars. I don't think they have been criticized over their applications programs (comsats, weather satellites, remote sensing), that go back decades. The reporter is right to note that India's space program historically has helped out the country by providing communications, meteorology, crop forecasting, telemedicine, etc. No question about that. The domestic criticism is that they should not be doing anything besides those projects with social welfare objectives.

Several years ago I heard an Indian diplomat in DC explain that one reason they were expanding into Moon and Mars missions (and human spaceflight) is because they were having difficulty recruiting engineers. This is especially difficult when the country's computer software industry is expanding rapidly. Nobody wants to go to work building the seventh copy of a weather satellite. So they say "Come work for us and you can design a Mars spacecraft!" Then, after that is built, they work on the weather satellite.

Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 02/21/2014 04:53 AM
"ISRO has learned to make cost-effectiveness a daily mantra. Its inexpensive but reliable launch capabilities have become popular for the launches of small French, German and British satellites."

Not really. They've struggled with reliability.

Its a mixed bag. The GSLV has been unreliable (three failures and two partial failures out of 8 launches). The PSLV which launched MOM has been quite reliable. PSLV has had 21 successful consecutive launches since a partial failure in 1997 (one failure and one partial failure out of 25 launches). That is what I believe the reporter was referring to.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 03/02/2014 11:49 AM
Second trajectory correction may happen on 9th April:
Quote
“The second of the four trajectory correction manoeuvres will be made, probably on April 9, to make minor changes that may be required owing to the solar radiation pressure on the spacecraft,”

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Tiruchirapalli/health-parameters-of-mars-orbiter-are-normal/article5742711.ece
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Gaganaut on 03/08/2014 06:29 PM
Mars Orbiter Mission 200 days away from reaching destination

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed/science/200-days-for-mangalyaan-to-get-into-mars-orbit/article1-1192345.aspx (http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed/science/200-days-for-mangalyaan-to-get-into-mars-orbit/article1-1192345.aspx)

Quote
If everything goes as planned, MOM will get inserted into its Martian orbit, exactly 200 days from 7th March

Quote
A senior official of Isro told HT: The spacecraft  is  absolutely healthy, on track  and continuously being  monitored. We are getting data from the Spacecraft Control Centre at Isro Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network in Bangaluru beside the three ground stations of Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Madrid, Goldstone (California) and Canberra

Quote
Maintaining that the next challenge for the scientists would come on September 24, when the spacecraft will have to be energized  after a hibernation of 9 months, he said: “ The firing at that time will last for nearly 1500 seconds. The Mars Orbiter Insertion would be a major challenge for us but we have done a lot of ground simulation for that.”
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 04/05/2014 05:08 AM
Second trajectory correction manouvre (planned to be done on April 9th) will be skipped:
Quote
Updating on the status of Isro's Mars Mission, launched last November, Kiran Kumar said, "Right now MOM is 35 million km away. We are regularly checking the health of the satellite and it is satisfactory."

He also said the second of the four trajectory correction manouvre (TCM) planned on the Mars Mission was not necessary and the next TCM was being planned in June. The mission is expected to reach the Mars orbit by September 24.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Isro-sets-eyes-on-stars-plans-a-mini-Hubble/articleshow/33247231.cms
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 04/08/2014 02:10 PM
https://scontent-b-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/1888740_1440088799562393_794383626856246878_n.jpg
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 04/12/2014 10:13 AM
April 09, 2014 
 
Mars Orbiter Spacecraft Crosses Half Way Mark of its Journey 
 
Today (April 09, 2014) at 9:50 am IST, India's Mars Orbiter Spacecraft crossed the half-way mark of its journey to the Red Planet along the designated helio-centric trajectory.

 Mars Orbiter Spacecraft was launched onboard PSLV-C25 on November 05, 2013. On December 01, 2013, Trans Mars Injection manoeuvre was conducted successfully and the Spacecraft was set in its course towards Planet Mars through a helio-centric trajectory. Soon after the Spacecraft crossed the sphere of influence of Earth, a Trajectory Correction Manoeuvre (TCM) was performed successfully on December 11, 2013.

 ISRO has been continuously monitoring the Spacecraft using its Deep Space Network complemented by that of NASA-JPL. As the Spacecraft is on its designated trajectory, the TCM planned for April 2014 is not considered essential. If required, the next TCM is planned to be carried out in June 2014.

 Mars Orbiter Spacecraft and its five scientific instruments are in good health. Periodic tests are being done on the different levels of autonomy built into the Spacecraft for managing contingencies.

 At present, the radio distance between the Spacecraft and the Earth is 39 million km. A signal from the Earth to the Spacecraft and back to Earth takes 4 minutes and 15 seconds. Soon, the High Gain Antenna of the Spacecraft will be put in service for handling communications with the ground stations.

 The Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI) manoeuvre would be performed on September 24, 2014.
 
 
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 04/21/2014 04:07 PM


http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed/science/200-days-for-mangalyaan-to-get-into-mars-orbit/article1-1192345.aspx (http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed/science/200-days-for-mangalyaan-to-get-into-mars-orbit/article1-1192345.aspx)

Quote
If everything goes as planned, MOM will get inserted into its Martian orbit, exactly 200 days from 7th March

Quote
Maintaining that the next challenge for the scientists would come on September 24, when the spacecraft will have to be energized  after a hibernation of 9 months, he said: “ The firing at that time will last for nearly 1500 seconds. The Mars Orbiter Insertion would be a major challenge for us but we have done a lot of ground simulation for that.”

Quote from: Same article
Mangalyaan will be inserted into the Mars orbit after 200 days after which it will carry out scientific experiments, says Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO)


(emphasis mine)


Mars Orbiter Spacecraft and its five scientific instruments are in good health. Periodic tests are being done on the different levels of autonomy built into the Spacecraft for managing contingencies.


So, no cruise phase science?


There's also been only the one image of Earth so far.. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1399270930310847)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 04/21/2014 04:11 PM
There's also been only the one image of Earth so far.. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1399270930310847)


actually, abstracts of the LPSC contained a few other pics
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 04/21/2014 08:37 PM
actually, abstracts of the LPSC contained a few other pics

I'd skimmed through that paper, but thought that the second image was a blown up inset from the first, transformed for a different perspective. Mea culpa.

EDIT:
Paper (http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2014/pdf/2449.pdf)

But anyway, including that, there're only 2 images, and not even one of a full blue marble. Chandrayaan images were black and white.

They are missing have missed (on this mission atleast?) an outreach opportunity here. A picture of the Earth-moon system would've been awesome too.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Svetoslav on 05/15/2014 07:23 AM
Latest update (from Monday this week):

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mangalyaan-doing-well-will-reach-martian-orbit-on-september-24-isro-chairman-523085

Mars Orbiter is doing well, and a signal travels for about 4 minutes to reach the spacecraft.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Prober on 05/20/2014 12:45 PM
Latest update (from Monday this week):

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mangalyaan-doing-well-will-reach-martian-orbit-on-september-24-isro-chairman-523085

Mars Orbiter is doing well, and a signal travels for about 4 minutes to reach the spacecraft.

"Mars mission is going well and will reach the orbit on September 24, 2014." This will make all in ISRO and also the people of the country proud "as it will be a major milestone for ISRO,"
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 06/02/2014 10:11 AM
Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation is likely to perform its next trajectory correction manoeuvre on its Mars Orbiter mission on June 11.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/4772163_Trajectory-correction-of-Mars-mission-.html
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 06/10/2014 03:30 AM
Update from ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
MOM Status Update

ISRO's Mars Orbiter spacecraft has traveled more than 460 million km distance in its 680 million km elliptical trajectory around Sun.
MOM is now at a distance of about 100 million km from planet Earth. The two way radio communication delay is approximately 11 minutes.


And, here's an update on trajectory correction manoeuvre scheduled at 4:30 PM IST, 11 June:
Quote
It will be 16 anxious seconds from 4.30 p.m. on Wednesday at the ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) Station, Bangalore, when ground controllers will correct the trajectory of India’s Mars Orbiter, speeding towards the Red Planet.

During the complex manoeuvre, the ground controllers will radio commands to the orbiter’s thrusters to fire for 15 or 16 seconds to correct its trajectory so that the spacecraft reaches the Martian orbit on the appointed day of September 24.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/mars-orbiters-trajectory-to-be-corrected/article6098712.ece
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 06/10/2014 02:10 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/1907347_1463599153878024_6480490724250026338_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 06/11/2014 10:10 AM
(https://www.facebook.com/isromom/photos/a.1384034005167873.1073741827.1384015488503058/1464172370487369/?type=1&relevant_count=1)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2014 11:25 AM
From ISRO MOM Facebook page:
Quote
A missive from MOM confirms TCM2-Firing completion. Team MOM is busy crunching numbers to determine the post-TCM2 trajectory.

Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2014 12:18 PM
Any word on trajectory post firing?
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2014 03:13 PM
Here's an update from ISRO official twitter page:
Quote
Mars Orbiter Mission’s second Trajectory Correction Manoeuver completed successfully.  Keep Cruising MOM !
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 06/11/2014 05:37 PM
How many more does it have to preform before reaching Mars?
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2014 06:02 PM
How many more does it have to preform before reaching Mars?

Two more trajectory corrections are planned (August and September), before Mars orbit insertion.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-gets-its-first-course-correction/article5446749.ece
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: Star One on 06/11/2014 07:05 PM

How many more does it have to preform before reaching Mars?

Two more trajectory corrections are planned (August and September), before Mars orbit insertion.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-gets-its-first-course-correction/article5446749.ece

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 06/16/2014 01:17 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10172863_1465054120399194_2213560657216055636_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: antriksh on 06/16/2014 01:17 PM
(https://scontent-a-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/l/t1.0-9/p526x395/10452343_1518270128396344_5690690240288938692_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: ss1_3 on 06/16/2014 05:54 PM
UHF Satcom reports Doppler from MOM:

http://pjm.uhf-satcom.com/twtr/mom_150614.jpg

Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
Post by: AJA on 06/18/2014 02:26 PM
Official ISRO update from the Mangalyaan mission webpage (http://www.isro.org/mars/updates.aspx)


Quote
Date: 12/06/2014
   
  • The second Trajectory Correction Manoeuvre (TCM-2) of India's Mars Orbiter Spacecraft was successfully performed on June 11, 2014 at 1630 hrs IST. TCM-2 was performed by firing the spacecraft’s 22 Newton thrusters for a duration of 16 seconds.
  • At present, the radio distance between the Spacecraft and the Earth is 102 million km. A radio signal from the Earth to the Spacecraft now takes about 340 seconds. The spacecraft so far has traveled a distance of 466 million km as part of its total Journey of 680 million km.
  • ISRO is continuously monitoring Mars Orbiter Spacecraft using Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN). The spacecraft and its five scientific instruments are in good health.

  • So, RCS was used, rather than the Liquid Apogee Motor. The delta-V was small (1.577 m/s) (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1212187#msg1212187), so I guess there's nothing to be read into it.

    Still, I think this will probably the longest period between LAM burns... when it does the orbital insertion. Unless an INSAT adjusted its orbit fairly drastically late in its life, or reboosted. Anyone aware of such an occurrence?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 06/20/2014 09:22 AM
    Still, I think this will probably the longest period between LAM burns... when it does the orbital insertion. Unless an INSAT adjusted its orbit fairly drastically late in its life, or reboosted. Anyone aware of such an occurrence?

    Even I'm curious to know about this. I couldn't find any instance of LAM restart after such a long gap. However, this article has some info about LAM qualification for MOM (requires free registration):
    http://www.frontline.in/cover-story/mission-to-mars/article5280848.ece

    Here are some interesting snippets:
    Quote
    The final Mars Orbit Injection (MOI) is achieved by a braking or de-boost manoeuvre of about 1.1 km (a negative Δv) at the periapsis (closest approach to Mars) of the hyperbolic MTT. This, in fact, is the largest incremental (albeit negative) velocity, which means the MOI will demand the longest retro firing of LAM and it will have to deliver after lying idle for 300 days. Together, with the incremental velocity of 1.5 km/s given up to trans-Mars injection, the magnitude of the cumulative incremental velocity required of LAM is thus 2.6 km/s. The spacecraft will enter the Martian orbit in September 2014.

    Quote
    The LAM that will be used in this mission, both for orbit raising and MOI, is the same 440 Newton thruster that is used in geostationary satellite launches by ISRO. The first operation of orbit raisings is limited to the first one week. But MOI is only after 300 plus days of MTT. Once the valves get wetted by the propellant, they can swell a little bit and the performance will come down. They may also begin to leak. So the strategy that has been adopted is to close this path after orbit raisings, isolate the engine by operating pyro valves and open additional flow lines and valves when restarting the engine 10 months later to take care of the problem. The engine has been tested for its performance for a given number of days after use.

    Quote
    “In Chandrayaan-1 the engine was qualified for 30 days. Now we are talking of 300 days,” pointed out Radhakrishnan. “The performance deterioration in propulsion efficiency, which means specific impulse, is about 2 per cent. So we know it a priori. When you finally want to calculate how much the engine should fire to impart a given retro boost to capture a Martian orbit, this information is important but not very crucial at the same time because it is done in the closed loop mode. It will be looking at the accelerometers and then adjusting automatically. Also, the trans-Martian injection being very complex, you may miss this capture. We have kept fuel for one more try,” he added
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: AJA on 06/20/2014 04:10 PM
    Not having pored over INSAT operational burns, I think the closest they've come so far is Chandrayaan. I went and checked the dates/durations of the LAM burns on that mission (Wikipedia).

    Starting on 23rd October 2008, the LAM was fired (for Earth orbit raising) a total of 5 times with intervening gaps of 2, 1, 3, and 6 days. The LOI burn followed (6th LAM burn) on 8th November 2008 (a gap of 4 days after the TLI burn). Subsequently, there were 4 burns to circularise tighten the orbit - on 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th of November. (Cumulative burn time of 4711s, prior to the 12th November burn)

    However, I'd forgotten that Chandrayaan raised its orbit on 19th May 2009 (because of the temperature problem) - from 100 km to 200 km. That would've been the 11th LAM burn. This puts the biggest gap between successive, successful LAM burns at ~188 days.

    Here's Mangalyan for comparison (Wikipedia).

    Starting on 6th November, there have been a total of 7 LAM burns thus far, including TMI - with the gaps between subsequent burns being 1, 1, 2 (incomplete 4th burn - because ISRO were doing some redundancy testing. Cumulative burn time prior to onset of incomplete burn: 1693.6s. Chandrayaan passed this mark with its 2nd burn itself.), 1, 4 and 15 days respectively. Cumulative burn time thus far = 3569.79s.

    The TMI was completed on 1st December 2013 (01:12 IST), and a nominal MOI is expected on 24th September 2014 (IST). That's a gap of ~297 days.

    So yeah, they'd need to beat the current record by 110 days (~160%).

    Having said that, even without the alternative flow lines, the hardware isn't EXACTLY identical. The engine may be, but the tanks are either larger, or more numerous - which imply either different fuel pressures after the same del-V, and different temperatures, OR more valves/flow pressure regulators. And obviously, the external environment (including other parts of the S/C other than the propulsion system) isn't the same.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: AJA on 07/06/2014 06:06 PM
    3/4ths of the way there. (https://www.facebook.com/isroofficial/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1523852327838124/)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: plutogno on 07/12/2014 09:49 AM
    75 days to orbit insertion
    http://www.livemint.com/Home-Page/Vn34bm0z2JiardxZHHaXAL/ISROs-Mars-orbiter-to-reach-the-red-planet-in-75-days.html
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 07/18/2014 03:08 AM
    India plans another Mars mission in 2017-20

    Quote
    follow-on" mission to the Red Planet between 2017 and 2020 having a lot of scientific content. the final decision will depend upon the success of the Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) orbit insertion on September 24, 2014

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-plans-another-Mars-mission-in-2017-20/articleshow/38565995.cms
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Star One on 07/18/2014 07:38 AM

    India plans another Mars mission in 2017-20

    Quote
    follow-on" mission to the Red Planet between 2017 and 2020 having a lot of scientific content. the final decision will depend upon the success of the Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) orbit insertion on September 24, 2014

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-plans-another-Mars-mission-in-2017-20/articleshow/38565995.cms

    Excellent news, you have to admire their ambition on this.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 07/22/2014 03:29 AM
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 08/01/2014 03:16 AM
    Third trajectory correction manoeuvre planned in August deemed not necessary.

    Quote
    ISRO on Thursday said, "The mission officials have just ruled out the need for a trajectory correction manoeuvre, originally planned for August. This means MOM needs only three out of four TCMs originally planned for the entire heliocentric journey."

    http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140801/nation-current-affairs/article/mission-mars-schedule
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 08/03/2014 05:17 AM
    http://www.financialexpress.com/news/in-final-lap-isros-mars-spacecraft-to-burn-240-kgsfuel-to-slowdown-enter-martian-orbit/1275814/0

    Quote
    "It is currently about 163 million kilometers away from Mars. It is travelling at a speed of 1.2 million kilometers per day. It is on schedule and on target. Originally we were planning to have a corrective manoeuvre on August 19. But in the current situation, we don't think it is necessary. So the next (trajectory) correction is scheduled for September 14 and on September 24, the orbiter is supposed to reach Mars and perform the manoeuvre to orbit the red planet,"

    Quote
    "We have 290 kilograms of fuel left, and we will require about 240 kilograms for the manoeuvre to enter the Mars orbit. The process will involve reducing the velocity of the spacecraft and allowing it to get captured by Mars' (gravity),"

    Quote
    he said adding that all the commands will be fed in to the spacecraft three days in advance (before the manoeuvre on September 24) and the manoeuvre is expected to happen using the autonomous features of the spacecraft at 7:30 am on September 24.



    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 08/06/2014 02:38 AM
    Quote
    After the spacecraft is captured in the Mars' orbit, we will encounter the Siding Spring comet that will engulf Mars in October

    Quote
    The MOM will be using the instruments onboard to observe the Siding Spring's passage and its effects on the Martian atmosphere which is much thinner that compared to Earth.

    ISRO's Mangalyaan to encounter Siding Spring comet in October (http://www.financialexpress.com/news/isros-mangalyaan-to-encounter-siding-spring-comet-in-october/1276655)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: ss1_3 on 08/08/2014 05:45 AM
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 08/20/2014 08:51 AM
    Will ISRO test fire the LAM ( for a short duration ) prior to the actual MOI burn to check out and calibrate the LAM?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 08/20/2014 04:56 PM
    Will ISRO test fire the LAM ( for a short duration ) prior to the actual MOI burn to check out and calibrate the LAM?

    These posts have some info on LAM firing after 300 days:
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1216254#msg1216254
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1216393#msg1216393

    But, am not sure if ISRO will be test firing LAM.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 08/21/2014 02:13 AM
    Will ISRO test fire the LAM ( for a short duration ) prior to the actual MOI burn to check out and calibrate the LAM?

    I guess not. The original plan was to use all the redundant lines for the fuel  during MOI, but a similar test in the earth orbit didnt work. Apparently, each line works individually but not in parallel. My guess, they will program it to open other line if one fails  to produce required deceleration during MOI. 

    BTW, MOI will happen behind mars (just like chandrayaan 1), so any guesses how long we will have to wait for a confirmation?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 08/21/2014 05:14 AM
    http://timesofindia.com/india/Mars-orbiter-mission-spacecraft-readies-to-hide-behind-Red-Planet/articleshow/40557929.cms

    Quote
    The spacecraft is travelling at a speed of 22km/second. The challenge before Isro would be to reduce this drastically to 1.6km/second, so that the rules of gravity around Mars are employable and the spacecraft is sucked into the desired orbit.

    To achieve this, the space agency must fire its LAM engine, which would have remained idle for 299 days by September 24. Not only will the engine have to be fired but it has to be done after changing the orientation completely.

    "Right now MOM is travelling in one direction, if we just fire the engine, it will only add to the velocity. So we will have to re-orient it to look the opposite direction and then fire the engine. What this does is it will push the spacecraft in the opposite direction and thereby reduce velocity," a senior scientist said.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 08/22/2014 04:00 PM
    Will ISRO test fire the LAM ( for a short duration ) prior to the actual MOI burn to check out and calibrate the LAM?

    I guess not. The original plan was to use all the redundant lines for the fuel  during MOI, but a similar test in the earth orbit didnt work. Apparently, each line works individually but not in parallel. My guess, they will program it to open other line if one fails  to produce required deceleration during MOI. 

    BTW, MOI will happen behind mars (just like chandrayaan 1), so any guesses how long we will have to wait for a confirmation?

    Maybe ( just guessing ) - if the LAM has issues in both the modes ( primary lines and redundant lines ) the MOI software could try to put the MOM in some kind of orbit around Mars using the attitude thrusters. This will buy time to try and fix the LAM issues.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 08/23/2014 02:02 PM
    Will ISRO test fire the LAM ( for a short duration ) prior to the actual MOI burn to check out and calibrate the LAM?

    I guess not. The original plan was to use all the redundant lines for the fuel  during MOI, but a similar test in the earth orbit didnt work. Apparently, each line works individually but not in parallel. My guess, they will program it to open other line if one fails  to produce required deceleration during MOI. 

    BTW, MOI will happen behind mars (just like chandrayaan 1), so any guesses how long we will have to wait for a confirmation?

    Maybe ( just guessing ) - if the LAM has issues in both the modes ( primary lines and redundant lines ) the MOI software could try to put the MOM in some kind of orbit around Mars using the attitude thrusters. This will buy time to try and fix the LAM issues.

    Actually that is what happened when the parallel mode failed during the test in earth orbit. Thrusters will come into action but my guess is that it wont be sufficient to reduce the velocity of the spacecraft to required 1.6 km/s to be captured by Mars gravity.

    BTW

    Quote
    "On Sept 24, the manoeuvring of the spacecraft will begin around 7.30 a.m. The spacecraft's speed will be reduced from the current speed so that the Mars Orbiter enters the Martian orbit. Whether the spacecraft has entered the Martian orbit or not will be known around 8.30 or 9 a.m."

    http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/mars-orbiter-to-enter-red-planet-s-orbit-sept-24-114082300454_1.html (http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/mars-orbiter-to-enter-red-planet-s-orbit-sept-24-114082300454_1.html)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: AJA on 08/30/2014 05:22 PM
    Will ISRO test fire the LAM ( for a short duration ) prior to the actual MOI burn to check out and calibrate the LAM?

    I guess not. The original plan was to use all the redundant lines for the fuel  during MOI, but a similar test in the earth orbit didnt work.

    Are we sure we know what it is EXACTLY that they tested?

    Here are some interesting snippets:
    Quote
    The final Mars Orbit Injection (MOI) is achieved by a braking or de-boost manoeuvre of about 1.1 km (sic: it should be 1.1 km/s) (a negative Δv) at the periapsis (closest approach to Mars) of the hyperbolic MTT. This, in fact, is the largest incremental (albeit negative) velocity, which means the MOI will demand the longest retro firing of LAM and it will have to deliver after lying idle for 300 days.

    Quote
    Once the valves get wetted by the propellant, they can swell a little bit and the performance will come down. They may also begin to leak. So the strategy that has been adopted is to close this path after orbit raisings, isolate the engine by operating pyro valves and open additional flow lines and valves when restarting the engine 10 months later to take care of the problem. The engine has been tested for its performance for a given number of days after use.


    ^So why would they test the second set of lines? The second set of lines are not so much redundant, as much as required. If they wet them with propellant - in Earth orbit itself - it'd destroy the entire point of having a second set in the first place. Also, if they used the pyro valves to isolate the first flow path... then they're now down to only one set of fuel lines. i.e. there's no redundancy.

    Plus, the fact that the MOI burn - though autonomous - is being executed as one big burn, rather than being split over the hyperbolic approach trajectory - makes me think that they don't want to close and open the valve repeatedly... and risk it getting jammed.

    Can someone (else) ask them on Facebook/Twitter?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 08/31/2014 04:30 PM
    As the s/c approaches Mars will it focus the camera and other instruments on the planet before MOI burn to (e/i)nsure some science return from the mission ?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/02/2014 01:57 AM
    As the s/c approaches Mars will it focus the camera and other instruments on the planet before MOI burn to (e/i)nsure some science return from the mission ?

    I read in media that ISRO is planning to take pictures after MOI maneuver completes.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/02/2014 10:12 AM
    As the s/c approaches Mars will it focus the camera and other instruments on the planet before MOI burn to (e/i)nsure some science return from the mission ?

    I read in media that ISRO is planning to take pictures after MOI maneuver completes.

    antariksh: do you have any pointers to the media reports? -Thanks
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/04/2014 03:21 AM
    Test-fire planned for MOM engine
    Quote
    "Since the engine has been idle for more than 300 days, we may have to test fire it," Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan told TOI.

    There is some uncertainty over a couple of valves and parts malfunctioning because of the corrosive fuel. After firing for the trans—Mars Injection, the primary fuel channel has been disabled to prevent leaks. The planned test—firing will be carried out using a secondary channel which will remain open for the actual firing on September 24 to remain in the Martian orbit. The test is not without handicaps. Since the spacecraft is moving at a speed of more than 22km per second, test—firing for a mere five seconds can take it away from the trajectory by more than 100km. This deviation will have to be factored in while carrying out the final orbit—capture manoeuvre around Mars.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City/Bangalore/Isro-prepares-to-testfire-orbiter-for-September-24-rendezvous-with-Mars/articleshow/41647855.cms
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/04/2014 03:34 AM
     Live telecast for the MOI

    Quote
    “We are going to have the MOI on the September 24 morning. The engine firing is planned to start at 7.18 a.m. and last 28 minutes,” ISRO Chairman K. Radhakrishnan told The Hindu.

    Quote
    The ultimate moment, according to Dr. Radhakrishnan, will be “when we get the message at 8.15 that morning that the orbiter has captured the Mars orbit. Theoretically, that fructifies the objective of this mission. But today, our job is to gear up for the orbit insertion.”

    The spacecraft enters the Martian range of influence on September 22. ‘The action’ starts two days later when it would be about 700 km from the planet. First, at 6.50 a.m., the spacecraft will be turned or re-oriented.

    The most crucial act is to fire the engines on it to slow the spacecraft from a velocity of 22 km a second to 1.5 km a second. ISRO plans to fire all nine ‘guns’ on board: the main ‘LAM’ or liquid engine and eight small thrusters.
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/isro-gearing-up-for-date-with-mars/article6376971.ece
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/04/2014 05:35 AM
    Quote
    The most crucial act is to fire the engines on it to slow the spacecraft from a velocity of 22 km a second to 1.5 km a second.

    That's a delta-V change of 20.5 km/s! Surely there's a mixup somewhere. Mars orbit insertion is more like 2.5 km/s delta-V.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/04/2014 07:32 AM
    Quote
    The most crucial act is to fire the engines on it to slow the spacecraft from a velocity of 22 km a second to 1.5 km a second.

    That's a delta-V change of 20.5 km/s! Surely there's a mixup somewhere. Mars orbit insertion is more like 2.5 km/s delta-V.

    Maybe they meant a delta-V of -1.5 km/s from 22 km/s, would this be enough deceleration for the longish elliptical orbit being planned?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: tolis on 09/04/2014 10:29 AM
    Quote
    The most crucial act is to fire the engines on it to slow the spacecraft from a velocity of 22 km a second to 1.5 km a second.

    That's a delta-V change of 20.5 km/s! Surely there's a mixup somewhere. Mars orbit insertion is more like 2.5 km/s delta-V.

    The most likely explanation (to me anyway) is that the stated 22 km/s is the speed relative to the Sun, not to Mars.

    Tolis.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/06/2014 02:42 AM
    LAM test-fire on Sept 22

    Quote
    On September 22, about 48 hours prior to its crucial orbit insertion, the Mars Orbiter Mission's (MOM) 440N liquid apogee motor (LAM) will be test-fired for five seconds.

     The engine's test-firing will result in the spacecraft deviating from its trajectory, which will be corrected later.

     Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan told TOI on Friday that should there be a problem with the motor, the space agency will resort to its 'Plan B' for the Mars orbit insertion. This backup plan involves firing of the eight 22 Newton thrusters for the insertion.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Isro-to-test-fire-MOM-engine-on-September-22/articleshow/41822030.cms?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: sdsds on 09/06/2014 03:50 AM
    I have trouble understanding a fundamental aspect of a Mars Orbit Insertion. Doesn't a spacecraft arriving on a Hohmann transfer ellipse really need a prograde (not retrograde) burn to match the heliocentric velocity of Mars? Isn't it at apohelion, and thus needing a "kick" to circularize its heliocentric trajectory?  :-\
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/06/2014 05:49 AM
    I have trouble understanding a fundamental aspect of a Mars Orbit Insertion. Doesn't a spacecraft arriving on a Hohmann transfer ellipse really need a prograde (not retrograde) burn to match the heliocentric velocity of Mars? Isn't it at apohelion, and thus needing a "kick" to circularize its heliocentric trajectory?  :-\

    The gravitational field of Mars accelerates the spacecraft which - relative to Mars - is in a hyperbolic orbit.   Therefore you need a retrograde burn to slow down and get captured as a martian satellite.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: sdsds on 09/06/2014 09:31 AM
    My calculations indicate MOM will have a Vinfinity with respect to Mars of 2.65 km/s. At the altitude of the intended orbit's periapsis, Vescape is 4.78 km/s. So MOM's Mars-relative velocity near periapsis before the burn will be sqrt(Vescape2 + Vinfinity2) or sqrt(4.78^2 + 2.65^2), or 5.47 km/s. The target orbit has a periapsis velocity of 4.67 km/s. MOM would need to slow down (with respect to Mars) by only 5.47 - 4.67 = 0.8 km/s, or 800 m/s.

    That seems way too easy! Perhaps I'm misinterpreting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_trajectory#Velocity ?

    (EDIT: Spaceflight 101 reports a "planned change in velocity of 1,100 meters per second" in the August 24 update.
    http://www.spaceflight101.com/mars-orbiter-mission-updates.html)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/08/2014 11:11 AM
    A good overview of MOM's science instruments from Aviation Week: http://awin.aviationweek.com/portals/awin/Interactives/AWST/mom/mom.html (http://awin.aviationweek.com/portals/awin/Interactives/AWST/mom/mom.html)

    BTW maybe the thread can have a better title like "Indian Mars Orbiter Mission - Launch and Mission updates"?  ;)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/08/2014 02:48 PM
    A good overview of MOM's science instruments from Aviation Week: http://awin.aviationweek.com/portals/awin/Interactives/AWST/mom/mom.html (http://awin.aviationweek.com/portals/awin/Interactives/AWST/mom/mom.html)

    BTW maybe the thread can have a better title like "Indian Mars Orbiter Mission - Launch and Mission updates"?  ;)

    Interestingly the camera slide says that it will be used to image the sattelites Phobos and Diemos.This is the first time I am seeing any mention of plans to study the sattelites. Hope they also have (revised) oppurtunistic plans for looking at the comet too.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/12/2014 01:30 PM
    http://business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/q-a-with-isro-chairman-114091200426_1.html

    Quote
    Can you take us through the chain of events scheduled from now to September 24? Also what is going to be the crucial challenge?

    On September 14th, we will be uploading the sequence of commands in the spacecraft with time tagging. It will be followed by test firing and then on the crucial day (September 24) at 8.15 a.m we will be able to say the Mission is successful.

    The crucial challenge will be restarting the 440N main liquid engine, the single main engine which has been sitting idle for 300 days, since the Trans-Martian Insertion Burn was performed. This is the longest interval between LAM firings ever - the engine is usually employed on Geostationary Satellites that use it over a period of days or weeks to achieve their planned orbit.

    On the ground we did testing of a similar liquid engine to see its restart characteristic, this was done well before the MOM launch. It was positive. In the recent days also again we have done ground testing and it was also successful.

    Quote
    Do you have plan B, if there is a problem in restarting the engine?

    Yes. Using the small eight 22 N thrusters for attitude control or orientation, which will not give you this original target though. It will be salvaging of the mission. But what we have tried to ensure before hand is to build in the necessary facilities for ensuring restart and also confirmation.

    At the time of MOI if you find it didn't restart, then we will loose that opportunity to operate the contingency, since it has to start early considering they are small thrusters and it takes longer duration.

    In Plan A it is 440N plus, with the eight thrusters, to be fired in the given duration. But if the main engine does not fire, then we have to do the entire job by the small thrusters but then you have to fire them for longer duration and if you have to get the correct ellipse around Mars, you have to start firing early. There must also be enough fuel for that purpose.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/13/2014 03:13 AM
    As the s/c approaches Mars will it focus the camera and other instruments on the planet before MOI burn to (e/i)nsure some science return from the mission ?

    I read in media that ISRO is planning to take pictures after MOI maneuver completes.

    antariksh: do you have any pointers to the media reports? -Thanks

    Quote
    Events to follow

    September 24: At 6.57 am, Final phase of operation will start. Reorientation of the spacecraft should commence and it has to stabilise.

    At 7.15 am: Liquid engine firing would start and in the nominal operation that should be for about 24 seconds. Then once the desired velocity is achieved, the computer will give the command to cut the firing based on the accelerometer, which is onboard the spacecraft.

    Signal will take 12.5 minutes to reach here. That means Isro will know only after 12.5 minutes what is happening at the space.

    At 8.15 am, Isro could confirm whether the operation is successful.

    Later on the day: Colour camera will also be operated on the same date.

    http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/isro-says-india-s-mars-orbiter-mission-is-on-target-114091200825_1.html
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/13/2014 04:09 AM
    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-spacecraft-to-be-ordered-into-orbit/article6405731.ece

    Quote
    K. Radhakrishnan, Chairman, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), said, “Commands will be loaded into the Mars spacecraft on Sunday for its insertion into the Martian orbit.” Since the spacecraft is on its course to Mars, there would be no trajectory correction manoeuvre of the spacecraft, originally scheduled on the same day. “We are doing a re-start of the 440 Newton engine for four seconds at 2 p.m. on September 22. We are doing that re-start to confirm [that the engine will erupt into life on September 24],” he said
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: AJA on 09/13/2014 06:39 AM
    Does anyone have a link to the pork-chop plots for the MOI burn, and/or the entire mission?

    I'm wondering if, instead of a quick test burn (which stops once they've confirmed that everything's flowing cleanly through the pipes):  what if they make a substantial burn now? Such that they knock off a substantial amount of the required delta-v? It might give them more cover later on (in case a restart on the 24th doesn't come through on time for whatever reason), for the final insertion burn... maybe even allowing them to insert with only the attitude thrusters..

    Of course, it may not be feasible... if any substantial burn now would lead to them missing Mars entirely... which is why I was asking for the plots.

    Also, all this uncertainty regarding restart, and MOI has me thinking: Since the ISRO chairman says

    Quote from: Business Standard Q&A piece
    This mission is essentially a technology mission. It is to demonstrate our ability to orbit a spacecraft around Mars and the five scientific instruments we have put in are secondary ones.

    ... why did they include something like a Mars Colour Camera, instead of an experimental ion engine (in addition to the LAM)? The scientific community already has a million images of Mars... taken from much closer than Mangalyaan's nominal peri-areion. They've got full-disk images too - and if AIUI, all this data is already in the public domain. Sure, more images always helps; but the tradeoff is having a system which enhances the chances of mission success, while validating a new indigenous implementation of an alternative propulsion technology.

    It'd have to be a really small engine (and fuel tank) to fit within the weight of a couple of the payload instruments on Mangalyaan... but maybe they could've used Xenon as the pressurant for the blow-down tanks of the LAM, and used the same Xenon reservoir as prop for a test ion engine. Smaller size would've been offset by continuous thrusting.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/13/2014 08:15 AM
    A good overview of MOM's science instruments from Aviation Week: http://awin.aviationweek.com/portals/awin/Interactives/AWST/mom/mom.html (http://awin.aviationweek.com/portals/awin/Interactives/AWST/mom/mom.html)

    BTW maybe the thread can have a better title like "Indian Mars Orbiter Mission - Launch and Mission updates"?  ;)

    Interestingly the camera slide says that it will be used to image the sattelites Phobos and Diemos.This is the first time I am seeing any mention of plans to study the sattelites. Hope they also have (revised) oppurtunistic plans for looking at the comet too.

    MCC probing Martian satellites was mentioned in earlier reports as well:
    http://www.isro.org/mars/payload.aspx
    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-not-engaged-in-space-race-with-china/article5278134.ece (Oct 2013)
    Quote
    The tri-colour MCC gives images and information about the surface features and composition of Martian surface. They are useful to monitor the dynamic events and weather of Mars. MCC will also be used for probing the two satellites of Mars — Phobos and Deimos, ISRO officials said
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/13/2014 08:34 AM
    Does anyone have a link to the pork-chop plots for the MOI burn, and/or the entire mission?

    These links might help:
    http://sankara.net/mom.html
    http://www.isro.org/mars/mission-profile.aspx
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Mader Levap on 09/13/2014 10:36 AM
    ... why did they include something like a Mars Colour Camera, instead of an experimental ion engine (in addition to the LAM)?
    Tech demonstration mission has to demonstrate they can use, power and operate scientific instruments successfully, get data and process them.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: AJA on 09/13/2014 01:35 PM
    Tech demonstration mission has to demonstrate they can use, power and operate scientific instruments successfully, get data and process them.

    They've already demonstrated a lot of that in the numerous Earth observation missions they've undertaken.

    The raison d'être of this mission is to make an Indian platform seem as a viable option for the planetary sciences payloads of other agencies (a la NASA's M3 on Chandrayaan); and have this serve as a source of revenue. (Revenue doesn't have to be, and given NASA's operating regulations - will NOT be monetary compensation - but reciprocal rights to use assets of partners, without it costing ISRO).

    Given this, "all" they need to do is to demonstrate they can get a platform to Mars, operate it around Mars, and characterise the operational environment within the spacecraft; before furnishing this information to their prospective payload instrument customers. The onus to make sure the instruments themselves can operate within those parameters is then left to the customer.

    In that sense, an experimental ion engine (they do have one in the works IIRC) would be as good, if not a better (as I said in my previous comment) 'payload'. Plus, I wasn't suggesting removal of ALL scientific payloads, simply the ones that are going to gather similar data to what's already been gathered. (Even MAVEN isn't carrying a camera as such... if you exclude the IUVS)

    These links might help

    Thanks, but they don't have numbers on delta-v required for MOI, and how that delta-v changes over time. Oh well, back to googling for me :)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/13/2014 02:02 PM
    ...an experimental ion engine (they do have one in the works IIRC)...
    ISRO had used ion thrusters in GSAT-4 in 2010 (but satellite didn't make it to orbit due to LV issues):
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33770.0
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/13/2014 04:39 PM
    ... why did they include something like a Mars Colour Camera, instead of an experimental ion engine (in addition to the LAM)? The scientific community already has a million images of Mars... taken from much closer than Mangalyaan's nominal peri-areion. They've got full-disk images too - and if AIUI, all this data is already in the public domain. Sure, more images always helps; but the tradeoff is having a system which enhances the chances of mission success, while validating a new indigenous implementation of an alternative propulsion technology.

    I see your point of increasing chances of the mission's success by sacrificing one or more of the payloads and instead bundling an alternate (albeit untested) propulsion unit. But I wonder whether the MCC should be the one that needs to be axed for it.

    ISRO officially says that snaps from the Mars Color Camera would provide the context for other scientific payloads. But for me personally, a much greater justification for having a Color Camera onboard MOM (which weighs lowest among its 5 instruments at 1.27 kg) is that this mission needs to be seen not just as a technology demonstrator or as an advertisement of ISRO's capabilities in the global arena, but as a domestic PR effort as well. Images are something that a common man can relate to more easily, as against heady stuff like Methane measurement, Lyman-alpha emissions etc that appeal only to the core scientific community. Imagine an average Indian reading the newspaper on Sep 25 and seeing the leading news as something like "Indian spacecraft enters Mars orbit, starts sending scientific data" accompanied by only a few graphical plots to illustrate. Chances are, that he may not understand what the ruckus is all about and would just gloss over it. But imagine if the report was titled "Indian spacecraft enters Mars orbit, sends spectacular images of the planet" bundled with a half page color snap of Mars taken by the orbiter. It may not mean much to the wider scientific community, but wouldn't the impact on an average reader in India be more pronounced (to put it mildly)? Spacecrafts from other countries may have taken a lot of better photos of the planet, but what feels more special to us than a snap taken by a spacecraft built and launched by our effort?  :)

    On a more general note, an effective domestic PR effort from ISRO, in ways that more number of people on the street can relate to, would have multiple benefits. First, it would build more domestic support for ISRO  enabling the government to allocate more funds to them without fear of getting bashed by the public. Second, it would drive more talented youth to strive to take up career with such organizations here, or maybe embark on a career in the core sciences boldly. Third, on a longer term, it would also drive up the scientific temperament of the population, something the country badly needs.

    I often speak passionately about the Mars mission to my colleagues in the IT firm where I work, trying to explain to them in the best of my knowledge the enormous complexities involved in merely launching something to a precise orbit, let alone managing an interplanetary space flight. But they still seem to think it is no big deal (as if it is only as difficult as building a crappy web application), and many even say their taxpayer money are getting wasted on some 'overhyped skyrockets' !! Alas, I wish they knew better!  :(
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: hop on 09/13/2014 07:57 PM
    In that sense, an experimental ion engine (they do have one in the works IIRC) would be as good, if not a better (as I said in my previous comment) 'payload'.
    MOM was built on an very compressed timeline for a planetary mission. Adding experimental technologies is not usually a good idea in this situation. If they get into orbit and return some data it will be tremendous success.

    It's not really clear an ion engine would benefit the mission either. MOM has relatively little power available and no mass margin to add more.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Mader Levap on 09/13/2014 09:45 PM
    Tech demonstration mission has to demonstrate they can use, power and operate scientific instruments successfully, get data and process them.
    They've already demonstrated a lot of that in the numerous Earth observation missions they've undertaken.
    Not really. Data gathering and transmission from another planet is sufficiently different.

    In that sense, an experimental ion engine (they do have one in the works IIRC) would be as good, if not a better (as I said in my previous comment) 'payload'.
    Not realistic. In fact, trying to force newest and untested techologies into mission not specifically dedicated to test them is good way to fail project. So this is really bad idea.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: sdsds on 09/13/2014 10:28 PM
    In comparing Mars Orbit Insertion maneuvers, it looks like MOM and Maven are taking slightly different approaches. AIUI, Maven will be capturing into an orbit with a 590 km periapsis; MOM into an orbit with a 365 km periapsis. Each needs to get well below escape speed for that altitude: for Maven that's 4640 m/s; for MOM it is 4780 m/s.

    So the task for MOM looks easier. I wonder why didn't Maven choose to insert into a capture orbit with a lower periapsis, or put differently what enables MOM to do so when Maven (apparently) can't? I'm speculating it's because the MOM engine is higher thrust and can thus impart the needed impulse quickly enough, whereas Maven's monoprop thruster couldn't. Or is there another reason?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/15/2014 02:00 PM
    Superb press kit on sequence of events so far, MOI plan, LAM propulsion system:
    http://www.isro.org/mars/pdf/press%20briefing%20on%20MOI.pdf

    Simulation video:
    http://www.isro.org/mars/moi-video.aspx
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/15/2014 02:01 PM
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/15/2014 02:13 PM
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/15/2014 02:24 PM
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/16/2014 01:36 AM
    Quote
    1) ISRO engineers will start the final orbit insertion operation at 4.17 am on September 24 morning when the Mars Orbiter will switch to the Medium Gain Antenna for communications.

    2) At 6.56 am, the Orbiter will be rotated in a forward direction.

    3) At 7.12, a solar eclipse starts and two minutes later the thrusters will be used to get the Orbiter aimed in the right attitude.

    4) At 7.17 am, the liquid engine burn will start and it will go on for 1454 seconds burning 249.5 kg of propellant to decelerate the spacecraft by 1098.7 Meters/second.

    5) Around the same time, telemetry machines would be switched off as the Orbiter will lose communications with ground control being on the other side of the planet.

    6) News of the confirmation that burn has started will reach ground control only after 12.5 minutes at 7.30 am.

    7) The communication gap will end at 7.45 am and telemetry and doppler tracking will resume at 7.47 if all goes according to plan.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/16/2014 06:54 AM
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/16/2014 07:28 AM
    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/indias-mars-mission-to-enter-mars-orbit-on-september-24/article6413143.ece?homepage=true (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/indias-mars-mission-to-enter-mars-orbit-on-september-24/article6413143.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    In the run-up to the D-day, the mission scientists will do course (trajectory) correction on September 22.
    “The course correction has been postponed to September 22 from Sunday (September 14) to conserve the precious liquid fuel weighing (852 kg) and ensure the orbital insertion takes place when the spacecraft is closer to Mars for smooth transition from the sun’s orbit,” Mr. Rao said.

    Quote
    “The liquid apogee motor (LAM) or fuel engine at the bottom of the spacecraft will be fired on September 22 for four seconds to enter the Martian sphere of influence and the course correction will consume about 500gm of fuel,” Mr. Rao said.

    Quote
    The speed of the spacecraft will also be reduced to 2.14 metre per second from 22.2 km per second for enabling smooth transition into the Martian orbit from the sun’s orbit Sep 24.
      Must be a typo - maybe they meant the 2.14 m/s delta-v?

     
    Quote
    At 6.56 a.m., the spacecraft will be rotated towards Mars and five minutes later when sunlight is not falling on the Martian surface causing eclipse, the thrusters beneath the engine will give the Orbiter altitude control.

    “The liquid engine will start firing at 7.17 a.m. and at 7.21 a.m., Mars occult begins. A minute later at 7.22 a.m., telemetry (radio signals) will be off or out of receiving radars on the earth,” Mr. Rao pointed out.

    Scientists at the space agency’s deep space network at Byalalu, about 40 km from Bangalore, NASA’s Earth station at Goldstone on the U.S. west coast, the ESA’s Earth station at Madrid will confirm the insertion into the Martian orbit 24 minutes later at 7.54 a.m.

    Quote
    The spacecraft, with five scientific instruments, will be placed in an elliptical orbit, with the nearest distance from the Martian surface being 423 km and the furthest 80,000 km, to rotate around it in a duration equivalent to 3.2 earth days.

    Has the periapsis been increased from the original plan of around 300km? Or maybe this the initial periapsis at injection which will be reduced in a subsequent burn?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/16/2014 07:31 AM
    According to the press briefing, the delta-V is 1098.7 m/s.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/16/2014 08:53 AM
    According to the press briefing, the delta-V is 1098.7 m/s.

    Yes, and the predicted delta-v for the 4 second test firing on 22nd is mentioned as 2.142 m/s.

    Are there any optimistic guesses that can be made now as to what the achievable orbit could be if the LAM test were to fail and only the eight 22N thrusters are available for firing on 24th (which ISRO mentions as Plan B)?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/16/2014 09:51 AM
    As per the propulsion diagram ( Page:8 ) in the press briefing document, both the LAM and the attitude thrusters use the same propellant and oxidizer.

    How come there is so much concern about the restarting and operation performance of LAM, but no apparent concerns on the thrusters operation?
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/16/2014 12:29 PM
    As per the propulsion diagram ( Page:8 ) in the press briefing document, both the LAM and the attitude thrusters use the same propellant and oxidizer.

    How come there is so much concern about the restarting and operation performance of LAM, but no apparent concerns on the thrusters operation?

    Maybe the greater amount of propellant flow and longer duration of thrust in the Main engine increases chances of clogging and corrosion in its fuel lines and valves compared to the smaller thrusters? Or some difference in construction between the two? Maybe someone knowledgeable on these things can shed light on it.

    Apologies if this has been shared before, but I found a link with details of the 440N and 22N thrusters used in ISRO satellites.

    http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1999ESASP.430..579S/0000579.000.html (http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1999ESASP.430..579S/0000579.000.html)


    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: hop on 09/16/2014 05:05 PM
    How come there is so much concern about the restarting and operation performance of LAM, but no apparent concerns on the thrusters operation?
    My guess: The smaller thrusters are designed to operate for many years, and have done so on previous missions. They have also been used for the TCMs during the flight. The LAM was originally designed for a few firings immediately after launch, and doesn't have the same kind of record for long term use.

    That said, the fact ISRO decided to do a test firing so late in the process might indicate some more specific concerns were identified post launch. If it were a NASA mission, I would expect a test like this to be planned out before launch, unless it was driven by issues identified later. That logic might not apply to MOM though, given that it's ISRO's first deep space mission and was developed on such a tight schedule.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 09/17/2014 02:54 PM
    How come there is so much concern about the restarting and operation performance of LAM, but no apparent concerns on the thrusters operation?
    My guess: The smaller thrusters are designed to operate for many years, and have done so on previous missions. They have also been used for the TCMs during the flight. The LAM was originally designed for a few firings immediately after launch, and doesn't have the same kind of record for long term use.

    That said, the fact ISRO decided to do a test firing so late in the process might indicate some more specific concerns were identified post launch. If it were a NASA mission, I would expect a test like this to be planned out before launch, unless it was driven by issues identified later. That logic might not apply to MOM though, given that it's ISRO's first deep space mission and was developed on such a tight schedule.

    I think it's more of them needing a TCM anyway (remember that a planned TCM was deemed unnecessary a few months ago) and deciding to use it as a test firing of LAM. The delta V requirement of this TCM is low enough to be easily accomplished by the thrusters but high enough to fire the LAM for a few seconds and make sure all the fuel lines are open. It is too late for them to plan and execute a contingency in case of LAM failure, MOI cannot be achieved by the thrusters alone.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: sanman on 09/17/2014 09:16 PM
    Indian PM interested in witnessing Mars Orbital Insertion:

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/Modi-Keen-on-Witnessing-Mars-Moment/2014/09/17/article2434963.ece

    Quote

    BANGALORE: Prime Minister Narendra Modi has expressed interest in witnessing the entry of  Mars Orbiter Mission into the red planet around 7.30 am on September 24.

    Modi would arrive in Karnataka on September 23 on his maiden visit, after taking over the country’s top job.

    The Prime Minister is likely to visit ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) near Peenya here to witness the historic event and congratulate the ISRO team. The BJP state leadership has planned a grand reception for Modi on his arrival at the HAL airport in the evening.  Former Deputy Chief Minister R Ashok and others inspected the airport on Tuesday to select a suitable spot for erecting a shamiana for the purpose.

    BJP state president Prahlad Joshi, Union Minister H N Ananth Kumar and others would felicitate Modi, Subbanna of the BJP Bangalore city unit told Express.

    Modi would stay at Raj Bhavan for the night and leave for Tumkur the next morning. He is keen on visiting ISTRAC before leaving for Tumkur.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Mader Levap on 09/17/2014 10:41 PM
    No pressure, sir, noooo at all...
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/18/2014 01:42 AM
    NASA, ISRO may jointly launch Mars probes for Space exploration

    Quote
    With the NASA aiming to set up an office in Bengaluru, details of this collaboration would be finalized during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to the United States later this month. The joint effort could help identify factors that played a role in changing the Martian climate over the years as both MAVEN (Mars Atmospheric and Volatile Evolution) of NASA, scheduled to enter its orbit on September 22, and the Indian orbiter to Mars (D-day being September 24) have instruments to study the atmosphere of the Red Planet, sources said.

    One possibility would be MAVEN and the Mars orbiter circling the Red Planet together, just as Nasa’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) spun around the Moon along with Chandrayaan-I while scouting for water ice on lunar surface days before the Indian probe was lost in outer space. These probes would complement details picked up from the Martian surface by “Curiosity” which has been exploring the Red Planet since August 2012. They would also record the effect of comet Siding Spring on Mars in October 2014. 

    Sources said the two organisations would also explore the possibility of collaborating to launch probes to Mars in 2016, 2018 or 2020 when the Red Planet would be closer to Earth.
    NASA’s ground stations have tracked the Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) soon after its launch and would continue to monitor it during the crucial operations on September 22 and 24. Ending years of distrust and denial of technology, NASA had recently agreed to collaborate with ISRO for manufacturing an all-weather satellite to support disaster management and understand climate change.


    http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140918/nation-current-affairs/article/nasa-isro-may-jointly-launch-mars-probes-space-exploration
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: hop on 09/18/2014 03:21 AM
    I think it's more of them needing a TCM anyway (remember that a planned TCM was deemed unnecessary a few months ago) and deciding to use it as a test firing of LAM.
    This is possible, but the first reports of the test make it sound like an additional TCM would be needed to clean up the effects: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1251519#msg1251519

    TCMs are often done with smaller thrusters because they are more precise.
    Quote
    It is too late for them to plan and execute a contingency in case of LAM failure, MOI cannot be achieved by the thrusters alone.
    If this were true, why test the LAM at all? The extra firing would just add more risk.

    In any case, they do have a plan for MOI with the smaller thrusters alone: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2014/0916-laxman-mars-orbiter-mission-prepares.html
    Quote
    Koteswara Rao said that if the liquid apogee motor fails, Plan B will be implemented: using only the spacecraft’s eight 22-Newton thrusters. He acknowledged that this will definitely not be a satisfactory scenario because it will result in the consumption of all the spacecraft’s fuel. What is worse, the orbit will not be a good one for science.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/18/2014 03:34 AM
    Indian PM interested in witnessing Mars Orbital Insertion:

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/Modi-Keen-on-Witnessing-Mars-Moment/2014/09/17/article2434963.ece


    Bad bad idea IMHO.. If the ISRO guys are already under a lot of stress, the last thing they would want is another Top Brass looking over their shoulders. And add to it the additional job for the ISRO leadership now to make arrangements for his visit. I hope the PM instead visit them after the MOI event, as a visit during the event would serve only as a distraction and not an inspiration. And there may not be much to witness anyway.. Until they activate the camera, all you would have on the screen would be some diagrams, measurements and such stuff, and a bunch of people huddled in front of monitors.. ;)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/18/2014 05:14 AM
    Mars & Beyond - Eureka with ISRO Chairman K Radhakrishnan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALPKTEitvrg&list=PLVOgwA_DiGzqMeD9X9LnC9SINtosOgE5W
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/18/2014 06:00 AM
    An article on ET regarding the PR aspect ISRO is aiming for with the Mars mission to attract more young talent

    Quote
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/science/how-mangalyaan-is-helping-isro-attract-more-and-better-talent/articleshow/42749182.cms
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/18/2014 08:16 AM
    ISRO OFFICIAL FB

    (https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s552x414/10620573_1554149384808418_8554491756511265866_n.jpg?oh=50dc5a246a53819ef09a697166270f11&oe=548C33CD)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Dalhousie on 09/18/2014 11:07 AM
    ... why did they include something like a Mars Colour Camera, instead of an experimental ion engine (in addition to the LAM)?
    Tech demonstration mission has to demonstrate they can use, power and operate scientific instruments successfully, get data and process them.

    Two more reasons.  1) The public won't be interested if there are no pictures.  The scientific value might be small, but the impact will be very large.

    2) Ion engines are experimental, India has never flown one (there was one attempt in 2010, but the launch failed).  To include such a high risk element in an already high risk mission would be unwise. 

    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/19/2014 01:05 PM
    Quote
    MOM approached Mars parallel to  equator unlike MAVEN which approached over North pole.  The reason for these two approaches is that the final orbits of MAVEN and MOM are inclined @ 75 deg and @ 19 deg respectively. This is evident from the ' cross roads ' seen between MOM and MAVEN release in the combination diagram shown below.

    (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GbvJqxHFrUI/VBucGHcOGmI/AAAAAAAABAU/qMcmQR-BSG0/s1600/MAVEN%2BMOM%2Binsertion.jpg)

    Nice read (http://indiaspaceactivity.blogspot.sg/2014/09/mommangalyaan-orbiter-mission-and-maven.html)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/19/2014 07:39 PM
    Quote from: blog post
    MAVEN however continues to fall for some time,  but slowly the retros succeed in reducing its rate of fall and after some time it actually starts decelerating  the MAVEN  and this prevents its crash on Martian surface

    This doesn't seem right. It won't crash if there were no retros but rather follow a hyperbolic path around Mars and shoot away.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/20/2014 06:26 AM
    As shared on FB, MOM is in capture configuration : MOI sensors, electrical subsystems and backups are powered on.

    Edit/CR: Over-sized embedded image converted to an attachment

    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/21/2014 04:17 AM
    ISRO scientists and engineers monitoring the orbiter from the heart of the mission centre at Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network in Bangalore.

    (http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/02117/TH21-ISRO_2117605g.jpg)

    Picture of the 440 Newton engine/Liquid Apogee Motor, which forms the orbiter's propulsion system.

    (http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/02117/TH21-ENGINE2_2117604g.jpg)

    Source (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-to-rev-up-mangalyaans-engine/article6430097.ece)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/21/2014 04:23 AM
    Quote
    Your team has mixed feelings about Plan B because some believe that it could compromise the profile of the mission.

    The implementation of Plan B will result in a new and larger orbit as the eight thrusters will fire for a longer period of time. I will not be disappointed because it is possible some new science may come out of it. Let's just wait and watch. Basically, our mission is to demonstrate that we have the capability to capture the Martian orbit and once this happens on Wednesday we can declare we have been successful. We will be the first Asian nation to have reached Mars in the first shot itself.

    Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hope-to-be-first-Asian-country-to-reach-Mars-in-first-shot-K-Radhakrishnan/articleshow/43044348.cms)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/21/2014 10:32 AM
    (http://images.indianexpress.com/2014/09/isro_m.jpg?w=1000)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/21/2014 11:17 AM
    What is the current state of preparation for Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI) manoeuvre on September 24?

    Quote
    On September 14th and 15th we uploaded the commands for the MOI. During the uploading process we verified them and after uploading everything we again went through the reading of all those commands. These are the commands for Plan A of the MOI manoeuvre. The idea is that all the commands are sitting in the spacecraft’s command processor and any major problem in the ground to satellite link will not affect the firing. The commands are time-tagged.

    Plan A involves the main thruster engine, the 440 Newton Liquid Apogee Motor (LAM), and eight small thrusters (22 N) working together for nearly 24 min. That is the nominal plan. We have also uploaded a possible Plan B if it has to be exercised.

    What would Plan B be?

    Quote
    Plan B would be the firing of small thrusters alone for a longer duration. But that would be decided after September 22 if it is essential. On September 22 we are going to have a test firing of the main LAM for nearly 4 sec. LAM was used for the initial six orbit raising (around the earth) operations as well as the Trans-Mars Injection (TMI) manoeuvre on December 1, 2013. After that it has not been used for nearly 10 months. The two Mars Transfer Trajectory (MTT) mid-course corrections that were done on December 11, 2013, and June 11, 2014, were done only with the small thrusters. Small thrusters are working; there is no issue. What we are now looking at is the working of the main engine. [See Fig. 1 for the Mars Orbiter Mission Trajectory so far.]

    So what steps have been taken to ensure that?

    Quote
    If you look at the fluid circuit all the flow lines coming from the fuel and oxidizer tanks to the main engine have two sets; each flow line has a second parallel path as well. Normally we have only one circuit. What is involved in the process here is, [after the initial operations] the first set was closed. Now the second set has to be energized. What we have to establish is that without any interruption fluid will pass through the second set of flow lines and reach the main engine. For the thrusters, however, fuel and oxidizer are tapped from a different point in the circuit and these flow lines were never closed and were always working as the thrusters were required for MTT corrections. Since we know from the corrections done that these Attitude and Orbit Correction (AOC) thrusters are working, these will always be available.

    As for Plan A two things have to happen for the firing to take place. The solenoid coil igniter (there is a redundant second coil as well) above the main engine has to work and the flow lines have to be clear for the fuel and oxidizer to reach the engine simultaneously. Otherwise everything will be stuck.

    Now there is some pressure in both the fuel and oxidizer tanks. We have seen on the ground that with this amount of pressure the entire operation works. Before the launch of the orbiter itself in 2013 we had the live test of an identical LAM engine. This LAM engine is the same as that we have been using for our Geostationary Orbit missions and this was also used in the Chandrayaan-1 mission after a gap. Now also we have seen that on the ground the engine operates after a long gap. Hardware identical to what is in the orbiter has been tested after a year-long gap. So, on the ground we have live tested for the restart of the engine after a long gap. This was actually completed last month.

    Secondly we have also simulated the D-day firing with the propulsion parameters on that day – the tank ullage volume, the pressure, the temperature etc. – for nearly 2000 sec, which is more than the 1500 sec or so required for actual firing, and we have seen how it works. So that guarantee is also there. This was also done last month.

    If there is a problem even then, these thrusters will be fired for a longer duration of 90 min. But the middle point of the firing arc will remain the same; only that we have to start early. But we will not get the same performance with Plan B. It will not be the same planned orbit.

    The basic issue is you have to see that the pressure in the tanks is sufficient for the entire operation; it should not fall below a critical value of 11-12 bar. [1 bar is about one atmosphere pressure.] If it goes below this level you will not get the required performance. Right now the pressurization system above the propellant tanks – the pressurant tank (with very high pressure) and the two pressure regulators – have been isolated which normally come into the pictures only if the pressure falls below 11 bar. It was a conscious thought out decision to shut the system out and we find that there is no need for them as the pressure now in the tanks is being is at the optimum level of 16.5 bar. And we have tested on the ground the fuel-oxidizer flow performance in the ‘blow down’ mode [where the pressure is allowed to drop gradually from 16 bar] and we have seen that the pressure does not fall below the critical level even after the full firing of about 2000 sec as against 1500 sec during the actual firing. So if the flow takes place there is no issue. But if required at any point the pressurization system can be activated.

    There was a planned trajectory correction on September 14. But this doesn’t seem to have been done. Why?

    Quote
    Now when the spacecraft will arrive in the vicinity of Mars, we have been talking about a distance of 500 km plus or minus something like 60 km. If we see the way it is going now the distance will be about 720 km. Our daily calculations also indicate that the trajectory is stable…

    How did this gap of 200-odd kilometers arise? I thought you were maintaining the error margin of 50 km all through and that is why the planned April correction could wait to be carried out instead in June.

    At TMI we took one route that should take us to about 500 km from Mars. To achieve this only we make those minor trajectory corrections. In the original plan we had provided for four corrections. The first was December 11, 2013; the second one was scheduled for April, the third in August and the fourth in September. We did not do the correction in April because it was felt that the spacecraft trajectory was steady and did not need any correction then. We then did the second correction on June 11. The question then was whether we required one in August. We found that there was no need for it because, without the August correction, the trajectory was going to be about only 700 km away from Mars.

    [An altitude of] 700 km is a good number because as long as you don't come too close to about 200 km or it goes farther to about 1100 km so that it escapes Mars altogether, we are safe actually. So we didn't want to tinker unless it was essential and in any case September 14 option was available. And if we had done that we would have fired the small thrusters and that correction would have already brought the orbiter to about 500 km. But we did not do the September correction and instead what we have decided to do is to restart the LAM on September 22 when the orbiter will enter the sphere of influence of Mars. This firing, which will last only for about 4 sec, will impart some correction to the trajectory enough to bring the trajectory approximately to 500 km. So instead of firing small thrusters for a longer duration, and earlier, we will be doing it with the main engine on the 22nd for 4 sec.

    Why four seconds? There are two considerations. There is a minimum time of firing necessary and four seconds are good enough to get at least 3 or 4 good points to know that the fluid flow is proper and also to measure the acceleration imparted correctly. So we will measure once in 520 milliseconds. The velocity change imparted will be about 2.14 m/s.

    The second aspect is the correction from 720 km to about 550 km. The question is when you can do this. If you do it too early, it will give you a different number. And if you do it too close – you can do the previous day too – the problem is your ability or the time required to get into Plan B would be touch and go. That is why we have chosen to do this [test firing] 41 hrs before the actual MOI [that is, at 1430 hrs on the 22nd].

    How have you determined the timing of this test firing?

    Quote
    In that time frame [of 41 hrs] we are fully within the IDSN [Indian Deep Space Network] visibility. Actually it will be in the IDSN visibility range for about seven hours from then and so there is sufficient window to do the operation on that day. There is no issue there. As I mentioned, when we fire the LAM, there are two coils in the solenoid [igniter]. First we will try firing the solenoid Coil 1. If Coil 1 works and we get a good indication of the acceleration, then we are through. If it does not work we will fire Coil 2 after a gap of 1 hr. All these operations will be tested on the 22nd. If both the coils do not work, then we don't depend on LAM.

    As I said before, the centre point of the firing arc is important for the orbit. If we are going to use Plan B we have fire for more time and so we have to start the process early but the mid point will remain the same. If everything goes well as per Plan A, the nominal orbit [Fig. 2] will have an apoapsis of 80,000 km, a periapsis of 423 km and an orbital period of about 3.2 Earth days [or 76.8 hrs]. If Plan B has to be used, the apoapsis will come to about 0.27 million km. But we have to ensure that the periapsis does not come closer and so we will have to make some small corrections to the orbit.

    The braking velocity required during MOI is stated to be about 1.1 km/s. What is the present velocity of the spacecraft which basically determines the burn time of the LAM?

    Quote
    When we speak of velocity of the spacecraft it has to be with respect one of the three celestial objects involved in the mission: the Earth, the Sun and Mars. We don’t talk about the Earth any more. With respect to the Sun, it is 22.57 km/s [81,252 km/hr]. With respect to Mars, when the burn starts the orbiter is speeding at 5.127 km/s at an altitude of 1847 km from Mars. When the burn ends after 24 min, its velocity will be 4.316 km/s and the altitude will be 973 km. During the burn the lowest altitude that the spacecraft will reach is 462 km. This reduction will not be the same as the negative velocity of 1.1 km/s that is imparted because as it moves the velocity increases because of Mars’s influence and the geometry of the trajectory.


    What are the key steps involved in the MOI manoeuvre?

    Quote
    Before we start operations on September 24th, the orientation of the spacecraft has to be changed so that its thrust vector is in the appropriate direction to bring down its velocity. This condition has to be achieved for starting the LAM firing. The time given for the reorienting the spacecraft (rotating and changing the direction) and convergence is 21 min. So the reorientation begins at T-21 min. [Fig. 3]

    When we get into this changed orientation, two things happen: one, there is an eclipse (of the Sun) [This occurs at T-5 min 13 sec; See MOI timeline]. Because of the eclipse there will be no power generation and so the batteries should have sufficient power to keep the operations going. Second, there will be an occultation taking place between the Earth and the spacecraft during the firing period [This occurs post-firing at T+4.3 min]. So there is no communication after about 4 mins of the start of LAM firing; there will be no signal coming to us in real time for about 20 mins. The thruster firing is only 1 or 0. So you will know whether firing has taken place or not and the required acceleration has to follow. Only that you will not be getting the signal. Once the braking velocity of 1098 m/s is achieved the accelerometer automatically terminates the firing. Then it is just physics and the orbiter should be in the correct orbit.

    At the end also, we will start receiving the signal after the firing has just completed because the spacecraft has to be reoriented back. The reverse rotation takes about 10 min as compared to 21 mins for forward rotation. Once this happens we will begin to get the signal and power generation will also be okay. After that we have to get some 5-6 good points to measure the periapsis and the apoapsis so that we get the exact orbit achieved.

    The TCM-2 [Trajectory Correction Manoeuvre] that we did in June was virtually a similar operation for our purpose. There was a telemetry cut off when the spacecraft was reoriented.

    If the spacecraft misses being captured altogether, it will be lost forever…

    Quote
    Now if you are not able to achieve the velocity reduction at that time it will follow the escape trajectory [Fig. 3] and will be lost. You cannot do anything about it.

    The most crucial firing for ISRO’s orbiter in my opinion was the TMI. Because that trajectory, that arc, decides the direction in which we are going. If we had taken a longer duration also it would have been a difficult situation. That we managed successfully. Here now the system has to work. That is the basic issue. And our projections of distance etc. show that they are steady. That is a good indication and we have done the necessary simulations and whatever commands that we have uploaded have also been tested on the ground with similar systems.

    What is the situation with regard to the availability of on-board propellant for the operations involved?

    Quote
    For Plan A there is no issue. For Plan B we will be just on the brink because it has to work for a longer duration. The effective amount of fuel available now is about 285 kg and out of that we will be using about 250 kg for Plan A. But if Plan B has to be used we will come to about 281 kg. After that we only require for periapsis corrections. And at least 3 kg of effective will be left, which is sufficient for periapsis corrections. Otherwise what can happen is that after one orbit it may come very close to the Mars surface and it can get lost. So we need that amount for orbit corrections.

    What about the health status of the instrumentation in the payloads? Do you have any idea about it?

    Quote
    We have tested it. When the spacecraft was in the earth orbit, all the instruments were tested and some measurements were also made to see how they perform. And sometime in April-May-June, we went through all the instruments once again. Instruments are in good health.

    Any issue with regard to power?

    Quote
    As far as power is concerned, since power has to be provided by the battery, we have ensured that power is sufficient. So systems that are not required to be used at that time will not be powered. But thermal control systems have to be on power. Second aspect of the operation would be to test all those systems beforehand which are called upon during the MOI. There should not be any surprise. This is a basic principle which we have been following. All the autonomy provisions except the failsafe mode in case of major failure have been exercised and we have actually authorized the satellite for the autonomous operation of this process. So it will select systems like the appropriate processor, the appropriate gyro etc. The other thing is there should not be any man-made error during the entire operation.

    How important is the thermal control in the Martian orbit?

    Quote
    Actually thermal control is not a very big issue like in the case of Chandrayaan-1 [orbital period of about 11 hrs]. But we still require thermal control for all the instruments. There are actually about 120 parameters in all to be tested and what we have seen from the analysis is that the predicted values and actual measurements match well. See we had 300 days for all this. That is the advantage.


    NASA’s MAVEN will do its MOI two days before ISRO…

    Quote
    MAVEN has not used any of its on-board fuel so far…

    Why? Didn’t they have trajectory corrections to do?

    Quote
    They have basically gone for a very different route. They have not gone straight as ISRO’s Mars Orbiter has done. They have gone up and coming back because their aim is to hit 150 km periapsis. There is a circuitous way of achieving that actually. They reached there anyway using their launch vehicle. Their apoapsis is around 6250 km and periapsis is nearly 150 km. Because of this low periapsis of 150 km they are going very cautiously. Trajectory corrections do not require much fuel anyway, only a few grams or so.

    Have there been any cause for concern or hiccups in the mission so far?

    Quote
    As of now I should say in the entire mission from November 5 to date we have had only a couple of small issues. One was during the orbit-raising operations. One we had to abort. The second issue was related to about half an hour telemetry loss during the entire mission. This happened we were switching over from one telemetry system to another. We have three antennas -- low-gain antenna, high-gain antenna and medium-gain antenna – and this happened at the time of switching over from one to another. Otherwise we did not have any issue as far as the entire system is concerned.


    What is your current reading with regard to the lifetime of the spacecraft?

    Quote
    If Plan A works we feel that a lifetime of six months should be possible. Because what we require are minor corrections to the orbit. A periapsis of 423 km gives us enough margin. We should only not hit something like 150 km or so. Otherwise it is okay. If it is Plan B we have to see how much less it would be. Only when corrections are required we have to be careful. Even if we have only one propellant, either the oxidizer or the fuel, it may not result in combustion but that itself will produce minor thrust. A gas outage also has an impact. So we can use it. These are all the bonuses that we have.


    But there should be enough pressure to achieve that…

    Quote
    Yes, but that is a different story.

    Source (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-mission-is-on-stable-trajectory-isro-chief/article6431827.ece)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/21/2014 04:49 PM
    Source (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-mission-is-on-stable-trajectory-isro-chief/article6431827.ece)

    Thanks for the link. I guess this is one of the most detailed interviews on mission profile.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/22/2014 02:47 AM
    Source (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mars-orbiter-mission-is-on-stable-trajectory-isro-chief/article6431827.ece)

    Thanks for the link. I guess this is one of the most detailed interviews on mission profile.

    np. Yes, very interesting!
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/22/2014 09:17 AM
    From ISRO twitter:
    "Main Liquid Engine test firing successful!"
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/22/2014 09:17 AM
    Going for plan A, as expected:  ;)
     
    ISRO @isro
    #MarsOrbiter Main Liquid Engine test firing successful!
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/22/2014 09:58 AM
    Mass Orbiter Mission: Main Liquid Engine test firing successful

    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/mass-orbiter-mission-main-liquid-engine-test-firing-successful/article6435167.ece?homepage=true (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/mass-orbiter-mission-main-liquid-engine-test-firing-successful/article6435167.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    With just two more days to go for the Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI), the Mars orbiter had a perfect fourth trajectory correction manouevre and test burn for four seconds as programmed, ISRO said at 2.46 pm on Monday (September 22). The Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) will now go ahead with the nominal plan for Mars Orbit Insertion.

    Prior to the test burn, the propellant lines were enabled for the Mars Orbit Insertion. These exclusive lines create a fresh path for propellants to reach the Main Liquid Engine.

    Now that the spacecraft has entered the Mars’ influence, its velocity has to be controlled so that it does not escape the Mars’ influence, an official said, adding, the spacecraft is scheduled to enter the Mars Orbit Insertion at 7.30 a.m. IST on September 24.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/22/2014 10:07 AM
    An earlier report

    ISRO’s Mars orbiter enters Mars’ Sphere of Influence
    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isros-mars-orbiter-enters-mars-sphere-of-influence/article6434410.ece (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isros-mars-orbiter-enters-mars-sphere-of-influence/article6434410.ece)

    Quote
    Cruising towards its historic rendezvous with the Red Planet, India’s Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) on Monday entered Mars’ gravitational Sphere of Influence ahead of its scheduled Orbit Insertion on September 24.

    “Our navigators’ calculations show that MOM has entered the gravitational Sphere of Influence of Mars,” ISRO said on its social networking site, adding, the spacecraft was within 5.4 lakh km radius of the Mars’ gravitational Sphere of Influence.

    Foot note : 1 Lakh = 100,000

    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: antriksh on 09/22/2014 03:29 PM
    Ex-ISRO Chiefs Prof Rao and Dr Kasturirangan with ISRO Chief Dr Radhakrishnan watch LAM test-firing
    ops

    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByI3q1uCEAIl0uw.jpg)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/22/2014 03:34 PM
    This is an amazing thread and I don't want to split it for the event, so I'll rename it later to reflect where we are with the mission.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/23/2014 04:19 AM
    Ex-ISRO Chiefs Prof Rao and Dr Kasturirangan with ISRO Chief Dr Radhakrishnan watch LAM test-firing
    ops


    And the next generation:

    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByJG5vxCYAA7xvw.jpg)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/23/2014 10:32 AM
    Mars Orbiter Mission - Orbit Insertion Timeline (in IST).

    Sep 24, 2014
    4.17 am: Operations to insert the spacecraft into Mars’ orbit will start. Change over to Medium Gain Antenna.
    6.56 am: The craft will be rotated towards Mars. The craft’s insertion into Mars orbit will be from the dark side.
    7.12 am: The craft will enter eclipse.
    7.17 am: The liquid engine burn will start. The total burn duration is expected to be 24.14 minutes, consuming 249.5 kg of liquid propellant.
    7.21 am: The Mars occult will begin. Mars will be between Earth and the spacecraft, and the radio link with the ground station will be lost.
    7.22 am: Telemetry will switch off. The craft will execute all operations on its own.
    7.37 am: The eclipse will end, the Mars occult will continue.
    7.41 am: The liquid engine burn will end.
    7.42-8.04 am: A reverse maneuver will reorient the spacecraft’s antenna towards Earth.
    7.45 am: The Mars occult will end.
    7.47 am: Telemetry will resume. Scientists will get information about the burn performance.
    8.15 am: First information about the mission will be available from Australia. After an hour, India will be able to get data on its own.

    -Source rediff (http://www.rediff.com/news/report/mangalyaan-enters-last-leg-will-india-win-asian-race-to-mars/20140922.htm) and planetary.org (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09161033-mars-orbiter-mission-arrival-timeline.html)
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: dsmillman on 09/23/2014 10:35 AM
    Is there going to be a live webcast of MOI?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/23/2014 10:59 AM
    Thread realigned for the events tonight.

    Chris G will have an article on later.
    Title: Re: Indian PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission, Nov. 5, 2013 (0908UTC)
    Post by: vyoma on 09/23/2014 11:55 AM
    Is there going to be a live webcast of MOI?

    Live telecast will start from Sep 24th 6:45 AM IST, on Doordarshan National TV and ISRO website.

    Mission timeline: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1261060#msg1261060
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: dsmillman on 09/23/2014 12:49 PM
    Is there going to be a live webcast of MOI?

    Live telecast will start from Sep 24th 6:45 AM IST, on Doordarshan National TV and ISRO website.

    Mission timeline: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1261060#msg1261060
    What is the URL of the telecast?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/23/2014 01:07 PM
    Is there going to be a live webcast of MOI?

    Live telecast will start from Sep 24th 6:45 AM IST, on Doordarshan National TV and ISRO website.

    Mission timeline: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1261060#msg1261060
    What is the URL of the telecast?


    ISRO webcast:
    http://webcast.isro.gov.in (alternate links available in the same page)

    DD National live YouTube link is not available yet. I guess it will be up by tomorrow morning:
    http://webcast.gov.in/live/

    https://youtube.com/user/DoordarshanNational

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/23/2014 02:13 PM
    T -11:32:00  ;D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/23/2014 09:07 PM
    Feature for the event from Chris Gebhardt:
    http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/09/draft-indias-mom-spacecraft-arrive-mars/
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: blister on 09/23/2014 10:57 PM
    Is there going to be a live webcast of MOI?

    Live telecast will start from Sep 24th 6:45 AM IST, on Doordarshan National TV and ISRO website.

    Mission timeline: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1261060#msg1261060
    What is the URL of the telecast?


    ISRO webcast:
    http://webcast.isro.gov.in (alternate links available in the same page)

    DD National live YouTube link is not available yet. I guess it will be up by tomorrow morning:
    http://webcast.gov.in/live/

    https://youtube.com/user/DoordarshanNational

    ISRO webcast testfeed is started.
    http://216.185.104.74/video/isro/300614/vod.asf

    DD Other link
    http://desilivetv.net/dd-news/
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/23/2014 11:26 PM
    Just about time:

    ISRO @isro
    #MarsOrbiter live update: Medium Gain Antenna takes over
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/23/2014 11:34 PM
    >Live telecast will start from Sep 24th 6:45 AM IST<

    Apparently just gone past 5am on that timezone, for those wondering how to work it out.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/23/2014 11:38 PM
    >Live telecast will start from Sep 24th 6:45 AM IST<

    Apparently just gone past 5am on that timezone, for those wondering how to work it out.

    6:45 am INST = 01:15 UTC = 9:15 pm Eastern.  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 12:46 AM
    Good Morning :)


    MGA took over telemetry some-time ago (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1555965521293471/?type=1&permPage=1).

    (https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10542856_1555965521293471_2392517864721997835_n.jpg?oh=8d45cfa38a08d72848caea956f7e3b8d&oe=548C069A&__gda__=1422375981_1d7384122e6ebd6c57b87db6fa6e1518)




    Location update (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1556006074622749/?type=1)


    (https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10351378_1556006074622749_6119969465639347092_n.jpg?oh=90c856e7898bad29b34fef4979d2d8d1&oe=54BEE30C&__gda__=1422108873_5cc27c02d248335baad8326b48af5dbe)


    Pallava Bagla (who I think is perhaps the Indian cable media's only on-camera science correspondent) will be live on site (ISTRAC Bangalore) - and live on NDTV at: http://www.ndtv.com/video/live/channel/ndtv24x7 (http://www.ndtv.com/video/live/channel/ndtv24x7)


    (He was on B-roll 5 minutes ago, in the cleanroom saying, the "spacecraft smells nice, and smells of India" - so it's up to you what feed you want to follow along on. I know I'll be watching the official ISRO coverage)


    Other English news channels which should carry it live:
    CNN-IBN - http://ibnlive.in.com/livetv/ (http://ibnlive.in.com/livetv/)
    Times NOW - http://live.indiatimes.com/ (http://live.indiatimes.com/)
    Headlines Today - [youtube]xn-jCUQyCZs[/youtube]


    Emily's curated a Twitter list of likely updaters: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09231457-how-i-will-be-watching-mom.html (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09231457-how-i-will-be-watching-mom.html)


    IBNLive Blog - http://ibnlive.in.com/news/live-blog-isro-to-fire-mangalyaan-into-mars-orbit-in-a-few-hours-from-now/501385-3.html (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/live-blog-isro-to-fire-mangalyaan-into-mars-orbit-in-a-few-hours-from-now/501385-3.html)


    Quote
    Prime Minister Narendra Modi is present in Bangalore to witness the historic event. So is Union Minister (addendum: of Science and Technlolgy) Jitendra Singh.


    Btw, some of those news claims are a bit off. Mars Express was ESA's maiden Mars mission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars), and it's still operational.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 12:59 AM
    Remember, only embed if it's less than the page width, or we'll have to delete due to format. Attach as a priority.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:06 AM
    Broadcast starts in 10 minutes. In the mean time here is some funky Indian music. :-)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:07 AM
    Remember, only embed if it's less than the page width, or we'll have to delete due to format. Attach as a priority.

    Yeah, sorry. But I found a workaround (http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Basic_bulletin_board_codes). [img width=less than 500]http://<insert url here>[/img]. That'll scale the image automatically.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:07 AM
    Welcome to ISTRAC, ISRO.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:09 AM
    That's cool AJA. Maybe we can get the webmasters to make that default! Good morning to you by the way ;)

    Indian TV is fascinating. Switches back and forth with English, in the same adverts.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:11 AM
    IBN going big time with this.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:12 AM
    Noting the risks associated with getting the insertion wrong.

    Cheapest interplanetary mission in global history.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:13 AM
    India's PM is at ISRO HQ.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/24/2014 01:14 AM
    Webcast on Youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZL_Vwy0JqI
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:14 AM
    That's cool AJA. Maybe we can get the webmasters to make that default! Good morning to you by the way ;)

    Indian TV is fascinating. Switches back and forth with English, in the same adverts.

    Good morning! But do you even know when you last slept? :D

    English has made a place for itself in most Indian languages. No one'll bother to translate "orbit insertion", or "Apogee motor" :P Same reason why I can make some sense of Russian launches. But I'll stop with the chit-chat now.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:15 AM
    24 minute burn expected.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:17 AM
    Good morning :) ISRO webcast and DD live started.

    http://webcast.isro.gov.in/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZL_Vwy0JqI
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:17 AM
    ISRO broadcast has started.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:19 AM
    70 m antennas used.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:20 AM
    Real Time Display.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:20 AM

    Good morning! But do you even know when you last slept? :D


    2:20am in England, but it wouldn't matter, as this is another Mars mission. Sleeping through this would be a sin! ;D

    They are making a big deal out of the cost. "MAVEN cost 10 times more. Hollywood movies cost a lot more".
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:21 AM
    Eclipse animation. Uses 36 Amp hour batteries.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:21 AM
    Showing B-roll, explaining the sequence of events.


    The first telemetry's going to come from Australia (Canberra 70 m). Evocative of some happy moments :D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:22 AM
    IBN went to the ISRO feed for the interim.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:22 AM
    Ignition animation. (This hasn't happened yet.)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:23 AM
    Burn end animation. Burn is for 24 minutes.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:24 AM
    Reverse maneuver animation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:24 AM
    Control room.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:25 AM
    Commentator talking about differences between Earth and Mars.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:25 AM
    Shots from NDTV
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:26 AM
    Current position. About 16 minutes from entering eclipse.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:27 AM
    Prof UR Rao (ex-ISRO chairman, PRL chairman), and Prof Yashpaul.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:27 AM
    Similar inclinations.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:28 AM
    The big question - about life ever being on Mars - getting a good mention.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:28 AM
    The big guns

    https://twitter.com/PMOIndia/status/514585087896088576 (https://twitter.com/PMOIndia/status/514585087896088576)


    Emily's sewing a Mangalyaan model: I want!
    https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/514583352213393408


    Timely tweet: https://twitter.com/daddy_san/status/514586027068243969
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:28 AM
    Weight on Mars!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:29 AM
    Real-time spacecraft status and health checks.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:29 AM
    From ISRO twitter:
    Quote
    Forward Rotation must have begun,it is required to align the direction of firing for effective braking. Confirmation reaches after 12.5 mins
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:29 AM
    Olympus Mons.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:30 AM
    Yay, Phobos!

    Would have been NASA's priority target, had the Flexible Path won through.
    http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/01/taking-aim-phobos-nasa-flexible-path-precursor-mars/

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:31 AM
    Mars is our closest cousin. About 11 minutes from entering eclipse.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:32 AM
    Fair amount on the "if it goes wrong".
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:33 AM
    Pretty large control room. About 9 minutes from eclipse.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:34 AM
    Successful missions to Mars.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:35 AM
    Mariner 9.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:35 AM
    Viking 1.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:36 AM
    Mars Pathfinder.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:36 AM
    Apparently the PM's entered the control room now..



    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:37 AM
    Mars Express. About 5 minutes from eclipse.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:37 AM
    "Liquid engine burn scheduled to start in a few minutes from now"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:38 AM
    Back to control room.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:40 AM
    ISRO twitter:
    Quote
    "#MarsOrbiter start of forward rotation is confirmed."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:40 AM
    Confirmation of rotation should be at 7:09, which was 1 minute ago. Applause! Must have happened.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:40 AM
    Applause in the control room...

    Confirmation of having entered Eclipse, and completed slewing?


    Yeah (https://twitter.com/isro/status/514590045995425792/photo/1).


    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQw6tKCcAAnXUE.jpg)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:41 AM
    Applause in the control room...


    Confirmation of having entered Eclipse, and completed slewing?

    Confirmation of start of forward rotation. About to enter eclipse now.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:41 AM
    Not sure if this gives us any clues:
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:42 AM
    PM has arrived.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:42 AM
    ISRO ‏@isro  2m
    #MarsOrbiter start of forward rotation is confirmed.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:42 AM
    Eclipse should be happening now. Arrival of dignitaries.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:43 AM
    "Telemetry break is observed."

    Burn should start in 3 minutes.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:44 AM
    ISRO twitter:
    Quote
    "#MarsOrbiter is now in the shadow of Mars."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:45 AM
    PM:
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:45 AM
    PM I think.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:46 AM
    99.96% efficiency and 2.17 m/s delta-V from test burn. One minute to engine start.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:47 AM
    LAM schematic.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:47 AM
    Engine should be starting now.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:48 AM
    LAM schematic.

    A legible one's in pg. 8 of the pre-MOI press briefing brochure (http://isro.org/mars/pdf/press%20briefing%20on%20MOI.pdf).


    That second picture shows two thrusters firing! Nice grab. Attitude control rather than prop-settling I guess.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:49 AM
    Showing a video.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:49 AM
    ISRO twitter:
    Quote
    #MarsOrbiter Burn must have started. All engines must have started firing by now. Skip a few heartbeats and stand by for confirmation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/24/2014 01:49 AM
    Dammit can't they just show video or at least audio feed from control room...
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 01:50 AM
    India Prime Minister Narendra Modi is wearing a red jacket - symbolism?
    He's certainly a big ISRO fan.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:50 AM
    14 day communication whiteout. Mars occulation in one minute (real time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Svetoslav on 09/24/2014 01:53 AM
    This blog:

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/live-blog-isro-to-fire-mangalyaan-into-mars-orbit-in-a-few-hours-from-now/501385-3.html

    states : Mars Mission - All engines have started burning. It has been flawless. Will burn out the fuel in 24 minutes and gets into Mars orbit.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:53 AM
    @RonBaalke at the NASA JPL Mars control room, observing the Doppler shifts (https://twitter.com/RonBaalke/status/514591500621971456/photo/1)


    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQyPkSCUAAAhoP.jpg)


    @MAVEN2Mars tweeted (https://twitter.com/MAVEN2Mars/status/514592305135620096/photo/1)
    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQy-V2IAAAZqvZ.png)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:53 AM
    Some Indian control screen.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:55 AM
    ISRO:

    #MarsOrbiter Going behind Mars

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:55 AM
    Confirmation of occulation should be received by now, but no mention by ISRO. Showing a video instead!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 01:55 AM
    This blog:

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/live-blog-isro-to-fire-mangalyaan-into-mars-orbit-in-a-few-hours-from-now/501385-3.html (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/live-blog-isro-to-fire-mangalyaan-into-mars-orbit-in-a-few-hours-from-now/501385-3.html)

    states : Mars Mission - All engines have started burning. It has been flawless. Will burn out the fuel in 24 minutes and gets into Mars orbit.

    They're mixing up time of event vs time of confirmation. ISRO said (https://twitter.com/isro/status/514593795917103104/photo/1) that the burn would've started. We won't get confirmation, or know if it's flawless until another 5 minutes atleast. They only have confirmation of radio occultation.

    EDIT: Radio occultation should have started. Confirmation yet to be received

    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQ0VApCIAE_hdD.jpg)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:55 AM
    Not sure what graphs are these.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/24/2014 01:56 AM
    Confirmation of occulation should be received by now, but no mention by ISRO. Showing a video instead!

    It has happened in real time, but we won't know if the burn has started until 4 minutes later.  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:57 AM
    Real time display.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 01:57 AM
    Should be minutes away from confirmation of the burn.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 01:58 AM
    "Burn start will be confirmed by 7:30 AM (IST)"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:58 AM
    T-3:18 to confirmation of burn start.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 01:59 AM
    T-2:14 to confirmation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:01 AM
    Confirmation of ignition! :D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:01 AM
    ISRO twitter:
    Quote
    All engines of the #MarsOrbiter are going strong. Burn start confirmed.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:01 AM
    Yes!

    ISRO ‏@isro  38s
    All engines of the #MarsOrbiter are going strong. Burn start confirmed.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:01 AM
    Engine start should be confirmed by now, but they are not showing it!

    OK, applause. We must have engine start.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:02 AM
    T+1 minute. Three minutes to LOS.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:03 AM
    Applause in the control room.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:03 AM
    LAM burn confirmation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 02:03 AM
    Occultation starts 4 min after burn start
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:03 AM
    Nice animation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:04 AM
    Occult should be happening now.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:05 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:05 AM
    161 m/s delta-V.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:06 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:07 AM
    No one'll bother to translate "orbit insertion", or "Apogee motor"

    Apparently they did translate "Apogee" lol. "Taral"

    They were explaining how the AOCS system has isolation valves, and therefore is more immune to the nasty effects of the hypergolic propellant, whereas the LAM didn't have them (will have to check that diagram later) - before they cut to cover the confirmation of the ignition.

    Still awaiting confirmation of occultation (https://twitter.com/isro/status/514595324153716736/photo/1)?

    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQ1t7jCcAAU6FQ.jpg)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:08 AM
    Talking about orbits. Engine burn should end in 3 minutes (real time). About 19 minutes before the occult ends.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:11 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:11 AM
    Engine burn should be ending now (real time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:13 AM
    MOM should be turning back to Earth now (real time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:13 AM
    ISRO twitter:
    Quote
    Burn end? The firing must have been completed by now & MOM must be turning towards Earth to resume communication.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:15 AM
    We've crashed Facebook lol.

    Explaining how the spacecraft is ranged. (Delta DOR, Doppler ranging)


    Getting telemetry from TWO THREE DSN antennae! (https://twitter.com/moonyguy/status/514592219253059584)
    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQy5XcCAAANlHk.png)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:16 AM
    Occult should be ending now (real time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:17 AM
    Telemetry should be resuming now (real time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:17 AM
    looks to still be burning
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:19 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:19 AM
    Display is showing engine burning, but that is delayed time I believe. Burn ends in 5 minutes delayed time.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:19 AM
    "Dopple Residue with MOI Burn"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:20 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:21 AM
    ISRO ‏@isro  50s
    Occultation is now behind us! Telemetry must have activated. Allow it another nerve wracking 12.5 minutes.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:21 AM
    Doppler residue and accumulated velocity.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:21 AM
    Got titles to those plots, with zoomed in shots..
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:21 AM
    approx 3 min left for burn (on screen)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:22 AM
    Plots...
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:22 AM
    T+21:16 minutes.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:22 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:23 AM
    "We're all ears!" (https://twitter.com/isro/status/514600194801807361)


    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQ6JZbCYAAqfYF.jpg)

    Come on ET..phone home.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:23 AM
    10 mins to confirmation!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:23 AM
    Burn should be ending any second now (delayed time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:25 AM
    should be in reverse rotation now
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:25 AM
    Reverse rotation should've started.. takes about 10 minutes.


    MGA has an FOV of +/- 40 degrees... so don't need to wait for 10 min. ~6 minutes should be enough. Telemetry rate should be around 250 bits per second.


    At around 8 am, they'd be out of eclipse and power positive.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:26 AM
    "Reverse rotation to start at 7:54 AM (IST)" (should have started)
    "Entire reverse rotation takes 10 minutes"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:26 AM
    (I can relate)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:26 AM
    T+24:24. Burn should have ended now (delayed time).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:27 AM
    Data rate is 250 bit/s.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:28 AM
    3 min away from telemetry
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:28 AM
    ~3 min away from confirmation (if nominal)


    Out of Occultation ...now waiting only on slewing. ~90seconds away now
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:28 AM
    3 minutes away from confirmation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 02:30 AM
    BIG APPLAUSE in control room!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:30 AM
    Applause!!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:31 AM
    And done! :D Awesome.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 02:31 AM
    Sounds like SUCCESS!  8)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:31 AM
    Huge applause! Telemetry must have been confirmed.

    Congratulations to ISRO and India for a successful orbital insertion (presumably)!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:32 AM
    There's a lot of congratulations going on!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:32 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:33 AM
    Wow. Absolutely looks like success!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:34 AM
    There's a lot of congratulations going on!

    I should say so!

    Welcome India, to a very exclusive 'club'!

    Successful orbital insertion of a spacecraft at Mars.

    A huge and heartfelt congrats to the country, and the teams, for making this happen.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 02:34 AM
    Yep. Control room all shaking hands, etc.

    Many congrats to ISRO and India!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:34 AM
    Animation showing insertion.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:34 AM
    Celebration :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:34 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 02:35 AM
    New twitter handle for MOM spacecraft:
    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:36 AM
    Current status.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:37 AM
    No peanuts from JPL?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:37 AM
    PM's addressing the gathering.. (and the world scientific community)

    "Today, Mars got a MOM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Needs_Moms)" Don't tell me that movie played on Air India One.

    "Mothers never disappoint."

    "We're dared to reach out into the unknown, and do what is nearly impossible."

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:38 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Lsquirrel on 09/24/2014 02:39 AM
    Congratulations to MOM,Congratulations to ISRO!
    Go India!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:39 AM
    Here come the speeches. PM first.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:39 AM
    PM: "India has successfull reached Mars"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:39 AM
    PM: "History has been created today"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:41 AM
    "India has successfully reached Mars."

    "History has been made today."

    "I congratulate ISRO scientists and Indians on this historic occasion."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:41 AM
    PM: "We have gone beyond the boundaries of human enterprise"
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:42 AM
    "We have gone beyond the boundaries of human enterprise and imagination. Traversed a path known to very few"

    Contrasts light time between Sun-Earth, and Earth-Mars Orbiter. Haha. Latter's longer by 4 minutes! I'm now thinking about Voyager, and I'm gobsmacked. (More... if that was possible. Something about being more detached from the sun than ALL of Earth)

    "With today's spectacular success, ISRO joins an elite group of only 3 other agencies worldwide to have successfully reached the Red Planet."

    Taken from feasibility studies to fulfilment in 3 years.

    It's a pan Indian effort. The governor of the state is from Rajkot. An instrument is from Rajkot. (Rajkot is from his state). Also talks about how he visited SAC, Ahmedabad often. (The Methane sensor for Mars and the MCC was made there).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:42 AM
    Great support from the PM.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: catdlr on 09/24/2014 02:43 AM
    Congratulations to India, it's people, government and ISRO.  I great achievement to them.  I'm so happy for them.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:44 AM
    PM: "the Odds were against us"
    "Of the 51 missons, a mere 21 had succeeded, but we have prevailed"
    "India is the only country to have succeeded in its very first attempt."
    "We put the spacecraft together in record time"

    (I missed a few lines)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:44 AM
    "India is the only country to have succeeded on its first attempt."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/24/2014 02:45 AM
    Congratszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 02:46 AM
    No peanuts from JPL?

    NASA JPL's best wishes already posted on ISRO MOM Facebook page

    https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1555721007984589/?type=1&theater
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:46 AM
    "Use of a small rocket."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/24/2014 02:47 AM
    Quote
    "India is the only country to have succeeded in its very first attempt."

    Maybe the first "single-country" to succeed in first attempt. Since ESA already made it in first attempt with Mars Express.  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:47 AM
    "Uncertainity is a part of the journey. "

    "The hunger of exploration and the thrill of discovery is not for the faint hearted."

    "I was faced with 2 options - let me disclose a secret. Where should I be present today? The scientists told me that this is a difficult thing, and we don't know if we'll be successful. I said - don't you worry... if it fails, then I'll be first one to support you." #Respect.


    "Innovation, after all, by its very nature - involves risk. As you are trying to something which you have not done before. It's a leap into the dark. Humanity would not have progressed, if we had not taken those risks. And space is indeed the biggest unknown out there."


    In Hindi - would we have learnt swimming, if we hadn't ventured into the ocean? (Speechwriter's a fan of Sagan I guess).


    "The biggest moment in the creation of success, is the decision to take that risk."

    "ISRO has created a habit of achieving the impossible."

    "You have developed self-reliance in the face of hostile circumstances. Every generation of your scientists has groomed the next home-grown lot". Harkens back to the ancient Indian concept of Gurukuls.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: atnanda on 09/24/2014 02:47 AM
    DeltaV achieved : 1099 m/s. Expected - 1098.7 m/s
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:50 AM
    "Space is the biggest unknown out there."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 02:51 AM
    "....Space is indeed the biggest unknown out there"

    What I find most impresive of the PM's speech so far is the fact that he doesn't seem to be using a tele-prompter, and yet he seems extremely articulate and knowledgable. It's been a long time that I recall a PM or President who is that quick & knowledgable of the subject at hand.

    I can't keep up with his great comments. Very inspirational leader. Is he available? We could use one in Canada. lol

    Night all, and congrats again to India on this most historic night.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:53 AM
    "Inspired our future generations."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/24/2014 02:53 AM
    Congrats all! Thanks for covering it is so well  ;D
    Now waiting for a picture from Mars
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/24/2014 02:55 AM
    PM says, "I had option not to come here but I still chose to. Even if we had failed, its my responsibility that I be present with the scientists." Inspiring!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:55 AM
    Talking about the across the board expertise required for space technology, and how that can translate into good governance (his campaign message, and pretty much his mandate). Tying it in nicely with ISRO's application focus.

    What I find most impresive of the PM's speech so far is the fact that he doesn't seem to be using a tele-prompter, and yet he seems extremely articulate and knowledgable. It's been a long time that I recall a PM or President who is that quick & knowledgable of the subject at hand.

    He's a great orator.

    Today's a day of some ritual observance in the Hindu calendar to pay tribute to your forefathers... and he's folding that in too. With the mention of Aryabhatta, and zero.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:55 AM
    "To help the world understand the mysteries of the heavens."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 02:58 AM
    India Prime Minister Modi says that this Mars mission must lay the groundwork for even higher goals

    I say -- Let the next Mars mission's planning commence!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 02:58 AM
    "Let us push our boundaries, and then push some more, push some more." :D

    He's quoting Tagore's "without fear" poem. :)


    If our cricket team wins a tournament and comes back home, the whole country breaks into dance. This achievement of scientists is a 1000x greater as an achievement."


    "Tomorrow is the start of Navratri, it's an auspicious beginning. Let's have five minutes of applause for these scientists in every school and college. Let every Indian own this achievement."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 02:59 AM
    "Let us push our boundaries."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/24/2014 03:01 AM
    "This is 1000x better than Indian team winning the cricket tournament."

    "This moment needs to be celebrated in schools and everywhere people should assemble for 5 mins and applause for this great achievement."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:02 AM
    PM congratulating ISRO staff.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/24/2014 03:03 AM
    Hogged it all.. Lets the 'real' people behind this come forward mate..
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 03:05 AM
    Hogged it all.. Lets the 'real' people behind this come forward mate..

    Haha.. that's one of the criticisms of our PM. But not to worry. You can bet that the project team, and managers would've all been booked on prime-time news shows, and interviews. Profiles in newspapers throughout the remainder of the week, if not longer.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 03:06 AM
    Final orbital velocity only deviated 0.3m/s from the planned target. Very precise!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:09 AM
    "Success is sweet, but is a product of sweat."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:10 AM
    PM signing something.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 03:11 AM
    Image(s) from MCC to be expected today evening (IST).

    https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/514611384806412288
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 03:12 AM
    Final orbital velocity only deviated 0.3m/s from the planned target. Very precise!

    Source (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/posts/1556044584618898)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:14 AM
    Nice model of the PSLV.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 03:15 AM
    Did she perhaps have a view of a shooting star in the night sky?
    Were any of the other orbiters in a decent vantage point to slew and observe another spacecraft entering orbit? Either MAVEN or Mangalyaan?

    https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/514613326525890560 (https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/514613326525890560)


    Quote
    Jealous of @MarsOrbiter? @MarsCuriosity is returning massive amounts of data right now http://www.midnightplanets.com/ (http://www.midnightplanets.com/)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:15 AM
    Model of MOM I believe.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 03:16 AM
    @MarsOrbiter:
    Quote
    I’ll be back after breakfast. Good ol’ sunlight. It’s good for your battery.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 03:17 AM
    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter/status/514613889929969664 (https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter/status/514613889929969664)
    Quote
    I’ll be back after breakfast. Good ol’ sunlight. It’s good for your battery.

    A shoutout to ISRO's social media team too. Awesome work.


    PM signing something.


    He's autographing the information brochures for whoever manages to get close enough to him.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:18 AM
    Looks like PM signing MOM insertion brochure.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 03:19 AM
    Congratulations to ISRO. Now, waiting for pictures and data :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:20 AM
    End of broadcast.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 03:22 AM
    End of broadcast.

    Webcast. You better believe it's pretty much the ONLY thing on news channels. :D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: PahTo on 09/24/2014 03:23 AM

    Thanks for the coverage, and congrats big time to ISRO and the nation of India!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 03:44 AM
    Quote
    "India is the only country to have succeeded in its very first attempt."

    Maybe the first "single-country" to succeed in first attempt. Since ESA already made it in first attempt with Mars Express.  ;)

    What about Beagle 2?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Hungry4info3 on 09/24/2014 03:55 AM
    What about Beagle 2?
    Beagle 2 was not an orbiter, but a lander carried with Mars Express, which did get into orbit successfully.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 04:02 AM
    What about Beagle 2?

    [youtube]KeyLHPg6ft4[/youtube]

     :D :D

    Also, if we're classifying Mars Express as a partial success (after 5 mission extensions, it'd require a real hard-nosed boss to do so), then we can only (thus far atleast) call Mangalyaan a partial success too. (Akin to how Chandrayaan was a 95% success).

    I'd love it if people stopped talking about who went first. We had the advantage of learning from past missions. The ISRO chairman said as much in an interview, but it gets glossed over.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/24/2014 04:06 AM
    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter/status/514618412417302528

    (http://i59.tinypic.com/244pb91.png)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/24/2014 04:12 AM
    Regardless of how you count the "firsts" this is a tremendous accomplishment for ISRO. Congratulations!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/24/2014 04:13 AM
    @MarsOrbiter is apparently the new official twitter handle for MOM.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/24/2014 04:15 AM
    Speaking of MOM's history....can someone explain how on Earth it could be launched 15 months after receiving the government's green light? I guess the individual parts of the spacecraft and its instruments were funded separately before as "R&D effort" projects? Or ISRO et al. simply can work on it without waiting for the snail pace Indian bureaucracy to approve it?

    When did MOM started to become one project?  ::)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: cosmonautdjp on 09/24/2014 04:25 AM
    Congratulations India and ISRO!  This is an amazing achievement and a truly historic event!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/24/2014 04:41 AM
    News report coming in that first photograph has been taken and will be released soon.

    Source: Pallava Bagla (Journalist, NDTV)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: johnxx9 on 09/24/2014 04:50 AM
    What about Beagle 2?
    Beagle 2 was not an orbiter, but a lander carried with Mars Express, which did get into orbit successfully.

    ISRO was speaking about "missions to mars" as a whole. Both Beagle 2 and Mars Express were part of the same mission. Since Beagle 2 failed, the mission as whole is classified as partial success.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/24/2014 05:40 AM
    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter/status/514618412417302528

    Except it can't.  No Electra. I guess they can take pictures of each other  - though I doubt if they'd be discernible.

    Speaking of MOM's history....can someone explain how on Earth it could be launched 15 months after receiving the government's green light? I guess the individual parts of the spacecraft and its instruments were funded separately before as "R&D effort" projects? Or ISRO et al. simply can work on it without waiting for the snail pace Indian bureaucracy to approve it?

    When did MOM started to become one project?  ::)

    3 years.. not 15 months. (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1261581#msg1261581) The government approval would've been given somewhere into the project - you know... for final authorisation to commit resources to cut metal.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/24/2014 05:47 AM
    According to news reports they have got the desired apoapsis and peripasis - 427 km x 78,500 km

    http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-creates-history-with-mars-mission/article6441192.ece?homepage=true (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-creates-history-with-mars-mission/article6441192.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    "The periapsis achieved was 427 km and the apoapsis was 78,500 km. The final values will be obtained after several hours," said Mission Director, MOM, V. Kesava Raju.

    Seems like ISRO hit bull's eye.. almost..  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/24/2014 05:53 AM
    Speaking of MOM's history....can someone explain how on Earth it could be launched 15 months after receiving the government's green light? I guess the individual parts of the spacecraft and its instruments were funded separately before as "R&D effort" projects? Or ISRO et al. simply can work on it without waiting for the snail pace Indian bureaucracy to approve it?

    When did MOM started to become one project?  ::)

    I am in no way qualified but I think they modified and adopted a lot from what they already had for Chandrayaan 1.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/24/2014 06:00 AM
    I'd love it if people stopped talking about who went first. We had the advantage of learning from past missions. The ISRO chairman said as much in an interview, but it gets glossed over.

    I agree AJA! We are standing on the shoulders of giants here. Our success here, in no small measure, owes to the challenges and failures the Americans and Soviets faced early on due to the unknowns. We should rather see this success as a sign that more and more countries are coming to the forefront of deep space exploration, and opportunities for greater international cooperation. It is no longer a 2 or 3 person race.

    By the way, a great coverage here by the folks at NSF! Didn't have a TV or good Net connection where I stay, so this forum was the only source for the up-to-date info for me..  :)

    Great work.. and a Big Thanks everyone!!
    Title: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Star One on 09/24/2014 06:27 AM
    Congratulations to all concerned & it's a truly great achievement to do something like this on the first attempt. Gratified too see it was quite high up on the BBC news schedule this morning.

    Here's the story on their website.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28268186
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/24/2014 07:46 AM
    Speaking of MOM's history....can someone explain how on Earth it could be launched 15 months after receiving the government's green light? I guess the individual parts of the spacecraft and its instruments were funded separately before as "R&D effort" projects? Or ISRO et al. simply can work on it without waiting for the snail pace Indian bureaucracy to approve it?

    When did MOM started to become one project?  ::)



    Project feasibility study began in 2010. And, 15 months was the time taken to build/assemble spacecraft and payloads, after budget was allocated in 2012. So, total time taken from concept to launch would be 3 years (2010 to 2013).

    http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mangalyaan-from-report-to-reality-in-three-years-597027
    Quote
    Three years ago, V Adimurthy wrote a feasibility report, the first ever, on a mission to Mars. Today, when India's Mars orbiter Mangalyaan successfully entered the red planet's orbit, he said, "It is a dream come true."

    http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2139/1 (dated August 20, 2012)
    Quote
    Even though the official approval for India’s mission has come just this month, the budgetary provisions were already included in the Union Budget of 2011–2012 and mission preparations had begun. Nonetheless, with the mission’s launch planned for November 2013, there is very little time left for completing all the arrangements. This is going to be a real challenge for ISRO, but it has very little option in this regard: if they miss the November 2013 window then the next chance available would be only around the year 2016 or 2018.

    Various scientific payloads have been shortlisted by ISRO's Advisory Committee for Space Sciences (ADCOS) review committee. Also, the baseline solar array and reflector configuration of the satellite has been finalized. Various details about the exact nature of scientific payloads are yet to be announced, though. Also, it is not known whether the entire scientific payload would be from India or ISRO is making the platform available for other countries to send their payloads, as was done during the Moon mission.

    http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/09271011-mangalyaan-update.html (dated 27 Sep 2012)
    Quote
    Mangalyaan, India's 2013 Mars mission, is now under construction
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Dalhousie on 09/24/2014 07:48 AM
    This is a great achievement, I can't resisting pointing out the negativity when this was first announced, 26 months ago, at the start of the thread.

    Reply #1 on: 07/15/2012 10:07 AM »
    Very unlikely that this will launch in 2013. I'm going to say 2016 at the earliest.

    Reply #2 on: 07/16/2012 12:19 PM »
    I don't know why they're even claiming it would launch in 2013, hell the design isn't even finalized yet.

    Reply #3 on: 07/16/2012 03:15 PM »
    Is 2013 even a launch window to Mars?

    Reply #5 on: 07/18/2012 08:59 AM »
    Maybe 2013 is when the next *phase* of the Indian Mars programme is started/launched?

    Reply #6 on: 07/23/2012 01:36 AM »
    It's only supposed to be a 25-kg probe. There may not be a whole lot to finalize or design into it.

    Reply #12 on: 08/28/2012 08:18 PM »
    Do any of their launch vehicles actually have the throw capacity to put a significant & useful payload into orbit around Mars, as that second link certainly makes it sound like this isn't the case?

    Reply #14 on: 08/29/2012 05:49 PM »
    wouldn't it be better to wait for the GSLV MK III?

    Reply #15 on: 08/29/2012 05:54 PM »
    I remain convinced that the haste with which the mission has been approved, in spite of the launch window opening practically tomorrow (in 14 months, which will require a very fast development and testing phase), has something to do with the fact that China will likely launch something to Mars in 2016

    Reply #16 on: 08/29/2012 06:47 PM »
    I fear that as a result of this undue haste there is far higher likelihood that the mission will end negatively. Something which will not stand any future Mars exploration by the country in good stead.

    Reply #17 on: 08/30/2012 02:42 PM »
    Actually, the main reason for the haste is because of the fallout of a political corruption scam.

    Reply #18 on: 09/08/2012 10:44 PM »
    India's politically embattled Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is increasingly trying to associate himself with ISRO, hoping that the national pride it invokes will rub off on him

    Reply #25 on: 10/09/2012 04:07 AM »
    Did the project actually started one or two years ago? I can't see the developers churning out probe structures and engines a month or two after it started development...

    Reply #42 on: 01/04/2013 04:47 PM »
    This sounds awfully tight to meet the October launch date....  Hopefully the Indian engineers and scientists aren't under too much pressure to meet the 2013 window - just as the Russians/Americans had learned the painful lesson of skipping whole system testing on Phobos-Grunt/MCO/MPL........

     Reply #50 on: 01/08/2013 05:37 PM »
    This all seems very rushed I hope this aspect doesn't come back to haunt them.


    So it is great to see the Indians confounding it by being on time (yes 2013 was a launch window), on budget and, despite the alleged political smoke screen as a motivation, have delivered a scientific payload to Mars orbit on the first attempt.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: avollhar on 09/24/2014 08:07 AM
    Congratulations! I am pleased to see that ISRO demonstrated that planetary missions *can* be done for less money than NASA/ESA thinks, well done!

    Side remark: AMSAT-DL has proposed the idea of lauching into geostationary transfer orbit first and then use on-board propulsion of the Mars probe to inject into Mars transfer orbit in 2002:

    http://www.amsat-dl.org/p5a/p5a-to-mars.pdf (http://www.amsat-dl.org/p5a/p5a-to-mars.pdf)

    As an effort to drastically reduce launch costs.. The mission plan executed by MOM is very close to our mission plan which was refined over the following years (and even positively reviewed by german space ageny DLR in 2010). Unfortunately, we were not able to secure enough funding..
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/24/2014 09:32 AM
    This is a great achievement, I can't resisting pointing out the negativity when this was first announced, 26 months ago, at the start of the thread.

    (snip)

    So it is great to see the Indians confounding it by being on time (yes 2013 was a launch window), on budget and, despite the alleged political smoke screen as a motivation, have delivered a scientific payload to Mars orbit on the first attempt.

    To be fair, at that time no-one really knows that the project was already undergoing since 2010, and the "final authorization" to build the spacecraft muddles the water even more. And the Indians were certainly quite fast in building up the spacecraft - 15 months for spacecraft final assembly and testing through launch is still rather tight (though actually doable), even when MOM has a rather conservative design.

    I wonder how much of the spacecraft reuses the actual back-up components or even science instruments (with minor modifications) from Chandrayaan 1? That would explains the development and assembly process. (see how Venus Express results from Mars Express/Rosetta for comparison)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/24/2014 10:02 AM
    Posted on ISRO MOM facebook.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: LouScheffer on 09/24/2014 01:13 PM
    @RonBaalke at the NASA JPL Mars control room, observing the Doppler shifts (https://twitter.com/RonBaalke/status/514591500621971456/photo/1)

    @MAVEN2Mars tweeted (https://twitter.com/MAVEN2Mars/status/514592305135620096/photo/1)
    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByQy-V2IAAAZqvZ.png)
    It looks like NASA was devoting quite a bit of DSN time to this mission.  (2 70-m antennas and 2 34 meter antenna).  USA domestic science projects have to pay for this (something like $5k/hour for a big dish and $1250/hr for a small one), plus there is always competition for the limited antenna time.

    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: baldusi on 09/24/2014 01:27 PM
    Quote
    "India is the only country to have succeeded in its very first attempt."

    Maybe the first "single-country" to succeed in first attempt. Since ESA already made it in first attempt with Mars Express.  ;)
    May be he considers Mars 96 the first ESA mission. It was presented as such in that time.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: baldusi on 09/24/2014 01:44 PM
    I want to congratulate ISRO. What they have achieved is an inspiration for us all. And the PM speech brought tears to my eyes. I just say that all Indians should be extremely pride, and the team that worked on this, particularly so.
    Let's remember that the Russian haven't been able to do a successful orbit insertion outside of Earth's since Phobos 2. So they are up there with NASA, ESA and CNSA wrt planetary exploration.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Moe Grills on 09/24/2014 03:29 PM
    Congrats to India; success on the first try. Not even the USA achieved that.
    Now what?
    When is India going to launch a Mars lander?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/24/2014 03:40 PM
    Quote
    Just heard @ibnlive that #MarsOrbiter has sent five pictures back to Earth. Will look for them as soon as I am done with TV interview!

    Source: https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/514799043927486464
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/24/2014 03:41 PM
    Just 12 hours into the orbit, India's successful Mars mission Mangalyaan sends first set of data (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/just-12-hours-into-the-orbit-indias-successful-mars-mission-mangalyaan-sends-first-set-of-data/501597-3.html)


     It's been just 12 hours since India's first interplanetary mission, the Mars orbiter, entered the red planet's orbit successfully and it is already hard at work.
    The Mangalyaan has sent back five photographs of Mars. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) confirmed that their ground station had received the first set of data from the craft.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/24/2014 04:08 PM
    Just heard @NDTV where Prof U R Rao said Mangalyaan saved precious fuel due to precise navigation and Insertion and It is now left with around 40 Kg of fuel, if that is the case it looks that Mars Orbiter Mission may have longer life than six months.  I distinctly remember one of the article in Times of India, a year back, Scientific secretary V Koteswara Rao mentioned that it needs only about 20 kg of fuel to survive for six months, which has been set as its lifespan there.
    Ok found the old source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mars-Orbiter-Mission-may-have-longer-life/articleshow/26491457.cms)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/24/2014 04:57 PM
    An very passionate post on MOM's success by Emily @planetary.org

    http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09240910-reflecting-on-the-success-of-mom.html (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09240910-reflecting-on-the-success-of-mom.html)

    Quite some reflections on the "first country" arguments and how that should indeed be irrelevant in the larger context of ISRO's achievement. Found it quite moving.  :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/24/2014 05:31 PM
    Just heard @NDTV where Prof U R Rao said Mangalyaan saved precious fuel due to precise navigation and Insertion and It is now left with around 40 Kg of fuel, if that is the case it looks that Mars Orbiter Mission may have longer life than six months.  I distinctly remember one of the article in Times of India, a year back, Scientific secretary V Koteswara Rao mentioned that it needs only about 20 kg of fuel to survive for six months, which has been set as its lifespan there.
    Ok found the old source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mars-Orbiter-Mission-may-have-longer-life/articleshow/26491457.cms)

    Ok. And I assume ISRO may not be planning to reduce the periapsis any further. I was wondering if they planned something of that sort since their original plan was to achieve a periapsis of 370km as against the 427 km that apparently became their new plan.

    As per ISRO's latest press release, the final orbital data for MOM is as follows:
    Quote
    The Spacecraft is now circling Mars in an orbit whose nearest point to Mars (periapsis) is at 421.7 km and farthest point (apoapsis) at 76,993.6 km. The inclination of orbit with respect to the equatorial plane of Mars is 150 degree, as intended. In this orbit, the spacecraft takes 72 hours 51 minutes 51 seconds to go round the Mars once.

    Source:http://isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Sep24_2014 (http://isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Sep24_2014)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/24/2014 05:45 PM
    Bolden:


    September 24, 2014
    NASA Administrator Statement About India's Mars Orbiter Mission

    The following statement is from NASA Administrator Charles Bolden about India's Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM):

    "We congratulate the Indian Space Research Organisation for its successful arrival at Mars with the Mars Orbiter Mission.

    "It was an impressive engineering feat, and we welcome India to the family of nations studying another facet of the Red Planet. We look forward to MOM adding to the knowledge the international community is gathering with the other spacecraft at Mars.

    "All space exploration expands the frontiers of scientific knowledge and improves life for everyone on Earth. We commend this significant milestone for India."
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Blackstar on 09/24/2014 05:55 PM
    This is a great achievement, I can't resisting pointing out the negativity when this was first announced, 26 months ago, at the start of the thread.

    (snip)

    So it is great to see the Indians confounding it by being on time (yes 2013 was a launch window), on budget and, despite the alleged political smoke screen as a motivation, have delivered a scientific payload to Mars orbit on the first attempt.

    To be fair, at that time no-one really knows that the project was already undergoing since 2010, and the "final authorization" to build the spacecraft muddles the water even more.

    Yeah, if you read those comments in context, it is clear that everybody was reacting to the claim that the project started yesterday and was launching tomorrow, something that proved to be incorrect.

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Blackstar on 09/24/2014 06:01 PM
    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?

    My suspicion--I don't have any hard data on this--that NASA has some kind of agreement with ISRO that they will provide DSN time in return for access to data eventually. But it could also be a goodwill gesture to foster future ties. The cost probably comes out of a DSN discretionary budget.

    An interesting question is if the MOM data will go into NASA's Planetary Data System database, which would be to everybody's benefit, including ISRO's. Of course, that might only happen after an embargo date so that Indian scientists get first crack at the data.

    NASA actually provided substantial help to ISRO on thermal heating issues for their lunar orbiter, and I have heard that NASA also provided behind the scenes support on MOM as well (although when I asked the MAVEN PI if he had been in touch with them he said that he tried but nobody responded).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: reddy on 09/24/2014 06:15 PM
    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?

    My suspicion--I don't have any hard data on this--that NASA has some kind of agreement with ISRO that they will provide DSN time in return for access to data eventually. But it could also be a goodwill gesture to foster future ties. The cost probably comes out of a DSN discretionary budget.

    An interesting question is if the MOM data will go into NASA's Planetary Data System database, which would be to everybody's benefit, including ISRO's. Of course, that might only happen after an embargo date so that Indian scientists get first crack at the data.

    NASA actually provided substantial help to ISRO on thermal heating issues for their lunar orbiter, and I have heard that NASA also provided behind the scenes support on MOM as well (although when I asked the MAVEN PI if he had been in touch with them he said that he tried but nobody responded).

    ISRO is paying 70 Crore rupees for DSN access, it's equivalent to $11.49 Million.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: LouScheffer on 09/24/2014 07:17 PM
    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?

    My suspicion--I don't have any hard data on this--that NASA has some kind of agreement with ISRO that they will provide DSN time in return for access to data eventually. But it could also be a goodwill gesture to foster future ties. The cost probably comes out of a DSN discretionary budget.

    [...]

    ISRO is paying 70 Crore rupees for DSN access, it's equivalent to $11.49 Million.
    Given the basic DSN rates and overheads (for which you can find a spreadsheet  on http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/advmiss/index.html , labelled "Aperture Fee Tool"), and an expected mission duration of a year and a half or so, it would seem they are paying roughly the usual rates.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/24/2014 08:38 PM
    An very passionate post on MOM's success by Emily @planetary.org

    http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09240910-reflecting-on-the-success-of-mom.html (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09240910-reflecting-on-the-success-of-mom.html)

    Quite some reflections on the "first country" arguments and how that should indeed be irrelevant in the larger context of ISRO's achievement. Found it quite moving.  :)

    Yes, quite a moving post; thanks for the link.

    I too found this a great moment for India, much like the days of Apollo inspired not only a generation to do great things, but advanced the country as a whole. Of course there needs to be support at home to continue that inspriration, and investment in that generation, but in the infrastructure for the nation to help carry it through future generations.

    Looking forward to those first images!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: albatros68 on 09/24/2014 08:44 PM
    Cheers for ISRO succsess in this mission
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Dalhousie on 09/25/2014 12:32 AM
    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?

    My suspicion--I don't have any hard data on this--that NASA has some kind of agreement with ISRO that they will provide DSN time in return for access to data eventually. But it could also be a goodwill gesture to foster future ties. The cost probably comes out of a DSN discretionary budget.

    [...]

    MOM's primary mission is six months.  For non critical events they can probably use their own tracking stations.  So I don't think they are getting a discount. If the mission is extended no doubt they will pay more.

    ISRO is paying 70 Crore rupees for DSN access, it's equivalent to $11.49 Million.
    Given the basic DSN rates and overheads (for which you can find a spreadsheet  on http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/advmiss/index.html , labelled "Aperture Fee Tool"), and an expected mission duration of a year and a half or so, it would seem they are paying roughly the usual rates.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: rickl on 09/25/2014 01:07 AM
    I neglected to say it last night, but congratulations to India and ISRO.  This was exciting to watch.

    I also remember setting my alarm and getting up early to watch the launch last November.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 01:29 AM
    Orbiter sends back first pictures

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/orbiter-sends-back-first-pictures/article6443567.ece?homepage=true (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/orbiter-sends-back-first-pictures/article6443567.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    The colour camera, on board India’s spacecraft to Mars, has beamed back about 10 pictures of the Red Planet’s surface which show some craters.

    Quote
    The other instruments will become operational one by one in the next few days.

    Quote
    Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) officials said the pictures were of “good quality.” They will be presented to Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday before being released to the press, the officials said.

    So, Big Boss gets to see it first.  ;)

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/25/2014 01:47 AM
    Orbiter sends back first pictures

    Quote
    Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) officials said the pictures were of “good quality.” They will be presented to Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday before being released to the press, the officials said.

    So, Big Boss gets to see it first.  ;)


    Thanks. I was wondering what the hold up was.
    I have no issue with waiting.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Vultur on 09/25/2014 02:32 AM
    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?

    My suspicion--I don't have any hard data on this--that NASA has some kind of agreement with ISRO that they will provide DSN time in return for access to data eventually. But it could also be a goodwill gesture to foster future ties. The cost probably comes out of a DSN discretionary budget.

    [...]

    ISRO is paying 70 Crore rupees for DSN access, it's equivalent to $11.49 Million.
    Given the basic DSN rates and overheads (for which you can find a spreadsheet  on http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/advmiss/index.html , labelled "Aperture Fee Tool"), and an expected mission duration of a year and a half or so, it would seem they are paying roughly the usual rates.

    Is this included in the often mentioned $73 million cost of the mission? What about the launch vehicle? That seems incredibly cheap even with much lower labor costs, etc.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/25/2014 03:56 AM
    For international projects like this, does NASA "donate" the time in a spirit of encouraging more space science?  Or do the projects need to rent time just like anyone else?

    My suspicion--I don't have any hard data on this--that NASA has some kind of agreement with ISRO that they will provide DSN time in return for access to data eventually. But it could also be a goodwill gesture to foster future ties. The cost probably comes out of a DSN discretionary budget.

    [...]

    ISRO is paying 70 Crore rupees for DSN access, it's equivalent to $11.49 Million.
    Given the basic DSN rates and overheads (for which you can find a spreadsheet  on http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/advmiss/index.html , labelled "Aperture Fee Tool"), and an expected mission duration of a year and a half or so, it would seem they are paying roughly the usual rates.

    Is this included in the often mentioned $73 million cost of the mission? What about the launch vehicle? That seems incredibly cheap even with much lower labor costs, etc.



    Here's (http://gadgets.ndtv.com/others/news/indian-mars-mission-to-go-ahead-as-scheduled-on-october-28-428766) the available cost breakdown of mission:
  • Spacecraft and payloads: ₹150 crore ($24 million)
  • Launch vehicle (PSLV-XL): ₹110 crore ($18 million)
  • Augmenting ground stations for mission operations: ₹190 crore ($31 million)
  • Total: ₹450 crore ($73 million)

  • However, I couldn't find any info on whether or not the ₹70 crore ($11 million) (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Nasa-will-support-Mars-mission-claims-Isro/articleshow/23622000.cms) NASA DSN cost is included in the mission cost mentioned above. I guess it might be included in "₹190 crore to augment the ground stations" part.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 03:57 AM
    Mars Orbiter Mission to spawn a generation of smart satellites (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mars-Orbiter-Mission-to-spawn-a-generation-of-smart-satellites/articleshow/43364220.cms)

    Quote
    All through its journey MOM has controlled its temperature and cruised in the direction of Mars with very little prodding from Earth. While speeding at more than 82,000kmph, it never lost direction, thanks to the star-gazing equipment on board.

    "It's not like driving on a highway, you know," says Alex. "In space, everything around you looks the same." To stay on course, MOM used the star-gazer to look at constellations of six to 10 stars every microsecond and compare them with preloaded patterns. "Distant stars are relatively stationary," he says. MOM continuously matched the patterns and, in relation to the constellations, determined its position and direction. That's autonomy.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: NovaSilisko on 09/25/2014 04:01 AM
    Looking back at the beginning of this thread amuses me - so much skepticism that the mission would even happen!

    Great job everyone working on this program.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 04:23 AM
    Quote
    Is this included in the often mentioned $73 million cost of the mission? What about the launch vehicle? That seems incredibly cheap even with much lower labor costs, etc.

    Its quite possible that when you take into account many additional hidden costs associated, the actual amount just might come to be a bit higher than this. Still, I would expect this to be much cheaper than equivalent missions attempted so far for a variety of reasons like lower labour costs, manufacturing costs and also by the fact that this is a technology demonstrator mission with limited scientific payload.

    On the other hand, its easy to see why ISRO tries to highlight this "$73 million" so much if you see the intention behind it.

    1. Its an advertisement. Its like saying "If we can build a reliable Mars orbiter and launch them successfully at such low costs, we can build your spacecrafts with equivalent reliability and launch them dirt cheap too". And like all advertisements, you can expect a wee bit of exaggeration to stress the point.  ;)

    2. For a developing nation like India, with its pressing socio-economic needs, it would be hard for its space agency to sell an expensive excursion to the public. Never mind the long-term benefits that such a mission brings to the economy and society. Never mind the country spends more money on fire-crackers for its festivals. Never mind that much, much greater amount of money gets wasted through graft, inefficiencies and other wastages. People almost always look for the immediate expenditure.

    Just like the remarkable ability of a space program to ignite minds and inspire a new generation, it also has the misfortune of being the favorite target for bashing when it comes to 'cost'. ISRO faces the same challenges in an even greater magnitude in India, and this "$73 million" can be best described as its best weapon in its defence.  :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 04:37 AM
      ;D  ;D  :P

    Mars Orbiter Mission Project chief Arunan’s wife wants him back on earth (http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140925/nation-current-affairs/article/mars-orbiter-mission-project-chief-arunan%E2%80%99s-wife-wants-him)

    (http://d2yhexj5rb8c94.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_node_view/public/isro1_0.jpg)

    Quote
    “Arunan left for his office on Tuesday at 6 am and came back by 11 pm. He then slept intermittently for one-and-a-half hours and by 2 am (Wednesday) he had already left.

    Isros agent Mars The name is Arunan (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Isros-agent-Mars-The-name-is-Arunan/articleshow/43366888.cms)
    Quote
    Insiders say when Isro suggested the idea of launching a Mars mission at Rs450 crore, some foreign scientists smirked. Today, some of them have offered Arunan jobs that he is not keen on. Arunan and his team of 200 scientists virtually lived at mission control in Bangalore for 300 days. "He would come home well past midnight and leave before dawn. I wondered if he was sleepwalking," says Arunan's wife Geetha

    Quote
    How did he fight stress? "Watching Bond movies, of course," laughs Arunan.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/25/2014 05:25 AM
    First picture is here :)

    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter

    Edit:
    Some info (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1556527811237242/?type=1) on this picture:
    Quote
    ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission captures its first image of Mars.
    Taken from a height of 7300 km; with 376 m spatial resolution.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 05:35 AM
    First picture is here :)

    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter

    Wowww... Thanks.. The lower right corner gives me the impression that this has been taken at the periapsis at very high speed. Doesn't the camera have something like an image stabilization?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 05:38 AM
    First picture is here :)

    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter

    My preciousssssssssssssss!!!!!!

    (http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--e7wegG48--/uxmdoaj8ymwajlssxlwm.jpg)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 05:47 AM
    First picture is here :)



    Some info[/url] on this picture:
    Quote
    ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission captures its first image of Mars.
    Taken from a height of 7.3 km; with 376 m spatial resolution.

    7.3 km??  :P wth? zooming?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: NovaSilisko on 09/25/2014 05:55 AM
    FB post has been corrected and now reads 7300 km.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: atnanda on 09/25/2014 05:56 AM
    Syrtis Major crater

    First picture is here :)

    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter

    Edit:
    Some info (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1556527811237242/?type=1) on this picture:
    Quote
    ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission captures its first image of Mars.
    Taken from a height of 7.3 km; with 376 m spatial resolution.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/25/2014 05:57 AM
    First picture is here :)



    Some info[/url] on this picture:
    Quote
    ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission captures its first image of Mars.
    Taken from a height of 7.3 km; with 376 m spatial resolution.

    7.3 km??  :P wth? zooming?

    They corrected now. It's 7300 km ;D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 06:05 AM
    First picture is here :)



    Some info[/url] on this picture:
    Quote
    ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission captures its first image of Mars.
    Taken from a height of 7.3 km; with 376 m spatial resolution.

    7.3 km??  :P wth? zooming?

    They corrected now. It's 7300 km ;D

    lol! Ye Dil mange more!!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: atnanda on 09/25/2014 06:36 AM
    Details on Mars Color Camera @ http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2014/pdf/2449.pdf
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 06:47 AM
    Would love to see the photo from Apoapsis of the whole planet. That would be the most stunning..  8)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/25/2014 06:55 AM
    Syrtis major? As the "first light" (well, of Mars atleast) image? Hahaha. That is brilliant. Someone at ISRO knows their space history.

    a)
    Quote from: Wikipedia article for Syrtis Major Planum
    Syrtis Major was the first documented surface feature of another planet. It was discovered by Christiaan Huygens, who included it in a drawing of Mars in 1659. He used repeated observations of the feature to estimate the length of day on Mars.

    b) Look at the Martian latitude/longitude co-ordinates for Syrtis Major (8.4N, 69.5E), and then look where the same latitude/longitude would put you on Earth. Clever ISRO, very very clever. :D

    Seriously, the timing of all the events has seemed to work out really well. MOI early in the Indian morning, before people go to work - which no doubt helped amplify the effect of the PM's address... and now this. (EDIT: And apparently it's Satish Dhawan's birthday today (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1556545141235509/). Talk about gifts. :D)

    Some info (https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/photos/a.1448404935382864.1073741828.1448364408720250/1556527811237242/?type=1) on this picture:
    Quote
    ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission captures its first image of Mars.
    Taken from a height of 7300 km; with 376 m spatial resolution.

    Height as in above the Martian surface, measured from nadir? 7300 km is greater than Mars' diameter! The geometry of that makes me think they should've been able to get a full-disk image. Why do we have only this bit? Anyone know what the camera's usable Angle-of-View is (corresponding to full sensor area)? Anything >= 50 degrees x 50 degrees would've allowed imagery of the whole disk...

    Wowww... Thanks.. The lower right corner gives me the impression that this has been taken at the periapsis at very high speed. Doesn't the camera have something like an image stabilization?

    Nah.. motion blur would be uniform. For ALL Mars features. Those streaks are a feature of Syrtis Major.

    So, Big Boss gets to see it first.  ;)

    But I don't get why they had to wait in order to show a smartphone and twitter savvy big boss. Especially when they've been so good with social media. I guess they're mining public attention. Waiting for it to wane, and seize another news cycle with the release of images.

    Ok. And I assume ISRO may not be planning to reduce the periapsis any further. I was wondering if they planned something of that sort since their original plan was to achieve a periapsis of 370km as against the 427 km that apparently became their new plan.

    Given their fuel margin, and the criticism from the former ISRO chief, and a few other members of the scientific community regarding the orbit... how long before they consider lowering the periareion? I realise that there may not enough fuel leftover, but if they knocked the periareion down to an altitude where the orbiter experienced some appreciable drag, it'd lower itself. Would this, over time, be enough to lower the per-apsis considerably? I think we get a little "free" braking from Siding Spring's coma too.

    MAVEN's expected EOM involves burn-up on re-entry, and given that the Mangalyaan has lesser fuel, it probably is consigned to the same final fate? I know MAVEN's orbit takes it closer.... periareion was 150 km at capture, and now has been lowered further... but wouldn't there be significant drag all the way out near Mangalyaan's orbit? Especially with Mars' weaker gravity, and atmospheric escape? I haven't found numbers yet.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 07:02 AM
    Wowww... Thanks.. The lower right corner gives me the impression that this has been taken at the periapsis at very high speed. Doesn't the camera have something like an image stabilization?

    Nah.. motion blur would be uniform. For ALL Mars features. Those streaks are a feature of Syrtis Major.


    My bad.. It looked so much like motion blur to me.  :-\

    Cross-checked now about these features in Syrtis Major Planum. Seems to be due to wind. Thanks AJA!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/25/2014 07:28 AM
    MOM effect :)
    http://www.thenewsminute.com/lives/311

    PS: Auto is auto rickshaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/25/2014 07:32 AM
    Why do we have only this bit? Anyone know what the camera's usable Angle-of-View is (corresponding to full sensor area)? Anything >= 50 degrees x 50 degrees would've allowed imagery of the whole disk...
    It's much smaller, resolution at periapsis is stated as ~25m/pixel (http://www.spaceflight101.com/mars-orbiter-mission.html) The sensor is 2k square.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/25/2014 07:55 AM
    http://www.thenewsminute.com/lives/311

    Yeah, but they'll demand 900 crores to go to Mars. Why? Because they won't get a return fare (https://www.facebook.com/salabhak/posts/853674464642661?comment_id=853677721309002&offset=0&total_comments=71)

    To the world space community: Can we PLEASE start work on sample return already? Not a(nother) study, but cutting metal. Please (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120920225730/victorious/images/f/f7/Please_puppy_eyes.jpg)?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 08:08 AM

    Wowww... Thanks.. The lower right corner gives me the impression that this has been taken at the periapsis at very high speed. Doesn't the camera have something like an image stabilization?

    Nah.. motion blur would be uniform. For ALL Mars features. Those streaks are a feature of Syrtis Major.

    I found this image on the net showing feature of Syrtis major that you mentioned that is also present in MOM's image

    (http://astrobob.areavoices.com/astrobob/images/syrtis_major_on_globeCROP.jpg)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Dalhousie on 09/25/2014 08:20 AM
    http://www.thenewsminute.com/lives/311


    To the world space community: Can we PLEASE start work on sample return already? Not a(nother) study, but cutting metal. Please (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120920225730/victorious/images/f/f7/Please_puppy_eyes.jpg)?

    The 2020 rover is supposed to be the first step towards MSR
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/25/2014 08:34 AM
    The 2020 rover is supposed to be the first step towards MSR

    Are we soothing ourselves with that now? I know the 2020 rover's caching samples... but come on. There's nothing in the pipeline to go bring them back. Is there? I'm pretty sure that most scientists would settle for any Martian rock that's lying around, rather than being picky about getting a pristine, subsurface excoriated drill core. But we digress (mea culpa).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 08:40 AM
    It seems to be a upside down snap of mars.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 08:42 AM

    I found this image on the net showing feature of Syrtis major that you mentioned that is also present in MOM's image


    Was about to jump with joy thinking it is second image from MOM.. Darn... Feeling like a 5 yr old kid waiting for toy promised by mom (pun intended)..  :P
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 08:45 AM

    I found this image on the net showing feature of Syrtis major that you mentioned that is also present in MOM's image


    Was about to jump with joy thinking it is second image from MOM.. Darn... Feeling like a 5 yr old kid waiting for toy promised by mom (pun intended)..  :P

    Lol sorry for that.

    http://i.imgur.com/AdKvZem.png
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 09:36 AM
    Maybe this is a slight deviation from the topic as we wait for the next images.. But I was having a lingering question in my mind. Apologies if this had already been discussed here earlier.

    I was checking on Japan's maiden Mars mission, the Nozomi (which ultimately failed). It was a much smaller spacecraft (Total mass:540 kg, Dry mass: 258kg) launched on a less powerful rocket (M-V). Due to these limitations, the mission plan was to build up its velocity through both Earth and Lunar swing-bys over a period of 6 months  and then perform a final burn to Mars. But what caught my eye in this 'frugal' mission was the amount of scientific payload it carried - 33kg, more than double that of MOM ! (Source: Wikipedia)

    Which brings me to the question - what were the factors that limited the payload mass in MOM to 15kg? Considering that we used a standard I-1K satellite bus, was the bus a bit over-weight for the job? Or maybe it was the greater number of redundant systems that ISRO had to build into the spacecraft to ensure success?

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Silmfeanor on 09/25/2014 09:46 AM
    ..image...

    Please, could you attach images instead of embedding them? It happens a lot in this thread, and it breaks page layout  :'(

    Also, congratulations to India for this impressive achievement!
    As noted above, it's a PR victory as well, next to the scientific and technical feat.
    I'm still a bit irked by the comparison regarding MAVEN price though..apples and oranges.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/25/2014 10:08 AM
    MOMs first picture of Mars - I was just trying to find the location on Mars, (MOMs picture in upside-down mode).
    please see the attached jpg..
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 10:35 AM
    MOMs first picture of Mars - I was just trying to find the location on Mars, (MOMs picture in upside-down mode).
    please see the attached jpg..

    Great work. Thanks..  8)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 11:54 AM

    Which brings me to the question - what were the factors that limited the payload mass in MOM to 15kg? Considering that we used a standard I-1K satellite bus, was the bus a bit over-weight for the job? Or maybe it was the greater number of redundant systems that ISRO had to build into the spacecraft to ensure success?

    Initial plan was to carry 25 kg of payload, but later non-availability of some of the the instruments on schedule led to reduction of total payload to 15 kg. So some space remained unutilized on MOM.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 12:10 PM
    ..image...

    Please, could you attach images instead of embedding them? It happens a lot in this thread, and it breaks page layout  :'(

    Also, congratulations to India for this impressive achievement!
    As noted above, it's a PR victory as well, next to the scientific and technical feat.
    I'm still a bit irked by the comparison regarding MAVEN price though..apples and oranges.

    Sure!! No point in comparing MAVEN and MOM. Specs are totally different..
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 12:42 PM

    Which brings me to the question - what were the factors that limited the payload mass in MOM to 15kg? Considering that we used a standard I-1K satellite bus, was the bus a bit over-weight for the job? Or maybe it was the greater number of redundant systems that ISRO had to build into the spacecraft to ensure success?

    Initial plan was to carry 25 kg of payload, but later non-availability of some of the the instruments on schedule led to reduction of total payload to 15 kg. So some space remained unutilized on MOM.

    Thanks antriksh. So I guess PSLV is perfectly capable of sending a greater orbital payload to Mars, and more so if the spacecraft were to follow a more exotic, time-consuming path to Mars like Nozomi did. Maybe not as much as MAVEN, but atleast half as much. (EDIT: for a similar orbit)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Prober on 09/25/2014 12:59 PM
    http://www.thenewsminute.com/lives/311

    Yeah, but they'll demand 900 crores to go to Mars. Why? Because they won't get a return fare (https://www.facebook.com/salabhak/posts/853674464642661?comment_id=853677721309002&offset=0&total_comments=71)

    To the world space community: Can we PLEASE start work on sample return already? Not a(nother) study, but cutting metal. Please (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120920225730/victorious/images/f/f7/Please_puppy_eyes.jpg)?

    who needs to return samples when we should be sending people?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/25/2014 01:37 PM
    http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/q-a-with-isro-chairman-114092500794_1.html

    Quote
    What are the key learnings from this Mission?

    One big learning is our ability to calculate Trans Mars Injection (TMI) and our ability to propagate and see what could be the arrival point has been quite successful. Our ability to understand the influence of the Sun and other planets on the spacecraft as it travels through the heliocentric arc. The other one is precious determination of the position using the deep space station that we have.

    At Chandrayaan times we had spacecrafts with four lakh kms, but here we are looking at spacecraft which would have reached 227 million kms (on September 24). We have upgraded or deep space stations for MOM and now we are clear and confident about its performance.

    In the spacecraft we have built several levels of autonomy. Most of these provisions have been exercised and they are working. These attorney will be useful if we adopt them for future communication and remote sensing satellites.

    Quote
    What is the life of Mangalyaan?

    It would be about six months if you look at it, but may also go for a longer period than expected. We have around 40 kgs of propellant in the spacecraft.

    Quote
    The comet, Siding Spring (which was named after the Australian Siding Spring Observatory, which discovered the comet on January 3, 2013) is expected to pass through on October 19. Will it have any impact on MOM?

    Radhakrishnan: The Science team will meet tomorrow [26 Sep] to have a view on the details of it.

    Kiran Kumar (who replied for this question) We are getting unique opportunity on October 19, when the Siding Spring comet's tail would touch the Mars. Originally it was thought that tail will cover, but as time changed it is expected that the tail will touch the Mars.

    Quote
    When are you planning to set up Joint Mars Working Group with US space agency NASA?

    During Prime Minister's visit to the US, you will hear some news. Soon you will see that happen.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 09/25/2014 01:43 PM
    Quote
    @MarsOrbiter

    A shot of Martian atmosphere. I'm getting better at it. No pressure.

    Altitude of 8449 km according to ISRO FB
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Blackstar on 09/25/2014 01:57 PM
    The 2020 rover is supposed to be the first step towards MSR

    Are we soothing ourselves with that now? I know the 2020 rover's caching samples... but come on. There's nothing in the pipeline to go bring them back.

    But that's how it works. You do it one step at a time.

    But if you would like to contribute, you can write a check to the US Treasury and write "For NASA Mars sample return mission" at the bottom...
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/25/2014 02:15 PM
    Quote
    @MarsOrbiter

    A shot of Martian atmosphere. I'm getting better at it. No pressure.

    Thanks for posting.. Somehow I seem to like this photo more than the first..  ;D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: atnanda on 09/25/2014 04:39 PM
    It definitely looks like that MCC is not calibrated as it is having ghost or double images. Looks at images captured of Earth during earth bound maneuvers. I hope that MCC has not got impacted during the journey and it is just a calibration issue. The concern is also due to the fact that ISRO claims that MoM had taken 5 pics in first 2 hours and they took around 24hrs to release these first 2 pics which seems to be out of focus and not compensating for MoM's motion in the orbit. What happened to other 3 images ? I hope all is well with MCC?

    Quote
    @MarsOrbiter

    A shot of Martian atmosphere. I'm getting better at it. No pressure.

    Altitude of 8449 km according to ISRO FB
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/25/2014 05:20 PM
    Quote from: atnanda
    It definitely looks like that MCC is not calibrated as it is having ghost or double images. Looks at images captured of Earth during earth bound maneuvers. I hope that MCC has not got impacted during the journey and it is just a calibration issue.

    I found the same issue with the first image, in-fact I de-blurred the image before figuring out the location in my earlier post. Hope it is just a calibration issue and all is well with MCC.

    Crosschecking with MGS MOC Atlas..the MOMs first mars image coordinates are 5°N 300°W to 15°S 285°W.

    Wish-list to MOM: Olympus Mons, Valles Marineris .. :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/25/2014 07:38 PM
    So I tried my hand at photoshopping the pics. I know Emily @planetary.org can do a far better job, but I couldn't wait any longer  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/26/2014 01:56 AM

    Which brings me to the question - what were the factors that limited the payload mass in MOM to 15kg? Considering that we used a standard I-1K satellite bus, was the bus a bit over-weight for the job? Or maybe it was the greater number of redundant systems that ISRO had to build into the spacecraft to ensure success?

    Initial plan was to carry 25 kg of payload, but later non-availability of some of the the instruments on schedule led to reduction of total payload to 15 kg. So some space remained unutilized on MOM.

    Thanks antriksh. So I guess PSLV is perfectly capable of sending a greater orbital payload to Mars, and more so if the spacecraft were to follow a more exotic, time-consuming path to Mars like Nozomi did. Maybe not as much as MAVEN, but atleast half as much. (EDIT: for a similar orbit)

    Yes PSLV allows 25 kg of payload to be carried to Mars on the trajectory taken my MOM.

    My understanding is PSLV cannot be the first choice for a scientific Mars mission (MOM is technology demonstration). Ideally, a launcher should impart sufficient velocity to the spacecraft to attain TMI directly, so that when the spacecraft reaches Mars it will have sufficient fuel for a long mission (ideally >2 years). This is not possible with PSLV.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/26/2014 02:34 AM
    Mars Orbiter Mission looks to sniff methane on comet (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Mars-Orbiter-Mission-looks-to-sniff-methane-on-comet/articleshow/43476830.cms)


    Quote
    A committee headed by former Isro chairman U R Rao will decide what kind of study should be carried out. But MOM will definitely examine if the comet has methane. "We all know there is enough water and methane on comets. So that will be one thing we will look for it

    Quote
    We'll know the exact details only when MOM completes the entire orbit/ellipse. We know the position of the comet on October 19, but we can only determine what we can do based on where our spacecraft is

    Quote
    MOM has 40kg of fuel left as against the 20 kg that was thought necessary for its predicted six-month life span. This indicates that the orbiter may have a longer life than thought. if MOM can weather the solar eclipse expected to occur in the Martian orbit in April-May 2015, and maintain its health and course, its life expectancy will increase by a few weeks, allowing India to probe more

    Quote
    MAVEN reached there before us and has completed the orbit around the Red Planet. I have received mails about what they are going to do, and we know what we should. But MOM has to ascertain its position. It will be known in 2-3 days
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/26/2014 03:20 AM
    The folks over at UMSF's forum seem to have a fix on the location in the second image (http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=7898&view=findpost&p=213387). Syrtis Major with the first, and Indus Vallis with the second? AppropriatenessScore++

    I'm not so sure about the pictures being degraded by motion blur, but I'm not an expert. It's a snapshot imager, and that LPSC paper mentions Earth pictures taken with 0.4 msec integration times. Both these photos weren't taken from anywhere close to peri-apsis. As for being out of focus, that'd depend on whether the resolution in those pictures is the best the camera can do. Of course, they've still to commission the payload...

    But if you would like to contribute, you can write a check to the US Treasury and write "For NASA Mars sample return mission" at the bottom...

    I thought NASA was barred from receiving donations. After reading your post, I googled, and found this (http://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/npg_img/N_PD_1210_001G_/N_PD_1210_001G__main.pdf) federal regulation, whose expiration date is April 28, 2015 (http://nodis.gsfc.nasa.gov/npd_sort.cfm) which, deriving its authority from 42 U.S.C.2473(c)(4), National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958, as amended - says:

    Quote
    The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) may accept and utilize monetary gifts, donations, or bequests given as cash, check, or money order, provided they are unsolicited and offered without conditions on their use.
    ...
    These monetary gifts will not be attributed to or associated with any contractual or other legal instruments for performing work or services for the donor or for the donor's interest.

    So, if I did write "For MSR" on the cheque, they'd be obligated to reject it.

    Anyone know if ISRO's also bound by similar regulations?

    who needs to return samples when we should be sending people?

    All for that, but no one wants to send them on a one-way trip just yet, do they? There are volunteers sure, but again, no agency backing.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/26/2014 03:46 AM
    Isro contemplates extending MOM's life (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/432811/isro-contemplates-extending-moms-life.html)

    Quote
    There are two options. The first is to use the fuel to extend the life of the spacecraft beyond six months to one year or more. The second option is to finetune the orbiter’s trajectory to obtain more data.

    The decision on utilisation of fuel will be taken in the next few days with scientists waiting for the orbiter to revolve around Mars at least twice so that there is adequate data to be examined. Each revolution will take 3.2 earth days.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/26/2014 03:58 AM
    The folks over at UMSF's forum seem to have a fix on the location in the second image (http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=7898&view=findpost&p=213387). Syrtis Major with the first, and Indus Vallis with the second? AppropriatenessScore++

    If it is indeed Indus Vallis, I greatly appreciate its appropriateness - very symbolic!! Did they really choose the location on purpose?  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/26/2014 05:32 AM
    It is indeed Indus vallis :)

    Okay here goes one for this forum ( thanks to Machi of UMSF forum to crack this)
    Cross check MOMs 2nd mars image with Google Mars (http://www.google.co.in/mars/).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 09/26/2014 08:29 AM
    Images from MOM (including hi-res versions) are being uploaded here:
    http://isro.org/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/mom-images.aspx
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/26/2014 08:37 AM
    The above website says the second photo is at 20.01N, 31.54E. According to Google, Indus Vallis is at 19.1N, 38.7E.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/26/2014 09:15 AM
    The above website says the second photo is at 20.01N, 31.54E. According to Google, Indus Vallis is at 19.1N, 38.7E.

    Those coordinates would be for farthest point on horizon curve.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/26/2014 09:44 AM
    One more thing to notice is that the Mars images released by ISRO so far are upside-down, any specific reason for that?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/26/2014 10:22 AM
    One more thing to notice is that the Mars images released by ISRO so far are upside-down, any specific reason for that?

    On a lighter vein, it isn't as bad as the last time during Chandryaan-1 when an image of earth got flipped horizontally (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2008/1721.html).  ;)

    Maybe this is just a slight quirk in processing the data as mentioned by Emily in the link, and it may be corrected in subsequent pictures.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/26/2014 05:32 PM
    One more thing to notice is that the Mars images released by ISRO so far are upside-down, any specific reason for that?

    Satellite's upside down.   Happens all the time.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: NovaSilisko on 09/26/2014 10:04 PM
    Spacecraft don't have to obey your prejudiced north-up preconceptions of correct maps!  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Blackstar on 09/27/2014 01:08 AM
    http://io9.com/is-the-focus-on-indias-cheap-mission-to-mars-missing-1639082635

    "Is The Focus On India's "Cheap" Mission To Mars Missing The Point?"

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/27/2014 01:34 AM
    India rox on this mission.  Deal.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/27/2014 01:45 AM
    Two more instruments to be switched on today (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mom-set-to-hunt-for-methane-on-mars/article6451120.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    Spacecraft specialists from the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are getting ready to uplink the commands and switch on two more scientific payloads on India’s spacecraft to Mars on Saturday, according to V. Kesava Raju, Mission Director, Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM).

    Quote
    The two scientific instruments that will become operational on Saturday are the Methane Sensor for Mars and the Thermal Infrared Imaging Spectrometer.

    Quote
    Data would be segregated, processed and disseminated to the scientific community. ISSDC would publish the data on its website

    Quote
    On Sunday, another instrument, called Lyman Alpha Photometer, aboard the orbiter would be switched on
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Gaganaut on 09/27/2014 02:15 AM
    Spacecraft don't have to obey your prejudiced north-up preconceptions of correct maps!  ;)

    Playing to the galleries, by making comments like these will earn you lot of clap, and pat yourself at your back all by yourself..

    Images are downloaded, studied, processed and then if required then only released to the public... nobody questioning anything about satellite and everybody knows these can be up or down or left or right, these images are not directly posted to the web by the Satellites.

    It is the image processed and released by we humans that is being questioned here.. if you still want to proceed with my prejudice about satellites.. then carry on I have no further comments to make.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/27/2014 02:45 AM
    Hey.. I'm sure NovaSilisko was just joking here, and he probably meant everyone in general. After all, I believe none of us would be comfortable seeing our world map upside down. Its all a matter of perspective which we humans grow up with. :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: NovaSilisko on 09/27/2014 04:06 AM
    Spacecraft don't have to obey your prejudiced north-up preconceptions of correct maps!  ;)

    Playing to the galleries, by making comments like these will earn you lot of clap, and pat yourself at your back all by yourself..

    Images are downloaded, studied, processed and then if required then only released to the public... nobody questioning anything about satellite and everybody knows these can be up or down or left or right, these images are not directly posted to the web by the Satellites.

    It is the image processed and released by we humans that is being questioned here.. if you still want to proceed with my prejudice about satellites.. then carry on I have no further comments to make.

    Woah, woah, I was just making a joke. I'm just pointing out how in space there's really no "up" or "down", and that the whole "the images are upside down" thing is really just a result of the common cultural view of north as "up" on maps. I'm not trying to offend   :(
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/27/2014 09:06 AM
    Prime controller of MOM

    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByeD2KVCMAErQTV.jpg)

    (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByeD0jRCEAASvtl.jpg)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Dalhousie on 09/27/2014 10:07 AM
    Spacecraft don't have to obey your prejudiced north-up preconceptions of correct maps!  ;)

    Playing to the galleries, by making comments like these will earn you lot of clap, and pat yourself at your back all by yourself..

    Images are downloaded, studied, processed and then if required then only released to the public... nobody questioning anything about satellite and everybody knows these can be up or down or left or right, these images are not directly posted to the web by the Satellites.

    It is the image processed and released by we humans that is being questioned here.. if you still want to proceed with my prejudice about satellites.. then carry on I have no further comments to make.

    Woah, woah, I was just making a joke. I'm just pointing out how in space there's really no "up" or "down", and that the whole "the images are upside down" thing is really just a result of the common cultural view of north as "up" on maps. I'm not trying to offend   :(

    Not to forget that until comparatively recently most maps of Mars were printed with south at the top.  Some still are.

    http://www.britastro.org/mars/maps.htm

    http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/mars/opposition06.html


    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/27/2014 12:29 PM
    Spacecraft don't have to obey your prejudiced north-up preconceptions of correct maps!  ;)

    Playing to the galleries, by making comments like these will earn you lot of clap, and pat yourself at your back all by yourself. ...

    Learn how to laugh yungsta. 

    Nova up there was making a funny about my  upside down satellite comment.

    He even used one o' them smiley things.  Personally, I've always preferred Bucky Fuller's map of the world.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/27/2014 01:24 PM
    This article is another example of what I've been calling cognitive infiltration.  Here, the technique employed is known as "damning with faint praise".

    http://io9.com/is-the-focus-on-indias-cheap-mission-to-mars-missing-1639082635

    Quote from: the Kinja article
    1) Okay, we get it — India's Mars Orbiter Mission was spectacularly cheap, costing less than the entire budget of the Hollywood movie Gravity. But is this really what we —and India — should be focusing on?

    2) No doubt, this is a stunning achievement for India. ...

    3) "Our program stands out as the most cost-effective," noted Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi back in June. "There is this story of our Mars mission costing less than the Hollywood movie Gravity... Our scientists have shown the world a new paradigm of engineering and the power of imagination."

    4) Clearly, India is doing something right, and they deserve to be commended...

    5) First, accounting standards are not the same across agencies such as ISRO and, say, [just to pick a USG Agency at random] NASA ...

    6) The "cheapness" was forced upon ISRO because of earlier failures. ...

    This is just the beginning... "That pay-off is long-term, and it cannot be easily quantified. But it is huge."

    1) Absolutely, cost is the main thing that should be focused on.  This author has it entirely wrong in this regard.

    Elon Musk has suggested a ticket price "to Mars", not to TMI (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35529.msg1251784#msg1251784)], of $500K.  If there is to be permanent human settlement off planet, then cost is the driver.  Not technology.  Not the number of volunteers. (NSoV) Not country of origin.

    2) It is a stunning achievement.  There's no other way to describe it.  It is a textbook example of how applied theory works.  At this time in humanity's directed evolution, aerospace information is cheap.  Use it correctly and appropriately, and you get a successful mission.

    Still, past productivity is no indicator of future productivity.  They will have to carefully monitor egos so as to ensure the success of their second mission.

    3) The "paradigm of engineering" speaks quietly to my observation of the low cost of information these days.

    4) They do indeed, and not faintly, as this author insists in his opening words.

    5) This is the worst part of the cognitive infiltration.  There's a lot of discussion here about how the USAF doesn't really know the cost of launching and AtlasV, due to the directed evolution of proprietary cost information.  The truth of the matter is that the simple equation is income minus revenue equals profit.  When income and profit are proprietary, the equation is irreparably broken.

    Our tax and accounting system is, for practical purposes, such as colonizing Luna and Mars, an impediment to the accomplishment of those goals.

    6) More cognitive infiltration.  There is no "forcing".  The "cheapness" is directly related to salaries.  Period.

    As always, when a commentator wants to disparage a program it is called "cheap".  when the intent is to praise a program, it's called "cost effective".

    On NPR this morning, they suggested that an Indian engineer makes about $1K per month, compared to the US engineer at $10K per month.  The fact of the matter is that when an Indian engineers sez "F=ma", it has the same value as when an American engineer sez "F=ma".

    It is clinically interesting to see how the titans of US industry unanimously call for a virtual elimination of minimum wage here, sending their jobs overseas, yet whine bitterly when the rest of the world outperforms them on cost. 

    Our titans pretend not to understand that Mangalyaan cost a tenth of MAVEN, and that salaries probably play the biggest role in that comparison.  Our aerospace titans will also compare MAVEN, built on a half century of experience with Mangalyaan, a first effort, and assert that it is a fair comparison.

    Yay India. 

    Solo dicendo.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/27/2014 01:36 PM

    On NPR this morning, they suggested that an Indian engineer makes about $1K per month, compared to the US engineer at $10K per month.  The fact of the matter is that when an Indian engineers sez "F=ma", it has the same value as when an American engineer sez "F=ma".

    A few flaws in your responses, but this one stands out the most (even though there are some qualitative reasonings later).

    We can all say F=ma, the even teach us the meaning in schools.
    It's how one applies it, the experience to work it effectively, chealy, and safely, and to bring about the desired (or expected) outcome that really matters.

    India took a big first step along that path (BEO exploration to Mars), but eventually, their workers will demand higher salaries as well (especially since they're performance in this matter has shone through). So in the end, they will likely have a comparable salary base to others in this field (or they will be lost to companies outside of India who see their talent). That's how this 'game' is played. But the value of that employee also helps the rest, because they will likely spend a large portion of it domestically (or have it taken away in the form of taxation), and that empowers a nation a a whole to do better. Then its a question again of HOW those funds are applied: to enrich the education of the NEXT generation to do even better things. That's how the first paragraph comes full circle.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/27/2014 02:03 PM

    On NPR this morning, they suggested that an Indian engineer makes about $1K per month, compared to the US engineer at $10K per month.  The fact of the matter is that when an Indian engineers sez "F=ma", it has the same value as when an American engineer sez "F=ma".

    A few flaws in your responses, but this one stands out the most (even though there are some qualitative reasonings later).

    We can all say F=ma, they even teach us the meaning in schools.

    It's how one applies it, the experience to work it effectively, cheaply, and safely, and to bring about the desired (or expected) outcome that really matters.

    Robert:  India got to Mars, "effectively, cheaply, and safely".  On the first try.  Unqualified praise is due.

    The Kinja article is disparaging the "cheaply" part with no cause.  Where is my error?  Their engineers are paid a tenth of what ours are.

    I don't believe there are any logical flaws in my responses and I'm aware that I'm not popular amongst our titans of industry.

    The Indians are exactly as human as are Americans.  Their political situation is subject to evolving the same flaws that we have evolved here.  What happens in the future is not subject to speculation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/27/2014 02:31 PM
    Maybe I'm a bit impatient here. ISRO seems to be taking its time in releasing new images. I guess that's because its weekend now and the limited available workforce is busy testing other instruments, and maybe even calibrating the MCC to take better pictures next time.

    The child in me isn't satisfied yet..  ;D 
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 09/28/2014 01:50 AM
    It's been mentioned that some previous Mars missions have also used methane sensors - does anyone have any links to sensory-data-based maps generated from them? It would be interesting to be able to compare MOM's methane results with those of previous missions.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/28/2014 02:45 AM
    It's been mentioned that some previous Mars missions have also used methane sensors - does anyone have any links to sensory-data-based maps generated from them?
    No previous orbiter mission had sensors specifically intended to detect methane. The only claimed detection from a spacecraft was ESA's Mars express PFS. See http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032063310002138 (pdf from ESA at ftp://ssols01.esac.esa.int/pub/workshops/09_MEX_VEX_DW_June_2011/PFS/EXTRA_MATERIAL_WORKSHOP/PAPERS_PFS/PAPERS_ON_CH4/Geminale_2011.pdf)

    There were also some claimed detections from ground based telescopes, you can find references in that paper.

    By far the most sensitive methane detector sent to Mars is Curiosity's SAM. The non-detection by SAM casts significant doubt on the previous detections. While the claim has been made that methane is variable in time and location, the expected lifetime and mixing of methane in Mars atmosphere would make it difficult to reconcile the previous reported levels with the SAM results. Of course, planetary science is pretty good at throwing curve balls...

    It's worth noting that MOM's methane sensor was manifested before the SAM results.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Dalhousie on 09/28/2014 04:19 AM
    It's been mentioned that some previous Mars missions have also used methane sensors - does anyone have any links to sensory-data-based maps generated from them?
    No previous orbiter mission had sensors specifically intended to detect methane. The only claimed detection from a spacecraft was ESA's Mars express PFS. See http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032063310002138 (pdf from ESA at ftp://ssols01.esac.esa.int/pub/workshops/09_MEX_VEX_DW_June_2011/PFS/EXTRA_MATERIAL_WORKSHOP/PAPERS_PFS/PAPERS_ON_CH4/Geminale_2011.pdf)

    There were also some claimed detections from ground based telescopes, you can find references in that paper.

    By far the most sensitive methane detector sent to Mars is Curiosity's SAM. The non-detection by SAM casts significant doubt on the previous detections. While the claim has been made that methane is variable in time and location, the expected lifetime and mixing of methane in Mars atmosphere would make it difficult to reconcile the previous reported levels with the SAM results. Of course, planetary science is pretty good at throwing curve balls...

    It's worth noting that MOM's methane sensor was manifested before the SAM results.

    Rumour has it that there might be more coming about on atmospheric methane and SAM in the near future.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/28/2014 04:49 AM
    Ready for Jan 2016? ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/28/2014 05:16 AM
    Ready for Jan 2016? ;)

    Thanks antriksh! A couple of questions came to my mind (Maybe it makes more sense to ask this in the separate thread for the follow-on mission, but I'm just posting it below)..

    1. I remember reading that one disadvantage of using GSLV-II for a Mars mission was that it cannot make the coasting that PSLV did during MOM launch to adjust its Argument of Perigee (AOP), probably because PSLV has a separate 3rd and 4th stages while GSLV-II has a single non-restartable 3rd stage. I guess the mentioned payload capability take this into account?
    (EDIT:  Would bundling an additional hypergolic upper stage with the spacecraft be of some use here, something in the lines of PAM-G? Spacecraft+Upper Stage does the coasting, then US fire multiple times for any necessary orbital adjustments and then do TMI and separate.. Not sure how much of sense it makes considering we are talking of bundling a less efficient hypergol on top of a more efficient cryo, just a thought that came to my mind..)

    2. Is the mentioned circular orbit equatorial? For a polar or high inclination orbit like MAVEN, the payload will be lower?

    EDIT:  As per news reports, former ISRO chairman U.R.Rao had mentioned recently that ISRO might target the 2018 launch window for the next Mars mission as 2016 is too close to plan a good science oriented mission. So we may have to wait for the 2018 then.

    Meanwhile, there are reports that the Chinese might attempt their mission on 2016. As per reports in Xinhua, they want to make it better than MOM as they got left behind this time (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-09/25/c_133671880.htm)..  ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/28/2014 05:22 AM
    Rumour has it that there might be more coming about on atmospheric methane and SAM in the near future.
    IIRC, they have a pre-enrichment technique that wasn't used in the primary mission. That should either finally detect some or push the upper limits down to the sub ppb level. Either would be newsworthy. Or maybe it's finally methane season in Gale ;)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/28/2014 07:37 AM
    Ready for Jan 2016? ;)

    It has been mentioned before that GSLV Mk II won't be able to put the spacecraft on a direct-to-Mars trajectory and slingshot manoeuvres, although less as compared to PSLV, would still be required. The stats that you posted, do they correspond to dry mass or the mass at launch?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/28/2014 08:30 AM
    Ready for Jan 2016? ;)

    It has been mentioned before that GSLV Mk II won't be able to put the spacecraft on a direct-to-Mars trajectory and slingshot manoeuvres, although less as compared to PSLV, would still be required. The stats that you posted, do they correspond to dry mass or the mass at launch?

    I guess it is the mass in the specified Martian orbit. For comparison, MOM should be weighing around 540 kg in Mars orbit now (dry mass + remaining propellant).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: robertross on 09/28/2014 11:48 AM

    On NPR this morning, they suggested that an Indian engineer makes about $1K per month, compared to the US engineer at $10K per month.  The fact of the matter is that when an Indian engineers sez "F=ma", it has the same value as when an American engineer sez "F=ma".

    A few flaws in your responses, but this one stands out the most (even though there are some qualitative reasonings later).

    We can all say F=ma, they even teach us the meaning in schools.

    It's how one applies it, the experience to work it effectively, cheaply, and safely, and to bring about the desired (or expected) outcome that really matters.

    Robert:  India got to Mars, "effectively, cheaply, and safely".  On the first try.  Unqualified praise is due.
    100% agree

    Quote
    The Kinja article is disparaging the "cheaply" part with no cause.  Where is my error?  Their engineers are paid a tenth of what ours are.

    I don't believe there are any logical flaws in my responses and I'm aware that I'm not popular amongst our titans of industry.

    I am saying that your explanation by using F=ma as an argument is flawed (but not 100% wrong).
    But no matter, let's focus on the mission, shall we?  ;)
    Quote
    The Indians are exactly as human as are Americans.  Their political situation is subject to evolving the same flaws that we have evolved here.  What happens in the future is not subject to speculation.
    I agree with all but the last sentence, but that's personal opinion (as is all of our discussion, I suppose).

    Keep going India!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/28/2014 12:00 PM
    Now that the probe has made it to mars orbit, What could be the possible future hazards it and the ISRO team may have to face?

     I am thinking:

    -Thermal management avoiding a Chandrayaan like scenario, but I suppose Mars orbit thermal environment is much more benign than moon orbit.

    -Eclipses and power management.

    -Comet: collision with dust particles and instrument contamination.

    -Radiation

    ,,,,, anything else?


    edited later:

    extended autonomous operation / hibernation during communicaton blackouts,/ whiteouts due to earth - sun -mars geometry.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Bob Shaw on 09/28/2014 12:56 PM
    The reaction wheels will fail; the batteries will wear out; the software may be buggy.

    It could still last years, though - but I doubt if we'll see the longevity of MGS, Odyssey, or Mars Express. Even if it only survives a few months, the whole effort is a triumph by any standards - roll on the next mission with a *bigger* payload, says I.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/28/2014 06:16 PM
    extended autonomous operation / hibernation during communicaton blackouts,/ whiteouts due to earth - sun -mars geometry.

    Why is any of this a hazard to the spacecraft? With that light-time delay, pretty much everything done by the spacecraft is autonomous operation. The rest of the stuff you identified is par for course for any satellite I'd have thought. Cometary dust impacts might hasten the MMOD aging, but Earth satellites too... undergo that.

    Spacecraft don't have to obey your prejudiced north-up preconceptions of correct maps!  ;)

    Had to mention One (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8zBC2dvERM), and a two (http://xkcd.com/977/) :D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/28/2014 07:27 PM
    Why is any of this a hazard to the spacecraft? With that light-time delay, pretty much everything done by the spacecraft is autonomous operation.
    Several spacecraft have been lost because commanding or programming errors (sometimes combined with other circumstances that would normally be recoverable) made it impossible to communicate with them. This isn't unique to interplanetary missions, but longer communication delays and weaker radio signals increase the risks.

    On many spacecraft, just going into safe mode ends up using a lot of propellant, and the longer it takes to recover, the more you use.
    Quote
    Cometary dust impacts might hasten the MMOD aging, but Earth satellites too... undergo that.
    As noted in http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31205.msg1253253#msg1253253 the risk is believed to be pretty minimal.

    Aside the stuff mentioned earlier, it seems like propellant and random or aging related component failures should be the limiting factors.

    The I-K bus which MOM is (partially?) based on is supposed to have a nominal lifetime of 7-12 years, so it wouldn't be a surprise if the basic spacecraft could last many years. The expected lifetime of individual instruments might be shorter.

    They ended up with a pretty good propellant margin, but some comments indicate they might use some of that to adjust the orbit for more interesting science. OTOH, their propellant consumption estimates for normal operations are probably conservative.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/29/2014 02:17 AM
    Ready for Jan 2016? ;)

    Thanks antriksh! A couple of questions came to my mind (Maybe it makes more sense to ask this in the separate thread for the follow-on mission, but I'm just posting it below)..

    1. I remember reading that one disadvantage of using GSLV-II for a Mars mission was that it cannot make the coasting that PSLV did during MOM launch to adjust its Argument of Perigee (AOP), probably because PSLV has a separate 3rd and 4th stages while GSLV-II has a single non-restartable 3rd stage. I guess the mentioned payload capability take this into account?
    (EDIT:  Would bundling an additional hypergolic upper stage with the spacecraft be of some use here, something in the lines of PAM-G? Spacecraft+Upper Stage does the coasting, then US fire multiple times for any necessary orbital adjustments and then do TMI and separate.. Not sure how much of sense it makes considering we are talking of bundling a less efficient hypergol on top of a more efficient cryo, just a thought that came to my mind..)

    2. Is the mentioned circular orbit equatorial? For a polar or high inclination orbit like MAVEN, the payload will be lower?

    EDIT:  As per news reports, former ISRO chairman U.R.Rao had mentioned recently that ISRO might target the 2018 launch window for the next Mars mission as 2016 is too close to plan a good science oriented mission. So we may have to wait for the 2018 then.

    Meanwhile, there are reports that the Chinese might attempt their mission on 2016. As per reports in Xinhua, they want to make it better than MOM as they got left behind this time (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-09/25/c_133671880.htm)..  ;)

    1. GSLV trajectory will be modified for sure and figure takes that into account. PAM-G can be used based on the trajectory retirements, but its use will reduce payload to mars orbit.

    2. The figures I guess are for minimum energy insertion parameters.

    I also feel it would be better to target a orbiter+lander mission in 2018. Chandrayaan-2 lander experience + SRE + Manned capsule re entry mission will help SRO to design Mars landing missions. I also wish once MOM mission is complete, ISRO can try a controlled entry into martian atmosphere. The data would be critical for designing Mars entry.   

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/29/2014 02:18 AM
    Ready for Jan 2016? ;)

    It has been mentioned before that GSLV Mk II won't be able to put the spacecraft on a direct-to-Mars trajectory and slingshot manoeuvres, although less as compared to PSLV, would still be required. The stats that you posted, do they correspond to dry mass or the mass at launch?

    dry mass in martian orbit.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/29/2014 12:48 PM
    Robert:  India got to Mars, "effectively, cheaply, and safely".  On the first try.  Unqualified praise is due.

    100% agree

    Great!

    Quote
    The Kinja article is disparaging the "cheaply" part with no cause.  Where is my error?...

    Quote from: Robert
    I am saying that your explanation by using F=ma as an argument is flawed (but not 100% wrong).  But no matter, let's focus on the mission, shall we?

    Agree on the focus, but need to elaborate on my metaphorical analogy.  What I'm getting at is that the information content, celestial mechanics in this case, has no relationship whatsoever with salary.

    All too often in American politics, the shallow reasoning from our "leaders" for the proles is, "Look at how much money we're spending!  Of course what we're doing is important!"  The Kinja article subtly subtly emphasizes the budgetary "size matters" argument, by disparaging the cost of the Indian mission.  Our titans of the aerospace industry "don't like competition", as they have testified, and they are voicing the common meme touted most loudly by our so called conservatives.

    In the larger economic picture, it turns out, not too unexpectedly, that globalization has allowed US companies to outsource their manufacturing to the developing nation, and our manufacturing base has been crushed, along with the very real decline in personal income.

    As you know, people are clamoring for a livable minimum wage, but industry insists on making the false argument that this would cut into profit.  For some reason, industry overlooks that a rising tide raises all boats.  A healthy US economy would be very profitable becasue higher wages get funneled back onto the economy, instead of funneled to offshore accounts, where nothing is manufactured.

    Our aerospace industry is heavily subsidized; so too, no doubt, is India's.  Clearly, our costs could be better controlled.  Accomplishment in this field is better predicted by knowledge, and not predicted by salary.

    Quote from: JF
    India's ... political situation is subject to evolving the same flaws that we have evolved here.  What happens in the future is not subject to speculation.

    Quote from: Robert
    I agree with all but the last sentence, but that's personal opinion (as is all of our discussion, I suppose).

    Keep going India!

    Thanks too, for the gentlest of grammatical dings.

    Of course what happens in the future is subject to speculation.  Even tho that's what I wrote, that's not quite what I meant.

    I was responding to your "That's how this 'game' is played (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29440.msg1263102#msg1263102)" aside.

    No doubt that over time, as the standard of living rises in India, so too will salaries.  Which gets back to globalization.  If the world should become more equally salaried, then the world's industries can concentrate of quality manufacturing, instead of the current game of finding the lowest cost "slave" labor.

    Speculate away, but it is not a foregone conclusion that India will evolve the same flaws in their democratic government that we have evolved.  Not that you said it was a foregone conclusion, but you know that's what's being thought in many US boardrooms.

    Yay India!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 09/29/2014 12:51 PM
    Quote
    Regional dust storm activities over northern hemisphere of Mars - captured by Mars Color Camera on-board ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission.

    The image was taken from an altitude of 74500 km from the surface of Mars.

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/29/2014 01:13 PM
    Quote
    Regional dust storm activities over northern hemisphere of Mars - captured by Mars Color Camera on-board ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission.

    The image was taken from an altitude of 74500 km from the surface of Mars.

    There you have Mars in all her glory folks!! This was what I was waiting for all along.. Thank you ISRO!!  8)

    (EDIT: And a BIG thanks @sultanofhyd... Cheers..  ;) )
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/29/2014 01:34 PM
    Quote
    Regional dust storm activities over northern hemisphere of Mars - captured by Mars Color Camera on-board ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission.

    The image was taken from an altitude of 74500 km from the surface of Mars.

    Coool!!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: 0orionN on 09/29/2014 01:43 PM
    I see outline of  the 'Indian subcontinent' in the latest pic...
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/29/2014 02:06 PM
    I see outline of  the 'Indian subcontinent' in the latest pic...

    True!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/29/2014 02:45 PM
    Andy Weir would like this view :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 09/29/2014 03:47 PM
    Hi-res version
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/29/2014 05:04 PM
    Hi-res version
    What a wonderful image!

    FWIW, it appears ISRO is posting all the released pics at full res on http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/mom-images.aspx#0

    I hope they will do regular release rather than just a few "first time" shots... none of the other orbiters really give us this kind of view.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 09/29/2014 05:47 PM
    Hi-res version

    Breathtaking! Waiting for the Martian moon images now. Any plans to capture those?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 09/29/2014 06:15 PM
    none of the other orbiters really give us this kind of view.

    So the elongated orbit of MOM that was considered a limitation of the mission does give it one advantage over the others, afterall - a chance to take global snaps of Mars!!  ;D

    And we here are not the only ones thrilled by it. Here is the latest post by Emily on it.
    http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09290843-mars-orbiter-mission-delivers.html
     (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/09290843-mars-orbiter-mission-delivers.html)
    Quote
    If the Mars Orbiter Mission does nothing else but return to us a variety of global images of Mars from different positions and phases, the mission will be a great success, as far as I'm concerned. It'll be a data set unlike any generated by any other mission, and the single-frame photos should find their way into lots of books and magazines, informing the public perception of Mars for years to come.

    I really do hope that the newspapers here in India carry this image in their front pages tomorrow..  8)

    ( EDIT: And by the way, it seems this latest image has the North-side up finally  ;) )
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: abhishek on 09/30/2014 02:38 AM
    If they can use a 0.8 m resolution camera on cartosat,why didn't they use the same on MOM ?

    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 09/30/2014 03:17 AM
    If they can use a 0.8 m resolution camera on cartosat,why didn't they use the same on MOM ?

    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast

    Because of following restrictions: 1) Payload (cartosat pan cam weighs 120 kg) and 2) Power. Right now what we are getting is the best with a 1.27 kg camera.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 09/30/2014 06:18 AM
    I think the most interesting thing now, aside from the methane experiment, is what MOM can do to observe Siding Spring's flyby.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ugordan on 09/30/2014 07:04 AM
    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast

    That's a mosaic generated from many images, not a single picture. Apples and oranges.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/30/2014 07:15 AM
    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast
    That isn't "a" picture, it's a carefully assembled and processed mosaic of many images. Individual Viking orbiter frames looked something like this http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/vo1_022a54.html

    The images from MOM so far single frames, presumably pretty much as taken.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 09/30/2014 04:44 PM
    I really do hope that the newspapers here in India carry this image in their front pages tomorrow..  8)

    Well, I'm not going to say                    ...

    We eradicated polio; <rant> so now I think we should now take on the current mandarins of Indian corporate media. In ascending order of disbelief.... this image was only featured on Page 7 of ToI, Page 4 of The Hindu, and NOT AT ALL in TNIE! At this point, I'm fully convinced that they're only going to feature pictures on Page 1, if there's a pattern of craters, which, due to pareidolia - looks like "ॐ". #~@/$ !!!</rant>
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/30/2014 06:33 PM
    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast
    That isn't "a" picture, it's a carefully assembled and processed mosaic of many images. Individual Viking orbiter frames looked something like this http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/vo1_022a54.html

    The images from MOM so far single frames, presumably pretty much as taken.

    Are you saying that this is the best 'Single frame global view' Image ever taken ? ??? (If it is indeed single frame because we were told many were taken but only few are released.. )
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ugordan on 09/30/2014 06:40 PM
    Are you saying that this is the best 'Single frame global view' Image ever taken ? ??? (If it is indeed single frame because we were told many were taken but only few are released.. )

    Rosetta took a comparable global image of Mars during its flyby. As for which one is "best", well, the MOM one is a little too garish and contrast-enhanced for my liking...
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 09/30/2014 06:45 PM
    Now in 3d  :D
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 09/30/2014 08:59 PM
    Are you saying that this is the best 'Single frame global view' Image ever taken ? ???
    No, I didn't say that. The point I was trying to make is that the comparison to a heavily processed mosaic isn't very meaningful. If ISRO wants to, they could probably do rasters at medium altitudes to produce higher resolution mosaics.

    That said, MOM will probably produce some of the best images in this category, because most cameras sent to Mars are more specialized.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/30/2014 11:43 PM
    ...north-up preconceptions...
    ... pat yourself at your back all by yourself. ...

    Nova up there was making a funny about ... o' them smiley things.  Personally, I've always preferred Bucky Fuller's map of the world.

    Just dawned on me that you could draw a  similar map of Luna and Mars.  There's no preconceived rule as to tha arrangements of the triangle.  You modify the triangles as dictated by the either randomness, or, in the case of Coruscant, intentionality of the underlying continental structure.  Note that Fuller introduced some dorky triangles in his map of Eaarth.

    Ladies and germs.  I present... [wait for it...] the Dymaxiom Map!  [smattering of applause and several bemused looks.]

    http://www.bfi.org/about-fuller/big-ideas/dymaxion-world/dymaxion-map

    So I charge my Indian cohort.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 09/30/2014 11:43 PM
    Solo dicendo.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 10/01/2014 01:37 AM
    The Great One gives His congratulations   8)

    https://twitter.com/MarsOrbiter/status/516124010942189568

    (http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3aca8746b9c5b8174b4c4760f7351f91?convert_to_webp=true)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/01/2014 04:51 AM
    U.S., India to Collaborate on Mars Exploration, Earth-Observing Mission

    http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/september/us-india-to-collaborate-on-mars-exploration-earth-observing-mission/ (http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/september/us-india-to-collaborate-on-mars-exploration-earth-observing-mission/)
    Quote
    While attending the International Astronautical Congress, the two space agency leaders met to discuss and sign a charter that establishes a NASA-ISRO Mars Working Group to investigate enhanced cooperation between the two countries in Mars exploration. They also signed an international agreement that defines how the two agencies will work together on the NASA-ISRO Synthetic Aperture Radar (NISAR) mission, targeted to launch in 2020.
    Title: Re: PSLV C25, ISRO Mars Mission, October 21, 2013
    Post by: vyoma on 10/01/2014 09:48 AM
    Can someone expand the acronyms in the ISRO brochure picture below? I didn't get SPDM (in the context of the Solar Arrays), CASS, SPSS (I assume it's Solar Position Sensor ___ ?), LE (as in the 440 N thruster), and CCSDS, BDH, SSR, TTC (Telemetry and Telecommand?) in the context of communications...

    SPDM: Solar Panel Drive Mechanism
    CASS: Coarse Analogue Sun Sensor
    SPSS: Solar Panel Sun Sensor
    LE: Liquid Engine
    CCSDS: Consultative Committee for Space Data Systems (a standard)
    BDH: Baseband Data Handling
    SSR: Solid State Recorder
    TTC: Telemetry, Tracking and Commanding


    http://www.isro.org/mars/spacecraft.aspx
    http://www.isro.org/satellites/mars-orbiter-spacecraft.aspx
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 10/01/2014 01:29 PM
    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast

    That's a mosaic generated from many images, not a single picture. Apples and oranges.

    A totally unfortunate and inaccurate characterization.  Both images are of Mars.

    Here's an image of Mars from 1877 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mars_observation#mediaviewer/File:Trouvelot_-_The_planet_Mars_-_1877.jpg)

    Compare and contrast.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: JohnFornaro on 10/01/2014 01:37 PM
    Quote from: Buckminster Fuller Institute
    Please send inquiries regarding use and licensing the Fuller Projection to licensing@bfi.org.

    Sadly, BF decided to retain all intellectual rights to his invention, which has restricted and will continue to restrict the use of a valuable mapping technology.

    His estate is not gaining much, and the world loses much.  My cohort needn't bother.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 10/01/2014 02:54 PM
    Voices of ISRO social media, and MOM:
    http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/others/Follow-me/articleshow/43738536.cms

    If you guys are reading this thread: Good going guys, two thumbs up :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 10/01/2014 04:57 PM
    Voices of ISRO social media, and MOM:
    http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/others/Follow-me/articleshow/43738536.cms

    If you guys are reading this thread: Good going guys, two thumbs up :)

    Good chance that they did an open question answer session (http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/) on Reddit as well(known as AMA for AskMeAnything ) :)

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/01/2014 05:17 PM
    Cross-posting a question regarding sterilization of MOM from another thread, as the original thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35747.0) was dedicated to covering the cost-aspects. I hope this is fine..  :)


    1) Being able to Launch -- Success
    2) Escape Earth Gravity -- Success
    3) Enter into Helio-Centric Orbit towards Mars -- Success
    4) Arrive at Mars -- Success
    5) Enter into an elliptical Mars Orbit in full autonomous operating mode -- Success (the signal propagation delay between Mars and Earth is an average of 12 mins)
    6) Observe Mars -- Ongoing
    7) Crash on to Mars -- 6 to 9 months from now


    Crash on to Mars?? Are you really sure that is an objective? Never mind the question of whether any scientific knowledge can be gained out of doing it, but did the spacecraft undergo the level of microbial decontamination that is required of a Mars landing? If not, with the tenuous atmosphere of Mars, isn't it probable that parts of the spacecraft will survive re-entry and bring earth's microbes to its surface? This is not Moon we are speaking about, as the question of Mars's capability to sustain microbial life isn't resolved yet. The worst nightmare that can happen to our efforts to find answers for Mars would be to find earth's microbes colonizing it.  :-\

    MOM is going to crash on Mars sometime in the future anyway (unless it is recovered, which is probably unlikely). By doing it at the end of the mission, its in a controlled fashion into a known location. It also removes any possibility of creating future orbital debris around Mars.

    Ok. Makes sense. I thought they might try to push it to a higher orbit instead towards the end. But the lingering question in my mind is whether MOM was sterilized to the required extent before launch? If I am not wrong, Mars landers are sterilized to a greater degree to ensure there is no microbial contamination from earth. MOM's case isn't a controlled landing and maybe most parts would burn up, but isn't there a fair chance that many parts would survive reentry, with microbes still alive (if it weren't sterilized to the required extent), considering the tenuous Martian atmosphere?

    Maybe the question itself is a bit stupid, as MOM crashing to Mars was a distinct possibility if MOI had gone wrong, so ISRO would have needed to ensure that MOM was sterilized anyways. But the pictures of technicians working with MOM with their uncovered hands, faces and feet in ISRO's clean room comes to my mind ( contrasting with those of fully covered NASA technicians in 'bunny suits' working on MAVEN in NASA images). Is the sterilization process done by ISRO after all that?

    PS: Pasting a few relevant links regarding de-contamination of NASA's Mars spacecrafts
    http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mer/technology/is_planetary_protection.html (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mer/technology/is_planetary_protection.html)
    http://www.vox.com/2014/5/20/5734360/nasas-curiosity-rover-may-have-carried-bacteria-to-mars (http://www.vox.com/2014/5/20/5734360/nasas-curiosity-rover-may-have-carried-bacteria-to-mars)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: mr. mark on 10/01/2014 06:56 PM
    Is it just me or do the low res. pictures look like paintings and not pictures. Can't they get better resolution from their pictures.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ugordan on 10/01/2014 07:03 PM
    Is it just me or do the low res. pictures look like paintings and not pictures. Can't they get better resolution from their pictures.

    Bayer pattern used for color in the camera can produce such artifacts. It also doesn't help that the image appears to be contrast-enhanced, this will only bring out such artifacts.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 10/01/2014 10:10 PM
    Quote
    7) Crash on to Mars -- 6 to 9 months from now
    Is there a source for this? I don't recall seeing this in any of the ISRO materials, but could easily have missed it. They do mention a possible extended mission after the nominal 6 months.

    It seems odd to me: AFAIK no NASA Mars orbiters have been intentionally de-orbited, and MOM has relatively little propellant to spare. The MOM orbit seems like it shouldn't decay for a long time, though perturbations might be an issue.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 10/02/2014 12:09 PM
    1. I remember reading that one disadvantage of using GSLV-II for a Mars mission was that it cannot make the coasting that PSLV did during MOM launch to adjust its Argument of Perigee (AOP), probably because PSLV has a separate 3rd and 4th stages while GSLV-II has a single non-restartable 3rd stage. I guess the mentioned payload capability take this into account?

    Yes, in order to use GSLV Mk2 or Mk3 for future Mars missions, ISRO needs to qualify restart capability of CE-7.5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE-7.5) and CE-20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE-20). Here's an excerpt from one of the news articles:
    Quote
    In order to utilise the GSLV and GSLV Mark III, the cryogenic engines on those rockets will need ‘multi-start’ capability so that they can be shut down after one burn, undergo a period of coasting and restart, noted Dr. Adimurthy.

    Starting, shutting down and restarting a cryogenic engine in space is complicated, noted S. Ramakrishnan, who retired recently as director of the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, ISRO’s lead centre for launch vehicle development, and earlier headed the Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre that develops liquid propellant engines needed for the space programme.

    Restart capability has not yet been demonstrated with the GSLV’s cryogenic engine. As for the cryogenic engine being developed for the Mark III, “once we do the initial engine-level tests, we can look at introducing the restart capability,” he remarked




    (EDIT:  Would bundling an additional hypergolic upper stage with the spacecraft be of some use here, something in the lines of PAM-G? Spacecraft+Upper Stage does the coasting, then US fire multiple times for any necessary orbital adjustments and then do TMI and separate.. Not sure how much of sense it makes considering we are talking of bundling a less efficient hypergol on top of a more efficient cryo, just a thought that came to my mind..)

    Yes, another alternative would be to use PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G) upper stage on top of GSLV Mk2 or GSLV Mk3 to do the TMI.
    Quote
    ISRO has designed and ground-tested a ‘Payload Assist Module’ using a liquid-propellant engine that powers the PSLV’s fourth stage. This module had originally been developed so that the GSLV could launch Russia's Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS) satellites, a proposal that ultimately did not materialise.

    The module could go atop the GSLV or GSLV Mark III and enhance their capabilities to send probes to Mars, said Mr. Ramakrishnan.




    EDIT:  As per news reports, former ISRO chairman U.R.Rao had mentioned recently that ISRO might target the 2018 launch window for the next Mars mission as 2016 is too close to plan a good science oriented mission. So we may have to wait for the 2018 then.

    Yes, it seems 2018 is the earliest window for next mission.
    Quote
    For future missions, ISRO will have to turn to the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) and GSLV Mark III that can lift much heavier spacecraft than the PSLV.

    ISRO needed to carry out a system study of how the GSLV and GSLV Mark III launchers could be used to carry probes for Mars, observed its chairman, K. Radhakrishnan “Certainly for the next mission we have to go for [a spacecraft with] higher mass.”

    The space agency would not be in a position to send a spacecraft to that planet during the 2016 launch opportunity, he told this correspondent. The launch window that opened in 2018 would be the earliest that the next mission to Mars could go. It was also necessary to be clear what science such a mission could carry out, he added.

    Full article: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/upgrading-indian-rockets-for-future-mars-missions/article6466353.ece
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 10/02/2014 02:02 PM
    The idea of SC + upper stage coasting together has already been attempted, so to speak, by RKA for Phobos-Grunt with a modified Fregat attached to the craft.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/02/2014 02:13 PM
    Quote
    7) Crash on to Mars -- 6 to 9 months from now
    Is there a source for this? I don't recall seeing this in any of the ISRO materials, but could easily have missed it. They do mention a possible extended mission after the nominal 6 months.

    It seems odd to me: AFAIK no NASA Mars orbiters have been intentionally de-orbited, and MOM has relatively little propellant to spare. The MOM orbit seems like it shouldn't decay for a long time, though perturbations might be an issue.

    I could not find any confirmations on this from official sources yet, but found two very contradicting statements in two unofficial sources. If any of you guys find any official confirmations on this, it would be great if you cold post them here..  ;D

    http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/hurried-mans-guide/isro-s-mars-orbiter-mission (http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/hurried-mans-guide/isro-s-mars-orbiter-mission)
    Quote
    Once that mission is complete, the spacecraft will not be allowed to crash onto Mars but manoeuvered away.

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/thiruvananthapuram/MOM-Challenges-Young-Students/2014/09/27/article2451993.ece (http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/thiruvananthapuram/MOM-Challenges-Young-Students/2014/09/27/article2451993.ece)
    Quote
    The Indian Mars craft Mangalyaan would crash on Martian surface following exhaustion of fuel.



    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/02/2014 02:31 PM
    The idea of SC + upper stage coasting together has already been attempted, so to speak, by RKA for Phobos-Grunt with a modified Fregat attached to the craft.

    Yep, I believe PSLV did a similar thing with its upper stages and MOM coasting together. But the problem for GSLV as mentioned earlier would be the payload loss due to bundling of an additional hypergol upper stage. The ideal solution would have been to make CE-7.5 restartable. But as S.Ramakrishnan says in the link, its complicated to add such a capability for cryo-engines and will take time to develop.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 10/02/2014 02:40 PM
    But the problem for GSLV as mentioned earlier would be the payload loss due to bundling of an additional hypergol upper stage. The ideal solution would have been to make CE-7.5 restartable. But as S.Ramakrishnan says in the link, its complicated to add such a capability for cryo-engines and will take time to develop.

    There was a discussion about PAM-G, cryogenic engine restart capability and how Centaur upper stage does it, in one of the GSLV discussion threads. You may find it interesting:
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33622.msg1148624#msg1148624
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/02/2014 02:49 PM
    The idea of SC + upper stage coasting together has already been attempted, so to speak, by RKA for Phobos-Grunt with a modified Fregat attached to the craft.

    But the problem for GSLV as mentioned earlier would be the payload loss due to bundling of an additional hypergol upper stage. 

    Even if we use PAM-G, payload and mission life would be much more than what can be achieved using PSLV.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 10/02/2014 03:45 PM
    Regarding comet Siding Spring:
    Quote
    Meanwhile, the committee under former Isro chairman UR Rao met earlier this week to work out the possibilities of MOM studying Comet Siding Spring, which is expected to go past Mars on October 19. "Now that MOM has completed one revolution around Mars, we know its position vis-a-vis the comet," Rao told TOI.

    Scientists are calibrating the various payloads. Rao said the final decision on what type of study should be conducted will be taken in October.

    "The important payload to study the comet will be the methane sensor. But we'll have to work out the plan and what results we may expect with different options," another scientist said, adding, "A final decision will be taken around October 15 depending on MOM's position."

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/MOM-takes-3-2-Earth-days-to-go-around-Mars/articleshow/43997768.cms
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/02/2014 04:40 PM
    There was a discussion about PAM-G, cryogenic engine restart capability and how Centaur upper stage does it, in one of the GSLV discussion threads. You may find it interesting:
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33622.msg1148624#msg1148624

    Thanks vyoma! I vaguely remember reading these posts sometime back, but then later forgot the forum. Its quite informative. :)

    Even if we use PAM-G, payload and mission life would be much more than what can be achieved using PSLV.

    Ok.. So the Mars payloads you quoted in one of your earlier posts (1000kg for elliptical and 550kg for circular orbits), are they applicable when using PAM-G? What are the other solutions ISRO can consider for Mars missions using GSLV-II (barring, of course, the restartable cryo-stage) ?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/02/2014 04:45 PM
    Latest Frontline article about how ISRO planned the LAM test-firing and MOI in detail
    http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/giant-leap/article6460749.ece?homepage=true (http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/giant-leap/article6460749.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    The final burn duration was only 23.08 seconds, a difference of nearly a minute from the planned duration. This duration is actually determined by the on-board accelerometer itself, which shuts off the engine automatically once the required change in velocity—actually a braking velocity to slow down the spacecraft to enable its capture into the Martian orbit—is realised. As against the targeted 1,098.7 m/s, the operation achieved a velocity change of 1,099 m/s. That is indeed an amazing precision. A difference of one minute in the burn time also means a significant gain in terms of the on-board fuel saved.

    Quote
    Before the MOI, the quantity of effectively available on-board fuel was 281 kg, of which about 250 kg was expected to be consumed during the LAM firing. But that difference of one minute has meant a fuel saving of about 10 kg and this can, in principle, increase the spacecraft life beyond the targeted six months. “We achieved a completely unexpected efficiency of 99.6 per cent in the LAM performance during the test firing,” Radhakrishnan said. “Normally, one does expect a performance degradation of about 2 per cent when you restart after leaving it idle for as long a duration as 300 days. Even our simulations had indicated that. But to our surprise, we got such high efficiency that we decided to reduce the burn time during the MOI,” he said. And even the final firing seems to have gone off with equal efficiency.

    Quote
    The idea of the September 22 test firing itself was quite innovative. It was actually a two-in-one operation: one to carry out a trajectory correction manoeuvre (TCM) of bringing the altitude of the final orbit down to the designated value of around 500 km from the 720-odd km that the spacecraft would have achieved if this firing had not succeeded and the spacecraft had gone along in its trajectory; two, to test the performance of the main engine for the crucial D-day operation. This TCM, which was otherwise scheduled to be carried out on September 14, was not done with this two-birds-with-one-stone operation in mind. You could argue that that there was a risk of not getting the correct altitude if the LAM had failed in the test. But, if the LAM had failed, in any case an optimum orbit with thrusters alone would not have been possible. So why not this? So went the scientists’ logic and it was indeed remarkable thinking.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 10/02/2014 05:24 PM
    Latest Frontline article about how ISRO planned the LAM test-firing and MOI in detail
    http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/giant-leap/article6460749.ece?homepage=true (http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/giant-leap/article6460749.ece?homepage=true)
    Fabulous article. Covers several aspects of MOM propulsion system. Thanks for sharing!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 10/02/2014 08:10 PM
    Ok.. So the Mars payloads you quoted in one of your earlier posts (1000kg for elliptical and 550kg for circular orbits), are they applicable when using PAM-G? What are the other solutions ISRO can consider for Mars missions using GSLV-II (barring, of course, the restartable cryo-stage) ?

    Say it with me now: "Xe-non thrus-ter! <clap clap clap> Xe-non thrus-ter <clap clap clap>".

    Indian Space Policy wise, you can spin the first mission of every kind as a technology demonstrator, but the next one is going to have to be a service carrying some foreign science payload. I think most other agencies are maxed out on their Mars budgets right about now. So... I'd rather the second Mangalyaan... if there is indeed going to be one in 2018 -  be our first foray into ion-engines (on the Earth end), and aero-braking (at Mars).
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 10/03/2014 07:16 AM
    The author of that article uses a pretty strange method of representing time... 24.14 minutes is an acceptable fraction, 23.08 seconds is a completely different thing altogether.  ???
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 10/03/2014 08:03 AM
    The author of that article uses a pretty strange method of representing time... 24.14 minutes is an acceptable fraction, 23.08 seconds is a completely different thing altogether.  ???

    I guess he meant to say 23.08 minutes - perhaps onboard accelerometer sensed that the MOI delta-v was achieved after 23 minutes of firing of LAM and shut it off (instead of predicted 24 minutes) and saved some fuel in the process.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 10/03/2014 08:42 AM
    The author of that article uses a pretty strange method of representing time... 24.14 minutes is an acceptable fraction, 23.08 seconds is a completely different thing altogether.  ???

    I guess he meant to say 23.08 minutes - perhaps onboard accelerometer sensed that the MOI delta-v was achieved after 23 minutes of firing of LAM and shut it off (instead of predicted 24 minutes) and saved some fuel in the process.

    I know, but it's just wrong.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: R7 on 10/03/2014 10:53 AM
    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast

    Which one is closer to what Mars actually looks like to naked eye? Seems there's a big difference in hue and lightness.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 10/03/2014 11:11 AM
    here is a picture of mars taken by the 70's era viking mission...compare and contrast

    Which one is closer to what Mars actually looks like to naked eye? Seems there's a big difference in hue and lightness.

    The MOM picture is definitely more realistic, but it's still not properly color calibrated.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/04/2014 03:24 AM
    There was a discussion about PAM-G, cryogenic engine restart capability and how Centaur upper stage does it, in one of the GSLV discussion threads. You may find it interesting:
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33622.msg1148624#msg1148624

    Thanks vyoma! I vaguely remember reading these posts sometime back, but then later forgot the forum. Its quite informative. :)

    Even if we use PAM-G, payload and mission life would be much more than what can be achieved using PSLV.

    Ok.. So the Mars payloads you quoted in one of your earlier posts (1000kg for elliptical and 550kg for circular orbits), are they applicable when using PAM-G? What are the other solutions ISRO can consider for Mars missions using GSLV-II (barring, of course, the restartable cryo-stage) ?

    Yes those payloads account for PAM-G. I don't see any other mature option in the coming decade.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/04/2014 07:37 AM
    The Methane Problem on Mars (http://www.prl.res.in/~rajiv/planexnews/Octarticle2014-3.php)

    Quote
    The Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) has a methane sensor, based on Fabry-Perot etalon, which can measure the CH4 at several ppb levels (Goswami et al, 2013). Detailed measurements of methane levels in the atmosphere over long periods from an orbiting platform would definitely answer some of the pertinent questions regarding the Martian methane.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sultanofhyd on 10/07/2014 01:22 PM
    New image showing the Elysium
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/07/2014 04:43 PM
    New image showing the Elysium

    Cool.. Thanks man..  8)

    Looks like this image was less 'photoshopped' than the last time? A little less reddish, and less visible artifacts. The northern dust storm is raging still, or is the whitish thing on top just the polar ice cap?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Dalhousie on 10/07/2014 10:45 PM
    Ok.. So the Mars payloads you quoted in one of your earlier posts (1000kg for elliptical and 550kg for circular orbits), are they applicable when using PAM-G? What are the other solutions ISRO can consider for Mars missions using GSLV-II (barring, of course, the restartable cryo-stage) ?

    Indian Space Policy wise, you can spin the first mission of every kind as a technology demonstrator, but the next one is going to have to be a service carrying some foreign science payload. I think most other agencies are maxed out on their Mars budgets right about now. So... I'd rather the second Mangalyaan... if there is indeed going to be one in 2018 -  be our first foray into ion-engines (on the Earth end), and aero-braking (at Mars).

    While certainly there should be openings for international payloads, what makes you think that idia can't develop useful instruments itself?  Indeed, what makes you think that MOM's payload isn't useful now?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: AJA on 10/08/2014 09:51 AM
    While certainly there should be openings for ionternational payloads, what makes you think that idia can't develop useful instruments itself?  Indeed, what makes you think that MOM's payload isn't useful now?

    I didn't mean to say that we can't build useful instruments, or that Mangalyaan's are useless. I'm aware of the huge heritage and competence we have in Remote sensing. I was talking about inadequate managerial/political support to fundamental research programs. Mangalyaan was always a showcase mission. It was applied research, where the "application" was to bring in foreign exchange by portraying India as technologically capable of pulling off an inter-planetary mission.

    Indeed, they don't even expect this investment to flow to ISRO. This mission is to sway CEOs & boardrooms of companies (across all sectors), to convince people who have been sitting on the fences, to take that leap of faith and exploit leverage the highly skilled, English speaking, yet cheap labour market in India
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vyoma on 10/09/2014 05:04 AM
    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/indore/crossing-in-indore-to-be-named-after-mars-mission/article1-1273049.aspx

    Quote
    To commemorate Indian Space Research Organisation’s (ISRO) Mars Orbiter Mission’s (MOM) grand success and with a view to make coming generation aware about the milestone, Indore Development Authority (IDA) is going to rename an intersection at Super Corridor near Indore Airport as Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) roundabout.

    "This is for the first time that we are dedicating a crossing to our scientists and the intersection would be renamed "Mars Crossing" or "Mangal Chouraha," he said and added that "The crossing will display a mars shaped ball installed over a red pillar with a message ‘In honour of successful mars mission’ along with details about MOM."

    :)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/10/2014 01:36 AM
    MOM to observe Mars's 'close encounter' with comet (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/MOM-to-observe-Marss-close-encounter-with-comet/articleshow/44766418.cms)

    Quote
    The space agency moved MOM to a "safer position" on Tuesday to avoid any damage to its payloads from the comet's debris. Tuesday's manoeuvre which consumed 1.9 kg of fuel will put the spacecraft at an approximate distance of 1,40,000km from the comet when it flies by. Kumar said MOM was now 400km away from the surface of the Red Planet on the opposite side of the comet.

    Quote
    The spacecraft will carry out observations of the comet and even capture it on its Mars Colour Camera. The duration between the comet's arrival and departure on October 19 will be approximately one-and-a-half hours.

    Quote
    MOM's payload Methane Sensor for Mars will check for presence of Methane on Siding Spring, which is travelling at a velocity of 56km/second relative to the planet
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: seshagirib on 10/10/2014 05:37 PM
    Why is propellant expenditure a limiting factor for life of MOM ( or any other probe / sat. which has achieved orbit ) ? Is it not possible to have attitude control using the reaction control wheels only, as long as solar / battery power is available ?
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: plutogno on 10/10/2014 05:47 PM
    Is it not possible to have attitude control using the reaction control wheels only as long as solar / battery power is available ?

    nope. reaction wheels become less and less effective as their rpm increases. so you need to spin them down ("desaturate") from time to time and in these cases you need to control the orientation using jets.
    in Earth's orbit you can desaturate reaction wheels using magnetic coils interacting with the Earth's magnetic field as is done on Hubble (which has no propulsion system), but you can't do that in Mars orbit or in deep space.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: seshagirib on 10/10/2014 05:59 PM
    in Earth's orbit you can desaturate reaction wheels using magnetic coils interacting with the Earth's magnetic field as is done on Hubble (which has no propulsion system), but you can't do that in Mars orbit or in deep space.

    Why is this not used for all of the Sats. in Earth orbit? and for planets with a magnetic field?
    Thank you! for the explanation.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 10/10/2014 06:40 PM
    in Earth's orbit you can desaturate reaction wheels using magnetic coils interacting with the Earth's magnetic field as is done on Hubble (which has no propulsion system), but you can't do that in Mars orbit or in deep space.

    Why is this not used for all of the Sats. in Earth orbit? and for planets with a magnetic field?
    Thank you! for the explanation.

    Reaction wheels would also incur extra mass penalty and are prone to failures over longer mission durations. Further, propellant may also be required for periodic orbit corrections to account for perturbations out of drag and oblateness of the planet.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: hop on 10/10/2014 08:29 PM
    Reaction wheels would also incur extra mass penalty and are prone to failures over longer mission durations.
    AFAIK MOM uses both, like most planetary spacecraft. Desaturating occasionally is more efficient than doing everything with thrusters, and reaction wheels are generally better for fine control.

    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 10/12/2014 07:39 AM
    Some of the unreleased and raw images from a presentation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_e7L0nJTQw) by Director - SAC, ISRO at IIT Gandhinagar. These are all screen grabs, so no high quality here. Please enjoy!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 10/12/2014 07:40 AM
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: ss1_3 on 10/12/2014 07:43 AM
    In the second last image, Phobos (encircled) transit over Mars was captured.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/13/2014 12:16 PM
    In the second last image, Phobos (encircled) transit over Mars was captured.
    Nice find, thanks..  8)

    The image with Phobos seem to show the same Elysium region as in the previous image that was made public, but taken from a a slightly different position. No sign of Phobos in the published one though, so this might be a new set taken recently. I wish they publish multiple images of this set to show us mortals how that dark patch moved relative to the Mars disc..  :) Phobos moves relatively fast in the Martian sky, doesn't it? ( EDIT: Just watched the video, they do have the motion captured in consecutive photos, and it is the shadow of the moon on the Martian surface, not the moon itself)

    The images shown for Oct 1st and Oct 4th coverages (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29440.0;attach=612246) kind of fill the gaps for the earlier two global views that were made public, but is unpublished as yet.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/14/2014 03:29 AM
    MOM gears up for comet fly-by (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/mom-gears-up-for-comet-flyby/article6498324.ece)

    Quote
    ISRO engineers handling MOM from the command centre at Bangalore have been trying to balance MOM’s safety with the visual treat the fly-by promises, according to MOM Mission director V. Kesava Raju. For the October 20 encounter, the 25-plus team of engineers associated with the five MOM instruments were working out the best position for the instruments.


    Quote
    Opportunities to take pictures of the comet and its tail during October 19 – 21 are also under discussion. Post-encounter, the key concern would be to protect MOM’s body from exposure to the large cloud of dust.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/14/2014 12:57 PM
    @MarsOrbiter spots Phobos (animation)
    https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/B7459728571133760064197705728_26bd180e684.5.1.8295492310491926854.mp4 (https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/B7459728571133760064197705728_26bd180e684.5.1.8295492310491926854.mp4)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: sanman on 10/15/2014 02:07 AM
    Here you go - animated GIF format:

    (https://i.imgflip.com/d32a0.gif)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/15/2014 06:09 AM
    I wonder why ISRO has not yet published the previous couple of global snaps of Mars as seen in the presentation posted by @ss1_3. Even the second photo published through FB/Twitter (with Elysium) has not been updated yet in their website. Too busy planning for Siding Spring encounter perhaps?  ???
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: Ohsin on 10/17/2014 06:30 AM
    Olympus Mons, collinear mons - Arsia, Pavonis & Ascraeus and Valles Marineris canyon system!
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: antriksh on 10/17/2014 09:17 AM
    Scientific exploration of Mars by first Indian interplanetary space
    probe: Mars Orbiter Mission (http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/107/07/1096.pdf)
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/18/2014 12:49 PM
    Olympus Mons, collinear mons - Arsia, Pavonis & Ascraeus and Valles Marineris canyon system!

    Thanks for sharing! Did they publish a high res version too? I really hope they put their mind to updating these images in their website as well. The MOM images section (http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/mom-images.aspx) there hasn't been updated since the first global snap.  ???

    As for the images themselves, they are becoming less and less reddish. Maybe they finally got the colour calibration right.
    Title: Re: ISRO Mars Orbiter Mission - Nov 2013 launch to September 2014 arrival - UPDATES
    Post by: vineethgk on 10/19/2014 02:29 AM
    Tonight, MOM spacecraft will have a ringside view of Comet Siding Spring (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/tonight-mars-orbiter-mission-spacecraft-will-have-a-ringside-view-of-comet-siding-spring/article6515109.ece?homepage=true)

    Quote
    The comet will be closest to Mars at 11.40 p.m. on Sunday and the encounter will last 21 minutes.

    ISRO’s payload teams plan to operate four of the five instruments during this period, including the Mars Colour Camera and the Methane Sensor for Mars and the Thermal Infrared Imaging Spectrometer.

    They will keep vigil from 10 p.m. on Sunday until 4 a.m. on Monday.

    Mr. Arunan said MOM would cover the comet before and after the encounter. It would take pictures of the comet and take a peek at the composition of the gases in its tail, which include hydrogen and methane coming from the or