Author Topic: Progress M-04M launches to cost-cutting ISS STS-135 addition removed  (Read 5171 times)

Offline marsavian

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They don't know, don't care and don't really care to know. If there is a problem they can just blame the original decision to cancel Shuttle.

I fear you're right and then try to blame the Bush administration, which of course has become SOP.

The important thing is to cut all operational costs for the new Nirvana R&D workshops. Hey, get with the plan already and think happy space cadet thoughts whilst doing so and then you will get an idea of your political leaders mindset :(.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2010 11:44 PM by marsavian »

Offline ETEE

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May I just add that it is indeed a sad end to a great vehicle.  I really thought and hoped that Shuttle would continue until 2015 albeit at a reduced rate.  Unfortunately it all has to be paid for and there isn't anything left in the piggybank.  It took the biggest recession for 75 years to stop the Space Shuttle, the greatest flying machine that the world has ever seen.

Sorry for being slightly off-topic.
Echo Tango Echo Echo

Offline Danderman

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OV-106, is there really no way to send up ORUs? Isn't there an unpressurized version of Cygnus and room for unpressurized cargo in the Dragon spacecraft's trunk, for instance?

HTV can send up most unpressurized ORUs. Most pressurized ORUs can be carried aboard ATV.

If Dragon flies successfully, then most logistics issues diminish significantly.

If Cygnus flies successfully, many logistics issues diminish.

If both fly successfully, stowage becomes a bigger problem at ISS.

« Last Edit: 02/04/2010 09:08 PM by Danderman »

Offline clb22

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1. If Dragon flies successfully, then most logistics issues diminish significantly.

2. If Cygnus flies successfully, many logistics issues diminish.

3. If both fly successfully, stowage becomes a bigger problem at ISS.

1. No. Dragon would have to fly up to 7 times per year to meet all upmass requirements alone. You need to have the HTV, ATV and both commercial providers deliver their contracts on time to not get into trouble.

2. Yes, if both Dragon and Cygnus fly successfully and even more importantly without big delays for their first flights, logistic problems diminish.

3. That's laughable. You never get up more up there than you need. That's the whole point of frequent flights of 2-2.5mt of pressurized cargo per flight!

Anyway, not sure whether your post was directed against the addition of STS-135, but one thing is clear, it's a matter of when Dragon and Cygnus come online. Right now it looks like both will have serious delays for their CRS flights, which means the USOS part of the ISS will run into shortages during 2011.
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Offline Danderman

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1. If Dragon flies successfully, then most logistics issues diminish significantly.

2. If Cygnus flies successfully, many logistics issues diminish.

3. If both fly successfully, stowage becomes a bigger problem at ISS.

1. No. Dragon would have to fly up to 7 times per year to meet all upmass requirements alone. You need to have the HTV, ATV and both commercial providers deliver their contracts on time to not get into trouble.

2. Yes, if both Dragon and Cygnus fly successfully and even more importantly without big delays for their first flights, logistic problems diminish.

3. That's laughable. You never get up more up there than you need. That's the whole point of frequent flights of 2-2.5mt of pressurized cargo per flight!

Anyway, not sure whether your post was directed against the addition of STS-135, but one thing is clear, it's a matter of when Dragon and Cygnus come online. Right now it looks like both will have serious delays for their CRS flights, which means the USOS part of the ISS will run into shortages during 2011.

I was and am assuming that the supplies delivered by Dragon/Cygnus would be in addition to those being delivered by existing vehicles. Of course, if you start assuming that ATV and HTV will disappear, then all sorts of new requirements would emerge.

BTW, none of my statements has any impact on the proposed STS-335, as both Dragon and Cygnus would not actually deliver cargo until long after shuttle retirement.

Offline robertross

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OV-106, is there really no way to send up ORUs? Isn't there an unpressurized version of Cygnus and room for unpressurized cargo in the Dragon spacecraft's trunk, for instance?

HTV can send up most unpressurized ORUs. Most pressurized ORUs can be carried aboard ATV.

If Dragon flies successfully, then most logistics issues diminish significantly.


And in doing so, removes one of the main reasons WHY they are there: to fly science to the ISS.

The HTV is 'supposed' to be flying science payloads for its 'front porch'. With essentially 1/year, Japan loses the capability to utilize its own science facilities. (yes I know, or lose all with poor functioning ISS, the problem we are hoping to change).

Same for ATV: valuable space for science is taken up by spares.

Both Japan and ESA planned their vehicles to meet their own science needs. Now it seems NASA would be holding out a can collecting donations for flights to maintain America's major contribution. Poetic? Or Pathetic. I'm not sure just yet.
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Offline clb22

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BTW, none of my statements has any impact on the proposed STS-335, as both Dragon and Cygnus would not actually deliver cargo until long after shuttle retirement.

I was assuming your statement was related to the thread title (STS-135).

The CRS contract awarded about 14 months ago assumes the first CRS contract flight to take place in December 2010 for SpaceX and the first CRS contract flight for OSC in October 2011. That's not long after shuttle retirement. I agree, however, that in reality these dates will be pushed to the right quite extensively, which will become more and more apparent in the next 6 months, which will force NASA to baseline STS-135 in order to avoid a cargo upmass shortage in 2011 and early 2012.
Spirals not circles, Mr. President. Spirals!

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