Author Topic: VASIMR on the ISS  (Read 41101 times)

Offline nacnud

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VASIMR on the ISS
« on: 08/06/2008 01:22 pm »
Flight international mentions that NASA [plans] to test plasma engine on space station.

Good news but it leaves open the question of how it is to get there.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2008 01:52 pm by nacnud »

Offline simonbp

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #1 on: 08/06/2008 04:13 pm »
Interesting indeed. I suppose it depends on how large the test article might be, but this sounds like a job for Cygnus Unpressurised...

Simon ;)

Offline lewis886

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #2 on: 08/06/2008 08:34 pm »
yes... it's a job for the Cygnus   
hehe...   :D ;)   sorry, couldn't resist ;)



Offline pm1823

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #3 on: 08/06/2008 11:45 pm »
Oh no, repair SARJ first. :)

Offline Patchouli

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #4 on: 08/07/2008 01:50 am »
Sounds like a great idea Cygnus unpressurised or the HTV would be an idea vehicle to send it up on.

Not sure if it would fit in Dragon's cargo trunk it might though depends on the size of the VASIMR engine and it's related hardware.

Just make sure either of the three vehicles have done a few grunt work resupply missions first before risking something NASA might only build once.

One interesting part of the installation is it would entitle routing some very large power cables to the engine from the station's main power but it would be more then worth the effort.

It would give the US side reboost capability lost when the shuttle retires and reduce the need for propellant on the Russian side.
One nice thing is it can use the waste hydrogen from the elektron units or even recovered waste water the crew might not want to drink out of the ick factor as propellant.
« Last Edit: 08/07/2008 01:51 am by Patchouli »

Offline nacnud

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #5 on: 08/07/2008 02:36 am »
Well the new ECLSS vents hydrogen into space, no idea if this can be collected and used though.

Offline Danny Dot

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #6 on: 08/07/2008 12:51 pm »
I am glad NASA is bringing this great technology forward.  It could be a key to getting to Mars.

Danny
Danny Deger

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #7 on: 08/24/2008 11:47 pm »
The prototype/engineering model VASIMR appears to be undergoing ground testing at the moment.  Here is a YouTube video.


They claim that nominally, the VX-200 will produce 5 N (~1.1lbf) at a 5,000 s Isp.  It uses 200 kW and argon as a propellant.

Notes:
  ISRU Argon is extractable from the atmosphere of Mars.
  The current mass of the ISS is about 278 000 kg.
  So a VASIMR should be able to supply the ISS's station keeping delta-v in less than a month.

Offline Jorge

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #8 on: 08/25/2008 12:44 am »
The prototype/engineering model VASIMR appears to be undergoing ground testing at the moment.  Here is a YouTube video.


They claim that nominally, the VX-200 will produce 5 N (~1.1lbf) at a 5,000 s Isp.  It uses 200 kW and argon as a propellant.

Notes:
  ISRU Argon is extractable from the atmosphere of Mars.
  The current mass of the ISS is about 278 000 kg.
  So a VASIMR should be able to supply the ISS's station keeping delta-v in less than a month.

Too bad ISS can only generate 110 kW of power...
JRF

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #9 on: 08/26/2008 01:03 am »
Too bad ISS can only generate 110 kW of power...

That sounds like a good opportunity to test the new 100 kW solar arrays.
http://www.entechsolar.com/SPRAT-XX-SLA-SEP.pdf

At 300 w/kg

200 000/300 = 667 kg

Offline Jim

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #10 on: 08/26/2008 01:17 am »
That sounds like a good opportunity to test the new 100 kW solar arrays.


The link is meaningless, it isn't going to happen

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #11 on: 11/21/2008 07:57 pm »
Too bad ISS can only generate 110 kW of power...

So, it will have to run in pulsed mode, then. Or, perhaps they can just throttle down the power or send up the VX-100 (100 kW)--would be called the VF-100--instead.

This VASIMR thing is what is going to make lunar/martian bases and asteroid mining possible. It will make Martian missions much faster and/or cheaper. What do you think the probability is of VASIMR actually being used operationally (not just experimentally) in under 10 years (not counting the ISS, of course)?

300 W/kg sounds very good for the stretched-lens solar panels, much better than nuclear (inside Mars or asteroid belt orbit) and probably a lot cheaper, too. Of course, it may be simpler (lighter?) to use Nanosolar sort of solar panels, which are also dirt-cheap as a bonus.

Maybe the stretched-lens and VASIMR people can get together and make a joint proposition to NASA (or, heck, DoD) to use them for orbital correction services (obviously not on the ISS)? Sounds viable if they can offer it for dirt cheap for the first launch (like, $10 million + launch costs).
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #12 on: 12/10/2008 08:47 pm »
300 W/kg sounds very good for the stretched-lens solar panels, much better than nuclear (inside Mars or asteroid belt orbit) and probably a lot cheaper, too. Of course, it may be simpler (lighter?) to use Nanosolar sort of solar panels, which are also dirt-cheap as a bonus.

That is 300 w/kg at LEO and Lunar orbit.  Due to the extra distance from the sun the arrays in Mars orbit produce about 300 * 0.4 = 120 w/kg

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #13 on: 12/10/2008 09:03 pm »
300 W/kg sounds very good for the stretched-lens solar panels, much better than nuclear (inside Mars or asteroid belt orbit) and probably a lot cheaper, too. Of course, it may be simpler (lighter?) to use Nanosolar sort of solar panels, which are also dirt-cheap as a bonus.

That is 300 w/kg at LEO and Lunar orbit.  Due to the extra distance from the sun the arrays in Mars orbit produce about 300 * 0.4 = 120 w/kg
I was mentally taking that into account for that post, although I didn't mention it. Of course a 300 W/kg solar-powered system near Earth would have less power near Mars. My point was that even with the decreased amount of sunlight at Mars, solar power is still close to nuclear power energy density, if not above. Discussed here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15071.0
« Last Edit: 12/10/2008 09:31 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #14 on: 12/14/2008 06:29 am »
Just saw this on slashdot ( http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/13/1624258 ):
Toren Altair brings news that NASA and the Ad Astra Rocket Company finalized a Space Act Agreement earlier this week ( http://spacefellowship.com/News/?p=7685 ) to test the Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket (VASIMR) on the International Space Station. The agreement hinges on a series of requirements for the thruster's performance and efficiency in ground-based tests. "The primary technical objective of the project is to operate the VASIMR VF-200 engine at power levels up to 200 kW. Engine operation will be restricted to pulses of up to 10 minutes at this power level. Energy for these high-power operations will be provided by a battery system trickle-charged by the ISS power system. These tests will mark the first time that a high-power, steady-state electric thruster will be used as part of a manned spacecraft."

This answers a lot of questions.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2008 06:30 am by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline sandrot

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #15 on: 12/14/2008 02:45 pm »
I am providing a link to the original Ad Astra press release.

http://www.adastrarocket.com/AdAstra-NASA_PR12Dec08.pdf
"Paper planes do fly much better than paper spacecrafts."

Offline GraphGuy

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #16 on: 12/15/2008 11:16 pm »
I have high hopes for VASIMR and am glad that it will finally be heading to the ISS.  I wish that it could run in continuously, but obviously Chang-Diaz and NASA think that this is a perfectly adequate test run.

I wonder how long it would take for VASIMR running in high ISP mode to do a human crewed Jupiter flyby?  Forget Mars, send people by the outer planets :)

Offline Patchouli

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #17 on: 12/16/2008 12:35 am »
If it works it should save a lot on reboost propellant which means there will be more cargo for other supplies.
I really hope it gets launched and tested in space because VASIMR is an enabling technology even more important then an HLLV.

Stuff like this really should get a lot more funding.
« Last Edit: 12/16/2008 12:49 am by Patchouli »

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #18 on: 12/16/2008 02:12 am »
That sounds like a good opportunity to test the new 100 kW solar arrays.


The link is meaningless, it isn't going to happen

If the large Entech solar array has been cancelled are there any other ones under development?  Possibly by SRS Technologies?

Offline GraphGuy

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Re: VASIMR on the ISS
« Reply #19 on: 12/16/2008 05:27 pm »
That sounds like a good opportunity to test the new 100 kW solar arrays.


The link is meaningless, it isn't going to happen

If the large Entech solar array has been cancelled are there any other ones under development?  Possibly by SRS Technologies?

Well VASIMR on ISS is using batteries.  The batteries trickle charge and I assume VASIMR runs in burst mode.  I'd still like to see a technology demonstrator that uses VASIMR and nuclear power to test continuous usage of both engine and power source.

I'd like to see VASIMR in a tug/Mars craft using a scaled down Hyperion reactor (say 1MW electricty, 3 MW waste heat) with a 5 year lifetime.  A small and inherently safe self moderating nuclear reactor + a high ISP plasma engine could really open the solar system up.

I don't know how viable a solar VASIMR tug would be if it had to take large solar pannels through the Van Allen belt many many times.  Then again I don't know if you could get congress to authorize nuclear power in LEO.

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