He said ABS-8 will cost “an order of magnitude less” than current-generation geostationary satellites, a feature Choi said is necessary if the satellite industry is to survive the onslaught of terrestrial broadband competition.
He is discussing cost on a per megabit basis.
Ah, yes, I missed that bit in the previous paragraph. Still, I imagine there must be some reduction in the base cost of the satellite to achieve a tenfold decrease in the data throughput cost.
Quote from: Owlon on 06/01/2015 06:04 pmAh, yes, I missed that bit in the previous paragraph. Still, I imagine there must be some reduction in the base cost of the satellite to achieve a tenfold decrease in the data throughput cost.It is already a smaller spacecraft than others. Mass ~cost.
Moore's Law notwithstanding, I wouldn't be suprised to see Cube sats doing the same job at some of the more huge Telecom and Weather sats in the not too distant future. At an altitude of 600Km, most of teh Cube sats would be able to give continious, highly detailed weather info from multiple angles and Telecom sats could network on orbit, providing incredible levels of broadband capibilities.
By end 2017 they should have choice of F9R at considerably lower launch price <$50m or second payload to half price $35m.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 06/01/2015 07:36 pmBy end 2017 they should have choice of F9R at considerably lower launch price <$50m or second payload to half price $35m.I believe there have been tweets out of SpaceX for negotiations for possible customers for a F9R at the price of ~$40M. Just how real this price is is a question but it jives with conservative eco models for a reused 1st stage (10 times reuse). If ABS goes this raoute as a sole rider they will incurr only a $10M increase in price over their earlier ride cost.
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 06/02/2015 12:59 amQuote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 06/01/2015 08:16 pmQuote from: TrevorMonty on 06/01/2015 07:36 pmI believe there have been tweets out of SpaceX for negotiations for possible customers for a F9R at the price of ~$40M. Just how real this price is is a question but it jives with conservative eco models for a reused 1st stage (10 times reuse). If ABS goes this raoute as a sole rider they will incurr only a $10M increase in price over their earlier ride cost.If using a F9R with one 702SP satcom. Would the F9R be able to do GSO insertion directly?I don't think the current us has the ability to do the long multi hour coast needed.
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 06/01/2015 08:16 pmQuote from: TrevorMonty on 06/01/2015 07:36 pmI believe there have been tweets out of SpaceX for negotiations for possible customers for a F9R at the price of ~$40M. Just how real this price is is a question but it jives with conservative eco models for a reused 1st stage (10 times reuse). If ABS goes this raoute as a sole rider they will incurr only a $10M increase in price over their earlier ride cost.If using a F9R with one 702SP satcom. Would the F9R be able to do GSO insertion directly?
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 06/01/2015 07:36 pmI believe there have been tweets out of SpaceX for negotiations for possible customers for a F9R at the price of ~$40M. Just how real this price is is a question but it jives with conservative eco models for a reused 1st stage (10 times reuse). If ABS goes this raoute as a sole rider they will incurr only a $10M increase in price over their earlier ride cost.
Quote from: kevin-rf on 06/02/2015 02:13 amQuote from: Zed_Noir on 06/02/2015 12:59 amQuote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 06/01/2015 08:16 pmQuote from: TrevorMonty on 06/01/2015 07:36 pmI believe there have been tweets out of SpaceX for negotiations for possible customers for a F9R at the price of ~$40M. Just how real this price is is a question but it jives with conservative eco models for a reused 1st stage (10 times reuse). If ABS goes this raoute as a sole rider they will incurr only a $10M increase in price over their earlier ride cost.If using a F9R with one 702SP satcom. Would the F9R be able to do GSO insertion directly?I don't think the current us has the ability to do the long multi hour coast needed.Nothing that some solar panels and batteries couldm't fixed, if the upper stage have the Delta-Vee available.Just how much extra service life does a 702SP satcom get with a direct GSO insertion?
If using a F9R with one 702SP satcom. Would the F9R be able to do GSO insertion directly?
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 06/02/2015 02:38 amQuote from: kevin-rf on 06/02/2015 02:13 amQuote from: Zed_Noir on 06/02/2015 12:59 amQuote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 06/01/2015 08:16 pmQuote from: TrevorMonty on 06/01/2015 07:36 pmI believe there have been tweets out of SpaceX for negotiations for possible customers for a F9R at the price of ~$40M. Just how real this price is is a question but it jives with conservative eco models for a reused 1st stage (10 times reuse). If ABS goes this raoute as a sole rider they will incurr only a $10M increase in price over their earlier ride cost.If using a F9R with one 702SP satcom. Would the F9R be able to do GSO insertion directly?I don't think the current us has the ability to do the long multi hour coast needed.Nothing that some solar panels and batteries couldm't fixed, if the upper stage have the Delta-Vee available.Just how much extra service life does a 702SP satcom get with a direct GSO insertion?Batteries alone are sufficient. Maybe a little extra thruster gas.
While problem neither are the hardest too solve. Lox boil off will be the biggest.
I don't think the current us has the ability to do the long multi hour coast needed.
I certainly think the Falcon upper stage will be capable of extended operations and 3rd and 4th burns in the next few years. I also believe that somewhere between now and BFR there will be work on a returnable upper stage. However, extended ops are going to be much sooner (speaking ex-cathedra from my belly button) and the next step after extended ops is probably depot. That is attaching an upper stage to something that besides propellant provides regenerative cooling for Lox (circulation and minimal heating for RP-1 too).Bringing this back to the issue at hand, I am not 100% sure that ABS-8 would benefit (economically) as much from full GSO insertion as it would from splitting the ride and saving $30 to $35M. And of course, I don't think that it would quite get full GSO, but maybe supersynch and the plane change?
Boeing Co (BA.N) is scrambling to find alternate financing for a satellite contract worth "several hundred million dollars" that was scuttled by privately held commercial satellite provider ABS due to uncertainty about the future of the U.S. Export-Import Bank, three sources familiar with the matter said on Tuesday.ABS, based in Bermuda and Hong Kong, terminated its order for the satellite in mid-July, citing the expiration of the trade bank's charter on June 30, according to the sources...
More than 30 transactions by the Export Import Bank of America, commonly referred to as Ex-Im Bank, remain stalled out — a year since Congress voted to reauthorize the institution. Included in these 30 transactions, each valued in excess of $10 million, are new satellite orders caught in limbo.
It looks like no one ever posted an update as this project ran into troubles last year. The initial contract was cancelled and it's not clear that it's ever been restarted yet. This satellite will definitely be delayed quite a bit if it ever actually gets built.[Reuters Aug 4 2015] Boeing loses large satellite deal due to trade credit woesQuoteBoeing Co (BA.N) is scrambling to find alternate financing for a satellite contract worth "several hundred million dollars" that was scuttled by privately held commercial satellite provider ABS due to uncertainty about the future of the U.S. Export-Import Bank, three sources familiar with the matter said on Tuesday.ABS, based in Bermuda and Hong Kong, terminated its order for the satellite in mid-July, citing the expiration of the trade bank's charter on June 30, according to the sources...[Via Satellite Jul 1 2016] Satellite Orders Still Caught in Battle Over Ex-Im BankQuoteMore than 30 transactions by the Export Import Bank of America, commonly referred to as Ex-Im Bank, remain stalled out — a year since Congress voted to reauthorize the institution. Included in these 30 transactions, each valued in excess of $10 million, are new satellite orders caught in limbo.
What would happen in this situation...does that free up a F9 for some other customer....?.?...does everyone move up in the queue ?.
Yeah, Elon's already dealing with this issue over at Tesla...
RP-1 is fine. LOx boiloff is much less of a problem than liquid hydrogen boiloff.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 06/02/2015 11:59 amRP-1 is fine. LOx boiloff is much less of a problem than liquid hydrogen boiloff.One of the issues for a cryocooler for the LOx is a radiator for the heat rejection. Could this dump the heat into the RP1 to stop it from freezing? ISTM this "just" needs to create a temperature gradient across the common bulkhead, making sure the RP1 side is warm enough not to cause freezing, and the LOX side cold enough to condense excess boiloff. In ground operations, this might even be used to extend launch windows by maintaining sub-cooling of the LOX. This would not be a solution for days of operation. Ultimately it relies on the heat capacity of the RP1, unless the system reaches thermal equilibrium before the RP1 gets too warm for M1Dvac operation. Cheers, Martin
Quote from: MP99 on 07/09/2016 02:13 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 06/02/2015 11:59 amRP-1 is fine. LOx boiloff is much less of a problem than liquid hydrogen boiloff.One of the issues for a cryocooler for the LOx is a radiator for the heat rejection. Could this dump the heat into the RP1 to stop it from freezing? ISTM this "just" needs to create a temperature gradient across the common bulkhead, making sure the RP1 side is warm enough not to cause freezing, and the LOX side cold enough to condense excess boiloff. In ground operations, this might even be used to extend launch windows by maintaining sub-cooling of the LOX. This would not be a solution for days of operation. Ultimately it relies on the heat capacity of the RP1, unless the system reaches thermal equilibrium before the RP1 gets too warm for M1Dvac operation. Cheers, MartinPeltier heat pump might work.
Quote from: Exclavion on 06/02/2015 04:35 amWhile problem neither are the hardest too solve. Lox boil off will be the biggest.I would expect that keeping the RP-1 liquid might be a bigger problem. But I may be wrong.BTW there was an exchange at the latest congressional hearing. Tory Bruno said, SpaceX cannot do direct GSO insertion and Gwynne Shotwell answered, we can.
ABS Chief Executive Tom Choi said his company “dodged a bullet” in not being able to secure U.S. Export-Import Bank loans the Boeing-built ABS-8 satellite, which was to have a high-throughput-satellite (HTS) payload.“Mark Dankberg and ViaSat have set the bar really high” with ViaSat-3, Choi said here Oct. 4 during the APSCC 2016 conference, referring to ViaSat’s chief executive. As a result of ViaSat’s announcement, Choi said, ABS is redesigning ABS-8, with Boeing, and still hopes to secure Ex-Im Bank backing.