Is there a simple reason why Orion needs such a larger ship and more elaborate recovery procedures than Dragon?
Quote from: Jason1701 on 08/18/2013 02:32 amIs there a simple reason why Orion needs such a larger ship and more elaborate recovery procedures than Dragon?If a crewed Dragon landed on water it would likely have more and larger support ships than a cargo Dragon has - so the comparison is not completely fair.
Quote from: Lars_J on 08/18/2013 03:07 amQuote from: Jason1701 on 08/18/2013 02:32 amIs there a simple reason why Orion needs such a larger ship and more elaborate recovery procedures than Dragon?If a crewed Dragon landed on water it would likely have more and larger support ships than a cargo Dragon has - so the comparison is not completely fair.The fleet would likely have an additional boat or boats for the astronauts to transfer to, but the act of recovering the capsule from the water - whether cargo Dragon, crew Dragon, or Orion - should require similar assets in each case.
Quote from: Jason1701 on 08/18/2013 03:29 amQuote from: Lars_J on 08/18/2013 03:07 amQuote from: Jason1701 on 08/18/2013 02:32 amIs there a simple reason why Orion needs such a larger ship and more elaborate recovery procedures than Dragon?If a crewed Dragon landed on water it would likely have more and larger support ships than a cargo Dragon has - so the comparison is not completely fair.The fleet would likely have an additional boat or boats for the astronauts to transfer to, but the act of recovering the capsule from the water - whether cargo Dragon, crew Dragon, or Orion - should require similar assets in each case.So you're going to lift an 8 ton half billion $ spacecraft with a crane on wheels from the deck of a barge and then place it there? I don't think so.Different recovery procedures for different spacecraft.
So you're going to lift an 8 ton half billion $ spacecraft with a crane on wheels from the deck of a barge and then place it there? I don't think so.Different recovery procedures for different spacecraft.
What in the world does the cost a a spacecraft to do with the cost of its recovery equipment? Do you need a billion $ crane to lift a half $ billion spacecraft? Is there some intrinsic connection between the those numbers that I am missing somehow?
Scott Wilson, manager, Offline Processing and Infrastructure for Development, GSDO Program, referred to testing strategy as a “crawl, walk, run.”
Quote from: Jason1701 on 08/18/2013 02:32 amIs there a simple reason why Orion needs such a larger ship and more elaborate recovery procedures than Dragon?The stated reason to use this on ETF-1 is to preserve the heat shield so NASA can determine its wear on reentry. However all recovered Dragons have done this more than adequately. That is not a sufficient reason. Also, a manned Dragon will only land in the water in off-nominal situations like an abort and even The US Navy can't have this size ship at every potential landing area. Sometimes you have to make do.
Quote from: newpylong on 08/18/2013 05:07 pmSo you're going to lift an 8 ton half billion $ spacecraft with a crane on wheels from the deck of a barge and then place it there? I don't think so.Different recovery procedures for different spacecraft. What in the world does the cost a a spacecraft to do with the cost of its recovery equipment? Do you need a billion $ crane to lift a half $ billion spacecraft? Is there some intrinsic connection between the those numbers that I am missing somehow?
Quote from: Lars_J on 08/18/2013 10:07 pmQuote from: newpylong on 08/18/2013 05:07 pmSo you're going to lift an 8 ton half billion $ spacecraft with a crane on wheels from the deck of a barge and then place it there? I don't think so.Different recovery procedures for different spacecraft. What in the world does the cost a a spacecraft to do with the cost of its recovery equipment? Do you need a billion $ crane to lift a half $ billion spacecraft? Is there some intrinsic connection between the those numbers that I am missing somehow?Yeah, you're missing it because you focused on the dollar amount I listed and not the rest.
Orion CSM dry mass is actually twice as heavy as Dragon but that's besides the point.The point was (my last sentence) they are two different types of spacecraft and providers that have different resources. NASA has decided to leverage the Navy (like it always has) and developed what they believe to be the most effective and safe method for retrieving the spacecraft and crew. Chances are the Orion recovery cost is nowhere near as high as people are speculating. The LPD's aren't exactly in high utilization right now. They are funded anyway to be out there. This isn't exactly like sending the "Fleet" out there like Apollo.SpaceX also has their method for recovery with the Cargo Dragon. You would need to dig into CCiCap to find out how they intend to retrieve crew and the manned version).I would compare the two methods simply out of curiosity, without the intent that the Orion method is extravagant or that the SpaceX method is the correct one simply because it's SpaceX.