Author Topic: ASTP Soyuz Question  (Read 6364 times)

Offline David GREENFIELD

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ASTP Soyuz Question
« on: 11/04/2011 11:38 PM »
Hello.  My understanding is that the Soyuz 7K-TM variant only flew on two missions.  These were Soyuz 19 (ASTP) and 22.  Its solar panels are different to the initial "cranked" Soyuz configuration, and also different to more modern variants.

My question is, does anyone know what the small stubby panels attached at the solar panel/ instrument module junction and extending at about 45 degrees beneath the solar panels were?

Thanks.
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Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #1 on: 11/04/2011 11:46 PM »
Hello.  My understanding is that the Soyuz 7K-TM variant only flew on two missions.  These were Soyuz 19 (ASTP) and 22.  Its solar panels are different to the initial "cranked" Soyuz configuration, and also different to more modern variants.

My question is, does anyone know what the small stubby panels attached at the solar panel/ instrument module junction and extending at about 45 degrees beneath the solar panels were?

Thanks.
This is a wild guess.  Could they have been the covers for the compartment the panels deployed out of?

Offline David GREENFIELD

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #2 on: 11/05/2011 02:20 AM »
That's what I first thought, and I dare say that they are connected in function with array deployment.  However, as you can see in the following picture of Soyuz 19, each array is in three segments. I believe that individual segments were rigid with a hinged joint between them.  As a result, the outer segments are too large for the panels in question to be simple covers.
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Offline Danderman

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #3 on: 11/05/2011 02:44 AM »
Hello.  My understanding is that the Soyuz 7K-TM variant only flew on two missions.  These were Soyuz 19 (ASTP) and 22.  Its solar panels are different to the initial "cranked" Soyuz configuration, and also different to more modern variants.

My question is, does anyone know what the small stubby panels attached at the solar panel/ instrument module junction and extending at about 45 degrees beneath the solar panels were?

Thanks.

FWIW, the ASTP mockup at Energia's museum doesn't seem to have them. However, I am not sure how accurate that mockup is.

The ASTP mockup at the Smithsonian doesn't have them, either.

If you look at the attached PDF, there is something definitely under the panels, though.
« Last Edit: 11/05/2011 03:53 AM by Danderman »

Online Stan Black

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #4 on: 11/05/2011 07:07 AM »
Those 7K-TM/A12 Soyuz solar panels are straight, but the picture above are more like the previous Soyuz.

ASTP Soyuz solar panels also look a lot like the Zond solar panels

Orbital
Name
 
Product
 
Configuration
Serial
Number
 
Kosmos 63811F615A127K-TМ71 
Kosmos 67211F615A127K-TМ72 
Soyuz 1611F615A127K-TМ73 
Soyuz 2211F615A127K-TМ74Docking system replaced with MKF-6 cameras.
Soyuz 1911F615A127K-TМ75 
 11F615A127K-TМ76Prepared for launch as Soyuz 19 backup. Dismantled.
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/231/37.shtml
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=25114.msg759370#msg759370

Online Bob Shaw

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #5 on: 11/05/2011 07:27 AM »
Perhaps the more interesting question is: why change the panels purely for ASTP?

I wonder if it was due to worries about the impact of the Apollo RCS efflux, which the Soviets were reported to be concerned about at the time (as I recall, they were upset at the sight of the Skylab parasol flapping around in the 'wind' from the RCS).

Bob Shaw

Offline saturnapollo

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #6 on: 11/05/2011 09:34 AM »
The solar arrays were needed for the longer duration autonomous flight of ASTP. Soyuz 22 was also an autonomous flight (i.e. not flying to a space station) and carried the arrays.

Keith

Online Bob Shaw

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #7 on: 11/05/2011 09:50 AM »
So, why use a new design rather than spares they already had?

Bob Shaw

Online Stan Black

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #8 on: 11/05/2011 10:06 AM »
So, why use a new design rather than spares they already had?

Bob Shaw

Zond spares?

Offline Danderman

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #9 on: 11/05/2011 10:37 AM »
So, why use a new design rather than spares they already had?

Bob Shaw

At the time, the standard Soyuz ferry did not use solar panels, but rather batteries. So, there were no spares for ASTP on hand.

Offline David GREENFIELD

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #10 on: 11/07/2011 07:46 AM »
Thanks for the replies.  Agree with you Stan that they look like some Zond illustrations I've seen.

The pre-launch Soyux 19 picture in Stan's first attachment shows the solar array stowed and from that I think the "cover" idea is dead.  Looking closer at the HR versions of my attached images at:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo-soyuz/apollo-soyuz/hires/ast-01-053.jpg

and

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo-soyuz/apollo-soyuz/hires/ast-2-096.jpg

has me thinking theat they are either deployment actuators or dampers.  The second link shown that they appear to be rigid framed panels, and the first image shows some kind of "concertina" arrangement at the aft end.  Looking at Stan's pre-launch image I infer that when stowed, the two outer solar panels on each side are "face out" and the inner solar panels are "face in".  Since the mysterious sub-panels attach to the bottom of the inner solar panels they would be on the correct side to assist deployment by "pulling", or maybe pull and damp.  This may be even more likely if the sub panels were stowed in the opposite direction to the inner solar panels (sort of like open scissors).  Any other thoughts?

Danderman I can't open your PDF attachment, any chance you could re-send it please?
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Offline lucspace

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #11 on: 11/07/2011 10:00 AM »
This Zond launch preparation photo shows it used the "cranked" Soyuz configuration...

Offline Blackstar

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #12 on: 11/07/2011 05:37 PM »
Back in the mid-1970s for one year my parents had a National Geographic subscription and I gotta say that as a kid--I must have been seven years old--I was enraptured by those photos when they appeared in the magazine. They did a feature on the mission and it included pictures of this strange buglike craft with its green covering. It was just so completely weird compared to the sharp edges and gleaming metal of Apollo.

Offline pargoo

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #13 on: 11/08/2011 04:12 AM »
     Nice Zond pic.  First real flight-hardware image I've ever seen.  Are there any others?  I won't bother wondering if they're hi-res :/

Offline lucspace

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #14 on: 11/08/2011 08:07 PM »
There's precious little out there still... but this is another good view:

Offline Danderman

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #15 on: 11/11/2011 04:33 AM »


Danderman I can't open your PDF attachment, any chance you could re-send it please?

Offline David GREENFIELD

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Re: ASTP Soyuz Question
« Reply #16 on: 11/15/2011 03:40 PM »
Thanks Danderman.

I guess we just don't know.  Boy the Soviet space program is frustrating.  I met LEONOV last year at autographica, wish I'd thought of this question then.
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