Quote from: yg1968 on 02/05/2010 02:38 pmI know this thread is about the February 2010 CCDev award but in the next round of commercial crew development awards, I imagine that LM could also make a proposal. If LM were to be selected in the next round, it is not impossible that Boeing's capsule or the Dream Chaser may not be selected for funding in the next round. But I can't imagine NASA funding four spacecrafts: Boeing, LM, the Dream Chaser and the Dragon. That seems like a lot of spacecrafts to fund!All four craft are already funded, all NASA is doing is rating them for NASA use and funding this rating task, much like how the military rates/tweaks civilian craft for it's own purposes.
I know this thread is about the February 2010 CCDev award but in the next round of commercial crew development awards, I imagine that LM could also make a proposal. If LM were to be selected in the next round, it is not impossible that Boeing's capsule or the Dream Chaser may not be selected for funding in the next round. But I can't imagine NASA funding four spacecrafts: Boeing, LM, the Dream Chaser and the Dragon. That seems like a lot of spacecrafts to fund!
None of these are or were fully funded, even LM (i.e, Orion). NASA budgets year to year. SpaceX has said that Dragon needs $300M, Dream Chaser needs well more than that from public statements during the past few years, and Boeing-Bigelow certainly haven't funded their concept. In fact, the only one that may be fully funded is one left capsule-type vehicle unmentioned: Blue Origin. We don't know what Bezos committed or intends.
Quote from: HMXHMX on 02/05/2010 03:37 pmNone of these are or were fully funded, even LM (i.e, Orion). NASA budgets year to year. SpaceX has said that Dragon needs $300M, Dream Chaser needs well more than that from public statements during the past few years, and Boeing-Bigelow certainly haven't funded their concept. In fact, the only one that may be fully funded is one left capsule-type vehicle unmentioned: Blue Origin. We don't know what Bezos committed or intends.I've heard that Dream Chaser needs $500M, but I suspect it will be a bit more than that when all is said and done.I had actually forgotten about Blue Origin, since I still think of them as suborbital only. But even for suborbital, they'll need to have a crew compartment, communications, recovery systems, probably thermal radiators... basically everything except the TPS and a life support system (and life support could be licensed from Paragon). They even have their own "pusher" LAS.So the possibilities are: * SpaceX Dragon * Sierra Nevada Dream Chaser * Blue Origin New Shepherd * Boeing capsule * Lockheed capsule (speculated)Launchers are: * Atlas V (probably 402) * Delta IV * Falcon 9
Orbital Taurus II if any of the capsules are under 5,500kg.
Quote from: Downix on 02/05/2010 08:31 pmOrbital Taurus II if any of the capsules are under 5,500kg.I assume that's the current Taurus II version with a solid upper stage. Don't think any crewed capsuled would like that much. The proposed higher energy upper stage upgrade would be much better and offer significantly greater performance.
NASA and its CCDev partners will begin the project upon execution of the CCDev SAAs which is targeted for November 2009. The CCDev milestones shall conclude by September, 2010, to enable close out of accounts by the end of the U. S. Government fiscal year as required by ARRA. The CCDev competition schedule milestones are posted on the following CCDev website: http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/CCDev/. Participants are encouraged to refer regularly to this site for updates to the schedule and other current news and information.
Assuming I understand correctly, CCDev, like COTS, has pre-defined milestones between NASA and the commercial companies, which the companies have to meet in order to get paid. Are these milestones public knowledge? Would we be able to do an FOIA or ARRA request to find out what the milestones are, or (ideally) just email them about it?Actually, right after typing up the first part of this comment, I also noticed this in the CCDev solicitation document:QuoteNASA and its CCDev partners will begin the project upon execution of the CCDev SAAs which is targeted for November 2009. The CCDev milestones shall conclude by September, 2010, to enable close out of accounts by the end of the U. S. Government fiscal year as required by ARRA. The CCDev competition schedule milestones are posted on the following CCDev website: http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/CCDev/. Participants are encouraged to refer regularly to this site for updates to the schedule and other current news and information.Does this mean that all milestones for the initial $50M rewards have to be met by September of this year in order to get the full payment, or am I misreading it? Or is this just referring to milestones for the CCDev program itself?
Quote from: neilh on 02/07/2010 04:37 amAssuming I understand correctly, CCDev, like COTS, has pre-defined milestones between NASA and the commercial companies, which the companies have to meet in order to get paid. Are these milestones public knowledge? Would we be able to do an FOIA or ARRA request to find out what the milestones are, or (ideally) just email them about it?Actually, right after typing up the first part of this comment, I also noticed this in the CCDev solicitation document:QuoteNASA and its CCDev partners will begin the project upon execution of the CCDev SAAs which is targeted for November 2009. The CCDev milestones shall conclude by September, 2010, to enable close out of accounts by the end of the U. S. Government fiscal year as required by ARRA. The CCDev competition schedule milestones are posted on the following CCDev website: http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/CCDev/. Participants are encouraged to refer regularly to this site for updates to the schedule and other current news and information.Does this mean that all milestones for the initial $50M rewards have to be met by September of this year in order to get the full payment, or am I misreading it? Or is this just referring to milestones for the CCDev program itself?All the money must be spent prior to 1 October 2010. So yes, the milestones must be completed prior to that date.
Any idea on if/when the milestones have to be made public?
All the money must be spent prior to 1 October 2010. So yes, the milestones must be completed prior to that date.
Quote from: neilh on 02/07/2010 06:31 pmAny idea on if/when the milestones have to be made public?They do not HAVE to be made public. The companies defer to NASA to anounce the milestones because they are the ones paying. So basicly a COTS company makes a milestone, if NASA doesn't annouce the milestone they really can't.We all know if SpaceX could they would have a Wired magazine article for every milestone they hit.
Quote from: SpacexULA on 02/07/2010 07:04 pmQuote from: neilh on 02/07/2010 06:31 pmAny idea on if/when the milestones have to be made public?They do not HAVE to be made public. The companies defer to NASA to anounce the milestones because they are the ones paying. So basicly a COTS company makes a milestone, if NASA doesn't annouce the milestone they really can't.We all know if SpaceX could they would have a Wired magazine article for every milestone they hit.Wouldn't NASA have to release it under FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) or ARRA (the stimulus bill used to fund it, which has additional transparency requirements)?
This is skin-in-the-game, I think.Could they spend the CCDEV funds by 10/2010, then add their own funds and deliver later?Martin
Quote from: HMXHMX link=topic=20268.msg538586#msg53858All the money must be spent prior to 1 October 2010. So yes, the milestones must be completed prior to that date.[/quoteThis is skin-in-the-game, I think.Could they spend the CCDEV funds by 10/2010, then add their own funds and deliver later?Martin
Thanks for your question. I don’t have an exact date of when they will be released. We will do so as soon as possible.