Author Topic: Delta Mariner strikes bridge  (Read 34723 times)

Online Blackstar

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #20 on: 01/27/2012 10:17 pm »
Ugh.

Let's hope nobody was on that span.

Offline TrueGrit

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #21 on: 01/27/2012 10:21 pm »
ULA gets to buy Kentucky a new bridge?

Wouldn't think so...  Delta Mariner is not owned or operated by ULA, but Foss Marine.  ULA is the primary client of the ship, but Foss is who is responsible.  To say differently is like you being responsible if a FedEx truck carrying your stuff had a highway accident.

Offline HIPAR

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #22 on: 01/27/2012 11:29 pm »
There are lights on bridges that span navigable waterways. They show the correct channel to clear the charted clearance.



Where was the captain and who was at the helm?  Judging from the pictures, the ship was off course and improperly approached the bridge.  It didn't clear the section it demolished.

https://p.twimg.com/AkLjX4eCMAEDthf.jpg:large

It should have passed under the center span.  Certainly there is enough clearance seeing how the ship frequently passes under that bridge. 

---  CHAS

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #23 on: 01/27/2012 11:46 pm »
I'd me more worried about damage to the bridge. Odds are, it was in deteriorating condition before the collision.

It was old, at least. Probably just as importantly, with a truss, severing only a couple of the members can eliminate the structural stability of a design, letting the rest simply flop around their joints. Truss members are generally substantial pieces of steel, but so are the superstructures of ocean-going ships, and side loading is a secondary design consideration for a bridge compared to gravity loads.

Wow, the structure of the bridge span is wrapped around the front of the ship.

ULA gets to buy Kentucky a new bridge?

Mariner still needs to be extracted from this tangled mess, it appears.  Hopefully that can happen without the ship sinking...

I'm guessing this is going to impact launch schedules.  There will be a delay in not only this shipment, but in subsequent deliveries if the ship has to be repaired.

 - Ed Kyle

Most likely, Foss's insurance company pays for a temporary span or for the resources to speed up construction of the already-planned replacement.

Delta Mariner doesn't seem to have any hull damage. I'm sure the ship will be fine.

The big question is how much repair will be needed before she can finish the trip. There is bound to be damage to the ship's bridge.

Judging from pictures in the article: if a bridge was that corroded on this side of the big pond, it would have been closed to regular traffic ages ago. Those steel-parts looks substantially corroded.

You can't determine how bad corrosion is from a cursory inspection. What matters most is how deep the corrosion goes compared to the design margin of the member, which can be measured by probing or ultrasonic inspection.

Offline Halidon

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #24 on: 01/28/2012 06:00 am »
I'd me more worried about damage to the bridge. Odds are, it was in deteriorating condition before the collision.
Judging from pictures in the article: if a bridge was that corroded on this side of the big pond, it would have been closed to regular traffic ages ago. Those steel-parts looks substantially corroded.
You know us Capitalists. Can't repair anything until it has killed someone or cost in emergency funds more than the original maintenance cost several times over.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #25 on: 01/28/2012 06:13 am »
I'd me more worried about damage to the bridge. Odds are, it was in deteriorating condition before the collision.
Judging from pictures in the article: if a bridge was that corroded on this side of the big pond, it would have been closed to regular traffic ages ago. Those steel-parts looks substantially corroded.
Yup. For a few decades now, America has severely underfunded our infrastructure (in part for ideological reasons) while China has put huge investments into its infrastructure. A few years ago, a big bridge in Minneapolis fell down after being well past its original lifespan and far more than its originally intended carrying capacity. It happened during rush hour on a major freeway and over a hundred people plunged down toward the river below. It was a miracle only 13 people died (including my friend's cousin). We NEED a large program to invest in infrastructure, both new and good repairs of existing. The interest the gov't has to pay on infrastructure right now is down around the rate of inflation or lower (i.e. basically people are paying the gov't to take their money) and construction people are out of work... There literally is no better time to invest in infrastructure.

The new bridge, though, is beautiful and strong.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline GClark

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #26 on: 01/28/2012 10:41 am »
The main reason infrastructure is so bad in the USA (For bridges, at least)?  The Federal Bureau of Bridges.  It takes years to get a project approved through them.  They are the main reason there weren't too many shovel-ready jobs - the paperwork and permits weren't in place and they couldn't get them done before the porkulus expired.

This is on top of the inherently political nature of road and bridge projects generally.

On topic, I recall reading on another site that the navigation lights on the bridge were under repair.  Contributing cause?

Offline baldusi

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #27 on: 01/28/2012 08:45 pm »
Actually, all the surplus that the Clinton administrator left, was specifically left to rebuild the US national infrastructure. Generally you have a 50 year cycle on infrastructure, and after the New Deal and the WWII rebuild there was none. That's also why you had so many problem on electricity distribution during the 2000. This was known and was discussed during the 90s. Macroeconomist use this trends to estimate a country's growth and how construction sector will do. I've also have the papers of the Fed that stated on 2003 that the mortgage system was in state of collapse that would generate a 3 trillion hole. But I digress.
The last articles that I read stated that there was an ongoing investigation on the state of the lightning, but they understood that it was ok. Which usually has a degree of uncertainty of what exactly is needed to actually pass the inspection vs the actual sailing situation.
Might have passed and inspection but have passed a fog bank (hypothetically, since I didn't read any fog mention). It can also happen that the captain went to the bathroom and the pilot was inexperience. It could well go into the criminal negligence level, like in the Costa Concordia. One of the issues with relentless cost cuts and the tanking economy is that less that optimal people is put on posts that might bring dire consequences.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #28 on: 01/28/2012 09:24 pm »
Or the captain just made a mistake.
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Offline JWag

Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #29 on: 01/28/2012 10:15 pm »
Or navigation was accidentally impaired by powerful asteroid-mapping radar in the area.

(that was a joke) ;)

Offline Andy USA

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #30 on: 01/29/2012 01:55 am »
Let's try and keep this thread on the accident. Thread trimmed.

Offline alexw

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #31 on: 01/29/2012 02:03 am »
The main reason infrastructure is so bad in the USA (For bridges, at least)?  The Federal Bureau of Bridges.
       Does that even exist? Googling, I find state Bureaus of Bridges, or the Alabama Bridge Bureau.   
       -Alex

Offline sbt

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #32 on: 01/29/2012 11:41 am »
Ok, a heads-up for people who might want to read the eventual accident report.

Firstly with respect to USCG reports, they can be hard to find.

If the accident is classified as a 'Marine Casualty' then it will end up somewhere here:

https://homeport.uscg.mil/mycg/portal/ep/programView.do?channelId=-18374&programId=21431&programPage=%2Fep%2Fprogram%2Feditorial.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0888829526.1327839399@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdadffkhdgliicfjgcfgfdffhdghm.0

TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/6wqhg65

Note that the report may not appear at the top level - note the entries 'Other Narrative Type - Marine Casualty Reports' and 'Marine Board of Investigation Marine Casualty Reports' which hide multiple reports.

If the accident is classified as an 'Incident', which it might be as no vessel was seriously damaged, then it will end up here:

http://cgmix.uscg.mil/IIR/Default.aspx

Note that the format is less than clear and that you have to use 'Search' to find a report or reports rather than simply keeping being aware of, and learning from, reports as they come in.

If the USCG or another government body may be implicated as part of the accident chain then the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will make a report. Their reports are here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/reports.html

Note that filtering on 'Maritime' may exclude the report if the NTSB classify the accident as a 'Highway' one.

This, BTW, is from someone in the UK who once got a USCG report amended - I spotted that an annonmised report still contained names that shouldn't have been there.
« Last Edit: 01/29/2012 11:41 am by sbt »
I am not interested in your political point scoring, Ad Hominem attacks, personal obsessions and vendettas. - No matter how cute and clever you may think your comments are.

Online Blackstar

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #33 on: 01/29/2012 04:40 pm »
The main reason infrastructure is so bad in the USA (For bridges, at least)?  The Federal Bureau of Bridges.
       Does that even exist? Googling, I find state Bureaus of Bridges, or the Alabama Bridge Bureau.   

I'd be cautious about jumping on the "US infrastructure is horrible and crumbling" bandwagon. There was a good article in the Washington Post a couple of months back pointing out problems with this claim. Some of the most-cited data is old, and repairs have since been made. And in many cases the comparisons to other countries are bad. For instance, I think that there's a claim that Jamaica ranks ahead of the U.S. in airport infrastructure, ignoring the point that the U.S. has something like 400 airports the size of Jamaica's main one.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #34 on: 01/29/2012 05:52 pm »
I'd be cautious about jumping on the "US infrastructure is horrible and crumbling" bandwagon. ...
Let's also remember that the bridge's age and structural condition likely did not play any role whatsoever in this accident.  Not to mention the fact that the bridge was already in the process of being replaced prior to the accident!  Here's a graphic of the planned new bridge.  http://www.explorekentuckylake.com/projects/bridgedesign.htm

The following report says that a portion of the remaining bridge may be in danger of collapse, BTW. 
http://www.cadizrecord.com/view/full_story/17325865/article-BREAKING-NEWS--East-portion-of-Kentucky-Lake-bridge--possibly-unstable-?instance=home_breaking_news

It also includes this interesting report: 
"... electrical work on bridge lights was scheduled to be performed on the bridge Friday. However, Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Secretary Mike Hancock said Friday morning that even if all the lights weren't working properly, that would not be enough to explain the accident."

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 01/29/2012 06:01 pm by edkyle99 »

Online Blackstar

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #35 on: 01/29/2012 10:14 pm »
Let's also remember that the bridge's age and structural condition likely did not play any role whatsoever in this accident. 

Well, that could prove to not be the case. A new bridge, or a well-maintained one, would withstand an impact better than one in poor condition. And a new one, or well-maintained one, is likely to have better navigational aids than an old, out of repair bridge.

I'm not saying I know anything at all about this incident, but it's easier to knock down a rusty door than a new one, and maybe so much of this bridge came down because it was old.
« Last Edit: 01/29/2012 10:15 pm by Blackstar »

Online Lee Jay

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #36 on: 01/29/2012 10:21 pm »
Well, that could prove to not be the case. A new bridge, or a well-maintained one, would withstand an impact better than one in poor condition.

Hitting a rock-solid bridge instead of one that caves is more likely to damage or destroy your ship.  In this case, the ship may have been worth more than the bridge, since no one was hurt.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #37 on: 01/29/2012 10:23 pm »
Robert Parker, 51, of Cadiz, Ky., said ... "All of a sudden I see the road’s gone and I hit the brakes".

Gotta good story for the grandkids, tho.

Statement:

The Delta Mariner, owned and operated by Foss Marine, made contact with the Eggner Ferry Bridge

Nuthin' like spin. In other news, Fobos-Grunt uhhhh... made contact with the atmosphere...
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline deltaV

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #38 on: 01/29/2012 11:39 pm »
The NTSB is apparently (http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/regional.html) investigating the incident as a low-priority item handled by the regional office:
Quote
1/27 - At 8:10 PM CST, Aurora, KY. M/V DELTA MARINER allided with Eggner's Ferry Bridge causing center portion to collapse.

It'll probably be months until the NTSB releases anything. I dunno if regional investigations produce the thorough reports that the national ones do.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Delta Mariner strikes bridge
« Reply #39 on: 01/30/2012 02:26 am »
Let's also remember that the bridge's age and structural condition likely did not play any role whatsoever in this accident. 

Well, that could prove to not be the case. A new bridge, or a well-maintained one, would withstand an impact better than one in poor condition. And a new one, or well-maintained one, is likely to have better navigational aids than an old, out of repair bridge.

I'm not saying I know anything at all about this incident, but it's easier to knock down a rusty door than a new one, and maybe so much of this bridge came down because it was old.

I'd be willing to bet that if this bridge had been struck in this manner by a similar ship when the bridge was brand shiny new, it still would have ended up wrapped around the ship's bow.

 - Ed Kyle

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