Quote from: Mulletron on 11/08/2014 08:52 pmhttp://ptp.oxfordjournals.org/content/119/3/351.full.pdf+htmlPeculiar indeed.As I have pointed out previously, this requires anisotropy, and the author makes it clear (even in the title). "Momentum Transfer between Quantum Vacuum and Anisotropic Medium"The author further points out:Quote In most conventional electromagnetic media, the quantum vacuum inside possesses a universal symmetry and hence has no influence on the motion of the media. However, for a Faraday chiral material,the macroscopically observable mechanical effect, due to the breaking of the universal symmetry of the quantum vacuum may appear What the author is discussing does not apply to the EM drives researched by NASA Eagleworks because the materials used are isotropic. (Copper in all cases and in some cases Teflon or Polyethylene dielectrics -injection molded-)
http://ptp.oxfordjournals.org/content/119/3/351.full.pdf+htmlPeculiar indeed.
In most conventional electromagnetic media, the quantum vacuum inside possesses a universal symmetry and hence has no influence on the motion of the media. However, for a Faraday chiral material,the macroscopically observable mechanical effect, due to the breaking of the universal symmetry of the quantum vacuum may appear
Quote from: Rodal on 11/08/2014 09:46 pmQuote from: Mulletron on 11/08/2014 08:52 pmhttp://ptp.oxfordjournals.org/content/119/3/351.full.pdf+htmlPeculiar indeed.As I have pointed out previously, this requires anisotropy, and the author makes it clear (even in the title). "Momentum Transfer between Quantum Vacuum and Anisotropic Medium"The author further points out:Quote In most conventional electromagnetic media, the quantum vacuum inside possesses a universal symmetry and hence has no influence on the motion of the media. However, for a Faraday chiral material,the macroscopically observable mechanical effect, due to the breaking of the universal symmetry of the quantum vacuum may appear What the author is discussing does not apply to the EM drives researched by NASA Eagleworks because the materials used are isotropic. (Copper in all cases and in some cases Teflon or Polyethylene dielectrics -injection molded-)If you looook haaarder, it says anisotropic quantum-vacuum fluctuation field to a Faraday (magnetic) chiral material.The author is speaking to the anisotropic electromagnetic properties of the material. Not the isotropy of the solidified melt mix. In fact, not linked to here because it is an afterthought, but I've seen references to this kind of effect in disordered materials in the literature. "Here, we present an effect of the quantum vacuum contributionto the macroscopic mechanical properties of an anisotropic material (Faradaychiral material), in which an anisotropic electromagnetic environment could be builtup, and hence the universal symmetry of the quantum vacuum could be broken."Injection molding does nothing to ensure polymer ordering, aka alignment. An injection molding machine doesn't do any poling.This paper isn't an exact match to the conditions within emdrive, but demonstrates the diversity of this interaction which is cropping up in other places across the literature.....eg. Robustness.
The EM Drives tested by NASA Eagleworks do not satisfy the anisotropy (mechanical and electromagnetic) conditions required by the author. What the author discusses is not applicable to explain the measurements at NASA Eagleworks.
@ThinkerX The energy of light is proportional to the frequency. Higher frequency, higher energy photons. If some of that energy is given up to something else, the frequency is lower.
All of your lazers and power plants are very massive. The device will hardly move. However, place your lazers on a handy airless planet, and aim them at a solar sail, and you can get the thing to move.
QuoteThe EM Drives tested by NASA Eagleworks do not satisfy the anisotropy (mechanical and electromagnetic) conditions required by the author. What the author discusses is not applicable to explain the measurements at NASA Eagleworks.@Mulletron - That does not mean necessarily that you're on the wrong track, just that our current understanding is not sufficiently complete to attribute the measured force. (I know, that sounds like gobbally-gook)
Quote from: aero on 11/08/2014 11:29 pmQuoteThe EM Drives tested by NASA Eagleworks do not satisfy the anisotropy (mechanical and electromagnetic) conditions required by the author. What the author discusses is not applicable to explain the measurements at NASA Eagleworks.@Mulletron - That does not mean necessarily that you're on the wrong track, just that our current understanding is not sufficiently complete to attribute the measured force. (I know, that sounds like gobbally-gook) Well I accepted the challenge. It took me 30 minutes to find that both extruded PE and PTFE solidify to a semicrystalline structure. Therefore they are anisotropic. If they were amorphous, they'd be isotropic.So I've established that the materials used in the the Brady et al test campaigns are both chiral polymers and they are both anisotropic due to their semicrystalline structure.I'll save you the trip to the Oracle this time.See for yourself. Just google crystallization of polymers.Also google chiral polymer tacticity. A neat resource I found:https://www.nde-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/Materials/Structure/anisotropy.htmAlso two exciting words: lamella twisting, here's helical chirality in PEhttp://www.esrf.eu/UsersAndScience/Publications/Highlights/2011/scm/scm4Chirality=proven truemechanical anisotropy=proven trueelectromagnetic or magnetic anisotropy=not proven true, this is where spontaneous pt symmetry breaking comes in. Been working on this one for a while.
Extrusion anisotropy takes place at the exterior surface of the extruded rod in regions of very high shear near the extruder walls.
QuoteExtrusion anisotropy takes place at the exterior surface of the extruded rod in regions of very high shear near the extruder walls.Good enough for me! I could care less about the interior of the bulk. This supports your previous observations about the limited utility of a monolithic dielectric slug vs rolled thin films. Thanks for your valuable contribution from your experience. As they say, knowledge is cheap, but experience is priceless.
No. The paper says it was 2, 6.25" x 1.06" PE discs. That pink area looks to me like a copper cylinder structure to hold those disks in place.Do you see why my CAD had 6.25" for the minimum diameter possible for the small end now?
Quote from: Mulletron on 11/09/2014 01:24 pmNo. The paper says it was 2, 6.25" x 1.06" PE discs. Aero pointed this out I think. That pink area looks to me like a copper cylinder structure to hold those disks in place.Do you see why my CAD had 6.25" for the minimum diameter possible for the small end now?OK, thanks for reminding me. So is your interpretation that there are two disks 6.25" OD. Is 1.06" the thickness of the disks? or is it the Inner Diameter of a hole in an annular disk and is the thickness unspecified? (I would presume the former as it would be unusual not to specify the thickness).These dimensions make much more sense.QUESTION: If you were to place a dielectric in the EM Drives for your QV purposes, where would you preferentially place it: at the small diameter or the big diameter end and why?
No. The paper says it was 2, 6.25" x 1.06" PE discs. Aero pointed this out I think. That pink area looks to me like a copper cylinder structure to hold those disks in place.Do you see why my CAD had 6.25" for the minimum diameter possible for the small end now?
Reply #3038 on: November 08, 2014, 04:33:35 PM...oops, I see 93143 answered faster. Glad to hear someone of the million people...
Reply #3013 on: November 07, 2014, 03:40:29 PMYour pragmatic inertial frame would be the galaxy, wouldn't it?
What the author is discussing does not apply to the EM drives researched by NASA Eagleworks because the materials used are isotropic. (Copper in all cases and in some cases Teflon or Polyethylene dielectrics -injection molded-)
An anisotropic electromagnetic environment that can be created inside a Faraday chiral material may cause breaking of the universal symmetry of vacuum mode structure and hence lead to a nonzero electromagnetic momentum density of the quantum vacuum. A novel quantum vacuum effect (i.e., transfer of linear momentum from an anisotropic quantum-vacuum fluctuation field to a Faraday chiral material) is predicted. This is a macroscopic quantum vacuum mechanical effect that may provide us with new insight into the electromagnetic structures of quantum vacuum fluctuation fields inside anisotropic artificial materials.
As the quantum vacuum in an anisotropic electromagnetic environment has a nonzero momentum, the linear momentum transfer between the quantum vacuum and a gyrotropic chiral material can take place.
this vacuum effect may provide us with new insight into electromagnetic structures of quantum vacuum fluctuation inside artificial anisotropic materials, and we may be able to utilize this mechanical effect to develop sensitive, accurate measurement technologies. In addition, such quantum vacuum effects may lead to new topics regarding fundamental physical problems, such as field quantization, inertia of photon’s spin (in spin-rotation coupling) and some relevant quantum optical effects inside composite materials.
So I've established that the materials used in the the Brady et al test campaigns are both chiral polymers and they are both anisotropic due to their semicrystalline structure.
Quote from: Mulletron on 11/09/2014 07:25 amSo I've established that the materials used in the the Brady et al test campaigns are both chiral polymers and they are both anisotropic due to their semicrystalline structure.Woah, there, kemosabe! That sounds like an assertion? Like where, 'zackly does the Brady bunch inform us that they depend on these chiral polymers?